Pep Rallies · 5:51pm Jul 23rd, 2016
Apparently, July will be my month for dangerous blogs. I blame the mid-season hiatus.
art by uotapo
When I was growing up, my family moved a lot. The nature of my father's job meant that every promotion came bundled with relocation. As a result, I attended a more than normal number of schools. I was once given the option of which school to attend; but for the most part, that decision was out of my hands. More often than not, it was out of my parent's hands as well. I attended the school that was local.
Starting in high school, the schools that I attended all held pep rallies, and we were required to attend. I didn't actively dislike pep rallies. I was just bored to near unconsciousness by them. Pep rallies promoted upcoming sports events that I wasn't interested in, and banked on invocations of school spirit that I did not have.
Frankly, I found "school pride" to be dumb. Why would I have "pride" in something I didn't choose, participated in only by requirement, and had no influence over? Why would I consider any particular arbitrary grouping of individuals to be "better" than a rival group just because I happened to be in it?
A side effect of this is that, as much as I love this song from Equestria Girls, I have a less than favorable reaction to the bridge.
If you follow me, we'll put our differences aside.
We'll stick together and start working on that school pride!
Am I the only one who finds it ironic (and not in a good way) that Twilight is suggesting bringing the disparate cliques of people together by giving them the chance to feel better than outsiders?
Why do I bring this up? I'll tell you after the break. But first, a couple pieces of quick news.
First, three cheers for new episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic! The hiatus is almost over. 
Next Saturday, July 30th, the next new episode is supposed to air. And I will return to doing Afterthoughts blogs of the episodes.
Second, Bethesda unveiled a lot of new information about the upcoming Vault-Tec Workshop DLC, which is due to release in just a few short days. You can check it all out in the article from Daily Star. Here is a highlight:
from Bethesda:
“This is the first Workshop add-on that actually has quests associated with it,” says Kurt Kuhlmann, Lead Designer on the Vault-Tec Workshop. Because this one happens in a specific place – you actually have a location, not just some things to play with – we could attach quests to it that really make sense as part of the offered content.”
art by uotapo
It has been an odd week. Probably the most significant chord has been that the manager whom I compared to Zephyr Breeze back in my Flutter Brutter Afterthoughts blog is no longer with the company I work for, and once again our future is uncertain. The circumstances of her removal were... unpleasant. On a brighter personal note, Strategic Jordan has started on his Let's Read for Chapter 22, a new Fallout: Equestria discussion group has started up on YouTube that I'll be keeping an eye on for at least a few episodes, and not only will the DLC drop on Tuesday but so will a game I have been looking forward to for over a year: We Happy Few! And, of course, everything last week and next is happening to the backdrop of the political Conventions in my country: giant pep rallies designed to try to get us excited over our choice for the form of Gozer.
Interestingly, this week I was also treated to a couple comments on Fallout: Equestria that invoked the idea of "White Guilt". Admittedly, I wasn't always sure how the reader was drawing the connection between the concept and the particular parts he quoted, or why he thought the story was pushing what he read into it, but the issue of imposed group guilt or pride itself is addressed in the story on several occasions.
from Littlepip:
Was it fair to paint Xenith with all the wrongdoings of the members of her race centuries dead? No more so than to blame me for the things ponies must have done to them.
My own stance is simple: I think that racial guilt and racial pride are stupid ideas. And likewise, national guilt and national pride. Much for the same reason I never cared for pep rallies. I don't believe you bear any responsibility for the actions of people you have no influence over just because you happen to be born with the same skin color, or in the same geographical region (or, for that matter, with the same gender, sexual orientation, broad religious classification, etc). I would add "especially when those people are long dead", but there really isn't a difference between "none" and "extra, emphatic none". And by the same measure, you have no right to feel personal satisfaction at their accomplishments. The actions of someone you don't know and have no connection with do not reflect on you, no matter what you claim to have in common. You aren't a mirror. What reflects on you is your own actions.
art by Audrarius
Granted, it's not exactly taking a risk to proclaim "I am not a racist." It is, however, a bit more of one to announce "I am not a patriot." Especially in the current climate.
But I am not a patriot. I find nationalism to be self-aggrandizing nonsense at best, and generally dangerous. People who think their country is the greatest and best country on the face of the earth are doing nothing but employing myopic perspective to convince themselves they won the flag lottery. Every country has these people, and they are all just as convinced, and just as passionate, and just as wrong.
I never bought school sweaters or school pendants. I don't walk around with flag pens today. Similarly, you won't catch me wearing a hat that advertises the pleas or promises to make my country "great again". That sentiment requires two founding beliefs: that my country was great at some time in the past, and that my country isn't great anymore. And I take issue with both of those. I believe that there are a lot of great things about my country. And there are a lot of terrible things about my country. Furthermore, I assert that it has been this way since the country was founded. And that I cannot think of any collection of greats and terribles from our past that I would wholesale trade away our current ones for. (If for no other reason than I like the internet too much.)
College could have been different than high school, because I absolutely did choose the university that I attended. But my choice was based on proximity to home, available curriculum and offers of financial aid. It had nothing to do with the university's standing amongst its peers, or any other virtues of the institution.
I didn't have "school pride" in college any more than in high school. I had no influence on any of the college's attributes that might make it stand out -- I was an (above-average but non-exceptional) student in an academic program that the university barely cared about. Nothing that the university boasted about was anything I had the right to take credit for by association. And I felt no sense of "superior choice" because none of those qualities had been a factor in my decision. By the same measure, I didn't feel any sense of loss or personal diminishment if the university lost a big game. It wasn't my fault, so why should it impact my self image?
art by Audrarius
You can be proud or ashamed, guilty or gratified, by those things you earn through actions or choice. What others do, in my opinion, is a legitimate source of pride or guilt only if you have noteworthy influence or the opportunity for influence that has baring on those behaviors or deeds of that person. It is easy for parents to feel justified pride in a child they reared. You bare no responsibility for the actions of an absentee parent.
