Worldbuilding V: Do Ponies Eat Meat? · 1:24am Sep 16th, 2014
Do ponies eat meat?
Okay, let me back up here a little bit and define the terms. First, I'm generally defining meat as the flesh of an animal. That's going to get a little fuzzy later on, but we can all agree that a cow is made of meat and a rock isn't.
This is also not a “will they if they're starving?” type of question, nor a “can they be tricked?” question. That's a different subject, and all I can say with authority is that people will do a lot of things when they're starving they might not if they weren't.
I'm also not going to resort to vague trickery and point to an image which has been manipulated in some way as proof, or one which is unclear. I am going to rely on what the ponies are unmistakably doing, saying, or using.
Lastly, I can't give a clear answer. I don't have special access to Lauren Faust, or any of the other show-writers. For all I know, the Season 5 opener is going to blow this whole blog post out of the water. This is my opinion; take it or leave it.
Let's start out with IRL horses. They will eat meat if it's offered to them—I have several friends who have horses and who have made the mistake of leaving their lunch where the horse can get it. This behavior is of course not unique to horses; most animals who are accustomed to people will eat people food if they get the chance, whether or not it's good for them.
I have seen a video, which has since been taken down, of a horse actively pursuing, killing, and consuming baby birds. That's hardly a normal behavior, of course—horses are not very good predators—but it does suggest that a horse can learn to hunt, and apparently the first bird tasted good enough that the horse felt the need to go back for seconds and thirds.
I have also heard that the Mongols fed their horses a meat diet. This strikes me as very unlikely; a horse's digestive system is not really set up to handle a diet of meat. Perhaps if you fed it slowly increasing quantites, it might be okay . . . I know of no scientific studies which provide an answer. I strongly suspect all you'd get is a very sick horse. For all I know, there could have been a small basis in truth—perhaps the Mongols gave their horses meat snacks. I don't know, but if I ever meet Genghis Khan, I'll ask him. Some people even give their horses beer.
You (and me) can eat grass, and it won't do any harm. Should we attempt to subsist solely on grass . . . it won't end well.
Now, we have one advantage over our ancestors. We've got supermarkets and fast-food restaurants. That means that we don't have to chase down a mammoth when we want dinner, we don't have to worry about starving to death in the winter, etc. Naturally, food companies offer human treats which aren't particularly good for us, and if we're so inclined, we can survive (for a while) on a diet of nothing but Snickers bars and Mountain Dew. Eventually, of course, that's going to catch up to us, because the human body isn't built to handle that.
I only bring this up because that's the same level of technology that the ponies have. They don't have to subsist on whatever grasses or bushes are in season; they can go to Sugarcube Corner and live on a steady diet of muffins. Since we haven't seen an episode yet where ponies are currently starving to death in the winter time, or suffering from vitamin deficiencies, we'll assume that they have the problem of food storage for the off-season handled.
Finally, I have one more very important point to make. For humans, it is possible to survive on a vegan diet (no meat, no products from animals [eggs, milk, cheese, etc.]) with no adverse health effects. You need to eat the right things—but the same holds true of a 'normal' balanced diet. Yes, it's easier now than it was in ye olden times, since we generally have good access to a wide variety of foods, but even in ye olden times, certain common deficiencies were known, and means were put in place to prevent them (citrus fruits aboard ships to prevent scurvy, for example). I am going to assume that the ponies know what they need in their diet and make sure it's available.
Which brings me back to my original topic. Do ponies eat meat?
We have an instructor (Carl, from CTI), who covers the employer logo on his shirt whenever he wants to share with us something he believes, rather than what the company has told him to say. Whenever I say “I personally believe,” that's me covering the logo on my shirt. It's a statement which fits with my headcanon, but not necessarily with that of the show.
It's popular fanon that pegasi eat fish, so I'm going to start with that. I personally believe that they do. Not because they have to, but because it's a tradition. I personally believe that it is more prevalent in coastal communities, and isolated island (or cloudland?) communities in the water have made a tradition of it. Over the years, it's spread beyond them, to become an Equestria-wide tradition.
I offer as evidence the sheer number of fishing poles we've seen used in episodes, and the fact that Magnum (now Hondo Flanks [damn you Hasbro]) is using one to fish with in one episode.
We don't have to accept that as absolute evidence, of course. He could be fishing for something other than fish—his wedding ring, seaweed, old tires—and the 'bait' next to him might be a snack. After all, in the Sisterhooves Social epsiode, he and his wife ate food which looked much the same. Maybe they like their breakfast cajun-style.
A fishing pole might be a handy tool for other things—offhand, I can't think of what, but surely it has other uses.
For me, what tips the scale is Fluttershy offering fish to her ferrets.
I'm going to take a step back here, and ask again, “What is meat?” Is a cow meat? Would you eat one? How about a pig? A horse? Cat?
Find a friend who's a vegetarian, and ask him if anyone's ever asked him—after he stated that he was a vegetarian—if he ate fish. I think you'll be surprised by the answer.
