I kinda expected Twilight to know that pregnancy induces mood swings, food cravings, and strange behavior because if she did, she would know that Rainbow would be doing this and would want to eat whatever she wanted to eat.
I now know what OOC truely is. Frankly, I straight up hate Twilight right now. This reminds me of Discord's reformation. Rushed, then back to bad later. That sums it up.
I don't care, I am done with this Twilight. She isn't Twilight. That thing you wrote isn't Twilight Sparkle. You aren't talking about a little fight here. This is her willingly going and destroying Dash's entire life because she is stupidly worried about a month-along foal when others have obviously worked and fought up until they give birth. This is an idiotic Twilight. Ues, she may have freakouts, but that doesn't extend this far.
And whatever happened to Shining Armor and Cadance? They should already be there. Actually, I don't care. You might not have removed her wings, but I think I'm done with this fic for a little bit. I wish I wasn't. But please, fix this. The only character I've hated more than the Twilight in this chapter is Shell from the Austraeoh saga, and that's because he not only thought about all those things, but did them. Twilight was an inch away from matching him.
The basic problem Twilight is facing is a serious control issues brought on by her fear that Dash will get hurt, so she clamps down on everything she can in order to try and stop that from happening while not looking at the damage she is causing to prevent one possible problem.
When she realizes it at the end, she becomes so afraid of her own decision making she just hands it all over to Rainbow.
Shining and Cadence are arriving at the end of the day, they just got done with lunch.
and what do you mean OOC? Twilight majorly overreacts when she has any sort of crises she doesn't know how to deal with, its the focus of two of her most popular episodes. Now, she's having to deal with fatherhood and the only way she sees how to do that is to restrict Rainbow's actions to keep her from anything even remotely dangerous.
Then, by the time she realizes her actions, she's afraid of her own decision-making process.
4610407 She overreacts, but never actually ends up hurting someone in any way. You have her go from last chapter having straight up bondage sex to forcing her to eat seaweed for sneaking a few cupcakes at work. You have Twilight literally prevent Rainbow from part of her destiny when she slows her flying. Twilight may have a history of overreaction, but there is a line and you pole-vaulted over it.
And you say that she restricts Rainbow's actions. Restrict doesn't cut it. She quite literally turns Rainbow into a freaking slave. You might say that it's going a bit far, but it isn't. Rainbow become wholly under the domination of Twilight (and not in the sexy way). Twilight makes all of the decisions for Rainbow from the exact time she has to soend in the shower, to every calorie she consumes, to her lifelong dream, to the very identity of freedom that she possesses (wings).
And if Twilight thinks that not being able to fly for a few months isn't that bad, then she really doesn't know Rainbow at all. Not as an aquaintance, not as a friend and certainly not as a lover.
That is what I meant with OOC. Does the person I just described sound like Twilight?
4610389 No, this Is insanely in character for Twilight. Remember Lesson Zero? Twilight is a total control freak who also has a crippling fear of failure and the unknown, combined with really shitty introspective skills. She panics easily and then loses sight of right and wrong, she is extremely smart, but is not extremely logical nor does she seem to have a lot of ability for forethought.
she may have freakouts, but that doesn't extend this far.
Um, forgive me if I'm somehow mistaken, but this is the same Twilight who's top two previous major freakouts resulted in a town wide brawl over her doll, and attempting to try and find a spell to PERMANENTLY STOP TIME to prevent a disaster that didn't actually exist, right?
The events of this chapter are perfectly in character for her, including the not seeing the side consequences her plans would have on Dash or their relationship. She had a goal (protect their foal from harm) and saw the logical solution (do everything she could to keep Dash from doing anything remotely dangrous) but of course didn't factor in Dash's feelings until she got broadsided with them directly.
Now if you want REALLY scary, picture if it was TWILIGHT who was pregnant, so we'd have all of the above, but with hormonal mood swings thrown into the mix...
"Why are ... my sister and I chained down with more magic-suppressors on us then a Hearth's Warming tree has decorations?"
"Well ... I'm pregnant."
"... That is really not an explanation."
"Well, I've been reading up and working out how I need to change my lifestyle and environment for an optimal pregnancy. But then I realized optimizing my diet or getting gentle exercise won't do much to prevent, say, a rampaging hydra biting me on the belly. Or accidentally getting caught in a Party Cannon Blast. But my magic lets me deal with that! I've got a warding spell selection that covers every eventuality!"
"... Oh no. You're having one of your episodes, aren't you?"
"I don't ... know what you mean? Anyway, I realized that the only thing I wasn't accounting for was, well, you and Luna. I'mnotsayingyouwanttohurtmyfoal! Of course you don't. But with mind-corrupting effects like Nightmare Moon, and maybe Tirek escaping again and stealing your power... I couldn't be sure. So, ummm, I'd really appreciate it if, well, you just sort of stayed right here for the duration of my pregnancy. Please?"
"Twilight, I can ... sort of see where you're coming from with this, and -"
"I am confused, Twilight Sparkle. There is an obvious flaw in your plan, if you seek to trap us but have done nothing about Discord."
"Oh ... oh Luna, I hadn't even thoughtaboutthatohnoohnoohno... wait! EUREKA!"
"... Luna, what have you done??"
EDIT: Count me in with those who can totally see Twilight do this. It really felt like one of Twilight's brain snaps, but played straight, with all the terror for various participants that involves.
There's already a war going on about Twilight's OOC-ness, so I'm gonna give my two bits.
This is extremely over reacting for her.
She does not control ponies.
No, Lesson zero was not her controlling ponies; she didn't mean the spell to be as powerful as it was, all she wanted was for the three fillies to want the doll. That was a mistake, not her desire to control. That argument will not work here.
If Twilight knew anything about Rainbow Dash, she'd now what taking away her wings would mean. She would understand that taking away Dash's wings would be like taking away her magic. She may be prone to spiraling, but only mentally; she's never acted on these spirals. Again, Lesson Zero is not an example against this because again, she didn't want anything more than a mere desire for the doll. (I am really sick of this argument, because everyone who uses it ignores the reason behind the spell and focuses on the outcome.
