Well, need some activity in this place. So, which one is your favorite ship?

To make things more interesting, explain why you think that pair would work together better!

The catch: no ragging on the other one!

And no, you can't use the "both" cop-out for this one. Even if I totally would.

I, personally, would say that I think Princess Twilight works better. That's mostly because I think that Sunset would have more common ground with Princess Twi, what with both of them being former students of Princess Celestia, as well as they're both ponies. I just see Sunset connecting better with somepony who understands magic like she does.
I'm curious as to what others think!

At this point, I feel like Sunset is more human than pony, so to speak. The human world seems to be 'her' world now - even if she totally could go back to Equestria, i'm not sure she would stay there anymore.

Sci-Twi is in 'her' world, and they have a much stronger connection to each other (the shared burden of their past choices for example).

Could probably go into more detail, but a) i'm sure others will do it and b) time for me to sleep.

Sci Twi x Sunny is best!

princess cuase she better fit, for sunset both are magic ponys

5913202 Sci Twi exclusively. After they have both been corrupted by magic albeit for different reasons they know what the other has been through and are the only ones who can really support and understand each other. There is also the matter of the fact that Princess Twilight has far to many obligations in Equestria and has no real time to devote to Sunset as a romantic partner.

So it is as much practical as it is emotional.

That's a tough one. Both come with different pros, but if I had to choose, I'm currently leaning Princess.

The main thing that puts Princess over is that she and Sunset feel like equals at this point. Sure she technically became Twilight's student at the end of Rainbow Rocks (though judging by the season 7 premier, she graduated at the same time, though it was kind of weird that they abandoned that subplot and basically completely wrote Princess out of EQG), but throughout the movie, they were both going through similar issues and even had some chemistry. What cemented it though, was the deleted scenes from Friendship Games. That cafe scene where Sunset and Twilight are just talking to each other and Sunset actually unloads some of her problems and is much more relaxed, even if it technically never happened, it's how the interaction would've gone and I can't not take it into account. Oh, and Sunset basically tried to get Flash to give up on a relationship with the Princess, so maybe there's an ulterior motive there ;)?

As for Sci, with her there's the connection of turning into she demons and that she's in the human world. Sure there's the Timber catch, but we'll just ignore that. While the ending to Friendship Games did set them up as kindred spirits, Legend of Everfree set Sunset as the mentor. Until Sci manages to become an equal with Sunset (which Legend of Everfree seemed to end at, though too early to tell), I'd go with Princess. Once she does though, I'd probably go with Sci.

Sc-Twi, definitely. They have the shared trauma of having been corrupted by magic only to then be saved by the power of friendship, for starters. There's also the fact that Sunset seems to be living in the human world permanently; it's where she has so many friends who accept her and where she doesn't have to confront the mentor and life she turned against so dramatically. It makes more sense, at least to me, to pair her with the Twilight who lives in the same world as her - she's the one that's most actively in Sunset's life.

Sci-Twi.

First: while it made sense for Sunset to have a potential crush on Princess Twi, there wasn't much what could justify Princess Twi having a crush/being romantic interested in Sunset. Not to mention Twily (pony Twily) did not spend much time with Sunset on her visits to the human world and their primary way of communicating with one another is the magical book. As a matter of fact, they are a lot more like pen pals actually.

Sci-Twi, however, can actually spend time with Sunset on a daily basis, both are learning friendship together and went through very similar situations. In short: all those things can bring two people to be very close.

Second: every since the ending of Rainbow Rocks the fandom, myself included, have been expeculating Sci-Twi and Sunset to meet each other, become friends and perhaps something more.

Third: the final scenes from Friendship Games and about 80% of Legend of Everfree scenes have those two in very heart warming moments. It isn't the best, but I like it.

Fourth: I already had other shipps for pony!Twilight prior to SunLight. Mind I like SunLight more than those other shipps. Both versions of it. But, since I have to pick one, I choose SciSet. Sci-Twi is cuter... And have the "Mad Scientist" appeal going on for her. I love mad scientists!

Not that Pony Twi isn't a mare of science or isn't crazy. But the role does not fit her as well as it does for Sci-Twi. The glasses help a lot.

Fifth: Both are good. Please don't make us choose one. Ever again!

I love Sci-Twi better she's so Adorkable.

beyond a visit and to put things in the past with princess celestia i cant see sunset returning to equestria

so scitwi by a mile plus sunset has better chemistry with scitwi

I tend to lean towards Sci-Twi with ol' Baconhair. I like the idea of the former villains getting together, even if Sci-Twi wasn't a willing badguy. See my fic A Dazzling Sunset for evidence.

Plus, I like the dynamic of a former pony with questionable familiarity of human cultural mixing with a shut in nerd girl.

4srs. I ship all three of them together not just for both flavors of SunLight, but for the delicious Twicest.

If I had to pick just one, then the time frame would definitely be a major factor. The late night whipped cream fueled lust session between Bacon Hair and Princess Egghead that Maud walked in on was clearly a thing that happened and simply couldn't be shown in order to make the target rating for the movie.

Likewise, Legend of Everfree was one long romantic adventure about how ScienceBacon defeated one of Mother Nature's misguided acolytes. Everyone just seems to have imagined some green-haired heteronormitizing hunk of cardboard dressed up like a person.

In the end, though, I'd have to award a slight edge to Sci-Twi, mainly because that then frees the Princess to be wooed by two-legged Dashie. Then they can have their foursome (also Rarity is invited).

SciTwi, simply due to the greatly increased Adorableness Quotient.

OH BOY! MY FAVORITE THING TO TALK ABOUT!

In all seriousness though, I'm a firm believer that Sci-Twi is about as interesting as a wet towel. I've literally sat and watched Friendship Games and Legends of Everfree several times over just to try and find something I like about Sci-Twi, but I legitimately can't. Between the fact that her introduction was written by Josh Haber, who is a terrible writer when it comes to Twilight, and it shows. I, at some point, plan to "Analyze" the problems with Friendships Games and Sci-Twi in an in-depth video, so I'll keep my reasoning relatively brief.

Sci-Twi's character doesn't feel like Twilight Sparkle yet. Yeah, one could say that's me comparing a character that has had 6 seasons and 2 films (with an upcoming 3rd film) to develop to a character that's only had about 3 hours of total screen time at best is unfair... except I'm not. I'm comparing Twilight from Season 1 to this new rendition of Twilight. My problem with her is that she doesn't even feel like Episode 1 Twilight. Sci-Twi feels like a discount Fluttershy, with an interest in science over animals, and is nowhere near as interesting. She shows a serious lack of backbone, which is not a Twilight Sparkle trait. This is especially apparent when you look at the other Human Versions of the Main 6, whom all feel like their show counterparts, but more... immature, in a way. Sci-Twi doesn't feel like an immature Twilight.

