Some S4 thoughts on the Elements of Harmony (**spoilers**) · 2:14am Nov 26th, 2013
NOTE: POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE NEW S4 OPENER. Not huge ones, but still, if you haven't seen it yet, this will ruin a few things.
Hence, a little bit of spoiler space:
We ready? Good.
So Present Perfect asided in a spoilerriffic review of the new episode:
Did anyone notice the Elements each sister used? Luna had Loyalty, Honesty and Laughter (there goes my headcanon), which gave Celestia Generosity, Kindness and Magic. (I would have switched Laughter and Magic, so that's actually not so bad.)
Not so bad?
NOT SO BAD?
(SEVERE OPINION ADVISORY: incoming Category 3 nerd rage detected)
Granted, Magic = Friendship and Celestia is supposed to be the series Mary Sue exemplar of that virtue, but NO! WRONG!!
Think of the benefits of Luna as Magic:
1) It sets up a sort of Morningstar scenario, where the chosen one becomes the one to fall the farthest, and that has a lot of powerful thematic implications they chose to throw away.
2) Luna is clearly (both thematically and with canon behavior in her appearances so far) very much more an introverted Twilight-style figure, and drawing stronger parallels between her and the current Element of Magic not only offers an embarrassing amount of plot and a reason to connect Twilight with an external mentor/adult figure, but also just makes sense with the shy, ignored one having all the time to study.
3) Gala-sabotaging, Philomena-owning, teacup-overfilling Trollestia is so clearly Laughter it's embarrassing, and Kindness, Generosity, Honesty, and Loyalty already seem appropriately placed. The swap here is obvious.
4) Best pony needs more good things. THIS LOGIC IS CLEARLY UNASSAILABLE SO YOU MAY SAFELY IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE EVER.
Buuuuut … canon has given us an apparent error. We can scream, we can deny, we can hold deeply felt AUs, but in the end we have to grit our non-changeling pony fangs and find a way to work with what we've got.
So, headcanon time!
My working Season 4 theory — up until THE BOX josses it, anyway — will be that the actual nature of the individual Elements reflects their current bearers, rather than six fixed and eternal Elements which seek out bearers matching themselves.
In other words: The Element of Kindness didn't seek out Fluttershy. It became the Element of Kindness because she's Fluttershy.
The new episode offers doubly significant evidence here. Note that we don't actually see any of the Elements' modern differentiation in the flashbacks in which Celestia and Luna use the Elements. Aside from the suspiciously relevant star shape of Magic Purple, all we see are rupees.
First, that tells us that the Elements are capable of self-alteration — that Honesty became apple-shaped when clamping itself around Applejack's neck. This isn't bulletproof evidence that it "became Honesty", but it's certainly suggestive.
Second, it shows us that the Elements were undifferentiated when being used off-label — i.e., as generic MacGuffins by a mere pair of alicorns looking for a power boost.
Granted, this was probably under protest:
CELESTIA: Oh, thank the stars! We've found them!
LUNA: Elements of Harmony, prithee, lend us your might!
ELEMENTS: Hold, mine diminuitive equines.
CELESTIA: What's the problem?
ELEMENTS: Thou art missing bearers four.
CELESTIA: *facehoof*
LUNA: Tis an emergency. I beg thee, overlook this transgression.
ELEMENTS: There are elements six. You are but two.
CELESTIA: We'll take three each. That works, right?
ELEMENTS: 'Twould be unprecedented.
CELESTIA: Look, this cave is the last place in the world that's not trying to eat or mutate or unleash stupid pun-based torments on us. If we have to find four more still-sane ponies, we're all doomed.
LUNA: Well, perhaps Starswirl? And Smart Cookie —
CELESTIA: When last we saw Starswirl, he was spinning around in low Equestrian orbit, and Cookie was running from a small army of blue-furred monsters with googly eyes making "NOM NOM NOM" sounds.
ELEMENTS: We … uh … perhaps an arrangement can be made. But you must embody virtues six! The highest virtues of Harmony!
CELESTIA and LUNA: Seriously?!
ELEMENTS: Six ideals. Six holy words. You must be exemplars of the true bonds of Friendship —
LUNA: Hold! I see the wisdom of thy words. I shall claim "Discord", "Is", and "Rightoutsidethecave".
CELESTIA: And I'll take "Stars", "Preserve", and "Us".
