The Old World Died, and the New Ones Struggles to Be Born, Now is the Time of Horsewords · 9:53pm Jul 24th, 2020
Realizing that people you liked, in one way or another, hold some vile opinions and support vile things is difficult. The person goes on but your understanding of them has shattered. The Them that you have constructed from clues, pieced together over time from a dozen small interactions, refined by the things they have made and liked.
Having this shattered over and over again can be disorienting. The experience is like driving in the dark, finding yourself on new streets, or on old streets you no longer recognize--was that bank always there? Was there always a four way stop here? And it can be hard to re-orient yourself. I remember one night, around 3:30, driving aimlessly because of insomnia, and finding myself in new territory. It wasn’t that long ago--the streets were empty, the whole place felt like the plague had already come through in earnest (and it had), two street lights side by side flickered on and off erratically of their own accord. I felt very, very alone. Driving at night when I cannot sleep usually helps me feel comfortable in the warm cocoon of my car, thrumming down the empty roads. And it just didn’t that night. It didn’t feel comfortable, or soothing, or even neutral. It felt alien and grotesque. It felt like the city I had lived near or in basically my whole life had dropped its mask and shown me a face I could never recognize or understand.
Hegel’s got this idea about how we know ourselves. We know ourselves through the interaction through other minds, right? Recognition is the core of self-knowledge, we see the Other and are in turn seen and the dialectic of Me and Them creates me itself. The spirit is a relation that relates to itself. When the Other you have looked towards expecting to see Recognition/yourself in is a mask, when that mask is removed, it doesn’t just change what you see. It challenges the very reality of yourself.
The worst part of the last few weeks of watching the fandom I’ve been in for almost a decade tear itself to shreds is realizing that I had fundamentally misunderstood people I liked or respected or had just heard about in passing. I had for years seen myself in a crowd just quietly, embarassedly enduring living in the same spaces as unabashed fascist larpers. I have discovered that a lot of people were not quietly embarrassed and trying not to give the losers attention. The reality was that they liked the losers. The losers weren’t just weird /pol/ migrants LARPing at each other, they were a whole patchwork of “reasonable” folks who loved to see themselves as arbiters, of people who liked edgy memes and edgier company, people who seemed chill and then stepped in to point out that that one guy posting 1488 memes in their discord? He’s cool, you know, its just a joke.
I’m glad that they never foresaw having to squabble over FiMFic. And in case you doubt whether they foresaw this, consider that the most visible and relevant champion has been mostly making a fool of herself. Those who read my last blog got to witness first hand how several people waded in and, among other things, one of them found himself disinvited from future horse cons. Jokers unmasking themselves and winning nothing has been the story of the weeks.
It’s not really enough though. A few years ago I would have thought it was. But in 2020, the old platitudes don’t work anymore. Waiting on the world to change isn’t working. Quietly embarrassed isn’t working anymore.
I know how we ended up like this. I’ve talked about it I don’t know how long for days on end. We all know, cause we all watched it happen. The site is full of Wehraboos and low-effort racist shitposters, we all know this. It’s not like, revolutionary to say so. I don’t really need to talk about it? But I want to.
I saw someone--I forget who, which is a shame, tho I think I’m not supposed to link people here anyhow--complain that the infighting was tearing the fandom apart and I can’t help but think that they were absolutely right. I think it might be good. The egg keeps the chick alive but if the egg is never broken the chick dies. The old attitudes of live and let live died when Jetfire got his ass beat playing crusader. Or maybe it died when the Applejack with Slave Zebras incident happened. Either way, the old world is dead, and the new one is struggling to be born, and now as Zizek misquotes Gramsci, we are in the time of monsters.
It’s hard to take seriously the idea that pushing back against the cancerous problem of the fascist in our fandom spaces is a net bad thing. It’s hard to take serious the premise that making a fuss about it is somehow “just as bad” or that its “just giving them attention” specifically because the argument is based on a flawed remembrance of shared history. What do you think we did before? I want to ask. We ignored them as much as we could and they had enough attention to become the mainstream. If laying around like a miserable dog in a gutter is the moral high road then perhaps we all ought to go whistling down towards hell, as at least one can have something to work towards in the dark. Civility does not and has never worked. Evil doesn’t just roll over when you ask it politely. It never has, and it never will. Chuds don’t get ashamed of themselves because you smile and play along and let them do whatever and gently protest only in the most milquetoast ways imaginable. They leave when they can’t have fun, and when they can’t circlejerk where it matters, when you annoy them by never going away. They leave when you make them leave, and not before.