Bringing this back to ponies, I feel this naturally leads to the question: am I proud to be a brony?
And here, the answer is "yes". Why? Because I chose to be a brony. And I made the choice based not only on an enjoyment of the show, but a deep belief in the overall moral message of the show and the virtues it exemplifies. But moreso, because I actively strive to make those virtues a part of my life. The show motivates me to be a better person.
I do not, however, take pride in the accomplishments of other bronies. I'm not proud to be a brony because of how many amazing brony artists I see, or how much bronies give to charity, or any other positive aspects of the community that other people are responsible for. I am happy for them. I am often in awe of them. But that isn't the same thing.
And by the same measure, I am not responsible for the bad behavior that some engage in. I know people who have left the fandom because they don't want to be "associated" with elements of the brony community. As much as that might sadden me when the person is someone I know, or whose work I enjoy, I question that mindset. It is a false association. The people making it are acting no better than people who associate every member of a broad religious group with a handful of extremists, or every member of a broad political group with their party's candidate. Why would you care so much about what these people think that you give them that power over you?
And if the person who believes you are tainted by the actions of other bronies is yourself, don't. Frankly, brony guilt is dumb.
Yep
Well said across the board. And for the record, I was in the same school district K through 12 and I still hid in the library during pep rallies when I could get away with it. You're far from the only one allergic to school spirit.
Only reason I ever went to the pep rallies and the like myself was that unless you had a medical reason for absence, they were mandatory. Yeah, not-fun times.
School was for education, not sitting about patting ourselves on the back for living in the school district we were. Given the option of plopping down for an hour and do jack, I'd much rather have spent some time in the library or study hall, putting actual knowledge into my brain.
Tell that to almost every sports fan, ever.
I agree with much of what you say, but the problem is that this isn't a choice people usually sit down and make. Humans have the genetically given need to join and identify with a social group. And intentionally or not, people are usually raised not to just think of themselves as an individual, but also as a certain ethnicity from a certain country and religion and culture and etc. etc.
And I get what you mean, pep rallies at schools are dumb because the public school system is a faceless machine that gives almost all students no reason to want to be there other than that it's required. And there's no reason to feel guilty for what other people did outside of anything you yourself had part in. But as part of the Brony community, your story inspired many authors and fans. Fallout: Equestria inspired tons of authors to write both in and outside the setting you created, and also inspired huge numbers of other artistic works. Not to mention all the fans of "the original". You're not a fringe participant here, you helped build this community. I think you've earned yourself at least a little "Brony pride".
I'm not sure that patriotism/nationalism/school pride are necessarily based on an unwarranted feeling of accomplishment. They certainly can be, I don't dispute, but I've always seen it more as a kind of love or respect for the collective group entity. In fandom terms, the accomplishments of others in this fandom don't make me proud any more than they do you, but I think that said others and their accomplishments have certainly contributed to making the community a great one to be in (by my own subjective measure), and I enjoy being here for that reason. I wouldn't call that pride. Just another form of respect.
Well, maybe others see it differently. But I definitely agree on the kind of patriotism you speak of; I've always found that a little silly too.
I could not agree with this any more. It's an idea I've felt strongly about myself.
4108499
PErsonally, I just ran to my mom's car and told her to drive me home.
That moment when you want to make a statement and you realize other people ahve made them better than you XD.
Will say that the issue i find is that the nation is not a community. That whole equestrai girls song to me is about making the divisive school and removing the divisiveness. Which is honestly what most nations badly need. And america is a poster boy to that issue though. We are so divisive that we make it that the only option is two different pieces of shit and we ignore all other options available. Because of that.
We do this to ourselves honestly, we always have. Government by no means helps with that, but in the end we are the guys that create sides and factions even when it makes no sense. It is sooo apparent in our sports teams. People hate other teams for arbitrary reasons of them being the other.
I never liked peprallies because they never actaully made you feel like you are part of the group, or addressed the actual issues that caused the divide. That is the truth.
I often find that people who "leave the fandom" specifically because they don't want to be associated with the bad parts are only exacerbating the problem, because if they themselves are representative of the good, then by leaving, they've taken that goodness with them, leaving behind only the bad.
Become the change that you want to see in the world.
That being said, I want to play Devil's Advocate on the point of "you can't be proud of something you haven't influenced yourself."
Pride in being a part of a group can be easily explained as a propagation of shared ideals. I could say I'm proud of the accomplishments of another brony because that other brony committed those accomplishments in service to ideals that I myself stand for, ideals that I actively promote. Freedom of artistic expression, love and tolerance, charity to the less fortunate, etc. I'm not necessarily proud of the other person or trying to wholeheartedly claim their actions as my own. I'm simply proud of the ideal for which we stand. I'm proud of myself for making the choice to call myself a part of a community that exemplifies, through certain actions, that particular ideal. I'm proud that I work every single day to promote that ideal. And by promoting those ideals, I've indirectly contributed to an atmosphere within that particular group that enables the actions of others in service to those ideals. It helps that I myself commit similar actions, but I don't need to. Maybe just buying that person's album, or contributing to that person's charity, is enough to say that I helped make it happen. Maybe being able to point at those actions and say, "this is what we stand for, and this is why I'm proud to call myself a brony", is enough to say that I helped make it happen.
Democratic pride has the added benefit of involving participation from its citizenry, and that enables a form of pride as well. Let's say that the President—oh, I dunno, Velvet Remedy on behalf of the New Canterlot Republic—does something incredibly amazing that is lauded as a non-partisanally brilliant move. Say Velvet Remedy was voted into her position. Say you voted for Velvet Remedy. Isn't that a reason to take "pride" in her actions, and pride in being a part of the New Canterlot Republic? You voted for her after all. You are one of the reasons she holds that position. You did so in service to a shared ideal. You are living, breathing proof that the system that got her to where she is can be capable of producing positive results. There is ideological pride, yes, but there's also participatory pride.
