This seems to be highly subjective, so I'd like to know if anyone here can say with certainty where "the line" is between Teen and Mature.

Specifically, I'm not referring to sexual content. So I'm asking how far a story can go and still be rated Teen despite violence, gore, and disturbing scenarios.

What concerns me is that the Mature rating is probably a killer for enormous stories which want to maximize their target audience and be visible to people without them having to create an account on fimfiction. The thing is, the vast majority of Mature stories are rated that way due to being clop fics. And story elements such as violence and gore are going to be things which aren't really age dependant when it comes to how much a particular person can handle. Some fourteen-year-olds can handle graphic war stories with blood and guts, where some thirty-year-olds cannot. So how does one determine where the borderline is between T and M?

4952253

It's pretty subjective. I have a T-rated story with an obvious, though not graphic, sex scene in it. It pretty much depends on how you handle the description. If you're uber-descriptive when it comes to blood, guts and gore, it'll be M, but if it's handled tastefully (i.e. the textual equivalent to cutting away before the gore is seen) then it'll be T.

4952253
I like to think if the violence is thickly detailed then it becomes M.

Example, saying a character had an eye torn out would be a T rated story. If the writer described that eye getting torn out in all it's gory details, THAT would be M, at least in my mind.

Hope that helped.

4952253 As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if it's not obvious, you should just ask a mod. And if it should be obvious and you get it wrong, don't worry! They'll tell you anyway. They're surprisingly hard-working.

4952253
I'd say Invader Zim level gore is about the limit of what you can get away with a teen rating.

4952253 I agree with everyone thus far.

Basically, mature stories have heavily detailed gore or sex, etc. But a teen rating would have tags of gore and sex, but they don't go into as much detail. You're trying to keep the word specific detail to the rating, but it can suggest that an event happened without actually going into detail about the event. It's all about evasion really.

4952256

Example, saying a character had an eye torn out would be a T rated story. If the writer described that eye getting torn out in all it's gory details, THAT would be M, at least in my mind.

Actually that does help quite a bit. I think that's a really interesting way to look at it.

It's still highly subjective, but there is something distinctly different between telling and showing here. And that comes out in the prose. There's a lot of times I describe a gory scene, even with detail, but it could be so much more graphic if I tried. And in the example of an eye getting torn out, the mind can fill in some pretty nasty details just by being told what happened. And yet it's not really that shift which the prose goes through when the author really revels in the minute details of it.

4952268

And if it should be obvious and you get it wrong, don't worry! They'll tell you anyway. They're surprisingly hard-working.

Yeah, I guess that's kind of how I've been proceeding. I figure if a mod comes along and says "Dude this should be M rated" I can tone it down a bit. It's probably not worth the M rating for the reasons I've already stated. It just kills the size of the target audience. And most people know that sensitivity to gore and violence is not really the same thing as sensitivity to explicit sex. So the M tag really ought to be independent between the two. I tend to think "M for violence" shouldn't really even be a thing here on fimfiction. Unless it's some kind of glorifying of the worst aspects of violence, like Cupcakes.

4952273
Sorry, not familiar with that.

4952281
I find that annoying - really, the whole "evasion" thing reminds me of political correctness rather than responding for valid reasons. I mean, if you describe a violent scene in a way that brings the mind's eye to the exact same place as the person who read the full explicit details, then have you not essentially told the exact same story and had the exact same effect on the reader?

There are some mighty creative ways you can create a gruesome image in someone's mind without really even saying anything at all. I read a story once which used a monopoly piece to represent Celestia. And then later it was melted to have the wings and horn taken off, making it an earth pony. It was then implied that this is what happened to Celestia. So the reader gets an image in their mind of the alicorn having her horn and wings literally torn off, without the scene even existing.

Something else which I think is a factor (or at least should be) is how relentless the violence is in a story. As in, how much of a percentage of the story is taken up by these depictions. One would hope that if the violence is heavy but very brief, that it would be rated lighter than a story which was a nonstop gorefest.

4952253

Here's how I sort of gauge it, and it's worked pretty well thus far. I just ask 'Would they show that on The Sopranos?'. If so, it's mature, if not, well it's probably Teen. It's not really a perfect system. Normally I'd post a video to sort of give an idea, but, I don't know if I could find anything tame enough to put here.

