Writer's Workshop: a question of (the sense of) taste. · 3:24pm Feb 23rd, 2016
Imagine, for a moment, that you're Applejack, and here's the first half of your workday. You head out onto the Acres to check on your tenants. Along the way, you notice some fence slats are oddly damaged, and you have to hammer in some replacements. The fresh slats also need painting, but that's not much of a problem, at least not compared to spotting what damaged the old ones in the first place, coming back to see if it can break through this time. So now you've got to get the lasso out and hogtie a timber wolf, which isn't quite immediate and winds up triggering more painting. After that, it's back to routine, which involves getting out the watering hose because Rainbow's late again, doing a patrol of the North Fields looking for bugs -- you wind up having to remove several of them and take a few strange eggs back to the house so you can look up the species -- and cleaning up after Apple Bloom's most recent disaster, along with a little general tree maintenance through breaking off some dead branches, again by lasso, and carrying the dry wood out personally to cut down on the chance of fire. And now it's time to go home and sit down for lunch, which is --
-- not going to be eaten. At all.
Because here's a few of the things currently coating your tongue.
Hemp.
Wood of various sorts.
Bug carapace secretions and the protective gel which was coating those eggs.
Paint. (Given the angles you had to plant the brush at, it was inevitable.)
Rubber, or the Equestrian equivalent of same.
Whatever the Tartarus it was that Apple Bloom was messing around with out there.
And you think you're going to be capable of stomaching food?
(Don't think about the kind of comparable morning Ratchette's having. Just... don't.)
When your trio of species generally manipulates using their mouth (and this includes unicorns too young for an active field), the tongue is going to get involved along the way, and will sometimes be necessary for an extra bit of refinement. This means you're going to be tasting pretty much everything you use. Constantly. And those tastes are going to build, linger, combine in ways you really didn't want to experience...
Basically, if a pony can get through the average day without gagging, vomiting, or making out the latest version of their final Goodbye Cruel Foul-Tasting World note, then something's going on to make that possible. What?
Let's consider just a few of the potential implications here, and then the comments can take it from there.
* Is the pony sense of taste naturally dulled? Could they possess a sensory switch which allows them to only taste things which they're actually eating, choosing what they will and won't experience? (This is the easy way out.) What would life be like for the pony who lacked that ability and/or had a particularly acute sensorium?
* If the above isn't true, then what's a good palette cleanser worth? A decent percentage of pony income may go towards purchasing sorbets and mouthwashes. Is there a traditional herb or type of grass that does the job, and what happens if the stock gets wiped out? (Note that we can have a dulling herb here as well.) If anypony can perfect something which effectively wipes the tongue completely clean every time or invisibly protects it until you actually want to, you know, eat something, we're looking at Equestria's newest millionaire. Or, if it's Flim & Flam and the product only works a few times before the side effects start to come in, the latest disaster.
* Do ponies deliberately flavor objects to get through their day? "I need a new hammer. Do you have anything in cinnamon?" If so, how far does this go? Can Twilight steer herself around darkened Archives via flicks of her tongue against book spines? ("It's spearmint. We're in Archaeology.") Are there fashion trends in flavoring, or are things kept standardized to make detection in the dark that much easier? How about if a new manufacturing company decides to ignore flavor traditions? And what about the cash? If you flavor the money, it might be possible for a pony to instinctively count and make change by taste alone, and the most protected recipe in Equestria is the one which makes sure a bit tastes like a bit, because with ponies who no longer really look at the metal and just want to make sure the taste is right... How about changing flavors as a prank? Rainbow with a bottle of griffon-made hot sauce might be the most dangerous pony on the continent. Some ponies might become obsessed with a given flavor: think of a human chewing on a pencil, only now that pencil is all the neighborhood door levers.
* What's life really like for the cooks? A normal human chef has to taste their dishes along the way as quality control, but that isn't supposed to factor in the utensils and pots.
* Don't forget mouth protection. If you have flexible and safe materials, someone's probably going to have invented tongue covers and mouth guards, or still be trying to work out those last little flaws... (Hey, there's another market for the brothers to destroy!) At the very least, you're going to need something heatproof for kitchen use, and those working with chemicals are going to be begging for an industrial-strength edition. Here's hoping it's durable. And easy to put on. Easier to remove in a hurry. Personally sized and custom-fit. (Don't use somepony else's. Ever.) And dear sweet Celestia, watch that swallowing reflex. Which leads us to poison control...