(And, on a side note, I'd like to point out that the Cafeteria Song was done as part of a democratic process as well. By voting for Twilight Sparkle, they're voting for a specific ideal they want to promote in their school. That's something to be potentially proud of.)
That's where nationalism comes from. Yes, I think it's volatile, easy to take advantage of, and very easy to lose control of. And I think that the more distant a politician is from their consistuent, the more dubious the claim. But I don't think that it is inherently false, nor is it unhealthy if practiced in a controlled and self-aware manner.
Which, to be fair, many people don't do.
So I see where you're coming from. But I think it's better to refocus the argument on those who practice nationalism in an unhealthy manner, rather than those who practice it, period. There are certainly very valid reasons to maintain a national pride, or a group pride.
I don't usually comment on blogs just to say I agree with them, but when I do, it's this one.
Well... yes. To all of it.
Finally, someone with their head on straight. You should feel no guilt except for your own.
Hear hear.
But, I do have pride in the label of 'brony'. Of people sharing the concept that if you are motivated by generosity, honesty, kindness, the spreading of joy, of loyalty to your fellow men and your own ideals... that those come together to form a type of magic that can make the world a better place.
I have pride in my country, of what we could become. Otherwise I fully agree with you. I don't believe in judging people for the actions of their forebears.
I take it one step further, I like to try and get people to understand events in the context of the time in which they occurred. And I argue with a lot of people who are bad at statistics. (African-Americans, for example, make up roughly 23% of the population, and 23% of police fatalities, and 23% of Oscar nominees.)
And I'm also a cold unfeeling robot powered by salt and vinegar, so what do I know.
I rarely give comments on blogs, but some things on this one resonated with me. My experiences are somewhat different, since I'm not from USA - I am a Russian - and I have some thoughts of my own on other topics you bring up that I'd like to share.
Schools that I attended did not have pep rallies like those we can see in the video. There were rallies of sorts, when pupils gather in a special room designed for amateur theatrical performances (standard for schools built in Soviet times) and teachers and/or principal would say something to us on some topic. Attendance was mandatory, though.
Ours didn't have much to do with sports. It was mostly for awarding pupils that did well in some field, or present some person(s) to us that had wisdom to share. My favourite one was when we were visited by local OMON police unit. (OMON is a Russian acronym that translates as "Special purpose mobile squad".) The boys (only boys, no girls) were gathered and we were told how good and patriotic it was to serve in the police (as expected), and also brought some of the equipment they used, guns included (no ammo, obviously, and they watched us like hawks) - AK-74 assault rifle, "Kiparis" SMG, VSK-96 sniper rifle etc. - and the boys formed a line to hold the guns. I joined on the fun as well, cause... well, I like guns. (But didn't want and still don't want to serve in the army. Ironic as hell.)
Logical train of thoughts, given your circumstances.
I did take pride in my school, but it was related to the fact that our pupils were very strong in foreign languages, surpassing even students that attended the most prestigious and supposedly the best schools in the city I live in. And I contributed to that advantage as well. I also tended to dislike those snobs that underestimated us due to our school not being a well-known one, and knowing that some of these snobs out there just choked because we surpassed them always brought a sense of satisfaction to me, and I felt no shame in drinking pleasure from said satisfaction, even if it was kinda small or petty of me.
Truth be told, I perceive that song differently, especially since the first "outsiders" we learn of (Crystal Prep Academy) are not even present in that movie. I believe that this song was meant to make others think of abandoning their disparities between cliques, so that they would take pride in their unity. That unity (at least in the first EQG movie) is not directed at any outsider. However, when it comes to Friendship Games, your point shows better in that instance. Both parties are guilty of that - Crystal Preppers are rather snobbish and arrogant, and flaunt their school's superior status in an un-sporting manner, while Wondercolts are very bitter at CHS' losing streak.
Decent idea.
Oooohhh, I believe I have a good idea what you are talking about. As I had mentioned, I am a Russian, and I presume you are at least passingly familiar with what kind of relationship there is between Russia and the USA. Any comment section on the news that bring those up is cancerous. I honestly don't know why I still hover over those. Maybe my brain is a masochist. (Just kidding.)
However, I do consider myself a patriot. But my view on patriotism... tends to be somewhat different from those of some other groups. To me, patriotism is not only feeling pride in your country, it is also being able to point out your country's flaws, and turn attention to them so that they can be fixed. It means acknowledging your country's history in full, both good and bad points, and making deductions from the history to ensure that your country does not repeat the mistakes of the past. It means being as well-versed as possible in politics, so as not to make misinformed decisions. It is not merely printing something like "mah country iz da best", it means being able to act for the common good, and stand ready to defend your country.
What you describe seems to be an extreme form of nationalism, per my scale. I agree that this mindset can be extremely dangerous, just remember World War II and Hitler's ideologies.
But I don't think that a tamed sense of pride is inherently bad. For instance, I have trouble imagining a country's army consisting of soldiers that do not draw pride from their country (in this particular case, the military victories; in Russia, figures like Alexander Suvorov, the greatest Russian army commander, Mikhail Kutuzov, who defeated Napoleon's army when it invaded Russia, Marshals Georgiy Zhukov and Konstantin Rokossovsky, the most famed commanders of Great Patriotic War (Eastern Front of World War II) and others are revered by the army, and soldiers are taught to follow their examples), otherwise it is hardly different from a private military corporation. The only difference would be size and field experience (PMCs, AFAIK, try to hire combat veterans and experienced officers), and the soldiers' wages, I think.