4952312
Not familiar with The Sopranos either...

Maybe I'll just keep moving forward with Teen and wait for someone to complain. If nobody does, then it's all good I suppose. Darn this subjective stuff.

4952287

I tend to think "M for violence" shouldn't really even be a thing here on fimfiction

Why? Because violence is less disturbing than consensual sex?

Why are acts of hate more suitable for young people to read about than acts of love?

4952326 Hate is the easiest emotion to muster, whereas love takes more effort to truly understand.

4952253 Descriptive gore/sex is usually the cut off point, I think. You can describe such things in a Teen Rated story, but they won't go into as much detail. Like if you say: "Rainbow Dash slashed a diamond dog in two." That's not terribly descriptive. But if you were to talk about entrails and blood, then yes that would be considered M-rated gore. The same applies to describing sex scenes.

I'll admit that the vast majority of the stories I write are, in fact, M-rated. My reasoning behind that is: I don't like to be shackled to Teen Rated content if I want to add extra content (such as gore or in many cases sex/intimacy). I just feel as though some authors on this site specifically make their stories have a lower rating and add Mature content later, so they can ruthlessly maximize their viewer count by giving their readers supposedly "lost" chapters.

We all know they were gonna put that in the story in the first place. It's rather dishonest, in my opinion. I don't like to do that. People know what they're getting themselves into when they read my stories. Sorry if I got off on a tangent...I have a rather strong opinion on this particular subject.

4952337
Foalcon is worse than violence towards foals?

4952326 It's more actually, but our cultures collective prudishness may have a lot to do with the ratings been more harsh on sex. But at the end I'll let a 15-year old watch a Tarantino Movie, and I'll also lend him my porn. At the end of it, It's more along the lines of the actual maturity of the individual, if the I know beforehand that the kid is an ass that will gloat for days about watching porn then I wont lend him squat. If he/she can't handle the sight of blood then I won't show them a Tarantino movie. It's really a mater of the individual.

I personally will keep my stories teen until told otherwise. Mostly due to the lack of sexual content. And the Horror is mixed with adventure, not to mention the fact that even then the violence is mostly at the same vein as Hellboy. And rarely will I go to Wolfenstien: The Old Blood levels. But that's just me...

4952326
Well, honestly? I don't personally think children (teens especially) are incapable of handling knowledge of sex any more than violence. But the Western culture seems to be much more sensitive to sexual depictions than graphic violence. Walking Dead anyone? I mean seriously, that show has zombies literally eating live people.

As for fimfiction, I do think the whole rating system is pretty messed up. If it were set up pragmatically rather than to please external powers that be, then I suppose it would need a solid overhaul. There should definitely be a "clop" tag for example. And when it comes to "what is suitable for young people" that really is an incredibly subjective thing.

I mean, I've shown my daughter movies at the age of seven which I know a lot of parents won't show their thirteen year old boys. She honestly doesn't mind. We play Fallout 4 together. She has no problem with violence in media because she understands that it's not real. And she's still at the age where "kissing is gross" so I couldn't say how she'd take sexual stuff. I tend to stay away from that anyway though - the culture is rather unforgiving when it comes to anything combining children and sex no matter how loose the connection.

So I'm aware that the ability to "handle" graphic violence in a work of fiction depends more on the mental state (and personality) of the reader than it depends on their physical age. There are many adults who I would never expose to a story containing cannibalism, for instance. Who here would feel comfortable with their grandma reading that? So in many ways, I think the more recent generations are actually less disturbed by disturbing things than the older generations.

4952295 agreed.

So, if a story is just blood, blood, blood or sex, sex, sex with no rest, then you're really pushing the line.

As a personal rule, I try and keep my distance from the border, rather than constantly pushing it.

So if you want a story to be teen, then write it as such, rather than trying to see how close you can get to mature without crossing the line. Because with that mind set, you crossed the line long before you wrote anything. If you want something mature, than write it as such.

4952295 The truth of the matter is that violence rarely lasts very long outside of an actual war. Skilled soldiers and fighters are in fact trained and told not to prolong fights, and to avoid violence whenever possible. Trust me, street brawls last about a couple of minutes at most.