Thoughts?
Also recall that one time Mr. Cake changed a diaper with his mouth.
Also recall that stuff like hay and grass are things ponies like to eat.
All things considered, if I had to choose which of the three pony races I'd rather be transformed into for some reason, I'd pick unicorn. The minor telekinesis is just too useful.
Another possibility is that ponies by necessity have gotten very, very good at making sure their tongue doesn't touch anything they don't want to taste when holding stuff in their mouths. Practice makes perfect. It may seem impossible to us humans, but how many of us spend our entire lives grabbing things with our teeth?
Well, we've seen at least some indication that ponies eat foods similar to what humans do. On the other hand, they do eat hay, sometimes. Though they may have a different conception of what qualifies as "hay" than we do, in much the same way that dog food is technically edible, but most people wouldn't want to eat it.
This suggests that they probably have a fairly good sense of taste, at least for some flavors - they eat eggs, drink milk, consume hot sauce, consume apple pies, enjoy cider, ect. suggesting that food is important to them as it is to us. So, probably don't have a permanently dulled sense of taste. On the other hand, we have noticed that Pinkie Pie will eat a lot of stuff, including the baked bads, rocks, and uh... lots of other things, and apparently enjoy them. Though she might just be crazy. Or, you know, after growing up on a rock farm where they eat literal stone soup, she'll eat anything.
But they certainly seem to enjoy things like sweets and ice cream.
The idea of mouthwash being a big thing amuses me. But also kind of fits with an idea - namely, that unicorns might see spitting in public as rude, while to earth ponies, who are stuck using their mouths for a lot of things that unicorns can use their magic for, are more likely to see it as socially acceptable. Spitting out a bad taste, using something to wash out your mouth - probably much more important for earth ponies than the other two kinds - while pegasi have to use their mouths as well, their ability to fly means that they can probably use their hooves for more than earth ponies can.
3772746
I'd rather not. It can be genuinely hard to watch. And he's a pony whose job (and mark) indicate a very good sense of taste.
I did consider the idea of a full rollback tongue before starting the post, but rejected it because we've seen ponies trying to talk with objects in their mouth. Frozen jaw and no tongue movement would make speech impossible.
As long as a cloud's around, they also have an easier time getting an emergency mouth rinse. Which brings up the question of public drinking fountains and private hospitality ones.
Spitting's an interesting take, and does make a little more sense for earth ponies. (I don't want pony saliva to be a natural cleanser: way too much complication in eating. Having an extra set of "rinse" glands is feasible, but starts to feel weird.)
There's probably social level differences around different kinds of mouthwash. I can see upper-class unicorns going "Ugh, mint-flavoured? How plebeian."
I wonder if mouthwash is a public utility in Equestria. We get running water and electricity, Equestrians get a crate of tax-funded government-issue mint-flavoured mouth wash delivered every month.
Honestly the taste problem seems less important to me than a disease one. Even if you ignore plagues as too dark for the setting the common flu gets a super boost from having so many carriers touching door handles with their mouths.
3772787
That is a hellishly legitimate point. Ponies who aren't naturally resistant to the more common saliva-spread illnesses have probably been wiped out of the gene pool, but anything new, virulent, and transmitted by spit has the chance to spread at Mach 7.
Why do you always publish these when I'm at work and can't give an immediate reply?
3772791
I have a copy of your work schedule available at all times.
And now that we have the self-publish system available, I'll be posting new material when you're in the bathroom.
I can only imagine the paper cuts involved if a book were shelved backwards.
I think the out here might be relying on how much smell matters when it comes to taste (for humans, at least?)--if all AJ can smell when doing these chores is apple, everything's going to taste vaguely like apple. Sour apple, maybe (or umami apple?), but apple.
Texture is still a problem, though--I'm pretty sure apple-flavored bug eggs and associated goop would still set off my gag reflex--and that's maybe getting back to the idea of mouth protectors. Or maybe just having a scoop to dump that sort of thing into a jar instead. We have at least seen something like an oven mitt in the show ("Call of the Cutie" is the example that comes to mind), although it didn't actually seem to save AB's tongue.