ELEMENTS: … … … Indeed. Uh. "Stars," we can work with that.
The major flaw this theory has to overcome is that, right from the start, in-show material identified the Elements by name. Twilight knew the names of her friends' elements before any of them ever laid eyes on the gems! Doesn't that suggest some sort of continuity?
But think: how did she know that? By reading "The Elements Of Harmony: A Reference Guide." Conveniently sitting on the shelf of her library. A library which … hmm:
Spike: Look on the bright side, Twilight. The Princess arranged for you to stay in a library. Doesn't that make you happy?
Twilight Sparkle: Yes, yes it does. You know why? Because I'm right! I'll check on the preparations as fast as I can, then get to the library to find some proof of Nightmare Moon's return.
Celestia sends Twilight "Every Single Good Thing In The Universe Came Out Of A Book" Sparkle to Ponyville under explicit orders to stop reading and make some friends, and houses her in a library?! Could this be any more blatant? She might as well have titled her planted research material "Rescuing Your Mentor From Nightmare Moon After A Kidnapping At The Summer Sun Celebration, For Dummies". Come to think of it, that was probably there too, in case Pinkie was standing on the other side of the library when they started looking.
Canon's been pretty blatant in Season 3 that Twilight was groomed for her ascension, so even if you don't subscribe to the "Chessmistress Celestia Planned Everything" theory, it's still no stretch to think that the book was there because Celestia wanted it to be. This is supported by what they actually read out of the book:
Pinkie Pie: "The Elements of Harmony: A Reference Guide."
Twilight Sparkle: How did you find that?!
Pinkie Pie: [sing-song voice] It was under "E"!
Twilight Sparkle: Oh. There are six Elements of Harmony, but only five are known: Kindness, Laughter, Generosity, Honesty and Loyalty. The sixth is a complete mystery. It is said, the last known location of the five elements was in the ancient castle of the royal pony sisters.
If this book were legitimate research from a legitimate, unaffiliated scholar, two questions immediately leap out like sore hooves. One, how could someone hear of the Elements' names without knowing the whole set?!
Two, the Elements were sitting right out in the freaking open once they got to the castle. If these legendary lost elements were publically rumored to be there, why wouldn't some intrepid archaeologist have gone out there to confirm it? Also: "It is said"? By whom? The best possible source for their identity and location is still alive and running the freaking kingdom!, and knows exactly what happened. So if this is a legitimate research book rather than a plant, then Celestia undeniably withheld and/or selectively released information about Twilight's mission, and we end up in essentially the same situation as if she wrote it herself.
(Three, now that we've been told about the Tree of Harmony, that seriously begs another question: if Celestia didn't explicitly haul them out to the old castle and drop them there just in time for Twilight's fetch quest … in other words, if she walked away from the castle and they just happened to sit there for a thousand years … why didn't she return them to the tree for safekeeping? It's literally insane to think that she just walked away from them, letting them sit where they lay, and for a thousand years let them sit out in the open, vulnerable to thieves and unusable for Equestrian defense.)
So why would Celestia explicitly name the five Elements but not the central one?
Simple: She set Twilight's friends up.
Seriously, could you have chosen a more perfect cross-section of Equestrian society? A farmer, a weather manager, a nobility-chasing fashionista, a retail-career party gal, and a wilderness-loving recluse. In just a few short years, if Twilight's star-shaped destiny is any guide, she's got to kick-start herself from alienated scholar into royalty, and what better way to ensure she sees the value of every corner of the society she'll have to represent?
So Celestia hoof-picked them (or made appropriate hints for the Mayor to do so) for their various Summer Sun Celebration functions, and then did a few minutes of brainstorming for what to throw into her book on the Elements:
CELESTIA: Hmm. Pinkie Pie … "Laughter," that one's obvious. Rarity's trying to crack into Canterlot high society, so what with noblesse oblige she'll do something "Generous" sooner rather than later. Hmm, but I've already got "Kindness" for that yellow pegasus … ah, heck with it, if I throw a thesaurus on the next shelf over, Twilight will find a way to distinguish them. Applejack … well, they couldn't stop talking about how she was the "most loyal and dependable of ponies." Loyalty, good. And what about that rainbow-haired twit? Hmm … sooner or later she'll stick her hoof in her mouth with all of her bragging and lack of subtlety. "Honesty" ought to be good for some laughs.