4952326 A fair point. Well put, my friend.
however, I'm inclined to think there is a difference between 'making love' and sex.
One is exactly that, an expression of love, that can be physical.
Sex, in this sense, can be selfless or selfish. Physical or emotional.

For those who regard making love as something special, they try not to casualise it too much.

But I agree 110% with what you said about violence.
Star Wars is fun.
LoTR is fun.
But there is such a thing about too much, and it shouldn't be casualised by fantasy.

4952347

But the Western culture seems to be much more sensitive to sexual depictions than graphic violence.

I wouldn't say this of Western culture in general, but it seems to be true of American culture.

In Idaho for example, it's legal for a 12 year old to own a gun *, but illegal for a 17 year old to have sex.

In the Netherlands though, it's legal for a 12 year old to have sex †, but illegal for almost anybody to own a gun.

* though they would need the written consent of one of their parents
† though establishing consent between the ages of 12 and 16 is more legally tricky than after 16.

4952253
Personally, I look at it the same way I look at films and TV. If the content in the story would warrant an R, a TV-MA, or any equivalent mature rating, then I'd give it a Mature.

4952343

I personally will keep my stories teen until told otherwise. Mostly due to the lack of sexual content. And the Horror is mixed with adventure, not to mention the fact that even then the violence is mostly at the same vein as Hellboy. And really will I go to Wolfenstien: The Old Blood levels. But that's just me...

Funny, this is word for word how I've been proceeding as well. I have several "sex scenes" for example, which are so incredibly mild that they could barely be considered to be sex scenes at all. Where you know what they are doing, but it skims straight past anything detailed. I don't even have a sex tag for that reason.

But the violence... it's not really anything worse then a Doom videogame, and show me a teenager who hasn't seen that kind of thing.

4952350

So, if a story is just blood, blood, blood or sex, sex, sex with no rest, then you're really pushing the line.

For my main story, I'm going the route of intense, brief violence followed by chapters of incredibly clean storytelling where the characters react/respond/reflect on what happened. Because it's an adventure/mystery first and a war story second, I spend most of my prose time on the characters rather than extreme events. I'd say less than five percent of the reader's time will be spent in a violent scene. But those scenes are meant to be really intense, and the effects it has on the characters is correspondingly accurate for that reason.

I really dislike stories which relentlessly beat the reader over the head with nonstop violence. I don't think that depicts anything close to a realistic scenario which a reader can relate to. The whole point of storytelling is to provide an amazing hypothetical situation to the reader so that they can suspend disbelief for a moment and see how a character might actually handle an extraordinary scenario. So even when I depict things like a terrible injury, it affects the characters in ways you'd expect, rather than being like a videogame where they just eat a healthpack and are fine to continue fighting.

All of this goes toward the topic of rating in the sense that I think the nonstop violence grates on the nerves a bit too much. Curiously, The Immortal Game has spent years being rated Teen, but about a month or so ago it was changed to Mature. I'm not sure why. Though the story is disturbing, and the battles are incredibly long and unrealistic, it's still questionable whether it is "too much" for a teen to read.

So if you want a story to be teen, then write it as such, rather than trying to see how close you can get to mature without crossing the line. Because with that mind set, you crossed the line long before you wrote anything. If you want something mature, than write it as such.

Well, the problem with this is what I wrote above regarding the quantity of graphic violence. It's quite low in my story. Most of it is a very clean story full of characters trying to solve a deep mystery and deal with the main character's potentially dangerous changes. The focus is not on the violence by any means. But...! The violent aspects are a critical plot element in that the antagonist's plan could not exist without them being as horrific as possible because of the psychological effects it would have on the protagonist. So while I don't write violence "for the sake of violence" it is a part of the plot that these things exist.

Therefore, I do have to see how close I can get to "crossing the line" because I really don't want to lose the reader base by the story suddenly requiring a fimfic account with Mature enabled in order for people to access it. The reader base is already much smaller than I'd like it to be, and once I finish the story and begin publishing en masse, I definitely want it to have as much exposure as possible. A lot of my fans are teens as it is, anyway. I'd hate to suddenly exclude them due to a rating.