3772746 In addition, I'm betting they have very long, flexible lips. I mean, horses do.
I've used flavored pull-strings for an earth pony with a flying device for the various abilities it had, with Big Mac working his way down the flavors until he found the right one. And if a certain red unicorn (Sizzler) is correct, he can taste things with his magic field, so unicorns don't get off easy either. (although it does bring up the concept of a unicorn using a potholder to pick up things from the stove to keep from 'scorching' themselves.)
As I recall, rope tastes pretty awful, especially that synthetic crap which has some sort of scotch guard and kerosine flavor to it. Wood isn't actually that bitter it has a sweet taste to it, many coniferous woods are an excellent source of vitimin C. Unless you're talking something medicinal like eucalyptus or willow or unless the wood has been treated with pesticide, wood and bark are more tolerable, that is to say less bitter than root vegetables and many herbs. Naturally, there are exceptions. The wood could be treated with orange oil and boric acid which both work as natural pesticides. Boric Acid in particular, like silver colloid or otherwise, was used to extend the life of milk, but lead many to contract tuberculosis.
If you aren't allergic to jellybeans then you already know what bug secretions taste like, and the chitin isn't much different in texture and flavor than the salted shell of a popcorn kernel. Chocolate covered ants and Grasshoppers are a delicacy in many countries around the globe. When it comes to paints, if they use tempura it's made with eggs and berry juice or flowers, for a more pasty texture it is made with flour and water and could be colored with milk... a bit of sugar and butter and the paint could taste like frosting. As for rubber, what you're tasting in the hose is actually the chemically treated stuff for water proofing, things like aluminum and kerosine, once again. If you enjoy bubblegum or maple syrup you already have some Idea what the natural sap of the rubber tree tastes like.
I'm more than capable of stomaching natural ingredients, it's the synthetic fibers, chemicals, and otherwise I have trouble with. Also, not a chef. I was exposed to Montessori training as a child and as a visual media graduate I know a thing or two about natural paints and dyes. Although, to be fair, I have been cooking most of my meals since I was 14 and I am now in my 30's.
Tactile telekinetic field around the hooves. Or, barring that, magnetized horseshoes. The hooves may only have the keratin structure around the outside, leaving the frog of the hoof proportionately larger and allowing for one grasping mechanism or another. It may not be compatible with your Continuum, but it works for my uses.
vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/b/b8/Applejack...uhm..._what_S01E08.png/revision/latest?cb=20111012170758
In the case of tactile TK, I hypothesize that there is some sort of element system. Earth ponies can only use the tactile TK on things that would fall under earth, plant, metal, or rock. Pegasai can use it on things connected to air or water (see cloudwalking). Unicorns lack this because all their magic is routed through the horn and mark.
The inventor of silicone would be hailed as a national hero.
You. Are. A GENIUS!!! There's SO much potential in this! It's amazing! I really want to read a fic with this! Or write it myself! Or both!!!
3773020
In that picture, it's also legitimate to have her hoof pressing her end of the sticks against the stump. (I admit to being towards the "natural manipulation" end of any ponyfic scale.)
3773034
I don't mind if anyone wants to take any of the concepts I presented in my portion and run with them. If this inspires stories, good: that's part of the idea.
3773033
If they can avoid silicosis...
3772914
In this case, I knew I wasn't the first to the idea: I just wanted to talk about it a little.
Taste through a field... I can see it as a personal spell. Heat conduction is trickier. Until it got to the extreme temperature ranges, I'd have it as mostly psychosomatic, and many unicorns wouldn't even be able to detect temperature on something they were encasing at a distance. But get it close enough to the actual body... well, at least locally, unicorn fields don't readily stop heat/cold leaks: that's more of a pegasus category.
Very much a "by the writer," but what isn't?
3772988
The industries would likely skew towards natural materials as much as possible, for just those reasons. There are some fabulously foul-tasting woods out there, though.
3773090
You have to get pretty far back along the synthesis chain to see silica crystals. The silicon's very tightly bound up in a bunch of really long chains in silicone rubber, which is why the stuff is so non-reactive. Silicone rubber is what dentists use to make molds of a patient's teeth, and can also be used as a comfort coating on braces. So as far as I know, it should be safe for extended use in the mouth.
