Hey, this is Conrad. I heard you guys were calling bullshit, so I'll take a moment to pause and explain to you what happened.
I honestly think that it is bullshit, myself, that King Sombra was able to take what Equestria considers the equivalent of a wave motion gun, and not only survive, but also use it to heal himself. I talked to Celestia about it later, and she explained it to me like this: The Elements are able to do a lot of things, but in the end, they are tools that can harness the innate harmony within a group of ponies to do things. If those ponies are friends or family who get along well, the elements have a lot of power. If they're not, then the power is diminished to almost pathetic levels. Regardless, they're objects, with no intellect of their own. They're like a sort of primitive computer system: They can follow instructions, but you have to know how they're programmed, or else you're going to end up getting a critical error sooner or later.
And that lack of self-motivation can be a very big problem: A thousand years ago, Celestia used the elements to banish her sister to the moon because Luna turned psycho, but those same elements fixed Luna one thousand years later. That being said, why didn't they just fix her one thousand years ago? Simple: Celestia didn't think of using their power that way in the past. Not her fault: She was being attacked by her sister, and had just taken a serious magical beating before she whipped out the elements. She wasn't thinking clearly, and the elements only did as they were instructed. Twilight and her friends, meanwhile, having no idea what the elements could do, basically told the relics 'Do something', and the relics did the easiest thing possible: They removed Luna's dark magic. When given no clear instructions, the elements take the path of least resistance.
That was why the Elements of Harmony didn't do anything to me when they were used: There was nothing there to 'fix'. I'm an emotionally balanced guy, and while I may have been inhabiting a total D-Bag, my being at the wheel was regarded as a good thing. If Twilight and her friends had given the elements a clear command, I might have been in trouble, but instead, they did nothing, since they didn't detect anything wrong with me.
However, that 'Do Something' command that Twilight and her friends kept relying on can be a major weakness, and it was one that Sombra was fully aware of. Without a very clear instruction of what they needed to do, the Elements of Harmony will do whatever is simplest to fix the problem they are used to solve. Twilight and her friends had told the elements to do something to Sombra, but each one had different ideas about what stopping him meant: Pinkie Pie just wanted him to quit being a meanie, Fluttershy wanted him to go away, Rarity wanted him to be turned to stone, Rainbow Dash wanted his head to explode, Applejack wanted him banished to someplace unpleasant, and Twilight had wanted him to be turned into an Earth Pony, so he'd never be able to use magic to hurt others again. Had even just two of them had the same idea, the fight might have gone much, much differently...
But since they were divided in intent, this allowed Sombra an opening to manipulate the power of harmony. The barrier that Sombra had created for this purpose is actually quite weak. Absurdly weak, in fact, lessening the Element's attack by an almost infinitesimal amount, unless the elements do the one specific thing that Sombra wanted them to do. In this case, that was heal the tyrant's broken body. So, like water flowing downhill through a channel dug in a sand dune, the elements were 'guided' into the one channel that benefited Sombra the most. For almost anyone else, it wouldn't have worked, but Sombra is a tyrant: Tyrants are all about 'Harmony', it is just that their definition happens to be 'Everyone doing what I tell them to'. Love and hope could kill Sombra, but as long as he had a clear intention for their power, and his enemies did not, then the Elements of Harmony could be used in his favor. Celestia and Luna had learned this after multiple confrontations with the tyrant: From what I've gathered from the two of them, the Crystal Empire battle wasn't the first time that the royal sisters had fought Sombra, just the first one where they didn't open with the Elements...
However, while it was 'simple' to heal Sombra, it required a lot of power because of how severe the damage to his body was. And once unleashed, the elements don't stop until the job is done. That was why Twilight and her friends were drained of stamina in the aftermath of the incident.
In summary, that's why Sombra's barrier, in spite of the king being greatly weakened, was able to use the power of one of the strongest sets of magical artifacts in existence to heal himself, instead of being blasted to atoms, and nearly killed Twilight and her friends in the process.
Like I said, I think it's bullshit, but Sombra was an expert when it came to how the elements worked, while Twilight and her friends were novices. Had Celestia just sat Twilight and her friends down one day and explained how they could best be used...
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.
Moving back to the subject at hand, that's the best explanation I ever got that I could understand. I tried asking Twi once, but her version was so dry, technical, and boring that I fell asleep within fifteen minutes of the explanation. She continued for three hours before she realized I was snoring. Lovely girl, but when she talks shop...
