How certain negative comments, are just making me feel... sad and disappointed. · 10:06pm Jan 6th, 2016
Disclaimer: I do not point out specific people here. I just want people to know how I think and how their criticism affects me as a person.
TLDR: Can you just re-read my last blog post and post comments that actually help without frustrating me or making me sad?
Okay, recently, I'm feeling a bit down again.
Look people, I love it when you support my story and I appreciate the feedback when its constructive, but here's the thing.
How I write and how I work on my fanfiction, is based on the notion that the author does not ultimately answer to the readers.
I also wrote Equestria's Changeling Queen and the Abyssal Empress, mainly for myself, because well, I wrote Princess Celestia: The Changeling Queen because I wanted a possibly quite popular story with an interesting idea. I tailored it to be popular, and I wrote a story that I thought would be read.
Now that I finished PC:TCQ though, I wanted to try something a little unconventional, something nontraditional, something that I wrote for myself, albeit with substantial help, but something I can write that I personally could be proud of because I didn't actually tailor it to be popular
Except in supposedly the world's friendliest fandom, I get PMed or commented with things such as this:
Load of crap. Do you have at least have some justification for YOURSELF? If you have nothing even to support your headcannon, than I call bullsh*t. There HAS to be SOME justification, if there isn't any, then don't clame anything, and don't try to enforse it on others.
(following are not direct quotes):
"This story has lost my interest, I am quitting"
"This story sucks. They should have weapons to massacre the kelpies."
"The kelpies are too strong. They are overpowered."
I understand when people say "you didn't explain this well enough, or I think this could have been explained better or, okay what's going on, I'm a little confused here."
That's fine with me. People are free to their opinion. People can leave and not read the story anymore and I'm fine with that.
But recently, I feel that instead of actually getting feedback, I feel that I'm onn the butt end of someone trying to make me feel bad. I don't know if that was the intention or not, but felt that way and I really don't see how this is trying anything but an attempt to change my opinion of what I'm writing or just get a rise out of me.
Why do I feel that? Because I specifically stated in my last blog post what makes me feel sad and annoys me, and yet people keep doing it.
Anyway, I could spend debating here about characterization and stuff all day, so here's my main point. If you don't like the story, don't read it and don't try to draw attention to yourself saying "this sucks, I'm bailing!" The criticisms don't help unless I'm given alternative solutions in a way that is in the tone "Well perhaps you could do this" instead of "This sucks, do this!" I'm not writing by committee by reader input, so saying its wrong, its wrong, its wrong, doesn't help my mental state which is already dogged by recent stress of school.
That aside, i don't get some of the comments in the first place. I am I not allowed to have my own headcanon about the Equestrian military? Am I not allowed to make thousand year old iceboxed Celestia less powerful than Tethys who is over water? I mean there is canon precedent in the Royal Wedding, Sombra, Tirek and Discord for that matter as Celestia never beat them by herself or not at all. But i'm not here to argue that, I'm just really surprised and disappointed that some people can't seem to just wait, see, or understand that stories do not operate upon their wants or headcanons... some stories are going to subvert expectations, and this is one of them.
Alternia is not going to be able to just diplomancer her way out of this or launch a tactical depth charge strike. This is a story about what happens when the irresistable force (Tethys) meets the immovable object (Alternia). And to quote Superman...
They Surrender.
This ain't going to be a story where the heroes destroy the enemies. This is one where they will have to try to negotiate with the antagonists they do not like or else all hell breaks loose. I've said this before and that's how it is going to be, and trying to make me feel bad isn't going to change that. Call me thick-headed or thick skinned, but I like this idea, I'm sticking to it, and I've said this before already.
So to those who continue to try to make me feel bad about what I'm writing, and yes I say that because I indicated in my last blog post that these types of comments ONLY make me feel bad and annoy me instead of actually providing me with information i can use. Here is my response, which I am essentially reiterating from my last blog post and i really shouldn't have to repeat.
I appreciate and love the support I get for my work, but if you don't like the story, don't publically quit. Feel free to inform me about what I can do better on things that are not related to personal headcanon, such as style, story, and characters in a constructive manner that is respectful of the fact that this is my story after all. If someone does publically say "I quit, or this story sucks," I will simply delete and block the user based on the assumption they have read these two blog posts as they are likely just trying to get my attention and annoy the heck out of me.
As for those who think the kelpies are monstrous...
Everybody is free to their own moral code. But... I can't honestly going to say people like the Aztecs who ate people and sacrificed them, or the Donnor Party who had to eat the bodies of their dead fellow passengers, or the survivors the Essex, some of whom also had to eat the dead bodies of their crewmembers, were monsters.
