Crucial Decision for Dexter's Lab Equestria (Need your help) · 2:39am Apr 27th, 2015
Greetings readers,
Be Warned: Spoilers (They'll be minor, if any, but none the less you have been warned.)
As the title suggests, I've come to a decision making point in the story arch for DLE. I couldnt decide which way to go, even though I am already leaning in one direction, so I thought I'd ask the readers. (Don't worry, your opinions can still have an effect since I've hardly begun writing the next chapter.)
Judging from the comments, some of you have guessed correctly that Dexter will be using his time machine. Considering how time travel is used often in the Dexter's Lab cartoon, I felt it needed to make an appearance if I wanted to stay true to the themes of Dexter's show. However, I wanted Dexter to walk away from the situation feeling like he had been hit by a freight train. I wanted it to 'slap' him on the face and so he starts taking what the ponies have to say more seriously.
So the question remains, what is Dexter going to encounter and interact with in the past? Will he find a retelling of what happens in the mlp series exactly (I'm sure you've already watched Luna's banishment on youtube.) Or should I change the events of the past (so they are basically the same in the long run) but actually be darker and more detailed? It feels like Luna turned into nightmare moon overnight (haha pun), so I feel my story is/will be lacking in detail.
For example, from what I saw Luna had the moon raised for all of 10 minutes before she got banished, and really didn't do much else. And no one else other than celestia saw her as nightmare moon. You cant say luna tried to kill celestia because the blast that hit sunbutt merely stunned her for a few moments, during which Luna left her alone. - All of which is NOT something which justifies a THOUSAND YEAR prison sentence. And Celestia really didn't do much in the way of trying to 'convince' Luna to stop. (I could go on and on, etc.) -But needless to say, Dexter would react skeptically. The first thing he would say to Nightmare Moon would be "From your reputation, I thought you'd be taller." -It's just not the freight train I need it to be in order to give Dexter that 'swift kick in the rump.'
So what do you guys think? Do you think it is critical to keep the mlp cannon the way it is, or can I make it essentially the same thing but darker and more detailed?
I only skimmed, cause spoilers, but I read the final sentence. Do what you feel will work for the story :) make it canon, fine, make it YOUR canon fine too. I know that's not really an answer, but do whatever you feel will work best for the story tone.
Besides, it's not like Dexter's Lab didn't have a fair share of dark moments in it. HINT HINT
I am of the opinion that overwriting canon is OK, so long as a note is added stating you did so.
Altering it will help the story based on your post. Many people object to contradicting canon, which I find irritating, but so long as you put a note stating the change it should be fine.
Go for it!
Also, Can't wait for update.
I think it could be good if you rewrite it, it's your version after all and also, Dexter can see a reason as for why is best that he don't try anything with the alicorns, after all if he watch it and it's dark, Dexter could very well be prudent.
More detail, of course. That's what fanfiction is for.
Nah, it ain't critical to keep it strictly canon. I vote for darker and more detailed!
Darker and more detailed.
I'd would say mack it so dark the the eternal night looked good in comparison but it's up to you
3020419 I second this my own headcanon has the events as slightly darker, including a war between Luna and Celestia prior to the banishment
I got the impression from that the writers were trying to cram in a half-episode+'s worth of material into 3 minutes, and the scene suffered as a result. Yes, by all means, expand on it.
Darker and more detailed. Stick with what what we know in canon and add onto it. There's a lot we DON'T KNOW about the Nightmare Moon incident and any other major fight too. Most likely what we saw in the show was the CLIMAX of the Nightmare Moon incident. Luna and Celestia may have been fighting for awhile after Luna basically snapped from the jealousy and the end result of the final moments of that fight was Luna becoming Nightmare Moon and being banished. More than likely nopony died during the fight but Solar and Lunar guards were pulled into the fight due to loyalties regardless of whether they wanted to fight each other or not especially if it was against a friend due to princess' orders and were at least badly hurt, nothing that they couldn't heal from given afterwards more enemies would show up within the 1000 year gap. it would be interesting to also see how many of the ponies reacted during the fight if they heard about it like the Manticore friend of Luna and Celestia's seeing how they can understand him or the allies they made over the years provided by that point in time they were still among the living like the 3 rulers who fighting brought the wendigoes originally seeing how they were friends with the princesses after they were coronated.