Had they stuck with the deleted scenes version of the Friendship Games plot (where Sunset actually had a character arc, which she lacks for the most part in the final product), but even then, I don't like Sci-Twi as a foil for Sunset, and that's why I feel the Princess Twilight version of this ship works better over all; Pony Twilight and Sunset compliment each other in the way only a "foil" can, and Sci-Twi doesn't have that same feeling of impact. Hell, in the deleted scenes, Pony Twilight comes to visit because Sunset is carrying a bit of personal baggage, and she trusts PRINCESS TWILIGHT with it the most. She could have just had a written correspondence in a scene like that instead, but no, Twilight came to see her instead. (and that was a cute scene, why did they have to cut it?)

What's worse is that Sci-Twi could have been done better. There's this stark contrast between the end of Rainbow Rocks' sneak peak at Sci-Twi being more "Twilight-esc" and the Friendship Games version of her that is just a doormat until she turns... evil... for no reason at all. You know what, I'm going to unpack that for a minute. Why do people think that Sunset turning into a demon and Midnight Sparkle are enough to say that there's a good parallel there? It's a weak parallel, because Sci-Twi has NO real reason to have transformed into Midnight Sparkle. Midnight came out of nowhere, and was a result of... blackmail and peer pressure? At least Demon Sunset HAD a reason for turning into a raging she-demon; Sunset wanted power, she had the motivation of defeating Twilight, taking the crown, and using it's power as an Element of Harmony to take over Equestria. It was a dumb plan, sure, but her transformation had purpose, or at the very least fit with her motivations better than Midnight did with Twilight. Had Friendship Games established that Sci-Twi had Pony Twilight's problem of getting really snippy when confronted with something that doesn't make sense to her (see Feelin' Pinkie Keen for an example), or at least properly foreshadowed Midnight, it wouldn't feel like it was just circumstance, because MIDNIGHT SPARKLE HAD NO SENSE OF PURPOSE FOR BEING THERE. And the reason I feel this way about it? Because Legends of Everfree explored the idea of Sci-Twi having that dark side, and that she's afraid of it, especially now that she knows what it's capable of.

TL;DR: Pony Princess is better than Awkward Nerd in both how she compliments Best Pony, and how she is written as a character. Yeah, this might be like comparing Apples and Oranges, but given that they share the same name, they should at least feel similar, and in my mind, they don't.

I've gone into lengthy detail about this in the past, so I'll pretty much sum up my feelings:

Princess Twilight with Sunset is a more matured, sort of settled relationship between two adults, especially when dealing with long distance at first. It's the kind of relationship you'd like to see grow old together.

Sci-Twi is the 'two teenagers learning to love together' angle which is it's own unique flavor and very different from Princess Twilight. Since Sunset is still a teen in this world, it makes sense that they'd struggle to figure out love together in that awkward teenage way.

I personally prefer Princess Twilight for this reason. I like them both, but I love that more mature day-to-day love of long lived adults over the rapid heated passions of youth that comes with teenage romances.

5913679
The way I found Sci Twi described once was Twilight without protagonist privileges. Seriously, in FiM, Twilight was babysat by a Princess, had huge magical potential, was Celestia's personal student, and had Spike, plus the other ponies her age in Canterlot tried to be friends with her. Sci Twi on the other hand was in an environment where everyone was extremely competitive and closed off, so she herself is much more withdrawn. She didn't have Twilight's Canterlot friends, instead she had people like Fleur being an ass to her. She didn't have Princess Celestia guiding and teaching her, she had Cinch breathing down her neck. She didn't even have an assistant that took care of her and helped her a lot like Princess Twilight had in Spike. Princess Twilight basically had the deck stacked in her favor with her destiny while Sci Twi actually had reasons to not be social.

Also, Midnight wasn't out of nowhere. Sci Twi only cared about studying magic and getting into Everton. Her pendant was obviously harming Sunset's friends, but she didn't really care. Even when it started getting dangerous with the portals, she kept going. Even after someone could've gotten killed in the second event and she obviously had no control, she still held onto it. Then, after everything that happened, Cinch tries to blackmail her, but more importantly, she plays to Twilight's want of knowledge, which is what pushed her over. Even after knowing how dangerous it was and having no clue what would happen, she still released it to sate her own lust for knowledge. The way magic twists desires (Sunset going from not willing to hurt Spike to trying to kill Twilight and Gloriosa going from wanting to protect the camp to entrapping everyone), Midnight being willing to tear apart the world to learn about magic isn't unreasonable at all. I do agree that she does need more character outside of direct plot, though the specials will hopefully remedy that.

Princess.

First, as much as I hate to admit it... she was there first, and I've not yet moved on. I was also able to find a lot of material in "Friendship Games," where Sunset is constantly writing to and thinking about her, and where she is deeply agitated by being cut off from her. Everything Sunset does in that movie can be easily read in terms of having a crush on Princess Twi. Outburst towards SciTwi? Comes from failing to live up to Sunset's idealized image of the princess. It fits.

More importantly, though, I feel Sunset's affection for Princess Twi would be stronger than for SciTwi. Princess Twilight is directly responsible for the direction Sunset's life has taken, and that's not nothing. That's probably my strongest point of interest, and now that Sunset has grown a lot I feel like they've grown closer to each other's stature, whereas SciTwi still feels awkward in both friendship and magic. I try to pretend this movie didn't happen, but Legend of Everfree reads distinctly to me as being entirely platonic between Sunset and SciTwi, and the fact that I really, really do not like SciTwi in that movie doesn't help. She's just not very Twilight-like - but then, that's ragging on the other one, which has been discouraged.

I would like to say that I don't buy the shared experience of becoming a demon thing, though, if only because I dislike Midnight Sparkle a fair bit. Twilight never wanted to hurt anyone, and she seemed unhappy whenever her device acted up, so I have a hard time seeing her as directly responsible for Midnight like Sunset is for her demon form. Legend of Everfree, being the garbage movie it is, never makes it clear whether Midnight Sparkle is real, but I see no way that Twilight's motivations during the Friendship Games translated to her becoming a demon.

And, yeah, I find that shared experience of Equestrian life an interesting point of comparison, and I don't feel Sunset has an equivalent with SciTwi. This doesn't influence my shipping as much, but it does help me take more of an interest in the Princess Twilight/Sunset dynamic. I also feel that the comparison with a more accomplished pony brings out Sunset's insecurities, whereas the comparison with timid, anxious SciTwi buries them, and I find her much more interesting with those insecurities active and some Link to her homeworld intact.

>> Blazeblast4

She's still one of the main leads of the two movies she's in, or at least has something of a character arc in both of them. That analogy is fine, though I have problems with it. One of those analogies is that, thanks to the limited runtime of the films, we haven't seen Sci-Twi's background. The only reason we knew Twilight had friends BEFORE moving to Ponyville, and that they weren't just random people that were in her social circle was Amending Fences clarified it. But the only thing we know about Sci-Twi is that she attended a elite school, where everyone seems to have their head up their own butts. But that's all we know about her "past." We don't have enough information on Sci-Twi to know if she had friends at one point in the past, which kills part of that argument.