Obviously the kelpies aren't meant to be nice. They're ruthless, they are antagonistic to the protagonists of this story. They enforce exactly what's being said on the treaty damn the consequences. You can call them monstrous for that, but to say they're monstrous because they eat the meat of others... is very strange in my opinion.
Again, nobody has to agree with me. I just want to let people know that shouting, "the kelpies are monstrous cannibals" is not going to do anybody, especially me, any good. I'm just going to not read those comments.
I really really want to actually discuss stuff with my readers and answer questions, not fend off accusations or criticisms in the comments section once more. So can I please do that again? I really really enjoy doing that, but I haven't been able to do so.
Believe me, when I first submitted For the Emperor and the UNSC!, I got more dislikes than I wanted, and I've also gotten a few comments where people said they didn't like it. But for every hateful comment, there's always more supportive comments. So don't let the negatives get to you, you'll always have my support and I'm sure others will too!
Well I like your work, and those who feel the need to be assholes can go get fucked
Spoilers btw
3668703 Right...
Unfortunately, when you produce content you do so with the assumption that some people will dislike what you've made. My speciality goes clean into action sequences. Giant blades, epic flowing attire trails in the wind and awesome clashes between the hero and villain. I tend not to move into other genres, however I have tried my hand in sad and mysterious writing. I can do it with a bit more effort than my natural flow of battle writing, but it's possible.
Downside is these attempts will never be recognised. Sometimes my more popular stuff with 2000+ views get criticised to shit, even though the story itself is sound in every way. Some say stuff like:
"That would never happen!"
or
"You just can't do that!"
Even though these things are well within the bounds of reality, and could happen. Situations in which luck or misfortune come into play get you shouted at for being 'unrealistic', and some people don't seem to recognise what they're reading is not in real life and is in fact what we normal people call 'fiction'...
Then there are people who refuse to accept another's headcanon. When writing with entirely new species, characters and events in stories, you have so much more freedom to do what you want. This gives you some room to tweak your headcanon, yes? However it means you have a lot of explaining to do. I feel some readers are so caught up with their own beliefs they can't look at another's from an uninfluenced perspective. Everything has to be compared to what they think, and if it's different by more than, lets say, spelling 'Griffon' like 'Gryphon', they go ape shit like it's the end of time itself.
I say, just ignore them. Truth is, some people like different things to others, and sometimes a reader feels disappointed by what they've read because the general description gave them a different perspective on events. Still no right to be dis-respectful, right? Maybe. But bygones will always be bygones. Things happen, people think in different ways to others, this guy likes different genres to that guy.
If you enjoy writing your own stuff, no-one can stop you from writing it. Some will like it and some won't. That's that. You're not being persecuted, my friend. It's just that you've built a fanbase on one thing, and then moved onto something different. People don't a;ways like change, so some will dislike it. That's all it is.
Continue doing what you're doing. Just make sure the hungry stalkers get what they need
.
Peace.
I think there's two things that play into these kinds of reactions:
The primary, and by far the most influencial - at least for many from the U.S. - is the idea of righteous vengeance. There's a very common mindset that if the good guys come out on top, then the bad guys get the snot beat out of them six ways from Sunday before outright dying. Nothing else will do. (See also, The Punisher, John Wick, Walking Tall, Man on Fire, Shoot 'Em Up(?), to a lesser extent James Bond, Jason Borne, and so many others...) Since the kelpies are being evil and the assumption is that Alternia will come out on top, and since your story doesn't seem to be heading toward unmitigated vengeance on the kelpies, lots of people looking for that specific fix are preemptively disappointed in the lack of bad-guy kicking.
To a lesser extent, and this is something that I am slightly concerned over, is that the kelpies have all the power currently. Given Tethys' personality and position, I can't imagine her having a reason to negotiate. Unless the ponies do something to make her stop and reconsider - some display of direct force (I don't think simply implying it would be enough) - she's been built up to a point where it seems like she should just laugh and carry on when Alternia sues for peace. I feel Alternia needs to use some force just to make Tethys pay attention.
Those guys and gals with such plain insults and stuff...a lot of them don't even read the explanations and blogs. There'd be just as much negativity if the entire situation was flipped and it was a kelpie and merpony slaughter. The haters who hate are always the most ignorant.
I quite enjoy your work. PC:TCQ and ECQatAE are not something you see very often and it takes a lot of thought and hard work to compose a stories like these correctly. It seems that people don't realize this is a fanfiction website. Fanfiction isn't canon, and you could write by the book characterization or add more depth and personality to said characters in your own way. So you didn't get your omnipotent alicorn goddesses. They have their faults and restrictions and it makes them more relatable.
Do those people honestly think that the kelpies being smacked down with barely a fight would be interesting?