I have a hard time believing the Rainbow you've created here. She's not a pushover, and she clearly and honestly speaks her mind. Yes, she'd have a bit of trepidation when doing it in these circumstances, but I cannot see her going full-tilt "I will never say anything". She is not afraid to speak her mind, and I would hope she'd know that if she did before Twilight got this bad that she could have stopped it.
Twilight obviously does not try to control her friends. If she did, they'd all be locked in her basement by now, and Pinkie would probably be in a coma so she'd stop breaking reality. If Twilight really were this controlling and obsessive, she'd never be able to have real friends, let alone a marefriend.
You've set up an incredibly OOC Twilight, and a questionable though still acceptable Rainbow Dash.
Again, Lesson Zero is not a valid argument; all it shows is lack of foresight for actions made out of desperation and and spell accidentally made too powerful. None of these actions were made out of the same level of desperation as the want it need it spell, because you've clearly shown Twilight thinking things through logically.
As much as I love Twidash, at this point I'm honestly hoping they break up; this is not in any way shape or form a healthy relationship. between Twilight's over-excessive control issues, Rainbow's desire to hide everything she feels, and their general inability to communicate, them staying together would be unhealthy and quite frankly ridiculous.
If I can ask, how extensive is the blacklist? does it just apply to government jobs or are private and self employed business involved. Also does the prohibition on entering government property extend to the palaces (if yes, then Twilight will want to take resend the blacklist right away lest she be arrested for staying in her own house).
okay, still reading, but had to say this, TWILIGHT! you're not even thinking about how rainbow feels about this. rainbow was happy at work, even thinking she'd forgive you for your craziness, and now you practically ruined her life and you just think she'll be happy with that? THINK YOU STUPID ALICORN! THINK!
I more or less dropped out in the beginning. You were doing fine....then Twilight went extremly OOC. Even if it came to foals, Twilight wouldn't crack down this hard.
Finally read it all. And one comment is on my mind, how the fuck are they still together? Loyalty or not, after that much abuse, FORCING them out of the job is a perfect way to end a relationship. Yet, for some odd reason, she stayed? I think you are focusing too much on adding shock value, that it is becoming more unbelievable with all the OOC characters and unlikely situations and outcomes.
I do agree that Twi was OOC but I still found the chapter entertaining. Rainbow finally did the right thing at the end but they really do need to communicate better and perhaps Rainbow should go to her parents for bit just so Twilight has time to process what she has done. Many Pegasi have given birth and did it well without Twilight's research eventually Rainbow will be grounded just because she will be too heavy to fly or fly well so Twilight doesn't need to worry about it. I do hope that they will communicate better now and will in the future I WANT MOAR SOON! If that is alright with you
Beside the fact twilight is a bit of a mess(and this is an understatement) I like the pase of this chapter. Just really wish you churn out more in one go but I know good stories take time so. Take as much as you need :) personally I enjoy reading this chapter. I can't stop reading the freak out scene.
4610847 I'm definitely inclined to agree with you on all but one thing. I don't think even putting Pinkie into a coma would stop her from breaking reality.
Umm overpowered the spell? Where does it say that.
As for Twilight's OOC, this has been building for a week. The last time she let her panicked state keep increasing, she nearly stopped time. She didn't even pull herself back from that one, she just couldn't find the spell to do it. And as for her lesson of don't worry about stuff you can't control, well she CAN control RD's options by going to extreme measures.
And of course they still have tons of problems. Just saying I love you doesn't solve any problems beyond the anxiety of whether or not two characters have feelings for each other. It starts the relationship, but everything else like communication, respect, trust and boundaries are built (or redefined) as it develops, and right now the only relationship experience she has is as a friend with RD is pretty bossy one as far as Rainbow is concerned.
As for how Twilight is approaching the relationship. She can't not be the overbearing and bossy GF. Look at the three big examples in her life that she can draw from.
We've got Cadence, who according to the comics (which happened in this story) just up and decided that she and Shining Armor were going to get married before their first date.
The god empress of pony-kind Celestia who nopony says no to.
And Spike, whose life is strictly controlled by Twilight.
seriously i think twilights blacklist and rainbow losing her job well bve overturned anyway, thats not something likely to just go past celestias knowledge. i imagine celestia well be coming soon to talk to twilight if lesson zero is any indication she's likely already on her way.
4612135 You seem to be ignoring me when I say that Twilight doesn't control ponies. She controls her own life down to the minute, but she doesn't do so with her friends. When has she ever tried to impose a schedule on anypony else?
You also seem to neglect that Twilight's never gotten to the point you've taken her to here, regardless of the situation. She can still look at things from an objective standpoint and realizes when things have gotten out of hand. Let's use your own favourite example against you ehre; Lesson Zero.
She didn't want the entire town to become obsessed with it, she wanted three fillies to desire it. When she noticed the rest of the town getting involved, she instantly realized it had gone too far. Here you have it seem like she has no apparent knowledge of what it is she's doing.
You've taken her controlling side way to far. She's only ever tried to control her own life, and nothing more. I'm sure she'd like it if everything and everyone else was a bit more organized, but she's never forced it on anyone else.
Lesson Zero is a perfect example. Controlling ponies wasn't her goal. Controlling Rainbow Dash isn't her goal. Controlling ponies/Rainbow Dash is the way she achieved her goal.
Forcing a friendship problem for her to solve. Forcing a lifestyle to keep her foal safe.
Honestly, I find this Twilight fairly in character.
4612670 The difference is in the situation and the scenario. In Lesson Zero, her control wasn't being exerted on just a single pony that she loved with all her heart, it was being inadvertently exerted upon the entirety of the town, and that snapped her out of it. Here, aside from being aggravated and clearly annoyed and/or upset, Rainbow Dash made no clear indication that she wasn't okay with what was going on, and Twilight was suffering from complete tunnel-vision: she was so focused on making everything safe for the foal so that Rainbow Dash would never have to suffer the possibility of an accident harming it, that she never even considered that Rainbow might be ROYALLY pissed off and reaching a breaking point. She's always been a free spirit, full of vigor and pursuing her life's dreams. Twilight never even thought about that beyond Rainbow repeatedly reassuring her that she was okay with giving up on the Wonderbolts, which was a blatant lie.
