To Perytonia: Four chapters in and counting · 3:14am Sep 6th, 2017
This post contains no spoilers, but on the other side, it contains no substance, either.
That's a fancy way of saying "whining incoming"!
So, To Perytonia didn’t feature. Or, if it featured, it was too brief for me to see. At the time of writing this blog post, it has received only a small fraction of the attention most of my stories get, eclipsed even by where my other adventure stories were at this progress level.
Don’t misunderstand: I do not feel that I am owed anything. This is not a complaint, and certainly not to you, reader, reader-to-be, or person who peeked at the story and decided to give it a miss so far.
Fact is, I’ve worked on this story for nine months. Since the beginning of last December, To Perytonia has been my primary, secondary and tertiary hobbies and interests all in one. For this period, the story was my life, essentially. A force that kept me moving. The reason I rolled out of bed. Some days, I literally wrote or edited from morning ‘till bedtime, allowing only for short breaks for food and hygiene.
With this in mind, there is no way this story’s reception could live up to my expectations. This has been true for literally every story I have ever written, a fact remarkable mostly in that it helps absolutely none. It's simply the most extreme example of the effect so far.
I could use a number of angles to give voice to my disappointment. I have a two-page rant about disappointments from failing to meet standards set by precedent. It's basically a scream in a paper bag that I’m going to throw away, and there are many others like it still unwritten. Rants about my own character flaws, about thumbs, stars and other rating systems and feature boxes wondering if anyone who ever did something creative actually likes them, thoughts and questions about why this story has not gone over better than it has.
I have a lot of those. The ones about "why". I have answers for that one, not just questions. To Perytonia is a niche within a niche, a long-form unfinished S2 story. Who wants that? Am I allowed to complain when I knew what I was writing all along? I keep saying I write for me first, you second. I can't do that and also whine about results.
At least, I shouldn't whine. It's all so terribly logical. It's just... I never was very logical. What I do know, though, is that none of those rants would make for good reading unless you care for dramatics, and I don’t care for dramatics, despite what this blog may suggest.
If you have enjoyed To Perytonia so far, then I am glad, I truly am. Updates will continue as scheduled of course. I'm just thinking through writing, as I always do, and in this moment, that writing is a blog post. I hope that if you've read the story thus far—and if you read this blog post—that my whining does not harm your enjoyment of the story.
I am well aware that I won’t draw in new readers with histrionics, which is why I hope to post some story-related art sometime soon. Some more chipper blog posts, perhaps. That requires a compatible mood, though, and this very moment, having to log in to submit new chapters is about all I can manage. The last bit of the final epilogues remains unwritten, and I'm toying with another story, but the words won't cooperate these days, and without words, I have nothing.
You were gone so long...
And the user base of this site is so fickle...
~Skeeter The Lurker
Sadly, one-shots are even more popular now compared to multi-chapter stories than before.
Those of us who do long for those epic stories are thrilled that this story is out.
You're a wonderful writer, so I believe this will be another great story from you.
I have a habit of not reading any story until it's complete so once you have finished it will go near the top of the read later list.
I just... I'm sorry. I've been watching the number myself, with increasing dismay. The work you put into this...
I mean, with where the fandom's at right now, it likely never could have exceeded your prior fics... but yeah, it sucks. Particularly when you look at what does make it to the feature box...
That said, the fic itself is indeed quite good, and deserves far more than the attention it has received. But... I have no words to make you feel better. I wish I did.
...
I'm not helping. I hate not helping.
Perhaps we can still hope that, like the story, the fanbase for this one may grow like a slow burn as well?
Well for what it's worth (and I'm sure it ain't worth a hill of beans), I'm really enjoying the story far.
It was almost exactly four years between concluding Taken for Granite and the first chapter of To Perytonia, I guess a lot of your followers may have drifted off or changed tastes in that period. So you're sort of starting over in some regards. Maybe look around for some of the "signal boost" groups and forums that new authors sometimes use? Getting a review in a prominent place might draw some eyeballs.
Not super familiar with them myself, unfortunately, so I can't recommend any place in particular.
I'm following, but haven't started it yet. But it is definitely on my read-when-finished list.
4659834
And less active than it once was.
All I can do is say that I love your story so far. It reminds me very strongly of Sofia Samatar's A Stranger in Olondria, which I fell in love because of its rich, textured world and tremendous ability to make me feel the depth and breadth of the world without needing to show it all. I will keep gobbling up new chapters as soon as they appear!
There is always the refeature. By way of example, my main story never had the proper feature. When it first came out it had maybe 1000 views, and I garnered 117 up 3 down from being in the popular stories. But shortly after that, the refeature came out, and I enjoyed upwards of 8 hours of a feature every time I put out a new chapter. I had 72 chapters do this, and while not every chapter rode the box for 8 hours, most did.
Now, the competition is more fierce for refeatures these days, but it you carefully plan out when to release your new chapters (try to pick a time with high readership, when no hugely popular stories are updating), you'll land in the box for a bit, and often get back into popular stories for a while as well because your story is somewhat new.
Just saying, you can build readership in time.
I honesty just put it on my read later list and forgot about it.
I spend less time in here than I use to and it's easy to get sucked into a new game and/or audio book now that I have more disposable income. I do need something interesting to read before bed so I'm glad I saw this blog post.
4659844
This, but for some of us there is a reason.
For me its because i have been burned so much, i simply wait for a story to finish before i even start it nowdays. And oneshots being oneshots they ate done when released so yeah, can be read right away.
I'd hold out hope for refeatures, like 4659976 said; I would think you could build yourself up a nice little following over the next six(?) months as you post weekly.
Have you submitted to EqD? They're laggy but they can still get eyes on your fic. Edit: Oh, and the kids these days seem to be all about FIMFic groups? Have you added it to any group it fits with?
Otherwise, I sort of worry that there's less demand for rambling epics now than there was back in our day, when there was only a season or two of content and everyone was hungry for more. As the fandom has matured -- I turned 30 this year
-- I think people have less time for pony, which means in the choice between a 10k word one-shot and a quarter-million-word adventure, the one-shot's gonna win out more often.
