I mean, as I point out lots of times, Boast Busters was an absolute sample of flatulence in writing (it's okay to show off unless you're Trixie?! What kind of moral is that??), but you know, Snips and Snails had some funny lines ("Why do they call it the flea market when they don't really sell any fleas?") and given the right authors, could potentially be a lot funnier: I'm positive that those two could very well be veritable comedy gold mines! So why are they hated so much?

4176460 ik i hate tjem cause there dumb

4176460

comedy gold mines

HA HA HA no.

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Hating characters because they're stupid is kind of like rejecting a chance to have a great comedy; ever watched Spongebob? Or Beavis and Butthead?

Personally, I hate them because they're annoying, stupid, and their voices irritate and annoy me.

4176469 yes but to me spongebob got redundant so i stopped but i do see ur point that eberypony should give them more of a chance

4176460
Are you kidding? I love Snips & Snails; they're like the best card to come out of the entire Canterlot Nights expansion:

()

Am I one of the few who don't hate them. I generally don't have a positive or negative opinion of them. I do think they could be used more and could be absolutely hilarious. I would like to see them do more to cause problems for everypony else. There is plenty of things that they could screw up but I do think that once they should be used as the ones to make things right. Maybe have them outsmart DT and SS in something and make those two look like complete dunces.

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I kinda like the portrayal of snails as a burgeoning transexual/crossdresser/what have you. Dunno why. Honestly Trixie kinda overshines them in that episode a lot, so as far as I'm concerned they're completely forgettable next to her.

I don't hate them, I just forget they exist.

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(it's okay to show off unless you're Trixie?! What kind of moral is that??)

That... wasn't the moral. The moral was that it's okay to showcase your talents as long as you're not an ass about it.

Snips and Snails had some funny lines ("Why do they call it the flea market when they don't really sell any fleas?")

Not many people found that line to be funny, myself included. I'd personally file that under "corny".

Hating characters because they're stupid is kind of like rejecting a chance to have a great comedy; ever watched Spongebob? Or Beavis and Butthead?

There's nothing wrong with a character being stupid, but to make up for that, they have to be either likable or funny. The early episodes of Spongebob were funny because while Spongebob was a little dimwitted, he still meant well and had good intentions. As for Beavis and Butthead,, their episodes worked because their humor and pop-culture references were funny to the point of being almost insightful.

To me, Snips and Snails fit neither of the above descriptions.

Personally, I don't hate either character. We don't see much of them in comparison to other characters, I don't find them to be too intrusive (unlike a certain other character), and they could be funny characters if they're given some funny writing, but I can kinda see why they aren't well liked.

4176460 You know, in RealityCheck's "The Audience", they're seen in more positive lights, I think I understand what you're saying, and you have some good points there, I guess people hate them because they're made and written to be hated....

Try seeing if you can do it. Or if you know some other fics where they're portrayed in better lights, let me know, will you?

I used to hate them because they were obnoxious and unfunny. That changed with Rainbow Rocks.

4176460

I think my problem with Snips and Snails is that I just can't respect them. They have no style, no dignity, no particular virtues I find endearing, and they don't even have a lot of agency of their own. I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate them, but I don't think I will ever like them unless I see at least a hint of a beautiful quality in them.

4176460 Mlp is a show projected at a demographic of girls ages 5-11. At that stage to them all boys are stupid, and disgusting or their exact opposite. Unfortunately Snips and Snails got tagged with the role as the pair of idiots, and I'm afraid that they'll stay like that (unless the show lets them age). My problem is with their appearance: Snips looks like he has down syndrome and Snails looks like a mentally challenged pony. I find that very offensive actually. Aside from all that I actually like them because they don't get the justice that they deserve, and they remind me of two idiots I used to know.

4176460

(it's okay to show off unless you're Trixie?!

Yeah . . . you actually completely and utterly missed the point of that episode, bud. There's a difference between making certain abilities known, and being an arrogant Jack-ass about those abilities. After seeing how her friends reacted, Twilight was afraid to even use her powers around them, when she really, really needed to. Simply having awesome magical capabilities should not have, and did not earn her the ire of here friends.

Trixie's problem was that she was using her abilities to try to exert superiority over others. Even if Twilight had used her powers to simply cut Trixie down a notch (which she didn't) then she still wouldn't have been in the wrong, because with the way Trixie was acting, she both deserved and needed that. Twilight is not arrogant. I'm more arrogant than she is.

It's kind of like comparing Sheldon from the Big Bang theory to Spencer Reid from Criminal minds. Reid is up-front and honest about his IQ, memory, and ability to speed-read like an alien, but he in no way touts these abilities as a way of trying to establish that he's better than anyone. In fact, he's clearly depicted as respecting his colleagues/coworkers and frequently goes to them for advice. Actually, I think Reid's very much comparable to Twilight Sparkle.

