To those that think fic authors shouldn't take commissions because anyone can write... · 5:32am Jan 8th, 2014
This is not a blog for authors or readers. No. This is a blog, for those that think fan fiction is a 'lesser art'. Those that think, like RainbowBob pointed out earlier, that it's okay to pay money for fan art, or fan music, but not for fan fiction. This blog is for those that think that just because they can produce words, they can write.
Roll your eyes if you want. This is something we've talked before among us readers and writers, but perhaps it's not something that you, fan musician, artist, sculptor or toy maker has heard. You might look at us, glance at the front page of fimfiction and notice hundreds of stories of any quality and think to yourself: I can do better than that! I am an (insert artistic type) and deserve more recognition than these talent-less people should ever get!
You might scoff at the silly stories or laugh at the people that wrote over a hundred thousand words. "They don't get to do as many commissions, or even get any acknowledgement from any professional," you might think to yourself.
Well, let me tell you something. I know how to draw. Basic stuff. I took graphic design for a year, I had to learn something. Does that make me an artist? Of course not. I didn't give it the love and passion needed to become an artist or graphic designer.
I learned to play 'Music of the Night' on the piano, by sheer repetition. Does that make me a musician? Not at all. I couldn't play anything else to save my life, much less get anything out of it other than perhaps more practice. But I don't sit down and practice, nor do I attempt to get better at it at all.
I once made a pretty sweet Latias out of sculpey (the wings were a nightmare!). I don't think I could sit down and do it again just like that, hell, I can't even roll a ball of clay to create the basis of a head! I have no idea, to this day, how I managed the Latias. Guess I'm a sculptor, right? Nope.
I think you can see where I'm going with this, dear reader. Now let me ask you.
When was the last time you wrote five thousand words that were not homework? When was the last time you started writing and finished a story? How many hours have you spent developing a plot and expressed it in words only, without having your drawings to compensate for an otherwise common story? Do you really think that comic of Celestia trolling Luna by telling her there's a fan waiting for her in the park would have been half as funny if it were not a comic?
Think about this, artist, creator, whatever you call yourself: You spend hours sometimes, just working on that little detail: the composition of the picture you're drawing, or making sure the stitches are tight and hidden, or that there's no fingerprints on the clay, or mixing and remixing... and when you finish your product, how long in average does it take for anyone to like it, or dislike it?
Half a minute? How many out of a hundred, well-deserved 'likes' actually see what you were going for? Or compliment you for your stitching technique? I'd wager not as many as the ones that simply say: "Cool!" Does that mean that your work is worthless?
Tell me, also, when was the last time you read a book?
Yesterday? Last week? Not since school? Doesn't matter. Do you remember, roughly, how long it took you to read said book? What would your fans find, if they spent the same amount of time you spent reading your book, looking at your picture, trying to take it all in to get what you're trying to do? Do you think, anyone can stare at a picture (coherently) for more than an hour while processing constantly what it shows to glean an understanding of the total? Let's say it's possible. How many would?
Now imagine that, whatever it is you do, is something that needs to be seen bit by bit, inch by inch first, to get a whole idea of what it is. Imagine it's something that cannot be taken at first glance, regardless of how cool it is. Each element has to be understood individually before anything else. Even if they have an idea of what it contains.
That is fan fiction. Fan fiction takes from a few minutes of actual investment to some hours to see and understand all the nuances of the whole story. Fan fiction, like any literary work, is analyzed from the beginning. There is no glimpse of the total that captures the complete contents of the story. It's not something that can be appreciated by a glance in a gallery.
You think anyone can write a story? Anyone can draw. Anyone can sew or build or sculpt. Doesn't mean it's going to be good, or that they should. Just like you spend hours upon hours training yourself in your craft, in contrast to the hobbyists that have some skill but don't do anything about it, serious fan fiction authors spend hours working and writing, editing and rewriting their work, in contrast to the masses that think it's easy.
Don't put down fan fiction just because you have thousands of followers in your etsy account. I'll bet you none of them has invested as much time in a single one of your pieces as any reader in a story here. Just like you have a gift and talent to do something exceptionally well, there are those here that can do it in our own media.
You think other artists are more deserving of commissions than anyone here? You're not seeing the whole picture. You're just stuck in the fallacy that others work harder or that anyone can write.