Her not having an assistant really doesn't matter, since the only thing Spike really did was take letters (which is outdated), cook/clean (I assume she's still living with her parents, given that she's a highschooler, and I have no reason to believe otherwise. Chances are they cook for her), and offer emotional support (which a dog is perfectly capable of doing, as there are things called emotional support animals). We can tell that her brother being a former student of Crystal Prep made him a bit more snobbish, and that likely played into her personality... but why wasn't Sci-Twi that snobby? She was the smartest girl in the school, and since that plays into Crystal Prep's reputation, it'd be a reason to be a snobby brat. She has literally no real reason to be a Fluttershy version of Twilight.

Let's also take into account that being Celestia's personal student may not have been 100% without it's struggles and expectations, much like going to one of the top schools in the area, and being their smartest student in a while on top of that. Yeah, Celestia was likely easier on her psyche than a snobby school, but given that Pony Twilight also belonged to wealthy family in Canterlot, and has likely bumped elbows with the snobby rich ponies there too. Yet she turned out relatively fine. Sci-Twi doesn't feel like Twilight Sparkle, there's very little in the way that you can say to prove that to not be the case, since the feel of a character is something a professional writer has to take into account. I have very little in the way of doubt that Josh Haber wrote her the way he did in Friendship Games because he's not a very good Twilight Sparkle writer, and writing her differently likely made it easier for him. Legends of Everfree didn't fix this issue much, and Sci-Twi was honestly one of the weaker characters in that movie (although that is more opinion than objective fact.)

In regards to you saying that Midnight didn't come out of nowhere, and that Sci-Twi only cared about studying magic... did you watch the same movie as I did? Because she clearly cares enough about the damage she caused to burst into tears when Sunset screamed at her. Her keeping the locket to examine the energy in a lab fits within the realm of possibility, but I don't really think it'd matter, since there wasn't an established way to safely release the energy. But even still, that alone doesn't make her transformation make sense, given that even the twisting of desires needs some kind of intent behind it, and I'm sorry, but saying that her curiosity caused the human equivalent of the embodiment of the element of magic, and Princess of Friendship Magic (which was contained in the locket thing), was enough to warp her into a power crazed lunatic. That's flimsy, and it holds very little grounding without the context. It didn't feel like there was a proper build to it. Had the version of Sci-Twi we got been closer to the taste we got at the end of Rainbow Rocks (I can only speak for myself, but that little tease gave off a completely different vibe than FG Sci-Twi), or had they characterized her to be somewhat more snobbish, I could see it being a combination of curiosity and selfishness, given that Crystal Prep practically breeds selfishness.

They could have written the scene to be something like... Cinch telling Sci-Twi to give her the locket, to ensure the victory, in exchange for the Everton Application being put through, which would have cemented that Cinch was willing to do whatever it took to win. But instead, they played the blackmail and peer pressure card, and it made Midnight feel like a wasted idea until LoE came along and made it something more than just a transformation. But that is retroactive, and that isn't enough to convince me that Midnight Sparkle was just pointless.

I definitely go with SciTwi. While a part of that is admittedly the shared demonization (in both senses of the word) providing an initial push toward common ground, it's more due to how I see each of the two reacting to their rescue. To my eye, Sunset seems to have a bit of hero-worship toward the princess -- not that she'd admit it, even to herself -- that stems from being welcomed out of her experience by a pony she saw in that moment as perfect, a model to emulate (the best metaphor I can some up with is "a marble statue", but that has different connotations) which leaves the princess untouchable. It's almost the same dynamic as Twilight and Celestia, and the same reason I can never get behind shipping those two either. SciTwi, on the other hand, was physically guided out by something beautiful and pure, and the admiration of knowing that Sunset fell just as far but was still able to regain that purity just solidified that perception into a bit of a crush. To try to give some idea of what I'm talking about, this picture is the closest I could find to illustrating how Sunset sees the princess, while this one is almost exactly what I was imagining Twilight's perception to have been.

5913679 Feel free to say the writing fell short. I'm not going to argue that (though I don't think it was quite as bad as you make it out to be). What you don't give enough credit, however, is that SciTwi is not Princess Twi. None of the Equestria Girls counterparts are the same characters as the ponies we're more familiar with -- I'd say Canterlot Hight's Pinkie is calmer and more restrained, Fluttershy's less shy if a bit quieter, and Rainbow's more team-oriented but less of a jock, for example, and I would argue that that goes beyond them not being as mature -- even if the differences are nowhere near as pronounced as the Twilights'. Saying she doesn't feel like the Princess, even before the latter got wings (and it's scary that pony Twi's now been an alicorn longer than she was a unicorn) is kind of the entire point behind SciTwi's characterization.

Moreover, we've seen SciTwi for a grand total of two movies. Maybe we're beyond comparing her to Season 1 ponies, but we're definitely still in Season 2. More than that, I'd point to Applejack rather than Twilight: a gimmick, some good episodes of focus, but the "background pony" jokes are only just beginning to lose relevance. It just stands out more because five of the other main characters surrounding her got a good head start on their characterization before they even showed up on screen and the sixth had a full two movies to develop, one of which put her practically front and center.

5913970

I'm well aware that she isn't Twilight Sparkle, but that's why I have a problem with it. To elaborate, I'm not saying that she has to be exactly the same as the Twilight Sparkle that I personally like, but she should still feel like Twilight Sparkle, and she doesn't. Sci-Twi fails in a way that the human versions of Rarity, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, Applejack, and Fluttershy succeeded: they still feel like the characters from the show, but without several seasons of development worth of stuff. They also feel like those characters through the lens of a modern, "real" world, which is what the human world is. I realize that this was done to make the first movie less jarring to the viewer, and that these characters can, and in fact, already have shown signs of diverging from their pony counterparts. Sci-Twi, on the other hand, feels like we missed that, and that makes the differences between Sci-Twi and Twilight more jarring. Yeah, she's a product of a different environment, but at the same time, she doesn't really retain anything that made Twilight Sparkle feel like Twilight Sparkle, and that's a problem for me. Especially since she has the freaking wings, and didn't do crap to earn them.

To briefly touch on those points about the other (Re-)Main 5, let's take a look. They live in a different kind of society, which will obviously affect how they act. It's like visiting another country, you're going to see differences in how people act on the general social level. Two different worlds are bound to have different social customs and practices, and different expectations one has to meet to "fit in" with the rest of society. Yet at their cores, I still feel the core characters of the Main 5 are present, yet different due to their environment (and lack of development, since these movies are more about Sunset and or one of the two versions of Sparklebutt). Pinkie still feels like Pinkie, Rarity still feels like Rarity, etc, etc.

