I've noticed a big acceptance of F/F fanfictions, Sparity fanfictions, and even fanfictions involving incest. However, every time someone post a M/M fanfic, people go all "OMG gay" or something stupid like that, and the fanfic, no matter how good it is, generally obtains a few down votes. What's up with that? You would think that the Brony fandom would be the last to be homophobic, so what's the deal? And why is it okay for F/F and incest/pedophilia but not for M/M?

I know this doesn't apply for every story, but I've noticed a lot of homophobia on this site when it comes to that.

828439
Stupid, isn't it? Another word is hypocritical.

828439 I accept that folks write M/M fics because there are those who would enjoy such a fic.

I just don't read them

Although I'll admit to skimming through Charmingly Rustic

828439
It's because everyone loves a lesbian.

828439 There is a bit of a double standard yes. In all honesty I think the F/F ships are largely accepted because we adore seeing the mane six shipped, and they are all females... Well, them and Lyrabon and Taviscratch.

I believe it's because the majority of fans who write MLP fanfics are males, and males tend to avoid the M/M stuff.

(I accept M/M pairings, but only if it is done really well)

Yes, it is, I guess. It just isn't done a lot for some reason.

It's just most of the fans are male and like f/f, etc, better than m/m because... Well, they're guys.

828439 I hate males period if it makes you feel any better

The problem that I see with them: At least 3/4 of the ones I stumble across are clop or have clop in them. Sorry, I don't care if they want to love another guy. But I don't want to hear about them banging.

Wow, that really happens here? Damn, I'm missing a lot...
Well, I just simply don't read M/M fics and don't bother myself with this. I don't even dislike it, just go away, untouched.

828439 I can’t speak for everyone but I’m fine with them. In fact there’s a group dedicated to M/M shipping and it’s about the fifth most popular shipping group if I recall correctly.

Seriously though, I think if you don’t like the idea of something just don’t read it and leave it alone. No one should be persecuted for writing what they want to write about. People shouldn’t brandish peoples comment boxes with obscenities about such things. Not that you shouldn’t say you don’t like something if you don’t like it, but be reasonable about it.

828439

Bronies are, on the whole, afraid of cock.

Seriously, pedophiles get more positive response here than m/m fics.

828439 Nope, fags go to Hell. Repent and join the Westboro Baptist Church.

Just kidding luv u gaiz

There is nothing wrong with being gay! *addresses the title* But yeah, there seems to be a weird balance of lesbian and M/M love and hate here. In my opinion, I like F/F shipping, but that's a given in this fandom. But M/M shipping is just so ADORABLE. I mean seriously, Twixie? Okay. But Shipping Soarin' and Breburn is just win.

828439 Well there are a few things you need to keep in mind with a M/M fic. First of all, in the fandom, Equestria is generally imagined as having more females than males, which in its imaginary society would make F/F relationships more acceptable than M/M. Also, personally I don't have a problem with it, but human civilization as a whole is also more comfortable with a female homosexual relationship than a male homosexual relationship. Prejudice? Perhaps...but it is a truth you can't avoid. All I can suggest is that first of all, you let your readers know that such a fic is M/M, and also prepare for the fact that it's highly unlikely such a fic will be anywhere near as popular as a "common" romance or even a F/F.

Like I said, it's just a truth you're going to need to accept.

828439

It's definitely a double standard. I would tack it down to the general double standard in society: lesbians are hot, but gay men are effeminate/creepy/weird/gross/insertnegativeadjectivehere. I am a lesbian but I will read a good M/M story. In fact, one of my favorite stories in this fandom is "My Time Among Clothes Hangers," an awesome little fic about Pokey Pierce discovering his sexuality and feelings for Ace (the tennis player in "Call Of The Cutie").

That, and men tend to be more homophobic than women. Why? Women are used to being seen as sexual objects by men (i.e. someone thinking of them as sexually desirable is not a foreign, strange, scary concept), so women seeing them in the same way isn't as intimidating as the opposite is for a man. In other words, a (straight) man is not used to thinking himself as a sexual object, so the concept of a man looking at him like he looks at women can be unsettling at the least.