4952360

I'm inclined to think there is a difference between 'making love' and sex.
One is exactly that, an expression of love, that can be physical.
Sex, in this sense, can be selfless or selfish. Physical or emotional.
For those who regard making love as something special, they try not to casualise it too much.

Hmm. And perhaps this is why I'd like to avoid the sex tag like the plague despite having sex scenes. Mostly because it is not that kind of sex... It's all about love and expressions of deep, committed emotions.

Star Wars is fun.
LoTR is fun.

And the violence depicted in these movies is pretty extreme (but not explicit). It certainly isn't based on body count, that's for sure. How many die in Marvel movies? But you won't see any blood spilled. As if blood somehow is too much for a young mind to handle?? I fail to see how death is okay but blood is not.

4952365

In Idaho for example, it's legal for a 12 year old to own a gun *, but illegal for a 17 year old to have sex.

To be fair, responsible use of a gun is not the same as violence. I myself remember using the targeting range in the basement of my junior high school back in the day. Plinking .22 rounds into a paper target with a rifle was way fun, and we were all taught how to be responsible. But none of us would have been ready to handle anything like that depicted in Saving Private Ryan.

4952387

To be fair, responsible use of a gun is not the same as violence.

No, but it shows that society has a certain casual acceptance of devices whose intended purpose is to maim and kill.

I myself remember using the targeting range in the basement of my junior high school back in the day.

The fact that a junior high school even has a firing range perfectly illustrates my point.

we were all taught how to be responsible.

And, given your junior high school's apparent emphasis on responsibility, were you also given free condoms to practice using?

It all depends on your target audience. If you have a massive story that you want people to enjoy, but you still want to make it interesting, write it or edit it to fit your target audience. If you know that you want your story to have large amounts of graphic content and you want it to be for most everyone, then edit it to make the graphic scenes less graphic. However, a good general rule is that if your story is based around a graphic concept such as sex or gore, then mark is as mature. There is a big difference between a story with sex and a story based on sex.

To actually answer your question, there is not really a definitive line that defines what is mature and what is teen, as it is completely a matter of personal preference. Your best bet is to just write for your target audience and keep in mind that some things are more graphic and triggering than others and need to be left out of teen rated stories, such as extreme gore and torture.

4952398

casual acceptance of devices whose intended purpose is to maim and kill.

or protect. Even someone who learns martial arts can maim and kill with their bare hands. But everyone should be able to protect themselves and their loved ones.

And lol @ my school, because honestly I am very surprised in hindsight that a public school had a rifle range. It was 1982, though, so *shrug*. And no, of course they didn't hand out condoms. I'm not even sure they were widely used back in the early 80's. But I'll tell you straight up that I'd teach my kid to shoot a gun before giving contraceptives anyday. I know a lot of people see it the opposite, but I'm very firm on the idea that self-protection is everyone's right, and that it's up to parents to teach how that works.

4952400

It all depends on your target audience. If you have a massive story that you want people to enjoy, but you still want to make it interesting, write it or edit it to fit your target audience.

Yeah, that's the dilemma, really. I want the audience because the story is worth reading by those who have M turned off (and honestly a lot of adults have M turned off simply to avoid all the clop). That all by itself is a massive reason why I do not think it'd be fair to force someone's story to be rated Mature. Because Mature is associated with clop, and my story most certainly is not clop.

edit it to make the graphic scenes less graphic.

Right. And if it came down to it, I suppose I'd have to push it in that direction enough to cross back over that line. Which is kinda why I'm here asking where that line is. I do imagine this is something which the moderators have varying opinions on and handle on a case by case basis.

There is a big difference between a story with sex and a story based on sex.

And that's another good point. So a story based on graphic violence (Cupcakes?) would be obviously M, but a story with graphic violence might not be.

4952387

the violence depicted in these movies is pretty extreme (but not explicit).

Excellently put.

For the story you have thus described I'd accept it as a teen, for the reason that you can have intense violence and then quality story telling.
post-war fictions can be good at this. I admire that you want to keep your fictions to your audience. I think you've got a good idea of what you're gonna do.

I can see where you're coming from, with what you said about Marvel films. Slaughtering a group carelessly is just bloody and tasteless, but death, without having to be explicit, can have great impact on the reader. So yes, it is used as a device to show the gravity of a situation, also to set the scene of the fiction, and the world where it is based.

