When a single, pointless fight shatters the love of a lifetime, the story we all thought we knew changes in ways that nopony could have expected.
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3948957
Maybe so, but when Twilight messed up Celestia didn't say "Oops, better send her to Siberia with no chance of coming back," she tried to calmly figure things out herself. As things stand it does feel like Shining was tossed on a bus so there's nothing between Twilight and Cadance.
3948997
Yes, precisely. Pretty much everypony goes "Well, sucks to be him" and "he deserved it anyway".
3944022
This as well! I mean, come one, Celestia basically threw him away. He has good reason to be furious.
there a grammatical error, here:
" but she followed it like any good scientist, to it’s own conclusion"
it should be "its"
aside from that, this chapter was very very good
3945889
oh well... looks like I was just wrong then
Very nice story, i really like the unique touches.
Have to ask though, is twilight war on hold?
This Twilight is very... Different. Different but also the same. Like a song sung to a different beat. You recognize it, but it is different enough to make you think.
Great chapter! Can't wait to see how Twi's plan works out.
3948997 Very much this.
Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying the story, but Shining was not handled particularly well.
3949421
Last I read in the blog this is a bit of a mood uplift from twilight war's grim dark.
Very effective too in my opinion.
3948997
Hmmm, ya know.
I don't think this is the authorial intent but I just realized this could be viewed in the lens of Equestria being a little bit leaning towards Matriarchal sexism.
Then again it could just be cronyism or nepotism.
Celestia has a few ways to solve a problem.
But She chooses to do it in the manner that shining is removed from the equation (but still given all of his professional dreams a chance to thrive of course, must always be looking out for her little ponies happiness).
It's an interesting idea anyway.
This story continues to march off to an interesting horizon.
I'm even more curious how the trip to Ponyville and Nightmare Moon's return is going to play out than I was before.
I assume you're going to take this all the way up to the Changeling attack? So we've got Nightmare Moon, Grand Galloping Galla, and Discord to go through. At least those are the major events anyway.
3949962
You know, that sounds spot on to me.
Am I forgetting anything?
Oh yes.
Where's Spike?
I can imagine what Twilight says to Rainbow Dash, "You act just like Spitfire" and never get a moment rest because of it. It only get worse once Rarity find out her ties to people that are the center to the Industry.
3948957 3948997
I think the author is well and truly onto something here. She was running damage control for two hormonal teens and avoiding another Nightmare situation like with her sister (possibly). Over kill? Maybe, maybe not. She could have some healthy fear of Cadence's powers actually. At least with Luna she understood her sisters powers to an extent as they supposedly grew up together and they both move the celestial bodies, not peoples hearts.
I don't think this is a fair example as Celestia was dealing with the after effects of Twilight's goof up, not running preventative measures. Also, this story is depicting Celestia as having ulterior motives and aiming for something, likely the coming events as she sees through destiny or prophecy. Also, Twilight is involved in said prophecy where Shining armor is not once Celestia concludes he isn't going to be Cadence's mate.
3948957
What prolonged period? She exiled him to as remote a place as she could find the same day, with no attempt at all to even see what other options might be available.
And if she's that dangerous and that unstable, maybe it's Cadence who ought to be kept as far away from any contact with others as possible. She certainly isn't fit to be anyone's wife, I can see it now. "Honey, I can't make it tonight, something's come up.", cue the Want-It-Need-It apocalypse. So why? Oh, that's right, Cadence is still useful to her.
What, the next time there are diplomatic disputes with say the griffons she'll go ahead and drop the sun on them at the first sign of trouble too? It's about the same level of scorched-earth approach to problem solving.
I realize the object was simply to get Shining out of the way for the Candlelight romance, but I have to say it wasn't handled particularly well, unless the intent was for Celestia to come across as a corrupt tyrant.
3950137
That makes it worse, not better. In what way are more drastic measures justified when someone hasn't done anything wrong, as opposed to after they have?
Which, given what an utter piece of Bad word! Celestia is showing herself to be, only makes me pray for the utter downfall of said prophecy, whatever it's about. Watch your manipulative schemes crash and burn, bitch.
And as we all know, how decently one ought to treat others depends entirely on how useful they are to you.
3950256
When said drastic measures could prevent the meltdown of a heart controlling young alicorn? Cadence is still a teenager at this time and young people feel emotions a lot more strongly than older people since they have less years of experience to even things out.