Well, that's enough for this particular tangent. We're in the middle of a story here, people!
A little something up!
5569984
At first I was like "YES! SURPRISE CHAPTER!"
But then I was like, "Poo, just an explanation for something I didn't even have the slightest problem with."
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Sorry. There'll be a chapter next time. I just wanted to put something official on the story so that the neigh-sayers would let up.
Well, maybe this will get people to shut up. Especially so because THIS ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE.
Love the story!!!!!! Have a smile.
Not sure this warranted a fourth wall breaking mini-chapter (since I more or less figured that this was going to actually be explained in the context of the story itself), but hay. Worldbuilding.
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So if Rainbow's suggestion of 'make his head explode' won out, do you think it'd have been this disturbing explosion or just a faint sound of 'pop' like bubble wrap and then the rest of him falling over with everything from the neck up just 'poof'.
5570013
It would have exploded, then come back together again: Sombra was technically just a corpse held together with willpower. Putting his head back together a second time would be no more difficult than the first.
Conrad can break the fourth wall?!
SPECTACULAR reasoning and explination of HOW the EoH actually work. ALSO, explains as to WHY the main 6 are practiily NEVER told of HOW they work! It is VERY unwise to let the tool chest/attack dogs know how it does what it does and unneccessary as well, a tool/attack dog is supposed to do its job not ask questions
i like this, i was wondering why they didnt work. i just assumed they didnt work because Reasons
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See, I still fundamentally disagree with Sombra being able to negate the Elements. Like Conrad says, it's bullshit. No matter how much explanation is given, it's still bullshit.
This wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if it wasn't that the Elements have a canon weakness that's so easy to exploit: all of the Mane 6 have to be together for it to work. It would've been significantly easier and funnier if the Elements failed because (for example) Fluttershy ran off to cuddle with the puppies or something. All of this bullshit could be so easily avoided.
I have one minor and one major concern about the last chapter and a half. Which has nothing to do with the explanation provided.
Minor concern: Why do they have the elements of Harmony at all? If this is after Tireks return they would have been returned to the tree of harmony.
Major Concern: Why did Conrad order the obvious target of Sombra's wrath to leave? She was obviously safer with him and he only assigned one non-soldier changeling to guard her. It was a spectacularly stupid move on the part of someone who, up till now, has been fairly level headed.
Totally Legit!
Normally a chapter like this would annoy me, but seeing as that it's in character I let it slide.
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True... but then she's actually shown to be feeding power to Shining Armor, based on their shared love, which he uses to make a shield. Also, she's able to use the Crystal Heart against Sombra, which certainly implies some degree of using love as a battery,
Alicorns make the most sense if they derive power from their "element" in some way, because every other powerful magic entity seems to.
Note that when changelings feed on love the love disappears... but when windigos feed on hatred, the hatred remains until the pony is frozen solid, and when Sirens feed on disharmony, the disharmony remains. Changelings seem to be the only entities who literally feed on an emotion and thus consume it in the process, but Sirens, windigos, and the Elements of Harmony all draw power from an emotion without destroying it -- in fact they amplify it. Cadance shows every sign of working the same way.
5570054
Minor: Chapter Six, the girls pulled the elements out of the tree, since they needed to have a way to stop Tirek, and they don't yet know how to call upon the Rainbow Power at will.
Major: Conrad had expected Sombra to be outside with his soldiers, and if Sombra's objective had been to kill Skyflower like he'd believed, then being out in the open would have been an invitation for Sombra to snipe her. Instead, he commanded that she be taken by the one trustworthy person he knew to the most secure area in the hive, the royal bedroom (Royal bedrooms have a lot of security to them, including thick doors with strong locks). He had no idea that Sombra could teleport, or that he'd have already started searching the hive for his target.
5570036 Sounds like the Military, paid to DO not to Think.
5570054
They ripped the elements from the Tree of Harmony... Twilight didn't even bother to ask Celestia if it was a good idea. they were just going off half cocked again.
an interesting idea and makes the elements no longer a "i win button". Again you impress Bucking Nonsense but one day you will fuck up one of these story's and then....the dreaded stuff will happen mark my words.
5570054
Level headed does not mean hes a Uber strategist, common sense dictates that you get the MVPs away from the conflict. Only those who are skilled in strategic thinking would consider the attack was a diversion.
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Sombra's would be too if it wasn't for them having different ideas on what to do.
