Dear Critic: Is This You? · 7:22am Jun 12th, 2015
Jane Austen Receives Feedback From Tim, A Guy In Her MFA Writing Workshop.
Oh, so many reasons to love this, which is why I am taking a few minutes off from grading exams. Go ahead and read it first. Discussion under the break.
There is a lot of fighting in the comments, as per usual, but the obvious point here is that Tim isn't interested in finding out what kind of story this is and giving feedback on that. Instead, he wants to remake the story from the ground up, as though he were God and it were his image. From genre to cast to major theme, he is not simpatico with this story at all, and yet, he feels he can improve it.
Well, that, and he thinks maybe Jane might not be familiar with Chaucer or Shakespeare. Extra points for telling her to tell MORE, like Hamlet.
The problem with Pride and Prejudice, which is pretty good for chick lit, as Tim acknowledges, is that there aren't enough male characters, and there's not enough about war. He's accidentally hit on something, incidentally. As someone in the comments points out, if there were a Bennett brother, there would be no plot, because there wouldn't be a problem with the entailed estate that the female characters will lose when Mr. Bennett eventually dies. It wouldn't be so critically important to get the girls well married off to men who don't need or expect any money from them, because they already have plenty of their own. And the Austen novels do focus on the worries and doings of some female characters whose feelings and concerns aren't considered very important in the grand scheme of things. Also, most soldiers in Austen novels are jerks, with the exception of Colonel Brandon. Jane saves her love for the Navy. The Master and Commander books by Patrick O'Brian are pretty much what the Austen characters' brothers and friends (and former fiances) are doing offstage. Anyway, Wickham doesn't have any war experience; just a position in the army that was bought for him.
In other words, the problem is that it's a Jane Austen novel.
"Why? Why? Why?"
Oh, dear, I suspect I see myself in that. It's so easy to resort to "why? why? why should I care?"
It can get old for everybody.
Mind you, the truth is that a fanfic only has about a nanosecond to grab the reader, so it's a valid point, but sometimes it's easy for a critic to jump to "why? Explain why!" when the author really IS going to explain why, and then rushes to review the fic without realizing that this issue has been covered. If the author does a crappy job explaining why, or it's just ridiculous or inadequate, that's different.
Tim certainly is.
I think "missing the point" applies both to criticizing fanfic and to criticisms of the show itself. I'm under the impression that a number of fans don't really like the show as it is. Oh, they do, but they want to make it more comfortable, with a lot fewer tea parties and a lot more beer. It's a show filled with girly little ponies, and they love 'em, only maybe there could be more stallion character. And weapons, and spaceships. Also, large breasts.
But that's not the show. It's always going to have female characters front and center, they're almost always going to default to trying to make friends and solve problems WITH cupcakes and WITHOUT violence, and ponies will continue to fail to have breasts. (Not sure about the spaceships, though. Not as long as M.A. Larson is writing for the show.) Being disappointed because there's not more retribution and weaponry is, well, missing the point.
The same thing probably applies to blanket hating on fics with OCs in them, or a ship the critic can't stand, or a genre they can't abide. It really takes a strong stomach to criticize a fic in a genre you love, with a ship you adore, and that you still think is awful.
Anyway, try not to miss the point, guys. Jane's got this covered, as usual:
"By the bye, Charles, are you really serious in meditating a dance at Netherfield? -- I would advise you, before you determine on it, to consult the wishes of the present party; I am much mistaken if there are not some among us to whom a ball would be rather a punishment than a pleasure.''
"If you mean Darcy,'' cried her brother, "he may go to bed, if he chuses, before it begins -- but as for the ball, it is quite a settled thing; and as soon as Nicholls has made white soup enough I shall send round my cards.''
"I should like balls infinitely better,'' she replied, "if they were carried on in a different manner; but there is something insufferably tedious in the usual process of such a meeting. It would surely be much more rational if conversation instead of dancing made the order of the day.''
"Much more rational, my dear Caroline, I dare say, but it would not be near so much like a ball.''
Pride and Prejudice, chapter 11.
Good and amusing article, though the point gets a little muted for me. You see, one quick confession here. I'm a voracious reader. I used to read all the time. I'd plow though all sorts of novels, and read anything I could get my hands on. It may be skewed towards fantasy and science fiction, but other things get in there. I've read several of Shakespeare's plays, Oliver Twist, every L Frank Baum Oz book, and all sorts of things.
But I never finished Pride and Prejudice. I think it's actually the only book I've never finished reading once I started, and I tried twice, abandoning it halfway both times. I did read "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies" all the way through, though.
I've even read things that were quite obviously influenced by Pride and Prejudice and enjoyed them. I actually like the plot, it's simply something I like to read as a subplot while something else is going on.
Ah well, I get the point, anyways.
The closest I've come to that with other books, incidentally, was trying to will myself to start Tom Clancy novels, which I have enormous difficulty getting past the first few pages of, a book called "The Reality Dysfunction", and this one urban fantasy novel. I don't recall the name, but I vividly recall hurling it across the room after finishing it. Great worldbuilding, fine characters, and a next to nonexistent plot...
--arcum42
"It isn't like the things I liked before, therefore it's wrong."
What a horrible mentality, to have tastes so narrow that they can't accommodate anything novel or innovative. It's like subsisting entirely on ham sandwiches, which is an especially bad position to be in when writing about ponies.