I also don't think money alone would be a good motivation for, say, sports teams.
I will focus on the segments of this quote in a slightly non-linear order. First:
An excellent point, one I believe others should follow. History must not be glossed over... much as it jars me when people point out, say, Katyn.
Second:
I think the issue lies in determining what makes a country "great". Let me share a mindset that can be encountered in Russia.
An older generation, the one to which my parents belong, and the previous one as well tend to think of USSR as a great country. Their reasons behind that include some of the following:
1) We had a great land mass.
2) We had (and still have) a rich history.
3) We had a rich culture full of good works of art.
4) We had a very massive, well-trained and well-equipped army.
5) It was a lot safer to let kids walk outside alone or walk at night. Crime rates were a lot lower, and the police worked better. Moreover, criminals were not heroized.
6) The corruption, while present, was still less rampant, and those who were caught received real punishments, up to execution, regardless of social standing or other circumstances like gender - when Berta Borodkina, a head of trust of restaurants in Gelendzhik (a Russian resort city near Black Sea) was caught and her guilt in receiving brides and abusing her power and misappropriating people's property, which resulted in her having more than one million of Soviet roubles (which were worth a lot more back then than now), was proven, she was executed.
7) There was little to no nationalist frictions between Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians and all the people who lived in USSR (although that depended on the place).
8) Standard Soviet salary was more than enough to live by.
9) USSR was a force to be reckoned with in global politics.
Those are off the top of my head.
Then, USSR dissoluted and Russia went through the 90s, which were an absolute one of the worst times for our country. Let me go by these eight points again (warning, foul language):
1) Land mass shortened. Not really important, but it's really grating if you have relatives in ex-USSR republics and now have to deal with customs.
2) The revisionism of the history went too far in the 90s. People were writing so much BS during this period that the people simply did not know what to believe in anymore, and that lead to a great existential crisis, not to mention destroyed the systematized way of thinking that Soviet people still possessed (and which is less susceptible to brainwashing).
3) An overwhelming mass of pseudo-art that belonged in pits of Hell flooded us with the few really good films from abroad. You could film s**t like (warning, extremely NSFW) killing a newborn by ejaculating in their mouth. I wish I was kidding! Also, some movies had a very bad effect on the growing generation. Much as I enjoy Pretty Woman with Julia Roberts, it lead to many young girls thinking that a prostitute's job was perspective and romantic. As if! Russia of the 90s was very dangerous for prostitutes, many did not survive. What's worse, even underage girls went into that area. Even worse is that sometimes this was done for survival! In USSR, this was unthinkable. And some movies about hitmen led young boys to think that being a hired killer was also a good profession. Soviet censorship could go overboard, and it did, but it would never let such s**t.
4) Army was decimated, chewed out and spat out. The problem of hazing (known in Russian as dedovshchina) went overboard, the modernization was stalled (we're still dealing with the consequences), and don't get me started on First Chechen War, when inexperienced conscripts, 18 or 19 years old, were used by mostly corrupt and incompetent command against trained mercenaries and fanatical Wahhabists and exposed to cruelties that could make a Nazi gag! Serving in the army lost its prestige so badly, that's why I don't want to serve even though they're trying to correct the situation now.
5) Crime went so rampant in the 90s, we literally had inter-gang warfare on streets. Recall these mafia stories about 1920s and 1930s in America? That shit went in our 1990s.
6) One example of how corruption wasn't properly punished anymore: Yevgenia Vasilyeva, who was guilty of mismanagement of equipment of effing Ministry of Defense and who had a fucking mansion bought on mismanaged funds, was barely punished, and fell under an amnesty. In USSR, she would have been shot and left to rot - you don't undermine your country's Ministry of Defense and get away with it!
7) When nationalists were allowed to rise to power, the frictions led to a number of ethnic wars: Georgia vs Abkhazia and South Ossetia, Azerbaijan vs Karabakh, civil war in Tajikistan, Russians against Chechens in First Chechen War most obvious. My parents were forced to flee to Russia and abandon their house in Kyrgyztan when nationalists were rampant there and there was reason to fear for safety. And Mom was pregnant with me already.
8) Salaries were not paid in the 90s for months. Sometimes the only way to make money was crime.
9) Russia basically faded into non-existence in geopolitical arena in the 90s, and the drunkard Boris Yeltsin was a laughing stock.
A common Russian will tell you that Russia stopped being great in the 90s and life turned for the worse, a lot. If you ever wonder why Putin enjoys his popular support, my opinion is as follows: because he managed to fulfill at least some points of greatness I listed, and at least partially fulfilled the social demand of "make Russia great again!" (yeah, I stole that from Trump, I have no shame, but the essence behind his slogan and what common Russian folk wanted are very similar), which gave him a large credit of trust that he was wise enough not to lose (not fully, at least).
Wow, I went for a long one. Bottom line? I think that such social demand appears when there's something going very wrong with the country and the people (a significant portion of people at least) feel the negative effects of it. And that's when they are more susceptible to notions of restoring the greatness of their country. I cannot deduct other reasons for why Trump suddenly became this popular, or how Putin managed to turn from a barely-known by public person to the popular president.
I am not trying to imply that you are right or wrong. I merely share my own observations on the topic.
So do I. Have to give DARPA credit where it is due.
By itself, it shouldn't, but my own experience tells me that if a school/college community is rather tightly knit by achievements of their alma mater and their students' behaviour, it still affects those who didn't even feel that close to its spirit, directly or indirectly. When I was in a class that was notorious for extremely bad behaviour of the majority of the boys in it, as well as rather (as far as I remember) mediocre academic achievements, when even the work of the nerds like myself had problems pulling it out, I was greatly chafed by the fact that my class was considered the worst one among those of our grade (ninth, and there were four of them). I loathed that academic achievements of studious people were overturned by deviant behaviour. I hated hearing the bad reputation of my class over and over again. I endured that thanks to my friends, and I don't want to remember that year ever again.
