Rehabilitation 10.5: Immune System of the Soul
Even though she hadn't apologized, even though she'd merely rephrased their commitment to heed each other's advice, the conversation was still bringing him a good amount of unexpected satisfaction. Perhaps because he had just been given a working definition of 'apology' that finally made sense of the whole concept, at least in those rare instances when it wasn't a ploy for dominance or manipulation.
There was only one part of Luna's spiel that gave Riddle some pause, and it had nothing to do with her remarks on their ongoing interaction. "You consider a 'state of nature' to be the worst state of life?"
"The worst state of sapient life," she amended. "It is the default state for all other life. And it is default for much of intelligent life too, sadly. Or it was."
"The worst state is also the default state…" he said, his cynicism not disagreeing at all, which didn't often happen with Luna's wisdom.
Luna spoke in a sad, certain voice. "It is how all of nature works. Since it is natural, it is default."
"What makes it 'the worst' if it is so ubiquitous?"
"It is not ubiquitous in Equestria anymore, but wherever it exists, it brings about the 'black' rule, the rule you abided by your whole life before coming to Equestria, the rule followed during emergencies: 'Do whatever is in your own best self-interest, using any means at your disposal.'"
"That doesn't seem especially bad to me," he pointed out. "In fact, it doesn't seem bad at all."
"I am aware of that, but please let me finish. The rest of the rule is 'Do whatever you feel you can get away with, regardless of the feelings, preferences, lives, and properties of others.' The black rule is bad if and when it crosses the threshold into callous disregard for others, which it inevitably will when it is a general mindset and not just a response to temporary emergency."
Still not bad, he thought. "In my experience, that is the mindset of most people."
"Indeed," said Luna. "I am not surprised to hear that, given what you have shown me of Earth. Equus used to be the same way. Those who follow the black rule-" like you, she did not say, but was probably thinking, "-often grew up in states of nature. The mindset exists because it benefits those who actively live in states of nature, but it gets in the way of life beyond a state of nature."
"And what is the state of nature, precisely?" The phrase was somewhat straightforward, but he wanted it clearly defined.
"It is life beyond a peaceful civilization. It is life without safety, good authority, justice, negotiation, and mutual benefit. Today, states of nature are typically only seen in the wild, or on the furthest reaches of Equus. But in the past, and in the modern human world I would wager, such states could also be found in private households. Or in the open public, if the civilization is barbaric enough. No justice, no goodness, no fairness, no listening, no heeding of preferences... and that's if you're lucky, it is typically far worse. Screaming and violence, torture and sadism, constant stress. You and I experienced this growing up, but while I had Tia to lift me out of it, you were all alone until Dumbledore came along, and by then it was far too late."
He frowned. "Too late for what, exactly?"
"For him to do anything about the abuse you suffered," she said. "Other than extricate you from it, which he did not even realize he was doing."
Riddle didn't quite have anything to say to that. Nothing to refute it, at any rate, so instead he made further inquiries.
"I still do not see how 'abuse' is related to a state of nature. That is not an intuitive leap for me. There is a large gap between wilderness and an orphanage."
"True, but there is a certain way in which the two are very much alike."
"Namely?"
"In excess, abuse causes a foal to believe death is just around the corner with a single wrong move, just like in nature. It produces a constant state of vigilance, an inability to relax which you only otherwise see in ponies who spend significant time in the wild, surrounded by predators."
"I know a man who practiced constant vigilance as a result of hunting Dark Wizards in his free time," Riddle pointed out. "And he was not abused, I think."
"That profession is close enough to being surrounded by predators that it has the same effect on the mind," she said. "It is the same way with dungeon delvers, which we do still have to this day, and who do not turn into psychopaths, because they did not grow up dungeon diving. A lack of empathy is the key here, and that comes from abuse and neglect in youth."
"And you claim Equestria has neither?"
"Not anymore," said Luna. "For the most part. Though it was common once upon a time. During the time of the Three Tribes and for many centuries after, all the way up through the day of my banishment. You would have to ask Tia when things truly began to change, though she would likely tell you it was gradual. But enough about history and prevalence, the point is that we both experienced it. We were ruled over by authorities who followed the 'black' rule, doing whatever they thought they could get away with, regardless of our suffering, and the worst part was that they pretended otherwise in public, which is also the black rule, as it lets them get away with more. Of course it also proved they knew better, in theory, and were massive hypocrites, but you see that only mattered to us, not them."
Yet another way to accurately analyze Ms. Cole's behaviour, he thought.
"Under the black rule," Luna continued, "there really isn't a true limit to depravity, except our innate biological impulse of disgust, but even that can be overcome. We know that better than most. When lives are pitted against each other, whether by nature or by evil, anything goes. Parasitism. Theft. Cheating. Exploitation. Deceit. Treachery. Slavery. Murder. I'm sure you could offer a few of your own."
"Torture," he said at once. "Genocide. Rape."
"Correct to all three," she remarked. "Rape especially. In nature, survival and species propagation are all that matter. Anything that serves those purposes better than the competition will be rewarded by evolution. That is why states of nature are the birthplace of the black rule, and why it is the default when nothing intervenes."
"Sensible," he said. "Does your sister likewise believe it's inevitable? Most people like to fantasize about inherent goodness, not default selfishness." Not to mention the long tradition of philosophical arguments around that exact subject, whether sapient creatures are born good or evil.
"Default does not mean inevitable," said Luna. "Equestria puts so much emphasis on good parenting today because we know the consequences of bad parenting, or worse, no parenting at all."
"And those consequences are set in stone?" he asked. That was the most relevant to his personal situation.