Anyhoo . . .

I can't say that I hate Snips and Snails, but there's not much there for me to really like, either. They're purely written as a couple of idiots who are only there for comic relief. We aren't really supposed to love them. Pity them, maybe, but not love. They serve their purpose, but that's about it.

For those who aren't fond of that brand of humor, I can see ho the appearance of these characters may be agitating. They aren't worthy of personal hatred in the same way Diamond Tiara may be, but that doesn't mean that people are necessarily going to enjoy these characters.

4176589

It's kind of like comparing Sheldon from the Big Bang theory to Spencer Reid from Criminal minds. Reid is up-front and honest about his IQ, memory, and ability to speed-read like an alien, but he no way touts these abilities as a way of trying to establish that he's better than anyone. In fact, he's clearly depicted as respected his colleagues/coworkers and frequently goes to them for advice. Actually, I think Reid's very much comparable to Twilight Sparkle.

The accuracy of this analogy is god-tier.

4176601

I wasn't even expecting to run into anyone else who was even familiar with that particular character.

4176610
I'm familiar with TBBT and I have relatives that watch Criminal Minds and talk about it all the time.

4176469 Because I enjoy entertainment to get away from stupidity, not run headlong towards it. Stupid for stupid's sake is not funny. If someone else finds it funny, well, power to them, but I got not one chuckle from those two, and spent the majority of the episode wishing they'd just go away so that I could enjoy watching characters who had a little more going for them than 'I'm dumb lel'.

And I didn't find Beavis and Butthead or Spongebob funny either. But at least they had effort go into them.

I really just don't like stupidity, period. I know none of us are immune to it, but seeing a character where it's all they have just makes me cringe.

I've read at least one story where Snips & Snails together with Silver Spoon are the only friends wich accompany a lonely Diamond Tiara on Heartwarming Eve. This was kinda... uh. heartwarming.

So I don't think a character is per say bad or to be hated. Especially if it comes to background ponies. We've only seen such a small part of Snips and Snails so there may be some stories hidden.

4176460 Because they're joke characters, and the joke is "Haha, they're stupid! Do you get it yet?" Making a character stupid for the sake of stupidity or because you think it's funny, is NOT a good idea. It often makes your characters seem like idiots, and makes your audience want to punch them in the face.

4176617

TBBT makes me cringe. Probably, in part, because I see a small bit of myself in those nerdy man-children.

4176620

I'm really not a fan of Spongebob, but I like Beavis and Butthead as a child. I have no idea what I would think of it today (I'd probably be bored with the fact that' mostly just two guys saying stupid shit about music videos) but I'm at least a fan of King of the Hill.

4176460

(it's okay to show off unless you're Trixie?! What kind of moral is that??)

But that wasn't the moral at all. The moral was "don't be afraid to show your talents as long as you shy away from arrogance".

4176635 That's fine. I just wanted to hammer the point home that humour derived from stupidity seldom makes me laugh. I certainly don't want to tell people a show they watch is bad. Admittedly, there's more going for both shows than just the stupidity aspect, as it should. But they didn't exactly do it for me either.

4176642

I certainly don't want to tell people a show they watch is bad.

Why not? Well, it depends on the intention behind that, I suppose. There's nothing wrong with honest criticism of something that everyone else likes. It's not your or anyone else's fault if someone can't handle criticism for things they enjoy, or do not know how to separate themselves from things they enjoy. Another person's rabid fanboyism isn't your problem.

I personally don't have any problems being vocal of my dislike for certain things, and I don't expect others to hold their tongue, either. A line is crossed when that criticism is specifically aimed at the fans themselves, rather than the work.

4176483
I like 'em too. They kinda remind me of Bob and Doug McKenzie.

4176658 I meant to make it clear that I didn't have a vicious intent by my remark, specifically. I seem to be all over the place with my comments today.

I tend to get a little saddened by seeing so much permanent negativity across the internet I suppose. I'm just loathe to add to it without reason. That said, I think Snips and Snails deserve it.

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Oh, I know the writers handled them poorly, just like Chris Savino handled everything else poorly (let's face it, he made the Mane Six behave very OOC; yes I know the episode was about the difference between self-honesty and arrogance, but he wrote it in such a way that it had all the main characters besides Twilight make asses out of themselves, basically almost contradicting his own message), but what I'm saying is, FIMFiction is full of writers who are loads better than Chris Savino, and if we merely got past hating Snips and Snails for just being unfunny, we can easily make Snips and Snails far more than merely intentionally unlikable.