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Well said, D.
I used to be like those people you are upset at... until I started to try and write. I suck at it and I really respect it now. I see people throwing out 10k stories every week and I'm in shock.
I can draw to an extent, and play music. But you writers are beasts of your own and I really wish I had your talents. Keep up the good work!
And to those who still have my old belief. Write a proper story yourself like WandererD says and then say it is easy. Yeah, I didn't think you could.
*applause*
It's a shame to see artists being so damn elitist. One is not more worthy than the other. Both are difficult. To throw writing into a hidey-hole and treated like it's disposable... eugh. Nobody should be doing that to ANY artist.
Hell, writing so well you get paid for it is an entirely legitimate profession. Why this strange balking here, I'm not sure.
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I agree etsy is stupid.
no one comishes me for obvious reasons since most people like quality over quantity
but it would be cool to open them up, just to see who would be strange enough to want to get something from me
I once spent a full 24 hours catching up on a fanfic a friend suggested. I didn't like it.
I once spent a full 24 seconds looking at a picture of a boat on the wall. I was bored.
YEAH!
Thanks for the motivation, Deleteh. I really needed that, honestly. I know that's not quite what you meant to do, but that's what it caused. The message was well-put.
1695097 This can be arranged.
But for free
Harlan Ellison sums up the reason why writers don't get paid in this.
Haven't you written this exact same rant before? Not that I disagree.
Unlike music or art you can't just half ass writing, it can't be left in the background on repeat and paid only the barest of attention, nor can it be viewed in half a second. Writing requires your (more or less) full attention.
That being said...
Art inspires art. No form is worth less than others, no form is worth more than others. The only difference is personal preference.
1695110 YES
Also people's disconnect about quality really baffles me
"anyone can write" sure, anyone literate can put words on a page. Same as anyone with the ability to hold a pen can 'draw'. Does that mean I should charge $20 a pop for my stick figures, and expect people to pay it? Fuck no. Same as I wouldn't pay some bumbling fellow $20 for a poorly written fanfic with little to no plot and horrific characterization.
"but it's just a hobby! do it because you like it!" Why does that not apply to visual artists, exactly? I mean, it's drawings of ponies. FAN art.
Anyone who thinks writing is 'easy' and 'anyone can do it' is talking out their asses, seriously. That annoys me to no end.
Did something happen that set everypony off on this topic all of the sudden?
As someone who isn't a serious writer (not making fun; I only mean I do it as a hobby and have no illusions about becoming some big-time author) I've written things on request before but never for a commission... though there was that one time I wrote a story about beating up Dr. Phil for a co-worker because they paid for my lunch; does that count?
Sir, your have just helped me win an argument. My father believes writing is worthless and shames me for trying to be a writer. Welp, one look at this lil' rant of yours, he now can't say
Of course he'll still bitch about my dream, but one battle to win the war!
1695146 There's a fic that's been in the featured box lately. It's labelled Mature, so if you don't have that setting on, you likely haven't seen it. It deals with extremely abhorrent themes (sexually for the most part, I don't think I need to elaborate on what I mean here), and it was written as a commission.
Cue drama.
Thank you D, for this message.
I know I would never accept a commission for payment, as my writing stands right now, because there are many writers whom are much better than me, whom I would recommend for excellent work. Some of those, I would even consider commissioning to write something for me.
I see no difference between a well written story, a well drawn picture, or a well composed musical piece. To me, it is all art, and if someone wishes to pay for something specific to ensure the quality is there, I say go for it.
"That's not art. I could do that"
"But you didn't"
Wanderer D - Bringer of stupid oblivious people topics I had dismissed as preposterous but apparently actually happen. Seriously, anyone who thinks writing is easy and/or a universal skill assuming literacy is a moron. This coming from someone who can draw well enough to have been paid for it.
Does it make me blissfully ignorant if I'm oblivious to the ignorance of people, or merely ignorant?
1695177 I'd argue it makes you lucky.
1695160
Oh, DAT story... I didn't actually read any further than the description until now.
Mystery solved,
Anyone can do anything. But if you know the quality of something you want to do would be lacking just have someone else do it for you. Writing's an art just like drawing or sculpting so if someone wants to commission you for a story they should be able to just as much as if someone commissions someone else for a drawing.