With two females, a straight male can at least imagine himself as one of the females, I think, or enjoy their romance from afar. With two males, there really isn't much for him there. Personally, I enjoy all sorts of ships if they are written well. Clop is another story...

M/M shipping has a lot of less fans than F/F. Most males look favorably to lesbian stuff but that doesn't go for females and gay stuff.

That, and there are still a lot of trolls/scum/homophobic bastards on this site who downvote everything and hate on everything.

828439

Yes, it just as okay to be male and gay as it is to be female and gay.

A lot of people don't see it that way however, and since a lot of the M/M stories feature one or more 'original characters' (Braeburn is a show character but doesn't have the recognition of Octavia or Derpy for example, and is thus considered an OC) doesn't help much.

The M/M ships I did read, I liked. They're usually well written and thought out (part of being a minority, not everyone jumps on it) but they are fighting sort of an uphill battle.

That said, yes, there are still people who are okay with F/F but not M/M. It's a pity, but that's how it is.

That's just people joking around or being stupid. Gay fics are fine, just uncommon.

Guys, the only way to promote the tolerance of M/M is for us to all write as many M/M shippings as humanly possible!

Let's get to it!

828451
LOL that explains it all XD.

828488
And so does this

828471
Well gee, when you but it that way, then I guess you're justified.

Yeah, I'm straight and all, but the homophobic responses by ignorant people. It's like, the worst F/F smut will get good ratings, but if you even dare ship Big Mac and Caramel together, then you done messed up boy. Seriously But it's good to know there are some rational (and funny ) Bronies in this fandom

828439

Very true. But you have to admit, M/M shipping is pretty much new territory for us.

The majority of us will adjust to it.

828548

You have to admit tho, for a group post about writing male homosexuality into stories, I'm surprised nobody posted this yet.

I see a lot of pretty common theories here. I'm going to side with the whole "straight men freak out when viewed as a sexual object" perspective, 'cause it tends to be true. The double-standard has always thrown me for a loop, however, and makes me wonder how sexually open women/girls or "Pegasisters" would tend to feel about homosexuality, if it's the same way straight men feels about lesbianism.

My theory as to why there are so few M/M ships outside of this reasoning is simple -- there are fairly few male characters and they're seldom seen interacting, therefore it'd take a lot more imagination to visualize how Big Mac and Shining Armor would have a relationship (though Big Mac and Braeburn is a bit common ^^). That's just a thought

Personally, there's little that bothers me in the fetish world. M/M ships don't bother me at all. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them. I'm just apparently in the minority. People like different things and that's okay... downvoting something for being sometihng it's supposed to be never made sense to me, however

It is hypocritical. Considering there aren't that many M/M fics in the first place, what are they complaining about?

828439 I'd say there are two main reasons that F/F ships tend to be more popular than gay ships:
1. The bulk of the fandom is comprised of heterosexual males, who by definition would be less interested in M/M shipping. It's not necessarily even homophobia; it's just subject matter they don't care for.

2. The vast majority of well-developed characters in the show are female. If you want a gay shipping story that doesn't involve original characters or OC stand-ins (background ponies with fabricated personalities), the number of characters there are to work with are very limited.

I know both of these factors are reasons why I very rarely read M/M shipping. First off, I just don't find it as cute as F/F or hetero shipping, which means it has to be really well written, and then in the vast majority of those cases it involves minor characters that I really don't really care much about it. Take the story that Bad Seed mentioned above, My Time Among Clothes Hangers. It's definitely a well-written story, but it's written about two characters that frankly, I don't really care much about. For all intents and purposes, it's about OCs, and I just never connect much to OC-centric stories unless the rest of the show's cast also play large roles.

828514 There definitelyis something of a double standard in the fandom, but I don't think it's quite as much of a factor as you're making it out to be. It's just that there's so much less gay shipping in the fandom than there is heterosexual or lesbian shipping that the criticism is a lot more visible.

There are definitely people out there who dislike F/F shipping, but there's so much F/F shipping out there that the criticisms are really diluted, whereas with M/M shipping there are so few stories that most of them catch crap for their premises.