"There are always exceptions. Some get lucky and see a good role model who is not a parent. And those born in clean environments and unusually high disgust sensitivities are less likely to tolerate certain kinds of evil regardless of parenting, though sometimes that just means they will ensure it does not happen in their direct presence. But to rely on genetics and luck is unwise. With proper guidance and incentive structures, you can grow out of the default, as my sister has proven. And she did it because she knows what happens when you don't. For instance-" she began, then visibly hesitated.
"For instance...?" he asked, now curious.
"…Let me put it this way," she said carefully. "I do not agree that the fear of death is evil. It is instinctual. It is natural. But most of the time the terror is temporary. You encounter a threat, you fight or you fly, you live or you die, and once the danger passes so does the fear. The inner animal goes back to sleep. The emergency is over, the state of nature is gone, the black rule is no longer needed. However, to always believe death is eminent, to always have a desperate fear of death… to grow up in a constant state of nature… that produces a permanent mental emergency, a permanent adherence to the black rule. You are like an animal at all times. And a K-selected one at that."
"The only reason I am not taking offense," Riddle said evenly, "is that you have used the phrase about yourself."
He also wasn't taking offense because, as the Animagus procedure proved, and as common sense suggests, human beings are indeed animals.
"Indeed I have," said Luna. "We all have animals within us because we are living, breathing creatures. My early youth was mostly animal..." Her light frown morphed into a soft smile. "And Tia saved me from that. I learned to be a pony, not just an animal." Her soft smile vanished. "But then the animal emerged again later. You never had that reprieve, I think. Ms. Cole's arbitrary moods and violent punishments were like a miniature state of nature, a private little hell. You learned in your heart of hearts to fear death, because nobody else would ever do it for you. Without anybody who truly cared about your life, you correctly feared for your own survival on the deepest possible level – the level of the inner animal. And there is no morality for animals. No consideration. No conscience. No happiness. No right or wrong. There is only survival and reproduction. 'Good' becomes 'what is advantageous to me' and 'bad' becomes 'what hurts my interests'. You are thinking only of what is best for yourself. And your family line, if you have one. If you care about the fates of those around you, it is only because they affect your bottom line. Though I might be projecting some of my own past experiences onto you. Does any of what I said sound accurate?"
"It sounds correct thus far," he said, still evenly. "Excluding the bits about reproduction, at least in my case." Unless creating Mr. Potter counted as 'reproducing'… well, ignoring that complexity, the rest was a decent outline of his own mindset. And what would likely follow from that summary seemed obvious to him. "Do you consider self-interest evil?"
"No," she said in easy denial, to his surprise. "There is nothing wrong with self-interest. Like the fear of death, self-interest is natural. It helps ponies keep themselves fed, clean, and driven. It helps them to learn, to seek romance, to acquire resources that will eventually provide for their families. Self-interest only deserves a tirade when it devolves into narcissism, and even then-" she paused. "No, that is not the complex discussion I wanted to have."
So if that's not where she was taking this... "We're staying on the fear of death?"
"Yes," she answered. "Now we get to the difficult part. I know you will disagree to some extent, but please hear me out. On the day he lectured you about death, Dumbledore was tactically unwise- tactless to the extreme. But morally speaking… his worldview gave him predictive power, did it not?"
"Predictive power?" Riddle echoed. "What did he predict?"
"He predicted your dark actions if you continued to fear death, which is why he said what he did. Was his prediction inaccurate?"
"He was only right because his own lecture brought his fear to fruition."
She shook her head. "No. That might have been a critical moment, but ponies- beings do not suddenly become evil because they received a lecture they didn't like."
"I don't see why not," said Riddle. "Why shouldn't annoyance be all it takes?"
"For minor evils that don't require much depravity, a little theft here, a petty slander there, perhaps you have a point. But the level of rage and bitterness and fury that you described... the level that I could feel from the memory as I witnessed your past in the Astral Plane... that level of rage I have only ever seen arise from a very specific set of circumstances. A mere lecture is not enough. That was the straw that broke the earth pony's back, but there were many straws before that point."
"Such as?"
"Emotional neglect to start, but of course that is not enough. Neglect combined with the torture you received from Ms. Cole was also not enough. Neglect combined with torture and then she lies about it in public was also not enough. Neglect combined with torture and the abuser lies about it and nobody else cares about you... even all of that is not enough. The final straw is hypocrisy. Neglect, torture, lies, apathy, and the authorities are hypocritical. That is the unholy quintette required for a civilization that otherwise preaches good, modern values to produce an extremely evil individual, from what I have seen."
"Hitler and Grindelwald might beg to differ. Or the historians who study them, rather. I'm fairly certain they weren't significantly abused or neglected by their parents... though there's a rumor Grindelwald had bad experiences with muggles in his youth." Like himself, which is why he remembered that rumor, and gave it a bit of credence. And Hitler had been beaten by his father, but corporeal punishment had been standard practice in that time period.
Luna's eyebrows furrowed. "Human dark lords?"
"Yes."
"Were they personally involved in the evils they did? By which I mean did they commit direct murder themselves, or did they order it be done out of their line of sight?"
"I believe Hitler largely stuck to ordering others, though I could be wrong about that. Grindelwald was more personally involved."
Luna seemed to think for a time. "Neglect alone, combined with a few bad experiences, are sufficient for the 'ordering evil on a massive scale' scenario, I think. A lack of empathy combined with viewing one's enemies as literal vermin. Ask the Changelings for accounts of the far distant past, if they still have those accounts. Disgust can be far deadlier than hate. I suppose I should amend my statement. The unholy quintet produces extreme rage, not extreme evil per se. How someone reacts to that rage depends on them, and some beings react in ways that are more personally evil than the 'ordering evil' scenario, even if the consequences of rage are not as quantitatively dire as the consequences of war politics."