We can eat pretty much any kind of meat. Some of us have religious or cultural beliefs which more narrowly define what we may or may not eat, but to our bodies, a cat is the same as a cow.
So, why do I think that Fluttershy offering fish to her ferrets is significant?
Several of the ponies have pets which are carnivorous. Dogs are, cats are, alligators are, some or all tortoises are (I'm not going to embarrass myself by making a specific statement on that), and owls are. Only Fluttershy has a pet who's a herbivore. We can assume that their respective owners know that. We can assume that their respective owners feed them an appropriate diet.
Fluttershy had no problem feeding fish to her ferrets, and yet—and yet! Spike believed that the sight of a disemboweled mouse would so horrify Twilight that she'd send Owlicious away. Perhaps if he'd had the guts to disembowel a real mouse, that might have worked.
Here's why. I personally think that the ponies are speciesist (and why shouldn't they be? They control the freaking sun! No other species can do that). As a result, they would arrange the animal kingdom in a manner which suits them. While we separate our domesticated animals into food and friend—and do the same with wild animals, to an extent—they have their own classifications.
I personally think that their dividing line is whether it has fur or not. Eating a rabbit would be a horrific act; baking worms into cupcakes, not so much. Only a very disturbed pony would even consider killing a rat, but bees are fair game. And while eating the flesh of a cow is anathema to the ponies, fish don't have fur, so it's all good.
(except the fur-bearing trout, which a pony would never eat)
Now to deflect some criticism—and raise some more points.
♣ Yes, in one episode, Pinkie said that they were “all vegetarian.”
Did you talk to your vegetarian friend?
♣ Pinkie also mentioned a hot-dog eating contest.
Hot dogs aren't always made out of meat. Traditionally, though. . . .
♣ Why does Applejack keep pigs?
Seriously, what do they produce that you can get without killing them?
♣It's been said that without a meat diet, our brains wouldn't have developed.
Well, we can't do magic. Maybe if we didn't eat meat, we could.
♣ Pegasi can't get enough energy to fly without meat.
There are many species of birds who don't eat meat, and can fly quite well.
♣ What about protein?
IRL horses, timothy hay is a very good source. Not so much for humans.
Well, there you have it. I don't feel that I answered anything by this; I promised I would post it and Celestia knows I crack under pressure. I have a few other ideas in mind about the whole "eating meat" topic, but they're meant as a dramatic moment in Onto the Pony Planet, and so I don't want to get into them here.
To be perfectly honest [covers company logo], one of the reasons I even included the ponies less-than-shocked reaction to meat-eating in OPP was a pushback against the overused 'ermagerd you eat meat' trope that pervaded HiE stories when I started writing mine. Like most things (politics, religion, football teams), when you start looking at it with a lens clouded a particular way, you see what you want.
At the same time, since the only canon evidence I am aware of is that ponies aren't opposed to putting worms in cupcakes or feeding fish to ferrets, your mileage may vary, and I can tell you that I won't feel a moment's regret if I do happen to write a HiE (or PoE, or whatever) where the ponies do take offense to People Eating Tasty Animals. My faithful readers know that I happily change styles like . . . like an appropriate metaphor.
And just you wait until I get around to posting a worldbuilding post about nudity. That's bound to skirt dangerouly close to the boundaries of what we can and cannot blog about.
Do you ever write a blog post and think to yourself, "man, I know I forgot a salient point or two in here," but publish anyway? I've just got this feeling that I . . . what? We're still on? Oh, horseapples...
I have a feeling a large part of why Spike thought a dead mouse would horrify Twilight is because he's a child and often has a very poor grasp of the scale of such things.
And maybe the Apples keep pigs because all those carnivorous-pet owners out there have to buy their treats from somepony...
I've always heard that this isn't quite true. You can survive on a vegan diet, for sure, but I've always been told that vegans tend to get sick more easily, have less energy, etc even when on the best diet one could possibly have as a vegan. One of my brother's former classmates is vegan, actually, but only because the health negatives of being a vegan are outweighed by the negatives of eating animal products (for her).
(She's a unique case with some unique medical...conditions, though. I won't go into detail. She probably wouldn't appreciate that...)
It's so freaking hard to figure out which stuff in MLP is serious and which stuff is just the result of the producers saying
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and rolling their face on the keyboard/vomiting random crap on the storyboard. Evidence of omnivorous ponies, or merely the producers sticking a fishing pony in there because five year-old girls don't overthink things like bronies do?
But then Fluttershy has worked with animals presumably for much of her life, and is thus used to the idea of them eating meat. Twilight and Spike? They're not stupid, of course. They know that owls eat meat, but knowing they do something and actually seeing it are two different things.
I agree on the stupidity of having ponies freak out at the sight of meat, though. Seeing a disembowled mouse? Understandable, I'd be a little freaked out too. Freaking out when they see, say, a steak?