I really have nothing against m/m fics, in fact i could care less about them. but as for the whole homophobic thing in the fandom, it weirdly applies to almost all fandoms. fans (mainly males) of anything naturally find yaoi uncomfortable

828578

That's true also. I didn't consider that the amount of F/F criticism is diluted due to the sheer volume of F/F in general.

I was referring to the dislike of M/M pairings being more of a societal thing than a fandom thing, leading to less authorship of them. After all, plenty of F/F fics are written by straight men, whereas the same straight men aren't writing M/M fics in droves.

I feel like this has been said before, but a lot of the time guys are more afraid of gay guys than lesbians. Also, I think some guys are worried that if they read M/M fanfiction, they might be stereotyped as gay, especially since the majority of the world doesn't exactly consider ponies... well... particularly masculine. I'm fine with reading any sort of relationship (well, human/pony weirds me out a little...), but since I'm a straight girl, I don't necessarily represent that much of the fandom.

I think that M/M fics are quite alright, but then again I'll read anything that is written well. Adding anything sexy M/M, F/F, or Celestia forbid M/F parings are just icing on the cake.

Write what you like and write for your target audience. If your target audience is gay then write it anyways and ignore the haters.

828439
It's because the brony community is made up of mostly straight guys. Guys like girl on girl action just fine, but guy on guy action isn't something they like as much. However, this isn't a complete answer, since pegasisters in the fandom have no problem shipping mares. I think they only reason they seem to be more okay with it (but in actuality aren't) is because the main cast is made up of females, and it's easier to put up a mental filter that way. However, to a straight brony, M/M comes of as going way out of your way just to ship two male characters who aren't important to the overall story of MLP:FIM. That assessment is completely unfair, but that's how I think they think. I can't really know for sure since I'm only half straight, but that just seems to be how they think about it.

and even fanfictions involving incest.

that's why I hate clop, right there.

828652
While the forum is on this topic, can you offer a second opinion on my stance on this? I'm genuinely curious if I'm remotely close. Basically, I said that the reason guys seem less comfortable than girls at shipping their own gender together is because the main characters are female and equestria is dominated by mares, making an F/F relationship more feesible than a M/M. I don't really know If I'm completely off base with that opinion, but I'm sure it's not just that girls are less homophobic than guys, because I'd say both genders have an equal number of homophobes.

828451
Ellen DeGeneres theme song much?

I like M/M pairing actually :P.

828694

I think that's part of it, yes; however, in my experience, more guys tend to be /openly/ homophobic than girls. I think a lot of that is the "that's so gay" mindset that a lot of guys seem to get into. Effeminate guys have always faced a lot more criticism than butch girls in my experience, but that might just be my personal environment. Admittedly I do come from a very liberal area where being homophobic is frowned upon more than actually being LGBT, but idk...

828716
That's true. Guys are more open about everything, homophobia especially. I don't see it much irl (Hell, Vermont was the first state to pass gay marriage), but on the internet and even here, it's only explicitly stated by guys.
That's some food for thought, isn't it? Thanks for the perspective.

My own take on the matter here is that most of the teenaged users in this site does not know how to use the upvote/downvote system. I mean, sure there are no clear cut rigid "rules" on why you should upvote or downvote the fic; but the kids in this site does not seem to know how to differentiate theme from content.

For example, even though the stories of Bronystories make me want to puke (specifically his 120 Days of Blueblood), I love the means by which he shows them. I always go back to it as an example of good writing style. The same justice should be done to M/M. I'm not fan of the genre and avoid it like a plague (unless it has good style), but I don't smash the dislike button under the premise of "This does not conform to my sexuality." It's best to leave the ratings of M/Ms to those who actually read it.,

828514

That, and men tend to be more homophobic than women. Why? Women are used to being seen as sexual objects by men (i.e. someone thinking of them as sexually desirable is not a foreign, strange, scary concept), so women seeing them in the same way isn't as intimidating as the opposite is for a man. In other words, a (straight) man is not used to thinking himself as a sexual object, so the concept of a man looking at him like he looks at women can be unsettling at the least.

