Okay, so here we are again with this week's new episode discussion thread, after two weeks with no episode. This week,the episode is called "No Second Prances", and it's by Nick Confalone, who wrote "Party Pooped" and "Hearthbreakers"!

Which episode was "Party Pooped" again?

Oh, right.

Usually I'd make some wild guesses about what the episode was about here, but it's been two weeks. I already read the summary and saw the trailer clip.

So, the summary was: "A new friendship forms between Starlight Glimmer and a fellow formerly bad pony, but Twilight disapproves.", and from the trailer, we know that the pony in question is the Great and Powerful Trixie, not Prince Rutherford. Though that would have been interesting.

I'm honestly not sure whether I'm looking forward to this one or not. I actually would have kinda liked this episode to have been by Chris Savino or MA Larson, but we'll see what Nick does with it...

--Sweetie Belle

5205597 Now you're making me want to see something that involves Starlight trying to become friends with Prince Rutherford. That definitely would have been something, even if the property damage ends up being sky high.

5205600
It would've had great potential as a comedy. Twilight wouldn't have approved at all. I'd love to watch it.

--Sweetie Belle

5205597 I'm really curious to see Trixie's reaction to Twilight's wings. I've always liked the idea that she'd totally freak out and backpedal, but it looks to be that she already knows about Twilight's new form.

5205610 All Trixie has to do is bring a plate full of Quesadillas, and the battle is hers

5205597
I hope they have a good reason for Twilight not approving, considering she's all about reforming ponies and Trixie left the last episode on friendly terms.

5205597 Oh god with the mention of the particular pony in question EQD is going to be untouchable for weeks.

Methinks Starlight Glimmer shall gather her own clique apart from the Mane 6.

That is all.

I might get some flack for saying this, but this episode sounds like it's not going to be in my wheelhouse. I nevet cared for Trixie and Starlight is still kind of meh.

5205597

and it's by Nick Confalone, who wrote "Party Pooped" and "Hearthbreakers"

Two episodes that have at least two things in common.
a) The main characters were doing it wrong.
b) a common base of comprehension had to be found.

5205597

"Who is the 4th spot for?"

The LOGICAL answer would be 'Spike', but of course not.

-Lumino

Big Mac, talking?

Ever wanna punch Twilight in the muzzle?

This is one of those episodes.

-Lumino

Okay, on the subject of Hoofdini, how on earth does anyone magic tricks seriously when you've got a nation where a third of the population can performs feats of teleportation, illusion or anything else? I mean, you know that there's plenty of people who can do magic and whatnot, so why assume he's doing it in good faith?

I am officially very happy.
5205998 That's part of Trixie's magic. She makes ponies impressed with anything. The problem here is that she's cheating.

5206003 I guess, but it feels so odd for a nation where you've got beings that use magic to manipulate the sun and moon being impressed by what is likely an act of teleportation.

Why is Fluttershy afraid of manticores all of a sudden?

Wouldn't be an episode if Celestia wasn't getting shit on.

Overall, it had a rocky start but I am happy with the ending. Trixie wasn't a villain (just pretty awkward, and who doesn't love some awkwardness) and Twilight made an excellent antagonist.

-Lumino

5205982 It's got to be a brand NEW friend. Presumably she's already friends with Spike after that whole thing in the Crystal Empire.

5206010

You misunderstand. I'm just annoyed that a spot at TWILIGHT'S dinner table isn't set for Spike.

-Lumino

5205998

Well I guess it's like, everyone can play baseball or dance, but not everyone can do it really well, which is why people pay to see professionals do it.

5205597

And so Trixie teaches a generation of kids it's okay to threaten suicide just to get a friend back.

The Trixiefags are going to claim it's perfect anyway despite that so why am I even bothering.

5206016

There's a mugged leprechaun at the end of every rainbow, eh?

-Lumino

5206020

I'm... not sure what you mean.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't have commented had the episode ended any differently (this episode wasn't catered to me, after all) but I felt I had to make a remark about that ending because seriously, what?

5205597 I was so worried they would make this episode a rehash of "What About Discord?" but thankfully they didn't, with the exception of one or two moments Nick didn't do what could've been a very painful rehash.

Ok, not a perfect episode to me, but a more than decent one.

What I didn't like:
The script is really messed up. Above all: WHY ON THE EARTH SHOULD HAVE TRIXIE PREPARED, AND APPARENTLY CENTRED ALL HIS SHOW ON, (obtaining a manticore included) A TRICK SHE HAD NO IDEA ON HOW TO PERFORM? AND WHY SHE DECIDED TO TRY IT ANYWAY, KNOWING SHE WAS GOING TO DIE?
Starlight teletporting. What you do, you can't undo. Being capable of teleport already gives problems to the writers for Twilight (that sometime has to forget to be capable to do it, to make the script work), now it will give problems to them for Starlight.
Too little use of third person speech.