I personally love this story, but I don't ever comment on it because theirs nothing for me to add and I feel most of the other people that read it and like it are the same way. People who like something just enjoy it then go on but the ones that don't like it and are assholes, or are on the internet like to be extremely negative because they know no one will do anything about it to them in real life
I may not personally like the sequel for Princess Celestia: The Changeling Queen as much as the original, but that's only because the sequel is so much more different than the original, and as such what held my interest for the first story doesn't capture it for the second. I think that is why so many people might be giving off hurtful comments, because they don't understand that the sequel isn't the same as the original, or at least in denial, and that makes them disappointed. This disappointment turns into anger with some people. It's still a great story that is objectively good, it's just some people get objective and subjective opinions mixed up and nag that you should change the story to what would subjectively make it perfect in their eyes. It's your story, and you should do with it as you please, even if it's not the direction I wished for it. I have it favorited, but I still haven't read the last ten chapters
In short, the direction the story goes in is your choice, and if people don't like it than that is THEIR problem. So if anyone is giving off subjective opinions as if they are objective statements of fact, IGNORE THEM.
I have hundreds of head canons, but they are never ruined when I see a different one to mine. Most of my changeling headcanon is made up on the spot with no show roots. Most of my headcanon is also private and won't see the light of day except with one friend.
I find that if I read certain stories it can add to my headcanon. If something doesn't agree with me, I read it anyway in the hopes it can change my mind (except character death grimdarks... most of the time they have to be really good for me to read them)
I won't phrase your story any further as I already did that... but some people ruin things for other people, and I just have to return to this world again. It was too good to ignore. No matter what, I will always support this story.
As always you'll have my support.
I wavered back and forth on how to phrase my feelings on this matter because the current situation in the story does feel a little...off in my opinion.
I'm not opposed to Celestia loosing against an ocean born monster. Tethys is in her element after all and Celestia is very much not. Nor am I entirely opposed to the idea of Equestria's navy suffering a defeat against the kelpies. My own personal issues with the current arrangement and what I think might be fueling some of these reactions, all comes down to how those events are portrayed.
Equestria's navy didn't just loose. It got completely steamrolled. It didn't seem like they had any plan for what to do if they were attacked by the kelpies. And while the idea of having a story where needing to negotiate and engage in diplomacy is a totally awesome thing to do, the kelpies themselves don't seem like they really have the capacity in them to co-exist. Which feels really bizarre to see in a story you're writing, since you did such a good job of fleshing out the Changelings in your last fic. They felt like a real society that could have legitimate grievances with Equestria. The kelpies? Well, they pretty much just look and act like monsters. It's hard to see a situation where the kelpies can move away from that.
Now, that being said, a lot of the comments on the story itself have felt needlessly hostile. Don't see a lot of need to angrily flip the table and walk away from the story. I just think that it has a few issues right now. Though I do hope that it turns around, as I do like your writing and your stories.
Well I can give you the answers you want, but I don't think you are going to like them.
I am not trying to be mean by the way I am only trying to give you feedback.
A good deal of why your fans are so upset is that you changed your writing style for this sequel.
It is your story of course so I am not saying you can't...however a lot of your fans came to this story because they liked how you wrote before...by changing your writing style up for the sequel it ends up feeling like a bait and switch.
Basically by changing your writing style for the sequel it makes your fans feel like you betrayed them.
If you really wanted to try out a new writing style you could have done it with a whole new story, and seen from the get go which fans liked it and which didn't...Instead you did it with an already established story, and your fans feel hurt and confused.
As far as the feedback goes I am curious as to why you wanted it in the first place.
Again I am not trying to be mean I just honestly do not know what you are looking for...as many of us have tried to give you constructive feedback meant to help the author...yet the author has time and again stated that not only are you not listening to your fans, but that it does not even matter what we think you are going to keep doing the same thing anyway.
What is the point of giving any kind of constructive feedback when the author is not going to do anything with it except tell those that comment that don't know what they are talking about...
Is it any wonder your fans are getting upset and frustrated?
As far as the kelpies go they do feel over powered...every time I see the word kelpie I can't help but translate it into red and black OC Alicorn...that is how OP they feel.
I understand that you want to have that moment where fighting just is not going to do it, but it could have been approached in a different way...
I am not telling you how to write your stories...I am just giving out suggestions and feedback.
Instead of making them so ridiculously strong you could have gone the hostage route where they took someone or something hostage...or maybe they have access to an artifact that makes them ridiculously strong...
Celestia did not have to win the fight...I agree she has a bad track record (except that some of that was Alternia)...however a creature that has lived several thousand years would have a lot of experience to draw from even in their weakened state...
All in all it just feels like the OP kelpies are your OC Alicorn made specifically to help you with a plot device to force the story in a direction you want it to go.
Again I am not trying to be mean I am simply giving you the feedback on why your readers are so frustrated.