This is false. Although I'm a guy, from what I understand, it's not that guys are objectify girls more than the opposite, it's that they're just more upfront about it. Girls like guys just as much as guys like girls, the only difference is that one gender likes to talk about it to everyone (guys) and the other likes to either keep it secret or only share it with a few, certainly not the object of their affections (girls).

828736

My own take on the matter here is that most of the teenaged users in this site does not know how to use the upvote/downvote system. I mean, sure there are no clear cut rigid "rules" on why you should upvote or downvote the fic; but the kids in this site does not seem to know how to differentiate theme from content.

And there goes another adult blaming my age for all the problems here. I swear there are just as many teenage stereotypes on here as gay ones. We're not a bunch of immature kids giggling about saying the word penis. I'd say a good deal of us are more mature than out college-aged counterparts. But more to the point, haters are haters no matter their age.

It's perfectly fine to be gay, though I think with population density what it is you'll find there are too many F/F pairings possible in comparison to M/M because well lets face it, that world is largely populated with females. As for the people who are like "Eww gay!" well, some people are just jerks about things.

828548
When Regidar's right, he's right. And that's all the time. I'll ship Davenport with every stallion in Ponyville. YES!!

Most of the good points have been taken, including the "Mongrels" song. But not from a specific angle: the far side of the Proscenium Arch.

Approaching the question from the Equestrian side, from a world-building perspective, there is a sharp gender imbalance towards females. If relationships were meant to promote pairing and equality, more females would pair than could be reasonably guessed from human experience. With magic capable of standing in for medical technology with regards to donation and such it becomes easy to see a culture of sustainable populations of sapphic relationships with a large number of heterosexual relationships. However, it might create a strong social stigma against male homosexuals (maybe they would be seen as taking away potential breeding chances or as betrayers of society.)

As for the site, I got downvote bombed for posting an Appledash fic. As the meme goes, haters gonna hate. And I have had generally neutral or positive reactions to my gay couples like Rosy Cranberry and Golden Stare or Gustave LeGrande and Donut Joe.

828792 Do it!
You'll have like... 2 shippings.

828814
Actually, 4.

828451 That is awesome! I had no idea someone used this song from another of my favorite series, Mongrels. The songwriter for that series is yet another genius.

828759 828736 It's not about "blaming" age, it's just simple observation, and I don't think Wellspring meant it the way you took it. People can't help how they feel right now, but they can alter their behavior and make choices that are less reactionary and more thoughtful over time. For most of us that kind of thing isn't ingrained; we have to learn it. So the younger you are, the less experience you typically have to guide you into into not over-reacting, and let's face it: there's a lot more youth than there is age on this site. Which again is not a bad thing at all; it just is.

828439 Personally, and this is based entirely on my own experience (which I won't pretend is typical), I've almost never read an M/M shipping in any genre, of any form, with any combination of characters, that was not formulaic and so preachy that I wanted to tear my hair out. For reasons I cannot begin to guess at, there is exceedingly little of the obligatory homophobe reciting the same litany of stereotypical anti-gay bullshit in the F/F pairings I've read (this extends outside just FimFiction, by the way). F/F fiction gives more of a sense of "yeah, I've got two girls clopping like mad, so what?", a more casual self-confidence in a lack of need to justify itself, than M/M fiction. Finally, I've never EVER read an F/F fiction where the author freely admits that they're writing it to air out their personal baggage for public consumption.
For these reasons, I will read M/M pairings with an open mind but I've yet to find one with the quality of characterization and storytelling, and a willingness to break from the tired old formula, as I get from the innumerable F/F pairings, even F/F pairings that are meant to be comically bad.

Which, as a footnote, brings up another point: F/F seems able to laugh at itself and what it's doing, M/M takes itself so annoyingly seriously that I have an irrational urge to smack someone over the head and yell "YOU'RE WRITING CLOP! IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT!"

People thinking gay women are awesome but gay men are disgusting? That's... teenage boys in a nutshell, really. And since teenage boys are the most dominant group on the internet... Well, you can guess the rest.

828451 You're my hero, man. I totally fell out of my chair with laughter.