End result:
[Nightmare Moon releases the Elements of Harmony from their stony prison.]
Twilight Sparkle: [gasp] You think you can destroy The Elements of Harmony just like that? Well, you're wrong, because the spirits of The Elements of Harmony are right here.
Nightmare Moon: What?
Twilight Sparkle: Applejack, who reassured me when I was in doubt, represents the spirit of... honesty!
CELESTIA, behind a nearby pillar: Wait … WHAT?!
Twilight Sparkle: Fluttershy, who tamed the manticore with her compassion, represents the spirit of... kindness!
Twilight Sparkle: Pinkie Pie, who banished fear by giggling in the face of danger, represents the spirit of... laughter!
Twilight Sparkle: Rarity, who calmed a sorrowful serpent with a meaningful gift represents the spirit of... generosity!
Twilight Sparkle: And Rainbow Dash, who could not abandon her friends for her own heart's desire represents the spirit of... loyalty!
ELEMENTS OF HARMONY: We can SO work with that. (*cracks metaphorical knuckles*)
Celestia then is not Celestia now. She's a far better magic
Alternately she was the bearer of Laughter, and she's become more withdrawn and introverted thanks to her little crazyfit.
She got really into the madness during Luna Eclipsed. I can see her as a Pinkie/Dash-esque crankster.
Hell, it supports her descent into madness. When Pinkie Pie thought she was being abandoned she started losing her goddamned mind (Party of One). Throw in the deceit of nobles (Honesty) and a sense of betrayal (Loyalty)... Bam. Nightmare Moon.
I think I've said all that needs saying ;)
Headcanon accepted
Not bad. Not sure I buy all of it, but not bad at all.
You may have four-and-a-half Pinkies out of five. But since cutting Pinkie in half would be terrible.
Anyway, I had a similar idea watching the episode that the elements do represent fundamental things, but not quite those named in the show. Especially 'magic.' Is the sixth element magic? Or friendship? Well the show tells us friendship is magic, doesn't it? So is it one, the other, or both? The theory I'd use if I were to write a fic about it would be that the sixth element represents "Things Being Otherwise." It represents potentiality. And depending on the time it was wielded it could be magic, friendship, or hope.
And, actually, I think when Celestia was carrying it it was hope.
The other ones, too, conform to fit their bearers and their nature was locked when Twilight named them.
But this is just fan-theorizing, of course. It's fun, though.
One more wild theory: What with the way the elements snap into/out of the tree with little slots and doors opening and everything, doesn't the tree look suspiciously built? And since the sisters found it QUITE a long time ago, the question becomes: who built it? I feel a Ken MacLeod quote coming on. Ahem:
Do you ever feel, in your caves of steel,
The chill of an ancient fear?
Do you shudder and say, when you pass this way,
A human once walked here?
They've cut off our heads, but we're not dead,
And we're bound by an ancient vow.
That does not sleep which dreams in the deep,
We're the Great Old Ones now!
Heh.
Holy head canon batman! I always like the idea of chess master Celestia. Of course, I also think Celestia and Luna are aliens who terriformed the Land with magic. (So does imploding colon/ short skirts and explosion.)
1541916 Exactly. Plus you have to consider that Celestia and Luna were apparently capable of embodying all 6 elements individually. They were likely using the elements that fit them best, but Celestia does have Laughter Loyalty and Honesty as well. Just as Celestia is capable of raising and lowering the moon. I would suspect, however, that using all six at once caused them to become the inert stones we knew them as.
And alternate theory is since Alicorns embody Earth Pony, Pegasus, and Unicorn, each of their races could embody one element safely.
As long as we're extrapolating teetering stacks of speculation from tiny shards of evidence, let's add one more piece. In Magical Mystery Cure, Celestia refers to the virtues as "charity, compassion, devotion, integrity, optimism, and ... leadership." Why the change from the usual taxonomy?
Well, is it possible that the virtues aren't simple ideas that can be fully described with a single English word? Does it seem reasonable that these primordial forces could be more complex than that, and mouth-noises like "laughter" or "friendship" might be ponykind's well-meaning—but ultimately flawed—attempt to force a nebulous concept into a frame their minds can hope to process?
Let's suppose that's true. In that case, then Luna's elements are loyalty/devotion/fidelity; honesty/integrity/honor/purity; and laughter/optimism/cheerfulness/joy. Celestia's are generosity/charity/self-sacrifice, kindness/compassion/empathy, and friendship/magic/leadership/spark/catalyst.