For me? The answer is neutral. Or, more like, that I enjoy being a brony. I like the fan-art, the videos, the fanfics that this fandom produces (Fallout: Equestria included, naturally
), I have met some interesting people here I enjoy interacting with, and overall I have a good impression of this fandom, but this does not give me a sense of pride. Mostly, I feel pride when someone praises my stories or when they surpass a certain milestone.
Ha-ha. Perfectly said
If pep rallies are a thing here in the UK, they aren't a thing I've ever experienced. I was told to go to the secondary school I went to because it had an Autistic Spectrum Unit, (which was a sub-community within the school and didn't attend many official school functions), but my parents wanted me to go to a mainstream boarding school (I think it was boarding; I left school nearly ten years ago, and this was about five years before that, and I didn't pay much attention at the time). They took it up with the local authority, and lost 'because it didn't have the facilities', never mind that my Asperger's Syndrome went unrecognised till year five, two years before secondary school. I'll never know what I'd be like if I went to the other school, but I did socialise more in the ASU than I did in primary school, and receive some token support for my dyscalculia.
I consider myself a patriot though, not because I am proud of where I live or because I think it's always been great, but because I enjoy living here, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I like that we have a monarchy, and that we can't keep our roads free of pot holes, and that I can sit in my parent's house and type on a laptop about a show for little girls without worrying about anyone hassling me, or random violence. American patriotism, from what I've seen in the media, with flags in the garden and so on, is very strange.
hi hi
I don't think you're the only one who finds it ironic. (xkcd: Pep Rally)
I have to say that I agree with most of what is written here, but with a couple important caveats.
• It is important to consider the moral weight of one's inaction, as well as their action.
• There is a minor, but very real difference between having little influence, and no influence.
Should we be so self-centered that we turn a blind eye and say, "I have not done anything wrong, so I'm perfectly good and cannot do any better," or can we maybe acknowledge that people who are attempting to deal with the troubles of others might be trying to do better?
- Edmund Burke
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
So while it does not make sense to feel guilt over the actions of others, I would argue that it also does not make sense assume that we are utterly powerless to do anything about the actions of others. And I would hesitate to pass judgement on people who are trying to take a stand against what they see and experience as hurtful behavior.
I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for stepping back and trying to protect themselves, because of course everyone has limits to what they can do, it isn't wrong. But at the same time, not-being-wrong is oftentimes the least someone is capable of doing, and there's always some room for improvement.
Part of the reason why I left the fandom was because I strongly disagreed with a lot of the morals that the show came to exemplify after Meghan McCarthy took the reigns, the promotion of "school spirit," in Equestria Girls being just one example. But another big part of the reason why I stayed out of the fandom was because of the unkind ways people treated me and others. I would log onto a forum, or the comments on Equestria Daily and I would see page after page of it. Like after The Cutie Map aired, to name one example, I saw a whole series of posts by people claiming that it was proof that "The writers hate SJWs," and discussing how they could use it to justify being horrible to anyone who disagreed with them.
But we're all interconnected, even if we don't realize how our actions influence others, whether those actions are big or small. Whether it is the taxes we pay, the things we buy, or what we choose say and who we choose to say it to, our actions can have far reaching effects for people we don't even know exist. (And in that way, I should acknowledge that cause and effect does not equal responsibility. I could write ten more pages on that topic alone, but I'll hold off for now.)
Anyways, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I can certainly appreciate promoting what is good about the show and the fandom and trying to make it better. (I don't expect any work of art to be 100% perfect anyways.) But at the same time, I wouldn't necessarily consider people dumb for trying to deal with the unpleasant things they've experienced by backing away and withdrawing their support.
I hope that both can still work together on common ground.
66.media.tumblr.com/ff53bfcd6333591dcaed69682d2b8532/tumblr_n2p2guOFdX1qeablwo1_500.gif
Nah jk I agree with you completely.
<sees picture, and proceeds to have appropiate reaction>
How?
The boss walks in, informs you either in cuts or you are doing a piss poor job, tells you to fuck off, and you do that. Or maybe that's just my boss...
As for your actual post... ehh... yes and no?
Ucchhh... how to explain... forgive me kkat, I'm not that bright, so I may phrase this poorly, so bear with me....
When its for something petty as school, yes, it is moronic. School, at least in our system of education, is a hellscape of brain rotting union funded myopic boring garbage that leaves most of us stupider coming out then going in, and pep rallies are in fact a means these feebs have devised as a distraction and means to pump students up to work harder so the teachers and faculty can get the credit, and like school elections, to make the drones think they're actually having some genuine effect on things. In short, school sucks.
But its ultimately harmless. And there in nothing wrong with national pride... to a point. I personally dislike when it takes the place of grave matters. Yes yes, catchy slogan, now how pray tell do you plan on making it great again? Oh, the immigrants are taking your jobs? Then how about get off that fucking stool at the local diner and actually get out there instead of bitching? Oh, you're so proud and such an upright citizen are you, and the untouchable ol' town hall is screwing over the working man hey? So he says while he sits on that nice welfare check from good ol' sugar daddy Sam. And you don't hear them talking about either of those do you?
Yes, I know, I'm mean. But really... anyway, I agree with you kkat, is what I'm trying to say.
Finally, someone who shares my view of patriotism! I thank you for wording it better than I ever I could!
My problem with your statement about that song though... Is that there are no outsiders involved in that movie. The only outsiders are Twilight and Spike. The song is just about uniting under common ideals, and breaking the walls between groups. That's my opinion at least.
4108519
Out of what I've read, I think I agree with you most.