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2458385
Let's just say that I'm not opposed to the idea that the Apple family keeps pigs for the purpose of fattening them up and selling them to somepony (or somegriffon) who might put them to another use. Maybe it isn't time to tell AB just yet, but one day she'll know the truth...
But I thought you were fine as long as you didn't turn it into a clopfic blog post and/or include pictures?
Sea going Pegasi would eat fish, because the dolphins etc can round them up, but might only get vegetation if over rare areas such as Sargasso, but I cant remember the dietry availability of that. Good for fish nursery though. Or they can anchor over coral atols, which are full of plantimals.
As for Pinkie being vegetarian, no way can she be Vegan. I mean, Has Hestor Blumenthal shown how to make cupcakes without eggs as a binding agent, or if soya or coconut milk can be produced by an agrarian society to replace the immense bulk capacity of a cow, even though a goat is twice as effiicient?
I can see it now. Pinkie visiting a seluded country as part of a diplomatic exchange, being told she cant use milk or eggs, and very slowly going Party Of One, untill she goes all Grand Vizier, and ends up making a full party, using Rock Cakes.
Dwarf Rock Cakes.
For some reason, Im now thinking of a desert fortress, meeting Pinkamenas Dessert Canon. As in a hypersonic kinetic penetrator Wedding Cake.
Team Rockets blasting off agaaaaiin.
The specieist thing I partially disagree on due to two points.
One, until Rainbow got impatient, they tried being civil with the dragon they tried to remove whose snoring was causing the smoke.
Secondly, a good percentage of the pets Fluttershy offered to Rainbow were not furred creatures.
As such, I do not think that ponies are especially speciest.
2458389
I'm fairly sure (not a doctor) this isn't true. There are no nutrients that the human body requires which must come from meat. None.
I'm not going to get up on a soapbox and tell you what to eat--that's your choice--but I am not aware of any scientific evidence that suggests that a proper vegan or vegetarian diet is inferior to a proper omnivorous one for humans.
I
That's very true. I think it's either an opportunity for us writers--a chance to come up with a compelling reason for "X but not Y,"--or a reason to pull our hair out. At least the lack of consistency got mocked in one of the comics.
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That's very true. That could be seen as a reflection on humanity--how many of us really know what goes into slaughtering a cow, for example? We might want to see a steak on the grill, but do we want to see it carved off a cow carcass? I personally think the ponies are more pragmatic about those things than Western humans are, but that's just my opinion.
2458410
Yes, but the line on mentioning 'adult' topics has never been firmly drawn. "NSFW" is a pretty all-encompassing category.
When the time comes, though, I'll cloak it in enough euphemism and such that it . . . well, it might not be tasteful, but it'll be sorta SFW.
2458416
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There are lots of plants that would be palatable to pegasi, I would think. If not in the ocean itself, on small islands, etc. I can't imagine the pegasi building a cloud city somewhere where there were no food resources available.
Canon evidence in no way suggests that ponies are vegan, IMHO. Too many examples of eggs, milk, baked goods which require eggs or milk, etc,--and unlike the pigs, a dairy cow at least gives a product which you don't have to kill it to get.
I'm guessing that the Equestrians can eat meat as a supplement to their mostly-vegetarian diets, because real horses can and do, and the Equestrian Ponies are as high on the food chain as they desire to be.
Because their ethos is very much to avoid killing, I would guess that the upper classes mostly avoid meat consumption, as they can easily purchase enough non-meat products to get all the vitamins and proteins they need. What's more, they would rarely see meat products save in processed form.
These are the reasons why the disemboweled mouse might horrify Twilight Sparkle. She's upper-class, idealistic and I doubt she hangs around butcher shops. Of course it would only horrify her a little -- she's very tough-minded. But Spike may have an idealized version of the sensibilities of somepony who is, essentially, his adoptive big sister.
I'm guessing that there is a deliberately-decadent set among the upper classes who openly feast on meat, probably inspired by cosmopolitan contacts with the griffons. And I would also guess that as one goes down the social scale to the lower middle class and lower classes, meat is consumed where available, because they are a lot less picky about their food.
2458417
In the case of the dragon, it makes sense that they'd try to talk to it first--even if he ponies do believe that a dragon is worth less than a pony, it's still bigger and can breathe fire.
As for the pets--there's a difference between being treated as an equal, and being a pet. I'm also cautious using Fluttershy as an example, since the loves all animals except those who she kills to feed other animals.
In the simplest terms, I can see evidence from the show that they don't even always treat fellow equines as equals ['mule' as in insult, shunning Zecora]. It strikes me as natural that they would look down upon other species (are they helping the birds by leading them north and building nests, or are they enabling the birds?)
I guess I personally don't see their world as a perfect paradise (and really, as an author, I can't--because if it were perfect and conflict-free, there would be no stories worth telling). Certainly, from what I see on the show, some things are better in Equestria (more harmony, for one), while others are worse (world-destroying monster of the day, no internet).