Then of course, there's the fact that this has been building and building for a week straight now, and Twilight has a tendency to go overboard with anything she sets her focus on. That's the entire reason Lesson Zero happened in the first place: she forgot about something because she was too focused on OTHER things and had become accustomed to Spike remembering that part of her schedule, and rapidly descended into her own special brand of madness to correct her mistake, without properly considering the consequences of her actions in those hectic moments.
This happens to a lot of people, especially geniuses. They're so smart not just because there's something about their brains that makes them superior to any ordinary person, but rather, it's that they can FOCUS so intently on something that everything else gets shut out. This is both a good and a bad thing, as we see with Twilight in Lesson Zero, and even here. In Lesson Zero, she snapped out of it because she hadn't gone full-tilt and there was a clear indication that her actions had done some seriously bad stuff to those around her. In this story, she's been descending further and further into her obsessive control over Rainbow Dash's well-being because, as far as she's known up until now in the story, things have been just fine and dandy on Rainbow's end. That's a mistake on Rainbow's part, and Twilight's inability to read her lover's body language and subtle cues in her behavior is entirely her fault due to her lack of socializing while growing up.
I just don't know about this man. I don't want to discourage you or anything, (Selfishly assuming my opinion carries weight) but the only honest feedback I can offer is that this is bullshit. When people said they wanted feels, they meant good feels, not "What the fuck, why is Twilight being such an asshole" feels. Some of the shit you wrote here, (Figuratively, given the lack of quality in the characterization) wouldn't be all that out of place in a mindbreak/rape fic. My honest advice, is to go and write a story like that, if that's what you want to do, but if you're trying to write a happy story, this is most certainly not how it's done. The entire sub-theme for this chapter can be summed up by "Twilight is an overbearing, controlling boy/girlfriend who has no concern whatsoever for her girl/boyfriend." I mean, that was literally the only thing in this chapter. There was no upside, no relief to the tension, just more and more of the same stuff. and to be succinct, that stuff isn't what many people want to read.
Ways that this could be better... completely re-write this chapter, show some of the aftermath of what happened last chapter. I mean, didn't Twilight JUST get done being a ginormous dickhead to Rainbow? (Re-read, and it was actually chapter before last, my apologies) but you would still think that she would have gotten the fucking clue to be more communicative, and understanding of what Rainbow wants. With things the way they are now, you've shown that Twilight is completely incapable of learning from her mistakes, and that this is an abusive, controlling relationship. I could bring up that stupid meme "Still a better love story than Twilight" But I think I'm going to start a sub-meme called "Still a better love story than 'The Benefits of Friendship Come With Consequences' and use it on message boards that discuss Twilight. You're not a bad author, you're above average at clop, but holy shit. If you keep up with this tone for the story, I don't think many people will read it, let alone like it.
I like to see Twilight this overbearing and I think that this is ok as the reason why was because she wanted to protect her kid.
However, completely overlooking her friend is really odd... It almost feels like you did this before and we are simply relearning a lessen she should already know.
I liked how you brought it back with Twilight letting Rainbow make the decisions but then you killed that with Rainbow not wanting her job back and Twilight going to far with it and no longer trusting herself to make ANY decisions.It would have been a great moment to develop a shared partnership in the relationship with Rainbow learning that 'some' of what Twilight wanted was good, and Twilight learning she cannot control every aspect of Ranibow's life.
Was there feels? Yes... Were they good feels? I don't know.
4612670 She's also never dealt with something as personally big as impending parenthood. You keep harping about Twilight only controlling her own life...well Rainbow and the foal are now PART OF HER LIFE.
And fine, let's stop looking at Lesson Zero...and instead look at It's About Time. There, Twilight continually escalates her means of trying to prevent the disaster she thinks is coming. It starts out with just getting Ponyville caught up on some town maintenance (which, judging from the dam, probably averted a real disaster), but then starts escalating as the signs of the impending 'disaster' keep mounting. Suddenly she's gone 'MONITOR EVERYTHING!' and when THAT doesn't work, she decides she's just gonna permanently stop time. Note that at no point does she think about, say, informing Celestia about a possible incoming disaster or anything. No, she has to solve this herself. And she doesn't lose this mentality at all until it's pretty much shoved in her face that she was worrying over nothing. As pointed out, she didn't pull back from trying to stop time, she just couldn't figure out HOW to do it within the time limit she had.
I think the real reason people aren't liking this chapter is that, while it is perfectly in character for a Twilight freakout, here it's NOT being played for laughs. We're seeing Twilight Snapple being played deadly serious, and, surprise surprise, it's SCARY.
4613013 4612794 4612719 4612135 I'm not arguing back anymore. I'm done. I added my two cents and that's as far as I'm willing to take this. Opinions are opinions and people will always have different opinions.
I'd like to take a moment, however, to also point out that both of those episodes (It's about time and lesson zero) are about Twilight learning a growing The entire series has been. Doesn't that count for something? Couldn't it be said she learned something from those experiences and grown into a different pony than she was then?
Either way, I'm done until the next chapter goes live.
4613042 Yes, the entire show's about learning from one's mistakes and growing as an individual. Just the same, many have to re-learn those lessons, and sometimes we have to be reminded. This is a deeply-ingrained part of Twilight's personality, it's not just something she's going to learn to 'get over'. She obsesses, she focuses, she makes mistakes, like any normal person does. Even Applejack, after learning that she can depend on her friends, still tends to be stubborn and self-reliant unless she's absolutely sure she can't handle something on her own.
In fact, let's bring up a specific scene that comes to mind when I think of Twilight's tendency to obsess over things, from....euuuuggghh....Equestria Girls.
That took place clearly after Twilight became an alicorn, and in one very early-on scene, you know, when everyone was still ponies and such, Twilight begins to panic about some very specific details involving her new status as a Princess and having to rule her own kingdom potentially. All of these details are what she thinks might happen in the future, and she starts to freak out. The only thing that calms her down is a bump on the head from her slowly fluttering up into the ceiling, and Celestia showing up conveniently to set her mind at ease.
Obsessing over things is a core part of who she is, a core part of her personality and who she is, and until she finds a way to overcome that part of her and become a much more calm and laid back individual (or discover the Magic of Marijuana), she can learn from the mistake of trying to control her life and obsess over controlling it all she wants....she's going to keep making that mistake.