"Example?" he prompted.
"Well, extreme rage once caused a nurse to murder foal after foal in a way that was only eventually traced back to her. A few foals murdered by hoof is not as numerically bad as tens of thousands of dead griffons as a result of a civil war done for political purposes, but it requires a more damaged soul to bring about. Careful interrogation revealed the nurse did not hate the infants, she did it because she enjoyed the suffering of the parents when she delivered the news. It was no surprise to me that her own parents turned out to be monsters who, until that point, had been highly respected pillars of the community. Just as it was no surprise to me that Ms. Cole was a monster in private, while in public she was highly respected by the adults who visited the orphanage."
"And?"
Luna sighed. "And thus you became like the nurse. Personal evil that deviates significantly from societal norms requires more than just hypocrisy. It requires all the other components of the unholy quintet. Neglect, abuse, lies, nobody cares, and unbearable hypocrisy to top it all off. Dumbledore's lecture alone did not make you turn to evil. It was the final domino, which makes it easy to point to as the cause, but it was not the only cause. You became evil because you were surrounded by evil for an extended period of time in the earliest days and nights of your youth. And not just evil, but hypocritical evil. That is what truly brings out the deepest depths of rage, the black rule in all its unholy majesty. That is what gave you the potential to go extremely dark. It is the explosion trap waiting to be triggered. Great evils can be committed out of disgust, or even out of desperation, or being ordered at hornpoint. Even good ponies can do great evil if their foals are credibly threatened. But to experience glee as you murder a foal because you can't wait to torture their parents with the solemnly-delivered news is another beast entirely."
And that was when he finally saw the parallel between himself and the nurse. He had likely experienced glee as Aberforth was tortured into insanity because he couldn't wait until Dumbledore was informed. He had locked away the memory, he only knew the abstract, but he was fairly certain he had felt giddy.
Again, Riddle had nothing to say in refutation. Again, his instinct was to inquire. "What does this matter to me now?" he asked. "That is all in the past, not the present."
"Since you still think that way, it is the present, somewhat. The past is the present for you. Your mindset is the same. You still fear death, for instance."
"I do not," he declared firmly. "Now that I am sure of my immortality, I need no longer fear death."
"BUT. YOU. STILL. DO!" she said, stressing every word. "You do still fear death! Every day, and desperately!"
He opened his mouth, but found that he had nothing to say.
"Ms. Cole instilled the fear of death in you, and it is still with you. You have feared death all your life, regardless of circumstances, because of her. Even becoming immortal did not meliorate your mind. Your mental habits stayed the same. You simply moved on to averting the next threat, something nigh impossible to avert. And even if you somehow solved it you would have found another thing to fear, and another."
He blinked a few times. He had, in fact, already found another thing to fear after an eternity of boredom due to muggle stupidity – the manifold prophecies foretelling the end of the world.
"Even if that's the case," he allowed, "Ms. Cole's role in my life has long since passed. Neither you nor I can change the past."
She brought her hoof to her face, briefly. "Please do not insult the both of us with that pathetic excuse that comes from bad parents."
He frowned. "I wasn't excusing her. I meant I'd like something to do now. Other than reminiscing."
"Hold," she said, raising a hoof. "You are attempting to jump to solutions to avoid emotions. Again. Just like so many other petitioners." Luna took on a cadence. "OKAY, I GET THAT, WHAT DO I DO? Consciously or not, you are jumping past your emotions in search of a solution that does not involve feeling something. But there is no solution that does not involve feeling something."
"…Feeling what?"
"Anger is a good place to start," said Luna. "You felt it towards Ms. Cole in your youth many times. Now I am asking you to feel it towards Ms. Cole again. To relinquish your cynicism about 'the way of the world' and replace it with fresh, healthy anger. Remember how Ms. Cole's actions made you feel when you were little. That is what you can do now."
She's already dead, he thought. What's the point?
"That which we fail to criticize we generally become," Luna said, as if reading his mind and attempting to answer his question. And in a prescient way; it wasn't until he had comprehended and relentlessly criticized the stupidity of those around him that he was able to stop blindly imitating them. "Do you want to become like Ms. Cole?" Luna asked.
"No," he said, firmly and automatically, the word leaving his lips as soon as he heard the question. "She was arbitrary in her punishments, violent for the sake of being violent, and irrational to the extreme."
"Good," said Luna, seeming to grow calmer. "Good. That which we fail to criticize we generally become. That is why clear moral judgement on those around us is so essential, because otherwise we just turn into them. If we make excuses for others, especially the ones who raised us, we are bound to make excuses for those exact same behaviors when we do them. But I notice you have not said Ms. Cole was wrong. The language you use is important. You are still examining her in the realm of competence, not morality, and that is your final barrier. You must keep escalating your internal anger at Ms. Cole until you stop believing that emergency and evil and arbitrary violence is the only way of the world."
"I don't see how that works…"
"It works because anger is the immune system of the soul," Luna said importantly. "I mean, imagine your immune system went 'oh well, I have a virus, so I'm going to keep poking at it to see if that does anything,' so the virus keeps growing and spreading until it consumes you. If you have a virus, you want your immune system to keep escalating until it's bucking dead, right?"
"Right…" he said in cautious, tentative agreement.
Luna rarely cursed. And she was far more passionate than usual; like her petitions of old, not her calmness of the past few years.