4108548
When you see people associated with the group you're involved with you can gain respect for them, admire their work, be in awe of what they've managed to accomplish but this doesn't necessarily equate to pride or at least not the definition Kkat is using. Pride in this sense is specific to you and your accomplishments along with things you have direct influence over, and moreover something you care about. I feel that as far as this is concerned the more connected to the accomplishment you are, the more pride you can take in it. You can take the most pride in your own personal accomplishments, you can take a bit less pride in something you helped accomplish as part of a group (a smaller portion in relation to how large the group is and depending on the importance of your role), same goes for if you work through a problem your friend is having or get help working through a problem of yours (dang, I just made this into math). And guilt is the opposite, and should effect you based on how heavy your involvement or how intentional your disinvolvement was. By the time it reaches art people you don't kno irl or online it's basically close to if not nonexistent. This doesn't mean you can't admire what they've done, but Kkat's pride doesn't apply here. The same goes for when a member of a community you're part of does something you morally agree with, you can admire it, agree with it, be in awe of it, or vice versa for something you are morally outraged about, but if you didn't make a visible, intentional, direct contribution to it you shouldn't take pride or derive shame from it. There are many words in the english language to describe what people generally and sometimes erroneously refer to as pride. but we give up dictionary definitions after we're familiar enough with words and come to our own personal understanding of what certain things really mean. So I'd say you're right by your definition and close to Kkat's definition, but somewhat different when it comes to what qualifies as pride.
4108687
With all due respect, I'm just going to say that our problems aren't nearly as bad as the ones you described. The America Trump refers to is not much better if at all better than the America now. We have more pros now, we have more cons now, but overall it's equal. Also Trump has little to no experience with Government and speaks on a third grade level. I don't mean to show who I support in this whole political mess but Trump has driven businesses into the ground and made money from bankruptcy, to me he is on all fronts an imbecile with a foul mouth and now a few good political advisers. He won the Republican Primaries because everyone else dropped out. Unlike Putin, Trump was a household name before he reached this point and his candidacy was originally considered a joke. Now a large portion of the Republican party feels the need to band behind him because they hate the alternative and come up with reasons like "well maybe we need him to screw things up so we can have a better government built from the rubble." A good number of Republicans will agree with you if you say Trump is a poor choice for a candidate, but he's all they've got. Part of Trump's plan to "make America great again" is to build upon the wall/border patrol of Mexico and make the Mexican Government pay for it. He encouraged physical violence against protesters at his rallies and has given no specific official plans for how he's going to accomplish his goals, probably because he doesn't understand how government works beyond increasing his own wealth. He makes bold, unsubstantial claims and generalizations he can't support and his extreme supporters eat that up while others reluctantly join in because they hate Clinton. Hillary's not the best but at least she knows what she's doing. His claim to fame is morally, politically, and generally outrageous statements. Our country is great, it's not the best but I'd take what we have now over whatever he'd give us.
Sorry for the politics rant, but I figure it's better that you know who you're mentioning alongside your country's leader. Our country's getting better over time but for some that's not fast enough, they want fast and furious political change because what they have now isn't enough even though what we have now is actually pretty good. Plenty of people have their own agendas too, their own idea of what a great America looks like. The same goes for every country, I'm sure there were even a few who were comfortable in your country's 90's (though their intentions were likely far from noble). I guess my point is that great is subjective, especially if the change isn't from something as desperate as you say Russia's 90's were.
I blame the weather. Emotions of all kinds tend to run high when the weather is more extreme than usual (e.g. unusually hot, cold, wet...), especially when the weather's having mood swings.
It's not like some of these things didn't need to be said in the current state of the Internet and the USA, though.
I am a wounded us army vet and I will always have pride in my county my dad fought in nam and both my granddad's fought in ww2 and I don't care what any one says I will always love this country and also am voting for trump got a problem with that bring it on
Ohhhh, where?
But yeah like most here, gotta fully agree with this whole thing, the whole "Racial Guilt" thing is just BS, you can only be held accountable for your own actions, no others. And overall, just a spot on POV that more people need to have, and I am way to exhausted from work to really go more into this stuff.
4108499 Same, the only good thing about those things was it got me out of other equally boring classes. I just read through them. Combo of the above, plus all the rallies ever cared about was the sports teams and I gave not one buck about sports.
4108519 Huh, well said, gotta agree with this.
Which is the same thing I blame while I respond to one of your "dangerous" blogs. At least I assume you consider this blog a dangerous one.
I could take the time to give some thought on all the things you said (which would make this a long reply) about pretty much everything in this blog, but my week has been a weird mixture of really good and terribly awful so I'll keep this brief. Most of what you talk about, I agree with and even if I didn't I have come to find that with blogs like these, while I hardly ever respond to them, I respect you a little more for giving your thoughts on the subjects.
I don't know about anyone else, but I could really use a new pony episode right about now.
ahh, this. I non't need to read most of it to understand what your talking about. So ya, I agree. It's fine to have some pride in your group, just don't be blind to bad parts. The problem starts when you internalize the accomplishments or the shame of your in group. I can go into it more, but it's going to take too long to properly explain it all, of which I don't feel like doing.
All I will say is this; Stop and try to see things from a different perspective, if what your doing would be considered bigoted if done by a person different from you, then what your doing is bigoted. Or "How would you like it, if that was done to you."
4109095
<salutes> God bless you, kkat's father, and all members of our armed forces of the USA
Sounds like a good way to live one's life.
Now this is a message I think most can take to heart, often we let our pride or shame for whatever were part of rule our way of thinking, I don't believe that anyone should be shame or take pride just being part of a group unless your actions say otherwise. As seen before pride or shame in your group when taken to it's extreme can be damaging.
4109095 As 4109149 said, thank you and God bless you for your service to this country.
I don't "take pride" in our military because it is those who serve and have served in our armed forces who have earned pride in our military, not me. But I absolutely support, respect and admire those who give part of their lives to protect our way of life. For what little it is worth, I stand behind them.