Ugh. People.
In all seriousness. I love this series, particularly ECQ:AE. I'm really enjoying reading something where the protagonist is forced to negotiate instead of just getting a bigger gun. Equestria is, for the most part, a paradise, and I've always found it interesting when that sort of idyllic setting come under external pressure. Working out how to succeed without abandoning their values is a much more thought provoking than just finding a bigger stick.
Keep going, please.
3668875 Okay this here. Thank you.
You worded this criticism respectfully. I mean I don't agree with all of it, though I can at least see what you are trying to get at and I have no grudge against people who word it like you just did. If only people were just as tactful as you were.
As such here I'll try to answer a few of your questions.
Perhaps this project was too ambitious and I think that's a pretty valid point that changing my writing style was a bit of a bad idea in hindsight. I don't regret what I wrote, but there are things I could have nuanced out a bit if I knew about the audience reaction for sure.
As for the kelpies... the problem here is that I think I might have timed and paced my reveal of their characters a bit too late. They appear quite in their element for sure at this point. I can't say much, but they..... aren't gary stus or red alicorn OCs. Zerv and I built them as balanced characters. Problem is that they have and are still shrouded very much in mystery and hence they don't seem to have any obvious weakspots.
In fact, if they did have obvious weakspots... i think we would have just as much rage about them as we do now :P
Are they forcing the story a specific way? That I actually am not too sure of. As an author I am admittedly blind to certain areas and while I don't think they are forcing it as it all seems to fit in my head. The other thing is that they're not entirely my characters as I loaned them from Zervziel and hence it doesn't feel like I made them to force the story in a specific way. I intended that when i wrote them they force the characters to take certain actions because its the only thing they can do. But I didn't mean to create them specifically to force the characters in a way.
i"m going to be watching for that. Probably nuancing them far more.
Hopefully that answers some of your questions. From now on though, I'm being very very very very careful about how I reveal more about the kelpies as the story goes on.
The fandom invented a version of Celestia that is basically omnipotent, in contrast to canon where Celestia gets constantly defeated and is shown as not that powerful, and many people are incredibly protective of that. Showing a realistic, canon-compliant Celestia pushes certain people's buttons like showing an intelligent and desirable Flash Sentry does to others.
What I find most disturbing is the fact that you have an Alternate Universe tag up, and people are still harassing you about your personal interpretations of characters.
Can we look forward to a blog everytime someone submits a snarky review to this story? Stop being so sensitive and deal with it- either respond, ignore, or delete the comments that are offending you, including this one if you must. Your story has a lot more likes than dislikes, so it's not as if this is a bad story or you're a bad writer.
There will always be people who don't like your art, either in part or in full. I personally didn't care for the last chapter, and I admit I was more rude than I should have been, but not every review is going to be nice, especially when we come to a section of the story where the characters we've come to know are getting ruthlessly hammered by an objectively violent and aggressive horde of cthulu-esque ponies. We're frustrated for the characters we like, which is a good thing because it means we're immersed. At least it does for me.
That being said, I will admit that Alternia's status as a likable character has waned somewhat for me in recent chapters, which lead to the "diplomancer" remark. She's become frustrating to me, and I don't know how to express that in a way that meets your criteria for an acceptable review.
This video is revelant to the situation.
Also, my history is fuzzy, but to my knowledge the Aztecs were bastards, which is why the Spanish had so much help from the other natives that they were constantly sacrificing to their god. You kill your neighbors enough, and they'll jump at the first opportunity to kill your sadistic ass right back. Which is extremely relevant to this story, funnily enough.
If you feel like your stress is getting to you then you need to take a break, step back and look at some of the complaints try and see where they're coming from.
Here I'll give you some suggestions as to how to move on:
1. Grow a thicker skin you're writing a dark sequel to an established story somebody isn't going to like the unwarned about tonal shift
2. Drop or de-emphasize the diplomacy thing that way the characters are smart they can see it is unlikely the Kelpies can't coexist
3. Drop the eating of other sentient races then perhaps the audience doesn't feel like negotiation isn't completely unreasonable
4. Drop the irredeemably evil part if they aren't irredeemably evil then it might make sense for sensible people to try and negotiate with them.