"So get angry at Ms. Cole," Luna advised. "Anger is the immune system of the soul. Escalate your anger until you say to yourself that you will never be like her again. Forget higher thought for a moment. As sapient beings, we can intellectually grasp just about anything. You, especially, can wrap your mind around anything in the abstract. But abstraction isn't enough, and in fact it's part of the problem. You need to get this on a gut level or you will never change. That is what you should do now. Feel something." She paused. "Just don't let it tip into rage. Let your anger change you for the better. Do not let it consume you entirely and lead you to murder. Again."
That would be difficult, if it was even wise in the first place. He would have to unlearn his biggest life lesson of pretending to lose. The whole point is to let his anger become cold rage so that he can think clearly again, and so that when similar circumstances arise in the future, he can think logically, without a clouded mind. Getting hotly angry… would not be easy, and maybe not possible.
"Why are you only saying this now?" he asked. "And not back when I was showing you those memories?"
"Because you never asked for actionable steps, just for my opinion on what I was witnessing. I was afraid you would have rolled your eyes if I tried to give unsolicited advice."
He might have. "And if I say now that I don't think I could deliberately get angry? If I say that it wouldn't feel honest?"
The question gave Luna visible pause. "So… you would not get angry at being called a whoreson bastard?" she asked, referencing the insult Ms. Cole had been particularly proud of pioneering. "You would not get angry at being called a bloody blighter, a creepy cur, a stupid snake-"
"Stop."
Luna stopped.
Riddle would not have expected to feel so… not angry, but diminished and sluggish. And also tense. Adrenalised. Activated. He didn't know how he could possibly feel both of those at the same time, the two emotional directions were seemingly at odds with each other, but that's what his habitual self-awareness was telling him. All in the face of such old and tired insults, invented by a woman long dead.
"Stop," he repeated, even though Luna already had. He tried to re-center himself.
"I am sorry," said Luna. "I will never say any of that to you again without your express permission. That is a promise. But now do you still think you will have trouble getting angry?"
"I was not getting angry," he said, still trying to recover his calm.
"And why not?" she asked. "Those are terrible things to say to an adult, let alone a foal. Why not get angry at them?"
"There wouldn't be a point."
"Is that what you believe, or what Ms. Cole wants you to believe?"
He paused. "How could she want anything at this point in time?"
"The dead can still want things. Most of the dead want not to be forgotten, and they want good legacies, thus they do not wish to be spoken ill of. But if you disagree with that perspective, then simply think of it like a plot. When you were young, who benefits if you do not get angry? Who might have intended for you to believe that there's no point in getting hotly, openly angry?"
Put that way…
"Ms. Cole," he said the obvious answer, seeing it right away. "My anger made her life more difficult. She preferred a helpless lump who sat there and took it."
"Precisely," said Luna. "Precisely. That is why the insults still bring you discomfort even now. They are some of the earliest forms of manipulation you still remember experiencing. Ms. Cole trained you to suppress your rage at her hypocrisy, which is why it only fully returned in the face of Dumbledore's. But your problem is two-fold, I think. Not only is the inner-voice of Ms. Cole telling you there's no point in getting angry at her, there's the additional difficulty of becoming angry in the first place. Do you still have the capacity to get angry at the thought of what Ms. Cole said and did to you?"
"…I don't think so."
"Do you know why?"
"Because I grew up."
"No," she said. "That answer is imprecise, you can't use it for anything. My own suspicion, and correct me if this sounds wrong, is that at some point you internalized her insults. You accepted them so that you would not upset Ms. Cole and make her even worse by arguing. You can still get angry at Dumbledore because you know in your bones that he is hypocritical about the afterlife, that he is utterly and completely wrong. But Ms. Cole?" Her voice acquired a tinge of rhetorical effect. "What's there to be angry about? She was right about you, wasn't she?"
The answers of 'No' and 'Yes' both arose, one as an impulse to speak, the other as an impulse to honesty from the back of his mind, eliminating each other and leaving him with an open mouth and no voice. She was wrong about stupid, right about snake. Wrong about whoreson, right about bastard. It was like that for most of her insults.
"Not that I think she was right," said Luna, "but that's what I think was going on in your subconscious. So in order to get angry at Ms. Cole again, you will have to know in your bones that what she said isn't true. Which, to be fair, might take a while, given what you did in your adult life. Maybe you should start by knowing in your bones that the insults were not true in the past." Her gaze intensified. "They. Were. Not. True. Not when you were five. Most of it was just projection on her part."
He just stared for a while. "And what of Dumbledore?" he asked, even knowing he was evading the main issue. "Should I stay angry at him?"
"Not even a fraction as much as you should be angry at Ms. Cole," said Luna. "He had the opportunity to coldly manipulate you, did you know? He could have forced you to swear a highly restrictive Vow before introducing you to his mentor, which you would have accepted in your desperation to avoid death, then hated afterwards, for even with a letter of recommendation, 'Flamel' would have rejected you, Dumbledore could not be blamed for that, and then you would be bound by the Vow forevermore, powerless to seek retribution or immortality on your own terms."
He blinked a few times. He had never thought of that possibility.
"However," Luna continued, "I do not think the thought even occur to him, and I do not believe he would have acted on it even if it had, and not for monetary reasons either. I will allow you to decide if he deserves moral praise or condemnation for leaving your free will untouched."
Riddle frowned. Most moralists would say Dumbledore would deserve condemnation, right? He himself is certainly glad it didn't happen, and he disagrees with moralists on most issues...
"Of the options available to Dumbledore," Luna continued, "alleviating your deepest fears was not one of them. Not unless he did what I am trying to do, but while he is largely good himself, I do not think he has the knack for redeeming evil. And even if he did have that knack, it would have taken years to make true progress. Redeeming overwhelming evil in others is a fool's errand."