The idea that one Streisand Effects the genuine evil just sort of floating around in pony fandom by trying to push it out is at best, kind of laughable. It misunderstands the nature of that evil and it misunderstands what the Streisand Effect even is. It reframes “maybe being an open anti-semite shouldn’t be socially acceptable here” as some sort of insidious conspiracy to “censor” something. I can’t take this seriously. I don’t think anyone with their head not firmly up their ass (or who has a very specific reason for arguing this, which I’ll return to) can honestly argue this. If you are, please, please consider what exactly censorship is, and what kind of effect it has on actual discourse to let naked hate speech just happen.
Because you know what? Free speech? It’s good. I’m going to do something a bit rash here. I’m going to take a lot of people at their words.
I’m going to for the sake of argument assume that you, my interlocutor, genuinely value free speech. It is for you a fundamental right, one upon which all freedom and safety is built. I am going to assume for the sake of sanity that you are aware that Freedom of Speech as a concept has built in limits--one cannot, for instance, yell “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre, nor threaten to murder someone (this does include the adorable Pinochet helicopter joke, by the by). Let us often give, generously, the understanding that Freedom of Speech is the freedom of the individual to voice their objections and opinions without the interference of their government (ie you can’t be sued for saying that the government is doing something bad or for saying that the president looks like a sentient bed sore) and within reason it protects your speech from undue control by other bodies wherein their interference would functionally deny you protected speech (ie Walmart cannot hire Pinkertons to beat you up for holding a sign saying that Walmart is bad on a place that’s not their property).
If we believe in Freedom of Speech, and if we truly value it as the cornerstone of a free and open society, then we also must acknowledge that discourse is not just a vacuous echo chamber. Your ideas can, will, and perhaps should be challenged. Were I to insist that Dragon Age 2 was fine actually, I would rightly be opposed by most sane minded people and in the ensuing discourse there would be conflict as well as a growing communal understanding of what constitutes both “an enjoyable game” and “Dragon Age 2”. Discourse is multisided. It must be. This does not mean that one is being “censored” or “silenced”. No one has silenced or censored me for having a terrible opinion about Dragon Age 2. The opposite has in fact occurred! I have roused the body politic to great furor. I have not been silenced at all--I have given my say and have categorically been heard.
Speech is not safe and to assume that its foundational unsafeness is the same as censorship is just taking a fat steaming dump on Milton’s Areopagitica. In fact, silencing the criticism of my objectively terrible Dragon Age take would be censorship favoring and privileging a bad opinion solely for the sake of the holders’ fragility, as if the speaker's ego is worth shutting down the entirety of the world for.
Art, as much as the speech act, is discourse. It is a different kind of discourse in the same way that shitposting is a different kind of discourse and sex is a differnet kind of discourse and signage is a different kind of discourse. It is different--it requires different things and works on different angles--but it is still discourse and subject to the same basic generalities of discourse. It cannot, will not, and should not exist in a bubble. It cannot, will not, and should not be considered free from being called stupid as hell or worse as much as it cant/won’t/shouldn’t be kept from praise.
If someone draws Applejack owning slaves and everyone hates it, that isn’t censorship. It objectively is not. To call a backlash censorship here is just factually untrue. To ask it to be removed is not censorship. The thing has been said. The art has been shown. It is not being removed from existence and already exists in history. If I put forth the radical idea that perhaps, just perhaps, it might be in poor taste to give shining pedestal to an out of character depiction of a beloved cartoon character playing the part of a slave owner over obvious african analogues, I have not at all censored a thing. The artist has entered the squared circle, and in the arena of discourse they cannot suddenly demand the privilege of being immune to fair response. They cannot outsource their cowardice to a hysterical mob, not without first surrendering their claim to either authorial intent or to the right to even enter the gymnos of discourse itself.
If you truly believe in free speech, it is not the backlash that should worry you. I speak plainly here. It is the presence of hate speech among you, mainstream and frankly acceptable in most of the community, that should bother you.