What I liked:
Trixie's characterization.
Twilight-Trixie interactions ("we buried the hatchet, but we do not like each other")
"the humble performer's show dont' work" (a mock to "Boast Busters"?)
Celestia pissed off.
The cameos.
The jokes.

5206276

"Too little use of third person speech."

You know that is part of her act, right? When she is in her 'Magician' persona, she speaks in third person. Outside of performances, she only really uses it when she's in conflict with someone (AKA, Twilight).

-Lumino

Okay but seriously, how do the gif people on derpibooru work so fast? Not that I'm complaining but it always amazes me.

5205600 5205606
I'd love to see that too. Someone should write it. Who can we bribe to do so?

5206367

You know that is part of her act, right?

Yes, but I prefer when she tries to keep the act in real life. Trixie always acting is part of her character.

5205597 In a way, Both Twilight and Trixie are to blame here.
Twilight never really forgave Trixie and didn't trust Starlight with her decision and the only reason Trixie befriended Starlight was to beat Twilight at something. So they're both horrible ponies. Untrustworthy and hypocritical. I feel like Twilight's likability is slowly decreasing this season. She might end up becoming the new modern Timmy Turner.

5206479

Twilight's likability is slowly decreasing this season. She might end up becoming the new modern Timmy Turner.

To me Twilight gained something with this episode. A too perfect character is an handicap. Her having defects and being capable of having antipaties is a plus, and I've had a bit of a "Bugs Bunny - Daffy Duck interaction" feeling with this couple.

5206399

She doesn't refer to herself in 3rd person until she starts her boisterous show persona. That is how she is. You can claim that whatever you want is "part of her character" but that doesn't make it correct. Trixie is not always acting, it is a part of her that she turns on and off as it is required.

-Lumino

I don't think Twilight had sufficient reason for her grudge, given how she left things with Trixie last time; their relationship took a few steps backward to get the conflict to work.

Trixie's personality seemed toned-down a bit from her previous appearances. I'm not sure I liked it.

There wasn't anything particularly wrong with the episode, but Trixie's return could certainly have been better. Let's hope she gets another chance to shine later in the season (being Starlight's first real friend, that is a possibility).

5206016
So, I'm not the only one who thought that was a bit much. Threatening suicide if you don't get your way is something a kid might try, and that scene is practically an advertisement for it.

5206705
She pretty much is always acting, according to seasons 1 and 3; she turned off her persona intentionally once (in a very emotional circumstance where it would have been very hard to say what she wanted to say while keeping it up), and otherwise only slipped out of it when panicked.

5206705

She doesn't refer to herself in 3rd person until she starts her boisterous show persona.

And I like when she starts her boisterous show persona, a thing that, everyone saw the show knows, it's something she not only does on stage. What upset you so much about it?

5206734

Nothing at all. I was just pointing out that it isn't something she always does. It's part of her performance style.

-Lumino

5206708

I don't think Twilight had sufficient reason for her grudge, given how she left things with Trixie last time; their relationship took a few steps backward to get the conflict to work.

A thought occurred to me while watching. Namely, Twilight's last interaction with Trixie was during Rainbow Rocks, where EQG-Trixie was a bitch and not really redeemed at all. Twilight is projecting that negativity back on her pony version.

5207036
…Headcanon accepted. Though to be fair, EQG-Trixie was under the influence of siren magic at the time.

While not exactly what I was hoping for, I did enjoy this episode. There was a lot of stuff I really, really liked:

-Getting to see Starlight being crazy good at magic again, but also that she relies on it too much. She kinda doesn't know how to do anything without magic, and she uses it impulsively to solve any problem she encounters, even minor inconveniences. This suggest she's actually relying on it to deal with insecurity, which makes sense since it's the one thing she does best. Also interesting to see that she still has trouble relating to other ponies and showing them respect, even when she doesn't mean any harm.

-Starlight's joke about enslaving Ponyville. I thought that was a nice little character moment. And while she was joking, it did serve as nice foreshadowing of Twilight's worries and the general theme of trust this episode had going.

-Nice to see more of Starlight's personality. She really seems similar to early Twilight, like how she can get easily stressed and overthink things. She seems to manifest it differently, though, being less neurotic, and clueless about friendship in a different way. This is nice, because she needs character traits that makes her unique.

-Turns out Trixie doesn't speak in third person all the time, or even most of the time. Most likely she only does it to ponies she is either trying to impress or feels intimidated by, which up until this point was everypony.

-In general, Trixie's characterization was spot on. She's not really a bad pony - she clearly wants to be accepted - but she's still prideful, kinda selfish and a bit manipulative. This is pretty much exactly the pony I always assumed her to be when not possessed by dark magic: The stage performer who just want to put up a good act and maybe gets a bit carried away with once in a while, but doesn't truly mean any real harm.