Semi-related, can I ask for a ballpark of your overall word count? For... reasons.
Personally, To Perytonia is on my "Read Later" list simply because I have been disappointed far too many times with stories that never complete. I like you as an author. read your blogs, and am tracking your story.
I imagine I am not the only one like this- I suspect that as soon as your last chapter is published you will see a spike on your viewership and ratings graph.
Honestly, it is exactly the "old rambling epics" of yore, which some older members are saying "younguns" aren't interested in, that have caused this to become more common- It isn't that people don't have an interest, it's just that back in the day, everyone started reading every epic story as soon as it came out, and then we all got burned as they cancelled one by one. We've become more cautious, or, at least some of us.
Give your story time, know you won't hit max viewership until the whole story is posted, and add your story to every applicable group.
Your future reader,
SerenityRising
I saw the story in the feature box myself, if clearing up that uncertainty helps. It wasn't high up the list or there long, but it did get featured.
Sorry it's not getting more attention, though. I'll see if I can do a little signal boosting on another site, and in the meantime, know that Fluttershy is quietly cheering To Perytonia on:
*Says nothing but hugs gently*
At least you have produced completed novel-length fics for your troubles, have a reputation for quality, and have a pretty decent following (as far as I can tell at a glance).
It could be worse. It could be a hell of a lot worse.
Trust me, those two phrases can put it all into perspective. They're not reassuring exactly; logically, it could always be better too. But frankly, a lot of users would kill to get the warm and appreciative reception you've earned so far.
I personally salute you for your productivity and commitment. Nine months over one fic winning over this many hearts is nothing to sneeze at.
This story earned you a follow - I wasn't following people when I was reading your work the first time, and this story made me remember how much I liked your stories, so now you get a follow! Thank you for posting a new story!
I did see it crop up in the Popular Stories bar earlier today, presumably due to folk clocking in after the most recent chapter. That'd seem to make what other folk have said here hold water - that so long as you keep the chapters coming out nice and regularly (not a problem) to the same high quality (definitely not a problem
), it'll keep on getting more wee boosts of exposure, more readers/followers, and with any luck, a very respectable view count before all's said and done. There's reasons to be cheerful. I'm sure it'll get the feedback and attention it deserves before the end of things.
I haven't started reading it yet because it has only just started posting and there's only a few chapters. I'll probably start in on it in a month or two, when there's a substantial chunk to read. Given how emotionally charged some of your past epics were, cliffhangers are probably going to be a thing, the kind that might not feel good to have to wait and fret what is going to happen. Apart from that, I find I don't retain the details of a story so well if there's a bunch of time between each chapter, in which I read other stuff. Larger chunks work better for me.
If there are others who feel like me, who visit the blog posts, but don't then immediately begin to read the story, that may account for some of the lower-than-expected attention.
I looked over your numbers and, as far as I can see, you came within spitting distance of the heat it takes to get in the box these days. It's entirely possibly if you had altered your posting time, done proper marketing, or just gotten less stiff competition, you could have hit the box and kept going. I know "Well, you almost got it" isn't exactly comforting. It's rare for a story to recover from missing the box, especially these days when EQD is a dubious eyeball magnet at best. I've had fics bounce back and be successful even after missing the box, but only through sustained features from multiple sources.
As for your numbers being disappointing to you... truth be told, it's fairly uncommon for fics to get the big bucks like they used to. Back in the olden days, if you exited the box with 400 upvotes you did adequate. Now I've had fics bounce in and bounce out with only 80. Sometimes fics do still go in and make 500, 700, or 800 upvotes before going off to pasture, but that's something you see... once every few weeks or so? Even having 1000+ followers isn't even close to a guarantee, because follower decay and follower fragmentation, and follower overload are all things. A lot of people who joined the site are either gone or vastly less active than they were circa 2012. There's also the fact that not all of your followers will read everything you write. In my case, I have people who only follow me because I wrote Twilestia stuff, and others who only follow me for my comedy. When I write sad, introspective stories about Luna, neither are going to be all that terribly interested. Finally - most users seem to follow 200+ people, and thus probably barely notice anything any one of them does. Look at some of the stories in the bar. Aragon has over a thousand followers but only 250 likes after three days in the bar. Carapace has 1.2K and only 400 views.
I know a lot of people are cynical about the state of the site, and the fact is that viewer and feedback dynamics have changed a lot since 2013. It was extraordinarily unlikely you'd get anything close to the same level of feedback you used to get. Add on to this that a S2 canon only fic is going to be alienating to viewers, that Flutterdash is just no longer a ship that gets instant attention, and that you're writing a longform fic in a community that's seen way too many Composures and Ballads of Twilight Sparkles become so many bits in the digital ether - yeah, even the hype of your triumphant return may be eclipsed. People were also excited about this fic a year ago when you came back - and that's a long time to stay excited.
For my part I prefer not to whine and doomsay, which as people who know me more personally can tell you, is a rare feat. Honestly a lot of why the community has lost it's luster is people looking only at the small picture and just kind of giving up hope. So, I wouldn't do that. Stay vigilant, learn how things work now, and keep going. I'm sure you'll get ahead with time.
Also, if it makes you feel better - I did read Within and Without this year, after being pestered for years to read it by Nadnerb. To be frank, it was filled with early fandom weirdness, I kind of felt like your leads were OOC, a lot of pointless drama was added to the setting, and I had some head-banging frustration with pacing towards the end. That said - I ended up kind of liking it. I liked how messy the romance between Luna and Twilight ended up being. That it had an edge. You were also one of the few people to predict Luna just how self-destructive Luna would end up being in canon and you damn near close to predicting how that would manifest.
People are still reading your stuff. Give it time, and they'll read this one too.
4660089
somewhere at 540-550k
At least if the drafts haven't massively changed.