2458444
It's not so much about the kinds of nutrients, from what I've heard, it's about the ease of access. (Here's the meet = bigger brains thing) Veganism works fine if you're very specific about what you eat and in what quantities. Again, from what I've heard. But there is certain truth to there being better concentrations of certain nutrients in meat - nutrients that vegans will have to work much harder to acquire. And I'm not talking purchasing, I'm talking digestion.
A couple of articles:
Meat Helped Make Us Human
Veganism Can Be Dangerous (though so can any diet, if not done correctly)
TLDR: I think it's better to eat everything in moderation, rather than gorge on or hard limit anything.
2458389
I've had a vegan classmate who played tennis. He always seemed to be hyped up. He was easily the most energetic and bombastic of us. Also fairly well muscled.
And on the topic of whether going vegan is healthy, I believe the "negatives" are mainly caused by the difficulty in finding the right foods that give you the right nutrition. In fact, if every chemical your body needed was given to you in a slushie, your body couldn't care less. In fact, someone did. (Look up Soylent. Not the murder one.)
2458492
That's an interesting take on it. I don't see it quite the same way.
My opinion is that eating fish and other seafood is the kind of thing that most ponies talk about like you and I might discuss eating chocolate-covered grasshoppers. It's a weird delicacy some places, and maybe if we were brave, we'd try it once.
I also--personally--view sushi the same way. I don't have any problems with the thought of someone eating it, but it's not really something which seems appetizing to me.
Which leads me to having the pony reaction to eating meat run the gamut. In my story, Lyra tried it, knowing full well what it was (more or less); Starlight will cook it without batting an eye--but Diamond Mint would rather not be in the same room as a pork chop, and the smell alone is enough to make Rough Tumble vomit.
2458497 lol I honestly think that most of it, at least in Equestria, is in harmony. And most ponies are not speciest.... but most does not mean all. Case in point, Canterlot.
But, another reason why on the not speciest. Gilda, as well as the griffons in the Equestria Games. And also Iron Will.
None of the above mentioned were treated as lower than them.
I think Zecora was treated as different due to how distant her homeland is compared to the rest. Only the most well learned would have even heard of, let alone seen, a Zebra before. I'm guessing homelands for Griffons and Minotaurs are not as distant as Zebrica.
However, as stated... most does not include all. And there does exist those that look down on others.
Also, 'looking down on', and 'fearing the unknown' are two different things. I don't think ponies, for the most part, look down on other species.... but fearing the unknown? Whole 'nother matter.
2458502
I'm not disagreeing with the statement that--especially to our ancestors--the ability to have meat in our diet was advantageous, and I'm not going to be standing on a soapbox preaching veganism. Yes, there are nutrients which are more readily available to our bodies in meat than other sources, but there is nothing that your body needs that it can't get from a vegan diet. That's not an opinion; that's a medical fact.
Historically, of course, it was more dicey. Even in this modern, enlightened age, I have a friend who's actually had scurvy--I assume she was probably in the jungle when that happened (she's also had dengue fever).
I personally don't like the idea that being omnivorous or carnivorous is a requirement for intelligence, but I do concede that in humanity's case, it certainly played a vital role. In a world filled with magical ponies, though....
EDIT: the real trick would be getting their sodium intake right.
2458510
Yes, that's very much so. But--a bad diet is a bad diet, whether it includes meat or not. If I only ate steak, I'd likely be just as unhealthy as someone who only ate bananas. I might have different symptoms, but I'd still be sick.
One of my friends is using it (or says he is). I'm interested to see what happens.
2458564
RBDash42 is too. He says he's having a jolly good time.
2458553
Y'know...I've been wondering about salt. I'm hoping I haven't shot myself in the foot by making salt a magic dampener. The idea is that it regulates magic...which is why ponies don't want as much as humans. Does that mean they've overcome deficiency by using something else, or have the just grown to not need? Or is it something that just can't be done and now I have a minor, though amusing, plot hole? I have no idea.
And I think I'm thinking too hard about background elements of my story.
2458523
It is worth remembering that we're normally viewing the world through the lens of six ponies who live in the same small town in the shadow of Canterlot, and what they do is not necessarily typical for all of Equestria.
Gilda is a bad example--she wasn't universally loved (more of the opposite, really)--in a way, Gustav is a better example. The Equestria Games, given how much they parallel the Olympics, may not be a good example of how the common pony thinks (after all, nations compete in the Olympics who aren't good examples for the rest of the world--I'm not going to name names here, but I bet everyone can think of an example of 'they're letting X compete?' <sadface>
Don't get me wrong--the canon evidence of their being a Griffon team is very compelling, and shows that the ponies aren't so full of themselves that they let other species compete in their games . . . but we didn't see a mule or donkey or zebra team; there were no dragon competitors, I don't recall a single minotaur....
That is a very good point, and it applies far beyond Equestria.
2458585
Since we're talking a whole 'nother world, there's no need for their biology to require a particular chemical that ours do.
Or, if you want to go with a more 'compatable' view (in case there's a human/pony connection in your story [if you know what I mean]), they could have a far lower tolerance for it than we do. There are any number of nutrients our bodies require which can be damaging or fatal in too high of a dosage (salt's one; water and iron and potassium also come to mind).
