All-Followers/Readers Survey: "Going Print," Stage Four: The Visuals: What should be drawn? · 11:06am Aug 11th, 2019
The final stage before the results are unveiled -- the choice of exactly which images should appear as cover/interior art -- is a different kind of poll: one conducted entirely in the Comments, where not only the voting is yours, but so are all the nominations.
But before we get to that, the mandatory reminder: publication polls on the short stories, novellas, and novels close at 12:01 a.m. Monday, August 12th, Eastern Daylight Time. The links for those remain:
Publication poll: short stories & novellas
Publication poll: A Mark Of Appeal & Triptych
Additionally, the third blog thread, regarding the seeking of artist commission work, plus volunteers, artist recommendations, & compilation of any extant creations, remains open for participation. In particular, no one's come forth with any of the few art pieces which are known to have once existed -- so if they can't be located soon, I'll just assume they're lost forever.
Today's blog, however, isn't so much about who's going to draw things and how much I'll wind up paying for it. It's about which images most need to be commissioned. The signature visuals of the 'verse -- if they exist.
We'll keep this simple.
* Think of one of my completed stories. (Again, here's the full list.)
* Name a moment in that story which you'd most want to see rendered as art. Something which always resonated with you, where you might even have a personal image at the ready.
* Describe that moment in a comment, then post. (Feel free to include hints on how you feel it should be rendered.)
* Anyone who comes by can then upvote or downvote that comment accordingly. The most popular nominees, by vote, will likely be the ones I try to commission for covers.
Additionally:
* You may nominate as many moments as you like, but only one per comment. That way, I can track exactly what people are voting for.
* Similarly, you may nominate multiple stories, multiple moments from the same story, or both: again, just keep it to one nomination per comment. (In particular, I need suggestions for Triptych art, but the entire completed catalog is up for grabs -- and don't neglect the one-shots & novellas.)
And that's it.
Let's see if anything stuck.
Triptych.
Princess Celestia very rarely looses her temper, much less gives way to fury. and even rarer still are the occasions where she comes to physical blows with her enemies. across a hundred worlds and innumerable words, I have never seen her react with such absolute revulsion.
That singular, crystal moment, when Celestia weighs the value of his existence against the worth of simply ending a problem, is quite possibly one of the most significant points in the story, for all that it occurs so late in it.
Well, the short story collection should have the mane 6 & Spike + probably have all the main characters in the stories
(Luna, Celestia, Diamond Tiara & Silver Spoon, Filthy Rich etc.) + NOT have anyone who isn’t in a story (Zecora, Zephyr, etc.)
It might be just a group photo (like the end of the opening) or reflect the title.
Is black & white cheaper to print than color? (Because cost is an obvious consideration)
The cover is the “puller in” & color draws more attention
Other than that, no opinion
Post Negative Comments Only:
Post Negative Comments Only is a really memorable story in general, but this is the moment I’ve always remembered most from it. Lapis standing tall on the balcony, the writhing, terrified herd below, and Cadance desperately pleading for that one pony. It’s such a powerful scene.
5103810
Currently, should voting reach the threshold number, there would be multiple short story collections. More details when voting results are revealed -- but it means considerably more than one image is needed for the one-shots and novellas. However, quite a few artists charge by number of characters depicted. A full-cast shot would fiscally wipe me out.
Covers will be full color. Interior images, should the budget permit it, will be black and white.
From Drunk Little Ponies:
5103814
As to the titles, if you’ve got one mainly Celestia & Luna
Once Upon A Time
There Were Two Sister
(referring to the first words of the pilot, of course) & the EQ flag (Unless copyright forbids?)
Perhaps the moment of Triptych's transformation? Er, Manifestation, specifically.
From 100% Move = 50% Fire:
I don’t think the piano counts as a spoiler, the emotional breakdown at the crux of the story after it is.
She closed her eyes and pushed again, harder. Her front legs nearly went out from under her.
From Barnyard Barge-ins
You specified “One to a comment” so
THIS
Is Happily Ever After?
Referring to your rep for less than happy endings
From Princesses Can't Cook
From The Bounce Test:
Triptych meeting her mother in the Shadowlands.
Didn't you just tell me that you wanted to avoid spoilers in the cover art?