There still might be a plot, but it wouldn't be as strongly-driven. Absent the extreme importance of at least one and preferably two or more of the Bennett Sisters marrying someone wealthy, the whole story would be emotionally far more calm and leisurely, without as much resentment against Mr. Darcy on Lizzie's part and not as much suspicion of Lizzie on Mr. Darcy's part. Darcy probably wouldn't have bothered to warn Mr. Bingley against Jane Bennett.
The entailment was a really good plot concept, because it raises the stakes for Lizzie and Jane, and really for all the Bennett sisters (the faults of the younger girls become more frightening when one realizes that they will have to make marriages without having much in the way of inheritances).
From a social-historical point of view, this emphasizes the way in which England c. 1800 was poor. It was very easy to sink from the upper-middle into the lower or at least lower-middle classes; even educated, intelligent girls could do so in one generation simply by not marrying well.
Wealth creation was on a smaller scale, much slower and more unreliable than today. Acceptable careers for upper middle-class women were limited. The engines of capitalism were (literally) just starting to operate (this was the Early Industrial Revolution). Compared to the people of two centuries ago, those of a century ago were extremely rich on average.
The specific situation shown is biologically-plausible. Mr. Bennett was obviously only shooting X-sperms.
I never thought about this, but that's a great example of an interservice rivalry extending to relatives of the serving officers! There's some truth to it, too -- the Royal Navy of the era was professional in ways that the British Army wasn't, in part because of the point you mention, the rank purchase system. Both Navy and Army would seem barbaric in many ways by our standards, but the Army was worse.
Here's a sobering thought: both the Navy and Army were the finest in the world at that time. Only the American Navy was really any better, and only because it was a smaller and hence more elite establishment -- the British Royal Navy was fighting the French Revolutionary and Imperial Wars at the time, and couldn't afford to be too picky about who they took as officers (let alone men -- this was the era of the press-gangs!).
(*Thinking about my own writing, and yours*)
I've written an epic tea party, complete with reminiscing about pastries from now-vanished civilizations. I don't like beer, but I do like wine and mead, and I may wind up writing that into a scene someday. You do a lot of party stories in general, because of the couple on whom you like to focus.
I definitely write important stallion characters, simply because I like to do love stories. I've noticed that almost all the love stories I've done so far are heterosexual or female-homosexual, though technically speaking Carry and Cowl are in a bisexual polyamorous love affair with each other and Compound (but none of them think of it exactly this way, because they're Changelings). Glittershell, who is an adopted character, is transgendered -- born male with a female mind, but in terms of her mental sex is heterosexual (as my Sweetie Belle will discover to her sorrow).
You, of course, have in your Cheese Sandwich a very important male character with a distinct and well-conceived personality. You've done other male characters well too, notably Trenderhoof and Flash (even though that story was pure comedy and was essentially satirical, you handled Flash well).
I like science fiction and war dramas, so my main story arc, the Shadow Wars, is about a war between two universes. I like action scenes, and write them into a lot of my work. The two stories directly from the series I adapted into novellas, Nightmares Are Tragic and Dragonshyness, both incorporate a lot of action. Royal Business, which I'm adapting as a side story to an episode, is comedic drama.
I don't think that you like to do action, let alone war, at all. To each her tastes; I really like the comedy-dramas that you like, and as for Jane Austen I don't think Pride and Prejudice would have been improved by an invasion of Napoleon's steam-powered frigate landwalkers, adapted from Robert Fulton's designs. Though Mr. Wickham would have had his redeeming moment when he climbed into the experimental suit of nuclear-powered armor and fought them off with the depleted-uranium gatling gun ...
As for spaceships, they're rather important to the ultimate destiny of Ponykind in my world, so ... yeah.
Breasts ... well, the female Ponies have single udders with two teats each, placed exactly where you'd expect from seeing horses. Does that count? My male Ponies aren't all that fascinated by them, because they're not as important an erogenous zone to Ponies as the equivalent area is to humans. This even comes up peripherally in An Epistolary Legal Consultation Between Princesses.
Implicitly, you may have noticed the lack of interest on the part of Igneous Rock regarding Cloudy Quartz's udder in Pinkie Sense and Sensibility, in a situation where a human male would have definitely been noticing a human female's breasts? And the fact that he was more interested in her neck and shoulders? Deliberate xenofictional analysis, on my part. Yes, I think about this stuff, when I write a Pony love scene.
Briefly read the original post -- it was hilarious.
Yeah, why aren't there more "people of color" in a novel set among upper-middle-class women in rural England c. 1800? (I'm quite aware that there were more black people in England at the time than many moderns realize, it's the specific social setting that makes it improbable).
*raises hand*
I... I would be down for more spaceships,
Seriously though, do people actually complain that the show doesn't have enough stallions/guns/boobs/whatever? What kinda ride did these people think they were in for when they started watching?
3141610
YES. Happens on this site EVERY FLIPPIN' DAY. >_<
I strongly prefer the show over the fandom stuff.
Any who, I appreciate your point regarding the ease of criticising something outside your comfort zone compared to something g you generally love. For example, I could go on all day about how I despise a certain fic regarding Rarijack, but god forbid I bring reproach upon a Sparity story.
Interesting thoughts.
3141719
I must be hanging out in the wrong groups or smth,
... or maybe I'm hanging out in the right groups,
I was going to have a lengthy bit of my characteristic rambling about the importance of criticism and feedback and good and bad feedback and bla-dee-bla-dee-bla, but then I realized that there was more than enough of that in the comments of the original article, no need to clutter this one up with it as well.