Do you genuinely believe that free speech of any sort, political or artistic, can exist in a space overrun with Wehrmacht LARPers? Do you? I don’t really believe most of the people talking about free speech actually believe that, but I am willing to extend this to the largely hypothetical person who does and will ask again--do you believe that the presence of prevalence of targeted hate speech really has no effect on the ability of others to speak? If a space is full of people who are racist, someone of the racial minority they despise has had their own speech curtailed. They actually are being censored, historically. In a room full of anti-semites and people who are willing to abide the presence of anti-semites, no Jewish voice can be heard or weighed fairly. A genuine antipathy for censorship cannot abide conditions which would limit entire categories of humanity from the right to speak, and so a genuine antipathy for censorship must embrace the radical idea that perhaps, just maybe, bad actors whose entire ethos involves the perpetual silencing of those they seek to dominate should not be platformed or amplified. If you value the free exchange of ideas, if you believe that we progress through the cooperative work of discourse and innovation, if you actually care about people’s right to give voice to the truth that they have found, then I am begging you to be rational and critical. I am begging you, as person to another, to give a damn about other people. If the base logic of mutual aid doesn’t move you, if compassion won’t move you, if your own moral system can’t move you, then perhaps sheer self-preservation will.
Because the people you white knight for in a misguided attempt to preserve a perceived freedom have no interest in preserving that freedom. Attempting to safeguard free speech is good! But if the only people that you come out for all happen to use theirs to call people like me trannies, than you must know that you’ve made your bed. You must know, somewhere in there, that not only have you surrendered any right to not be thought of as one of them, but that you’ve surrendered any right you had to plead your own case when the hounds circle back for you, once all the “degenerates” have been run off. The totalizing effect of our culture’s obsession with the supposed moral rightness of the center between any two convictions is poisoning you to the grim reality that these spaces which suddenly seem so fragmented and torn asunder by people’s complaining and fighting were never going to stay comfortable for you--because the people jacking it to Aryanne today? They were always coming for you too. And I think you know that. They’d be in your DMs eventually.
There’s this idea that pointing this out is alarmism, and I reject that. Pointing out the obvious fact that racism tends to be co-morbid with a host of other hatreds is not alarmist, nor is also pointing out the obvious fact that the kind of person who thinks creating art celebrating slavery or fascist ideaology is a good and acceptable course of action is also the kind of person who historically tends to force out anyone who isn’t as dyed in the wool as they are. It is not alarmist to come along after the rout has begun, to suggest that perhaps it was a bad idea to pitch camp in the range of the enemy’s guns. If anything, I am late to the party. I have come after the disaster to ask you to take it seriously, and to consider yourselves and the world around you.
I don’t think you’re a nazi for being hesitant. I don’t. But I cannot help but feel disappointed in a lot of people. I cannot but lose trust and break faith with those I’ve seen filling the trenches of those to whom I am subhuman. I know that there are people across that field who think they are doing the ugly but necessary work, who believe that there is a moral obligation to let even the cranks and the racist uncles get their time to say something, and in distant circumstance some part of me might have respected that conviction, if not its ends. But that’s not a luxury I have, distance. I understand that it is one that you have, and to you it does not seem a luxury. But I assure you that it is.
It may not be fair to lump white knights in with genuine bigots, but when someone tells you over and over exactly what they are, when they only ever seem interested in defending the people calling you slurs and sending you gross messages… At some point, it doesn’t matter what specific doctrine they hold. No one cares. It is immaterial. What matters is what you do. And right now, what you are doing places you firmly in the dark, beating heart of a terrible congregation, and their hymns are war hymns. I hope you make it out with your heart and mind intact. But no one can guarantee that. You chose to enter the cathedral and sing its songs as loudly as any true believer. You sat in the pew and you bled into the offering plate. The doors are not yet locked, and you can leave. But no one is coming to pull you out. We can’t afford to.
I’m afraid, for both our sakes, that you’re all on your own. And my faith in these days is diminished. Look around, at your fellows, and ask yourself if you would have so fervently supported this person in fairer days. Ask yourself, do I want to be counted in this number when the Man comes around? If the Christians are right, and we give an account of ourselves in searing glory, shall I admit that I thought it rather proper and even fun to ride wingman to people I knew were scrawling swastikas on anything they could? Maybe that’s fine. Maybe that’s fine.
But I’d be hoping that the Christians are wrong about that last bit, if I were in your shoes.
Reminds me of the only thing I am thankful for in regards to Trump. Him taking office allowed me to find out rather definitively which members of my extended family I should avoid dealing with from that point forward.
I could have lived a long and happy life without hearing the term "Wehraboo." Especially if it were in a timeline where there would be no reason to coin it.
Magnificently and eloquently put. I just wish we were in circumstances where you didn't need to write this.
The silliness that went on with Fim I ignored it for a bit. i didn't even know who the pony was. I didn't even care just watched it and went.. *Shakes my head going back to write* Yeah thats just how I was and felt yeesh.
I’m still cackling over “sentient bed sore” okay
5320804
I must not pay enough attention to the right circles. I have no idea what that terms means, nor can I glean it from context. And I'm not really sure if that's good or bad.
