Any time any shit starts , Celestia immediately pawns it off to Twilight and her friends. The one time she actually did anything, during the Changeling invasion, she had her ass soundly handed to her.

Luna literally slept through the invasion. THERE WERE EXPLOSIONS.

And, at the very end, they basically say "We're sick of the job. Here you go newb; try not to break anything," and piss off to points unknown.

How does this country still exist?

7689467
Wow. I think the same thing. Even if I still love Luna and her sister. Your absolutely right about that.

7689467
That’s what said once!😠 But do others listen, no. They just tell me ‘that’s not the point of the show’, and disliked my post. You, me, and others like ourselves see the real truth. The truth that Celestia is a manipulator that wants to do things her way to maintain peace and stability. Just watch ‘Sinner of Equestria’. A certain human-turned anthro bat pony could tell you what’s really going on.

7689467
It's possible that Celestia and Luna serve as figureheads (much like the Queen of the United Kingdom), but that most governance is done by others (Prime Minister, Cabinet, etc.). However, we don't see the inner workings of government as the target audience would likely find that boring.

7689467

To answer your question: Blind loyalty to the monarchy, dumb luck, the magic of friendship, and foes overseas being practically nonexistent.

I mean, even Shining Armor was more useful than the regal sisters, and all he did was throw his wife like a javelin. Hay, the only time Luna and Celestia actually did things competently was a thousand years prior to FiM. Clearly they've lost their competency by the modern day.

Yeah plus the plans Celestia came up with were only successful due to luck. Luck that discord was willing to let friendship into his heart. Luck that twilight was able to make friends with the girls. Luck for every villain. Even the dragon didn't have a real plan.

7689467
You can't blame them for protagonistic lensing - it can get the best of anyone. Even Twilight failed to create a lasting peaceful Equestria, just so Sunny and her friends could come along and fix things.

(That said, Celestia does have a wee bit of a manipulating-others problem, and Twilight has a problem with saying no which kind of enables it.)

7689479
LUNA SLEPT THROUGH A WAR.

I mean, I think one of the clear takeaways from the show is that, yeah, Celestia and Luna actually aren't the best leaders. This is kind of why Celestia trained her student to take over, and we can easily see the sheer gap between Equestria as it's portrayed in season 1 (isolated, ruled by a distant, if benevolent, ruler) and in season 9 (forged alliances with everyone, internationally significant, ruled by an intelligent and dynamic ruler).

Celestia did the job, but she clearly wasn't the best at the job, and she knew that. And I don't think that's weird to say. When they came to power, it was one-thousand years ago, and Celestia's rule, whilst long, was basically half of what it was supposed to be: a diarchy.

Not to mention, once you take away all the character stuff and the slice of life drama, MLP FiM kind of plays out like an arms race. A bunch of differnet groups bring in different, wildly overpowered magical ideas and technologies. Tirek can succ magic, Changelings use love harvesting, Discord uses chaos magic, etc., and Twilight uses friendship magic, a thus far new form of magic. Alicorn magic is the same kind of magic used one-thousand years ago; it's outdated, archaic. Equestria needs this new form of magic to stay on top, and Twilight is the one that's basically developing it.

So, like, kinda, Celestia not being as good as Twilight in the modern Equestria context is sorta the point, though the fanfics that treat Celestia as this all-powerful supergoddess might not make it seem that way. I don't think that makes Celestia shit; in the past, she may very well have been the toughest bitch around, but times change. If anything, I view it as a sign of intelligence to recognise when someone else is better suited. How many leaders in our world would willingly step away from a long period of rule to someone new?

I have no explanation as to why Luna slept through an invasion. But to be fair I can sleep through my alarm pretty regularly.

7689467

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7689475
One word. Delegation.

Equestria is, for all intents and purposes, a constitutional starchy. Outside of a few traditional functions she and Luna are unable to finangle their way out of, they're jobs are throne fillers, celestial yeeters, and d whichever alicorn is closest designated stop celestia from molesting yaks-er

7689482

I mean, I think one of the clear takeaways from the show is that, yeah, Celestia and Luna actually aren't the best leaders. This is kind of why Celestia trained her student to take over

I'm afraid Celestia's overconfidence in having someone who wasn't related to the royal family may have played a part in the collapse of Equestria. Seriously, who in the right mind puts an outsider in control of your kingdom? Celestia should've had someone in her family takeover, not Twilight. And if Twilight was responsible in leading to the ultimate collapse of said kingdom, well, I can probably imagine Celestia and Luna regretting having allowed her to gain the throne to their nation.