There could also be the fear--whether based on actual science or not--of the result. I have friends who won't drink because they're afraid of what they might do if they have a beer or two or ten . . . maybe salt is overhyped among unicorns/alicorns [one overly-salted pizza, and you'll be making out with an odd furless biped. . . . ]. That's the way sex ed class was pitched to us. . . .
Well, ponies eat plenty of animal by-products (eggs, milk, and cheese), and baked good, which are derived at in part from said products. Given that, I would have to assume that ponies are omnivores with cultural inclinations towards vegetarianism.
Lauren Faust herself chipped in on the Apple family's pigs once, and said that her theory was that the pigs traded truffles for room and board.
Personally, in my headcanon I feel that the animals of Equestria can be divided into a couple of different classes along a scale.
There's things like ponies and zebras and diamond dogs, who are capable of speech and who are also "civilized". These creatures are able to build buildings, use tools, form complex social structures, and think about abstract concepts.
There are things like cows and sheep that are capable of speech but who are not civilized. Although they can hold a perfectly reasonable conversation, they just don't "get" a lot of the concepts that civilized creatures are capable of. Set up a town populated by nothing but cows and leave them to their own devices and they'll just wander off and not make anything of what they've been given. Some of these creatures are able to live in association with "civilized" creatures, to mutual benefit of both species. Some "monsters" also fall into this category. It's wrong to murder creatures like this, but at the same time they're not full partners in Equestria and nopony thinks twice about bossing them around when they choose to live on Equestrian land.
Then there's animals that, while unable to speak, are able to comprehend speech fairly well. The various "pet" species we've seen mostly fall into this category. Possibly goats as well, we've never heard them speak. I suspect that killing these sorts of creatures would not be considered murder, but would also be considered barbaric unless there's really pressing need.
Finally, there's the really dumb stuff like fish and lizards and stuff that can't even understand language. These are fine to kill, generally speaking.
2458592 Too true. But, there's another thing to consider. It's distinctly possible that the 'Equestria Games' were used mainly with those that the ponies have developed GOOD relations with.... They're a peaceful nation... almost TOO much so, in fact, to the point where they may not be able to relate well with some more warrior like tribes.
So, though I don't think they look down on other species... I also don't think they've gone out of their way to UNDERSTAND other species.
I don't think the ponies look down on other species. There's many signs to the contrary there. HOWEVER..... have they gone out of their way to try and learn about and study the cultures of other species? That's another matter entirely.
So, in essence... I don't think they look down on others... but at the same time, very few express a desire to learn about the other species. Basically, feelings of apathy, not feelings of contempt.
I was wondering where the rabbit in my hat got off to!
Cleaner version of the above gif... unless the low framerate was intentional?
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Twilight just has a wide and varied diet on account of not always making it to the university cafeteria during normal eating, waking, or sleeping hours! Also, her body is eighty percent coffee.
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2458592 To sum up what I just said...
I don't think Ponies are like: "You other species are less than us."
I think they're more like: "You other species are welcome to do what you want to do, as long as it doesn't bother what we do." .... kind of like how much of America has become, actually. XD Only showing interest in other countries if it involves them. Believing them equal, but not going out of the way to help others either unless it effects themselves.
I think it is VERY unusual and scandalous for a unicorn to eat meat. I think it is unusual for an earth pony to. I think quite a few pegasi (especially racing pegasi and those who have any contact with griffons) do eat meat sometimes. Cloudsdale is a place you can easily get meat. Canterlot, not so much. Pegasi however do not eat meat in front of their earth pony and unicorn friends. This is why Pinkie made her statement. She doesn't realize that RD most likely does eat some meat.
2458607
Oh, God, the cheesy propaganda!
"Don't let Monkeymen molest you! STAY OFF THE SALT!"
(Brought to you by the Department of Unnecessary Fear Inducement.)
2458679
I really like that in Onto the Pony Planet it seems to be a geographic thing. I get the impression that Dale's cook came from an area where meat wasn't all that uncommon, so she's used to it, while the other pony doesn't have that background.
I'm sure actually eating meat is even rarer, but it seems like it would be less horrifying to ponies from more cosmopolitan areas. Ponies from Manehattan - if it's anything like our New York City - probably don't get all worked up over eating meat because of a history of various races with various dietary requirements mingling there. In fact, I suspect that such ponies would be more casual about carnivorous-ness (
) because they've had friends and lovers share meals with them.
Ponies from Ponyville - with only one or two "strangers" - would naturally be less comfortable.
I love bringing up Lecol, but I can really see her testing and critiquing Dale's meals. Assuming, of course, that she's as worldly as she seems.
2458553
This makes me wonder what effect that would have on the psychology of such a species.
For us, being predators simultaneously allowed for, and required, more brain-power. One feedback-loop later, and we're building the Pyramids.
But if a species never went that route, effectively staying "prey" while becoming sapient. . . that might lead to a pretty alien mindset.