This approach is excellent for interior art (colour plates near the back of the book) - the old hardcover edition of "The Hobbit" is a great example - but for cover art, it gives away plot points and removes a lot of the impact of the scene it illustrates (compare watching a film the first time to watching it the second time).
The cover art (or start-of-chapter art, if any) needs to show the setup, not the execution.
Per previous post, look through your own collection of books and movies and fics (your own or others' works) if you want confirmation.
Open challenge to readers: Try to think of a good setup picture for your favourite Estee story, and try to sell Estee on it.
Hmm. A few moments come to mind (especially Discord kneeling before Fluttershy as he asks for help,) but if we're talking about cover images specifically, I think it would have to be Celestia being told to halt by an unexpectedly occupied suit of armor in Multi-Factor Authentication. Just the right amount of absurdity to hint at what's inside.
I can get in touch with the artist and ask if it's OK to put the piece i got as a patreon reward a while back into print, if you like?
66.media.tumblr.com/1e04e77863bf190f87e4fafa31174db4/tumblr_p4vqaxYrik1tptf94o1_1280.pnj
(Mane-6 in chasm, just after accepting the mission)
(Edit: Permission granted)
So many good moments... how do I just pick one when there are so many?
I'm willing to help, but it would be much easier to track these down if you could post the dead links that you'd mentioned, and ideally a description of the content (for the ones that you remember).
It's the difference between "I read and enjoyed a fic that had a eulogy for Fluttershy; can you help me find it?" and "...The fic was written in 2012 or early 2013. Fluttershy had moved to gryphon territories and spent her life helping the poor and homeless. When she passed away, they gathered around a tombstone with her cutie mark to reminisce".
(I would actually like to find that fic again, if anyone does recognize it from the description.)
5103879
...you mean I have more faith in the group's ability to pick than you do? Now there's a rarity...
If there's anything too spoiler-laden, it'll be shifted accordingly. Not everything suggested so far would qualify.
5103916
I'll see what can be done, but it's a lot of digging. I was just hoping someone might remember.
5103908
5103884
You don't have to pick only one. You just post one per comment, for as many comments as you feel like posting. That's just to make sure that the votes can be accurately tracked.
From Unnoticed:
Also I acidently answered the short stories twice so if you see identical answers to the poll ignore one of them. I don't want to mess up the data.
5103836 You know, that seems to be the moment that stuck in my mind. Six ponies, all pushing on the piano, with a sharp drop-off in front of them. It satisfies the 'art' in anything, which is to ask a question "What is going on here" which can only be answered by reading the insides. Which I suppose leads me into the inevitable ego question: Any fanworks from the 'verse being included?
honestly, even if there were no art at all on the covers or anywhere else, your stories would be a treasure. i can easily think of the moments in several of your stories that had deep and profound meaning for me but i cant imagine how to turn those moments into art that wasn't 98% spoiler. no mater what you decide i am sure it will be amazing!
5103922 Oh, I must've missed the cover- part. In that case, I'm not sure what could provide a good, non-spoilery image. Most of your fics' greatest moments are emotional or thoughtful, which is very difficult to make visually interesting.
In this case, I'd go with that one commenter and try for an image that encapsulates the core elements of the story. Triptych's current coverart is a good starting point, as is Mark of Appeal's, though I might suggest something a little more for that one. As for the anthology, that depends heavily on the tone you want to present, and the tone you should present depends on what the majority of the anthology is comprised of: dramas, heartwrenchers, comedies, etc.
I’ll come back later with some fun scenes for illustrations, but for now I thought I’d toss out some thoughts on the wider topic:
In general, I agree with the idea that illustrations and cover art are two different things. While it’s possible to come up with a great illustration that will work as a cover, it’s not necessarily the ideal route. It also depends on what you want the cover to do for the book. A simple attractive cover can sell more copies than a more scene-accurate one. I’m reminded of the Dragonlance novels that found great popularity in the 80’s and launched with simple character portraits by Larry Elmore as the cover art:
free4kwallpapers.com/uploads/originals/2017/01/09/dragonlance-chronicles-trilogy-covers-tsr--larry-elmore-wallpaper.jpg
If you were to do 3 covers for Triptych, this might be a fine way to go... split the cast up on the different covers (possibly in a Unicorn/Pegasus/earth pony division to keep with the theme.). Pick an aspect about each that you want to highlight... Applejack rejecting her hat, Rainbow with her manuscript... little enticements of the story without being direct scenes.