4952347 I agree, plus, there are three types of gore. Gag gore (Deadpool comics), Holy s*** gore (Evil Dead Remake), and Hell Yeah! gore (Quentin Tarantino movies) So it's really more on how you use it than when it's shown.

4952434

Thanks. And to clarify with an example, the most disturbing thing in my story is the existence of ponies who have been infected by something which turns them into essentially Reavers from the Firefly universe.

Keeping in mind that the movie Serenity is rated PG-13, look at the descriptions of these folks:

utter and complete madness. Showing no care for life, they are driven by an insane, homicidal and xenophobic aggression that manifests in the cannibalism, rape, and torture that they visit upon any unfortunate enough to come across them.

As a symptom of their insanity, they deliberately gash and cut their own flesh, and a Reaver is often covered in open or partially healed wounds. Barbaric piercings and random bits of metal shoved into their flesh are also common, giving them a ghastly and corpse-like air. They seem no physically stronger or tougher than normal humans- merely inured to pain to the point where they care nothing for their injuries or indeed their own lives, and more willing to push their bodies to the extreme because of their madness.
...
Reavers seem to prefer to subdue their victims. Those unfortunates who are rendered helpless or fall are either raped to death, eaten alive, flayed, or commonly all three, as well as other horrific depravities. After they finally escape into death, the Reavers will sew their skins into their clothing, and may very well either hang up the corpses as a gruesome trophy or strap them to their starcraft. Reaver craft are almost inevitably festooned with at least a few skeletons.

So... yeah, this is an actual thing. In a PG-13 movie. And they are pants-wetting terrifying, let me tell you.

Careful depiction in the prose is likely the key here. Even in Serenity we don't actually SEE anyone being raped to death or eaten alive. So there's that, I suppose.

4952253 Honestly, it's an interesting line. I almost never read M rated stories because 99% of the time they're just tasteless, emotionless clop fics. When it comes to blood and gore, I'm a bit odd, because I have absolutely no issues with reading about violence and gore. Seeing and hearing it? Dear god, I'm useless. I can't even look at the screen during the violent parts in movies. Even a little bit of blood freaks me out. I honestly don't know why I'm like that. So, I suppose, if gore in a story starts to disturb me even a little, then it should be M rated. Sex that's more descriptive than "And then they made love" is M rated.

4952326 Because in about 99% of clopfics, there is no love. It's purely for pleasure and lust. There's usually no emotion beyond desire. Exposing young people to this trivialises sex in the worst way. That's why sex in fics really isn't appropriate for younger people. Now, if the fic spends a while showing and building the relationship between the two lovers, then shows the emotions during the sex scene, then that's fine by me. Be as sensual and descriptive as you like, so long as it's clear that there are emotions involved. But in most cases of M rated stories here, the scenario is something like "Flash Sentry saw Twilight bending over and then they had sex".

4952398

Get of your high horse. While you do have a point. Story telling is meant to portray messages and ideas deeper than violence or sex to begin with. In many ways, reality is harsh and amoral so I believe that the purpose of fiction is to find meaning in such a reality despite it's very nature.

A world where nothing wrong ever happens seems too boring for me to contemplate. One has to depict these things in a way that is believable but does not cross the line of senseless indulgence. Trying to censor everything is a denial of history and the nature of people as a whole, and it is up us the story tellers to tell the message we wish to show through any means available to us.

The world is filled with too much injustice to concern ourselves with shielding ourselves from the very things we need to confront.

4952495

I almost never read M rated stories because 99% of the time they're just tasteless, emotionless clop fics. When it comes to blood and gore, I'm a bit odd, because I have absolutely no issues with reading about violence and gore.

Thank you for precisely representing the demographic which I am referring to! Because fimfic has such a strong association between M and clop, it would be fatal to my project to go M for the exact reason that people like you would skip it. Despite this, horrific violence is a part of the story (whether I depict it or not).

Sex that's more descriptive than "And then they made love" is M rated.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on my sanitized sex scenes, just out of my massive and sudden case of curiosity.

Because in about 99% of clopfics, there is no love. It's purely for pleasure and lust.