Also, I wouldn't pay much mind to Christian rhetoric. To be Christian is to not know how sex works. If they'd ever READ Genesis...I won't rant here about why I left the church unless people actually want me to.
Wonderful essay, thank you!
Great essay.
All changed, changed utterly;
A terrible beauty is born.- Yeats
It has been a bleak and uncertain few months Fimfiction and the fandom in general. Maybe you're right that this infighting it is a necessary process towards making the fandom a better and more tolerant place.
I hope that's the case, for the alternative is too bleak for me to consider.
Perhaps I am a fool to believe there was a better time before, because perhaps in doing so I am nostalgic for something that only hid the unpleasant truth.
Well said nonetheless.
Do you know who doesn't get to speak, at all, even a little bit? Dead people. Do you know who doesn't get to speak in any meaningful way? People in camps. People in prison and in jail. Do you know what many of the very loudest screamers about free speech think should happen to trans people like myself? To protestors for black lives and rights? To the "the queens and the coons and the reds and the jews"?
And yet somehow *I* am the one opposing free speech when I say "I don't want you here on this specific website." Somehow *they* are free speech's most fervent champions.
Yeah, right, pull the other one.
Some people do believe in free speech as a principle, of course. Some of those are deluded, young, naive, or sheltered enough to be idealists about that, and just don't get it. At this point, those ones may in fact be hiding under a rock. Most of the loudest screamers about free speech do not, however, believe a word of it. Speech for me, but not for thee, is their actual ideology. They just don't say that part out loud.
I made a blog post where I pussy footed around the matter super hard, which made the message muddled, but to sum it up here:
Not in America, but in a worldwide sense, I feel the internet should be temporarily restricted and monitored. Simply due to how revolutionary it is to recent times, the last 140 years roughly, and how much it effects human mentality and society.
Ahhhh, I forget where I heard it, but I was told once that the freedom part in the pledge of allegiance referred to the feeling of being able to speak freely about injustice. That feeling of a breath of fresh air when being able to say what's on your mind bothering you.
I try to say the truth in love, but I've lately seen how that's backfired a lot. Troubling times eh~?
Fantastic writeup.
One thing that's always bugging me about this sort of fandom rot is the question... Was it something that happened over time, and only now did it reach critical mass, or was it always there from the fandom's start?
Good essay, Cynewulf!
5320810
Wehrmacht + weeaboo.
5320826
Aryanne is a fairly old concept. The term "brony" was coined on 4chan shortly before /pol/ started invading the rest of the website. The maniac with a sword that started this discussion made the story that made him semi-famous 8 years ago.
5320810
"Wehraboo"
Portmanteau of "Weaboo" and "Wehrmacht;" One who obsesses over Nazi German culture and iconography.
Edit: I took 3 years of German in high school, otherwise it probably would have gone over my head, too.
Thank you.
This was really good, Cyne. Thank you for writing it.
5320826
Bigoted us vs. them divides is baked in to human nature unless you do something to combat it. It was always there, but in the early days there was plenty of chance to create a culture that kept the virulent ones out, or at least made them keep their heads down and leave *that* shit somewhere else. But bronydom, alas, suffers from a BAD case of the Geek Social Fallacies, including the idea that since we're all about "friendship" excluding anybody at all from your friend group is bad.
Funnily enough, the show did an episode on this early on, though it wasn't read that way by most people. When Rainbow Dash chucked Gilda out of her friends group, in order to protect Fluttershy, she was doing just what bronies could and should have done.
Instead we wrote five million Gilda redemption fics.
And don't get me wrong, I like a good villain redemption story as much as the next person! More, sometimes. But the thing we forget, is that you can only redeem Gilda and Trixie and all those guys after they have been defeated. Nightmare Moon had to be beaten in order to get Luna. You don't get Luna if Nightmare Moon is putting her jackbooted hooves all over ponies in her Eternal Night.
We haven't defeated fascism, it's stomping all over US cities right this moment, stocked up high with tear gas and "non-lethal" bullets that keep hospitalizing people.
Very well written. Thank you for this.
Please keep in mind that the concepts of 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom of thought' mean, categorically, that only the individual involved is in charge of them. This, more than anything else, is what drives others to the unbalanced view that 'someone should be in charge here'. The world is rife with people who believe they are the 'Leader' that the world needs. The herd mentality of humans enables this to happen. Once you have given yourself to the 'herd', YOU no longer have to think. It doesn't matter if what you believe is "mint chocolate chip is the best ice cream ever", or "what we need now is an absolute dictator", your chosen herd will stand behind you and you will be safe.