Since everyone else is discussing it, I guess I'll throw my two cents into the ring.
While I don't think Twilight was quite OOC in this chapter, she was pushed right up to the edge. She does have a history of obsessing over things and going crazy, but she's never gone this far before. On the other hand, she's never been worried about the safety of her own foal before either, so I can stretch my suspension of disbelief to cover most of her actions. The food, flying speed, work, and even wings I can buy as she goes crazier and crazier, though I am a bit mystified why she would care about how long Rainbow Dash takes a shower for or kissing for a few extra seconds.
I actually found Rainbow Dash to be more out of character than Twilight here. She's always been one to speak her mind without care for other pony's feelings. I just can't see her bottling up her anger at what Twilight is asking her to do, especially not for a whole week. It's true she's never had a girlfriend in the show, so maybe in this circumstance she would try to be a little mindful of what she says, but I can't imagine that lasting for more than a day with the way Twilight's been treating her.
All that said, I'm looking forward to the next chapter. I'm glad Twilight was called out in one chapter, because I don't know if I could have taken too much more of her with how monstrous she was acting. Hopefully Cadence and/or Shining Armor can talk some sense into her.
Wow. Was anyone else thinking of a different Twilight when reading this chapter? One written by a certain Stephanie Meyer? Abusive girlfriend much, Twilight? Holy shit.
4615479 Definitely, but the worst kind. The kind who other people might agree is trying to do the right thing too.
That's the real problem Twilight's had. First, she's massively A-type personality, which is the underlying issue. But she never really *did* learn her lesson from Lesson Zero or It's About Time. Sure, ostensibly she learned not to freak out over little things, and that she can't control everything in the world to make sure nothing bad ever happens.
But she never learned that there are consequences to her obsessive need for control.
What happened in Lesson Zero because of her little riot? She disappointed Celestia, but she didn't lose anything. Indeed, the entire lesson could be seen in terms of her dreadful fear of consequences itself being one of those silly fears she needed to overcome. It's About Time? She was exhausted and felt silly. If this was Rarity, that might've done the trick, but this is Twilight.
Then you factor in that she has actually been rewarded numerous times for her micromanagement and obsessive need to control everything - Winter Wrap-Up? Canterlot Wedding?
She has never actually learned that her micromanagement is something that's likely to cost her in the long run.
And now, she's not just dealing with her life. She's not just dealing with Rainbow's life. The two of them would probably already be at each others' throats trying to live together just because of the Odd Couple factor.
But with how I've already seen normal, everyday, non-obsessive people freak out over having a baby? Living with Twilight would be Hell. And in this chapter, she learned that Rainbow was escaping from that Hell every chance she got - sneaking sweets, ignoring dietary rules, spending time at work on a potentially dangerous job.
Most obsessives given that sort of slap in the face? They'd respond by calling their girlfriend in sick and then telling her that work called and said they didn't need her today. They'd try to do... well... exactly what Twilight does. They'd try to arrange it so that their partner doesn't need to go to work. The difference between a Twilight Sparkle and a typical abusive, obsessive boyfriend is that Twilight doesn't have to manipulate things to make it happen - she just has to call and say "this is what you're doing," and it's done!
Rainbow was very right to be afraid of Twilight. And I'm not entirely sure that's changed yet.
Well, I can say this much; Rainbow Dash is far more forgiving and tolerant than I could or would ever be.
If Twilight was levying restrictions on me left and right I would have told her about herself within the first two weeks, and broke things off. I don't care what kind of excuse she had, I don't like people telling me how to live my life, let alone forcing their beliefs down my throat.
I'm not sure about this Twilight, she tend to overthink and overeact, but reaching the extreme to cut Rainbow's wings, blacklisted from getting jobs, no thanks. What Twilight would do is maybe make Rainbow wear a armor or cast a spell to protect her. And Rainbow, well she always say that is in her mind.
In this chapter you make me want to slap this Twilight.
Well, lets see what you will do in the next chapter, because this one was extremely OOC.
i've been wondering when rainbow would finally call twilight out for going over the deep end. she held out longer then i thought she would. i mean, i'd have flipped maybe a few days after it all started, not weeks.
That was... well, I would not have found that version of Twilight Sparkle out of place at the beginning of a "Twilight cuts off Rainbow Dash's wings and then gets worse from there" gorefic. Particularly since she was explicitly *considering* that option. I don't think it really needed that; that's more 'no healthy relationship can really come back from one participant actively planning to mutilate the other.' The ridiculousness in the bathroom timing, too. If it had been getting overly controlling on diet, and had an on-screen fight over Dash's exercise and work culminating in Twilight using her princessly authority to get her way, that could have played much cleaner. But for me? I'm basically looking at Dash as completely broken at this point, not even really believing she can get away. Which again is a lot more of a horror situation.
frankly I felt like she would have been better off with sombre at that point ... is it wrong I wanted to summon Daedra and eradicate pone Ville if necessary to save dash from twilight even if it made the entire settlement burn and every last non foal pony well be sent to oblivion.
And Twilight is now unlikeable. Sigh... I mean as tired and cliche as her worries in "Day One" were at least they were kinda plausible... Maybe. Now? Twilight is frankly a horror villain and Rainbow is pushing the boarders of idiocy to even still be near her. Dead god Twilight, so much for a happy relationship.
Since I what to like this story I'm going to have to pretend this chapter does not exist. In fact the only reason I'm going to continue reading is because, for the most part, this is contained in this one chapter.
This story is a bit crazy i think.
I kinda expected Twilight to know that pregnancy induces mood swings, food cravings, and strange behavior because if she did, she would know that Rainbow would be doing this and would want to eat whatever she wanted to eat.
I now know what OOC truely is. Frankly, I straight up hate Twilight right now. This reminds me of Discord's reformation. Rushed, then back to bad later. That sums it up.
I don't care, I am done with this Twilight. She isn't Twilight. That thing you wrote isn't Twilight Sparkle. You aren't talking about a little fight here. This is her willingly going and destroying Dash's entire life because she is stupidly worried about a month-along foal when others have obviously worked and fought up until they give birth. This is an idiotic Twilight. Ues, she may have freakouts, but that doesn't extend this far.