And yeah, I have the same issue with clop for the same reason. Which is why I underscore the relationship between my protagonists so heavily. There is no doubt whatsoever how much they love one another and what they mean to each other.

It seems we share very similar views on this. Although I'm a bit puzzled by your reactions to blood in a movie. But... I'm the same way in person. I can see absolutely anything in a movie and be fine. But if someone gets a cut which bleeds even a little and I see it in person, I get weird tingly "get me the hell out of here" sensations up and down my spine and the backs of my legs for some reason. Just gives me the creeps.

4952527 Yeah, I haven't a notion what my strange aversion to visual gore is. Strangely, I'm usually fine in person, so long as it's not horrific, like 'blood everywhere' horrific.

As for those 'sanitised sex scenes', if you send me a link I might give them a read and see if I think that should be T or M.

4952495 Which is why I avoid the M rating.... I don't write raunchy porn, I write Mystery Pulp stories with Horrors from the deepest confines of Mythology, and the way that the less savory kinds of ponies might abuse magic and power. Basically part Noir, part Indiana Jones.

4952544 The I'm insane because I went "HELL YEAH!" at Ash decapitating a Dedite with his chainsaw in the first episode of Ash vs. Evil Dead.

Mature is for explicit content such as gratuitous violence (limbs, organs, skin, flesh, way too much blood, etc.) or sex (most fetishes, too descriptive of being wet/hard, most anything at or past 2nd base)

Teen begins at profanity and any content you wouldn't see in the show itself (kissing, blood, violence) and stops where Mature begins.

This has to be at least the 10th time this year its been asked in this same group.

4952599

How many times was it the year before?

4952253 To quote one of the site staff:

"When balls touch."

4952253
Short version:
If you mention what your characters are doing or is happening to them, a T-rating is fine.
If you start writing about how they are doing said thing, you might want to go for the M-rating.

4952287 I think it also depends which story approver you get. I had to change the rating on one of my stories to Mature because I used the 'R' word in dialogue. The story approver wasn't appreciative of that.

4952599

Teen begins at profanity and any content you wouldn't see in the show itself (kissing, blood, violence)

I'm curious about the cutoff for violence, after Season 5 showed us legitimate battles (the finale; the family dispute episode).

4952681
Well, those "legitimate battles" were pretty tame. Throwing fruit, headlocks, and sissy-slapping each other. We see an army marching to battle with spears, but then they seem to drop them and go hoof-to-hoof. Seems like what we saw is about the limit of what they're allowed to put in the show.

4952681
4952910
So, basically...

What Meeester said seems to be a fairly good bar, although it's technically still subjective with the term "way too much" blood. I think I get the picture though, because there's a difference in portrayal between seeing the fountains of blood spraying about Kill Bill style, to the point where it paints the walls red, and, for example, stumbling across the aftermath of a horrific scene. In chapter six of my story, I've got the main characters doing exactly that, in fact. There's blood and guts strewn everywhere, but this is a scene which has already happened and the characters are horrified by it when it's discovered.

I think the key word here is from Meeester's post, and that is "gratuitous".

Adjective:
Being without apparent reason, cause, or justification
Unnecessary or unwarranted; unjustified
Done without good reason; uncalled for.

This, more than anything, really makes sense. In the case of something like Cupcakes, we have true gratuitous violence. There's no real reason for it. It's just violence for the sake of violence. But in the case of the Reavers from Firefly, it makes perfect sense why they would be as violent as they are, and they are actually acting in character by doing so. And more to the point, gratuitous violence does seem to be rather "Tarantino" for lack of a better word, since it's the kind of thing where you're following along with a story and then wham! a character decides to blow someone's head off because Reasons, or more specifically, because the director thinks the audience will enjoy seeing someone's head get blown off rather than it being a logical consequence of the circumstances the characters have found themselves in.

Also... has this really been asked over and over and over again? I can't tell because fimfiction has no search feature for forum posts. I suppose if it's a repeat topic, that means it's an important one and people truly want to understand it. The site rules are really vague, and as has been demonstrated quite clearly in this thread, the site's tags are terrible at the moment because of the heavy association between M and clop, thus causing people who would enjoy a gratuitously violent story to not see it because they switched the M filter on to filter out clop. Contrary to what many might think, there are a lot of adults out there who honestly don't like clop and find it annoying and (ironically) childish. Having a clop tag would solve this and then let people filter that independently of Mature.