Is this oversimplified? Yes, but freedom of expression must be stood up for if it is to continue. Losing it loses our right to think, and yes, that has happened and continues to happen. We cannot drop the struggle. It needs to continue.
All true, it would only be censorship to actually remove said art.
Writing and publishing awful things is free speech (for the most part, some speech is not protected as it is inherently a crime). Advocating burning awful things, also free speech. It's the burning part that is a problem.
Case in point, people downvoting a comment because they don't like what's being said, also free speech. It would again be deleting a comment that was actually censorship.
I found myself lost among the weeds in large portions of this post, but that line about the dog.
That line, I wrote down for later.
5320842
I took German too, and for some odd reason I never became the slightest bit interested in any of the awful shit from the war. I think a lot of the people who obsess over German warfare are fans of power and authority. Not all of them, mind you, but if you wanted to obsess over anything militaristic in history, why would it ever be the Nazis?
It's like proctologists. Sure, a proctologist might not be a butt freak, but there are certainly enough butt freaks out there and even though socially speaking I know I'm not supposed to assume you're a butt freak, if I ever have to see you I am definitely assuming butt freak when I go to your office. At least gynecologists have interesting baby-related stuff to fall back on.
5320880
And demanded it from the show until it happened.
chick!Gilda is the only thing in existence cuter than filly!Dash.
5320824
That's what China does, and it has pros and cons.
The pros: less fake news and conspiracy theories. For one, nopony thinks vaccines cause autism and death!
The cons: since a strong authority controls it, corruption galore, where those who have power squash everypony else. Although fake news is less overall, some fake news is pushed by the state. Loss of civil rights; minority persecution (like putting fanfiction authors in prison for writing slash fanfics, which they do there). People who get murdered and hurt having no voice to tell others. A mass infection spreading because the state doesn't want to look bad (okay, that one happens in the US too, but for the opposite reason). Millions of Muslims in a concentration camp having their culture and history systematically destroyed, as the state pretends the problem doesn't exist. Kidnapping the secondary religious leader of Buddhism so he can never choose the next Dalai Lama. Other assorted horrors I can't even begin to go into, all defended and deflected through state control of information.
So, yeah. I agree something needs to be done about it, but I have no idea what. The internet is simultaneously the best and the worst thing ever to happen to humanity.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!
Levianity aside, I had a big text agreeing with most parts but trying to present a counterpoint to the (perceived, please do correct me if I'm wrong) "if you said anything about freedom of speech you're wrong any should be ashamed of yourself" part, but it isn't the place for that. Specially since you felt much more the effects of the fascist and intolerant mindset than I ever will, and I have no idea how to not come as an asshole doing that.
5320819
Not all under a rock! Some of them follow you both.
I'd love to say I'm naive and idealistic, but I'm not from a first world country to say mine hasn't had a dictatorship in the last forty years. Or effectively a coup in the last five that's proceeding to roll back worker rights and trying to introduce "a cure for being gay" (you have no idea how much I'd love for this to be trolling). Or parents that didn't have protest for the right to have elections. Or grandparents that told of the day they went to jail for being "subversive".
In some countries the fighting's still some decades behind the US or Europe in many aspects, and the memory of state perpetuated torture and execution of political dissidents much fresher - and the risk of it coming back that much more real.
5320880
BUT you do present a rather poignant point in that for there to be coexistence the villain must be defeated first.
I just don't know when can you define an ideology to be "defeated" on order to any reference to elements of it not to be considered spousing the ideas themselves. Which point is that?
That's not rhetorical or a provocation, it's an actual question.
5320960
It's about power imbalance and the potential for violence.
Right now, it is not safe for me to attempt to redeem most fascists. If I walk up to one of Trump's secret police, up in Portland, just north of me, and try to talk to him about trans rights, black lives, and why the things he's doing are evil and his mother would probably be ashamed of him, or whatever other storybook attempt at redemption somebody might suggest, I will get beaten and/or shot.
In order for me to try to help somebody be a better person, I need to be safe when openly talking to them about my life and my experiences, and being openly transgender can not only get you killed, the "trans panic defense" is a real, legal thing in many places, so those who murder trans people can get off scott free, even!
That environment means it's just not safe for one side of this conflict to redeem the other. Even putting transness aside, black people aren't safe from white oppression, gay people aren't safe from straight people. Trying to convince, convert, redeem, save, etc. makes you all too likely to branded as disruptive at work, discriminated against in classrooms, mistreated by medical professionals, arrested by cops, and physically attacked by the worst among the right. I mean look at the BLM protests!