Admittedly, this is a fundamental reason why I cannot share in your choice. Donald Trump has denigrated one of our war heroes. He has shown severe disrespect for our military and advocated war crimes. I cannot in good conscience take part in putting a man like that in charge of our military. But I respect your decision even if I cannot agree with it.
4108877
Our manager attempted suicide. A couple days later, while she was still being held by the hospital on suicide watch, the company's owners informed her that she was terminated because "her personal issues were interfering with her ability to perform her job."
The funny thing about high school, I thought they were called "prep rallies" until several years after I left. I mean, honestly, who else would care about them? I also never did figure out what the hell "Prom" or "Homecoming" were, besides arbitrarily overrated dances(which was actually all of them, but those two in particular really stood out). Yes, I know I could google/wiki that shit, but I didn't care to then, I'm not going to now.
4108907
Kek
we both know what it really means here:
Just kidding, though. No offense taken.
I can't disagree with you on this one.
Sorta same here.
However, I have got the impression that many people in USA (at least those that are politically active) seem to be quite divided on whether your statement is true or not, and there appears to be no consensus. How close is my impression to the reality?
I'd also like to add "populism". His statements, while quite bombastic, and frankly barely (if actually) acceptable, seem to have found a fertile ground somewhere. I'm not sure he could have gone on like that without at least partially using this technique.
I also think he managed to find quite good campaign managers. This video, while quite primitive, is a pretty well done political propaganda, from my amateurish POV: short, precise and no convolutions. AFAIK, this kind of stuff works really well.
Truth be told, though, I really didn't expect him to win the nomination.
Truth be told, I doubt that he would do that even if he were to win the election. Talking the talk and walking the walk are two dfferent things; he was just pandering to his audience and trolling the establishment, if you ask me.
I do think she is a shrewd politician; but AFAIK, she is not without controversies herself. And her hawkish rhetoric certainly did not make her more liked in Russia. But I have to admit that she is still more predictable to some extent than Trump is. Trump may have made favourable comments of us, but again, I think this was trolling, and he is too much of a wild card.
No problem; mostly I mentioned Trump because mainstream media tend to pounce on Trump for him saying more favourable things on Putin than they do, and they mostly boil it down to "Trump said he likes Putin, booooo, Putin is evil, booooo, Putin annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine and destroys moderate opposition in Syria and supports the bloody dictator Assad, BOOOOOOO, Trump is as evil as Putin is, BOOOOOOO!" They like comparing Trump to Putin to make him look kinda evil, saying they're two apples of the same tree. Of course, this annoys me, because all this reads as Soviet state propaganda, except white being called black and black being called white. The similarity between them that I do believe to exist is in them responding to the social demand for re-novation of the country, and gaining popularity from it. The circumstances are different, of course, but I think that the underlying mechanism behind this similarity is the same or differs very slightly.
Oligarchs and crime lords certainly were fine, and those that survived - still are more comfortable than common folk. And there were those like Mikhail Kasyanov or Boris Nemtsov who were in higher echelons of government in the 90s and whom people blame (not without reason) along with other higher-ups of that era along with Yeltsin for their own and their country's impoverishment. Which is also why these figures do not gain that much popularity among electorate, and why good number of people, including those I know, refuse to think of Nemtsov as a "martyr of Putin's regime" and most likely would not care even if he was killed on Putin's or someone else's orders. In their eyes, he bears responsibility for throwing our country into shit in 1998 and was not worth any tears to shed.
Yep, I agree there with you. "Great" is definitely subjective.
Kat for prez, anybody?
4109876
Whoa, shit! Really? Holy fuck... Is she okay now, if you don't mind my asking? I mean... wow. Like... I get she wasn't the greatest person or what have, and I doubt she was much of a joy to work with, but jeez... Also, and far be it from my good self to call into question your wage slavers business practice or human resource management, but telling a bed ridden person in a decidedly emotionally fragile state that she's now without means of gainful employ in the wake of a mounting stack of bills... this is what my people refer to as "a dick move." I get that one has to protect ones brand and all that, but sheesh... and don't they run a place that knows about psychology, or at least makes it a part of said business?
4109895
I didn't mention this before, but a lot of this also stems from "this shit right here is the greatest time of your life" That's a lie. If a person peaks at high school, then their not having much of a life, are they?
Ugh, politics. It's become a "lesser of two evils" choice over the past few elections, exceedingly so this time around.
Pep rallies? What are those? Nah, just yankin' ya. Whenever I had a choice of whether to participate in them or sit them out in school, I always chose to sit them out, catching up on studying, finishing homework early and working on my drawing skills were more important to me than pep rallies I never went to the games they were trying to hype up.
I'll go ahead and toss in that I, too, lacked school spirit for much the same reasons. By the time I got to high school my family had moved all over and homeschooled me. The idea of school spirit was an alien one, and a silly one at that given that I had no history tied to the school(s) I attended. And for college...I looked at college purely as a way to get a degree and learn a skill that'd be applicable in the workplace. As a way to get a decent job, in other words. I couldn't have cared less if our college had even had a sports team. (On second thought, not having a sports team might've helped. Money could have been spent otherwise.)
Ehhh, I just Used Pep Rallies to either Sleep or read.
Well said as always.
The closest I get to nationalism is taking pride in values the USA supposedly represents or supposedly did represent at some time, and recognizing when it does not live up to those ideals.
So far as school pride goes, it always felt rather hallow and fake to me to try to drum up enthusiasm for whatever sport event or whatnot was happening when there clearly wasn't a such a sense of togetherness at any of my schools.
As far as the fandom goes I've seen countless amazing works and many good people, but every group has it's jerks and this one is no exception. I don't really understand why anyone would leave the fandom over what seems like it would be a standard vocal minority.