"Did you not just call yourself a fool?"
She smiled. "I never said I was not a fool, my fool. Trying to redeem you is foolish beyond measure. The few good ponies who are actually capable of doing this often have jobs to do and friendships to maintain and family to love and support. Even for those of us with time and resources, it is incredibly unwise to stake future satisfaction on the progress of others. Both for the obvious reason, and because it gets in the way of success. When others can tell that you are desperate for them to improve, it gives them power over you, and most bad ponies can't handle that kind of power. Though it may seem contradictory, in order to see success I must not place too much personal vestment in any one pony or project, which is why my Vow includes the clause that I am no longer bound to help if you stop trying to improve."
It does? He must have forgotten that part. Or more likely, he didn't try to remember it. He had been far more focused on how her Vow interacted with his secrets, on the (at-the-time) off-chance he decided to share some of his past with her.
"Ironically," Luna continued, "the task of helping others can become impossible when personal feelings are involved. That's the real killer, caring about others more than they care for themselves."
If only she knew. Mr. Potter's decision to care about Ms. Granger more than most people are capable of caring for themselves triggered the telling of a prophecy that stated he would destroy the world in one way or another.
"If that's really the case," said Riddle, "would it be accurate to say that most of your interactions with me to date have been incredibly unwise and likely to fail?"
"Based purely on general advice, yes," said Luna. "On the whole, I've been incredibly foolish, not just for undertaking the task to help you in the first place, but for doing it when I was already so personally involved. I say in all seriousness that the Vow I took before I knew the full extent of the problem could have led to my death or despair, even with the most important opt-out clause in place. It's a miracle things have gone as well as they have. I think it's only because we've both devoted our full faculties to the task, and because we've been blessed with great heap of Harmony-given luck. And in any case," Luna said, seemingly fed up with tangents. "It was not Dumbledore's responsibility to do for you what I am doing. And it's not quite my responsibility either. It's yours. I can show you the map so that you are no longer blind to certain things. I can be the mirror by which you see yourself in ways you never did before. But I cannot walk your journey for you, and I cannot change what's in your reflection. That much has always been up to you."
Riddle considered that... then decided he was also done with tangents.
"But Dumbledore could have still attempted to help on practical grounds," he pointed out. Rather than condemn me with hypocritical moralizing. "He could have introduced me to Flamel, or at least taught me alchemy. It may not have been his responsibility to help me, but it certainly wasn't his responsibility to spurn me."
Luna sighed. "Suppose Dumbledore did take the simple path of giving you practical help. Suppose he somehow guided you towards what you wanted. Suppose you made it all the way to ageless immortality. A Stone of your own. Ignore the impossibility for a moment and just take the hypothetical at face value. Would past-you have been content with that?"
The thought experiment gave him pause.
And then his mind gave him the answer. "No," he said honestly. "The Stone does not block a killing curse."
"That's what I thought," said Luna. "Dumbledore had the wisdom to notice your red flags, but he had the shortsightedness, the lack of wisdom, the sheer gall to address those red flags in one of the laziest ways possible: a relatively brief and highly condescending lecture."
Riddle chuckled at that.
"Dumbledore did not seek to listen to your perspective or understand it until after it had gone so greatly wrong, until necessity forced him to attempt to comprehend the mind of his enemy. But your red flags were real when you went to him," Luna said with strong emphasis, "and they were indicative of a deeper darkness. Intelligent beings whose minds have been permanently scarred by an extended stay in a state of nature, especially during childhood… they tend to have the 'anything goes' attitude. Up to and including murder, if they are powerful enough to get away with it. Normal morality does not factor, only what they think they can get away with, and what their sense of disgust can tolerate. And a fear of death is a common warning sign to this mindset. Your professor knew this on some level, though he did a terrible job articulating it."
Riddle chuckled again, despite where this was going.
"Dumbledore may have been a contributing factor," Luna said in tones of conclusion, "but he was not the root cause of your life's journey. The greatest factor is your early foalhood. Was it Dumbledore whose violence made you fear for your life every day? Was it Dumbledore who caused you to hide in that closet, and beat your head on the frame for the inconvenience of making her search? Was it Dumbledore who demeaned you day in and day out?"
Again, that feeling of depression, even though Luna was just going over the abstract this time.
"Get angry at Ms. Cole for inflicting that upon you," Luna advised. "Keep escalating that anger until you know in your gut that it is. Not. NORMAL! Violence and spite and ridicule hidden by a two-faced smile in public is not the only way of the world, it is not how foalhoods should go. Get angry at Ms. Cole for the fact that you, and the other orphans, had terrible foalhoods."
"Childhoods," he corrected absently. Other than that, Riddle stayed silent for a long time.
It sounded convincing, and not because she said it with a great deal of confidence and honesty.
There are primarily two kinds of people who speak with conviction: charismatic idiots and experienced experts, or some combination of the two, and Luna has already proven herself in that regard. If he probed her, or pushed back, as he's done many times in this conversation alone, she would convey the same concept in a thousand different ways. She would apply her competence to a thousand different situations, with slight adjustments based on circumstance. That is the mark of expertise, not idiocy. Idiocy is rote memorization of a line. Competence is calibration to context.
He gave an internal sigh as he realized he would yet again be trusting her advise until it failed to yield substantial results.
"I understand," he said at last, though he did not say he agreed because he wasn't quite sure if he did, and he did not say that he would do as she says because he wasn't quite sure if he could. "What I do not understand is how my fear of death makes me more animal than man."