So the "defeat" for me in particular would be when the power structures in our society have shifted enough that being openly transgender, and speaking freely about what that's like for me is free of the risk of violence. When that's something that's supported, accepted, and without risk to simply be in public. At that point the anti-trans bigotry will have "lost" and it will be safe to try to redeem anyone who's still clinging to it.
Now there are brave souls who are willing to try redemption even now, when it can get them killed, and that's great! But you can't require people to risk their physical, mental, and emotional safety in order to save the people putting a boot on their necks. You just can't. So that's my standard. We fight the fash until they have so little power it's safe to have sympathy for them.
5320804 congratulations, now you too are cursed with knowledge.
5320989
Thank you, that was extremely informative. It makes sense, it's logical, it explains so much just WHY it happened like it did, it allows me to understand why you do have a valid point.
Also thank you for not branding me as the enemy due to my ideals and helping me understand yours. I saw preciously little of that during this entire debacle, if any at all.
5320880
I'd re-word this, because "defeat" isn't necessary for redemption. What is necessary is to accept the fact that one was wrong, and needs to change. And that's the reason Gilda had to be cut off, because she never believed herself to be in the wrong. Her attitude in that episode can be clearly seen -- pushed to extremes -- in a lot of the "white/straight/cis/male/Christian people are the true victims" rhetoric. They're not in the wrong for bullying others, those calling them out for being bullies are the "true bullies". Gilda's true redemption came after she acknowledged that she was wrong, and tried to do better.
That's the way it always works. Redemption is only for those who recognized that their actions and attitudes have been bad, and want to change themselves into better people.
Problem is, too many people want others to just forget and ignore all the bad stuff they do, and never hold them to account for it. Starlight's roaring rampage of revenge was blinding her to the consequences of her actions. When she was forced to confront what her worldview and desire for revenge would actually create, what the end result would be, when she realized the consequences of her actions, she made the decision to repent and try and change.
When confronted with the consequences of her actions, Gilda didn't chnge, she just doubled-down on her wrongness. It took being effectively ostracized by better people, and stuck living in an environment populated entirely of people with her worldview, to really understand how wrong she had been.
And that's why I can't be upset about the deplatforming (not censorship, there is a difference) of neo-Nazis, as well as their sympathizers, fellow-travelers, and "useful idiots" (look it up if you don't know what that means). As long as they get the benefit of "polite society", as long as they are allowed to participate in the culture on an equal (or in their case, typically superior) footing with those they denigrate and marginalize, they're not going to be motivated to change, they're not going to understand that they're wrong and that they need to end their hateful speech and actions. As long as they're being defended when they're being hateful, they will never stop being hateful; because under those circumstances they have no reason to stop being hateful while they're still being rewarded instead of penalized for being hateful.
5321031
Yeah, you have a great point here. Honestly, one could write a novel on the topic of how to change bigots, and probably still not cover every possible angle.
5320804
I am sorry that I exposed you to the term Wehraboo
5320810
It’s a play on “weeaboo” a silly and somewhat derogatory name for western anime fans (which they love). People who were, ah, *fans* of the Wehrmacht and ran in those circles got called that
5320960
The problem with the "mah free speech!" argument is that it's never ever actually about free speech. When you see someone using that argument, look at exactly how that person is targeting said argument, look at where it's directed, and who its intended recipients are. You will almost invariably find that the "free speech" argument is entirely and solely used to support the worst actors in mainstream society, and invariably *at the expense* of marginalized minorities.
These same people who insist that deplatforming neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates who are openly advocating for the enslavement and murder of minorities is "evil censorship", are the exact same people who call Black Lives Matter protestors "terrorists", who spread conspiracy theories like White Replacement, and who label all criticism of their worldview as "political correctness gone mad" and "cultural marxism". Who accuse feminists of trying to destroy "men and traditional masculinity. Who accuse homosexuals and transgenders of being "perverts" who are trying to "recruit children", "rape women in public restrooms", and "convince confused people to think they're transgender, and force them to convert". They loudly demonize communists and Muslims as "inherently violent and destructive". And they go on to insist that any expressions of these things should be stopped and silenced by all right-thinking people. They support violent police action against protestors, and the banning of student groups from university campuses. They are constantly talking out of both sides of their mouths, defending the "free speech" of fascist white supremacist out of one side; while attempting to shout down and censor anything that is critical of them or too far outside their own circle of acceptability.