5. Show don't tell, SHOW people why diplomacy is an option HAVE Equestria look into military means to solve this, have them fail or be delayed by six months, put pressure on the Equestrians from outside forces, negotiating with hostile forces without any sort of backup plan at all is out of character for BOTH Celestia AND Alternia. Heck its the government of an entire nation a government it's allowed to multitask
6. Show don't tell in the comments, if Celestia and the Equestrian Navy is getting their asses beaten in and the antagonist is immune to even Celestia's super attack put forward some kind of a reason either now or later. Obviously people aren't going to be happy at all if the reason isn't hinted at right now since you're releasing these chapters periodically and they're just gonna have to wait
7. Show something now don't tell us answers are coming forth in the future without hinting at them at all *inside of the story*(that's the important bit)
8. Foreshadow something
9. Sit down and write the story to a point where people are getting explanations to the above questions before releasing anymore chapters
Personally I like option 9 the best because it will mean that there ARE explanations for whats happening now. Because if you want to have everything your way you have to explain you can't just say "that's my headcanon" without explaining anything inside the story itself it makes the story look badly put together because not having the whole of it in front of them people can only judge by what they have now. And right now the story is a good 74k words along and from the sounds of it people aren't starting to get explanations.
I also like option 8 because then you could start hinting at people that there IS an explanation to all this, or there is a blah blah blah and people won't get so frustrated as to why they aren't getting explanations right now since they have hints that something is forthcoming.
First off, it's most likely been said, but you're going to have to deal with this sort of stuff. Thick skin is a necessary tool in any artist's arsenal.
Secondly, your readers are not obligated to make their comments helpful to you. They are commenting to express their thoughts, either for themselves, for other viewers, or for you. Any of which is perfectly acceptable. If you want helpful critique, find an editor or reviewer. Your readers don't owe you anything.
Thirdly, these comments aren't unhelpful. Using your examples, "This story has lost my interest, I am quitting" and "The kelpies are too strong. They are overpowered." absolutely have information for you to glean. Receiving multiple complaints along these lines shows a strong indicator that something is wrong.
Lastly, if your intentions do not line up with the interpretations of the readers and you have to explain them outside of the story, that means your story failed to deliver those intentions properly.
Neither the attitude you're taking towards these comments or your public calling out of them are good ways of handling the situation. I tried saying this in a kinder way on your previous blog post, but seeing you say the same things again—as though people didn't get it the first time—is a bit irritating.
If you'd like me to give a written review of your story and explain what works and what doesn't for what reasons and how to avoid or achieve certain things, shoot me a PM. Or don't. I'd really recommend against making blog posts of this tone in the future.
3668901
3668991
I feel like numbers three and four in Atuhor Name's statement really kind of sum up why the kelpies aren't working for a lot of the audience. They come across as just so much like irredeemable monsters. You talk about weak spots in your own post Vren and I don't think that's their main issue.
The main issue is that I'm not seeing a society here to engage in diplomacy with. From my perspective as a reader from outside the fic, who doesn't know what's coming down the line already, the kelpies kind of come across as aquatic orcs, or the deep ones from HP Lovecraft. Creatures that don't care about civilization or creatures other than themselves to the point where you really gotta wonder, what is there to talk about? In some ways, they're almost written too well as the unknowable, mysterious things.
3669196 You have a point in regard to the unknowable mystery thing... I'm really thinking about this hard...
Though if I start making corrections, its likely the story is going on hiatus for a bit.
the thing to remember about this site is that it is author driven. if the author decides to stop, continue, or even pass the story to some one else it is his choice. that is why constructive criticism is a must or we mite just run of the vary author that we are trying to help. if you have a complaint balances it with some thing you like. (there is something you like or else why are you even reading the story.)
if you do not like the works than do not patron it (as in take it out of your watching/favorites lists or whatever you use to keep track of it).
well i will get off my soap box and say i love story and will keep on looking for new story's.
3669211
Ultimately, the question comes back to this.
What is this fic supposed to be about?
If the story is about the politics of nations and a new player on the stage, I think that the kelpies really need to be portrayed less...evil. If the story is about defeating an out of control leader that's dragging her nation down a bad path, then there needs to be more evidence of less unity between the kelpies down there. If the story is about a horrific group of eldrich abomination monsters, then the diplomacy option really doesn't work. Considering your previous statements, I think that it's more likely the first or second option. But, if the case, it really needs to be portrayed better.
I do also think that making the fights a little less...curb stompy would be a good idea too, as your readers would be going into them with less certainty that Equestria would be loosing and thusly have less of a reason to mentally check out. Though, I will stress I feel that is a seperate thing to possibly address from how the kelpies are portrayed on a political and character level.
ok here's the fact people: vren55 is trying to make a story he will REMEMBER AS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!