Had to post this just before I had an exam, didn't you? Okay, let's get thinking...
My usual answer to this conundrum is tactile telekinesis, as Zocarik mentioned. (Heck, they even used the picture of Applejack from "Look Before You Sleep" that I was going to.) However, ponies use their mouths enough in the show that that solution is neither complete nor satisfactory.
Another potential solution is hoof-mounted tools (or mouth-mounted ones like Rachette's clockwork facehugger,) but the show uses those even less. I think Applejack's hammered a nail in with her hoof once or twice, and that's it. Most pony tools seem developed for a species with thumbs, presumably so the audience can recognize them and because some devices just don't work when attached to someone's leg, like screwdrivers.
There's no feasible way to get around it; ponies use their mouths as primary manipulators. So, how to address the obvious issues? Well, Bumblebee Tuner noted that it isn't quite as bad as it sounds. Following that chain of logic shows that ponies have a definite interest in manufacturing palatable goods... though that leads to some fridge horror when it comes to inquisitive foals looking under the sink.
Tasty toxins aside, this may come as a sudden realization to us, but for ponies, it's a problem they've confronted since they started using tools.
Heck, given how their mouths are somehow adapted for both speech and tool use, sometimes at the same time, ponies probably have incredible oral dexterity. Even if their tongues can't retract or flip out of the way somehow, most ponies probably figure out the best way to do their jobs with minimal aftertaste very quickly. For times when that's unavoidable regardless of technique, scoops or tongs would probably come into play. Alternately, the the same industry that mass-produces balloons also makes flavored tongue gloves.
So, yeah, there are a lot of ways of dealing with this issue. Still very interesting to think about.
3773105
I was thinking of the mining & manufacturing process. The base material isn't friendly.
3773108
That reminds me: I'm going to need a fresh copy of your class schedule.
Here's a cheap & dirty justification: minotaurs dominate the bulk manufacture industries and due to the durability of the product, it's often easier (well, less expensive) to get one of their items and figure out how to make it for work for a quadruped than to customize something for a pony. The wealthier strata of pony society get the best pieces - and are the least likely to personally use them.
I do want to do more with hoof mounts. And I had mouth heat shields in Chapter One Ever, so that part has been humming along in the background for a while. I was just thinking about actual flavors. Imagine that pretty much everything you held over the course of a single day had to go in your mouth for a moment, and...
...please don't throw up.
3773129
Yeah, mining silica would not be a safe job for unaided earth ponies, no.
3773090 "I'd have it as mostly psychosomatic...."
You know, your Twilight Sparkle would be prone to this.
Rarity: Pardon me, Twilight, but why do you have a bandage around your horn? Did you injure yourself?
Twilight: I was blowing some glassware for an experiment and I grabbed onto it before it had cooled down.
Rarity: (pause) I see. Right. (pause) Would you like me to take a look at it for you?
Twilight: No, it still hurts too much, but I put some burn cream on it and it should be better by next week.
Rarity: (long pause) I'll be right back, Twilight. I need to talk to Spike.
I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, except a memory of seeing a drawing by one of the comics artists of Fluttershy holding a litter scoop in her mouth and saying something like "this is my least favorite part of my job".
I wonder how much of Equestrian industry is hiding something like this? And with that horribly dark thought aside...
...I really don't know where I was going to go next.
I do have the (some say disgusting) habit of chewing pens. (I was once chided on the practice by a smoker. Chewing a pen is disgusting, but sucking the smoke of burning tobacco isn't?) I sometimes use my mouth to hold some small object when I need my hands for something else. The worst tasting things are usually metal objects. I don't know about the rest of the world, but Australian coins taste terrible. I would expect that any metal object in Equestria is either gold, silver, or stainless steel. There's a reason we use those metals for eating utensils, they have no real flavour.
Stainless steel soap claims to reduce odour, I wonder if it also numbs taste...
3773108
I wonder if that explains the CMC's single mindedness about the search for their marks? Too much time mouth-ipulating cleaning products?
On the flip side...
AB: #@%&*!
GS: Apple Bloom! Git over here so I can wash your mouth out with soap!