There are different ways to deal with multiple characters... they don’t all have to be present and rendered to the full level as your central focus, especially if it’s not a literal scene. An artist shouldn’t charge you an arm and a leg to include silhouettes of the whole Mane 6, for example. A small, distant pony requires less effort than a large shot. Head portraits should be less than full body shots. Maybe just have the shadow of Discord looming behind the central focus character/s? Adding Dr. Gentle might be too much, but what about a Physician’s Bag with his name on it? AJ’s hat (or apples), balloons for Pinkie, feathers, fabric... there are many ways to suggest characters without showing them.
Then there are the emotional cues you might want to add. Blood immediately signals that the story is going beyond anything in the cartoon. What are the emotional states of the characters portrayed? Would depicting a distraught Twilight, her wings limp and in disarray, among rubble, shackles and restraints suggest certain events without literally depicting them?
Or you might include straight out design options... geometric triangular patterns with symbols for Unicorn, Pegasus and Earth Ponies at the points, combined with the suggestion of a clock face? Maybe a snitcher design, with a chaos pearl in the center? Elements that wouldn’t need character illustrations at all to be eye catching and suggest parts of the story.
5103845
I was thinking of that myself! But, it would need a LOT of detail and likely be expensive.
Maybe the story illustration, maybe even a cover (if it fits the title)
From Horsefeathers: the Sisters in the royal box of the theater watching “The Cocoanuts” is a fun image, with a composed Celestia and a scowling Luna.
From “Cut, Color, Carat, Clarity”: an enraged Rarity looming over the downed Ms. Voyeur, while Pinkie Pie and party-goers look on in fear.
5103922
I repeat, without the wall of text around it this time:
For cover art, (illustrating a story event) gives away plot points and removes a lot of the impact of the scene (compare watching a film the first time to watching it the second time).
You asked for the moments people found the most powerful in-story. Kind of hard for those not to give away any of the plot.
Additionally, they're powerful because you spent half a story building up to them. Without that context, they're a lot less compelling.
You remember how people were complaining that movie trailers in the last 20 years have been giving away the best parts of the movie? A similar principle applies here, for anything that comes ahead of the content it illustrates.
For colour plates at the end of the book, powerful moments are great, but my impression is that that was not what you were asking for here.
5103966
Actually I was thinking of Twilight trying on her own to move the piano. It’s a funny image, and being only one character will be cheap too. (As artists charge by the character.)
I’m trying to pick images of only one to three characters to keep the costs down.
5104021
Ah, yeah. I was focusing more on the fact that it only has a few characters in it and didn't think about how detailed the background would have to actually show it properly. Whoops.
Story: 100% Move = 50% Fire
Moment:
"Because when I finally screw it up with everypony here, I won't have anywhere to go back to!"
Description:
All of Twilight's friends scrambling to reassure her. The piano should be lurking near the edge and clearly positioned to go over the edge. Twilight should be depicted as being completely closed the possibility that her worst-case scenario won't happen. She may be imagining that it is occurring as she speaks.
Both grayscale and full-color images should be considered to accomplish the mood.
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"Princesses Can't Cook":
Celestia and Luna at the door of the kitchen, looking down at Star Anise (in the doorway, wearing chef attire). The princesses are giving puppy-dog eyes, Anise looks nervous as all heck.
(Three characters [anise full, princesses partial], simple background; with the title, it establishes that the princesses want to learn how to cook, and that this is a comedy that will be centered on Anise being very uncomfortable having to teach them to cook.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"Multi-Factor Authentication":
The current title pic is fine, but if you want a new one, I'll second the suggestion already made: Nexima, inside a pile of oversized armour, putting on her best Guard impression and challenging Celestia, who looks surprised. For bonus silliness give Nexima a pole-arm bigger than she is.
(Two characters [Nexima full, Celestia partial], complicated scenery; it establishes that this is a comedy, and that the core conflict is Celestia being challenged by an overzealous child.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"Triptych":
Minimalist teaser option: A portrait painting of Triptych's mother, with a paintbrush nearby. [One partial figure, simple background.] This takes the "Twilight" approach of trying to get the reader curious enough to read the cover blurb, with the blurb doing the rest of the work. The "aha" moment only comes after the reader has finished the story, which has pros and cons.