Everyone is entitled to there opinion. and i respect others opinions. and you WILL show respect for others as well. if you don't, and are looking to ruin others hopes and force them into YOUR way of thinking, find Satan and live with him. you will find that you'll be happier then. and no one will care your gone!(or may live happier without their hopes being crushed.) or miss the fact that your a new age Hitler living in the internet!
vren55 has some(most) of only fanficts i read as he has great ideas. as such don't try to crush his dreams just to replace them with ones based after your own. that would make you nothing more than a slaver of minds! like bending others to your will?
find a ditch and die. trust me. i have died already.(a few times.) and i'm back seeking to help others. im just as hard to kill as wolverine. and getting rid of me can be the hardest thing you can do!
vren55 made it clear that flames will not be tolerated. to do so anyway makes you nothing more than a soulless husk. constructive criticism is ok. but to bail and say that his work is horrible, that's just trying to ruin someone. bailing is fine, just don't tell them in a way that breaks them. in fact don't tell them AT ALL.
im sorry if this came across as being an ass, but someone getting crushed like this makes my mind go off like a supernova. and i wont stand for it.
raging at all is not normal for me. posting this is more out of place than the deathstar fighting the enterprise and equestria turning out to be housing unicron inside it just to be revived and join the fray!
vren55, i have enjoyed all your stories, and look forward to any more. keep up the good work, and dont give in to the cultist trying to ruin your work.
3669262
If you want to convince people of anything, this is exactly the wrong way to go about doing it.
3669261 Didn't I write what the fic was about in my blog post lol?
But on that aside, (and I make no promises) its possible I will have to tweak how the kelpies are portrayed.
Its not that they are bad, I like the design, but reception could be better... so to speak.
3669262 Thanks for the vote of confidence footto, though I should have remembered that people's comments are always entitled to their own opinions.
Which you are entitled too as well :D I just like you to know though that yours sounds a mite inflamatory...
Reading about the side you're rooting for getting curb stomped chapter after chapter justifiably has a negative impact on your readers. Trying to justify the reasons they got stomped in the first place in the comments section instead of actually having it believably done in the story is just pouring salt in the wounds.
The very best villains have always been the type that dashed hopes, if you never give that hope in the first place it really just makes people angry. I'm sure there are plenty of ways you could have had the same outcomes of all these "battles" without making Equestria and its leaders seem completely incompetent and weak. The sort of baddies you have here (the pop out kill everything with zero resistance) Is best suited for horror stories.
3669300 Well... the kelpies are horrifying though and are supposed to be... though I can see what you are getting at. The problem here is how can Equestria fight an enemy effectively when they've never fought them before and are on their home turf?
I can see what you mean though... as to why people are annoyed. Though, some people seem to be operating by headcanon interpretations of Celestia's power.
Argh... trying to sift out the legit criticism from headcanon motivated criticism is rather difficult.
Well there's a lot here I could say but I think instead of wasting time I'll build on what has already been said... specifically over the Kelpies being OP. Though I should say that a lot of this is only coming now while I'm thinking about it, the story has been keeping me on the edge of my seat and worrying about what is happening now and next rather then the details of what just happened which is great! These things, for me at least aren't jarring enough to matter, I'm just trying to rationalize it if I can.
I guess they are over powered here to an extent and I don't really disagree with that, after all we admire a character more for trying to achieve then actually accomplishing. At the same time unless you happen to be into tragedy we don't want all that effort to be for naught all the time... which kind of feels like it happens here. Key words: feels like.
Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about here and this is speculative nonsense but while the ponies are experiencing some success I don't think it is outlined well enough. For example I remember something along the lines of 'them not liking Celestia's fire spells very much'. Perhaps actually giving a brief description of them wailing in pain as they fall away from the ship it might have some effect. I don't think you've actually directly mentioned any Kelpies dying yet and I think that makes a strangely particular difference. It is blatantly obvious ponies are dying in droves but not so obvious that they are taking some Kelpies with them.
Simply put: it's painful watching helpless sods mercilessly getting their teeth kicked in, maybe you should ease up, just a little bit.
3668747 That first point probably isn't helped by the notion that appeasing or negotiating with an aggressor is seen the same as letting them trample and bully you. I think I remember a lot of that in Regan's speeches about the USSR.
As for feedback about the actual story... I'll be honest, there's way too much I'd want to
complain aboutcritique, but what is basically seems to come down to (at least to me) is that the characterizations are too far in the extremes.Alternia is too far towards a Mary Sue. She is, if not always then almost always, right. Getting unfairly targeted in a meeting? Skillfully turns it around and comes out on top. Need to get changelings and ponies working together in joint guard duty? Easily solved. Luna and Celestia don't know what to do? Alternia has a plan. Celestia gets her ass handed to her and is about to get eaten? Alternia appears out of nowhere and saves her life. Etc.
Celestia and Luna are mostly useless. It's been a while, what with there being a two week period between chapters, but Celestia getting curbstomped is to my memory probably the most either of them have done to advance the plot during the entirety of the story thus far.
The Kelpies are an evil Mary Sue. At least so far there is, quite literally, nothing interesting about them at all. Every single interaction with them has been them easily slaughtering their way through anything and everything that looks at them the wrong way. Griffon armada? Decimated except for a few gibbering survivors to tell the others what they saw. Equestrian fleet? Overrun with ease. Changeling Queen? Eaten. Celestia? Almost eaten. Your average pegasus/unicorn/earth pony? Would have a better chance of harming the enemy by poisoning themselves and jumping overboard.