Except that seems weird. How do Luna's Elements square with the whole "eternal night" thing? And why did Celestia need Twilight and company if she could wield all six Elements herself?
Those questions have the same answer. When Luna fell to the Nightmare, it didn't just ignore her connections to the Elements; it inverted them. Optimism became gloom, loyalty became betrayal, and integrity became corruption. And when Celestia banished her own sister, she sundered her own connections in the process. It may have been necessary (she tells herself), but in meeting violence with violence, she failed to be kind; in imposing such a steep penalty, she failed to be charitable; and most of all, she failed in letting her sister reach that point in the first place—failed as a leader, failed as a sister, and failed as a friend. Maybe the Elements can forgive that... but Celestia can't.
You missed something. To do all that, she'd need an agent working for her in Ponyville. Someone who is the first one to see her in town, conveniantly owns full body suits of all the other mane 5, is familiar with dressing up as a spy, and found the planted element of harmony book in the first place, perhaps?
--arcum42
Oh god make it so
I think there's some merit in this, although I don't quite understand it. But I feel it jibes well with the "the Elements aren't jewels but their bearers" thing. Which has kind of gone by the wayside since they're getting rid of the jewels and making a big deal out of having them or not or maybe by getting rid of them they realize they don't need them anymore to do friendship magic kind of like in EQG holy shit
Um... Oh my. Macguffins make everything complicated, don't they?
Wait, that sentence can't possibly be true.
Hmm. Well, at any rate, it has always seemed rather moot to me; The Element of
BullshitMagic is, by the show's title, representative of all the, as Twilight put it in a one-off, "Elements of Friendship;" which is, in her quote and for all intents and purposes, exchangeable with Harmony. Holding such as a premise, and with the further premises that the elements to which one is assigned (or which are assigned to her, or however it works) signify those... Elements which one represents, and that Celestia possessed the element of magic (which, at least, we know to be a sound premise) can't we conclude that Celestia represents all the Elements, so it wouldn't matter which ones (besides Magic) decided to float around her?It would also explain how she could use them without Luna's aid. Then again, the above does not rule out Luna's also being a master of all the Elements before she was corrupted, so she just happened to get those elements at that moment. And considering the disconnect between animators and writers, I think we could safely assume, were we moved in such a direction, that the tiny scene in which the elements floated to one side or the other was, well, arbitrary.
But such is just me trying to keep things as simple as a moderate consistency will allow. I'm too slow to process a lot of headcannon, so I think I'll roll with it. You n' PP are crazy with your complex plots n' intricate, thoughtful designs n' whatnot.
I'm very glad to see that someone else recognized the Rupees of Harmony. I was beginning to think I was the only one.
I'm going to have to disagree on the idea of their changing nature, though. The whole shatter-and-reassemble deal was probably a unique case. Besides, the idea of the underpinning concepts being mutable doesn't feel very elemental to me. Water has always been dihydrogen monoxide, even back when we were too busy running from giant hungry things to do gas spectroscopy.
1541937
Yeah, I think Pinkie reproduces by fission, so you'd get two Pinkies that way...
Now for my headcanon answers:
A) Why didn't she return them to the tree for safekeeping?
Because the Elements had become simple stones, after being betrayed by both Celestia and Luna by being used for disharmony. (Luna turned to NMM, Celestia banishing her sister)
B) So why would Celestia explicitly name the five Elements but not the central one?
Because the last (not necessarily central) Element had left, as in gone, may never return, might come back with a different virtue, etc...
C) It's literally insane to think that she just walked away from them, letting them sit where they lay, and for a thousand years let them sit out in the open, vulnerable to thieves and unusable for Equestrian defense.)
1) They're useless lumps of stone right now. 2) What would they use five rocks for in Equestrian Defense, catapult ammo? 3) Karma, or Fate. Think of it this way: Any thief who would go all the way through the Everfree Forest to pick up any of the five rocks would have to be driven by something more than money. After all, they're rocks. The only way he/she would be there is if they were meant to be there. To bring them back to Canterlot and store them in a vault only would show how valuable they were, and invite theft. Plus the Everfree makes a darned good vault.
My headcanon on the Elements used by Luna/Celestia is actually based on Luna:
Princess Luna
Generosity: She had given so much to her ponies in her beautiful night, only to be spurned and ignored.