AB: Oh, Thanks Granny!
GS: Eh, wut?
AB: I was helping Applejack stack the fertiliser delivery in the barn...
"Dwenny-eh. Dwenny-uhn... Duh'e."
*plp-clinkph-splup*
"Have a nice day!"
But seriously, it's an interesting thing I'd never considered before.
Closest I can think of is how people wear gloves for the dirty, disgusting and painful or dangerous things like dealing with thorns and sharp branches in the garden, or handling toxic substances.
Could an Equestria exist where there's a reasonably good chance that any pony you meet will be wearing some sort of nightmarish muzzle-glove, (Including variants for full head coverage with the eye-holes of course) because they've just taken a cake out of the oven?
This kind of makes sense. You've got some people who, when gardening prefer to have their hands in the dirt and/or don't bother with gloves for the small stuff so some ponies might not bother with the face-glove when doing small things where it'd take just as much time to put the muzzle-glove on as it would to just do it.
And then at the other end of the scale there'd be the germaphobic pony or the one with sensitive lips who wears a full head-mask almost all day.
And considering the parallel with gas masks... would there also be some ponies who've fetishised them?
Considering the flavouring of common utensils and tools... Sure. It wouldn't be that much more troublesome than trying to manufacture hammers without splinters.
3772988
...What are you?
3772787
Is it possible that ponies have stronger immune systems than us? The only times I can remember disease being brought up, there was a magical component involved. I'm not sure if anything from the latest two seasons are even cannon here.
Eh, guys. Has anybody considered how dogs will happily drink dirty, muddy water, carry old and half-moldy balls in their mouths, not to mention rotten, wet sticks (especially during the autumn), and regularly sniff excrement and other dogs' asses?
And while some dogs love to eat any random shit they find - often literally - many (and I speak from personal experience - with a sample size of two, who have indeed been known to eat poop at times) are extremely picky. Certainly almost no dog will confuse raw meat with boiled potatoes. So their sense of taste is certainly not dulled (never mind the fact that smell plays a huge part in determining the flavour of food, and dogs certainly have an extremely sensitive sense of small).
If dogs can live like that, why not ponies?
3773531
A seven-part series on each of the Mane Cast getting sick has something going for it...
(Short summary: Twilight goes through Rhynorn's Flu as discussed in a previous blog post, Fluttershy's horde tries their best to take care of her while she's ill and bluebirds are not designed to deliver home care, Applejack has no idea what to do with her recovery time and drives herself nuts trying to find any kind of activity, Rainbow refuses to cave in to a mere wimpy illness and tries to execute her normal routine while lying about being fine and turning into a flying plague vector, Spike gets a perfectly normal cold and everypony freaks out because they have no idea what any dragon illness could do, Pinkie invents the Get Well Soon party and winds up producing a second version for the five she infected at the first get-together, and Rarity renders a mild flu into a full-scale The Lady On Her Deathbed production which makes everypony wish it was fatal.)
So I just had a comment I made on a story deleted by the author. I'm pretty sure it's the first time that's happened.
Achievement Unlocked!
You are forgetting that manure is used as fertilizer. Indeed, one of the older meanings of the word "manure" is fertilizer. Others have pointed out that dogs voluntarily eat cat feces (had a dog & a kitty litter box I never had to clean) also carrion & vomit. Ponies could be the same. I'd point out that humans often taste food w the same utensils they stir it with (somebody once scolded Felix about it in an old Odd Couple episode)
I'd go w chewing gum -the stronger the flavor the better. (One of my room mates had a home made poster "Saliva. Nature's Toothbrush. Keep It Out Of Your Ears!" (One of many reasons I hope to never have another room mate))
3773518
Currently? I'm the devil's sooty brother, and king besides. But, eventually even I will surpass Gunga Din.
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3772802
Alright, here's my thoughts. Kind of working off memory, here, so I might get some facts a little dented, but hey, we're talking about magical horses.
First, IIRC there's a strong component of scent which also goes into taste. Like, if you smell really strong citrus and then take a bite of cut apple, you'll think it's an orange (assuming you're blindfolded, anyway).
Second, horses can close their nostrils. They do that sometimes when they want to hold a scent in (the Flehmen response?), but why couldn't they do it when they want to keep one out?