You're missing the point of what I'm saying either way. I'm arguing the fact that Sci-Twi feels too different from the pony she shares the name with. You state that the entire point behind her characterization is to distance herself from the Princess, and sure, she should be different, that's a way to keep the two separate in your mind, and that's not entirely bad. What I'm saying is that she has the name "Twilight Sparkle" yet feels nothing like Twilight Sparkle, even from Season 1 or 2, which defeats the whole point of having her be named after a pony princess. The other characters didn't get a head start, at least not in the way you are suggesting. The other 5 were able to convey that "yes, despite the difference in environment, they STILL feel like the same characters we know from the show at their core." Sci-Twi fails in this sense. It's not a matter of development, it's a matter of the core "vibe" you get from the character, and as I've stated many times now, I do not believe, for a second, that Sci-Twi feels like a Twilight Sparkle that grew up in the human world's social environment. She feels like a completely different person, and while some might find that endearing, I find that to be disappointing, as a person who has been working on their own original project for nearly 3 years now, carefully working at making my characters feel distinct through their core traits. Sci-Twi will always feel like a Chinese Knock-off of Twilight Sparkle to me, because it misses that important step in my eyes.

Why I like SunLight, and not SciSet, is because... like SamRose put it, they are the kind of couple you want to see grow old together. To further that point, I felt more in things like Twilight's reluctance to accept Sunset's hand at first to be one of those little moments that carries a lot implicit weight to it for both characters, given their history as enemies prior to this moment. The kitchen scene carries so much meaning to the dual nature of their dilemma: they both don't want to let their friends down, and that presents so much more value to their characterization than Sunset reaching out to Sci-Twi in the "light void." The deleted scene from Friendship Games in the cafe, and how Sunset seemed to be able to decompress, and the comforting hand that follows Sunset showing how unsure she feels about the stuff she was feeling just... and the fact that Sunset implies that she will come and see her in Equestria... god damn it it's cute, okay. One True Thrond also pointed out that Sunset's current life is thanks to the Twilight showing her there was another way, and that when a problem comes up, one of Sunset's first instincts is to reach for the book and talk to Twilight about it. (I was admittedly really bummed that the book wasn't in LoE, but it wouldn't fit the story they were trying to tell, so I can buy it.)

5913932

Despite how I disagree with the notion that LoE is a bad movie (I think it's better than Friendship Games and the first movie), it seems you get my point of Midnight feeling really freaking forced and meaningless at the end of the day.

here is a thing what has princess twilight done for sunset she blasted her with a friendship rainbow then left her in the human world broken it was the rainbooms who built her intot he sunset we know and love today

hell when first returning in rainbow rocks twilight was hesitant to take sunsets hand still not trusting her (a problem she has outside of luna twilight never seems to trust reformed villains)

scitwi on the other hand while not doing anything for sunset either is still actually there for sunset and sunset lets her guard down around scitwi

something alot of people seem to forget about sunset is she is not a person full of pride like she acts rather she seeks others to be proud of her hell her entire motivation in the first film was really a childish attempt to get celestias attention

heck if im being honest i think princess twilight is kinda dangerus to sunsets mental health not for anything princess twilight does but rather it brings all the issues sunset has with her self and her mistakes up in her mind

i for one am with sunset with princess twilight, all the way,
I don't mind scitwi but well I only seen first movie that about it......

5914107 watch the other 3

5914117 I knew I should but I just have had time or any time I do find I end up watch something else on my list

I like both. Both is good. Yay Sunlight! I've been leaning more towards the Sci Twi side of Sunlight, or SciSet, recently but I still like the Princess Twi side. Either way though it's still them so I'm happy.

Sci-Twi...

Why?

Pony Twilight has already a full harem (through I ship pony princess with Celestia, Trixie, ChrySalis, and Moon Dancer)

And Sci-Twi has only 2 ships on my head (Sunset and Sugar Coat)

Yum, this is a fun discussion. But while I do read and enjoy both ships, I have to go with Princess all the way. SamRose put it very nicely, but here's a few more major things I feel like nobody's touched on yet.

At first glance, it's pretty blatant that SciTwi has a crush on Sunset, and Sunset for Princess Twi. But reciprocation? What has SciTwi ever done for Sunset, aside from being adorable and in need of a hug? Sunset, as it turns out, has done a lot for Princess Twi.

Looking at the first movie, Twilight is merely doing her pony thing, expecting friendship to be magic and the world to work like Equestria- which it doesn't, but she gets lucky, flattens the villain, has a happy ending with her new friends and rides off into the sunset (snerk). This is at a point in her life when she's more or less a harmony zealot: she's the recently-graduated student of Celestia, vanquisher of lots of bad dudes, and even just got a spiffy pair of wings to tell her she's on the right track. She knows she's in the right, and never, ever doubts it. Even when she "forgives" Sunset and leaves her in the human world, never expecting to see or have anything to do with her again. Is that right? Well, maybe. But Twilight certainly had no qualms with it.

Enter Rainbow Rocks. A problem has arisen, the H5 plus Sunset are worried, and find a way to ask Twilight, fixer-of-everything for help. Somehow or other, she arrives in person to save the day, and is treated like royalty. "Here, Twilight, come perform in our band even though you don't play anything!" "Here, Twilight, have the center spot on the couch!" The H5 love her, and know she can do anything.

And then they promptly fail... why? Because Twilight isn't their friend, she's their idol. Even Sunset's confidant she can do anything (see: the kitchen scene), even when Twilight was a little less-than-trusting of her when she first returned. Suddenly, Twilight is in a crisis. Her worst nightmare- all of her worst nightmares- are about to be realized at once. She's going to be late with an assignment (well, a song, but same thing). She's going to fail to protect the world from a villain that, honestly, is doing what Discord did but without omnipotence (and she already beat him). Everyone's going to hate her (think she took the reaction to the group's first performance personally? Also, screw you, Flash). And she has nobody she can turn to for help: Celestia isn't there, and the magic of friendship isn't working. Her friends, even while falling messily apart, put her on a massive pedestal of being able to fix anything, completely oblivious to the fact that she can't. She's helpless, trapped and alone, and despite all of her best efforts, failure is rushing to meet her in the face. What would even be worse, at that point? To be blamed for everything- Twilight's terrified of being hated- or to remain on that pedestal in full knowledge that she doesn't deserve it?

...And in the end, it's Sunset who gets it. Sunset who, while dealing with problems of her own that are arguably worse, is the one to realize Twilight is actually a person. Sunset who, after Rainbow Dash sent Twilight to the edge of the room in tears, shouted down the H5, stood up for Twilight, told them what had gone wrong, and gave them the spark they needed to fix their magic and stand a chance. They stood. They fought. They fell anyway. And Twilight Sparkle called for Sunset's help, and Sunset helped her up, and the two of them sang cheek-to-cheek and hand-in-hand to stop the Dazzlings and save the world.

Princess Twilight gave Sunset something to stand for. Sunset Shimmer caught Twilight when the thing they stood for fell, and brought it back to stand even taller. And that's how Equestria was made.

...Some day, I'll tell you the story of why I ship Sunset and Princess Twi!