"Oh that is relatively simple," said Luna. "When a being fears for their life, they have little free will. There might be skill involved, and planning, and experience, but not much choice. Their genes tell them to do it, so they do it. Hungry? Get food. Scared? Flee. It's all very… instinctual."
"I am not controlled by my instincts."
She grew more animated again. "Yes, because you are sapient! Intelligent beings are different. We have the ability to rise above our instincts. Free will is our capacity to deliberately act against our immediate interests, to act against our base desires by modeling the future within our minds. Free will is our ability to delay gratification and choose the best action we can see. That is half of the equation to free will. But you are already capable of that, so let us focus on the other half, the half that matters most to morality, the half that can never exist in a state of nature. It is the part of free will that truly makes us more than animals, and cannot exist when desperate fear of death is at the mind's forefront. You lack the free will to… no, let us say you lack the capacity to respect the free wills of others. Mutual respect of another's free will, without violence or dominance or force or manipulation…" she trailed off, then nodded firmly.
"That is what it truly means to be a pony," she declaimed. "Or a griffon, or a dragon, or a human. To possess a free will that respects the free wills of others." Her voice, mane, and body became brighter. "To possess a free will that takes others into account both for their sake and yours. To possess a free will that is considerate to those who are themselves considerate as a matter of course, as a habit deeply engrained into your soul. And to possess a free will that seeks to surround itself by others who feel the same way. THAT is life beyond nature, beyond the fear of death. THAT is a life that leads to happiness beyond measure!"
As she finished speaking, her mane flared in a meteor shower. And then she looked at him in such a way that expected, or perhaps hoped for understanding.
Stats
Page generated in 0.023 seconds
Total duration
807 users online
986,394 hits today, 1,960,719 yesterday
FIMFiction
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Fanfiction
Designed and coded by knighty & Xaquseg - © 2011-2024
Follow & Support Us
Support us
SubStar
Chat!
Discord
Follow us
Twitter
MLP: Friendship is Magic® - © 2024 Hasbro Inc.®
Fimfiction is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Hasbro Inc.®
Ooh, new chapter! Been looking forwards to this!
Typo: caring MORE about others than they care for themselves.
What do you mean by "This is the halfway point through the broccoli"?
This is one of the best redemption chapters yet. More than any other chapter, this is where I truly feel that his redemption is- possible isn't the right word, I believe anyone can be redeemed in theory, but this is the first time it's felt like he's taken the first step. The Riddle at the beginning of this chapter was still the man who was Voldemort, and I think the Riddle at the end of this chapter is qualitatively different.
I also love your characterization of him as inquiring when he wants to disagree with a point but can't logically- it feels like he's got an instinct to try and acquire ammunition to argue with, even though he's gotten over the habit (somewhat) of actually arguing himself out of things. It's incredibly well-handled.
I'm not sure how much of the science is accurate- I recognize many of the individual cases you discuss, but I don't know about enough studies beyond anecdotal evidence to support the general patterns you present, both in cause of evil and how to overcome it. Is this accepted science, or is it your interpretation? Either way it makes for a good story, it's just something I'd like to know.
And something you said here is my personal standard for dealing with people. A quality that if they have, I'll (almost) never give up on them unless it's necessary; and if they don't, I'll have a really hard time dealing with them. That quality is willingness to improve. If someone is willing to improve themselves, willing to look in the mirror and see their flaws and work to get better, I'll tolerate almost anything as long as it's actively being worked on. And if they aren't willing to improve, well, I'm a lot less willing to tolerate anything at all.
... as hard as it is to say,
As Someone who was badly abused in childhood,
on a daily basis...
I can confirm, my own therapist taught me to acknowledge my anger at my abuser, to acknowledge that they were evil, and what they did to me was wrong. My siblings don't like hearing me say I hate our abuser... they still make excuses for them... but strangely, according to my therapist, by acknowledging their evil, acknowledging my hate, and my refusal to become an abuser myself... means I'm more emotionally stable, and better adjusted then most of my siblings
I should probably pick up a copy of Darkest Dungeon at some point
11483695
Yeah, lots of typos in this one as a result of heavy editing. I do one final sweep immediately AFTER the chapter is posted. Hopefully it's cleaned up now.
And I wouldn't call much of this 'science' exactly, unless you're talking about the evolutionary stuff. Much of the rehabilitation is much more up the alley of talk therapy and self-knowledge. And much of THAT field, and psychology in general, is filled with psuedo-science garbage and scammers, and most people just see what they want to see when exploring it. Like the old cynical statement that there are so many contradictory passages in the bible that you can find a quote supporting just about any moral stance.
The best I can do is try to find the self-knowledge advisements that (a) are the most helpful for modeling your own mind and making improvements and (b) grant predictive power. So far, that seems to be (a) if you're engaging in self-destructive behaviour, ask who benefits (note: if it's not somebody in your immediate environment, it's probably your parents, though it's equally probable that it'll be hard for YOU to see HOW they could possibly benefit), and (b) the best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior. That's about as 'rational' as the field gets.
I have to be careful enough when describing 'inner voices' without sounding like some idiot 'guru'. Yudkowsky played it off as comedy and a plot device with Harry's inner voices, at least at first, and people are more willing to suspend disbelief for comedy. But to take the concept 100% seriously, with no comedy at all, to say just about everybody has them, and to say inner-models of others (especially authorities from childhood) are often prime drivers for behavior, NOT free will... and in fact to say that free will is a thing in the first place... most of that often doesn't go over well with certain types of people who view themselves as 'rational'. Not least because how the heck are you supposed to quantify it numerically and make a scientific study about it?