They're not using their platforms to call for the end of discrimination against ethnic minorities, sexual minorities, or women; they're using their platforms to deny such discrimination even exists; and to denigrate and shout down and silence anyone who attempts to point out examples of this ongoing repression, using whatever tools they have available to them. Complaints about white people acting racists are flagged as "anti-white" racism and removed from social media platforms. Youtube videos refuting and debunking their assertions are hit with false DCMA claims and taken down, or at least demonetized; despite their repeated claim that they support "all speech", regardless of how "unpopular" it is.
They are, at best, idiots who don't stop to think critically about their uncritical support for unrestricted expression; and the results of that expression. In my experience, the idiots are in the minority; however. The majority of them understand what they're doing, they understand how this call for "free speech" is being weaponized by would-be murderers, slavers, and oppressors; and have chosen the side of the fascist white supremacists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, and other bad actors. Because that's who they have more in common with.
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Some people are even calling for the banning of the symbol.
Should they be allowed in stories if they're not in a positive light? Because I'm pretty sure most of the "supporters" are calling for that. Censoring of parodies ain't cool in my opinion, which is what some are calling for.
Well written and well done, Cyne. Thank for writing this essay. It is poignant as it is powerful. Thank you for the well thought out words that helped me see clearly what is at stake here.
Truly, the conflict here, watching the fandom I care for so much being torn apart, has been very difficult. It made for many sleepless nights and fervent hope that all would simply work itself out.
I have made comments on a few posts about being responsible with ones freedom of speech and expression. I had thought perhaps that by appealing to reason and moderation that it would make people think about what they were supporting and the ideals behind it.
I regret not being more firm and in thinking maybe this would all pass. That is not how it works with those who have the idea that others are beneath them. They will continue to spread that message and will eventually come to more tragic consequences for those that do not oppose them.
There is an old story about a sheep that helps the wolves devour the members of the flock until it was the only one remaining. It thought it was safe because it helped the pack. In the end, the pack didn't care and devoured the last sheep, too.
Thank you for helping me see that by hurting one of the fandom it hurts us all. We, I believe, are mostly people who are kind and compassionate to each other. To allow one or a few among us to make others feel uncomfortable, diminish their feelings and in effect silence them is not who we are or should be. And you're very correct; that is not censorship. It is the collective discourse of the group saying that we won't permit hate or intolerance or bigotry.
Not just because it's what the ponies in the show espoused but because hate is wrong. Because the idea that others are inferior because of who they are is wrong.
And those that think that way don't have a place here.
Thanks you again. Sorry it took me awhile to see it through.
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Thanks. I had never (or at least don't remember ever) heard the German term Wehrmacht, so that's where most of my confusion stemmed from. I had heard the term Weeb and Weeaboo, but I guess I didn't realize it was mostly derogatory.
Fantastic blog! The points that stick out to me most are the fact that those white knighting the Nazis are, if not Nazis, those who feel privileged enough that helping out a Nazi will not lead to any harm to them. They are the ones who can feel free to ignore the victims. The other point is actually in the comments, about how you can't redeem someone until the redeemer feels safe interacting with them. That's why Gilda had to be kicked out of Rainbow's friend group first, that's why Sunset had to be rainbow lasered. Starlight admittedly falls outside this metaphor.
Also really happy to see this comment section isn't being shitted up much.
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The internet is a tool. It is, like all tools, as Good or Evil as the people who use it.
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Perhaps, but while demanding that a platform do something is free speech, it's still up to that platform.
Hey Cyne. I was unable to comment on your last blog due to life happening, but I've been thinking about what you and others have said ever since. I believe I can now articulate my thoughts.
In that blog, you quoted the joke that bronies either end up as TGBT, or as Nazis. Obviously that's an exaggeration for effect, but it makes me wonder if I'm the only one who became a Taoist instead.
The tenets of Taoism (chief among them Compassion, Harmoniousness, and Humility) are diametrically opposed to the ideas of National Socialism. Therefore, if any community contains both Nazis and myself, then eventually either they will leave or I will.
As bad as our situation is, it's probably for the best that all this happen now, before more of the bad guys can sneak in. I've seen one online community, Kiwi Farms, ruined over time by Alt-Right infiltration; I don't want the same to happen here.
Thus, you may see me offering advice and moral support to the good guys here and there. I wish I could do more, but as an essential worker with a complicated personal life, it's all I've got.
Now I want to say to you and your readers: Hang tough. Remember that the good guys outnumber the bad guys here.
This discussion has all been very serious so far, so how about a little music to lift our spirits?