And whatever happened to Shining Armor and Cadance? They should already be there. Actually, I don't care. You might not have removed her wings, but I think I'm done with this fic for a little bit. I wish I wasn't. But please, fix this. The only character I've hated more than the Twilight in this chapter is Shell from the Austraeoh saga, and that's because he not only thought about all those things, but did them. Twilight was an inch away from matching him.
Good day.
4610362
The basic problem Twilight is facing is a serious control issues brought on by her fear that Dash will get hurt, so she clamps down on everything she can in order to try and stop that from happening while not looking at the damage she is causing to prevent one possible problem.
When she realizes it at the end, she becomes so afraid of her own decision making she just hands it all over to Rainbow.
4610389
Shining and Cadence are arriving at the end of the day, they just got done with lunch.
and what do you mean OOC? Twilight majorly overreacts when she has any sort of crises she doesn't know how to deal with, its the focus of two of her most popular episodes. Now, she's having to deal with fatherhood and the only way she sees how to do that is to restrict Rainbow's actions to keep her from anything even remotely dangerous.
Then, by the time she realizes her actions, she's afraid of her own decision-making process.
4610407 She overreacts, but never actually ends up hurting someone in any way. You have her go from last chapter having straight up bondage sex to forcing her to eat seaweed for sneaking a few cupcakes at work. You have Twilight literally prevent Rainbow from part of her destiny when she slows her flying. Twilight may have a history of overreaction, but there is a line and you pole-vaulted over it.
And you say that she restricts Rainbow's actions. Restrict doesn't cut it. She quite literally turns Rainbow into a freaking slave. You might say that it's going a bit far, but it isn't. Rainbow become wholly under the domination of Twilight (and not in the sexy way). Twilight makes all of the decisions for Rainbow from the exact time she has to soend in the shower, to every calorie she consumes, to her lifelong dream, to the very identity of freedom that she possesses (wings).
And if Twilight thinks that not being able to fly for a few months isn't that bad, then she really doesn't know Rainbow at all. Not as an aquaintance, not as a friend and certainly not as a lover.
That is what I meant with OOC. Does the person I just described sound like Twilight?
4610389 No, this Is insanely in character for Twilight. Remember Lesson Zero? Twilight is a total control freak who also has a crippling fear of failure and the unknown, combined with really shitty introspective skills. She panics easily and then loses sight of right and wrong, she is extremely smart, but is not extremely logical nor does she seem to have a lot of ability for forethought.
THE FEELSSSSSS *hurk, dead*
4610389
Um, forgive me if I'm somehow mistaken, but this is the same Twilight who's top two previous major freakouts resulted in a town wide brawl over her doll, and attempting to try and find a spell to PERMANENTLY STOP TIME to prevent a disaster that didn't actually exist, right?
The events of this chapter are perfectly in character for her, including the not seeing the side consequences her plans would have on Dash or their relationship. She had a goal (protect their foal from harm) and saw the logical solution (do everything she could to keep Dash from doing anything remotely dangrous) but of course didn't factor in Dash's feelings until she got broadsided with them directly.
Now if you want REALLY scary, picture if it was TWILIGHT who was pregnant, so we'd have all of the above, but with hormonal mood swings thrown into the mix...
Rainbow Dash should have handled this differently. She should have told the highest authority in all the land: Twilight's mother.
4610531 we have another dead person over here
4610545
Ohhh, pregnant Twilight would get really bad.
===
"Twilight?"
"Yes, Princess Celestia?"
"Why are ... my sister and I chained down with more magic-suppressors on us then a Hearth's Warming tree has decorations?"
"Well ... I'm pregnant."
"... That is really not an explanation."
"Well, I've been reading up and working out how I need to change my lifestyle and environment for an optimal pregnancy. But then I realized optimizing my diet or getting gentle exercise won't do much to prevent, say, a rampaging hydra biting me on the belly. Or accidentally getting caught in a Party Cannon Blast. But my magic lets me deal with that! I've got a warding spell selection that covers every eventuality!"
"... Oh no. You're having one of your episodes, aren't you?"
"I don't ... know what you mean? Anyway, I realized that the only thing I wasn't accounting for was, well, you and Luna. I'mnotsayingyouwanttohurtmyfoal! Of course you don't. But with mind-corrupting effects like Nightmare Moon, and maybe Tirek escaping again and stealing your power... I couldn't be sure. So, ummm, I'd really appreciate it if, well, you just sort of stayed right here for the duration of my pregnancy. Please?"
"Twilight, I can ... sort of see where you're coming from with this, and -"
"I am confused, Twilight Sparkle. There is an obvious flaw in your plan, if you seek to trap us but have done nothing about Discord."
"Oh ... oh Luna, I hadn't even thoughtaboutthatohnoohnoohno... wait! EUREKA!"
"... Luna, what have you done??"
EDIT: Count me in with those who can totally see Twilight do this. It really felt like one of Twilight's brain snaps, but played straight, with all the terror for various participants that involves.
There's already a war going on about Twilight's OOC-ness, so I'm gonna give my two bits.
This is extremely over reacting for her.
She does not control ponies.
No, Lesson zero was not her controlling ponies; she didn't mean the spell to be as powerful as it was, all she wanted was for the three fillies to want the doll. That was a mistake, not her desire to control. That argument will not work here.
If Twilight knew anything about Rainbow Dash, she'd now what taking away her wings would mean. She would understand that taking away Dash's wings would be like taking away her magic. She may be prone to spiraling, but only mentally; she's never acted on these spirals. Again, Lesson Zero is not an example against this because again, she didn't want anything more than a mere desire for the doll. (I am really sick of this argument, because everyone who uses it ignores the reason behind the spell and focuses on the outcome.
I have a hard time believing the Rainbow you've created here. She's not a pushover, and she clearly and honestly speaks her mind. Yes, she'd have a bit of trepidation when doing it in these circumstances, but I cannot see her going full-tilt "I will never say anything". She is not afraid to speak her mind, and I would hope she'd know that if she did before Twilight got this bad that she could have stopped it.