What I will say is this: if you truly want the show with more x and less y and a bigger emphasis on z... then write that story! That's at least partially what fanfics are for.
You think the show would be better if there were more action? Write an action story!
Think it's obvious that Rarity and Generic Background Unicorn #37 are into each other? Write a shipping story about them!
Think that what the show desperately needs are tap-dancing ocelots singing "If I Were a Rich Man" on top of a giant ice sculpture of Mrs Cake's front-left femur?
...Maybe think about getting some professional help, but in the meantime, write it!
Is it going to be good? Maybe not, but it's still your story to tell.
To be honest, I kind of feel that way about most fan arguments as well. There are plenty of things in-show that are ambiguous. To take an example from this very blog: about how Ponies
That may be the case. But one could make the argument that the Elements and Rainbow Power and all that are kind of violent, essentially being the ultimate in magical weaponry. And one make arguments against that argument. And arguments against that argument and so on and so forth.
[Edit: I am aware that's probably not what you mean by violence, just thought it could illustrate an example of this sort of issue. Sorry if I messed up somehow.]
But why go on and on, arguing round in ever decreasing circles about things that, realistically, have no right answer (or, indeed, writing furious rants in your blog about how what you think is obviously right and indisputable and anyone who disagrees is stupid and dumb and shut up! notnaminganynames) when you could spend that energy writing about this aspect you're so passionate about?
Not saying I'm not guilty of this myself, sometimes, but just... if you want it, write it.
(Huh, guess I did do some rambling after all).
Alas, you can't please everyone. There will always be that one doofus who thinks there needs to be changes more suited to their tastes, and has the most ridiculous complaints about a work. I wonder what my own doofus would sound like when reading one of my fics and missing the point of it...
I ain't a fan of tea parties, but I'm much less a fan of beer. Seriously, that junk is overrated and should be kept out of ponies. At least tea parties fit with the nature of the show.
Yeah, the focus should be kept on the girls, since they've been driving the stories with their established personalities and goals, and it's nice to see a girly show that doesn't absolutely disgust me with shallowness. Proof being my presence on this site.
Still, I like a bunch of the stallion characters we got and left a good impression on us. Especially Cheese Sandwich. Amazing pony, would love to see again (but is also kind of terrified of the show ruining his character by making him obnoxious). Best stallion.
The only weapons that should be allowed are party weapons, like Pinkie's cannon and Cheese's tank. Seriously, I once gave an OC of mine a party rifle and a party machine gun. And I'm planning on giving another one a party bazooka. It was weird.
Spaceships are too weird for ponies. And large breasts... ACK, NO! Do they realize where horse teats are placed?! NO NO NO NO NO!
*sigh* If only there weren't a plethora of edgy OCs with bad color schemes and overly tragic backstories that would make comic book superheroes throw up. Never mind that there are good OCs out there (I've read some fics that had me really like the OCs, like this one). And I've worked hard to develop my own...
I personally avoid stories of ponies, ships, and genres I hate, so I see no point in criticizing them.
And I won't deny that it takes guts to criticize a story about a subject you like--I'm personally kind of a wimp when it comes to being a critic. 
My sister's better at it. 
Anyway, whenever I see a post of something that says (insert work here) doesn't have enough (insert thing here), I just roll my eyes.
3141719
New concept: a badass edgy loner stallion... who has a gun that fires boobs.
Aww, yeah... top of the Featured List, here I come.
3142366
From space.
From space.
3142473
I'm feelin' a collab coming on, what about you?
3142512
I think it just happened.
Ugh yes. I recently got comments like this on one of my fics.
"I don't like that you interpreted the characters this way! Therefore your fic is bad!"
Dude, go outside. There's a big wide world out there and you don't need to lose your shit over the fact that I'm writing the story and you aren't.
P.S. It was a ship they didn't like. An unrequited ship. GO OUTSIDE.
3141719
I'll also never understand the hatred some of the fans on this site seem to have for...well...women. It's a show with strong female characters that was actually reimagined by a feminist, but the way some people carry on you'd think it was the Manliest Show Ever.
Newsflash: There's nothing wrong with guys liking MLP. That's exactly why you don't have to thump your chest and proclaim that it's manly to make yourself feel better.
Cognitive dissonance, I suppose.
3141610
My Little Pony: Stallions with Guns Hanging Out With Mares With Boobs Is Magic, of course!
3141929
Well, for starters, Cheese and Tomato Sandwich need to get electric rotary machine guns. Lots and lots of electric rotary machine guns!
I actually have a scene in one story where Luna shows up with one of those. Early product of her secret defense lab. Sadly, it's going to get Nerfed. I say this in full confidence that I'm revealing nothing!
Mmm, I'm not sure I'm so into the tea party culture, but tea and cakes or biscuits etc. go really well together. Though Celestia I think is more a coffee fan. I like coffee myself. Preferably with cream, sugar, chocolate and cinnamon.
My Luna likes mead. This is not accidental, I like mead. It's one of the most delicious fermented beverages around. Plus, my Luna's into the whole Norse thing.
Beer just tastes like sour bread to me. Though I guess some people would respond to my liking for wine by accusing me of sour grapes.