11483729
Not quite sure I understand what that last paragraph is in reference to, or exactly what it's saying- specifically the part regarding free will. From what I've seen, the general consensus in rational communities regarding free will is that free will is too ill-defined a concept to be able to be meaningfully talked about, and attempts to more strictly define it make it trivially obvious that we have it or trivially obvious that not only do we not have it but it's impossible for anything to have it. I also think quantifying numerically isn't- well, maybe for some people, but in general quantifying numerically isn't necessary to be rational, but it is necessary to be able to have a reason to say "this is more than just anecdotal evidence and there's reason to believe it applies to the general case, not just to these specific cases", and I think that often requests for proof-of-generalizability can be seen as requests for quantifying-numerically, when they aren't necessarily the same thing.
And what do you mean about halfway through the broccoli?
11483720
Exactly correct. A hundred Luna points to you.
In all seriousness, what you just described is precisely the sort of thing I'm trying to address with this story. And great job.
11483737
Hm, maybe I've just been walking in the wrong 'rational' circles than, or making mental straw-men of the opposing arguments.
As for the broccoli, the author's note at the start of this long conversation with Luna - which was once a single chapter, but was split up for easier digestion - referred to it as the broccoli of the rehabilitation. We're now half-way through it. Or more than half-way, actually.
11483744
You originally referred to "certain types of people who view themselves as rational", and I hardly doubt that what you said did apply to such people, and I've seen similar arguments myself, so I don't think it's a strawman. I was just saying that it's either a minority position among rationalists, or at the very least if it's not a minority position then it's far from the only position.
Well ...
I had a little trouble understanding Luna's points so far this segment. Until this chapter.
Now? I can see in Luna's comments what my therapist has been trying to get me to understand, dealing with my own anger / rage over mistreatment.
This. This is, essentially, what my Therapist has told me to do -- turn how I was treated from "I am someone who has been wronged by xxx" into "this is how I feel about how I was mistreated" -- without letting it become anger-fueled rage and aggression.
This. This is what I went through for 5 months, combined with a loss of "home community". And discovering that people I thought were friends were not ("I trust him by default, and I don't trust you").
11483695
It fits with, and is consistent with, everything my therapist is trying to get me to understand and change internally in me.
And this can start as simple as the person/people in charge operating from "blame the other person, refuse to talk to them, just assign them whatever you feel is proper, declare that you've done everything possible to solve the problem they have that you created when you have done nothing to solve it and have refused to listen to them". All because this lets you have fun and you don't care about the other person not having fun, while you insist that it's all about making sure everyone has fun; locking one person out while insisting it's all about letting everyone play. And then lying to everyone else while refusing to let the harmed person even speak.
And ... just like with Riddle, it's not this last thing, as bad as it was -- it was all the stuff before that as well.
11483758
To be fully honest, the previous two rehab chapters were feeling a bit preachy to me, too, so I changed course. This chapter used to be less than half as long, and it didn't cover the elements of self-help I'd seen that actually work, the elements you're quoting. I had to go back to the source material and re-format the conversation to be more similar to kinds of conversations it's actually supposed to emulate. Never been to therapy myself, but that source material is basically the same thing, except publicly available for others to witness and learn from, and everyone knows that going in.
The only problem NOW is that I feel like a dirty plagiarizer, even if I'm using spoken words from a podcast, not written work, and even IF I made plenty of adjustments based on context. But if your comment is anything to go on, the podcast host himself is borrowing the advice he gives others from his own therapist, so whatever.
Halfway through the broccoli?
But, Broccoli is a fractal, how can you tell youre halfway through it when yore focused on the detail?
The prediction thing for free will is very intrsting because it seems to be related to size of network. the bigger the net the greater the temporal stride in looking at data? Like the difference in current predicted sequencing wher they can just about handle quads, what is the next word given the previous three in a sequence, and I was looking at a different metho which was more processing but less meory and so could stride far greater depths not just linearly by also accepted the possibility of sparse strides, equivalent to what if scenarios? But Ive been slapped down enough that trying to actually code anything working, never mind worthwhile, makes me ill.
Ponies know WWII history?
How'd she know?
11484373
I actually haven't seen much of the show but I guess that's right. When I read it I was kinda suprised though cause I was like "wait they've been sending letters and stuff when they could just use the phone the whole time??"
The technology of Equestria is all over the place. Some places are barely above pony-pulled trains; others have vacuum-tube (or transistor) required recording heads. You have everything from magic-tech to hydro-power, complete with transmission lines and voltage converters.
It's almost like there's hundreds of different tech-time periods, all unchanging, removed from time or something ... wait a sec ...
I really wish this fic got more views. Because this is the type of story that can help millions of people who otherwise wouldn't get into contact with the concepts mentioned in this story. It has already made me question my way of approaching things on multiple occasions.
11487894
It'll probably get a view bump once I promote it on the HPMoR subreddit, but I'm waiting until it's finished, or near-finished, before doing that. The current count is almost entirely the result of people clicking on it from the home fimfiction menu, and a small number of people I've interacted with directly on reddit. At the end of the day, the current view count is a consequence of writing a niche-appeal story. Fanfics of other fanfics have a tendency not to perform well in viewership statistics, no matter how high the quality. I knew that from personal experience long before posting this story. I'm frankly surprised it's gotten as many views as it has.
And thank you. From my perspective that's just about the highest praise you could have given, even moreso than those who say my stories result in binge-reading sessions and involuntary all-nighters. I called these chapters the broccoli of the story out of habitual self-doubting pessimism. But if I were a self-esteemed optimist, I'd call this chapter in particular the heart/soul of the story. As other comments have pointed out, this is close to what you'll get from the very best talk therapists, and I've never seen a fictional story tackle that, so I set out to do it myself.