Twilight obviously does not try to control her friends. If she did, they'd all be locked in her basement by now, and Pinkie would probably be in a coma so she'd stop breaking reality. If Twilight really were this controlling and obsessive, she'd never be able to have real friends, let alone a marefriend.
You've set up an incredibly OOC Twilight, and a questionable though still acceptable Rainbow Dash.
Again, Lesson Zero is not a valid argument; all it shows is lack of foresight for actions made out of desperation and and spell accidentally made too powerful. None of these actions were made out of the same level of desperation as the want it need it spell, because you've clearly shown Twilight thinking things through logically.
As much as I love Twidash, at this point I'm honestly hoping they break up; this is not in any way shape or form a healthy relationship. between Twilight's over-excessive control issues, Rainbow's desire to hide everything she feels, and their general inability to communicate, them staying together would be unhealthy and quite frankly ridiculous.
If I can ask, how extensive is the blacklist? does it just apply to government jobs or are private and self employed business involved. Also does the prohibition on entering government property extend to the palaces (if yes, then Twilight will want to take resend the blacklist right away lest she be arrested for staying in her own house).
okay, still reading, but had to say this, TWILIGHT! you're not even thinking about how rainbow feels about this. rainbow was happy at work, even thinking she'd forgive you for your craziness, and now you practically ruined her life and you just think she'll be happy with that? THINK YOU STUPID ALICORN! THINK!
well, thank celestia that twilight finally sees how much she fucked up.
i think cadance coming is a good thing. she'll be able to help them rekindle everything. everything twilight almost destroyed.
I almost quit the chapter as I saw Rainbow lose her job...
At least Twilight is starting to see how much more damage can be done by trying to prevent things than simply letting things be.
4610847 I agree...
I more or less dropped out in the beginning. You were doing fine....then Twilight went extremly OOC. Even if it came to foals, Twilight wouldn't crack down this hard.
I'm going.to try to keep reading, but fuck.
Finally read it all. And one comment is on my mind, how the fuck are they still together? Loyalty or not, after that much abuse, FORCING them out of the job is a perfect way to end a relationship. Yet, for some odd reason, she stayed? I think you are focusing too much on adding shock value, that it is becoming more unbelievable with all the OOC characters and unlikely situations and outcomes.
I almost want to hate Twilight, regardless of the emotional blackmail at the end...
I do agree that Twi was OOC but I still found the chapter entertaining. Rainbow finally did the right thing at the end but they really do need to communicate better and perhaps Rainbow should go to her parents for bit just so Twilight has time to process what she has done. Many Pegasi have given birth and did it well without Twilight's research eventually Rainbow will be grounded just because she will be too heavy to fly or fly well so Twilight doesn't need to worry about it. I do hope that they will communicate better now and will in the future I WANT MOAR SOON! If that is alright with you
Beside the fact twilight is a bit of a mess(and this is an understatement) I like the pase of this chapter. Just really wish you churn out more in one go but I know good stories take time so. Take as much as you need :) personally I enjoy reading this chapter. I can't stop reading the freak out scene.
Frankly, this chapter made me cringe. Hard.
4610847 This guy pretty much says it all.
I'm going to keep reading, but unless this chapter is edited to be less of a trainwreck, I'll just pretend it never happened.
4610847 I'm definitely inclined to agree with you on all but one thing. I don't think even putting Pinkie into a coma would stop her from breaking reality.
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Umm overpowered the spell? Where does it say that.
As for Twilight's OOC, this has been building for a week. The last time she let her panicked state keep increasing, she nearly stopped time. She didn't even pull herself back from that one, she just couldn't find the spell to do it. And as for her lesson of don't worry about stuff you can't control, well she CAN control RD's options by going to extreme measures.
And of course they still have tons of problems. Just saying I love you doesn't solve any problems beyond the anxiety of whether or not two characters have feelings for each other. It starts the relationship, but everything else like communication, respect, trust and boundaries are built (or redefined) as it develops, and right now the only relationship experience she has is as a friend with RD is pretty bossy one as far as Rainbow is concerned.
As for how Twilight is approaching the relationship. She can't not be the overbearing and bossy GF. Look at the three big examples in her life that she can draw from.
We've got Cadence, who according to the comics (which happened in this story) just up and decided that she and Shining Armor were going to get married before their first date.
The god empress of pony-kind Celestia who nopony says no to.
And Spike, whose life is strictly controlled by Twilight.
seriously i think twilights blacklist and rainbow losing her job well bve overturned anyway, thats not something likely to just go past celestias knowledge. i imagine celestia well be coming soon to talk to twilight if lesson zero is any indication she's likely already on her way.
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You seem to be ignoring me when I say that Twilight doesn't control ponies. She controls her own life down to the minute, but she doesn't do so with her friends. When has she ever tried to impose a schedule on anypony else?
You also seem to neglect that Twilight's never gotten to the point you've taken her to here, regardless of the situation. She can still look at things from an objective standpoint and realizes when things have gotten out of hand. Let's use your own favourite example against you ehre; Lesson Zero.
She didn't want the entire town to become obsessed with it, she wanted three fillies to desire it. When she noticed the rest of the town getting involved, she instantly realized it had gone too far. Here you have it seem like she has no apparent knowledge of what it is she's doing.
You've taken her controlling side way to far. She's only ever tried to control her own life, and nothing more. I'm sure she'd like it if everything and everyone else was a bit more organized, but she's never forced it on anyone else.
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Lesson Zero is a perfect example. Controlling ponies wasn't her goal. Controlling Rainbow Dash isn't her goal. Controlling ponies/Rainbow Dash is the way she achieved her goal.
Forcing a friendship problem for her to solve.
Forcing a lifestyle to keep her foal safe.
Honestly, I find this Twilight fairly in character.
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The difference is in the situation and the scenario. In Lesson Zero, her control wasn't being exerted on just a single pony that she loved with all her heart, it was being inadvertently exerted upon the entirety of the town, and that snapped her out of it. Here, aside from being aggravated and clearly annoyed and/or upset, Rainbow Dash made no clear indication that she wasn't okay with what was going on, and Twilight was suffering from complete tunnel-vision: she was so focused on making everything safe for the foal so that Rainbow Dash would never have to suffer the possibility of an accident harming it, that she never even considered that Rainbow might be ROYALLY pissed off and reaching a breaking point. She's always been a free spirit, full of vigor and pursuing her life's dreams. Twilight never even thought about that beyond Rainbow repeatedly reassuring her that she was okay with giving up on the Wonderbolts, which was a blatant lie.