Edit: And that's sans "afterward"/epilogue/denouement/whatever
I have no means to gauge it from a writer's perspective, but I imagine user behavior has probably changed since 2013, for better or worse idk.
Personally, I'm extremely excited to start this story within the next couple weeks as a season 2 romantic adventure story is pretty close to my ideal fic haha
. Granted, I don't typically read unfinished fics, but I'm pretty confident you'll see it through.
I've spent the last couple months catching up on fics outside my typical near-exclusively-twiluna feed and during that I was able to read your AppleShy, PinkieDash, and ApplePie stories (mad props for Where Your Heart Is and Taken For Granted). I've got a couple more assorted one shots to finish up including your RariPie one and then I'm planning on jumping into this.
But yeah anyways, I totally get where you're coming from and imagine that not getting the reception that the story probably merits has to be draining. Admittedly, it seems like there's a lot of really trashy stuff that gets featured, so I'm not sure if being featured is a valid metric to gauge quality, but I do hope the fic can score more attention in the future. All the best.
4660100
My "only read complete fics" policy predates the MLP:FiM fandom, precisely for this reason.
4660659
38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m74lx4t0PI1qb05aco6_r3_500.gif
This got a lot more eyes and kind responses than I expected. I feel twice as bad for whining/letting off steam, now, but thank you all nevertheless.
4659834 Thing is, when something can be interpreted as an excuse, my brain instantly rejects it.
4659844 I have to take your word for it, but that was always the case. W&W/O and LaF both "suffered" for being long stories. On the other hoof, if I have to be completely honest, I am moderately sure I went through a similar whining process with LaF too.
Hearing from the niche readers who were or are excited to read this story is very nice, though.
4659854 I appreciate the vote of confidence, and apologies for making you wait!
4659887 I already regret mentioning how much work it was, though, because it sounds like I feel I am entitled to a response no matter how I shake it. Also, while I appreciate that you're trying to make me feel better, I don't think ragging on other peoples' stories or on the average reader's reading habits is very helpful. It's no one's "fault" except mine in expecting a short-fic's reception from something that is super niche. This is in my head, it's not on you.
4659933 It's worth everything and nothing, and I'm glad to hear from you, to hear you say it. It's worth nothing for the same reason that one critical sentence can destroy a thousand pages of praise, and it's worth everything because it gives me purpose. So thank you!
4659934 A lot of follower falloff/drifting, and also probably overestimating how many of a person's followers translate to readers for any given story. As someone else said here, most people follow more authors than they can reasonably be expected to keep up with.
As for the signal boosting and such, I expect I will say similar things to a lot of very well-intended people here: Not only am I terrible at marketing my stuff, I have no desire to do it, either, yet I cannot rid myself of having expectations matching someone who was great at it. I have unreasonable expectations, and I'm aware of it. I actually made a small effort to coordinate EqD posting with fic posting, but I messed it up.
That all said, just adding this fic to a bunch of groups does sound manageable. I'll try doing that, I guess. It just ignites a lot of questions about whether I feel it's important to try to snare readers. I want people to read because I want them to want to read it, but I don't wish to take on the role of a persuader.
My relationship with reviews, however, is strained. Probably worth a blogpost that will gain me a lot of enemies.
4659938 As far as I understand, the user dropoff is vastly exaggerated, and not nearly as dramatic as some have made it out to be, but I may be wrong?
4659960 I have not had the pleasure of reading that one, and my reading schedule is absolutely packed this semester, but now I feel like I have to check it out. Not necessarily because of the book's premise, but because it would be interesting to read something that someone else thinks reminds them of something I've written, if that makes sense. I'll note it down and try to see if I can't snag it by christmas!
4659976 Realistically, it'll get a small bump from EqD when it goes up there, and it'll accrue readers with regular updates, but also shed people as the story gets longer. I don't like crunching numbers and predicting and trying to set exact expectations, I just know that when I look at the numbers (and unexplained/silent downvotes), I feel sad.
I'm basically stuck saying I don't want to do "marketing" work and claiming I write for myself while whining over the number of readers. Business as usual.
4659981 Real talk? Audio books are amazing. And hey, feel free to forget again, but if you read my blog posts, you'll probably be reminded another 10-15 times as I post random crap related to this fic, hah.
4660007 People don't need a reason. People don't have to justify why they don't read X or Y. But I absolutely respect that for those who came into pony fanfic as their first fandom and source of fanfic (as was the case for myself), your relationship with genres, tags, and tendencies (such as updating long stories) changes. I can say "no really, it's fully written, updates twice a week, promise!" until I turn blue, but my feeble reassurances won't counter peoples' shaped preferences.
4660089 I don't know exactly how refeatures even work, nor do I think I care to know, but it's nice to know there's potentially some fancy algorithm that might suddenly let more people discover the story.
I did send it to EqD yeah, and it should go up there sometime soon-ish. You'd think that by now I'd have mastered the art of synchronising these releases, but I get impatient every time. I'm gonna look into FiMF groups though.
As for the "demand" thing, yeah. Many people have pointed it out here, some commenting on fatigue or mistrust as additional factors. Don't know how new seasons, new readers, old readers—all that jazz—factors into it, It's all speculation.
Yeah, Kits has it. I wouldn't want to be more specific. But hey, if you're interested, shoot me a message!
4660100 Yeah, you confirm what others have suggested, and hey, that's completely fair of course. I'm not asking people to justify or explain themselves here, that much should be obvious, I just doubt that for every read I've had so far, there are five people like you who are holding off. I doubt there is even one for every one, and I don't know if I believe the spike will be particularly large when I post the last chapter.
4660126 Yeah, I guess it must've zoomed by the box, but people gave it a miss because... hm. I'd say "I failed to sell the story", but I would never want to misrepresent what the story is just to lure in people who otherwise wouldn't want to read it, so I guess everything's working as it should, kinda.
And hey, I appreciate the help, or the thought of helping, absolutely!