7689482
Also, imagine having the same job for more than a thousand years. No matter how good a job it was, you'd get sick of it.

Celestia'd clearly been trying to get rid of it for a while. Twilight wasn't even her first attempt! If things had gone differently, she'd have handed it to Sunset Shimmer.

Also, I'm pretty sure half the time she just told Twilight to handle everything was her trying to make sure Twilight was ready to take over for her.

Celestia probably was powerful... before a thousand years of sitting in a throne all day, eating cake, and having to deal with politics. How often does she even cast spells, other than raising the sun and moon?

--Sweetie Belle

7689488 It strikes me like some mad speculation to think that someone would automatically do a better job than Twilight just because they were related to Celestia. If these relatives are so good, where are they?

At the very least, as it's portrayed in the (admittedly children's cartoon) show, Twilight appears to be pretty much the most powerful magic user, the most dynamic and involved statespony (Celestia seems to go by the classic 'sit on a throne and watch nobles sort of do things' method of monarchistic ruling), and it doesn't seem like anyone better qualified is around. If Twilight couldn't do it, frankly, it's hard to imagine Prince Blueblood making a better go at it.

7689491

Also, I'm pretty sure half the time she just told Twilight to handle everything was her trying to make sure Twilight was ready to take over for her.

Even Twilight, if memory serves, describes at least one of these things as 'tests'. Though admittedly I'm not sure what Celestia's backup for dealing with the likes of Discord was; it seemed implied that Celestia couldn't use the elements after they were depowered following Celestia banishing Luna, which basically crippled her ability to do the sorts of things Twilight was able to do early in the show.

Kind of another point in favour of getting Twilight to do it, really, though.

7689482
7689491

Do you suppose there's a way one could use this as a starting point to the society's collapse to the Old Ways prior to the events in the movie?

7689496
That might've been a case where they barely managed it the first time, and the only weapon they had that worked on him now had to be used by Twilight and co, so it had to be handled by her.

Though, you know, Twilight won because Celestia went and sent back all Twilight's friendship letters to her through Spike, so she kind of did intervene on that one.

--Sweetie Belle

7689467 I have a headcanon for both of them.

Celestia was still in recovery from the banishment of her sister. Despite the protests of her caretakers, she visited the spot at the haunted Castle of the Two Sisters where Nightmare Moon first struck her down a year ago on the Nightmare Night.

Upon landing, the ground beneath her hooves gave way and she fell to the soft matter below. “Rotting mattresses ?” She quickly jumped out to escape the stench. “Why would anypony put a bunch of mattresses on the spot where Nightmare Moon struck me down?”

She gasped. A stream of tears burst down her face. “Every Nightmare Night, she pranked me, but last year I thought it was real! She was Nightmare Moon at the time! She was…” The Princess crumpled on the ground under the weight of the truth. “Luna!”

The realization of what she had done gave birth to regret that would haunt her until the end of her days.

Debilitated, she would be forever incapable of any action, letting her students wage all the battles in her steed.

All the while, the mare on the moon kept repeating the words she had hoped Celestia's ears would receive, “It was merely a prank. It was merely a prank…” She too would avoid conflict and rather sleep over any major event than risk being misunderstood again.

7689492

It strikes me like some mad speculation to think that someone would automatically do a better job than Twilight just because they were related to Celestia. If these relatives are so good, where are they?

It could be possible that Celestia overlooked certain ponies in her family that already had the necessary experience to maintain peace and order in the kingdom after she and Luna retired. Prince Blueblood, for all intents of purposes, wouldn't pass in the family succession, considering we've already seen how he operated back a few seasons ago, where he's with Rarity.

In addition, the noble system is in place, so she would've had plenty of opportunities to find the correct pony to succeed her and her sister. I'm guessing she put way too much effort in Twilight into believing that she would've easily not cause a literal meltdown of prejudice among the 3 pony races, and not use friendship to be implemented into the Equine government.

Like, I might sound mad based on how I wrote my comment to you, but that's not my intention, of course.

I'm simply seeing the flaws that Celestia had done which may have become problematic that she didn't think further into the future on what would happen while Twilight became the sole princess of her kingdom.