For real, though, that's far from all of it. People say it's a long-distance relationship? Twilight lives five minutes from Sunset's school. People say Sunset has too much idolization of Twilight after the first movie? Not after Rainbow Rocks. Hasbro doesn't want to include Princess Twi in EqG, and Princess Twi is highly shippable with other Equestrians? The portal's still open, and that's what fanfics are for. No need to not write one ship because others exist too in this medium!

But let's talk about SciTwi for a bit. For clarification before I begin, I do like her, and actually have more SciSet on my Favorites shelf than SunLight (though that sorta speaks more to what this community is inclined to write). I even liked Midnight, which seems to be a minority opinion around here (I'll explain why in a bit). But there are a handful of major hurdles I feel like need to be addressed, so here goes.

Oftentimes, people cite that both Sunset and SciTwi have dealt with the whole "demonic transformation" biz as some common ground between them, and yes, they have. I'll ignore the circumstances leading up to those transformations for a bit, but looking at what happened afterward, that transformation angle is really the only thing similar about them.

When Sunset transformed and started blowing stuff up, she got blown up herself. She wouldn't back down, she was stopped by force. She was offered a chance at redemption, and the one who offered it promptly disappeared. She integrated herself into a new friend group, but those friends consistently excluded her (she's not a part of the Rainbooms), told offensive jokes about her past, and wound up being a bunch of jerks. She took every blow for their failures (Awesome as I Wanna Be), she suffered the ire of the whole school. When everything was coming down around her at the end of Rainbow Rocks, Sunset not only had to get up on her own to save the world, she had to drag all of her friends up with her. And, again, she did it on her own.

When Twilight did the same, she was talked down. She was asked to stop, and was able to do so. And when she did, she was immediately accepted into a group of actually supportive friends, in a school more than used to magical phenomenons that had seen way worse than her before. The person who saved her was right there with her, every day. Where Sunset had nothing, SciTwi had everything it was possible to have. In Legend of Everfree, when she was forced to face her past (which wasn't all that bad), she did so with all her friends at her side, encouraging her and egging her on. Compare that to Sunset doing so voluntarily in RR by putting herself in front of an auditorium filled with people who hated her guts, just to cover up for Rainbow's screwup? Twilight faced far less, by force, and had to do far less to get past it with far more help. Sunset faced the consequences of her actions alone, by choice, and didn't even do more with it than prevent the status quo from getting worse.

The point here is that even though their backstories share a similar supernatural element, they went in completely opposite directions. Sunset's maturity and strength of character as a result of her experiences dwarfs SciTwi's by unimaginable proportions. For a real-world analogy, imagine going to college: on one side, you have an underprivileged minority student working two jobs who fights their way through and everyone expects to fail, and on the other you have a wealthy kid who's barely scooted through most real problems with natural smarts or a good support system. Sure, they both went to college, but they couldn't be more different.

...Do they know that? Well, I strongly doubt SciTwi considers them equals. Sure, she's heard stories about Demon Sunset, no doubt, but the worst thing she's ever seen Sunset do in person is yell at her (for something that really was her fault, and she knows it). For someone plagued by self-doubt, that's such a high, high mental pedestal to look up to. Sunset looking at SciTwi, she can definitely empathize with what she went through, and she definitely doesn't want to leave her alone and unsupported, but would Sunset ever really, truly consider SciTwi on level with her? A relationship is a two-way street, and there's a massive gap in what they've been through and what they know of each other.

There's another thing, though, and that's the issue of Princess Twilight being first. Romantic attraction or not, she made a colossal impact on Sunset's life. Sunset will probably never forget her for the rest of her life. So... could she ever honestly have a relationship with someone who looks exactly like her- has the same name, even- yet has no understanding of that past and is emotionally many years younger? She could sure try, but that, to me, is not a foundation for a healthy relationship. At all.

Speaking of emotional age, there's also the fact that Sunset is probably just a whole lot older than SciTwi. Yes, time is wonky between the two worlds, but in Equestria, do you really expect teenagers to be doing grad work, founding empires of physical retailers, or joining professional sports teams? And Sunset's even older than that. Yes, this is a bit of a funky argument when we have no idea how that mirror works (my favorite theory is that it adjusts your body to that of your alternate-world counterpart- hence why SciTwi has wings even doing nothing to earn them), but I have to bring it up because it also feels weird.

Did I forget anything...? Probably, but I've been at this long enough already. Time to talk about Midnight and the difference between the Twilights before I wrap this up. Hokay!

As I see it, the foremost link- and difference- between them growing up is the issue of validation. Both Twilights are exceptionally smart and talented, we know that. Princess Twilight's talent was discovered at a young age, and she was given the best of the best. She was told she could excel, she knew she could excel. Everything she did prior to coming to Ponyville was in the name of reaching the goals she had for herself, and impressing Princess Celestia. Celestia was proud of her, and she wanted to live up to that. She still does, though especially before her ascension. She is great, she's been told she's great, and she's shaped by that. No matter what, she doesn't want to let her mentor down.

SciTwi hasn't had that. Presumably, her talent was recognized and courted young, what with her being in Crystal Prep. But where Princess Twilight was closely governed on the road to greatness- allowed to make her own way and take her knocks, learn her lessons, but ultimately be kept on the right path- SciTwi had none of that. She was free to make her own road to the potential others told her she had, but it was her own road- there was nothing keeping her there, setting her straight when she blundered. When she isolated herself, there was nothing to bring her back out. And while Princess Twilight had access to the best, was the best and was told she was the best... SciTwi had access to the best, was the best and was surrounded by those who were jealous of it.

I'm not saying Princess Twi's was objectively the right way of going about things, mind you. See my talk earlier about how badly she messed up for that, or look to the early seasons when she's incredibly clueless in her righteousness (such as after Discord's maze, when she learns the Elements weren't there in the first place). But this was the difference, and I completely see how it could have resulted in the Twilights being where they are. Princess Twilight was sheltered, carefully cultured, soft and in need of trust and magic to get her through the real world- but ultimately innocent and unjaded. SciTwi has fewer illusions about what a mean place the world is (and EqG world is already several shades darker than Equestria). She's darker, leaner, tougher for it... and less tender. More defensive. Withdrawn. She was left to fend for herself, and the answers she found worked... even if they may not have led her the best way.

That's where Midnight comes in. SciTwi visibly has Princess Twilight's innocent curiosity, and it's what leads her on with her pendant and magic studies, but where Princess Twi's is bolstered by idealism and the knowledge that her friends have her back, SciTwi's is tempered by mistrust of the world and knowledge that she has to handle whatever she gets into on her own. She wants to do what she wants, and knows she can't get away with it because the world won't let her. Take, for example, all the times she tries to wander away in FG and gets dragged back somewhere by Cadence or Cinch.