4660137 Yo, for serious, thank you. Just, thanks.
4660792
Honestly, I haven't seen much of a dropoff. Readership numbers are still comparable, but with an ever increasing variety of stories, it can be hard to get people to focus on yours in particular. As previously mentioned, back in the earlier days an epic would be devoured because there was not nearly as many choices. Now, while they are still consumed, casual readers have a huge backlog of one shots to consume as well.
Yes, that's true, but the numbers accrued will tend to vastly outweigh the numbers shed. As more eyes get on it, you'll find you get readers from mere word of mouth.
4660188 Things can always be worse, but it's not a very persuasive argument, and certainly not to soothe worries or hurts. Of course there are better stories out there that get less attention. That will always be the case.
But hey, I appreciate what you're trying to say either way. If nothing else, I'll try to remind myself that yes, I absolutely did do the thing, and this isn't one of those cases where I actively despise the story I wrote, as has happened in the past. That's a victory, too.
4660246 Aw, well, I'm glad to hear it, then! Thank you for following, and I hope the story does not disappoint.
4660355 New stories, popular stories, latest updates, feature box, thumbs, guh. This is seriously the part I love the least about writing. If the fic popped up in another box, then I guess that's good, though! (It's been very long since I've shopped for stories on the frontpage).
I'm sure the regular bumps on "latest updates" will bother some people into reading anyway. Something something persistence.
4660533 If you know your own reading speed/preferences well, then you should be able to figure out where, if at all, you wish to join before it finishes. It'll be a bit over 20k words per week, very consistently.
For the record, though: I detest cliffhangers. I prefer humorous chapter endings, or endings for emphasis, and only stray into the dramatic occasionally. If your worry is that there will be a "will she live or won't she" chapter ending, and that you'll have to wait four days to find out, I generally think those are dumb as all heck myself and to my knowledge, I've not done that.
4660560 I'm not really hunting target numbers, so this isn't a failure to hit a specific amount of reads. It's a very basic and silly whine. When I wrote this, the idea was basically "I don't know what I expected, but I hoped for more than this". Doing "proper marketing" is right out. The idea of "learning how things work" is antithetical to the way I approach writing, because while I truly wish for everyone who would like this story to read it, I'm not trying to sell a product.
Yes, the distinction does not save the logic failure of complaining about a lack of attention while refusing to do the things that get attention. I am aware of this, but as I have also said, this is not logical. It's not a problem and a cry for help or a question of how to "fix" it. It's an overview of the state of things, and my disappointment in myself, not in the things.
Anyway. Sorry. I really do appreciate your words, it's just that I'm aware of all these factors. I've been writing ponyfic for a damn long time, and the distress stems in large part from how unsurprising this all is. I have had serious issues with popularity since I began publishing W&W/O. If you did indeed finish that one, thank you for reading.
4660670 User behaviour
probablydefinitely has changed, but that's just one of very many factors. But hey, if this story is up your alley, I'm really glad to hear it!In case you missed it: The entire story is actually written, I'm just staggering the release because I'm old-fashioned and nostalgic about other adventure stories. New chapters every Tuesday and Saturday until the story is done, cross my heart and hope to fly, stick a cupcake in my eye! (And, hey, really happy if you're enjoying the older stories, too!)
I wouldn't dream to suggest my story is better than another, nor would I ever demand a certain level of response because I've deluded myself into thinking it has X level of merit, but I reserve the right to be disappointed. You're spot on about the feature box not necessarily being indicative of quality, absolutely, but it's absolutely critical for attention, which is why I detest the damn thing.
4660785
A fair point, really.
But its true: you're not the first to have this happen .
~Skeeter The Lurker
Always enjoyed your stories my friend, this one was just not on my radar until this post you made. So, if it helps any, I only remembered to check this story out thanks to your little rant here.
Enjoying it so far, but it is definitely a old school feeling, but impressive. I still can't picture what the peryton's look like beyond griffon's with antlers, or maybe that is what they look like, and I am picturing them exactly. Was quite confused on what creature's they were going to meet until some description was given, as I haven't really heard more than the name before.
This story reminded me about non-verbal communication between friends, and Fluttershy and Dash have it completely down pat between each other. Asides from a mistake on Rarity's part, a romance between them hasn't really shown up at all, but I expect this will be a long story, so plenty of time for it to form.
At this point, mlp is more or less broken into three sections, in my opinion.
1. Before Alicorn Twilight
2. Before Starlight's apprenticeship
3. After Starlight's apprenticeship.
Season 2 was so long ago that I can only vaguely remember what didn't and did happen already before this story began. Magic Duel didn't happen, so I guess Trixie is either currently being run out of towns or working on the Pie rock farm
*everything should be measured in Trixie's, or so Trixie says.* 
I look forward to seeing how this continues though, good luck, and don't despair!
4660823
Ohhhh nice! I'd definitely add a note that it's complete and just doing staggered releases right after "A season two story." in the description. And yeah I think the staggered approach is a good idea.
4660795
Re: refeatures, the bottom three slots in the Feature Box on the homepage are reserved for story updates, rather than new stories. If a story is popular enough*, it'll show up there every time you post a new chapter.
*I don't think we know the actual metrics/algo behind this, and of course timing still plays a part; you're not gonna get in there if you update the same day SS&E does.
Re: EqD, it would have been really difficult to sync up anyway -- they've been suuuper laggy lately. (EDIT: Oh shit, it's up! Spam 'em every time you post a new chapter so you get in the story update posts too.)
Re: wordcount, as a reader I'm intimidated. You've written something longer than The Hobbit plus The Lord of the Rings; that is a lot of time to ask a reader to invest. (I could read anywhere from four to ten published novels in the same time, or over a hundred short stories. Is your story as good as, if not better than, those other stories?) I have absolutely justified ignoring fics I'd otherwise be interested in simply because they had half your wordcount.
(All that being said -- because it's you, and because you're so enthusiastic about it, I'm still going to give it a go; we go way back, I love you man, etc. But if we were strangers? I'd blow past it in a heartbeat. "What could they possibly have to say that's worth half a million words? Couldn't stomach murdering their darlings?"
