The Dazzlings Are Not Nice · 5:35am May 21st, 2016
The original title I had for this post was "The Dazzlings Are Not Cute or Cuddly," but on reflection I realized that this statement would have been factually wrong.
The Dazzlings are indeed cute. Very cute, in a feline sort of way.
I have four cats, whom I love very much. They are very cute. They are also absolutely-ruthless predators, who being well-fed often choose to cripple but not finish them off, because it's more fun to play with a mouse desperately struggling to survive than it is to bat about a corpse.
Understand, the crippled mouse has no real chance of survival at this point -- even if it escapes, the combination of blood loss and long-term impairment will ensure that either infection or an inability to forage will end it, and probably long before it has a chance to ever breed again, if the cats have left it any functional genitalia. It's walking dead, basically. My cats like it that way.
Now, are they cuddly? Well, my cats like to cuddle me, and my wife. But then from their point of view we're super-feline beings which are -- fortunately for them -- on their side. They love us, as their surrogate parents and leaders of our little pride.
One of my cats -- big fat orange long-haired Dana -- even considers me her mate, sort of, to the extent that non-monogamous creatures such as housecats think in such emotional terms. She's spayed, so she doesn't do the full solicitation to mate behavior, but she has enough hormones left that she regularly at intervals will get all flirty and affectionate, around when she would have gone into heat. She's saying "When I go into heat, you can mate me!" -- and I'm flattered by the invitation. Her love is no less real because she's a simple creature.
The cats love and respect us, and consider us people like themselves.
They do not at all love or respect the mice.
The Dazzlings are cute to watch, and if you were a being more powerful than them, which they happened to like for some reason, they might indeed be cuddly. Why, one or all of them might even invite you to be her mate.
But you should keep something in mind about them. Everything we see of them in Rainbow Rocks, everything about their appearance, behavior and known history, just screams "predator." Back in the Ponyverse, they preyed on whole towns, cities and provinces.
Show doesn't go into it, but they probably caused massive death and destruction, by inciting murders, riots and civil wars. They probably also killed some prey personally -- the legendary Sirens lured ships onto the rocks and ate the crews.
I see nothing in their appearance or attitudes to imply that they wouldn't cheerfully eat Pony -- or Human -- flesh. They're not herbivorous land Ponies anyway -- they're Sea Ponies, probably primarily piscovores -- and unlike Megan's friends have no pact with the land Ponies, and still less with the Humanoids. And Sonata, anyway, likes tacos. With what do we normally stuff tacos?
(Yes, Sonata Dusk is really cute, and a bit ditzy. So is my Dana's sister, Samantha. She's the one who likes to tear out the guts of a mouse and leave it to shiver itself to death while she watches it twitch. I love my Sammy-Cat, but I'm glad when I'm around her that I'm not a mouse).
Indeed, the feline analogy suits them well -- they are implicitly stronger and faster than would be real Humanoid females their size and apparent age. (Watch closely the scene where Adagio grabs Sunset -- who is herself far from a wimp. She hurts Sunset). Much like cats, they are deadly and well-adapted predators.
And from their point of view, ordinary Humans and Ponies are prey. They have about as much sympathy for their prey as my cats do for the mice. They use mind control as their primary weapon, and they are much smarter than any cats ever born -- but that just makes them all the deadlier.
Watch the scene where they seduce the entire school (the "Battle of the Bands" video). They are very much enjoying themselves. They know that they are warping minds, twisting friendships into enmities, and in general inciting madness. This makes them happy, and not just because they're feeding on the hatred. They're happy because they're torturing their prey. Just like my cats.
Watch how they manipulate Trixie, by making her see them as their special friend, turning her to outright villainy. Keep in mind that Trixie is not normally an outright villain -- the only time we see Pony Trixie do anything really bad is when she's under the influence of the Alicorn Amulet -- and we don't see anything about Humanoid Trixie to imply that she's any worse than her Pony analogue.