7689467
That is sort of thing that leader supposed to do though. Find some idiot who is willing and able to handle the problem, dump problem on them and wait for resolution.

Though yes, Luna is useless. Why was she allowed into the government again?

7689488

I'm afraid Celestia's overconfidence in having someone who wasn't related to the royal family may have played a part in the collapse of Equestria. Seriously, who in the right mind puts an outsider in control of your kingdom? Celestia should've had someone in her family takeover, not Twilight.

Outside of having Luna run the show solo, who? Cadence rules the Crystal Empire and Flurry Heart is a baby. Blueblood (not sure if he is actually related or not) is a femboy bitch that would be worse than putting Snips and Snails in charge. Now I personally don't think Twilight was a good choice because of her lack of life experience. Hell let Discord run the show, certainly he wouldn't pull any crap this time around, right?

And if Twilight was responsible in leading to the ultimate collapse of said kingdom, well, I can probably imagine Celestia and Luna regretting having allowed her to gain the throne to their nation.

In my headcanon Twilight's over reliance on friendship and ultimately shitting on ponies and favoring other creatures (as a sign of friendship to them) led to her downfall and thus, the collapse of Equestria.

7689509 Again, if these hypothetical relatives are so good, I'd expect them to have a jolly good reason why they sat out nine seasons of chaos, and what their qualifications would be that manages to somehow match all the crazy wild stuff Twilight does.

7689516
I've personally never seen anything to really make me think Celestia and Luna had living relatives anyways.

Princess Cadance always seemed to me to be descended from the original rulers of the Crystal Empire that Sombra overthrew.

Prince Blueblood... well, my assumption tends to be that he's the latest descendant of the original useless unicorn aristocracy. Princess Platinum and such?

--Sweetie Belle

7689521 To be fair I think that does make sense, but a little dark corner of my mind refuses to imagine that in one thousand years Celestia didn't get around at least three times. Like, for special occasions, or something. One-thousand years is a long time. I imagine she's done a lot off things to stave of boredom, up to and including starting a jazz band.

7689524
Admittedly, it's quite possible by now most of Equestria is descended from Celestia and Luna.

If you're the sole ruler of a country, getting pregnant is probably something you try to avoid, tho'.

--Sweetie Belle

7689526

If you're the sole ruler of a country, getting pregnant is probably something you try to avoid, tho'.

Agreed. We're not talking about a president or a prime minister here, we're talking about who is likely the most heavily watched pony in the nation and getting knocked up by a commoner probably wouldn't look good in the eyes of the populous.

7689515

Outside of having Luna run the show solo, who? Cadence rules the Crystal Empire and Flurry Heart is a baby.

The last episode of G4 depicts Flurry heart in a stainless glass window where it looks to be that she succeeded her parents into becoming the new ruler of the Crystal Empire. That wasn't much of a problem when it came to that kingdom, as it would seem that Cadance and Shining Armor planned everything accordingly in having their daughter be the next in line of said kingdom.

However, I'm not certain if the Empire had collapsed in a familiar fashion to how Equestria fell. No telling if Twilight had a lot of influence over Flurry's decisions that spelled a massive crisis in how the Empire operated.

Prince Blueblood was a horrible unicorn, I can agree on that. I'm glad that jerk never became the successor to the sisters.

7689534
And if you pick a noble, well, are you picking unicorns, pegasi, or earth ponies? The other two factions are going to be pissed.

You also need someone else to be able to fill in for maternity leave, and Luna was, well, preoccupied for a good while there.

--Sweetie Belle

7689516
True that. Unless, well, this is just me thinking, so I might not be good at seeing how things went inside Celestia's head. She could've overruled those relatives since she was one of the princesses, though I'm not sure if Luna could've thought of something better. It's possible that Celestia wanted to find a pony that was not directly related to her family to take Equestria into a different path, which of course would be Twilight Sparkle.

Even then, I personally believe that Celestia carried too much pride for herself when it came to finding Twilight as her future successor.

7689539

Nobles are pretty much worthless in my eyes. What purpose do they even serve? Nothing but a bunch of rich snobs who have favor from the royals....why I don't know given most of them are parasitic jerks.

7689467
DWK said it best. Celestia is basically Equestria's mom

They’re only as worthless as the writers who dictate their actions. Take it up with Big Jim. He has a Twitter account.