SciTwi doesn't like the world. She doesn't trust it, and wishes it would leave her alone in her quest for betterment. In fact, this is somewhat of a self-reinforcing loop: the more she understands the world, the better she can deal with it and the more she's able to understand. Throughout FG, this worldview does battle with her scientific observations of countless things she can't understand, things she realizes she enjoys (having the H5 talk to and help her, etc), and that just reinforces her desire to understand- but at the same time, she's held back by the world she knows and distrusts. So when she finally gets the power to do whatever she wants with impunity, and basically ignore everything she doesn't care about? We've seen time and time again in EqG how massive, misused Element magic amplifies, flanderizes, and transforms. It's hardly a surprise that SciTwi, caught between her infatuation with the unknown and her apathy for the familiar, became what she became.

So yeah. I liked Midnight and I liked Unleash the Magic. This is consistent with what happens in LoE, by the way; Twilight is firmly loving and learning about a world she never knew existed- the world of friendship- and Midnight there represents her old view of things, that the world isn't safe and she should use her skills to protect herself from everything in search of more knowledge.

...

End rant. Have a nice day!

Speaking of emotional age, there's also the fact that Sunset is probably just a whole lot older than SciTwi.

I'm not sure if that is a argument against Sci-Twi, but... we can also suggest that Sunset is even older than Pony Princess?...

And in my mind, I just find the fact Sunset is a bit older than Sci-Twi more interesting and makes me ship them even harder (almost like PP + Celestia)

And... yes Sci-Twi has her difference, but that's what makes her more interesting

5914625 The thing is, Midnight appeared after Twilight had been shown a better way, and after she has expressed concern over the negative impact of her actions. When Sunset turned into a demon, she didn't change much, really. She was still self-centred, she was still malicious to anyone who got in her way, et cetera. Friendship Games tries to form that continuity with Twilight, but "I want to learn everything" wouldn't be a believable motivation for what she did in the Midnight form unless we already saw her to be a misanthrope or a sociopath, which we quite clearly have not. She was too concerned by how she hurt others, and she was too receptive to the friendship offered by the CHS students. Midnight Sparkle's actions are too wildly different from anything I can imagine SciTwi wanting to do that I'm forced to imagine that the magic has messed with her mind in some way, completely removing any responsibility on her part. Even if it weren't, I can't help but consider it the least interesting potential path for her to take. She was chewed out earlier for how much danger she caused, she's been shown friendship by the CHS students, and she's treated by crap by everyone from Crystal Prep... considering all of that, I can see why she might still be driven to unleash the magic, as it were, but to just carelessly explore it without a thought to how she might hurt others feels nothing like something the character we became acquainted would do. She's not lashing out at the Crystal Prep folks? Better yet, she's not holding the magic and telling Cinch to shove off? There are so many complicated influences on her decisions, and the way Midnight Sparkle turned out to me almost seems to ignore them entirely. To me, it feels like they put in a cool climax with flashy imagery just because, no matter how well it fit the story, and I feel pandered to.

5914802 Yeah, she probably is. But not by as large a margin. And Princess Twi acts a lot older than SciTwi.

Interestingly enough, that age gap is my primary beef with Twilestia. Two adults of different ages? No problem. A teenager and an adult in a teenager's body? Ehh. Same goes to an adult and an immortal who's over two thousand years old. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

5915020 There was nothing careless about what SciTwi did at the finale. Carelessness implies a poor decision in response to not enough pressure, what she made was an extreme choice in the face of enormous pressure. Yes, she had been shown a better way, but she hadn't yet reconciled it with her own worldview. She was still in the middle of that, and being forced very abruptly to pick a side...

In real life, a lot of times when people have to make a weighty decision between two diametrically opposed sides, they'll be all the more ardent in what they choose as a means of escaping the pressure (and forcing down regrets). In the middle is a horrible place to be in a scenario like that, and SciTwi folded in the wrong direction at precisely the wrong time.

Hang onto the magic? Tell Cinch no? Sure, those are definitely the "right" answers, but SciTwi is someone who wants to fight the world and knows she'll lose, so doesn't. She's seen that there's another way, sure, but she doesn't know how it works, doesn't trust it, doesn't know that it applies to her. I mean, Sunset did just run her off before that scene.

Yes, those magic transformations definitely are brain-boggling (except maybe Sunset's in FG), but it's not a straight-up "makes you evil." It's an amplification of whatever you want most, and a minimization of everything else. Notice how she forgets about Spike for a minute? If you want to get metaphorical, it's a use of visuals and magic to represent which way she went, the singlemindedness of her pursuit of her decision, and, ultimately, that her mind was able to be changed when Sunset offered her something worth changing for. Everything she had seen before applied to other people, and she was on the outside, looking in and feeling the wake as it passed by. With Sunset, that hand was meant for her.

Of course, it's also there for the special effects. Wouldn't be EqG without 'em. But SciTwi, at least, I find well-built up for the role.

5915060 I understand why she made some of the choices she did; I even understand why she might still open the magic device. I like the idea of her making the "right" choice mainly because it feels to me like a more satisfying conclusion to her character arc than the undercooked "LEARN ALL THE MAGIC" nonsense, but since she did release it all, I could still understand it. She was in a lot of pressure and her future was on the line. But proceeding from there to just blast holes in things left and right, all in the name of "learning about magic"? Perhaps that is vaguely relevant to her motivations, but it has very little to do with her character arc. She's curious about magic at the start, and she's curious about magic at the end. She doesn't want to hurt people at the start, and she doesn't want to hurt people at the end. She doesn't even have any responsibility for anything done has Midnight Sparkle: The magic clearly messes with her mind somehow, and she's under severe pressure as well as blackmail when she opens the device. She does not want to become Midnight Sparkle, and cries for help while it's happening. Even Luna willingly gave in to whatever the "Nightmare" is, but Twilight was effectively coerced into it. So it's hard to tell what Sunset's even providing an alternative to. Is she provoking Twilight to fight the magic? That's not really how it's presented. Sunset is presented as convincing her to accept friendship, but what she's actually doing is trying to stop Twilight from literally destroying the world because she wants to... understand magic, I guess? It's relevant to her discovery that friendship is what she wanted, but what I can't get over is simply that Twilight barely had any agency in anything involving Midnight Sparkle, and so I have trouble seeing it as relevant to her character arc. You seem to be suggesting that "magic" in this instance is a metaphor for "friendship," which sort of makes sense, but I'm not sure the way she reacts to friendship earlier in the movie is really "curiosity" as much as "surprise." She didn't realize that people who are ostensibly her rivals could be so nice to her, and it makes her question the world she came from; Midnight Sparkle has nothing to do with that. The climax also perhaps the most tonally serious part of the movie, which doesn't help.

Anyway, off topic. I agree with this: 5914625

There's another thing, though, and that's the issue of Princess Twilight being first. Romantic attraction or not, she made a colossal impact on Sunset's life. Sunset will probably never forget her for the rest of her life. So... could she ever honestly have a relationship with someone who looks exactly like her- has the same name, even- yet has no understanding of that past and is emotionally many years younger? She could sure try, but that, to me, is not a foundation for a healthy relationship. At all.