I also know there's lots of folks out there who DGAF and have no problem reading really long ponyfics; I just worry that you've "priced yourself out" of a large portion of your potential audience.)
Now, as a writer? I'm impressed by and faintly jealous of your accomplishment. It's been a huge struggle for me to finish a fic a tenth as long. Regardless of any metric, you should be supremely proud of yourself for that.
4660795 I still think I need to be the one thanking you. You welcomed me into this beautifully crafted world and asked for my advice and feedback. That means so much.
We are here for you, reading that blog because of you. Post your whining if it helps to lighten up the mood, even a little
I do look forward to reading this once it's tagged Complete. Unfortunately, my reading backlog for the RCL of stories-already-fully-published is large enough that I can't make many exceptions for stuff-in-progress-that-looks-good. D:
4660812
It doesn't always have to be direct cliffhangers. The survival of characters is rarely in question, and on the whole, as a reader I appreciate the plot armor shielding the protagonist(s) I'm invested in from serious harm. Mostly, when writers violate that convention it just comes across as a cheap way to jerk on my emotions.
Often, it's more subtle things that cast a shadow on several connected chapters, sometimes large stretches of the story. Things like "these characters are on the outs, but they are separated and / or important stuff is happening, so it won't be dealt with for a while", or "character A is laboring under misapprehensions which are leading her to act in ways that are going to cause all sorts of trouble", or hostage scenarios that don't have any redeeming storytelling aspects, like the hostage suborning their captor or something. It's pretty subjective what can evoke that cliffhanger-y feeling anyway, but when that happens, my enjoyment of the journey lessens as I find myself becoming more and more focused upon the destination. I've read stories that were very gripping and intense, but I wasn't actually having that much fun along the way because a large part of me was just waiting and hoping for things to get better.
I'm not really that worried about this kind of thing here, but quite a few of the romantic subplots in your stories didn't come to fruition until the very end, and there's going to be ups and downs regardless. I'll probably start on it in some weeks, and I'll try to give you feedback as I go along. If your past work is any indication, It's going to be good, so I have something to look forward to!
4660900 I absolutely recognise that, too. Awareness of issues sadly does not translate to conquering those issues. But, enough pseudo-miserable crap from me!
4660937 Oh, there's another name I recognise, hi! Glad I could whine you into reading!
Okay, okay, I jest.
Hey, if you're struggling to visualise the peryton, have I got good news for you! Some are familiar with the D&D version, some google it once they realise it's an uncommon mythical creature, but for those who really just want to know, and those for whom my descriptions were inadequate, I do in fact have several pictures I've drawn in my spare time. I'll post them soon, along with a lil' repeat rant on the idea of pictures in heads vs. words.
If Trixie is your measuring tool for canon location, then, well... yes, I'm afraid Magic Duel is a casualty. If it's any help, I can say with moderate certainty that Trixie isn't very central to this plot, though!
Or can I.
(I can).
(Or can I!)
4661056 You're probably right. I'm gonna update the long-desc. We'll see if this pays off either way!
4661119 First, appreciate the clarification on the re-feature. I am fairly sure you've actually explained this to me at some point in the past too, hah.
I hear you re: word count, and you're certainly not the first to bring up length as an issue. To comment upon that, and the concept of trimming all in one fell swoop, I very much respect readers' preferences and their time, but I also have to focus on telling the story that I wish to tell. If you'll permit a very brief comment on something that very much should be a length blog post:
Readers of fan fiction often become critics and editors out of habit. That is not to say my (or any) works are above criticism, I just observe that almost everyone walks into reading a story intent upon delivering critique, and I cannot quite understand why, because that is not normal in engaging with any other art form, or even the same art form in a different context. Specifically to the issue of length, I have pared down the story and cut all the parts that I wished cut, and all the parts where I agreed with feedback given. The story is the story that I wished to write, and suggesting that more should be cut is the role of a publisher, not that of a reader.
That's not meant to sound defensive! Everyone is of course welcome to their opinion, and if you think I am trying to place a bar to entry on opinions, then nothing could be further from the truth. I even reject the word "literature" as a useful term for anything beyond denoting subjective judgements of quality. I just feel that in the realm of fan fiction, everyone sees themselves as an adversary entering a work intending to criticise when there are so many more ways to approach a text.
Right. Um.
Yeah, that's a blogpost I've been meaning to write. Again, that's not really meant for you, or in defence of To Perytonia. It's just a general thought I've been sitting on for a very long time.
To you specifically? If you're concerned about time, this may not even be the fic for you. This is really, really long because I enjoy slow burns and deliberations, but I absolutely very much believe that literally every scene serves a purpose. There is a one-and-a-half page sequence way, way further in that is pending deletion, and I'm still split on how many of the epilogues to use, but that's about it.
You really do know what to say to get me talking. Again sorry, but the fact that I'm spending so much time replying to people here should speak volumes about exactly what you suggest: I am enthusiastic about this story, and I do hope you get around to reading it if you are in the mood for something slow and purposeful yet haphazard, irregular and inelegant, teasing and delightfully frustrating, but—
—at the same time, I refuse to accept that the length is a quality marker by itself, and by that token, the only way I can accept feeling pride for this "accomplishment" is that it proves I have the capacity to keep my mind on task for monumentally large projects.
(Still waiting for you to write something non-dark/sad, darnit.)
4661183 Let's agree to disagree or agree, but hey, it's not like we're done, either! So many more words for you to... flop? Swim? Wriggle through? Listen, you're a ferret, you know your preferred mode of locomotion better than I.
Edit: I totally never mis-mustelided you. This always said "ferret".
4661314 But when you respond to my whining, you're teaching me that whining is acceptable, and it's clearly not, because I can not and must never show any cracks in the armour or betray any weakness!
Challenge mode: Determining levels of seriousness in the above paragraph.
Really though. Thank you.