The most pride I can really take from being a brony is that trying the show and becoming one way back when required me to reconsider some preconceptions of what a "little girl's show" could be.
hi hi
Group membership and self-identity are complicated things. Responsibility is a complicated thing.
If you take any two people, you will inevitably find at least one group that they both belong to. (Probably many more than one.) Whether it is a group that they've chosen to belong to or whether it is a group that is defined by some pre-existing trait, whether it is a group that they personally identify with or not, or whether it is a group that informs their actions or is a group they're not even aware of, or some combination of any of the above, people have things in common.
To make matters even more complicated, some groups share the same name, even when they're not the same. Yes, sometimes they are related somehow, but groups have subgroups, and sometimes two similar groups will form independently of each other.
Take human beings in general, for example. Philosophers have pondered for ages the question of: "what makes us human?" There are lots of different answers, and none of them are fully satisfying. Some have said that being human means being smart enough to use tools, but there are other animals out there that use tools. Some have said that being human means being able to use language, but there have been people who never learned how to speak, and there are now computers that can use language almost indistinguishably. Some have said that being human is a matter of our genetic code, but some people with birth defects are considered human even though they have drastic genetic differences. Usually, people just compare someone to a visual template and say close enough, walking upright, two arms, two legs, not too hairy, etc. because there isn't enough time when you're passing someone on the street to check anything else.
Oftentimes, a human may fit into all of those groups neatly and it makes sense for everyone when they do, but sometimes they don't. It is the same with any other kind of large group. But just because someone is a part of a group, does not mean that they have to identify with it.
A person can pay their taxes, vote, and volunteer as a public servant, and still say "No, I am not a patriot."
Someone who believes in a deity, when asked "who are you?" might instead say, "I'm a neurosurgeon who loves golf and cats." And conversely, someone who has never picked up a football in their life might respond, "I'm a Denver Bronco, through and through."
I don't think it makes sense to single someone out because they are part of a group or not part of a group, to demand that someone denounce a member of the group when an extremist runs over a crowd, when a legitimate member of their government drops bombs on a hospital, or kills someone because of the color of their skin. I would argue it makes sense to ask everyone to focus on those groups of people who are dying though.
I also would not ask someone to stay in an abusive relationship, or immediately seek out a different relationship after leaving the first, on account of the fact that the majority of relationships are good and admirable. The group "in a relationship," is a huge and very popular group, but like all large groups, it is not uniform.
As for responsibility, I definitely wouldn't ask someone who was abusive in a relationship to take responsibility and provide counseling for their partner, and I wouldn't ask their partner to accept an offer even if it was given. I would argue that, in fact, most of the time the person with the responsibility to improve or repair something is not directly the person who damaged it in the first place.
Firefighters aren't responsible for causing the fires, but they are responsible for putting them out. Rescue workers aren't responsible for the tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and earthquakes that trap people under rubble, but they have chosen to be responsible for digging them out.
When someone doesn't watch where they're driving, runs a red light, and hits another car; it is true that if the other car had not entered the intersection, in a purely cause-and-effect sense, there would not have been an accident, but that car had the right of way, and is still not responsible. Rather than the careless driver, it is probably the paramedics who are responsible for providing medical attention, and the careless driver's insurance company that is likely responsible for directly footing the bill, even if the policy was only picked up a day ago.
Guilt is not the only thing that drives people act.
I thought this might be relevant to this discussion. We may not always agree, and in these days of indentity politics and race baiting and the university set demanding college be a home, not a place of learning, remember my fellow Americans, at the end of the day, we only have each other, so lets lean on each other and do what we can. And for all our mistakes as a nation, something as silly as an indentation should never stop us from doing good in our country, whatever our politics.
4109876 with all due respect, Hillary Clinton has done much worse than trump, she degrades the military, allowed our troops to be killed with no reinforcements, allowed Benghazi to happen, allowed privet emales to get into terrorist hands, and on top of that, made us loss millions of jobs, all Donald is is talk but Hillary has screwed up a bunch of stuff and let thousands die, i believe in national pride and being proud for helping out many counterys, i dont support Obama with the drones or killing the rebels that fight isis but i have had family die in services, i had somebody fight at pearl harbor, and i have had friends that went into the service and still are, and i also think its good to have school pride, also the show teaches stuff like that is good, for moral and self confidence
4114734 As before, I am thankful for your service, and the service of all members of our armed forces, past and present. I disagree on some points, agree on others. However, you are making an assumption that you shouldn't be making.
If you feel the need to discuss this further, take it to PMs.
4109914 My main issue here is that there's basically no doubt that Trump is in this race for nothing beyond his own personal gain. Yes, he has the best political advisers his money could buy, but even Hitler ran a good campaign when he took over, doesn't make his intentions at the time or actions after any better. Trump brings up a negative image of modern-day America and compares it with nostalgia, he doesn't include all the problems we faced during the fifties, like segregated neighborhoods and racial fights that got way out of control at times (where my mom was from at least). All Trump has to his name is a trail of fraud, embezzlement, lawsuits, bankruptcy, and gaming the system for cash. He's famous for these two words "You're fired." He's laid off thousands if not tens or hundreds of thousands of workers and pocketed the business profits multiple times. A lot of people hate Trump on both sides, but a good number can't stand the alternative. Our nation's actually in the middle of recovering from the recession, unemployment's the lowest it's been in years, we've got municipal, centralized health care. But of course on the opposite side of the aisle almost everything Democrats accomplish is demonized in whatever way they can think of. This includes the health care bill, which they want to get rid of entirely.
4124193
That's what always happens in politics - paint your opponent black.
And getting rid of health care bill? Seriously?
4108532
I... wasn't able to do that.
However, I did try to sleep on the bleachers to no success.