Laughter. The Night is filled with joy and the pleasures of romance. (Face it, Laughter is the only sensual element)
Magic. Using the power of the Element of Magic is what allowed Luna to transform herself into Nightmare Moon.
Princess Celestia
Loyalty. Celestia remained loyal to the ponies of Equestria, even though she had to banish her sister to the moon.
Kindness. Although she is a ruler and sits above all other ponies, she has always been compassionate and kind instead of the tyrant she could have easily turned into.
Honesty. Actually I'll fudge on this one. How you can be a politician and a diplomat, and still be honest is beyond me.
Yeah, I've used this meme in a lot of my stories now.
I think your first point about seting up thematic implications is off-base.
The current Element distribution holds the perfect setup for Luna's fall:
The Element Of Loyalty betraying her sister and her nation.
The Element Of Laughter being overtaken with jealousy.
The Element Of Insignificant Background Characters doing something that matters.
I'm not sure why you're getting that from the elements changing shape rather than from the Element of Magic turning entitled jerks into demons on its own accord. Thus showing it's not remotely a force of good.
I'm thinking the other way around - she picked Laughter, Generosity etc. as the best elements for saving Luna and then selected the ponies.
I know I watched that scene with my derpy-spotting detail eyes on. I too noted the three-a-piece thing, because I used it myself in a story written half a year ago. I attributed Magic to Luna, which while not fitting with canon, still gives me warm tinglies.
We Lunatics gotta stick together, eh?
This post and the comments are the best post episode spec I have read.
1542033
This, sir. REJOINDERS LIKE THIS ARE WHY YOU'RE MY NEMESIS.
1542033 1541916 1542744 1542217 1542033
> When Luna fell to the Nightmare, it didn't just ignore her connections to the Elements; it inverted them.
I acknowledge this as a plausible and compelling opposing theory. Stepping back and taking a look at the bigger picture, though — I do think that the epitome of friendship is not fully encompassed in the six show virtues, nor in the greater concept clouds encompassing the six words. What about humility, for instance? If we're calling laughter/optimism/joy a virtue of friendship, surely humility's got just as good a claim: knowing when to shut up and take your friends' good advice is a valuable interpersonal skill.
If there are more than six virtues (and I came up with that almost off the top of my head, so I'm sure there's several others not related to these seven), the Elements of Harmony would be better served in staying flexible and inserting themselves in where needed, rather than ignoring broad swaths of positive behavior.
1541937
Friendship/magic/hope/potentiality. Hmm. "My Little Pony: Friendship Is Something Positive"? WAIT NO.
I would … actually put non-zero odds on Season 4 talking more about the Elements of Harmony's origin. Clearly there's a story arc which is going to return to the tree after a few twists and turns and revelations. So rather than join in your speculation, for the moment I'll just admire the MacLeod.
1542020
> I also think Celestia and Luna are aliens who terraformed the Land with magic
Presented without comment.
1542407
> the Elements had become simple stones, after being betrayed by both Celestia and Luna …
Hm! Are you suggesting that there's nothing actually magical about the Elements themselves, that they're powered by their bearers? That has some other interesting implications.
1543804
Glad someone read Point 4. bestpony.ch/images/ponies/luna.png
1546112
Hmm. Reading Benman's comment, it's possible that humility is included in the overarching ur-concept symbolized by either Kindness or Generosity.
There we may have a compromise: The Elements have set spheres on influence, but different facets of that influence come to the fore depending on the nature of the bearer.
Stuff like this is why I love you. That and Ms Harshwhinny and the cougars.
1546112 that looks like one of the best collections of short stories on the site. I shall read It. It's funny cause I use the exact same picture of spike writing something for the cover of my own story, I Don't Know What to Write! I'm a little worried about the cougars and Harshwinny though. And I won't report you or anything, but parodies of copyrighted song lyrics are against this site's TOS... Um, if that's okay with you
1547110
Song parodies are a gray area. According to the official site post on the matter:
I put those up in good faith that they are "sufficiently heav[ily]" transformed to not stir up trouble. I'm not copying the original lyrics — I'm basically rewriting them from scratch. There's only tiny scattered shreds of the original words in there.
That having been said, I am aware that it's a gray area, and if the mods later decide to take them down, I'll accept that judgment.
1547282 fair enough
1542033
Thank you, sir, you've said what I might.