4661549 Naw, I hear ya. Time as narrated and as read and perceived and all that jazz is complicated enough without having to muddy the issue by posting it piecemeal, I understand why that's an issue for some. The examples you give are good, and I absolutely understand the concept of unpleasant yet still "weak" tension. From the sounds of things, you really should better wait for it to finish!
As for feedback, well. Hey, I'm always happy to get peoples' opinions, but I can only refer to what I said to RBD in the post above, hah. Mostly, I just hope you have a good time reading it, you know?
4661581
Re: approaching fics as a critic/publisher vs. as a reader, I think you make some really interesting points; I guess I can't speak to how common it is for a reader to do that. (I agree it would be a touch weird for a rando who just wants to read fic to sit down with the intention of critiquing it to bits.) (Though it occurs to me that any writer who "just wants to read fic" should absolutely be reading at a metatextual level as well, to improve their own craft if nothing else.)
I absolutely approach every fic I read as a critical endeavor; not only am I a proofreader/copyeditor by trade, I also made it a habit in my years running the Vault, where every fic I read was constantly being evaluated so I could decide if I wanted to invite it. Nowadays I'm just evaluating if I want to A. keep reading it, B. upvote it, and C. shelve it on my Loved bookshelf.
Sold.
Honestly, I'd been thinking about this on and off throughout the day, and I realized that it helps that you have the whole thing written and edited ahead of time -- i.e. it's not some meandering serial where the author didn't know where they were going when they started out, didn't find their voice or the point of the story until 100k words in, etc.
That's pretty much exactly the way the compliment was intended, so that worked out! It's taken me six years to string together 50k words, because I am both terminally concise and really bad at forcing myself to just sit down and write.
Mmmmmaybe PONY Legacy'll do it for you? It's first and foremost an adventure, though it does get a bit darklight (do people still say "darklight"?) in spots. Oh and yannow, I don't consider "Old Friends" sad, there just isn't a "bittersweet" tag. ...But I guess I do kinda have a shtick, huh?
4661609
And see, I don't mean to suggest that the average reader does exactly that, and there is always the whole vocal minority argument, I recognise that, but the impression I get from fan fiction and those who read it is that people seem to think critical reading is an elevated form of reading, and that is blatantly false. It is always valid and useful, but critique in all its forms is just one approach, and when combined with thought-to-text and direct access to an author, it leads to a very curious author-reader relationship!
Dang. For once I actually managed to articulate exactly what I wanted to say. Yay.
As a counterpoint: If I ever lost the ability to "just read a book", I'd probably go mad. I didn't go into reading the latest book I read with the intent of learning - not that I think you necessarily mean that people need to squint as they read and take every opportunity to study instead of enjoying.
I recognise your situation is a bit different anyway, though. As you say, you are an editor. I wonder how differently you read from I, sometimes. The editors I work with for To Perytonia amaze me, and the way they read seems very different from the way the other pre-readers do. I don't know if you have to make a conscious effort to turn off your spellchecker lasers, but hey, you sound like you (like I!) are still able to read and assess something from a perspective of enjoyment, and that's what's important.
First of all, I appreciate your faith! I also think you... inadvertently kind of put into far more elegant words what I tried to say, actually. You understand what I meant better than I did myself until now.
If someone writes without purpose and a goal in mind, words will be "wasted" (quotation marks because writing can be joy itself, and words are never truly wasted, I just mean for the sake of making a good narrative). If someone writes a story with a plan that is made and then executed, I feel anyone sticking their snout into the narrative telling them something should be cut is being very rude.
That's just from my perspective because I very much come from the school of "begin with the ending" storywriting, of course, but an example: I think Sam and Frodo's journey over the mountains of Mordor is extremely dull, dreary, and that it drags on like all hell. That's my opinion based on my own sensibilities. No way would I tell Tolkien to snip it to make his story better.
There. I've now pulled on Tolkien to make an argument, ensuring I come off as a pompous ass. Perfect.
For serious, people keep talking about how if there's a will there's a way, but that's partial bullshit and you know it. If you actually have hobbies, a social life and/or a job, that puts you at a disadvantage! I assume that any "tips" will sound terribly condescending, but fact is, self-discipline is actually one of the rare areas where I do well, and what works for me is to put on a long youtube mix of epic fantasy music, and resolving to do nothing but write until it has run its course. I doubt that'll help for you, and not everyone is unfortunate enough to have so little to do that they can tell the world to go sit in a ditch for five hours at a time, but if you truly do wish to write more, I hope you find what works for you some day.
And I have seen that PONY Legacy does indeed not have any super-scary tags! I just... well. I think I actually poked at Old Friends, but seriously, I think I'm even more scared of bittersweet than I am sad. I like "scared of" better than "hate" because it's more honest. The idea of a fic that's set ten years after the end of S2 is extra super frightening because it separates us so far from canon. That's not critique in the least, I just can't handle it.
Totes McGrotes not trying to bother you with all these pokes. About all I can stomach these days are super-fluffy lighthearted funny stories like CiG's "Perfectly Safe". Just saying that if you ever wrote anything that fits my preferences, I'd read it, but I accept that it's likely to remain just a courtesy statement, however sincere!
Good grief, but we do prattle on, don't we?
4661625
The internet's been very interesting in that way. This fandom is the first I've been in where anyone can (attempt to) chat with the show's staff whenever they feel like it about whatever they want. It's almost like a rebuttal to "death of the author" -- the author ain't dead, I can tweet 'em right now!
Huzzah!
Not necessarily that every reading experience should be a study session, no... but I do think it's extremely valuable for writers, when they're reading, to pay attention to their reactions to a given work or passage or line: "Boy, that's clever" or "Ah, what a lovely image" or "This is terrible" or "...What did I just read?" If they read something they like -- why did they like it? What did that author do that was so good? If they read something they don't -- why don't they like it? What did that author do that was so bad? And finally -- how can they integrate or avoid that, as appropriate?
The big piece of advice given to aspiring authors is to read and write as much as they can, but the unspoken corollary to "read as much as you can" is "and pay attention to what you're reading so you can see how other authors do things well or poorly." Every reading experience can be a learning experience, but absolutely doesn't have to be a study or analysis or dissection experience, you know?