This argument is another showing of a phenomena I call White Guy Shit. White men have it good, they're not part of any historically or presently oppressed groups, they're the default instead of being a 'token'. I mean, shit! There aren't even any slurs for white people! I guess cracker could count (even then fair's fair). Because they've been shielded from any real form of oppression, conversations about oppression are more fun exercises in Owning The Libs than they are discussions that have potentially deadly real world consequences.
What's been going on has been a very strong case of White Guy Shit. The two sides of this free speech debate have been having fundamentally different discussions. The pro-nazi-but-I'm-not-actually-a-nazi-but-I'm-okay-with-being-around-and-supporting-the-speech-of-nazis-people view the other side as policing what language is available using the fact that it offends them as an excuse. And, from their point of view, are they even wrong? To them, slurs and racism and such are things of the past, they only exist in theory, you silly libs! The KKK can have a rally and nothing will happen (cough cough Skeeter the Lurker cough cough)! While the sane people are having a conversation about how allowing this speech is fundamentally harmful to a free society and the people in it.
This disconnect is why White Guy Shit is so infuriating. It occurs when people just refuses to think racism can actually harm people because it's never harmed them. It also doesn't help that these people see themselves as the smartest people in the room (see this comment of mine on Aragon's blog for some of my thoughts on how this perspective develops (maybe I should start writing my own blogs instead of leaving long effortposts on other's)). Apt readers will realize that this is a similar thought process that leads to flat-earth and anti-vax stuff. Which perhaps explains why the venn diagram of these groups quite resembles a circle.
On a non-analytic note, this shit is so stupid. I went on TittySparkles' blog, and most of the people there were saying they hated nazis, but hey, you have to let them talk, even if you don't like it. And it's just like... you realize NOT having nazis is a viable option, right? Like, that's something you can do, at zero cost to you. Just mystifying.
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God, that was infuriating. I will claim neurodivergence as an excuse to not explain myself! And to be smug about how people are just not understanding that Nazis will magically vanish if people ignore them! As if the KKK faded out because of nothing much, and not because of the active, hard, difficult work of thousands of people from MLK Jr. to comic book artists. MLK fucking died working to get rid of racism, jackass. It didn't start becoming something shameful because of nothing much, gosh, I guess some people told some jokes. It cost lives to push it down, and now it's crawling back up. We can't push it back down again by pretending it's not there and going "la la la" with our hands over our ears!
The talking of point making Nazis/Conservatives/Reactionaries popular by censoring them with the Streisand effect is - hard to debate against at best.
If they gain traction with the main population, it says more about said population's inability to realise what they're advocating for is going to end in genocide.
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I'd never heard of that word before, but I'm familiar with the attitude of being overly enraptured with the German war machine. It's an attitude I've heard Potential History speaking against during his tank meme videos, and is talking about Germany's over-budgeted missteps.
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The people who are making Derpibooru their hill to die on: The edgelords posting racist crap for 'irony' and giggles; the actual racists who act under the cover of that apathetic irony; and the people who coddle them for the sake of avoiding any conflict, or are just terrified of any change in status quo. That's not drama; what's more alarming is how long they've been around.
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I'd hope they would be willing to stand against hate speech, either by understanding its detrimental presence on the platform or from listening to the community. It would not be wrong to push for that kind of change.
EDIT: Also Fimfiction isn't a website for learning history, "book burning" is an exaggeration.
I'm disappointed in you, but I suppose in the brave new world we find ourselves in, I should not believe people can be immune to a spreading mindvirus simply because I like their work, or appreciate some of their stated opinions. I really should not be surprised anymore. I see more and more people taking a "stand" and drawing lines, but there is no grand battle to be had.
I'll be happy when this demented insanity gripping the Western world is dead and gone, but I'm not sure what exactly will be left afterwords.
It's a shame, I would be quite willing to talk about these current matters one on one, but it seems one of the inherent effects, indeed defenses, of this mindvirus is an abject unwillingness to engage with anyone who doesn't share the infection.
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Jesus fucking christ, you think the stance "people who want me dead are bad" is a "mindvirus"?????? Are you from some other world? DO you live under a rock? Oh wait! Let me guess! You are a cisgender, straight, white man! Am I right?
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Get the Sword of Gryffindor.
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"Let me guess! You are a cisgender, straight, white man"
It seems you've already formed an image in your head of what I am, what I believe, and what my sins are. Who am I to try and dissuade you from those beliefs? By all means, go ahead and think of me what you want, I don't have the energy to try and change the mind of someone who is so infinitely knowledgeable. Block me and slap another tally on your "win" counter.
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If you weren't, you'd have jumped on the "gotcha" of "no I'm not!"
So I'm right, then.
Lol.