I still think of it as a pinch silly to pay people to write stories for you, but certain areas of the net do a good job at showing why it's such a bad thing. (Some of the fantasies people pay others to write out are best left in the recesses of their highly disturbed minds) Honestly though, if they can make money, good for them. I'm lucky enough that, given enough time, I can write my own stories. Key word there being "lucky"
Mm, upon further thinking, I do actually have something to say.
Writing is one of the easiest art forms to get to a bare minimum level, quality wise, where your stuff isn't flat out embarrassing. If you get to that point and call it good enough, and never try to improve beyond that, I wouldn't consider you a writer. A lot of folks do exactly that (get okay then quit improving); I think that's why fanfic has a poor reputation.
DA needs to get their blown up ego taken down a few pegs.
The wonderful thing about commissions for any art form is that people generally won't pay some half-assed artist/writer/musician for some garbage product. I don't see DA whining about the millions of hideous Sonic fan artists being open to donations.
The bottom line is, free market. I'm not going to pay Joe Schmoe for some cut-rate clopfic. If I really want something of high quality and catered to my desires, I'll pay someone to do it instead of waiting around for it to be written on their terms.
If you think a commissioned story is garbage, then I guess it's a good thing you didn't pay for it, and it's an issue the commissioner should be concerned with, not you.
1695117 um no
writing is VERY easy to half-ass
i can show you many examples
I agree with everything in your blog.
I'm not brave enough to have a donation box like some people. And I am so damnably slow that I can't, in good concious, take a commission. Plus, there is that old standby issue where I 'just ain't good enough for all that'.
1695222 same can be said for drawing and anyone with some musical knowledge and training can half ass music... Wait that's the style these days, never mind.
1695233 >people actually believe this
music has been half-assed since the 60s, dude, and there are PLENTY of amazing musicians that have come out in the past few years.
1695160
As the writer of said tale, I completely expected it to be controversially received, but if it actually prompted this or blog posts like it, then I am genuinely amazed at how far it is spreading.
Wait, commissions for fics? We can do that? I mean, I personally am not a good enough writer to charge for stories, but it's nice to know the option exists.
Aw, come on. You can convince yourself your words are the truth, but certain others repeat that all it takes is a few sleepless nights and a heap of mountain dew.
Anyway, I kinda got the feeling that your blogpost was directed mostly to non-fimfiction committee. I know you have boatloads of followers, but I wonder what the chance is of one of other media artists reading it.
1695237 there have always been good musicians, what I'm referring to is what is commonly accepted as "good" music. I won't pretend that I don't like some of the half assed stuff either, because I do.
Wait, there are people out there that legitimately believe that literature is a lesser art? That is a deeply disturbing thing. Thank God I don't know anyone like that personally.
No shit.
if just anyone could write, then -I- would be writing. and this done not say that i have not been trying to do so. Celestia and Luna as my witnesses, i have been trying.. 9 months and counting i have been! just can't seen to get past this thing called passive tense....
then again, maybe some folks don't care one iota if they get a deceient pose. they just care of it writes and passes muster...
1695110
about fuck'n time somone quoted Harlan Ellison... y'all ben getting it wrong for so long..
TLDR. D covering his anger at people who think everything they right is the best just because they can type. :P
I kid .... maybe :P
Honestly i couldn't read this and not think your targeting every OW out there.
A-freakin'-men to this.
I wish more authors here would put up a donation box.
1695224 *hint, hint*
My rule of thumb since a few years has been this:
"Always assume anything other people do that you don't is at least a thousand times more difficult than your first impression suggested."
Another very useful one is this:
"In any argument, no matter about what, if you catch yourself starting to reply with: 'that's simple, just...', you're wrong. Stop immediately, backtrack and rethink things thoroughly."
Those two have helped me immensely in becoming less of an idiot. Not, mind you, that I have managed to stop being one, but at least I think I'm improving.
man Wanderer, are you really encountering all these people? because some messed up things you shouldn't even have to tell people...
Reminded me of this.
Never thought about taking comissions.
Firstly because i`m a hobbyist, I write because I like to write. Wether its a original or a fanfiction.