I offer some supposition for you. 1) On the idea of beef, I believe that cows can be Equestrian Citizens, and therefore eating them is against the law in Equestria. Pork and fowl products I feel to be like eating cats or dogs. Other countries may have differing laws/customs. 2)Zebra have no team in the Equestrian Games because they are not native to the country. Neither are Saddle Arabians, and one may assume Griffins, Minotaur, Goats and Breezies to be similar. Cows, Donkey and Mules may simply not have qualified for the events seen. 3)Dragons and Buffalo are migratory species, and as such may not be citizens proper. Their migrations may start and end on foreign soil. 4) Animal classification can be split into Pets: animals who can live companionably alongside equines, Predators: animals who attack equines. Livestock: animals that provide some function. Sheep for wool, pigs for presumably truffles, and free waste disposal, etc. 5) Even if Pegasi hadn't begun eating fish, some of the birds they care for probably have, and as such, they can be considered a type of pet food, like mice for owls or snakes. 6) Herakles had to deal with the man-eating mares of Diomedes.
I think that covers my relevant assumptions on your blog and the comments.
Mine head canon, for what it is worth, is that ponies eat plants, eggs, and dairy-products, but catch fishes for their pets. This reminds me about Professor Stephen Jay Gould:
As an omnivore, Doctor Gould liked eating animals. As an empathetic being, he felt bad for the animals. As a very intelligent Paleontologist, he put his mind to work:
He noted that minimum brain-size is directly proportional to the surface-area of the body. So an animal with 8-times the mass of another animal , should have a brain 4 times larger. In other wards, brain-size increases by the ⅔-power.
All of that is very interesting, but he still had to figure out the base-brain-size to plug into the equation for figuring out whether an animals of the biological equivalent of a windup toy.
Going back to the drawing board, he noted that animals with the same body-size have the same-sized spinal cords whether or not they have the same-sized brains. Spinal-Cord-Size also vary by the ⅔-power. Pretty much all vertebrata (chordates with heads and vertebrae) have brains more massive than their spinal cords except some fishes (one must be careful because some fishes are brainy). These fishes are arguably the biological equivalent of windup toys and safe to eat. With modification, one can even apply this to nonchortata. Humans have brains 50 times more massive than our spinal cords.
I can see ponies hunting or raising fishes for their pets, or maybe even eating fishes themselves.
Tortoises are herbivores but turtles are omnivores or carnivores depending on the species.
No they fucking don't.
Done.
As for the Mongols, the way I heard it was that they fed their horses dried meats ONLY when making long treks through cold areas. Inefficient to haul that much barley or hay or whatever for such a distance, the horses can't graze in a frozen place, and what else did they have to feed them? It makes sense. It's probably not good for the horse. In the same way that it wouldn't be good for you or me to eat nothing but lettuce for a week or two. Keep us alive, but not particularly healthy. Still, it would do in a pinch.
The sheer number of... Two. Yes, just two (2).
i.imgur.com/NO5g5.png
Do you see that plate of burnt toast next to him? If I were a vegetarian, and my wife was that bad of a cook, and I had a pond in the backyard, hell yeah I'd go fishing!
But... she's freaking Fluttershy! How could she not be comfortable with the whole 'meat' thing? She tamed a manticore, regularly has a bear that visits her house, and stared down a cockatrice.
The hell does she care? She's in tune with nature. She understands how it works. Circle of life or whatever. So therefore I find it impossible to put her in the same category as an 'ordinary' pony.
The hot dog thing is simple. Griffons. Think about it. Just like humans, some of them will inevitably be vegetarians. Tofu dogs, anypony?
I suppose you could also say, the other side of that coin is that some ponies will inevitably eat meat. And... you'd be right. I just don't think it'd be considered... particularly normal. Or that a lot of them would do it.
Imagine for a moment a big, socially diverse city, perhaps Manehatten. Imagine (though I haven't seen any) that there's a good number of griffons there. Inevitable that there will be some restaurants that cater to their meaty tastes. Imagine again that you have a pony who's good friends with a griffon. Come on. You know there'll be a day when griffon dude's eating lunch with pony dude and griffon dude is like 'try some of my chicken, you might like it."
And... maybe pony dude does like it. And it's probably not something he'd mention having eaten to say... his parents. But at the same time, I doubt he'd become a closet carnivore. It's... a little weird, but not mind-blowingly fucked up.
So yeah, inevitably, there will be some ponies. Again, I just don't think by any stretch of the imagination it'd be considered normal. Not holy shit, you eat WHAT?! But still just subtly... not quite normal.
I believe I said that, as it's been told to me many times. (In fact I believe I'm in part to blame for this whole blog lol.) Again the answer is simple: Protien. There are plenty of plants we have that are already high in protien. Soy beans? It's not hard to believe that ponies, whilst evolving, had access to some widespread plant that was high in protein. I like to think their hay is simply different. That it's very rich in protien and nutrients. But hell, maybe soybeans grow like weeds out there.