3669300 thats true. and sorry for posting that. its just to see others try to cripple someones goals like that just pushed me over the edge. i have a darker side of me that wants to wipe out all existence of ANYTHING. and i hate that side of me, it is locked in the darkest part of my mind, but still seeps thrue on occasion. trust me: its not easy living with a war of light vs dark in your mind...
that aside, please know that making others be pressed into your state of mind by forcing out their own is the worst way to help them develop. i had to go outside for a while and get some tea to calm down... sorry. ruining others dreams is something that should never of existed in the first place. it just pisses me off when i see it.
I, for one, am enjoying the story and plan to read it to the conclusion. It has elements of a thriller and a suspense; I don't see those much in fan fiction and I do enjoy good ones (which I count yours among). And then the action hits. There are lots of things I like about the story.
So, all I can add with regard to the negative comments is the mock-Latin phrase: Illegitimi non carborundum.
SCREW THE HATERS! THIS STORY IS GREAT! and your an awesome author, never doubt yourself.
3669325 Okay, I can see your point, though I don't agree with all of them, particularly Celestia being useless, Alternia being useless and the Kelpies being a sue. The feedback was appreciated though as I'm still thinking and being distracted from my thesis *facedesk*
I will say though that execution issues however might have led to this author-reader disconnect I've been experiencing of late.
This is the first time ever that Alternia has been called a sue though so forgive me if I am a bit skeptical and say I will think on it seriously.
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How can they fight these unknown enemies? with improvisation of course, any military worth anything should be able to adapt to the changing battlefield even if it may ultimately be unsuccessful.
This goes into my next point that I forgot to mention in my previous post (I may have actually commented this in an earlier chapter): The navies in your stories are too much like real life navies. These are mythical ponies and beasts with a way different set of skills than that of a human. The skies the limit to what could be changed in terms of tactics, for instance it seems ludicrous that you would immediately dismiss pegasi in the navy, in fact I think they would likely be the most useful. for example in a naval battle, whats stopping pegasi or gryphons from boarding enemy vessels and causing havoc? which in turn would have a whole other set of tactics for detering such an attack, which would work just as well for enemy's boarding a ship from the sea rather than the sky, right? Better yet whats stopping these flyers from carrying a timed or an impact fused bomb and dropping it over enemy vessels? These same bombs could be used as improvised depth charges, obviously they wouldn't pack the same punch as purpose built one and probably not enough to change the tide in these surprise battles but they could certainly cause some enemy casualties. And that's not even getting into what a unicorn could potentially do.
My point is that it really doesn't seem like you made any effort to make the battles as anything other than one-sided, for all these amazing descriptions you made of the ships you paid very little attention to changing tactics based on the skills of the different races in this universe.
3669321 The problem isn't their headcanon its yours, you aren't putting all the cards on the table that people need to explain the antagonist properly.
So far they have to go on what they've been given and any attempt to say that "well maybe the Gryphons could hold out a bit before being eaten." or "Maybe the fight with the Equestrians could still end with them being creamed but putting up a fight" is reinterpreted as "They win the fight against the Kelpies" or "that goes against my headcanon" neither of those are answers to people wanting things to be less one sided.
NOBODY HAS SAID "We want Equestria to win every fight against the kelpies unilaterally and go back to home in time for tea" they're saying "these fights are boring because not only are they going to lose 100%, your headcanon has decided they need to lose HARDCORE and will accept no arguments for a less one sided and more interesting fight." People are annoyed because they think Celestia lost really really disappointingly easy and your headcanon for Celestia is that "she will never put up a fight and I won't explain why."
If it was foreshadowed, if it was explained, if you put in a single line of dialogue saying "we shouldn't have fought them on their home turf" if you put in something about Celestia where she's de-powered on odd days of the week. It would have some sort of justification but you're asking for feedback here and people are annoyed and they're explaining why they're annoyed and you just say my headcanon is that Celestia could be beaten by Krillin's farts if he was facing the other direction.
People aren't annoyed because Celestia lost, people are disappointing because you could tune out these fight scenes because they only go one way the second Kelpies show up. There is no dramatic tension in "the antagonist wins unilaterally and the good guys only kill one sea dragon by mistake" or "they are unknown therefore an invincible foe that cannot be killed under any circumstances until they are known."
The problem isn't that your headcanon is wrong its that your story isn't backing it up.