Oh, uh... I can't... actually do that. The best I can do is not stop to make a note of it. If the author is someone I consider a friend, I try to marshal it into a benefit, and keep track of the typos I find and drop them a note. If I really like them (and there are enough typos to make it worthwhile), I give them a list of the typos and corrected BBCode/HTML to dump into FIMFic/wherever, because that's my neurotic little jam.
Despite how the above may sound, absolutely!
Absolutely. I met a guy at a con once who loved writing ponyfic and had filled spiral notebooks with it. He was faintly surprised to find out what I did "for a living" within the fandom -- he had no idea that fanfiction sites existed. He just liked writing. And that's totally fine (more than "fine," really, I think it's sort of pure and beautiful).
But I also think that if you're going to offer something up for public consumption, you should take the time to smarten it up and dress it up in its Sunday best before kicking it out the door into the cruel world. It's not "just for you" any more; there's an implicit understanding that by publishing something anywhere (on a blog or a website or in a magazine or a book), you're opening the doors to comments, reviews, critiques, criticisms.
For sure. What they really mean to say, though they might not have the awareness or tools to say it, is that they don't understand why a particular thing was included -- they don't understand what it's adding to the narrative or characterization or what-have-you. (And if a majority of your readers are looking askance at something... maybe it was a mistake? Of course, you can never really know proportions except with prereaders.)
i.imgur.com/NeNDRY9.gif
Right? I don't know how people like SS&E do it. I assume it's a combination of a lot of free time and being one of those writers that can just sit down and words spill out of them until they feel like stopping. I, sadly, am the kind of writer who can picture everything perfectly clearly in my head, but when I lay pen to paper or fingertips to keyboard it's like wringing blood from a stone to get the words out onto the page.
I do typically write locked away in a room alone with headphones on playing orchestral music, whatever happens to fit the tone I'm trying to write. (Naturally the TRON Legacy soundtrack played a pretty constant role while writing PONY Legacy.) What's really going to help is finally finishing my degree in the spring, and then I'll have so much time I won't know what to do with myself -- except I have so many things I want to do that I won't have nearly enough time to do them all.
Aww, it won't bite, honest! Mind you, "Old Friends" was actually the rare exception to my "blood from a stone" issue; it just poured out of me so easily, so I'm rather fond of it.
Well, that's fair, and the fact that it's a crossover prooobably isn't helping much either. For what it's worth, the central conceit kind of means that the main characters are sort of stuck in S2, development-wise (example: Twilight is a unicorn living in the Ponyville treebrary), because a lot of things get put on hold when the Princess of the Sun disappears...
The next adventure I'd plan to write (though still a crossover) is likely going to take place smack dab in the middle of S2, so maybe I'll finally hook you with that -- look for it in, oh, maybe 2024!
It's funny that you mention CiG -- I'm a firm believer in his "stories about ponies are stories about people" mindset, so I write about flawed ponies in tough situations. Sometimes, if you want to see what ponies are made of? You gotta split 'em open and take a look at their hearts.
I mean, sure, writing is fun, but writing about writing? Mmmmmm.
4661589
you're welcome
you know, that 'no cracks and weakness' thingy was kinda familiar, almost like I've read a story about it...
Yeah, I know what that's like. I can't not notice them. Some typos I can ignore more easily than others, but nothing breaks me out of immersion more easily than misused homophones. I swear, 85% of fanfic writers using the English language can't tell discreet / discrete apart anymore... *grumble*
When I read a story and stumble upon typos, my reaction can go from "there's too many of these and it's not that good otherwise, either, so I guess I'll quit now" through "this is otherwise a decent story and I'm engaged by it, so I'll keep putting up with it, but ugh" to "I will actually message the author about this because this story is awesome and it deserves to look as polished and professional in a technical sense as it does in every other respect". If I bother sending in corrections, it means I care about the story quite a bit and want it to be as good as it can be.
Other than that, I mostly just opinionate about what I read if I leave reviews. That's how this works, right? A lot of what makes a story enjoyable or not is a matter of taste, and I only have my personal preferences to go on. I'll point out things like "that line was really funny", "that characterization is spot-on" or "I don't like this interpretation of that character / that trope or cliché very much" or "that didn't make a lot of sense to me; why didn't character X do this instead?". "I liked it, keep up the good work!"-type reviews are nice to get, but I typically prefer to get feedback that is a little more specific than that. But maybe not everyone feels that way.
4661938
Just to be sure I'm not giving the wrong impression: I absolutely do prefer the closer reader/author relationship to the alternative despite my words to the contrary. I just sometimes wish it didn't involve me. Except, sometimes I do. Mixed bag! (And no, I'm very much dead, thank you. I'll answer "what did you mean by-" in private conversations only, hah.)
By all means. In the simplest form of this, I agree. Reading is learning about writing. I just meant to defend peoples right and need to not have to "study" every moment every day, that's all. I didn't make it past the first page of the last book I read before I took notes. I didn't end up incorporating that into To Perytonia, though.
I've heard from more than one individual like this, hah. I get it. There's a surprising percentage of fanfic readers who have a near-compulsive, or actually-honest-to-dog compulsive need to correct this sort of stuff. Some are even apologetic about it.
Absolutely. I met a guy at a con once(...)
D'you know, that is the most amazing thing I've heard today. That's great. I recognise it may unintentionally sound condescending, or come across a though I'm trying to put this person on a pedestal, but I just love knowing that there are people out there who do this.
I think this is the most difficult part of fan fiction, really, because I don't know that I even agree. Is posting something on the internet putting it up for public consumption? You're putting it in an arena where you have no choice but allow critique, but are you inviting that critique? If you have a deviantArt gallery with all comments disabled, what do you make of people who mail you to "just give you their thoughts"? Is the only defence of critique that the system (FiMF in this case) allows it, and that you "knew what you signed up for"?