I'll need to think carefully about non-minimalist options. I'll post additional comments if I think of ones that are strong hooks.
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"Drunk Little Ponies":
Flitter and Rainbow at a table with many shot glasses full of clear liquid, seated but snarling at each other across the table. Spike with a checklist or notebook is watching worriedly.
(Three characters [pegasi partial, spike full]; simple background. With the title, this establishes that it's a comedy about doing unwise things while drinking, and that Spike is present.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"Scootalift":
Scootaloo and Snowflake outside on a path. Scootaloo is pointing a hoof at Snowflake, scowly-faced. Snowflake is recoiling and looking very nervous (the classic "eek, a spider" pose, with an "oh no" expression instead of fear).
(Two characters, simple background; it establishes that this is a comedy, and that Scootaloo wants something from Snowflake that Snowflake is not happy about.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"On The Application Of (etc)":
Twilight and Rarity at a table in the currently-empty town hall. Twilight is standing, with a clipboard in her field and grinning enthusiastically. Rarity is seated, slouching and scowling with the classic "storm cloud" thought balloon over her head. Optional: A placard on the table reading "Speed Dating", to make the context clear.
(Two characters, simple background; this establishes that this is a comedy about Twilight running speed-dating experiments, and that Rarity is involved and very displeased with this.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"100% Move = 50% Fire":
Twilight and Spike indoors, next to a piano. Spike is carrying the piano stool. Twilight is staring up at the piano with an "oh crud" expression.
(Two characters, simple background; this is a play on the expression that "everyone wants to move the stool, nobody wants to move the piano" when moving. It establishes that the fic is about moving, that Twilight is involved, and that there are comedic elements.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"The Free Public Mini-Libraries (etc)":
A picture of a mini-library (composition similar to the current photo). It has waves painted on it, and features the works of "Captain Bound Sterling".
(One "character", simple background; this establishes that the story is about mini-libraries, with an "aha" bonus after reading when the reader identifies that particular mini-library.)
(going through my bookmarked Estee fics)
"The Small Hours":
Spike, on a Ponyville street at night, looking up at the moon.
(One character, complex background; this establishes that this is a slice-of-life piece about Spike. There's an "aha" moment afterwards when the reader realizes that the moon foreshadows Luna.)
As so often, I wait way too long on these things and so I'm kind of jumping through the different polls.
I don't have much artistic talent or thought about rendering, but the one thing that's always stuck with me from Triptych? Applejack and Pinkie freaking brawling (and/or AJ snapping beforehand and giving Twi a beatdown). I couldn't help but imagine it playing out on a theater screen, everything shaded and dark (granted it was night IIRC), just going tooth and hoof at each other as the rest of the group looked on in horror, just to emphasize how far this whole situation had gotten from the brightness and (relative) optimism one might expect going into a feature-length MLP tale.
...actually, in terms of color/mood, it looked a lot like the argument scene in the movie. If, you know, that had been a lot gorier. (Maybe then it would have pulled higher box office numbers.
)
TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE FUN
Chef’s Portrait, of him all noble and massive in the foreground and Something vaguely resembling Nightmare in the background (not too detailed, it would distract viewers from his majesty) and a bunch of tiny pony shaped figures beneath his hooves (his co-conspirators, he was feeling generous).
Vague enough not to give away the story yet intriguing (I hope) to gain interest.
5104167
Thinking about it, a little earlier
You would need enough background to show that it was a kitchen (with stuff hanging from the ceiling), 4 figures, & a HUGE (black cherry) explosion. That might be doable
5104456
This suggests a "bookends" approach for pictures:
The cover or start-of-story picture is the "setup" picture, that gets attention while giving no more information than is in the title blurb.
At the end of the book or story, there's a "punchline" picture (or "payoff" picture, for non-comedies).
The "punchline" picture would be more complex and expensive (since it's a direct illustration of an important scene), but if you feel strongly that an illustration is needed and want to spend the money for it, arranging it as a "setup"/"punchline" scheme would work and be a value-add that the reader would pay for.
inspired by the customer disservice and the implied sonic rainbow on the library or editorial office is the close aftermath of the rainboom showing rainbow flying with pages and books that represent the titles in the collection, this for the short story collection
I’m writing this Wednesday the fifteenth. Time for an update. Are you going to print?
(Finances say that “I’ll never buy” but I worry about you)