I have stolen this idea. Catch me if you can!
i like this. i didn't have a problem with sombra defeating the EoH but its still nice to see an explanation.
A simple enough explanation. But I have one question about something slightly related: What about the Tree itself? Can't Sombra just use a magic mortar of some sort to blow it to smithereens at this point?
5570054 There was a scene featuring Twi and pals fetching the elements. As for sending them away, well, he thought he was going out to fight him didn't he? He didn't know Sombra would just bypass him completely. I think.
-Exodia, we're done here.
Given that nuclear launch silos only need two people to be in the same line of thought and turn the key together, then needing Six people to be in harmony means they expect the overall power to be that much exponentially greater. when in Harmony.
I cant remember where my computer simulation of this effect is, it was done in the late 90s on a machine that totally wasnt a PC. It was 20% faster.
5570054
they took them outta the tree. Twilight pulling a Twilight.
5570082 Hold on did you just make this chapter out of viewer pressure? Do you think this is proper?
Props for not hand-waiving this. Double props for making dry exposition interesting.
5570084 problem is that sooner or later they'll walk into a glass door and without the knowledge of glass doors or the capasity for structured thought and problem solving = nothing good
Wait... who told you people were calling bullshit? Was is Discord? Pinkie? Dammit you two! We told you to leave the 4th Wall Alone! Do you know how much a contractor costs? Insurance doesn't cover it any more! (And our premiums were already shot to hell...)
Anyway; seems legit. Next time, do a quick group huddle and vote on what happens. And Twilight? Shame on you. How dare you not read the user manual! At least force the previous users of the hand-me-down Magical Artifacts of [Potential] Cosmic Power to give you the Cole's Notes of previous errors and glitches!
I like it. Things like this are never discussed in the show or even most of the fanfics I read, so hearing your thoughts on how they work was pretty fun.
5570145 Simple, he doesn't know where it is.
That explains a few things, though it did crash my hopes of another chapter so quickly. Looking forward to more.
Keep up the good work. Deus tecum.
I like an explanation as much as the next guy (especially to put off the neigh (lol) Sayers and widen the story's universe) but in all due respect people have to understand that this is the author's story and that the author can do what he pleases because it is HIS. Yes i understand that an author should be courteous to his fan base and make the story as engaging and entertaining as possible. BUT once again it is his, he has no obligation to make the story YOU want or the universe YOU want for all he cares he could make the story where all the Mane six were cantaloupes and the houses are made of waffles, or he could stop all together!
From what i can tell the author is a very kind person and only wishes to make fun things for people to read and id rather not hear about people complaining about his work just because they don't like it or its not what they would have chosen.
And that's all i have to say on the matter.
Oooooo-kayyyyyyy, this raises far more questions than it answers. The four most troubling are:
1. Why did the Elements work on Discord then, if the Bearers happened to not all be wanting to punish Discord the same way? For that matter, how were they automatically of the same mindset with Nightmare Moon?
They COULDN'T have been, since Twilight was the only one at the time who knew NMM was Luna! Fluttershy was still at her meekest, Dash still brash...etc. If the Elements were to fail by this 'identical mindset' condition, that was the most likely time for it.
At the present time though? They all know what's at stake and they've all had the time to mature and unite as friends... their state of mind and singularity of purpose would be far more uniform than ever before.
2. How did Sombra become an expert on objects he'd never, ever, EVER so much as seen? Looking back at the history of the Elements and the Crystal Empire as we know it, there is no point at which Sombra comes in contact with the Elements. I find it very hard to believe that he's an expect on them and Celestia, who had them in her direct possession for quite a while, isn't. And, for the purposes of this story which proposes a very strange headcanon on how they work, Celestia NEVER thought maybe the ones bearing them might kinda need to know this rather crucial information...
3. The default 'do something' mental command clashes badly with the 'identical mindset' requirement. They would tend to contradict one another. It has to be one or the other condition. Both conditions cannot simultaneously be in effect.
4. The Elements came from the Tree of Harmony... the tree which seems to have something of a mind of its own since it made Twi & Co go through a whole long-winded process of collecting random objects which somehow became keys and then gave her a weird crystal tree castle...
Kinda hard to think of that acting along lines of computer logic.
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I'd rather spend an hour writing 1000 words to explain why something happened than say nothing and alienate even one of my readers.