I'm thinking out loud. I don't say this as an attack on critique or commentary. I am obviously not thinking of myself here: I engage with comments very actively myself. I just mean this in response to the idea of "dressing up" your work, because the idea that you owe it to the internet to make your work better before you show it doesn't... hm. It doesn't come across as obvious or logical to me, but I understand most will want to do it.
I think most of the other bits regarding critique are well covered by now, but as to this:
People too often romanticise those writers for whom words flow in a torrent. In my experience, the hard-wrought words are just as, if not more beautiful in the end. I like using Kits as an example, because I know he works hard to squeeze out his words, but none can deny the results.
You finish your degree half a year before I, it seems, and I hope that you find the words if you choose to write! If you end up writing something mid-S2, you know you have in me a reader, if the tags allow for it, but that's neither here nor there. Sadly, no assurances about "it's not that sad" will help me, though. To be completely honest, there is a chance I'm done reading pony fanfic altogether, but I can't say for sure. It's connected to some very personal and deep-seated stuff that I probably have to deal with some day.
Not much of a story otherwise! I also enjoy that very line because it says people, and as you may know, while I write character-focused and enjoy writing about people, I also enjoy the differences between people and humans.
CiG's a gem any way you shake it, though.
4662192 Not had the pleasure of reading it, unfortunately! Scary scary "sad" tags and such, but yeah. Anyone who tells you perfectionism is a positive trait can go sit in a nettle patch.
4662295 Just chiming in here: I hope my words did not give the impression that opinions are unwelcome. It's all on me, I suspect, because I read this "feedback", and I get the impression that I'm supposed to do something about it. If people who leave in-comment reviews are the type of person to tell the waiter, "please bring the chef, I would like to thank/yell at him for my meal", then that's fair enough. I never do that sort of stuff myself.
The metaphor doesn't work, of course. This is a fandom. This sorta stuff is normal here, I get it. Maybe everyone who leaves "reviews" and "feedback" are aware that what they present—to my eyes—as objective critique is in fact opinion. Maybe that part is implicit, but I often feel at a loss for what to say in those cases. Someone reads a story I wrote and say "Chapters 2, 4 and 7 should be cut, chapter 19 dragged on". What the heck is my reply? "Thank you for reading"? "Sorry"?
As harsh as it may seem, and though I of course read every comment, I'm not after a chorus of voices yelling their opinion. When I don't know a person, their tastes, their preferences, and how they've judged other works, I can do literally nothing with such a "review". Feedback needs to be presented in context, and there is no context to strangers on the internet.
Ugh. I'm sorry. That probably sounded super defensive and adversarial. Forgive me, that was not my intent. It's not even a critique of critique, I'm just trying to explain why I'm a little confused and weirded out when people review my stuff, be it comments or letting me know that they reviewed my story on some website or other.
4663015
It was like 'that sounds kind of familiar... ... ... Eternal'. And I also like spreading my fav-list around 
well, you totally should. It's not sad sad and the ending is great. I've read it 3 times and every time I was in tears. But not because it's sad, mind you, quite the opposite
I hope you don't mind me basically advertising another story in comments to your blogpost about your story
4661938
I've been reading your exchanges here and nodding a lot, but this problem plagues me as well. "Concise" is a word that has followed me throughout highschool and college. It's a good thing in technical documentation and reports and such, but it sucks to high heaven when your trying to make a compelling narrative. At least it's not purple? But yeah, getting words out sucks. It's the second largest problem I have.
4663008
flushes and mutters before hiding
4663015
Nah, you're right. That kind of review is not helpful at all. Why should those chapters be cut? If it said "because I found them boring and nothing of note happened in them", that would at least give an idea where this person is coming from. You may not agree with them, but it's a one-person representative sample of someone's reaction to your work, and hey, if you get a whole bunch of complaints all saying the same thing, maybe there's something to it?
Of course, "this is what I want it to be and I think it's fine" is still a valid defense. I write to please myself first and foremost, but I also want to further my craft while I'm at it, as far as verisimilitude and characterization and so on is concerned. So feedback what people thought of it is useful. As long as it is actually the kind of feedback you can extract that information from, that is.
4663008
I typically am, because I feel as though I'm giving an author a bunch of work to do, unsolicited, with no warning. (Also why if there's a lot of issues, I try to give them pre-corrected content, so if they trust me/don't feel like dealing with it, the work's already done.)
I feel the same way. I've wondered recently if he ever felt the urge to get online.
Well... yes, of course. (Unless it's password-protected or otherwise hidden from public view, not indexed by search engines, etc.)
The timing of our disccusion on this subject is interesting. I'm late in getting back to you because I was absorbed in a very related debate about reviewing; if you're interested in my full thoughts, I have a nice big comment here that goes into detail. (And there's a followup post here.)
The short version is: Yes, you are inviting that critique. When you share your work with the world, that act of sharing is consent for the world to tell you what it thinks of that work.
I would assume that people going out of their way to note an author who's disabled comments were deeply affected by their work, positively or negatively, and felt compelled to let the author know. (I think the author has no obligation whatsoever to respond to or even read these notes.)
The bluntest, most-simplified explanation of my point of view is: If someone won't take the time to, say, spellcheck their story, why should I take the time to read it?
If you publish something online, you're doing it so other people will consume it. If you're actually trying to create art, then you're hoping that other people will, on some level, care about what you created. If you don't care enough about what you created to put in a little effort give it a polish, why should other people care about it, let alone take the time to consume it?
I will say that, generally speaking, I'm of the opinion that if you're going to do something, you should try your best at it.
Huzzah for finishing degrees! I cannot wait to have my life back.
I find that writing can be quite cathartic... even writing ponyfic.
(My one-shot "Home" came about that way, which I talk about a little in an attached blog post.)
This is an excellent, worthy distinction to make.
4664096
i.imgur.com/BWmelRg.png
My tech writing professor/advisor is really jealous of me in that regard, but it sure it a bitch to hit wordcounts other professors assign. I've said everything that needed saying; what do you want from me?