What's more, it seems that you, and everyone else upset by this, assume this is a bad thing. That it is a punishment to Shining Armor. Like, Shining armor has been sent to prison or something, when it most certainly isn't so black and white. He's enlisted by choice, he remains in the program, by choice, and he has continually stayed in this program. By. Choice. This isn't boarding school for trouble children, it's an elite training ground for elite soldiers. He could have resigned before being shipped out or anytime afterwards, but he didn't.
Give him some credit, he's a grown stallion. It may be away from his family, but this is part of his dream. You're making a lot of assumptions based on a perspective of this being a horrible fate where little information was given outside of this being an extreme training ground. Heck, while you feel pity over this he could be enthusiastically, and happily, throwing himself into his training to become the very best while seeing this as an opportunity.
I'd say the only thing Celestia did "wrong" here by any stretch is simply not giving him time to say goodbye.
This is fun. Am I detecting a different set of elements being set up, here?
3950368
We assume it's a punishment for Shining Armor because that's how it's presented. How else are we to take "send him away, don't let him come home if possible, no contact to his former girlfriend"? Especially as Celestia notes it's because of his "bumbling", and she makes the decision in anger? And everypony in story acting like he's a horrible individual?
I may not agree with Deamon's tone, but I can certainly understand his frustration.
So there's still about nine years until Nightmare Moon returns? Or did I miscount?
3950700
This is her exact quote. She's being strict, truly I don't think anyone would contest that, but to say it's evil is another thing. She even provisions if he's excellent, or finished, he's to be brought back. Insinuating incentives for excelling, incentives he may actually not be going through with in lieu of focusing more on training.
The family was upset with him at the start but after that there hasn't been mention of it outside of Twilight feeling upset of the matter. I actually found that to be the saving grace of the story. Emotions are rarely rational, why shouldn't she feel hurt that he chose his training over being with her and their parents? She even points out that she understands him following his dream though she's still hurt by it. The schism between the two siblings growing with absence makes sense. As for his parents being mad at him, they were at the start but we haven't heard from them in 6 years, I'm sure they're rooting for their son now and missing himeveryday. I've seen parents upset when their "idiot son" lets a good girl slip him by, so this whole scene was VERY real.
I'll also add that Shining himself is distant in his relationships in the show considering how he never bothered to visit Twilight in Ponyville to meet her friends nor did he ever write to tell her about marrying Cadence, let alone dating her. So, I don't see him not visiting much, or trying to fight to stay with his family more, as out of character for him in any way.
Bottom line, there is plenty of reason to think this is NOT a case of the author throwing Shining armor under the bus. Too much side information and snippets have been set up to paint a different picture, enough of one that I'm not about write it off as a "screw him" choice of an author.
3950700
I reeeeeeally don't want to get into this argument, but I actually have to respectfully disagree. Yes, Celestia makes the decision in anger, and maybe it's not the absolute best one, but nothing written implies that she's doing it to punish Shining Armor—just protect the development of a heartbroken girl under her guidance.
I mean really, there's not much question about it. The section is from her perspective and we have access to her thoughts:
Not a single word implies that she thinks bad of Shining Armor or blames him in any way.
3950850
Not a single word?
3950810
I'm afraid I cannot agree. To me, it still reads like a punishment for Shining Armor, and an arbitrary one at that.
As for thinking the author threw him under the bus: I do not remember arguing that.
3950895
Yes, not a single word.
The sentence you quoted couldn't be more focused on the message of protecting Cadance by keeping Shining Armor away from her so that she can move past her relationship with him. She outright refers to his actions as bumbling—a mistake—and all of her focus is on the effect said actions will have on Cadance.
3950974
So cutting off any and all communication between them because of present and future mistakes (which are entirely assigned to him and considered inevitable) is not thinking badly of him or assigning blame?
3951019
Correct.
People—and ponies—make mistakes. It happens, especially when it comes to love. We react to these mistakes and the situations they create, but we don't have to hold it against them.
Shining Armor made a mistake, and as a result his presence has become distracting and distressing to Cadance. Celestia decides to separate them for Cadance's sake. There is no indication that she wishes ill on Shining Armor as a result of his actions, she just wants those actions as far away from Cadance as possible, and she fast-tracks him through his career path in order to do so.
Ugh. I said I didn't want to get into this argument in the first place. We're not getting anywhere, so lets please just agree to disagree.