There's no way Sunset will be able to look at SciTwi without thinking of someone else, and particularly given that I like to imagine Sunset has a crush on the princess, that makes Sciset particularly difficult for me to appreciate. It's not the same, and it'll never be the same (and SciTwi barely acting anything like Twilight doesn't help, but I digress), so I imagine that will cause huge problems for her.

God I wish there were more Princess Twi x Sunset ships. Seeing a new SunLight story just to realize it's SciTwi is always disappointing.

5913202

Sci-Twi because buns are sexy.

5915121 Eh, fair enough. I still see it as literary hyperbole for how far she's capable of bending under pressure, but yeah, this probably is better elsewhere.

Princess Twi is indeed underwritten, and all the highest-quality ones are for SciTwi to boot. Sometimes I wonder if part of the reason SciTwi seems to be more popular is that there just isn't a ship-defining One Fic out there for the Princess. To be fair, hers is a lot harder to write since the foundation of their relationship is in stability, which excludes a lot of dramatic plotlines... But still.

Good thing I like rooting for underdogs.

5915285 what stability princess twilight barely knows sunset and one miss step from sunset would have princess twilight turn on her as she has shown constantly she has massive trust issues with any one with a troubled past

5915285 I don't like SciSet that much so I often feel left out. I've had "Fractured Sunlight" sitting in my read-later folder for months now and have had zero desire to actually pick it up. Really leads me to wish there were more big, good fics to my preference. A lot of the multi-chapters I do find have big, epic concepts, but surely there's something more intimate which can be done with those two. At least give me more fluff.

5915307 Twilight seems to be better with Sunset than with Discord, much like she is with Luna and (for whatever reason) Starlight. There's a certain relationship there; unlike Discord or Trixie, Sunset doesn't continue to actively antagonise Twilight and friends, and I think Twilight has even warmed to Discord and Trixie at least a little, so someone she's actively cooperated with to save the world seems easier for her to understand.

5915344 hey, Fractured SunLight is a very good fimfic, if you prefer PP x Sunset, ok, that's a different topic.

Are you mad cuz the good fimfics are Sci-Sunset? then try to write your own...

5915307 That might have been the case before or at the start of Rainbow Rocks, but by the ending Twilight very much has no doubt that Sunset means it that she's turned around. And she's not suspicious of anyone with a troubled past- do you see her hounding Luna?- she's suspicious of Starlight, Discord and Trixie because they're constantly still up to no good. Sunset isn't a chronic troll or troublemaker, she doesn't do that sort of stuff. Furthermore, how do you know how well they've gotten to know eachother offscreen? Sunset has that journal she's constantly writing in, FG deleted scenes give us a wonderful bit where she comes to the EqG world for drinks just because Sunset wants to talk. It's absolutely explorable in the realm of fanfiction (and expectable in canon, if Princess Twi ever comes back) that they wouldn't be strangers.

5915344 Well, at least we've got this wonderful new group with its proper folders. At long last, the two Twilights can stop being lumped together like they're the same person.

5915375 Maybe keep "you mad" and the like out of this, please? The first post made it abundantly clear that this isn't the place to antagonize the side you disagree with.

5915375

then try to write your own

Working on it.

5913202

And no, you can't use the "both" cop-out for this one.

Too bad. Both. But more time with SciTwi, because she's actually around Sunset more of the time. Geographical convenience is a huge factor.

5915412 you mean like when she trusted discord at the end of season 4 then in season 5 thought he brain washed the others

or how she claimed to trust starlight but didnt as soon as trixie showed up another pony she forgave but then refused to trust adn almost drove trixie to suicide

as soon as any one with a troubled past does something she does not like she turns on them

heck as i said before princess twilight really has not done anything for sunset she blasted her with a friendship rainbow then ditched her in the human world never planning to see her again and in rainbow rocks she ignored all of the problems sunset was facing sunset had to step up her self its the rainbooms who helped sunset become the person we know and love

5914001
This really helped me see where you're coming from. Thanks! And sorry for seeming a bit short with you; I lost my original post and didn't put the same effort into the rewrite.

I'll agree they really shouldn't have given SciTwi wings. Midnight Sparkle, sure -- Sunset shows that even unicorn demons have them -- but I'm chalking up her having them when just ponying up normally to the writers either not putting enough thought into what those imply or not wanting to confuse the target audience (and, while I don't know how true it is, potentially a side helping of Hasbro not differentiating the toy characters like the movies do). As for the rest of your interpretation, I can't say I share it. I certainly see why you feel that way about her, but I see her drive for knowledge just as strongly as in the Princess, along with her penchant for having what seems to be a good plan thought out while having trouble fixing it on the fly when things go a way she never came anywhere near considering. Growing up under Cinch's influence rather than Celestia's obscures that, but I do say their personalities are roughly the same underneath it all.

The biggest difference is in what motivates the two, and once you peel away their histories, that winds up looking a lot more similar. Let me go the other way first and explore the implications: the Princess sets (somewhat unrealistic) goals for herself and is afraid that she'll fail everyone relying on her by not meeting them. She's obsessive partially because perfect knowledge, perfect order, perfect focus, etc. is the only way she can be sure she won't fall short in her own mind, and when she starts slipping, that just makes her try to cling to that ideal even harder. SciTwi knows that failing to meet everyone's expectations will disappoint them, and that seeing that look in their eyes hurts her deeply. She tries to be innocuous because she doesn't have the same confidence in her own abilities and doesn't want to promise anything she's not sure she can accomplish.

Enough flailing wildly. As much as the Princess is afraid of what Celestia would do to her if she ever failed, I really don't think that's based on anything that actually happened. We've never seen anypony other than foals in the Ponyville schools; Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns would presumably continue a bit beyond that, but we can assume that Celestia took Twilight more directly under her wing not too long after the scenes of young Twi and Moondancer. In all her lessons, I can't see Celestia being anything but "gentle, patient mentor guiding her student" and with a strong focus on letting that student connect the dots herself. On the other hand, everything we've seen in Canterlot High matches much more closely with American public schools, and there's no reason Crystal Prep would be very different. Individualized teaching isn't a thing. Letting students discover the material and its implications themselves takes a back seat to dictation. The teaching progresses at an inexorable pace and along a proscribed route, and failures to match either will be very visible on the next test. And unlike Canterlot High, Crystal Prep is painted as anything but warm and forgiving.

Both Twilights are afraid of failure, but for different reasons. The Princess has raised it to boogy-mare status because Celestia was deft enough at guiding her away from it that Twilight didn't notice her hoof, so Twi was able to develop a remarkable competency without ever truly experincing falling short. At the same time, she knows she could figure out the knowledge herself, and that was generalized to being confident in her ability to get things done -- which occasionally runs headlong into her near-impossible goals. SciTwi always had the spectre of failure looming directly over her courtesy of grades, and much less experience in figuring things out on her own (I see her as having started her independent study two or three years before normal graduation after exausting the totality of what Crystal Prep teaches, which was maybe a year before Friendship Games). Moreover, a good number, though definitely not all, of her authority figures wouldn't be described as supportive and I can easily see Cinch or someone like her saying "I would have expected a girl of your talents to have known this by now."