I also like Big Mac and Shining Armor, and wish both of them got more positive exposure. Both are of course overshadowed by their younger sisters, and in Shining's case, also by his wife. In another kind of show -- and not a bad kind of show either -- they might be buddy heroes.
I think the Ponies will have spaceships eventually. In the main worldline, probably within a century or two. I sped it up for the Shadow Wars Storyverse.
3142366
"Who are you, Mister?"
"I'm the Boobinator!"
3143069
All the female characters on the show have hair on their chests, though. Well, except for Chrysalis, and I'm not sure exactly what that "chitkeratin" (my name for what a mammal would grow if it was developing a pseudo-arthopod exoskeleton) feels like. It may be hairy, though I think it's mostly smooth.
3143192 But Tomato's not a party pony--what the heck would he do with that?
Eh... I don't drink alcohol, coffee, or tea, period. I say I'm less a fan of beer because getting drunk doesn't sound very appealing to me. My only kind of beer is root beer, and you could hardly call that a beer.
I am an unashamed "milkaholic" though. 
Yeah, Shiny and Mac, those awesome big brothers. I've got a big brother of my own, and he's awesome and funny (I kind of based Cheese's silly big brother mannerisms on him). Though, I will admit, we didn't get along the best as teenagers (let's just say I based Kazam's big brother bully tendencies on him as well).
3143372 Boy, I wish I could still drink milk! Enjoy it while you can. Go nuts in your wild youth, because ice cream, butter, and milk are mostly off limits for me.
3143372
I don't like getting drunk -- I've only ever been drunk three times in my life. I'm a silly drunk -- I get giggly, I get sleepy and I go to sleep. One wakes up with a headache, though. I don't drink much, and when I do it's usually just to experience a drink with a little kick to it.
Why don't you like coffee or tea? The jitters? Or other reasons? Coffee has a lot of caffeine, tea not so much. I generally don't drink more than 2-4 cups of coffee in a sitting, even if given unlimited refills -- I'll have coffee with breakfast type food. I love tea with Indian or Chinese food, though. I'll have either with cake.
I have a sister-in-law who is terribly addicted to sodas. Given the option she will literally drink enough to make herself sick. It's astonishing -- until I met her, I never realized anyone could be that addicted to soda. In my younger days, when I lived on soda and pizza pies, I could polish off 2-4 liters a day. She wants to drink more than that.
Among the ways that Big Mac and Shining Armor are similar is that they are both in their own ways more realistic / pessimistic than their younger sisters. They're different in their background and profession, though, Big Mac being pure farmboy and Shining Armor aristocratic military. I've always thought they'd like one another when they got to know each other, for similar reasons to why Applejack and Twilight Sparkle are such good friends.
3143393
Same here ... lactose-intolerant. I can just tolerate a little milk on cereal, and I can eat some ice cream or take it as cheese, but if I drink milk straight it is not pleasant.
And I used to love milk, too -- all through my teens, the lactose intolerance hit me in my twenties.
3143517 Religious reasons. I'm a Mormon.
Even if I wasn't, I hate the smell of coffee (and if I hate the smell of something, I'd probably hate the taste), and I don't think I'd be able to handle the caffeine. And tea... I don't know. I know I smelled a bag once and didn't like the smell.
Eh, I'd prefer chocolate milk any day.
That behavior of your sister-in-law worries me. I like soda, but I can only handle about two 24 oz. bottles at most.
My bro was once addicted to Mountain Dew--he's long since quit in order to be healthier, and now he drinks protein shakes...
And speaking of big bros--now I kind of want to see Big Mac and Shining Armor in a "Big Brother Club" or something.
3143660 Yep! No need to have a reason, although I know that's yours. You're not going to get "how can you not like [fill in the blank]?" from me.
I don't eat cheesecake, and I hear this all the time--"how can you not like cheesecake?" And I explain that I already like lots of different kinds of fattening foods, so there's no sense in forcing myself to like another fattening food I don't like.
3143517 You probably both know that G1 had Big Brother Ponies. In fact, Jordan, I remember that's part of your universe backstory. So it would be highly fitting to have a Big Brother story, and that's an episode I think maybe the show might do!
3143660
Ah, I thought that might be it. I wasn't sure how complete was that stricture. I'm guessing you're allowed to drink decaf sodas, such as 7-Up or some versions of caffeinated sodas with the caffeine removed and replaced by other things for the slightly-bitter taste?
It worries me, too. I've come to realize she has a fairly-addictive personality, and for some reason she's really obsessed with sodas. The weird thing is that she doesn't care that much whether they are sweet or diet, caffeinated or decaffeinated -- it seems to be the fizzy-drinkness of it that gets to her. So she's not physically-addicted to the sugar or caffeine -- it's psychological.
I am a sugar addict and slightly a caffeine addict. The sugar thing dates back to my childhood when I was hypoglycemic and hence very much encouraged to eat and drink sweets. Happily, I have little tendency toward alcoholism and have never wanted to get into harder drugs -- I've never even smoked pot.
I could see that. I think there's supposed to be a "Brotherhood Social" episode soon, or is that just a rumor?
Ah, Pride and Prejudice. I remember a time I used to mock my mother for watching the TV versions all the time and leaving the tapes in the VCR, which meant I had to keep taking them out so I could put in the mindless shit I used to watch. Many years later, I decided "what the hell" and started reading the book.
I don't think I've ever been more pleasantly surprised by anything compared to what I was expecting of this book. I won't say it's the best thing I've ever read, but it's certainly deserving of all the praise it gets, if you ask me.