I will definitely give you that. Personally, I believe that 99% of ponies are vegetarians. But to think that the majority of them (the adults anyway) would be shocked or appalled at the idea of meat-eatery is... not likely. As you said, they have pet dogs. They have griffons. It's not something that could be considered that foreign to them. Strange, maybe. A little irksome, perhaps. But not really, as you put it, ERMAGERD MEET!
However. That being said. I quite often call to the idea that Ponyville in particular is a backwater and relatively secluded (societally) town. For all we know, there may be some ponies there who are ignorant of these things. They didn't know what the hell a zebra was, so...
This is relevant.
2458389
I actully agree with just a plate of clean and fresh meat not cousing a freak-out in most ponies...
img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121116005115/mlp/images/2/27/Daisy_Jo_talking_to_Applejack_S1E04.png
But I'm fairly certain as much as saying 'It's steak' would cause a murder investigation and/or projectile vomiting.
Aside from that though, I'd like to offer this pic from 'A Bird In The Hoof':
images.wikia.com/mlp/images/2/2e/Applejack_doesn%27t_know_what_to_eat_first_2_S01E22.png
Notice the sandwich? The ham sandwich?
My own head-canon is that meat is seen as a rare indulgence ponies don't actually need, but like the taste off.
This was a post good enough that I have nothing to add to it. :B
Hondo Flanks bothers me a lot and I don't know why. Is the name based on someone?
2458617
That's pretty close to my headcanon. They mostly eat plants, use animal products (eggs and milk and products derived from those). I personally believe that some of them do, on occasion, eat fish, but it's not a regular thing.
2458619
That's pretty much how I set my mental scale, too: other sapient, civilized creatures are on the top; sapient but not particularly intelligent creatures are the next rung down, then there are pets, wild animals, and lastly 'dumb' animals.
Given the variety of creatures we've seen in the show, I don't think it's possible to group entire species in one camp or another--for example, buffalo are reasoning creatures, but their close cousins the cows aren't. Snakes are presumably not intelligent, but river serpents are.
I can't imagine that the ponies would be to keen on the idea of anybody killing or eating an animal in the top two tiers, for sure, and they'd likely be pretty dubious about it in the next tier down (Gilda wouldn't make many friends if she grabbed Opal for a quick snack, for instance). Below that, though, i think it would be all right (as long as you didn't do it in front of everypony, of course).
Seems to me like you wouldn't want your pigs to be that big if you were taking them out into the woods to root for truffles.
2458640
I surmise that the relationships between the ponies and other species of animals are very complex--in much the same way that any two groups of humanity (tribe, country, religion, etc.) don't always get along [and at least we're all the same species.
I suspect that the ponies do often look down upon other species--and this is probably more prevalent with those ponies who haven't had much experience dealing with other species. [I think this gives Twilight a huge advantage in Ponyville, since she's likely to have met all the Equestrian species at some time when she was in Canterlot]
You've got a good point that the Equestrian Games might not be like our Olympics; perhaps many species weren't invited because they wouldn't/couldn't come, or because they couldn't compete fairly. Any competition which has ponies and adult dragons is going to be a very one-sided competition, after all.
2458679
My own gut feeling is that unicorns in general are more likely to be exposed to it, since Canterlot has a large unicorn population and we can assume that as the capital, it probably has a wide diversity of cultures represented. That may not be true, of course, but it's an assumption I'd be willing to make.
That having been said, I do think that pegasi are the most likely to be exposed to it, and I think earth ponies--with their connections to nature--will probably be the most understanding about it.
I also agree that it would polite to not eat meat in front of another pony, unless you asked first.
2458699
I think it does. While I can't claim to be any sort of genius, I have been working elements of that into my stories wherever possible [grabbing a hoof for a hoofshake is bad, because it's a threatening move. When a stranger who might be a threat is in the room, ponies pay attention to the exits. When in danger, run to safety first.]
2460120 Why is it that you're of such a strong belief that they're of the belief that they're so speciest?
The way you speak it, it sounds like you're having them be in contempt towards any other species. Disapproving of violence is one thing, but contempt towards other species doesn't seem to be the case for the most part. There's already been other towns visited, and other than Canterlot, they've all been friendly.
2458728
While I'm less certain about them being citizens, it seems like a good rule of thumb that if an animal can speak Equestrian, it's not food. [except to monsters] Agreed with pork and fowl products. I think a pony would be very unlikely to eat either, but night not have a huge issue with the concept of some other species doing so.
Certainly plausible; also it may not be an all-encompassing event like the Olympics, and there may be logistical reasons to prevent some species from competing.
I agree on the dragons (and from what we've seen of them, I doubt they'd want Equestrian citizenship even if it were offered). Buffalo seem to have their own territory which is presumably in Equestria . . . again, they may not be interested in participating. In my own headcanon, I'd go with the second--Celestia offers them the opportunity, and they turn her down.