3951135
Agreed.
Well, the way I see it, is that Celestia has a plan. Think about it, Celestia is urging Cadence to find another love interest - I think Celestia got rid of Shining Armor because he was a liability. It seemed like Shining didn't love Cadence anymore, so Celestia chose to cut her loses rather then try to fix their relationship.
Or it could be as simple as protecting Cadence in her heartbroken state.
Also, the actors change? That's... ominous. I can picture it now; Princess Twilight Sparkle and Princess Cadence of the Crystal Empire! Oh, and Shining Armor and Flash Sentry shipping. It would be funny.
Also, if Twilight is bad at dancing, why doesn't she get Fleur to help her out? Or Cadence?
Did you know this story has almost as many likes as 'The Twilight Struggle'? Just goes to show how awesome you are, I guess.
You know, is it weird that I can't stand the thought of a gay human couple in a fanfiction or real life (I don't hate them, I just get uncomfortable), but I'm perfectly fine with gay pony couples?
Oh well, life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get...
3951242 Might I ask why? We don't bother anyone, and just because there are gay couples doesn't mean you have to be a part of one.
This story is pretty awesome. I love it. I really like the way Fleur De Lis is characterized in this. There is only one problem with this story, I'm reading it faster than the author is producing it.
Also Fleur is quite the French potty mouth. Where is the bar soap kept around here anyways?
okay i'm not afraid to say it, you lost me. I thought something interesting was going to happen with chrysalis, not devolve into a homosexual (description not condemnation.) story pairing cadence and twilight.
It seems like you merely used chrysalis as an excuse for the time being and reall unless something else happens with her it will be categoried as an excuse for a startup.
It was a good story, written well good details. The writer in me like it very much so, don't get me wrong all you fans who are hovering over the dislike button. I just don't like the story topic and as such i will not continue reading. Maybe someone can try taking the same beginning and turning it into something else
3951884 Did you even look at the story art and tags?
3952024
I think I've gotta agree with the guy your quoting though mate. I mean any number of possible things could have altered the chain of events with something like say Derpy accidentally dropping a wash basin on Shining's head while training to be a mailmare or something that doesn't actively involve Chrysalis as it seems that she was just used as a Plot device, which when something like that happens makes you really, REALLY wonder if the plot device was actually relevant or if something else could have worked just as well.
3949831
3948997
3949027
What else would Celestia do? As I have previously stated, alicorns seem to be incredibly susceptible to negative emotions. Our proof of this is Luna, obviously. Luna went crazy because of her jealousy of Celestia because ponies sleep during the night. So what else is Celestia to do, let her emotionally unstable niece who controls the powers of love be around somepony who just stopped loving her? Celestia is being a bitch, yes, but she can't help it -she's a politician. I always thought of her as being manipulative, but she is loving while doing it. Celestia plans on making Twilight Sparkle a princess, if she didn't send Shinning Armor away who knows what would have happened?
3951364
I have a similar issue(not homophobic, I seriously could not care less) with slash fics. I think it comes down to feeling the character's love interest through the lens of your own orientation. I'm straight, so I can understand what a male or female character finds attractive in a female. I'm unable to point out what would be attractive in a male except by observing what people interested in that gender find attractive. I'm not uncomfortable with it, I just can't invest in the character interaction so the act of reading it becomes a chore to get through to something I can relate to. Not sure if that's what he was saying, but that's how it kind of works out for me.
As for the fic, this is probably the best Twidance fic I've read. Unfortunately that is a pretty rare ship, but this stands high on its own merits.
3952380 What else could Celestia do? Hell if I know, but it probably should have been something other than radically upsetting Shining's life because of reasons that are no fault of his own. Good thing for Shining that it wasn’t more convenient to have his head lopped off, I'm not sure I trust the Celestia presented in this story to have any sense of restraint.
3952469
If it were necessary, I'm sure she would. For princess and country, right?
3952499 And that's exactly the problem here. Cadance is not more equal than Shining.
3952535
..More equal?
3947783 Remember, not every religious person is like that. I for one am a proud Catholic and abhor the bad rep name some people have given us. Faith needs to come naturally. With that said, let's enjoy are lesbian clop fic for what it is.
3952545 Sorry, mildly obscure literary reference. Roughly speaking, it refers to an upper class of individuals having more inherent rights and privileges than a lower class even in a society founded in theory on freedom for all (yeah, I know I butchered that, but it was the shortest Animal Farm summary I could come up with on short notice).