About the whole "missing the point" thing: mock him all you want, but Tim's expectations aren't 100% unwarranted. There's no reason why the same story couldn't have been told without adding complexity to Wickham's character and stuff like that. It doesn't prevent the story from working, although adding so many extra details does cause problems with efficiency. No matter how much more interesting and "colorful" the book could become, at a certain point these details just add unnecessary length to the tale that still has the same message. Pride and Prejudice doesn't talk about things like the Elizabeth's "private times with herself" (we all know she must have had urges too) because it isn't what the book is trying to emphasize, even if it's true and might be worth knowing.
As for why MLP "doesn't have boobs": first of all, since EQG happened (and yes, I'm going to consider it canon), we do technically have boobs. Do they affect the story? No.
In fact, to be as blunt as possible: even if Twilight Sparkle were to have boobs for the whole series so far, it would have had zero impact on the show overall. You could have had the same exact scenes play out the exact same way, combined with the exact same friendship lessons at the end, and the only difference would be visual.
The show doesn't talk about these things, but not because "it doesn't want to" or "it can do without them." It's meant to be a children's cartoon, which inherently restricts what type of content the writers/artists can add. This is obvious from the "Tank
dieshibernates" episode, which tries so very hard to work around this limitation. They wanted to talk about death, but they couldn't do it directly, so they chose this route, and I don't think they did a very good job. Sure, the metaphor is very obvious (cringeworthy at times), but the problem is that the entire story relies on you recognizing said metaphor. If I take it away, the episode doesn't make any sense. It just paints RD as a dick for not letting her pet do something that it needs to survive, plus it's not like he's going away forever, and they'd be able to do all their awesome stuff again.Of course, one reasonable defense for her actions is that she didn't want to have to let go again so soon after finally getting her own pet. Maybe the episode could have shown her be jealous of everyone else because of their pets not having to hibernate, and she actually considers taking them away, since "if I can't have my pet, they shouldn't have theirs either" (she wouldn't do it though, that would be OOC even for Rainbow). The point here is that there would have been a way to do the episode that still alludes to the "my pet died" thing, but it makes sense in context as well. But if the show tries to directly reference something that it's "not allowed" to reference (since it's a cartoon for little girls), it's bound to run into problems.
It's worth noting that the shooting stars (which supposedly reference AJ's deceased parents) are far better as a reference to death than the entire "Tanks for the Memories" episode. The former is short, subtle, and doesn't at all try to force the boundaries placed on the show. The latter just tries way too hard.
And this is where fanfiction comes in. If you ask me, the purpose of fanfiction is to do things that the show cannot, while also working with the same core message in mind. The main gimmick should still be "friendship is magic", but whilst the show cannot try to put mature content into the mix and pull off the same feat, fanfiction has no such limitations. Just as there's no point in writing a fanfic that has nothing to do with the spirit of MLP (the only link being that "it has ponies in it"), I don't see the reason why one should work hard to write a story that's almost exactly like something from the show. Even if it's a good story, it clings to a world already inhabited by the source material. Conversely, a story that has things like sex and violence in it might have a radically different tone, but if it still tries to deliver the same message, I'd say it's a more creative work.
All that said: no, I don't think people are "missing the point" if they want boobs and sex and drugs and rock&roll in their pony. The lack of those things isn't some "bold statement" the writers are trying to make. If MLP:FiM were a show on Adult Swim that refused to add any mature content (despite not having to), that might be different. As it is now, it's a children's cartoon trying to remain a children's cartoon because some higher ups said so.
3144201
First: You invalidate your entire argument by insinuating that we live in a universe where violence is not allowed to exist on a kids' show owned by the same corporation responsible for Transformers, G.I. Joe, and the more adventure-focused MLP G1. I don't even. The show has had violence repeatedly. There's a frickin' melee brawl against
the Diamond Dogs inSeason 1. Queen Chrysalis in Season 2 yep I'm tiredSecond: Twilight's Kingdom invalidates your entire argument by having the crux of the episode be the fact that possessing ultimate destructive power (and the violence which followed) proved to be completely ineffective against the looming threat while a rainbow-lighted concentration of "good vibes" brought about by friendships made across the country dispatches him in five seconds.
This is the definition of a bold statement, and a single example of why people who want more, say, traditional shonen fare or (lol) "mature" elements in this show miss the point now and forevermore. One has only to take the consistency of the lessons of the show and the problem-solving tactics of the ponies when dealing with antagonists into account.
Tangentially related: there has also been an onscreen "war." The war was fought with pies.
img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130104082744/mlp/images/thumb/6/67/Appleloosa_Preparing_For_Battle_S1E21.png/640px-Appleloosa_Preparing_For_Battle_S1E21.png
Third: You again invalidate your entire argument by admitting yourself that the metaphor in Tanks For The Memories was "obvious." Therefore there is no "taking away that metaphor," as it's permanently grafted within (and smartly handled, btw; last I checked, alluding to something while leaving visible, clever hints without completely spelling everything out was how subtlety was executed, not poking at a concept with a stick with so little allusion that it takes weeks of fan speculation culminating in Word of God for people to get the message), and accessible via a modicum of thought. Kids, meanwhile, are smart, and human beings have the ability to rewatch things and see things they couldn't before.