4176743 Oh, I know we can. And I can't speak for everyone, but most can't be bothered because we don't find them interesting.

sbloom85, I think they have the potential to be like Bob & Doug McKenzie but they need more character development. Those two were hilarious in Strange Brew. That is one of those movies that if anypony hasn't seen, they should.

4176460

"Hate" is a strong term, but for the sake of making arguments to dislike the pair...

1) They have not yet learned from any of their mistakes, which would be a sign of growth and good characterization if they did:

In Boast Busters, they blindly follow Trixie with blatant idol worship. This continues in Magic Duel and could even be attributed to their human counterparts in Equestria Girls. Heck, in Magic Duel, there was a bit of a "why are we doing this again?" moment played for laughs, but they still learned nothing.

In Ponyville Confidential, they took the wrong message away from getting gummed together, and repeated history.

2) Their bumbling characters were ignored while Derpy was vilified.

While I'm not about to search the forum archives, when things blew up in the aftermath of The Last Roundup, Snips and Snails were used in Derpy's defense, although not necessarily in a positive way. It bothered Derpy defenders that Snips and Snails got to be the butt of jokes, while when a Gray Mailmare pulls similar antics, it was considered a form of hate speech. It was argued that Derpy's lines were being read in a similar fashion to how Snails was being voiced.

3) They're lackeys.

Ironically, Silver Spoon is often adored for her status as Diamond Tiara's sidekick and shadow, and is the subject of many a "redemption" fic. Snips and Snails tend to not get the same benefit of the doubt.

4) They're male.

There's a bit of a bias in the fandom against males. It's a minor one, but it's still there. Another irony, because they are the only officially named unicorn colts in Ponyville. (Bags Valet/Atlas is from Canterlot.) Seriously... even with all of the new colts that the Twilight Time episode introduced, not one of them was a unicorn.

5) Twilight refers to them as her friends in Magic Duel, and as of S4 they were added to the opening sequence photo.

Like them or not, they're probably deserving of a little bit of that. They're recurring characters, probably one level above Background Ponies, possibly on the level of Diamond Tiara as far as one trick characters go.

4176743 Not that I like being the pessimist, but why?

Why do I have to go out of my way to try to enjoy characters that are made to be unlikeable? They did their job. It's the one thing I'll never take away from them: they acted the fool and got me to have someone to gang up on. But why, based on that, should I hope that they get development when the theme of characters learning and growing is already a central theme for so many, more deserving characters?

I don't hate them, I just never want to have to see them again. I actually think they added to Boast Busters in that they represented the kind of person who would allow boastfulness to thrive. Stories needs it's idiots, and I for one was just glad that it wasn't Spike for a change. But I also want them gone until another opportunity arises for a character who needs to be the subject of my ire.

If you take that away from them, and make them halfway watchable, what good are they?

4176460 They are the stereotypical dumb male character who is little.more than the henchmen of the antagonist. They have no depth to their characters and therefore boring. And they have two of the dumbest sounding voices of any character.

Here is a question. Are they supposed to be young because that makes them appear as potential low achievers or ditching school? That hurts their characters even more. They don't seem to appear with any of the other foals or really any of the adults. Where do they fit in in the age range?

4176460
Valid question Doctor Grant. I personally do not like these two. Honestly their just a spot below OWLICIOUS for my most hated character of the show..my personal problem is that their one of the FEW male representatives we get im the show AND their idiots. I just feel offended as a boy that a show with such a huge male following has very poor male reps. According to MLP all major male characters are either.
Idiots-Snips and Snails
Easily manipulated-Shining Armor
Bland-Flash Sentry
Or EVIL-Discord Sombra and Tirek.
OR comic relief-Spike sadly because when done right hes a really GOOD CHARACTER.

But for me snips and snails are just....offensive and not very funny..

4176847 What about Big Macintosh, Soarin, Braeburn, Mr. Cake, Filthy Rich, or Sea Breeze?

4176847
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
The only two males [that have meaningful lines] that seem to have slipped your list are Big Mac and Mr. Cake... but they're sort of "responsible, working" and relegated to the background for the most part.

4176460

I'm positive that those two could very well be veritable comedy gold mines! So why are they hated so much?

Probably because of the above. They rather lack the sort of energy that would cause one to shake their head and say "it is a pity that youth is wasted on the young" -- it would be excusable if they were "idiots" because they thought like and acted like children, but it seems that the "idiot"/"moron" tag has been attached.

4176460 The problem with Snips and Snails is not their dumbness, but their gullibility. Had they been introduced with "Ponyville Confidential" instead of "Boast Busters", I believe they would be quite well liked.

There are different kinds of stupid. Spongbob is stupid, however also independent. He has some very bad ideas, but at least they are his ideas. (I still don't like him.)