Watch the final battle, in "Welcome to the Show." They are turning an entire audience -- at least hundreds of people, mostly children (and remember, the Dazzlings are not children, they are ancient immortal alien predators) into their mind-slaves. What were they planning on doing with them? I don't think it was going to be very nice for their audience, do you?
We haven't seen the Dazzlings since the end of Rainbow Rocks. Show may very well decide to make them into good girls, for no obvious reason.
Show did with Sunset Shimmer, and made it quite credible. But remember something important: Sunset Shimmer was an arrogant and misguided Equestrian Unicorn, who basically believed the same philosophy as and had a similar upbringing to Twilight Sparkle. Sunset Shimmer went astray for a while, but she returned to the way of the Harmony in the end. Sunset Shimmer is (in my words) "an Equestrian gentlemare, stranded amongst alien barbarians," and in the end she learned that the "alien barbarians" -- the Humanoids -- were Not So Different from the Ponies. She's civilized.
The Dazzlings are not. They are the products of an alien culture, the Sea Ponies, and on the evidence of a very aggressive and ruthless subculture of the Sea Ponies at that. (And what we've seen of other G4 Sea Ponies, such as Cassie the Kelpie and those mermares in the pirate story arc, does not convince me that the Sea Ponies are generally all that nice by Equestrian standards).
And whatever bonds or ancient pacts might induce them to be friendly to Equestria (which clearly don't apply in their case, since they were attacking either Equestria or their Three Tribes precursor culture in the flashback), they do NOT apply to the Humanoids. From their point of view, the Humanoids are just prey. Meat, on the hoof, only they don't even have hooves, or fins, so they have no moral claim on the Dazzlings.
Coo at the Dazzlings if you like. Try to cuddle them, at your own risk.
But remember. You're prey to them.
Thank you. Everyone tries to water down the sirens, but they are as cruel as the "G rating" allows.
Why exactly did you feel the need to post this?
3960551
Sonata's cruelty is the most shocking, as she's the cutest. But having observed Sammy-Cat, I think Sonata is a spot-on realistic type. Sonata's an Omega in her pride, who wants to be the Beta. She thus sucks up to Adagio, the Alpha, and quarrels with Aria, the Beta. The dynamics between the trio are very much like a small pack or pride of predators.
I do they think they love each other, though. They've been together for a very long time, and are at least conceptually "sisters." It's just that felid politics are conducted with claws, and a lot of hissing and raising of hairs. I think that Adagio's sentiments are very well expressed in this song (the other singer is Turquesa, a different Sea Mare whom she allies with to try to get her powers -- and sisters -- back):
Note particularly the contrast betwen Adagio and Turquesa's concepts of how to use their abilities to gain power from their victims. Turquesa thinks in terms of confusing them; Adagio in terms of ripping them apart. Both are, however, Sea Ponies -- and by Land Pony standards quite ruthless.
I wholly approve of this characterization.
3960562
A story idea someone else posted led me to think about what the Dazzlings might and might not do in various situations. I've been thinking about this on and off ever since I saw Rainbow Rocks -- and the popular reaction to the Dazzlings -- over a year ago, though.
I think good old fashioned slavery, hating each other but loving their new goddesses. (Once they're able to feed properly, humanity had enough hatred to feed them to levels higher than anything they could feast on in Equestria).
I hate that comic so much I sincerely do my hardest to pretend it doesn't exist. Under The Sparkling Sea I think shows the seaponies aren't that bad, while the mere ponies (yes, they're two separate tribes) tend to be more elitist. Though King Leo seems to rule over them both.
Of course, now these cats find themselves without their claws and fangs, and as small as the mice. They can't mind control the management into giving them a free hotel room.