You're probably thinking "She's a Princess, of course she had more rights and privileges!" and you would probably be right. Even so, unless Celestia actually is a tyrant, she almost certainly has constitutional restrictions (or possibly just internal, morality based restrictions) on what she can order done to her citizens. For example, I doubt she could go off her rocker and order the guard to start killing ponies in the street without shit hitting the fan in very short order.
3952366 I really don't get what you're complaining about to be honest. The events you nominated as alternatives to what actually transpired in the story are utterly contrived. Chrysalis' intervention makes sense. She has a motive to fuck up the timeline. She also had the opportunity to obtain the materials to do so, as well as the magical aptitude.
3952469 Also, I'm construing this comment as nth-degree hyperbole. Because shifting someone training under those in her employ -- without going out of her way to compromise whatever opportunities may arise for him professionally -- because they're a distraction to someone she's got a personal interest in the wellbeing of isn't the same as taking heads and putting them on pikes.
3952461 Thanks, but that's not what I meant. SurpriseKitty said how he was uncomfortable about gay people in real life. I want to know why he's uncomfortable about gays in real life.
3952780
I missed that part. I thought he was only talking about fanfics
Quick thing, you skip three years ahead at the start of Ch2, then four years ahead at the start of this one, but then say it's been six years since Shining left. Might want to re-work the math there.
3952679 Sure, it was hyperbole. But this:
Is exactly the problem. Celestia should not be letting her personal interests overrule her professional responsibilities in running the guard. The fact that she is willing to do so means she does not have a great deal of respect for the lives of the ponies under her command.
If Shining does not end up the Captain of the Royal Guard in this story, that directly means she screwed over his professional career for the benefit of her niece since we know he would have otherwise made that position without her meddling.
Shining's training was how long again? Time lapses are annoying.
So when is Shining returning, and basically forgotten Cadence? I mean, years of training, if anything, once Luna is back he is given the duty to help Luna in her modernizing.
3953038 Prescribing any and all mistakes Shining may make in a different environment to Celestia's decision to have him relocated elsewhere for training doesn't make sense. It could be that his involvement with Cadance in the canon continuity may have had something to do with him rising to his position in the guard, rather than by his own merits; who can say?
It's rather obvious that Celestia is playing the long game. We're also not privy to the entirety of the argument that Cadance and Shiny had -- though it's easiest to assume that Shiny dumped her or said words to that effect before or after her attempt to manipulate him with her magic. But Shining was presumably proving to be a distraction or a disruptive influence on Cadance, whom Celestia presumably has slated for the impending return of the Crystal Empire (or some other unknown purpose), and so having him moved elsewhere -- and I'm not sure about how the training works in this story, but I'd imagine he could opt out of it if he wished -- to continue his training strikes me as more of a compromise despite Celestia's words about his 'bumbling' than a vindictive act.
This story's Celestia seems much... colder... than many interpretations of her. I'd like to avoid the debate raging here over how she handled Shining Armor, but the bit in this chapter about her pressuring Cadence to 'find a mate' doesn't sound like the warm, motherly figure Celestia is usually assumed to be (barring outlandish joke-interpretations of her character like Tyrant!Celestia and Trollestia).
However, for me at least (clearly, not for everyone), this unusual treatment of Princess Celestia did not distract from the story itself. The slow build-up of the bonds between Twilight and Cadence is what is at the core of the story so far, and that much of it is excellent. I do wonder where this is leading, but I am willing to wait and find out.
I need more, Its killing me, keep up the good work.
3950368
Rubbish. He's sent away because he upset Celestia's niece, it's a simple as that. She did it to get rid of him, that is quite clearly stated. The fact that it's to an officer training course simply provided Celestia with a convenient excuse to eject his ass while still being able to pretend it wasn't a punishment. Spare me the rationalizations.
3950810
Less under the bus, more Put On A Bus. And the point you keep ignoring is that whatever fairness you think she's displaying in her treatment of him, none of it changes the fact that it's still exile, intended purely to send him as far away as possible; all other considerations are clearly secondary in her mind.
3952263
Well said. It's a hackneyed plot device, nothing more.
3952380
How about try to talk about it before completely ripping up his life? There were plenty of options she could have tried before resorting to blatant abuse of power.