Given what some of them keep as pets (Tank and Gummy) and some of what Fluttershy offered, I don't think there's an easy, neat classification system--but, we all know it's the same on Earth.
That's true, and I think they would find the idea of a bird eating a snake, worm, or fish more palatable than it eating a mouse. I think (my own opinion) that the ponies feel a sort of kinship to any animal who has fur or feathers. If it doesn't, though, they're less inclined to coddle and care for it. [Again, I say less inclined because of Tank and Gummy]
Somebody needs to write a crossover of this. Either that the man-eating mares arrive in Equestria, or (and this would be freaking awesome) the reason that there are no humans in Equestria is that they were a delicacy to ponies, and now they're extinct.
2458752
That makes sense.
I think it was four, actually: Magnum, Spike, Pinkie, and Big Mac. [I don't have an easy way to verify that right now; the only two I'm sure of are Spike and Magnum] Which (to me) suggests that four of the Mane 6 have access to a fishing pole, which is a pretty big percentage. I don't have a fishing pole. . . .
Granted, they might all be the same fishing pole; Pinkie might have one (or several) stashed throughout Ponyville for fishing-pole-related emergencies. And we don't know why the ponies in question are fishing. Maybe the Apples have one to catch fish for Winona, and Magnum catches fish for Opal to eat. Pinkie . . . well, you can't really explain her logic.
All good points. Certainly, she'd be the least squeamish about the whole eating meat thing. It's just interesting that she offered them fish instead of a mouse or something. Their native foods are usually birds, eggs, insects, and small mammals (mice, squirrels, etc).
. .
That's a good point, and one I failed to consider. Even if griffons only eat meat hot dogs, the ponies could have adapted their cuisine. Certainly that's frequently done here on Earth.
I pretty much agree with you here. I think if you opened a fish and chips shop in Ponyville, you'd be out of business by the month's end. I don't believe that eating meat is part of an everyday diet for any pony, but I think for some it's an occasional treat.
Much like you propose, some ponies would have come in contact with the practice through mingling with other species and other cultures, and some of them would undoubtedly like it; others would just shrug and say, "well, that was okay, but I'd rather have a piece of buttered toast." Some wouldn't try it at all, because the smell or the cultural upbringing would turn them off. But I don't think--I don't like the idea--that if a human pulls out a strip of beef jerky, the mob would descend with torches and pitchforks.
For the ponies it's even easier, since there are lots of plants which are high in protein for a herbivore (but are useless to us, since we can't break them down). Their grasses don't have to be different than ours; they'd get plenty of nutrition out of them. Add a few milennia of agriculture, and they would have bred plants which gave them the nutrients they needed and the taste they wanted.
That's very true, and that's why I don't think there's an easy one-sized-fits-all reaction from the ponies. We know Fluttershy's okay with the concept, we can assume that RD's aware of meat eating, Twilight may very well have been exposed to it in Canterlot at some formal function or another, or just walking down the street (and as curious as she is, I bet if she went into a griffon restaurant, she'd have had to try something). Rarity would try it if it was the thing to do, I'm sure. AJ's pragmatic enough, I don't see her having any real issues with the thought . . . and so on. Yes, to your average Ponyville citizen, it's weird, and perhaps frightening.
I'd personally go with 10% of ponies occasionally eat meat, just because it seems in any human study, about 10% of the population does/is X.
2458970
True, they were often kept that way, but for the purpose of their meet. A family has a small cottage, and they can keep one pig, feed it scraps, and at the end of the year, they have lots of meat to eat.
For the ponies, if they're not eating the pigs, why not just put their scraps on the compost heap and use them to fertilize the garden?
2459025
Yes, that's very true. Eating a cow in Equestria would be barbaric, I think.
I don't buy that it has to be ham. It could be a big onion, a polenta mushroom, or any of a number of other things. If they'd called it a ham sandwich, there would be no argument from me, but just the image by itself isn't enough for me to draw an absolute conclusion.
I do agree with that. I think that some of them enjoy eating meat occasionally, but that they don't do it as a regular part of their diet.
2459025
Yes, that's very true. Eating a cow in Equestria would be barbaric, I think.
I don't buy that it has to be ham. It could be a big onion, a polenta mushroom, or any of a number of other things. If they'd called it a ham sandwich, there would be no argument from me, but just the image by itself isn't enough for me to draw an absolute conclusion.
I do agree with that. I think that some of them enjoy eating meat occasionally, but that they don't do it as a regular part of their diet.
2460235
Fair enough an argument. Could even be soy-meat for all we actually know.
Still, I personally think it looks like those big, pale sausages I don't remember the name in English for. (Bal-og-na, or something but my spellchecker refuse to recognize it.)
2458691
Pony roofies:
pharmacyselectonline.com.au/pictures/orig/422169.jpg
2459056
2459289
I think it was for copyright reasons. Apparently, he was drawn to look much like Tom Selleck of Magnum, P.I. fame.
alohashirtshop.com/images/ecomm/products/full/paradise-found-jungle-bird-red-tom-selleck-magnum-pi6.jpg