Then of course, there's the fact that this has been building and building for a week straight now, and Twilight has a tendency to go overboard with anything she sets her focus on. That's the entire reason Lesson Zero happened in the first place: she forgot about something because she was too focused on OTHER things and had become accustomed to Spike remembering that part of her schedule, and rapidly descended into her own special brand of madness to correct her mistake, without properly considering the consequences of her actions in those hectic moments.
This happens to a lot of people, especially geniuses. They're so smart not just because there's something about their brains that makes them superior to any ordinary person, but rather, it's that they can FOCUS so intently on something that everything else gets shut out. This is both a good and a bad thing, as we see with Twilight in Lesson Zero, and even here. In Lesson Zero, she snapped out of it because she hadn't gone full-tilt and there was a clear indication that her actions had done some seriously bad stuff to those around her. In this story, she's been descending further and further into her obsessive control over Rainbow Dash's well-being because, as far as she's known up until now in the story, things have been just fine and dandy on Rainbow's end. That's a mistake on Rainbow's part, and Twilight's inability to read her lover's body language and subtle cues in her behavior is entirely her fault due to her lack of socializing while growing up.
I just don't know about this man. I don't want to discourage you or anything, (Selfishly assuming my opinion carries weight) but the only honest feedback I can offer is that this is bullshit. When people said they wanted feels, they meant good feels, not "What the fuck, why is Twilight being such an asshole" feels. Some of the shit you wrote here, (Figuratively, given the lack of quality in the characterization) wouldn't be all that out of place in a mindbreak/rape fic. My honest advice, is to go and write a story like that, if that's what you want to do, but if you're trying to write a happy story, this is most certainly not how it's done. The entire sub-theme for this chapter can be summed up by "Twilight is an overbearing, controlling boy/girlfriend who has no concern whatsoever for her girl/boyfriend." I mean, that was literally the only thing in this chapter. There was no upside, no relief to the tension, just more and more of the same stuff. and to be succinct, that stuff isn't what many people want to read.
Ways that this could be better... completely re-write this chapter, show some of the aftermath of what happened last chapter. I mean, didn't Twilight JUST get done being a ginormous dickhead to Rainbow? (Re-read, and it was actually chapter before last, my apologies) but you would still think that she would have gotten the fucking clue to be more communicative, and understanding of what Rainbow wants. With things the way they are now, you've shown that Twilight is completely incapable of learning from her mistakes, and that this is an abusive, controlling relationship. I could bring up that stupid meme "Still a better love story than Twilight" But I think I'm going to start a sub-meme called "Still a better love story than 'The Benefits of Friendship Come With Consequences' and use it on message boards that discuss Twilight. You're not a bad author, you're above average at clop, but holy shit. If you keep up with this tone for the story, I don't think many people will read it, let alone like it.
about this chapter... I don't know...
I like to see Twilight this overbearing and I think that this is ok as the reason why was because she wanted to protect her kid.
However, completely overlooking her friend is really odd... It almost feels like you did this before and we are simply relearning a lessen she should already know.
I liked how you brought it back with Twilight letting Rainbow make the decisions but then you killed that with Rainbow not wanting her job back and Twilight going to far with it and no longer trusting herself to make ANY decisions.It would have been a great moment to develop a shared partnership in the relationship with Rainbow learning that 'some' of what Twilight wanted was good, and Twilight learning she cannot control every aspect of Ranibow's life.
Was there feels? Yes... Were they good feels? I don't know.
I'm hesitant to see where you go from here.
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She's also never dealt with something as personally big as impending parenthood. You keep harping about Twilight only controlling her own life...well Rainbow and the foal are now PART OF HER LIFE.
And fine, let's stop looking at Lesson Zero...and instead look at It's About Time. There, Twilight continually escalates her means of trying to prevent the disaster she thinks is coming. It starts out with just getting Ponyville caught up on some town maintenance (which, judging from the dam, probably averted a real disaster), but then starts escalating as the signs of the impending 'disaster' keep mounting. Suddenly she's gone 'MONITOR EVERYTHING!' and when THAT doesn't work, she decides she's just gonna permanently stop time. Note that at no point does she think about, say, informing Celestia about a possible incoming disaster or anything. No, she has to solve this herself. And she doesn't lose this mentality at all until it's pretty much shoved in her face that she was worrying over nothing. As pointed out, she didn't pull back from trying to stop time, she just couldn't figure out HOW to do it within the time limit she had.
I think the real reason people aren't liking this chapter is that, while it is perfectly in character for a Twilight freakout, here it's NOT being played for laughs. We're seeing Twilight Snapple being played deadly serious, and, surprise surprise, it's SCARY.
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I'm not arguing back anymore. I'm done. I added my two cents and that's as far as I'm willing to take this. Opinions are opinions and people will always have different opinions.
I'd like to take a moment, however, to also point out that both of those episodes (It's about time and lesson zero) are about Twilight learning a growing The entire series has been. Doesn't that count for something? Couldn't it be said she learned something from those experiences and grown into a different pony than she was then?
Either way, I'm done until the next chapter goes live.
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If you were 'done', why bother continue to try to make points? Just like having the last word?
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Yes, the entire show's about learning from one's mistakes and growing as an individual. Just the same, many have to re-learn those lessons, and sometimes we have to be reminded. This is a deeply-ingrained part of Twilight's personality, it's not just something she's going to learn to 'get over'. She obsesses, she focuses, she makes mistakes, like any normal person does. Even Applejack, after learning that she can depend on her friends, still tends to be stubborn and self-reliant unless she's absolutely sure she can't handle something on her own.
In fact, let's bring up a specific scene that comes to mind when I think of Twilight's tendency to obsess over things, from....euuuuggghh....Equestria Girls.