So if a double-digit-aged nerd can't grasp something that's been approved for five-year-old girls, and constantly just keeps parroting "but he'll be okay in three months", or "why didn't Rainbow go to jail," that's not the episode's problem, that's the nerd's for missing the point.
Fourth: Rainbow's always a dick.
Finally:
Close, but factually incorrect. The purpose of fanfiction is to ask "what if", and to indulge in hypothetical situatons--in other words, to do things the show has not while ideally working with its core messages and themes. What the show cannot do is merely a subset of this. If one were to take a war series and write a heartful fanfic where a major battle is thwarted by people talking about their feelings, that would be no more or less "creative" than the eighty billion fanfics on this place that think MLP really needs more guns or sex or human males running around for no reason. Stories that are show-faithful are no more or less creative than ones that try to bend, or break, the show's rules.
But only one route more closely and visibly demonstrates an understanding of what the show is intentionally doing, and what it's about.
3143897 Well, how much we apply our health code depends on person to person. Most LDS folk I know of stick with the basic rules of no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco, or recreational drugs (and of course misuse of medical drugs)--caffeine itself is sort of a mixed bag. I did say my brother liked Mountain Dew before he quit, and that has caffeine in it. And my dad drinks diet Pepsi. Granted, those have less than coffee does. Of course, with caffeine tending to be addictive, some folks go, "Nope." And I think there are some people who eschew soda in general.
So... she's addicted to the carbonation for some reason? Well, can't say I've heard that before.
I admit I've got a thing for sugar as well. If there's candy or dessert at wherever place I'm at, you can bet that I'll be taking some and munching on it--especially if I'm at said place for an event that's kind of boring. Also, I apparently eat cheese enough to be labeled a "Cheese-atarian".
Though the classic cheesy dessert of cheesecake... eh... I don't like it.
And as for the episode... well, considering that a few of the rumored episodes turned out to be true, seems like "Brotherhooves Social" might end up being a real episode. I don't know for sure.
3144201
The problem is that Pride and Prejudice is written in fairly-tight limited third person, with Lizzie Bennett as POV character. And Lizzie only knows about Wickham what he reveals to her through his conversation and actions, and through what others tell him of him. This leads to a whiplash in her opinion of him: if you may recall, she is initially attracted to him, then repulsed when she realizes how he's harmed Lydia and learns how he harmed Georgiana. Lizzie is smart and perceptive, to be true, but definitely not as smart nor as perceptive as she imagines at the start of the book -- in a lot of ways, she's naive. Wickham fools her at the beginning.
Wickham isn't cosmically and foully evil, of course. He's just a selfish man who sees his most important assets as being charming and handsome, realizes that he's going to have to marry his way into a good economic position, and is unscrupulous enough that whether or not he destroys his intended's reputation and relationship with her family in the process doesn't really matter all that much from his POV. He's also a sexual opportunist; I don't believe that he originally means to marry Lydia when he has her run away with him (technically he "abducts" her both by the terminology of c. 1800 and c. 2000 due to the fact that Lydia would be a minor under both legal systems and furthermore under ours couldn't sexually consent to anything, but Lydia is all too willing).
Indeed, we're not even entirely sure in the book if Wickham deflowers Lydia during that escapade. Probably yes, but the larger issue is that it doesn't matter. Under the rules of decorum of Regency England, Lydia would be assumed to have been ruined by him, regardless of what actually happened, since there was most definitely no chaperone present. And this assumption would have greatly reduced Lydia's marital prospects, and quite rationally so: not only would some hypothetical future suitor have been getting "damaged goods," but even more importantly, Lydia demonstrated her poor judgement by running off with Wickham -- she would be more likely to make an unfaithful wife.
A lot of PaP fanfic agrees to me on that last point -- it's generally assumed that both Wickham and Lydia are repeatedly unfaithful to one another. I think it's Lizzie's expressed opinion as well, though she uses euphemisms to describe what she is probably envisioning as a future hell on Earth of indfidelity, quarrels and possibly outright violence awaiting Wickham and Lydia as man and wife. I also think Lizzie's glad of her own escape: she probably wouldn't have been foolish enough to run off with Wickham, but she might well have fallen in love with and married him, if she'd had a bit more money and Wickham had been a bit more seriously interested in her.
The problem with expanding Wickham's characterization would be that Wickham is a liar and hence very unreliable regarding himself, and the characters who did get to know him well (Mr. Darcy, Georgiana and Lydia) are all prejudiced regarding him (Darcy and Georgiana by his betrayal, Lydia due to her current love for him). With Lizzie as viewpoint, we would need to have a scene where Wickham decides to unburden himself to her -- but he can't do this before running off with Lydia, and he would be unlikely to do this to a Lizzie who hated his guts (as she does by the end of the book). It would really need a whole new novel about Wickham in particular, and that's not what Jane Austen wanted to write.
One could, of course, write all sorts of fanfiction about Wickham. He might be worse than the naive Lizzie Bennett realizes, or better than either Darcy or Lizzie realize. Maybe he meant to marry a rich woman and live off her fortune while denying her the enjoyment of it. Or maybe he really did love Georgiana (he was, after all, raised with her) and does now love Lydia (yes, Lizzie sees Lydia as a foolish little tramp by the end of the book, but then Lizzie's her sister, not her lover). Either is certainly possible.