3960570 Got it. Why are you convinced they ate ponies just because the mythical sirens were people eaters?
3960585
I don't like the comic, or Cassie, who seems to get a huge undeserved pass based on But I'm An Alien So It's Okay. But she fits the patterns of Sea Ponies being rather callous and ruthless by Land Pony standards unless you have a pact with them (which the Dream Valley Ponies notably did, probably one made -- in my world -- back when their ancestors had a real kingdom and civilization, before the Time of Extermination). I like the notion of dangerous Sea Ponies, and also run with Sev's ideas regarding one of their nations, Kelplantis.
I see them as the Ponyverse version of the Deep Ones, who -- notably for Lovecraftian creatures -- could be bargained with and trusted to keep their words, if you were careful about how you did it. The Deep Ones weren't really evil either -- just alien and arrogant. There are one or two good Mythos stories about sympathetic Deep Ones, too.
The Sea Ponies eventually -- tribe by tribe -- have their own Reconciliations with the Equestrians in the SWSV. It happens more gradually, because they don't have their Chrysalis to drive them into Celestia's arms.
The Dazzlings, though, are evil by Sea Pony standards. At least now they are, though they may have started out as nicer beings, as in your story about them.
I have no idea what's going to happen to my Dazzlings in the end. I don't want to decide until I see the fourth Equestria Girls movie, because I suspect the Dazzlings may make a comeback. They've notably disappeared without explanation, at the end of Rainbow Rocks.
3960586
Yes ... there is that. The Dazzlings aren't as dangerous now, though I bet they still have their implied moderately superhuman strength and speed. But without mind control they'd have to run great risks to attack, rather than trick, humans. I wonder if they can feed on hatred at all, without their gems?
3960588
That's actually why I think they're cannibals, or semi-cannibals (I never said they ate other Sea Ponies). But they might not be -- the cannibalism could be a metaphor for their destruction of love and friendship. I do notice that they have long nails and sharp looking teeth, and the mannerisms of beings who are willing to use them in unpleasant ways.
3960594
I imagine a slow death horrible by starvation.
And I just like King Leo as a character.
3960585 I really like Under The Sparkling Sea. Nice art and a whole lot of interesting world building.
3960597 Got it. What do you think might happen now that they're effectively normal humans?
3960601
Glad to see you're active on FIMFiction again, and still watching me.
Are you going to resume your stories as well?
I find myself in agreement with most of this; the Dazzlings were plainly pretty horrible people. One thing I noted at the end of the film was a tactical error on the part of Twilight: the Dazzlings are not "three harmless teenage girls" they were ancient amoral (or at least in possession of rather blue and orange morality) emotional predators with magic, now they are ancient amoral emotional predators without magic.
That won't make them "harmless." It certainly won't make them nice. Indeed, as they get desperate, they may become very nasty and very dangerous indeed.
3960602
I think that their first priority after assuring their continued day-to-day survival (I have no idea how they supported themselves in the first place, but suspect it wasn't by any pleasant means) will be to find a way to regain their powers.
Understand that they are normally probably very good at keeping a low profile. Their public display in Rainbow Rocks was them seizing a very rare opportunity to gain greater power. Normally, they probably just hid in the shadows and fed off what minor amounts of hatred they could stir.
Their superhuman strength and speed, coupled with what were probably superior versions of Humanoid natural weaponry (their teeth and nails) and definitely superior predatory initiative (watch the scene where they circle Sunset Shimmer) gives and gave them a slight advantage over normal Humanoids, but not enough that they could live by catching and killing Humanoids over the long run -- some of their victims would escape or manage to harm them. They probably preyed in some subtler manner to acquire funds. I can think of a few ways which Adagio and probably Aria could execute, and Sonata if they could get her to keep her mouth shut at the critical moments.
One of the most obvious low-level techniques would be "rolling" victims. This means pretending to offer sex for money and then -- when they got the victim alone and drunk -- knocking him out and taking his valuables. If done right, this is a fairly low-risk crime for the perpetrator, and with three of them in concert, each of them unexpectedly stronger and more dangerous than a full-grown male Humanoid, they could pretty much get away with it forever -- if they were smart enough not to revisit the scenes of their crimes.