The way Snips and Snails were introduced, they lacked any form of independent thinking and scepticism. Their type of stupid is the one that probably ends up as a villain's grunt, Nazi, or religious fanatic, simply because they don't question what others tell them.

4176743

It's not about writing quality - I find them unlikable on a conceptual level. They are a type of character that I just can't abide.

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*facepalm* im really.....ugh. Right I forgot, but see?! Their such non entities I can't remember them!

4177243
Yep; I completely understand.

4176460

because they're spineless, useless, and so fucking hypertarded.

4176460 Because they are life destroyers and I do not find them funny. Therefore I find no value in them as characters whatsoever.

4176460

Hate? What? Snips and Snails are the gravediggers from Hamlet: rude and crude and funny.

Any characters so dislikable without being in any way evil, are just begging to be given a sympathetic turn farther down the road. I'm guessing the show's writers will, someday.

4177025

What about Big Macintosh, Soarin, Braeburn, Mr. Cake, Filthy Rich, or Sea Breeze?

Not to put words in K-B S's mouth, but for the sake of argument...

Big Mac - the most developed of all of the males on the show, probably still falls between "easily manipulated" and "comic relief." Consider his "leading male" episodes were Hearts & Hooves Day, Pinky Apple Pie, and Filli Vanilli, and in all three cases he was kind of the butt monkey. Since the "eeyup/nope" thing became a running gag, Mac's been Flanderized a bit to the point where that's almost all he says any more.

Soarin - Bland, comic relief. Soarin + pie = meme. He doesn't share the jerky qualities of Spitfire, but that relegates him to a status similar to Flash Sentry as far as character development goes. Flash is a Guard. Soarin is a Wonderbolt. Both are nice guys linked with a different member of the Mane Six.

Braeburn - Idiot. Perhaps that's too harsh, but in the episode that gave him his biggest role, he wasn't exactly the sharpest utensil in the drawer. Fanon doesn't enjoy making him might brighter, either.

Mr. Cake - Bland, comic relief. He's a married adult with twin foals. Toss in the white picket fence and a dog, and you have a stereotypical dad. Is he a good role model? Probably. He's responsible, runs his own business alongside his Wife (or maybe she runs things... wouldn't want to assume, y'know). He's almost the epitome of normalcy, except for the fact that he rents a room to Pinkie Pie.

Filthy Rich - easily manipulated, evil. Evil's stretching it, but consider that he's created a monopoly ("My Barnyard Bargains has drived the competition out of business!") and is raising a daughter with few scruples, he could certainly be portrayed that way. The fic writers who dare to make him actually evil still have a tendency to make him that way because of the surreptitious machinations of Diamond Tiara or his wife, thus leading to the easily manipulated tag. Ironic for one who can run a business so well.

Seabreeze - Idiot, Bland Sure, he had the teachable moment with Fluttershy, but he carried the Idiot Ball right up until Fluttershy rescued him from the bees. He's tagged Bland due to the fact that no one really wants to write about the Breezies, which is probably due more to their unfortunate design. Heck, Humdrum ended up being more useful than the Breezies in a pinch (both Spike's portrayal and in the IDW comics)

A couple of others not mentioned...

Flim and Flam - villains. Minor ones, sure, but still villains.

Silver Shill - once reformed, he instantly became bland. Note that he's the only Keymaster that didn't get a character tag on Fimfiction. Fleetfoot got her own tag separate from the Wonderbolts and he didn't.

Cheese Sandwich - comic relief. Lazy writers will make him an R63d Pinkie Pie.

Fancy Pants - easily manipulated, bland It depends upon the writer, but Fancy can easily slip into the same style of lazily written Superman. He's the fine, upstanding gentlecolt who loves his mother and follows the golden rule, there to help Rarity out in a pinch with his ditzy wife by his side. Sometimes Fleur calls the shots, making him the vapid do-nothing idle rich dandy.

Bulk Biceps - idiot, comic relief. Catch phrase, check. Stereotype, check. Writers who think that they break the mold by dressing him in drag and running away screaming from butterflies? Check.

Rumble - bland probably the most eligible bachelor of Ponyville Elementary, if one reads the toy ships. The Ponyville CMC, Silver Spoon, Diamond Tiara, and Dinky Doo have all been shipped with him. Babs probably would be as well, except long distance relationships only work in Equestria Girls.

4176460 They make Bulk and Skull look like geniuses. Yeah, that's how annoying they are.

4176460 They're one-dimensional idiots. Also, you seem to be the only one I know who liked that joke since I was 4.

Just gonna point out that OP's avatar is a commissioned plushie of his ponysona with a fedora and a rainbow scarf, and that his info blurb unironically uses "love and tolerate" in the year 2015.

4178061 I would hope so, otherwise putting them in the intro would seem pretty pointless.