3144201
It's an art style issue. We may logically assume that the (female) Ponies have udders with two teats, just like real equines and exactly where you'd expect them (rear part of belly, just before the vagina). We may also assume that the Pony mares have vaginas and anuses, which are sometimes visible depending upon posture (especially tail position); and the stallions have (sheathed) penises and scrotums, which are also sometimes visible depending upon posture.
And they aren't ever going to depict this on the show. And it doesn't really matter if they do or not. In fact, if they drew the whole thing in detail, it might create a bad Translation Convention, because it's not that significant to the Ponies themselves. Not that they wouldn't be horrified if their udders and genitalia vanished, but rather that they have all grown up in a society where nudity is the norm, so it's no big deal to them, unless they're contemplating nursing or having sex.
Giving Pony mares breasts where Human women have breasts looks bizarre, because they're not primates, they're odd-toed ungulates. Their anatomy should be consistent.
"Boobs and sex" are implied, though I think it's also implied that the mainstream Equestrian culture is sexually-conservative by c. 2015 standards. Drugs? Well, I'm fairly sure that they drink alcoholic beverages, and there are probably narcotics and stimulants -- precisely which, and how legally and socially acceptable these are, is a matter for world-building. There are definitely numerous forms of music, at least one of which is translated in the musical terms of rock and roll -- though one should be aware that just as the Equestrian Ponies are neither speaking English nor for the most part using the phoneme set of English, their music is probably quite alien -- what we're hearing is a Translation Convention.
3143660
Mountain Dew is seriously caffeine-heavy. To the point that I rarely drink it, though for some reason the Baja Blast version of it sold by Taco Bell tastes better. Not sure why -- it may for all I know have less caffeine, or just be masked better. I don't know if you know this, but the natural taste of caffeine is bitter, it's a poison the coffee plant makes to kill insects that try to eat its beans. That's why coffee is a bitter drink, and why it's popular to stir in sugar.
Coffee itself of course is much richer in caffeine than is Coke or Pepsi or even Mountain Dew. But then one usually doesn't drink as much coffee as one might soda. My sister-in-law actually doesn't like coffee, which is I suppose a good thing as if she were as addicted to coffee as she is to soda, she'd be seriously endangering her health.
(*sigh*) I used to love sweet flavored milks. Chocolate milk, strawberry milk --also, when I was a child, milk shakes were one of my favorite treats. I still sometimes drink milk shakes, but I pay for doing so afterward.
3144293
Oh, heck, A Canterlot Wedding deals with the issue of sibling-love versus romantic love, brings up some of the most obvious reasons why a sibling would be jealous of her sibling's lover, and then answers the questions posed by showing that one need not be jealous of real love, because both the sibling and the lover have the best interests of the beloved at heart, and hence should be natural allies rather than rivals. I could write an essay about this -- it's not accidental that the protagonist in this one was the most obviously virginal character out of the whole Mane Six, nor that some of what Chrysalis was doing was meant to remind one of spouse abuse and/or kinky sex. Nor that the genuine Cadance was one of the sweetest and most decent mares in the whole series.
3144293
You invalidate your counterargument by assuming that I meant "violence in general". I'm pretty sure you wouldn't compare the violence in MLP:FiM to the average Metalocalypse episode, just to name one example.
The point I was trying to make is that it's easy for an "all ages" cartoon to have a message that "violence isn't the answer", since it won't ever have that much violence in it to begin with. I'd like to see anyone try to pitch an R-rated version of MLP to Hasbro and use the argument "but it's gonna teach people about friendship!" to convince them.
In fact, let me just turn your argument back against you: imagine a new Transformers cartoon series where each time the two sides clash, you'd have a 5 minute long battle scene, followed by the "good guys" going "No! This won't work. Friendship is the answer!" So they'd quickly do a group hug, and the bad guys would get banished/killed/whatever in a giant rainbow laser beam. Beyond that, you would have 15-20 episodes per season, all consisting of giant robots trying to deal with everyday problems completely unrelated to "intergalactic conflicts" or whatever, followed by a friendship lesson at the end. Assuming that even those friendship lessons would be really good, do you think it would be a series worth watching?
No, because Transformers is supposed to be about giant robots beating each other to a pulp. This is the series where Hasbro gets to appeal to its consumers that are into mindless action. Meanwhile, MLP is the series where Hasbro appeals to other demographics with different tastes.
Even if a metaphor is super-blatant, it's still a metaphor, and because the show apparently can't talk about death directly, the writers needed to make sure the plot makes sense both in its own context and if you consider the meaning behind it. That said, "Tanks for the Memories" could technically make sense if we pretend it's just about "Tank needs to hibernate", but it makes RD's reaction completely out of character. She does stupid things quite often, but she has better sense than what's shown here.
Actually, here's the thing: the episode tries to have it both ways. Everyone else reacts as though Tank were fine (i.e the "double-digit nerds" you mentioned), whilst RD acts as though he were terminally ill (or already dead). To me, that's just shoddy writing, and what's disappointing is that as soon as you either focus on RD overreacting or Tank really dying, you get a really good episode. The former would be RD learning that she can't start harming others just because her pet gets taken away for a few months, while the latter is your usual "how to deal with a loved one's death" episode.
3145213
The act of violence is the act of violence, "cartoony" or non. You didn't specify the intensity, and I was hoping neither of us had to because common sense. The majority of popular kids' shows have problems be solved by hitting a thing with another thing or a person with another person, within the context of that show's universe. Hasbro's been no stranger to this, either in TF where it's the norm, or Pony where it often happens, proves to be ineffective, then friendship wins instead.