5570286
1. As mentioned, when used on Nightmare Moon, the Elements were told to 'Do Something', and they did the simplest thing possible, that being the purge of dark magic. With Discord, the Six 'knew' that the Elements turned Discord to stone, so when their friendship was restored and they were united against him, they all shared the same intent. Thus, Discord got stoned. Intentions mean that they control the effect. Without clear, united intentions, the Elements will just do the simplest thing possible to solve the problem, whoever that problem might be.
2. If there was no record, anywhere, of the Elements of Harmony, then how would Celestia even have known where to find them? The elements did not suddenly just pop into existence. They're as old as the tree, and even if the tree and the elements were forgotten in the modern era, they're certain to have been better known a thousand years ago, especially after they were used to stop Discord.
3. The default 'Do Something' state is what happens when the six AREN'T united in their intentions. If even just two of them have the same thing in mind, then it will do what those two intend. Otherwise, anything goes.
4. The tree might have a will of its own, but the tree is not the elements, and the elements are not the tree.
5570081 She actually didn't use the Heart. Cadance stuck it in its slot, it sucked up happy feelings which flowed through the streets into the Heart, then the Heart blasted it out and the shockwave blew Sombra up.
It did its job automatically.
You can see it in action right here from the episode:
I have an excellent memory for details.
5570081 Except for the fact that there is NO EVIDENCE that Cadance soaks up love for power.
We could say that she helped Shining regain his love, since her talent is to create or amplify existing love between ponies... and perhaps since she was one of that pair she was using her own powers upon it created some sort of self-amplification feedback loop like a chain reaction building itself up exponentially until it goes critical... she creates love between Shining and herself, which makes him stronger and gives her more internal love of her own, which boosts her love-amplifying effects, which makes Shining love her more, which increases her love for him, which pushes the effect even higher until...
... well what do you know, I actually made sense of the Love Blast effect at long last!
They could totally use that to blow Sombra to bits again. No way in hell he can guard against that. He never saw it used against the changelings since he and the Empire were still banished out of time. THE PONIES HAVE A SUPER-SECRET WEAPON!!!
5570048 Yeah, when you have such an easy way for the Elements to be stopped, it's hard to believe NMM would have let the only ponies who knew about them get anywhere near the castle where the Elements were hidden!
That never ceases to bother me about the first two episodes of the series. I hate to say it, but NMM was willing to kill her sister... yet incapable of just curb-stomping 6 virtually powerless mares, and instead wasted her time on tricks and illusions... and cutting the mustache off a sea serpent... which I really can't figure out other than she was just being a douche. I mean, let's be honest, Flutters could fly over the river, Twi could teleport over it, and Dash could carry Rarity and AJ over in two brief trips. NMM's upsetting Steven to make the river rough would have accomplished exactly nothing.
(I forgive Lauren for this because she had wanted to make the quest to defeat NMM last an entire Season and be far more difficult. She had to crush her story into just two episodes, which made it virtually impossible to maintain a strong level of plausibility.)
5570030 I have an alternative theory. The author IS Conrad. We have yet to hear of concrete evidence that Conrad's original body actually died. It's quite possible that during his time in Equestria his human body was comatose. This would mean that at some point he may be made aware of that fact and decide to return, or simply is forced to separate from Tirek's body by the spell being nullified and discovers he's actually not dead that way.
Ah, and a more obvious reason why the Elements didn't cure Luna when Celestia used them: Celestia was not bearer of all 6 to begin with.
Luna wielded 3 of them, thus Celestia had to forcefully use those 3 against their Bearer... which also provides a plausible explanation for both a) why Celestia lost her bond to all the Elements, b) why Celestia was reluctant to use them until she clearly had no other choice, as she knew or suspected she'd only be able to imprison NMM at best and lose her sister for a very long time or perhaps forever, and c) why Celestia's use of all 6 could not cure Luna , and no need for any additional mechanism at all beyond what the various episodes have already shown us.
It also agrees with what we've seen of the Bearers, that when one or more is not in their right mind or the wrong person has an Element, they have... heh heh.... performance issues. It was much more severe with the Mane 6 since 4 were Discorded and the 5th was Spike (poor useless Spike, even though he was so loyal...) and Twilight wasn't exactly in harmony at the time either. The Element of Loyalty didn't light up at all when Spike had it, so we also can deduce that no one but the chosen Bearers can wield their Elements.