Secondly because I`m still at the lower regions of the authorswelll so to speak. I`m not at the utmost bottom, but i`m a far cry from being actually good.
But i`ll get to the top eventually,
And being on a site with so many writers with well developed talent is helping me speeding up my own development.
But with that out of the way.
I cannot see why writing would be seen as a lesser art, many writers put heart and soul in their work. Just like all the other artists.
But what I do feel strongly about is that you should be sure that you can actually deliver real qualitywork.
That said, the only commision i`d be willing to take at my current level is a fair trade.
A half-decent writer willing to trade a one-shot with a half-decent artist willing to trade a fic-cover
I took a career day thing a few months ago. I just learned that not everyone imagines different endings to things, or alternate actions when they read or watch a movie. Apparently, that's pretty much how you know someone's a writer. I literally thought that it was normal to think that way.
When it comes to commissions, I don't even see this as just art-related.
There are a large number of creative, and non-creative, activities that anyone can reasonably expect to be able to do, specially in this era of easy access to tutorials over the Internet. Repairing furniture, making small adjustments to clothes, installing tiles, and a number of other tasks can be done safely if the person doing them just follows good instructions.
Does this means professionals that work with that are out of work? No. It often makes sense to hire someone that is better than you, since an expert will typically be able to get a better result with less effort. Very often the time you would spend attempting the task is more expensive than what the professional will charge to do the task.
The same idea applies to creative tasks, such as creating images, music, animations, sculptures, and yeah, stories. Even taking talent out of the question, it makes sense to give such tasks to artists with more experience, artists that can get a better result in less time. It's a really nearsighted view to think artists, in any field, don't have worth, that what they produce can't have value.
You always have such informative blogs WD... Seriously, how can you be so eloquent?
And just to make a point in your favour,
How long did it take you to write this blog, after edits and rewrites?
Literally yesterday, but it was more like 500.
...Uh. Months ago, I think.
Too many.
Mmmm, no. A picture's worth a thousand words, after all, and that kind of image just needs to be seen.
...I got bored, so I wanted to answer the questions.
But well-worded blog, Wanderer. Completely agree. Just because someone can type or write or draw a significant amount of characters onto a page, doesn't mean that they can write like the greats. You see how many people look up to artists like Shakespeare, Homer, Ian Flemming, amazingly famous authors. What's so different between our craft and theirs, beyond us using a foundation? MLP is flexible enough to create entirely new worlds from a base concept, and it's fluid enough for it all to make sense. The base concepts are there for us to use and mold into our own ideal image of the world, and such a thing is replicated in art and music. When people write, when they draw, when they compose, they are creating another piece in an existing universe, from the blood-coated halls of the Rainbow Factory, to the smog-spewing factories and complexes of fics that embrace Equestria's Industrial Revolution. We all create things, so why should one be favored over the other by anything more than preference? It's creation, it's work, and it's still something that takes time and practice to master.
If you wanna say you can write like the greats, then I fully expect that person to pull a 60k word fic out of their asses about any random subject I suggest, and have it fully make sense and be entertaining to a wide audience. That in itself is a huge challenge.
Now, who wants to bet that if presented with this challenge, an artist would scan the Featured Box for what the community clearly likes, and then half-ass an attempt at writing exactly that? AKA, they write a clopfic. I'd bet $5 on it, if only because I still respect the creative minds of humanity.
1695958 I'd bet 30 minutes? At least, I don't see D sitting down in front of the computer and rewriting half a blog post to better convey the emotions of the characters ... actually, I'm wrong, he probably does do that for the writing-help ones he does.
1695323 I suppose that depends on whether you include all fanfiction as "literature." (which most people don't)
1695283 I might not spend hours editing and re-writing my works, but personally I do spend hours going over my story in my head, tweaking scenes and mentally speaking dialog before it ever goes down on the keyboard. I know there are some artists the same way, who don't have to erase (or ctrl-Z) while they're working.
1695224 I would quite cheerfully put up a donation box if I actually thought I would get anything from it.
1695203 As a general thing, assuming you know what kind of story you want to read and you can't write it yourself, why is it a bad thing to pay for it?
I agree with you. Writing takes as much work as anything else. I'm still learning the ropes myself. I'm pretty bad.