There's no invalidation here because... well, common sense. Intensity doesn't play into it. And as you just said, in Pony it isn't the point, whether it be because audiences or whatever.
So would I! I could use the laughs. But that's also exactly what people constantly pining for "mature" themes look like when they post those grievances on the forums here.
That's a good question.
My in-all-seriousness answer at current is, replace "giant robots" with "the pilots of giant robots who fight with said robots a bunch" and you've got Gundam Build Fighters which is actually a pretty smashing watch. The most intense it ever gets in terms of stakes is "yo, shady megacorp?" So yeah, I think even that kind of whacked-out formula can work.
Man, now you've got me wondering if the SoL treatment could work for TF
I bet it could!
I agree. Which is why it really irks me that so many double-digit nerds (
) hyper-focused on the latter not happening instead of the former, which was happening and was the point. She came across a thing she couldn't change no matter how much she tried, which is a new thing for her, and that thing was close to her heart. So first, she got stupid, and then, she imploded. "Three months" is the trees, the ramifications of a Tank-less winter on Dash is the forest. I will forever fail to see why people will get stuck on something so simple. Dislike, it, sure. Call it unfortunate they couldn't use a real death, sure. But there's nothing about the episode that doesn't line up if you examine the characters as opposed to the numbers. You really couldn't pull that episode off with anyone but Dash, who isn't exactly someone who looks before she leaps, even in later seasons. Maybe you could with Spike, but that's about it--and then everyone would have just looked at it as another eye-rolling "Spike episode" because double standards. 
(Also, true to her character, Twilight was the only "nerd" in that scene. Everyone, even AJ, treated the situation with the same gravitas it held for Rainbow.)
Meanwhile, trying to force the consequences of Rainbow's actions into the episode isn't the point of the story in the slightest. Let it happen onscreen for the people who really want RD to go to jail, and even then, you could handle that in five seconds. But the episode emphasizes making peace with what you cannot change at the end instead because that's the kind of thing that MLP is concerned about.
Double-meanwhile, she tore up a magical weather factory because it was a hilarious thing that five-year-old girls aren't going to replicate in real life. But, as it always does, the episode showed the acts of wanton destruction to not be effective in the slightest (they actually hasten the onset of the very thing Dash was trying to prevent.) Karma did the work here, leaving everypony happy but Rainbow and a couple janitors/pegasus techs. All was fine.
3144487
Yep.
The best aspect of this show (at least for me) is how it so often takes issues aimed far above the target audience, but manages to distill them down into things easily digestible for said target audience. It's a level of writerly skill I wish I could achieve in this lifetime.
This was pretty interesting to read.
(For anypony reading this, who cares >.<, could you please read my story in progress and give me your downright Celestia's honest truth? Be harsh if you have too! Drill it into me! Please! I want to be my own harshest critic, and I feel the only way I can be that, is I get an objective, outside viewing of my story... please. I feel I have a good story, background, etc., but I feel in particular the dialogue is considerably lackluster/cliché, my characters may be completely inaccurate representations of who they are in the show, and the level of detail in my story may not be as descriptive as I would like it to be...)
I just came here seeking help, any sort of help...
I... I don't quite know what I'm doing here. I've just come here to discuss my own securities and worries; my own story http://www.fimfiction.net/story/275373/unbecoming has received almost as many dislikes as there are likes... yet nopony has spoken on the reason why they disliked my story... (I know that indeed I may be creating something [my worrisome] from nothing, and I also know that there is virtually no way to please everypony, as ponies vary.) I also have my own dislikes whereupon, as I read other ponies stories here on FiMfiction, I felt myself perhaps being inaccurate with my characterizations of Rainbow Dash, even Twilight, and perhaps Celestia. These stories I have today have furthered my understanding of these characters. From the simplistic writing style of Kalennighteyes' http://www.fimfiction.net/story/195681/dreams-of-loss, to the eloquent, tacit , and sophisticated style of Gravekeeper's http://www.fimfiction.net/story/22364/a-lot-like-you, to the absolutely contemplative and philosophical dialogue sequences, complimented by visually stunning imagery by Tamar's http://www.fimfiction.net/story/11661/1/tea/tea, I am tauntingly conflicted about just what writing style / methodology I should employ in relation to the story I am writing... I have always been enamored and enthralled with the English language, where writing can be breathtaking, as seen in "A Lot Like You", and in writings I have written previously, before coming to FiMFiction. I write flow-of-consciousness stylistically, because I find, from my own experience, I procure the best writings come from my immediate reactions, which, to the touchstone of my validity, seems to be definitive. However, in writing in such a sophisticated manner, there is a paucity of simplicity. Simplistic stories, as shown in the story "Dreams of Loss", where descriptions of ponies, and of their dialogue responses, are basic, and convey perfectly their story in an epic way... no need for superfluity, just simple, and cuts right to the point. Simplistic stories can be just as magnificent and breathtaking as Gravekeeper's, Shakespeare's, etc.. I do not boast and do not say that my story is among these ponies; in fact, I can only hope that my story could even match to be on level with these stories, and with these ponies, for, they have indeed piqued my interest, and have been ingrained in my mind much like Kkat's Fallout: Equestria and FuzzyVeeVee's Murky Number Seven. They are truly an inspiration and standard for me that I do so wish to achieve commensurately.