Ooo, I'm so swamped. Not right away!
3960608
One of Twilight's consistently displayed weaknesses as a leader is that she's too nice -- too willing to think well of defeated foes and give them second chances. This sometimes works well, when the foe actually isn't that evil (Luna was crazy and/or possessed rather than truly evil, and Sunset Shimmer was simply on a bad path) but it can backfire in dealing with a genuinely monstrous foe.
I can understand why Celestia's more tolerant of that failing than she would be of the opposite one -- Twilight being too ruthless and vindictive. But it is a character flaw, and I think seen as such by the writers as well.
3960611 Got it.
3960594 Why do you think of sea ponies as dangerous when the G1 seaponies were so friendly?
3960627
Different Age, different cultures. And the Dream Valley Ponies had a Pact with that particular group of Sea Ponies. With one major and two minor Cataclysms intervening.
I didn't say Sea Ponies couldn't be friendly.
3960627
To elaborate -- in the SWSV, the time of The Megan was six thousand years ago. In between then and now, the high civilization of the Age of Wonders rose and fell in the Cataclysm; the Crystal Empire and other nations arose from the wreckage and some of them fell in the Coming of the Ice; Equestria as a land was founded by the Three Tribes; Discord ruined the world and brought a thousand years of chaos; Celestia and Luna established the Realm of Equestria, Luna went mad and was banished for another millennium, and during that millennium of her exile Celestia built up Equestria into an advanced civilization almost the equal of the Age of Wonders. A lot's happened between then and now.
3960629 Got it. What did you think of Under the Sparkling Sea?
3960634 Got it. What would the ancient sea ponies have been like if the Dream Valley ponies hadn't had a Pact with them?
I've said it before, I like to play Dazzlings as MLP vampires.
The sort of VtM, or Anne Rice type of vampires - sensual, predatorial and hedonistic, discounted by the fact that since it's a kid's show they're rather unlikely to murder you.
I mean in Rainbow Rocks they're conquering the world and brainwashing teenagers, but they are pretty much doing it out of sheer boredom of a low-magic world where they've been for hundreds of years, not so much malice.
Not in the canon movie they don't. They just seem to make it out like Rainbooms got their place unfairly at the cost of Trixie's "Illusions" (which is sorta true), but they don't pretend to be besties or anything.
They are not well-adapted to Human world. In Human world without equestrian magic they are weak and starving, as shown in the beginning of the movie.
As Terry Pratchett put it, "If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember." And the Dazzlings ooze style, much like Chrysalis. But at the end of the day, both are emotional parasites who'd only keep you alive as long as you kept being a useful food source and potential cat's paw, if you'll pardon the pun.
Especially notable is comparing how Sunset and the sirens reacted to getting harmony-blasted. Sunset blubbered and apologized. The sirens immediately tried to control the crowd again. No sorrow, no remorse. And why would they show any? They were just doing what comes naturally.
This leaves Twilight in the same leaky boat as Batman. Anyone not hampered by an unhelpful no-killing code would do the right thing and straight up kill the Joker. Batsy doesn't see it as a killer ridding the world of a murderer so he's thus essentially Mister J's sidekick.
I'm not gonna lie, when I read this I immediately thought of one day when I was four that I witnessed the neighbor's cat jump into one of my house's window well, and chase and kill a mouse in there. Don't worry, I wasn't traumatized--I was actually cheering the cat on! I was a weird kid.
In any case, those three are terrifying. That cat analogy is perfect--sure, they're cute... unless you're something that could be considered lunch.
If there's any interpretation I don't like, it's the interpretation of Sonata being the "innocent one who was forced into it by the other two." Like, did they even see Sonata's wicked grin during the climax of Rainbow Rocks? That tells me that she was completely willing to do it, because, surprise surprise, she's a siren and probably would want to feed on folks without the other two! She's just at the bottom of their little hierarchy because she's not nearly as smart as Adagio.