That took place clearly after Twilight became an alicorn, and in one very early-on scene, you know, when everyone was still ponies and such, Twilight begins to panic about some very specific details involving her new status as a Princess and having to rule her own kingdom potentially. All of these details are what she thinks might happen in the future, and she starts to freak out. The only thing that calms her down is a bump on the head from her slowly fluttering up into the ceiling, and Celestia showing up conveniently to set her mind at ease.
Obsessing over things is a core part of who she is, a core part of her personality and who she is, and until she finds a way to overcome that part of her and become a much more calm and laid back individual (or discover the Magic of Marijuana), she can learn from the mistake of trying to control her life and obsess over controlling it all she wants....she's going to keep making that mistake.
Since everyone else is discussing it, I guess I'll throw my two cents into the ring.
While I don't think Twilight was quite OOC in this chapter, she was pushed right up to the edge. She does have a history of obsessing over things and going crazy, but she's never gone this far before. On the other hand, she's never been worried about the safety of her own foal before either, so I can stretch my suspension of disbelief to cover most of her actions. The food, flying speed, work, and even wings I can buy as she goes crazier and crazier, though I am a bit mystified why she would care about how long Rainbow Dash takes a shower for or kissing for a few extra seconds.
I actually found Rainbow Dash to be more out of character than Twilight here. She's always been one to speak her mind without care for other pony's feelings. I just can't see her bottling up her anger at what Twilight is asking her to do, especially not for a whole week. It's true she's never had a girlfriend in the show, so maybe in this circumstance she would try to be a little mindful of what she says, but I can't imagine that lasting for more than a day with the way Twilight's been treating her.
All that said, I'm looking forward to the next chapter. I'm glad Twilight was called out in one chapter, because I don't know if I could have taken too much more of her with how monstrous she was acting. Hopefully Cadence and/or Shining Armor can talk some sense into her.
Wow. Was anyone else thinking of a different Twilight when reading this chapter? One written by a certain Stephanie Meyer? Abusive girlfriend much, Twilight? Holy shit.
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Definitely, but the worst kind. The kind who other people might agree is trying to do the right thing too.
That's the real problem Twilight's had. First, she's massively A-type personality, which is the underlying issue. But she never really *did* learn her lesson from Lesson Zero or It's About Time. Sure, ostensibly she learned not to freak out over little things, and that she can't control everything in the world to make sure nothing bad ever happens.
But she never learned that there are consequences to her obsessive need for control.
What happened in Lesson Zero because of her little riot? She disappointed Celestia, but she didn't lose anything. Indeed, the entire lesson could be seen in terms of her dreadful fear of consequences itself being one of those silly fears she needed to overcome. It's About Time? She was exhausted and felt silly. If this was Rarity, that might've done the trick, but this is Twilight.
Then you factor in that she has actually been rewarded numerous times for her micromanagement and obsessive need to control everything - Winter Wrap-Up? Canterlot Wedding?
She has never actually learned that her micromanagement is something that's likely to cost her in the long run.
And now, she's not just dealing with her life. She's not just dealing with Rainbow's life. The two of them would probably already be at each others' throats trying to live together just because of the Odd Couple factor.
But with how I've already seen normal, everyday, non-obsessive people freak out over having a baby? Living with Twilight would be Hell. And in this chapter, she learned that Rainbow was escaping from that Hell every chance she got - sneaking sweets, ignoring dietary rules, spending time at work on a potentially dangerous job.
Most obsessives given that sort of slap in the face? They'd respond by calling their girlfriend in sick and then telling her that work called and said they didn't need her today. They'd try to do... well... exactly what Twilight does. They'd try to arrange it so that their partner doesn't need to go to work. The difference between a Twilight Sparkle and a typical abusive, obsessive boyfriend is that Twilight doesn't have to manipulate things to make it happen - she just has to call and say "this is what you're doing," and it's done!
Rainbow was very right to be afraid of Twilight. And I'm not entirely sure that's changed yet.
Well, I can say this much; Rainbow Dash is far more forgiving and tolerant than I could or would ever be.
If Twilight was levying restrictions on me left and right I would have told her about herself within the first two weeks, and broke things off. I don't care what kind of excuse she had, I don't like people telling me how to live my life, let alone forcing their beliefs down my throat.
I'm not sure about this Twilight, she tend to overthink and overeact, but reaching the extreme to cut Rainbow's wings, blacklisted from getting jobs, no thanks. What Twilight would do is maybe make Rainbow wear a armor or cast a spell to protect her. And Rainbow, well she always say that is in her mind.
In this chapter you make me want to slap this Twilight.
Well, lets see what you will do in the next chapter, because this one was extremely OOC.
i've been wondering when rainbow would finally call twilight out for going over the deep end. she held out longer then i thought she would. i mean, i'd have flipped maybe a few days after it all started, not weeks.
What the hell Twilight?
That was... well, I would not have found that version of Twilight Sparkle out of place at the beginning of a "Twilight cuts off Rainbow Dash's wings and then gets worse from there" gorefic. Particularly since she was explicitly *considering* that option. I don't think it really needed that; that's more 'no healthy relationship can really come back from one participant actively planning to mutilate the other.' The ridiculousness in the bathroom timing, too. If it had been getting overly controlling on diet, and had an on-screen fight over Dash's exercise and work culminating in Twilight using her princessly authority to get her way, that could have played much cleaner. But for me? I'm basically looking at Dash as completely broken at this point, not even really believing she can get away. Which again is a lot more of a horror situation.
frankly I felt like she would have been better off with sombre at that point ... is it wrong I wanted to summon Daedra and eradicate pone Ville if necessary to save dash from twilight even if it made the entire settlement burn and every last non foal pony well be sent to oblivion.
And Twilight is now unlikeable. Sigh... I mean as tired and cliche as her worries in "Day One" were at least they were kinda plausible... Maybe. Now? Twilight is frankly a horror villain and Rainbow is pushing the boarders of idiocy to even still be near her. Dead god Twilight, so much for a happy relationship.
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but every relationship has their problems. This one is just that Twilight is a control freak... i mean who didn't see it coming? ReallY!?
Since I what to like this story I'm going to have to pretend this chapter does not exist. In fact the only reason I'm going to continue reading is because, for the most part, this is contained in this one chapter.
6337777 it would make sense if, and only if it's revealed as side-effects from the spell.