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All of these are my opinion. I love your work, I want to know how this'll be concluded, and I understand why the Kelpies are so strong: water is their domain. The Kelpies live in the ocean, so they can use it and its inhabitants like a weapon. To me, the Kelpies aren't very monsterous, but I have carved open living creatures to study and made a super virus responsible for at least 20 million deaths. I'm far more of a monster than the Kelpies could ever be, and I've worked with the same people I've wronged so horribly in the past. If I can work with the Lotus and her Tenno after creating the Mutalist Strain and turning their corpses into a lovely hound, then Alternia can negotiate with Tethys.
3669432 Wait what?
I was specifically talking about people who think Celestia can raise the sun and get a mega boost in power.
I can sortof see your first point. I think I may have shrouded too much mystery in the antagonist in regards to motives for sure and in terms of execution of my headcanon, i'm beginning to see problems.
But if Celestia loses to Tethys (and the fight isn't over yet now Alternia's here) then yeah... she's weaker or at least she's not so experienced fighting against shapeshifting sea creature... I don't see the problem with that.
Perhaps the fight could stand to be more interesting though... it is a bit too roflstompish.
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You shouldn't take them so personal. Actually moral outrage is one of the greatest compliments you can get as a writer because it means you made quite an impact to the readers.
3669508 Agreed.
3669462 Appreciate the support, but i don't know what you are talking about.
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I'd agree, except for this key part
Why? Because it's tantamount to saying that a real life navy doesn't need aircraft. And aircraft are the main power that any modern navy has today.
The number of aircraft carriers is one of the best measures of a nation's naval might. It is a carrier's compliment of planes and helicopters that gives it power, as it can project a massive amount of force geared for a variety of situations.
While pegasi are not nearly as effective as an F-14 Tomcat or even a WW1-era biplane, they can still carry weapons and perform boarding actions or surprise attacks. Being able to board an enemy ship without needing to risk your own ship, or sending off a flight of pegasi to drop (hoof)held bombs all over the decks of a ship...
The only vaguely rational reason that someone would not use pegasi in the navy would be because literally nobody has thought about doing it. Even then, it's supremely unlikely because pegasi would have been useful in naval situations the entire time a navy has existed.
Unlike humanity, the ponies have had a means of flight (and thus flying weapons) since the moment they figured out how to build a boat.
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Clarification! It's from the MMORPG Warframe. The Lotus is Navi, who guides you. The Tenno are Link, whom the player plays as. And Mutalist Alad V is some sort of boss enemy in the Warframe Universe. I guess he's comparing his relationship with Lotus and her Tenno to that of Tethys and Alternia's. If a monster such as he can get along with the good guy(s)/girl(s), then so can Tethys with Alternia. I guess. I hope this helps.
Please note: Haven't actually read your story yet, just here for the complaints, the comments, and the clarification. It is on my to-do list, though. Do with that what you will.
To address one specific complaint you mentioned in your post, regarding the kelpies being overpowered.
Nope, not in the least. They're:
1) fighting in an environment where they have advantage;
2) striking from ambush at the time and place of their choosing;
3) striking targets who have (based on the story so far) exactly jack and squat for the detection of targets below the surface of the water. No sonar, no hydrophones, not even a pony stuck to the hull with a facemask and a snorkle looking below the waterline (and no radar either, for that matter);
4) striking targets who have no effective way to return fire so long as they stay in the water. No depth charges or torpedoes seem to be available to their prey, which ties in to the above point: their targets are basically incapable of effectively detecting or fighting a subsurface enemy.
5) enjoying a considerable psychological advantage against their targets;
6) fighting an enemy who was in no way, shape, or form ready for battle at the outset.
7) being led by an alicorn-caliber leader who has obviously planned this campaign out well in advance to play to the kelpies' strengths and minimize their weaknesses.
Taking all of these points into consideration, I'd say the kelpies are a credible threat, not an overpowered one.
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umm.. wat? That was the whole point i was trying to drive, the author said "Well Pegasi aren't really going to serve in the navy that much." in a comment on the actual chapter which seemed to make no sense to me. Did you just stop reading my reply after you got to that?
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This is another thing I failed to mention, while i firmly believe that the grphons/equestrians should not have keeled over and lost so spectacularly with seemingly no enemy casualty's/loss of life I still think it certainly makes sense that they were thoroughly defeated. It's just that the way the author wrote the battles makes the friendly's seem like such hopelessly lost pushovers. Give the good guys some pride at least... They are after all fruitlessly fighting for their lives.
you don't seem to be doing much to act on the criticism people have though. A way to make it less is to let the equestrian navy have a small victory against the kelpies. Maybe that they ambush a small number of kelpies and manage to kill them. It wouldn't change to overall situation but would create more realism.
3669657 That won't be possible, but I do feel at this point that I need to reworkparts of this story.
Need to talk to my editor first though ;p
If it isn't constructive criticism then it is a waste of everyones time