That Celestia could use the 3 borne by Luna at all is very perplexing. Perhaps it might be that alicorns of a certain level can use all 6 to some extent, or that the 3 had already sundered their connection to the corrupted Luna and granted a partial connection to Celestia? Of that, I can only speculate. I would go with the former hypothesis, that any alicorn can make use of all 6 to a limited extent, as it's the most outwardly likely explanation given that Celestia and Luna could wield 3 apiece from the start, and there is nothing to give credence to the latter hypothesis other than pure speculation.
It's a nicely self-contained explanation with no plot holes!
I'm going to have to disagree on a few things.
The first is that the Elements being simple minded. There has to be some sort of higher capability of understanding to actually identify that the one wielding it is actually worthy. If they were simple, anyone who exhibited the trait of whichever element they held could use it. Magic being the prime example as it wouldn't appear until Twilight proved herself worthy with truly understanding the magic of friendship.
2. Cohesion of thought. I doubt when facing Nightmare Moon and Discord the Mane Six were thinking of the exact same thing. None of them knew about Luna so how could they have known to banish the darkness out of her? Or with Discord and turning him back to stone? The only point that gives credence to thought cohesion was when they released Discord from his prison. What you're saying would be like creating a robot and simply telling it to 'go' without having programmed what exactly it needs to do. If removing the corruption from Luna was the path of least resistance like you said, then why didn't it do that in the first place? The reason why they didn't was that the Elements realized that fixing Luna would not solve the problem as she could easily revert in time so they went with a better plan: seal her away for a time, let her anger cool, and release her into a time where she could be better accepted.
3. The Elements of Harmony use harmonious magic, in simple terms light magic. Their job is getting rid of unharmonious things, things like dark magic. Which Sombra is basically at this time made of.
4. Now this is my biggest concern: How did Sombra understand the Elements of Harmony and how they worked? They were only used once and that was against Discord. Now because there is no clear timeline on when everything is occurring, Sombra could've been taking over the Empire just after Discord's reign or a hundred years after. Considering not even the Princesses knew how they worked (and being the only ones who've used them) how could a unicorn raised in a land where he was the only unicorn study them when he never had access to them?
5570292 Still, I feel sad that you had to do this just to please the people who complained. On their behalf, I want to just say "Sorry". There's absolutely no reason for viewers and readers to dictate an author's story. It's your story to write and, to be honest, it's not THAT implausible. If people just took some time to analyze and think, I wouldn't have to see so much garbage was unjustly being spat at you.
Again, sorry for how some of us behaved. It's not your fault that some people don't take the time to use their intelligence.
I seems part of my headcanon is correct.
5570002 Exactly! I'm sorry he had to write this chapter, I figured they didn't work for some reason that would either be explained later or something. I actually thought Sombra figured out something like this. He is supposed to be the tyrant and plotting overlord. At least it's over now right?
5570314 But how would Sombra know how to counter the Elements at all? When would he have been able to study their magic up close? Even if Sombra had directly witnessed Discord and/or Tirek being stoned, it's like expecting us to believe Luke Skywalker suddenly mastered the Force simply by watching Obi Wan use the Jedi-mind trick on the Sand People and the Storm Troopers. The first time he wouldn't know what he was seeing, and the second demonstration still wouldn't grant him any information on how any of it worked.
One observation of a complex action without any other empirical evidence to study pertaining to the actual rules and mechanisms governing said effect cannot grant any modicum of competency on the subject.
The time line leaves very little leeway here. Sombra was not immortal, he came to power after Discord was stoned, then he was beaten by Celestia and Luna before Luna became NMM. At some point between Discord and Sombra, Tirek was also defeated... but Starswirl was also still alive.. as he was during Clover the Clever's time. Now, unless Starswirl happens to time travel frequently that can mean one of only two things a) he lived centuries and the events are more spread out than they initially appear, or b) all the event from unification to NMM occurred in less than a century.
Sombra's rise and defeat took place in the middle of this time period. He could have only seen the Elements used twice at most, IF he somehow managed to be in the right place at the right time in both instances. I do not believe he'd have seen Discord's banishment, as he'd have had no power to resist Discord's madness during that time, and Discord would hardly have let him skulk around spying on him even if he did. That'd cause Discord to regard Sombra as an instant target for Super Chaos Trolling TIme!
So, really, we're left with Sombra seeing Tirek banished. And with no explanation of how and when he'd been able to study the Elements in sufficient detail to comprehend the fundamental laws governing their mode of action.