-On a side note: Rainbow can now go super-sonic. Like, without any rainboom or anything, just straight up destroy the sound barrier when she feels like it. Because she's awesome. Also, she apparently knows Spitfire well enough for casual visits. Girl's come a long way.

I kinda didn't want to see Twilight get all distrustful of Trixie, but I think it did work. Mostly because this kind of thing is in character for her. She does sometimes let her worries get the best of her. I think what ultimately sold it to me was that it was less about her distrust of Trixie and more about looking out for Starlight, albeit in a misguided way.

Though, Trixie apparently going suicidal was kinda jarring, I admit. Like, that was seriously weird.

5206008

Why is Fluttershy afraid of manticores all of a sudden?

I think she was mostly terrified at the possibility of seeing a pony get eaten alive.

5206708

I don't think Twilight had sufficient reason for her grudge, given how she left things with Trixie last time; their relationship took a few steps backward to get the conflict to work.

I dunno. She didn't seem to mind having Trixie back in Ponyville per se. What worried her was that Trixie and Starlight were too similar, and that Trixie might not be a good influence.

That's not entirely the same thing as holding a grudge. If you have a friend who used to get into a lot of trouble but has made good effort in turning over a new leaf, and then that friend starts hanging out with a person you have reason to think is kinda shady, you don't need to have anything personal against said shady character in order to be concerned.

It's true Twilight failed to trust Starlight enough, but her intentions were good. And like I said, Twilight has a history of this sort of thing: Whenever she gets nervous, she does tend to overreact.

5207257

Though, Trixie apparently going suicidal was kinda jarring, I admit. Like, that was seriously weird.

It's not as out there as you think. Remember Trixie's first lines in the episode? "For me, they're all one of those days." Even taken as a throw away line, that implies that Trixie's life has been rough since her issues. We have no reason to believe that her show seriously recovered, she lacks any friends or companions and her rival completely and utterly surpassed her in a way she could never attain. She has nobody to help her through it, and then she gets a light in the darkness. One friend, a loyal and talented mare to be her best friend.

And, in an instant, it vanishes because she fell back to her old ways. Back to losing everything again. No recognition, ponies whispering behind her back, alone in a world that doesn't trust or want her.

I've heard worse reasons to consider suicide. It was dark for a kid's show, but I thought it was absolutely believable.

-Lumino

5207288

Oh, I can rationalize why she did it. It just thought it was a really strange scene.

It's not just that the issue of suicide itself is too dark for a show that practically never references death at all, but the tone of the scene was just odd, like it wasn't clear how seriously we're supposed to take it.

5207300

I'll give you that bit on the tone of the scene. It seemed a bit of mood whiplash.

-Lumino

5207300

for a show that practically never references death at all

5207346

for a show that practically never references death at all

-Lumino

5207257

I kinda didn't want to see Twilight get all distrustful of Trixie, but I think it did work. Mostly because this kind of thing is in character for her. She does sometimes let her worries get the best of her. I think what ultimately sold it to me was that it was less about her distrust of Trixie and more about looking out for Starlight, albeit in a misguided way.

To me the writers did a good job, the final touch to make it credible, involving Celestia. We all know Twilight tend to be a little nervous wen it comes to show something to her ex-mentor.

From the writer of the episode, Nick Confalone:

Fun fact: original title of "No Second Prances" was "Old Dog, New Trixie." But we changed it to keep the surprise. So... thanks, promo dept.

https://twitter.com/nickconfalone/status/726436627845775360

5207257 Heads up, I'm going to quote you on my blog when I give my review of this episode.

I found the episode enjoyable for the most part. There were a couple of red flags that probably could have been handled differently (leaving Celestia with Cranky, Vinyl, and Derpy for example), but it didn't collapse after the first half like Daring Don't did.

Apparantly the "Mary Sue" card is getting tossed around a bit, but neither Twilight nor Starlight qualifies. Starlight ditching Twilight for Trixie wasn't right... but there was a lot that wasn't really right in that situation. Twilight was trying to use Starlight almost as much as Trixie was from a certain point of view. "Hey Princess Celestia, look what a great student of yours I was/am, by applying your lessons to my own student!" Twilight has turned her adorkable levels up to eleven this season... I'm surprised she didn't go Lesson Zero.

Not that it's an appropriate defence of what she did, but Twilight may have also been influenced by the fact that EQG Trixie was a jerk too, even though she's not the same individual as Pony Trixie. It's not fair, but people don't always judge others fairly even when they try to take the high road. Twilight admitting that she hadn't fully forgiven Trixie showed that she's only human.... equine... Whatever.

Probably I felt the worst for poor Celestia... although, she kind of brought it on herself by not SPEAKING UP. She should have invited Louie.