Ultimately, whether someone thinks SciTwi was a good depiction probably comes down to how easily they see that difference leading to trying to stay in the background to avoid disappointing anyone. I think it follows; I think SciTwi is a good look at just how important Celestia was for the Princess. You don't, and you think that SciTwi is mangling what it means to be "Twilight". That's fine too.

5915285
5915344
Have y'all read Finding Home? Been a while so I don't quite remember what all happens in it, but it's definitely substantial and is really sweet with the Sunset/Princess Twi interactions. It does get around the stability-excluding-drama thing by having Fluttershy be the third in a triad rather than just the two of them, but if you don't mind the polyamory making it not purely Sunlight (and the three of them are remarkably cute together), I found it a really nice read.

5915472 Character development. It exists.

Twilight doesn't "turn on" her friends, she tries to set them back in line when they're being (or she perceives them as being) bad. Turning on them would be bringing out the Elements or the Rainbow Power, kicking them to the moon and never speaking to them again. She'd do the same for any of her friends if they were being naughty, be they reformed villain or no. Sunset, however, generally doesn't do villainous things anymore.

And I'm pretty sure if you asked Sunset, she wouldn't say Princess Twilight did nothing. True, her actions in EqG1 aren't paragonal when looked at in a vacuum, but from Sunset's point of view, they sure are good.

Also, if you're going to blame Princess Twilight for not helping Sunset in RR, the Rainbooms were infinitely worse. Twilight at least tried, and she had a good excuse.

5915487 yes and sunset suffers a cocktail of emotional and mental issues a big part of her arc in the 3rd movie thoe was not relying on princess twilight

and yes twilight thinks she is doing good but it dont change the fact she has big trust issues which is not a good thing for a relationship

princess twilight is not good at forgivness she has learned this lesson several times but it is one of the few lessons in the series that dont stick even now she still dont trust trixie and princess twilight and her friends started the feud with her by being hecklers at her show

as i said she almost drove trixie to kill her self all do to her wanting to be lord and master over who can be friends with who

as i said all princess twilight ever did for sunset was blast her with a friendship rainbow that is it she did nothing for sunset in rainbow rocks hell it was sunset who solved the problem the rainbooms they are the ones who showed her what friendship is not princess twilight

notice sunset did not even think of the princess in legend of ever free why because its the rainbooms who are her friends and family

5915506 I think we might be going in circles here. Princess Twilight doesn't have trust issues, she just has a lot of really untrustworthy friends. She'd have to be an idiot not to be wary of them. But she's not mistrusting of her friends who don't constantly do shady stuff.

You don't have to rely on someone to fix all your problems to be their friend.

as i said all princess twilight ever did for sunset was blast her with a friendship rainbow that is it she did nothing for sunset in rainbow rocks hell it was sunset who solved the problem the rainbooms they are the ones who showed her what friendship is not princess twilight

You just repeated yourself without even acknowledging what I said. It might look that way in a vacuum, but that's not how Sunset sees it. And the Rainbooms were massive jerks in Rainbow Rocks. They were part of the problem, not the solution. What did they do in RR to be good, stable friends?

Yes, Princess Twilight isn't in LoE... because the whole point of that vacation was to get away from crazy magic stuff. What reason would she have to be there? They're miles away, it's not like Sunset could call her up and ask her over.

5915629 part of trust is trusting them but she dont trust discord or trixie in the slightest and trixie never did anything to bad in her first appearance twilights friends started the fight and in her 2nd she was possessed by a evil amulet so she cant be held accountable for that

as for discord a big part of the season 4 final was about truely becoming friends with him yet she had to think discord brainwashed her friends could not trust him at all

forgiveness is something princess twilight is bad at

5915486 Times like this really make me wish I was less picky regarding shipfics.

5915506 I maintain that Twilight's relationship with Sunset is a different scenario from Trixie or Discord, and that her trust issues likely don't apply here. They got that over with in "Rainbow Rocks," and Sunset really hasn't messed up on the same scale as, say, Starlight and likely won't. Furthermore, I find the claim that Trixie nearly committed suicide to be... dubious. I doubt she wanted to die at any point.

And I find it hard to believe that Sunset considers literally changing her life to be nothing. As for Legend of Everfree... Yeah, I'll accept that point once these movies present an acceptable substitute. Until then, I'm just ignoring that and saying that SunLight is happening offscreen. No clue why they never mentioned the princess in that movie. The Rainbooms have certainly become perhaps the most important people in Sunset's life, at least for now (wait til she gets to university), but I see no reason that she couldn't be maintaining her friendship with the princess, even if they just write to each other.

5915644 its different as as far as we see the 2 barely talk put them together more and princess twilight will do what she does with the others have her under a microscope looking for mistakes

sunsets character arc has been about not relying on princess twilight it was sunset who solved the problems in the last 3 movies with less and less of princess twilight

as for university they girls will go to the same collage together (likely canterlot U)

I shouldn't be surprised about the amount of conversation this has generated.... but I am.

5913202
Princess Twilight. The reason for this is...

History.

Sunset Shimmer is very obviously meant to be a Twilight mirror; the use of an actual mirror separating them in EQG1 is oddly (possibly intentionally) appropriate. One thing that the EQG movies really gloss over is the impact that Princess Celestia had to have had on Sunset's development. Sunset and Twilight were both protégés of Princess Celestia, and the main difference between them is their personalities, and how they reacted to their similar backgrounds.

There is also the dynamic of Sunset being a former enemy-turned-ally, and the hints of her mild obsession over Twilight (or whatever pony in her mind that happened to occupy Twilight's position) that she demonstrated in their first confrontation in the CHS hallway back in EQG1. Note how insecure Sunset comes across in the way she insists that Twilight is merely "the best that Celestia could replace her with". I love the "falling in love with your enemy" story, and frankly it saddens me that this doesn't appear more often in media.

Another element is that, in a good teen romance, there is always the suitor, and the crush. And in general, the suitor (the chaser) has to either be less confident or be of lower status, otherwise the tension likely gets resolved immediately (If the suitor is more confident or has higher status, there's nothing stopping them from just asking the crush out right away). When it comes to Sunlight, this dynamic is not the same for the two Twilights, because they are fundamentally different people. It is so much easier to see SciTwi as the suitor (chasing the Sunset who saved her and helps her against Midnight Sparkle) whereas PriTwi is the crush (being the one who saved and redeemed Sunset, not to mention being an alicorn and royalty). So it depends on which position, as a Sunlight fan, you prefer to see each half of the pair occupy. I personally like Sunset as the suitor.

It is these elements that give the PriTwi/Sunset ship so much of that extra yummy flavor. Not that the SciTwi/Sunset ship doesn't have its own delicious goodness that I love entirely separately, but you specifically forbade us, for the purposes of this discussion, from picking "both".