7689546
Main trouble with nobles is that the original one might've been a good ruler or such, but there's no guarantee their kids will also be good at it. And when you start saying nobles have to marry other nobles, you get a whole bunch of inbreeding, and wind up with Prince Blueblood.

7689551
The show's over, so no point in bothering him, and what you see is the result of a whole bunch of compromises they end up having to make, anyways. If things had gone as originally written, Celestia would've been a Queen, and Blueblood would've been a Duke, for example.

--Sweetie Belle

7689480
It was a very short war. I'm sure many ponies did.

7689559
Also, Luna sleeps during the day and works at night, so it was her normal sleeping shift, and if you've ever had to sleep during the daytime, it's already difficult enough to sleep with the light and noise, and you're not only going to have done things to make it easier to sleep, like blackout curtains, but you're going to be used to having to sleep through a bunch of stuff going on.

Sleeping through a short war would be easy, if it doesn't go through your bedroom.

--Sweetie Belle

7689557

You’re referring to the very early days of FiM, not the later and far more controversial seasons where very different people were running the scene than who was at the start. It’s never too late to ask questions or admit mistakes. I’m not interested in contacting the staff due to accepting that FiM turned rotten and learned what I could from it, but the option is there for those who want answers.

>tfw you call Luna worthless

7689467
This is as ancient as the fandom itself. So many writers have tackled this and given plausible reasons for it over and over again for a decade.

7689473
how bout the time he acted as a one many city shield? Yeah, he got compromised, but tbf Chrysalis was probably much stronger than Shining even before feeding off of his love.

7689546
But they are important to rule the kingdom You watch too much 'noble is bad' concept type of story

7689557

The nobles were rulers? I thought they were just high class snobs that had somehow won favor with the monarchy.

7689565

Really? Other than "be there", what has she done?

7689538

Prince Blueblood was a horrible unicorn, I can agree on that. I'm glad that jerk never became the successor to the sisters.

Completely agree, but if you watch Rarity attitude in that episode, even me have to do in Prince Blueblood way

7689602

What the hell do they even do? If you look at ponies like Blueblood, he does absolutely nothing.

7689607
One pony don't present all of the nobles

7689608

Tell me though, what the hell do nobles even do?

7689604
Nobles, in quite general and vague terms, are the descendants of people who managed to get a lot of land and keep it, so that usually meant warlords, brigands, army leaders, pirates, etc, etc. Like Sir Terry Pratchett once mentioned in his books, when you have enough money and are a noble, your great, great grandfather trading slaves and beheading people becomes a cool story to tell and brag about during dinner.

To continue from there, rich or succesful nobles meant people who managed to retain or expand that wealth, keep their land safe, and so on and on. That usually translated to competent people who knew how to handle economics/trade or armies.

But like monarchy, successful father does not mean successful son, and as those challenges become less common, so do the metrics fall—incompetent nobles are able to retain their wealth as well as competent. However, that doesn't mean they are extinct or they didn't transform to other type of challenges. Which would, of course, require a certain type of noble to face those hurdles, which is a bit of a silly risk to take when there is no need.

So basically, depending on how far down you go on the succession and how more secure a noble line becomes, the more "useless" the nobles are—though, again, they're not just 'high-class' snobs but the medieval version of CEO's, billionaires, etc, etc. Which doesn't stop them from being high-class snobs though, either.

7689539

And if you pick a noble, well, are you picking unicorns, pegasi, or earth ponies? The other two factions are going to be pissed.

That's another problem as well. If the pony belonged to just one race, the other two would find that as a slap in the face. And even then, when Equestria was seeing itself diversify with having other species living among ponies, it could've caused more prejudice to transpire, hence as to why we never saw any other species in the G5 movie. This is all a theory, of course, so I might be wrong on what I'm saying on the topic at hand.

7689615

Well as long as these nobles have no powers to make laws that the monarch would enforce they would be fine....I would think it would be the job of the monarch to actually run the country.

7689467

The one time she actually did anything, during the Changeling invasion, she had her ass soundly handed to her.

What would've happened if one or more of the Mane 6 had been incapacitated or worse, killed? Sometimes I have to wonder what Celestia would've done then, considering the Elements of Harmony could only be used by them now and not by her anymore.