MartianMan98's idea is also fitting to the story. Would make sense too as jealousy could actually lead to insanity and rage. Trying to fight off the nightmares and ending up becoming the very thing you set out to stop, quite the clever and understandable plot twist. Plus more than likely Celestia was hoping the elements would fix Luna and free her of the darkness but due to being unable to use their full power as 6 were required, the elements ended up banishing her and disconnecting both of their links to the elements in a way. Luna's for becoming Nightmare Moon and Celestia for turning on her sister and using them against her not realizing what would happen.
Being darker and changing up the story a bit gives you more wiggle room to change the stuff up, you know? And this allows you to be more detailed in ways that can benefit your story by setting up particular events that may end up being important down the line.
I like the thought where Luna, being the caring person she is, tried to end the nightmares of her subjects in Equestria's early and more violent days. The more she fought these nightmares, the more they became a part of her identity, and eventually she was corrupted. She became a manifestation of what her subjects feared. She also ended up attacking her sister, not in a fit of rage or jealousy, but due to her insanity shattering her mind as a result of the darkness she hosted.
Celly-belly used the Elements that she hardly understood, let alone could properly control, and blasted Little Lulu, banishing her to the moon. Since Celly-belly couldn't properly control the Elements, they randomly doled out a punishment for the hapless blue victim they were pointed at: a thousand years dungeon-- I mean on the moon. That's the headcanon I like to think of.
Just thought of this you should have a on going gag with dr whooves if you are doing time travel
darker and more detailed
i think is better you rework it so the whole lunar rebellion happened and the moon stayed up until luna was defeated and banished, maybe making it last around 10 months instead of 10 mins
Honestly, if you want to hit Dexter Like a Freight Train, take a page from Powerpuff Girls Z, the Comic. Mandark, his only rival is dead, he is dealing with survivors guilt and dealing with Mandark's sister who is pretty sure the reason her brother is dead is The boy she has a crush on, With His own Sister being Dead because of him.
So Yes. Please. Go DARK. Make him See the horror of the past that has been sugar coated. Let him be Vulnerable to her temptations. Make it Difficult and Harrowing for the petulant child who rejects the world for what it is, based on his old worlds rules.
"You can never have too many details." - Pretty Much Every Fuckin' Language Arts Teacher Since The Beginning of School.
dark as a hole in space-time
I think the show really screwed up when portraying that scene. As you said, it lacks all of the impact it was supposed to have.
Change it. I'm not keeping that in ANY of my stories.
I don't really have a preference to be honest. Just do what you think would benefit the overall story the most.
That being said, time travel is tricky stuff. Just be careful not to create a time paradox!
Also destroy the shagohod when you can get around to it.
I like the idea of it being detailed and darker.
It could stand to be darker. I agree with you on the unjustifiable thousand-year banishment.
You have a singular opportunity to make this hilarious. According to 1 theory of time travel any actions that a time traveler takes in the past were destined to happen and therefore he creates the future he lives in. For example guy goes back in time to prevent letter from being accidentally sent but by going into the past he causes it to be sent. For more examples see red vs blue and Artemis fowl.
The way that this applies to you is that the common head canon assumes that the elements of harmony dictated the length that Luna was banished but it could be that it's because dexter messed with the past. And this could still have some emotional weight of dexter is blindsided by the fact that he imprisoned someone for 1000 years for a minor crime and gets a sense of his on limitations along with a dose if humility.
In my mind, when Luna turned in the show it seemed to be the final flash point in the canon. They never showed the events leading up to that moment, so they're completely open to interpretation. I like what Silly Filly Studios did with the foreshadowing of Nightmare Moon (aka NMM) with their take on the fight between Sombra and the Royal Pony Sisters. I could see that being the beginning of Luna's eventual total corruption and change into NMM.
I think the combination of many things caused Luna to turn.
Here's the foreshadowing I'm talking about:
I was gonna put my two cents in, but it looks like the tip jar is already full of what I was gonna say. So yah go ahead and make it darker I guess.
In the IBW MLP comics ( #17) there was a brief flash back of Celestia and Starwirl in wich is said by Celestia :
and Starwirl respond:
after that Celestia support Starwirl with the Proyect , end up being a portal ( prototype ) that can reach in parallel dimension (at random) , just in the first test they almost end up eaten for a dinosaur!
. after that is never directly stated ( but implicated ) that between Celestia lack of attention helping Starwirl (going with him exploring alternates Equestrias and reverse engineering knowlege) and her "normal" work was the reason why Luna reach a "no return point" ( how much time it take was never stated but there's a fair assumption that was a build up of several years)
Probably this sound like fic story ,but is really from a official comic, however have in mind that comic cannon and show cannon are a arguable theme that not everyone agree, so is your desicion use those building blocks or make your owns (or both)
REMAKE IT COMPLETELY!