Third, IRL horses do a lot of feeling/manipulation with their lips anyways. So it's not that much of a stretch for them to have evolved to the point where that's normal. Also, based on some research, even holding things in your teeth for a little while doesn't cause it to be saliva-covered, nor are you going to taste it all that much. I've tried it with a book for experimentation, and I just re-tried with my cell phone for thirty seconds.
Fourth, how sensitive are horse tongues to different tastes? I'd have to do some digging, but they may not even be able to taste some things we'd think are nasty. I'm pretty sure cats can't taste sweet, which is why they almost never get poisoned by chocolate--they don't have any attraction to the stuff.
Another point, smells and tastes are to an extent subjective. I like the smell of cowshit; my mom likes the taste of sulphury, hard water (this is what growing up in the country does to you). Also, I love raw chives, which is not normal as far as I know. But when I was a kid, I was a bit of a grazer (my mom had the number for poison control on the wall, 'cause I'd eat any plant I found in the backyard [which is probably why she stopped growing rhubarb (the leaves are tasty)]).
I'm not saying that the ponies would be eager to grab a loaded diaper in their mouths, mind; I try to avoid picking them up as well. Even when I'm wearing latex gloves. But--here's an example: You're probably psychologically uncomfortable with the idea of going out shopping wearing only your birthday suit; presumably, most ponies feel uncomfortable in any clothes.
You've certainly got some valid points, though. There are undoubtedly things which they have invented to prevent mouth-to-whatever contact, and an invention which has a terrible mouth-feel is unlikely to be a successful invention, no matter how useful it is.
There are probably rules of etiquette around having things in your mouth, or touching certain things with a bare mouth. I believe we've seen them use a ladle to serve soup in individual bowls, for example, rather than all leaning in to the communal soup pot. There are undoubtedly societal rules about things which should only be touched by hooves or magical field, and there are probably a bunch of things which they don't particularly like touching with their lips but they do anyways because they have to.
I think that overall, the ponies are used to picking things up with their mouths.
Magic. For unicorns it's obvious enough. (Though I get this feeling even unicorns use their mouths sometimes) For pegasi a very subtle and very automatic protective air layer. It goes away they second they close their mouth, but works otherwise, not just protecting unwanted tastes, but from damage. This means pagasi moms tell their foals to slow down and chew your food, it will taste better. Earth ponies have to be more delibrate, but same idea, earth magic makes their lips and mouth incredibly tough so nothing can damage it, and the protection for the tongue makes the taste buds incapable of interacting with anything properly. Still have issues about cleaning out some foul things before you eat or you get a big surprise, but enough spit can do this if neeed be, you just have to make sure there is really nothing left in there. Pegasi of course have easier access to water, which is a better and safer alternative. Gargle and spit or you might have a bad time.
I like the idea that seeing as it's entirely possible for them to eat certain kinds of rocks, they have far stronger stomach acids. In turn, their saliva is proportionally stronger, to the extent that it would rate as a mild acid by human standards. After all the other things they are seen destroying with their teeth in timeframes that would wreck even a hyena's mouth(known to gnaw through concrete), it stands to reason that there's a reason the can chew(and from that swallow and digest) such things without breaking their face.
Their saliva is antiseptic by dent of being acid.
It's silly, yes, but not entirely implausible.
3773020
That's GENIUS! It answers so many questions AND is compatible to the idea of various uses of magic! GENIUS!
Instead of tactile telekinesis, I assumed that pony hooves used the van der Waals force like geckos, but around the edge rather than on the bottom.
3773936
Oh but I will.
3775644
But I very clearly said 'don't.'
3773991
That would be a great twist in a human/pony romance fic.
3775728 What if Sunset and Princess Twilight maintained the heightened acidity of their digestive fluids even while in human form? That could make more awkwardness and provide something for SciTwi to study.
3776316
lol poor Flash.
3775725
Alright, seriously though, it's been two days. Perhaps you might consider finishing your thought?
3777370
I can't remember what it was.
Perhaps ponies are a bit like rabbits: they love sweet things most, followed by vegetables, grass and hay, with the odd savoury (one of mine ate lasagne once) but are also completely unfazed by things such as eating their own poop.