>> Neglect, torture, lies, apathy, and the authorities are hypocritical. That is the unholy quintette required for a civilization that otherwise preaches good, modern values to produce an extremely evil individual, from what I have seen.
Interesting. You've crafted a complete set, not just of opposites, but of active oppositions to the Elements of Harmony:
- Lies: Honesty
- Torture: Kindness
- Neglect: Generosity
- Apathy: Laughter
- Hypocrisy from authority: Loyalty
Did you do this on purpose?
11489213
I did not do that on purpose. I didn't even realize it until you pointed it out. A lot of Luna's perspectives, especially in this chapter, are paraphrased or even directly quoted from a certain source ('immune system of the soul' being a prime example of a direct quote, but also that particular quintette), and I'm fairly certain that source did not have MLP's Elements of Harmony in mind when discussing the prerequisites of truly deep rage.
Sometimes, the best symbolism is the result of accident and coincidence.
11489213
This. Is. *Dead-on*.
Now, element number 6. Twilight's element is forgiveness / another chance. The opposite of that is "no second chances" / "you are permanently 'evil' " -- which is exactly how Tom/Voldemort was treated by Dumbledore / et. al.
11488657
In general? Maybe.
As a good counter example: Friendship is Optimal got a massive boost, and a massive increase in awareness, once a major AI person read it and posted it in their blog.
I think this story will go really well in the MoR community, once you get past the rehab chapters, and get them re-ordered to how you want them.
(Maybe get someone besides me to do proof reading? I must have missed some, I'm not finding any problems lately.)
11490068
That’s not a fanfic of a fanfic though, it’s a series of fanfics grouped together by different authors. The nature of this site makes fanfics of fanfics specifically intra-site more feasible than on other sites. This story will never go on HPMOR.com for example, and never be linked to near the bottom of the story on fanfic.net.
11483840
I can place a limit on the range of volume the broccoli can take up, and get that limit reasonably tight on both ends. Then, even if I don't have the exact size, I have a good approximation, and can tell when I've gone through half.
Or, I could take a knife, cut it in two, and weight the two pieces. If they're close in weight, I know when I've eaten half.
11490302
Why not ask for it to be linked from those other places?
The fundamental idea here: The ancient "atlanteans" that created whatever it was that processes magic? That looks for the genes that say "you can use magic"? That took themselves out of space and time? The ancestors of the ponies. Whether they started as ponies, or changed their form to ponies because of their god-views, these are their descendants now.
(Remember, poseidon was the god of water, earthquakes, and ponies/horses. Between earth-power ponies, winged messengers of the gods, and raw magic using ponies? Maybe they found that a workable solution was to break things up so no one had enough power to destroy the world?)
The fundamental idea: These two, diametrically opposed people, are stuck in a world where they find a civilization that *survived this because of changes*, including eliminating child abuse and over 1,000 years of letting the bad die off and the good propagate. Where the solution to "magic destroying the world" was to make a world where magic's power/ability was slightly different -- using the power of the mirror for that.
What was the fundamental disagreement going in? Neither really understood the other's point of view.
It took 11 year old Harry one year; it took 70 year old Tom 35 years.
The characterizations of them is better than I've seen in any other continuation that was more than a single chapter / alternate ending (I was not happy with Significant Digits, not at all).
11490476
This website links related fics automatically. For the others to do it would basically require Yudkowsky to endorse it as the official sequel, which it isn't, especially given that it doesn't even continue from where he left off, and is instead a point of departure.
11490067
I’ve found everyone has a different idea of how to interpret Twilight’s Sixth Element of Magic And/Or Friendship, and sometimes Sunset Shimmer is given a Seventh Element along your lines in fanfics. You do you.
I’ve been interpreting it as Involvement: friendships wither if there’s no contact or updates, if there are no further shared events. In that light, I see the sixth Element of Abuse as Destruction, or as TV Tropes would phrase it, “Fuck You In Particular.” The abuser does their best to involve themselves in the abused’s life in a way which destroys agency, self-esteem, and even the potential for power.
11489287
I don’t think it’s just coincidence or parallel symbolism. I’ve been living my life using the Elements of Harmony as my primary guide for relationships for over ten years now, and I honestly believe the show crew had deeply profound insights into relationships.
I’ve found the same insights in a couple of other places too. The most startling was what I call the “Seeds of Discord” in I Peter 2:1 in the New Testament: “So rid yourselves of all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all slander.” Here, instead of abuse which creates monsters as in your text, there are five selfish oppositions to the Elements which break friendships and break up groups; I call them the Seeds of Discord in reference to S4E1-2. They oppose Kindness, Honesty, Loyalty, Generosity, and Laughter, respectively.
I also see the Elements reflected in the best-selling Five Languages of Love books and counseling system: how people receive expressions of the Elements: Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, Acts of Service, and Physical Touch. (All were withheld from Tom Riddle, in addition to the active abuse put upon him.) As one psychology scientist puts it, they are “principal value systems by which individuals communicate and anticipate expression of affection.” That author wrote this paper which has an extensive bibliography including other papers on the love languages: https://www.millersville.edu/psychology/files/bland/bland-lovelanguages.pdf
Uh...it's disputed if Hitler's father was abusive (he seems to have been an alcoholic) & how much that contributed to his later behavior.
A very deep chapter, reminds me of America and Russian state of affairs.
As a Canadian, I tend to say 'sorry' on reflex. Kind of hard for me to take that sort of thing as an oath when it's said to me