4952312

I just ask 'Would they show that on The Sopranos?'. If so, it's mature,

"Rated M for sopressata, mortadella, pancetta, bresaola and assorted biscotti."

4952253 I have to say it does depend. While I do agree with the whole description hypothesis that more is Mature, I do believe that it also depends on the quantity of such scenes as well. For example I have a story in which there is only one "gore" scene where a pony like creature takes off her own head in gory detail before eventually throwing it at her victim. That story is Abandoned by Pinkie and it is rated Teen.

EDIT:

4953324 by the way love that comic.

4953728
Haha, that sounds similar to the kinds of things I'm gonna probably come up with for a scene later in the story where the heroes have to fight their way into the heart of Everfree (the forest having gone murderously crazy) and I need to come up with a whole bunch of crazy new monsters. I was thinking of taking some inspiration from the game Terraria.

But yeah, in a way, I don't think "blood and guts" in and of themselves are necessarily "Mature" as much as it depends on the context in which they appear. For example, if you describe someone taking a white hot iron rod and slowly forcing it into someone's eye while describing how that would have felt... yeah see that kind of thing I'd say is definitely Mature. But so many things about this topic seem to defy explanation. It's almost worth a study on what causes us to be revolted by things as human beings. And why some people are sensitive to some things while others are fine with them (which seems to have very little to do with age).

>> comic
Hehe. yeah, that one was so fitting after that episode.

4952326

The thing about why sex is taboo, I think really, if we're completely honest, is because it's rather gross and unnerving to viewers who aren't aroused by it. And I know, it's easy to think that's silly, until you're approached by a fetish you just don't get. Suddenly watching someone get off to a pair of feet... yea that's kinda gross. At it's core, sex is the exchanging of bodily fluids, which, pretty much objectively speaking, is very unpleasant to think about.

I know many folks want to blame religion, because it's always easy to blame someone else's beliefs for the world's problems. In truth neither the Bible, nor any other religious text that I'm aware of, says anything to condemn the depiction of sex in literature or entertainment of any kind. None of them condemn the depiction of what one does in the bathroom either. It's thought taboo for the same reason, in the end, it's gross.

Yes, that's a goofy reason, but it seems like the real reason.

Where as violence is ingrained in us as something we enjoy. We're the dominant species of this planet and our nations are on top in the west, that didn't happen cause we play nice. We as a species are hard wired to like violence. We needed it to get where we are and will continue to need it into the future.

We also need sex though so... I don't know. Truth be told, many people are more offended by violence than sex, even in the West, it's a matter of opinion really.

4952342

Foalcon is essentially a depiction of child molestation and to be honest, I don't know why it's allowed on the site.

4954121
If you want to draw parallels between fiction and reality with regards to foalcon, how about the fact that horses sexually mature aged 3?

4952398
You don't have the moral high ground here. Stop trying to derail the discussion and just make your own thread if you're that upset about the violence vs sex debate. Then you can talk about how sex with children is more acceptable than violence all you please.

4952253
Teen vs Mature is a tricky thing to nail perfectly, but thinking of it in terms of how movies distinguish between PG-13 and R helps. You can have virtually the same content in something that's PG-13 as in an R rated film, but the PG-13 version cuts away from the really nasty bits or makes those same descriptions brief. Overall tone is also a very important factor. You can get away with tremendous levels of violence if it has a Looney Tunes feel to it because it's so over-the-top that it's silly rather than shocking, whereas you couldn't get away with the same things if they're treated seriously.

4954183
4954495
Dude, enough.

4954183

Ponies are nearly full size at 1 year, which the CMC are clearly younger than even that, considering they're around half the size of their seniors. But oh, yes, accurate aging of ponies doesn't make foalcon sound worse or anything, not like you made the concept go from disturbing to horrifying considering the human aging cycle.

If you must ask, if someone wrote a story about the joys of murdering kids, I wouldn't be a fan of it unless maybe it were a comedy or I suppose a horror. I don't see sex as more or less offensive than violence, and to be honest, few people do in the end, it all depends on the circumstance.