You're going to have to make it yourself to have it make sense!
Definitely darker and more detailed. What canon hints we got right up to a certain episode indicated it was far more than just a 10 minute tantrum.
The tidbit about the "Mare of Shadows" being loose in the "Castle of the Pony Sisters" (Castle Harmony) after being left behind when Luna was banished would also indicate Sombra did something to her before his own banishment...
Have him go back to the time period of Discord's rule, a meaner Discord who Dexter's science will have no basis to understand or means to defend against. Discord could lay down the law and explain things the way they such that Dexter wouldn't be able to claim it as Pony propaganda and Discord could play 'mind games/'the long con' as we saw with those seeds in the season 4 opener.
The show did a shit job of telling Luna's fall. You need to make you own story, one that is darker( but not too dark) and much more detailed and fleshed out. Make the battle last weeks if not a couple months. Turn it into a war of sun and moon. Maybe Nightmare Moon can't keep the moon up for long with Celestia trying to bring the day and vice versa. Thus the world gets irregular day and night cycles and the land suffers. Have Celestia try repeatedly to purify Luna, but Nightmare Moon can use Luna's connection to the Elements to form a counter spell, thus causing Celestia to fail. And after so long Celestia is eventually forced to banish Nightmare Moon( who is caught off guard because she was expecting a purification spell), and the Elements, which are mildly intelligent but only just, see this as a betrayal and severe their connection to the Sisters and turn to stone. And Dexter's time machine has a spectator mode which allows him to be slightly out of phase with time and space. He can view an event in time and not interfere with it unless he choses. I see it as a bubble he sits in that can he move around and he can fast forward or pause or rewind time( relatively speaking).
Does Dexter already accept that Celestia and Luna are that old? That is not normal, even for Dexter.
Seeing them alive 1000 years ago is going to suprise him.
3020448 pls no
Oh, heavens, yes.....make it dark. Seeing how dangerous the world actually is should give the little fool some much-needed humility. That's what always got him in the end, really. Dee Dee was just a means to an end because a really smart person would idiot-proof his supertoys, not build in a big, red autodestruct button because he doesn't understand how people think and behave.
Definitely darker and edgier. While Nightmare Moon wasn't around all that long, Luna being corrupted is a thing that could have been going on for quite some time, culminating in her transformation which was the final nail in the coffin.
I imagine it as a sort of montage with Dexter jumping through a preplanned route done by the computer in order to show Dexter key events; the whole trip showing Dexter Luna's corruption, her futile attempt at fighting said corruption (because lets be honest here, tragic Luna backstory is best Luna backstory.) with the whole thing ending up in the big climactic battle.
If you really want Dexter to get his flank kicked, then you can have Twilight discover him during her vision of the past. Alternatively, you can give him nightmares about Luna/NMM doing evil things to him, which leads Luna/modern to him, wherein she receives a trigger of her Luna/NMM days and recognizes Dexter.
3020845 This right here is exactly what needs to happen...
well not exactly but you get the point I'm all for the whole darker and more detailed route
because that whole scene with NMM fighting sunbutt was pretty pathetic "Oh no my sister hit me with magic that hurt a bit and left the moon up for like a few more minuets, better banish herto the moon for a thousand years"
3020662 Oh yes. The Big D having his little fun would surely set our little boy genius straight.
He'd probably try to kill D when back on standard time, but stil.
3020791 nothing big just have him see him when he time travels but it's up to renegadealias
Why Luna's banishment? Why not elsewhen? If you want dark, the Crystal Empire under Sombra would be a good destination. If you want hopeless, then the three pony tribes at war with each other, under the Windigoes, would make a suitable target. And if you really want to put Dexter through the wringer, have him turn up in the Discordian era - Discord will give that hit-in-the-face-with-a-freight-train feeling like nothing else will. Possibly at the same time as one of Celestia and Luna's less successful attempts to stop him, if you want to include ponies throwing around a lot of power...
3020973 No, it's been done before and it adds nothing, the only thing a Doctor Who reference/spot does is disconnect you from the story.
I ask that it be made darker and more detailed.
You could make him arrive before Luna's transformation in Nightmare moon, like some days or weeks before it, and so he'd analyze Luna's psychological sorrow that lead her to become nightmare moon.
So you could keep it canon, but add more details
Dex could be like: "oh i knew it I knew it! Nightmare Moon never existed!!!"
then...when the night of the banishment comes...
"OH HORSEAPPLES!"
3020845 I agree this compromise between canon and more details is exactly what i thought
compliments
I prefer the darker, more detailed one. But it's up to you, really.
By all means make it darker if you feel that it would help Dexter understand that what he is tat in school is a rose tinted version of what actually append. I know that it is a given that Dexter will interfere with the events of the time line. But I think it would be best if he gets gradually invested in the crises and change from contempt to the ponies and princess to actual sympathize with them or worst caring for them. Dexter's greatest flaw is his arrogance and screwing up with the time line because of that would be a great way for him to star opening up to them, or stop using that prime detective bullshit as an excuse to distance him self from them.
In my opinion Dex should have "The Talk" with Nightmare Moon, that shall open his eyes. Then he return to original timeline and there fun start, because Luna start remember talk as Nightmare with Dex.
Here's the thing, the choice of making the story of MLP work with Dexter as it stands, you would have to make him a passive character, or one who sits on the sidelines while the true action goes on.
While this is a simple and easy method to write a story, it really does not incite character growth.
To make your own backstory, that involves a lot of work. However, if done well, then it gives all the characters major development, and allows Dexter to be an active character, enforcing change rather than following it.
If you want help with backstory ideas, don't hesitate to drop a PM my way. I'll help the best that I can, and I'm sure the same could be said for many others on this site.
This is your story, so it is ultimately your decision. That being said, while you can make it darker and more detailed, the darker tag shouldn't equal a high death-toll. You could have Dexter travel to various points where he witnesses Luna's transformation into Nightmare Moon. For example, he shoots too far in the past and sees Luna before the thoughts of jealously took hold of her and then keeps going forward to see more and more of Luna when those thoughts have taken hold. You could have Celestia trying to reason with Luna/Nightmare Moon to have the day and night cycles returned to normal only to get yelled at and violently knocked back. As for the fight scene, you could make it more detailed by having the fight go from place to place in the castle with Luna/Nightmare Moon fighting Celestia, the Sun Guard and some of the Night Guard. She would take out the guards and then go for Celestia. Again, I don't have a problem with darker and more detailed, I just don't think we need to see a lot of death in said darker version. After all, we don't really know if Luna/Nightmare Moon was planning to kill Celestia at all or if she just wanted her to submit to her way of doing things; Luna did just want ponies to adore her and her night as much as they did Celestia and her day. Finally, Equestria never felt like a world where killing was the first thought on anyone's mind. With all the villains that have been in the show, none of them have had a desire to kill anyone nor did they believe they had to in order to achieve their goal. Yes, I know the show was written for children, but I think that even if you put them in a darker version of the show you could still get the same story with them without resorting to killing.
Yes, absolutely. Mythos building is the purpose of fanfics. Flesh out the story, add details and if you manage to fit in a couple of wham reveals then that's perfect.
But that doesn't mean the story needs an apocalyptic death-toll. Go dark but not grimdark
As an example of dark but not grimdark, how about integrating this little piece of fanon?
https://youtu.be/jW5n3k2VgZE
Luna/NMM start out with small acts to force worship then it escalates: a 12 hour day/night cycle during the whole year; then a longer night all year long; then a solar eclipse every day and finally stealing every firstborn to raise it as a worshiper of the night. That's plenty dark and
but still does not go full grimdark with oceans of blood and mountains of skulls.
The child-stealing even fits with the Nightmare Night legend of her eating children!
I say expand on it--it'd work best if Dexter's reality check was a full-on guy punch.
There is no stopping Dexter from going back into the past, as a matter of fact... What if he did something that made Luna within Nightmare Moon feel regret while he engages against Nightmare moon, which in turn leads to the Mane 6 to allow using the Elements of Harmony to save Luna? That could set up a scenario where Luna's return was possibly destined by Dexter's time travel, and that Dexter never knew that he was a large part of Luna's redemption.
Just a strong Idea of thought. FYI.
EDIT: As a consequence of traveling through time though, Luna will be very aware of the same colt who saw her before, which eventually lead her to realize that Dexter has a Laboratory. However, knowing that he was a large part of redeeming her, she would definitely promise Dexter to keep his laboratory a secret, even from Twilight and Celestia, knowing that he has a large part into dealing with the changlings or possibly finding a way to help them if he gave them a chance(A.K.A. Love Generation Machine).
3020989 fine