3960783
Oh, I love my kitties too. And approve of them hunting mice. We'd be overrun without them, since we're on the bottom floor of a house with small unclosable apertures to the outside. We tell them they're good kitties and mighty hunters and give them pets and cuddles when they kill a mouse.
I guess if I were some sort of semi-divine or at least seriously super-human being and the Dazzlings were my friends who preyed on something I didn't like, I'd tell them they were good Sirens and mighty hunters and give them pets and cuddles when they killed it. Only thing is I'm not, I'm the thing that they would like to prey upon.
I agree. That's totally based on the logic of "all nice girls are stupid girls" and then from that rather nasty assumption proceeding to the unwarranted "therefore all stupid girls are nice girls." Aside from being an unwarranted assumption and faulty deductive reasoning, this is most definitely untrue in My Little Pony, as all of the Mane Six (and their Humanoid analogues, and Sunset Shimmer from Rainbow Rocks on are nice, and none of them are stupid.
I think some fans, especially male ones, imagine making a pet of Sonata Dusk. This strikes me as a dangerous enterprise even were she willing, as we've seen in-show that Sonata can be nasty even in social interaction with others of her own kind whom she probably loves. It would be rather like making a pet of a mountain lion; possible, but you'd better be a good animal handler, and know the risk you're getting into.
And Dusk Sonata, of course, is much smarter than any mountain lion, and hence less predictable.
3960687
Celestia, of course, also notably prefers to be merciful. I'm guessing that Celestia, over time, has learned when she can and cannot get away with mercy. Celestia was notably merciful to Luna (whom she forgave) and Discord (whom she's given two second chances). Twilight has been notably merciful to Starlight Glimmer (Celestia clearly gave Twilight the task of judging her).
They weren't particularly merciful to Sombra, Chrysalis or Tirek though.
3961097 They know better. Luna had gotten herself possessed and Discord is pretty much the Squire of Gothos. The others were too dangerous to be merciful to.
3960650
Very much so.
I don't know who or what, if anyone or anything, they take as lovers or friends beyond themselves. We don't know enough about the culture they came from or their personalities outside of the limited situation shown in Rainbow Rocks. But I bet they don't much respect anyone whom they don't also fear, at least a little -- based upon what I've seen of their internal power dynamics. And I certainly wouldn't want to be around them if they didn't respect me.
I personally think they are murderous, it's just not being shown explicitly.
One perfectly-rational motive for them to abstain from killing during most of Rainbow Rocks is that they are getting what they want without needing to run the risk of murder. Adagio and Aria, at least, are smart enough to realize that if they start killing people they can't just stick around and expect to escape without consequences. (One reason why Sonata's stupidity may make her more dangerous than her sisters is that she may not grasp long-term consequences as well).
They clearly are trying to kill the Rainbooms in the battle.
They're not displaying demi-divine levels of power, but they have been surviving, probably for longer than a millennium. And each of them is individually stronger and faster than a Humanoid.
3961183
They are mind-control predators, the sort that would abhor direct violence. Unlike say Equestrian unicorns, or even more pegasi, their magic is not versed towards direct confrontation, but rather manipulation, perhaps illusions.
So for them, if they got into a direct fight, it is already a loss, even if they win a battle.
Sort of like White Court vampires in the Dresden Files.
3961285
Well yes, they are less dangerous without their powers. But that doesn't mean they're "harmless teenage girls" without their abilities. Among other things, they have predatory dispositions, are essentially amoral toward anything that isn't one of their sisters, have centuries of experience and skills, and are individually stronger and faster for their size than normal Humanoids. I think, for instance, that they're still quite capable of killing, even unarmed, and could easily kill if armed -- both in the sense of having the capability and having the intent.
3961303
No doubt they're capable, it just would not be their preferred method of conflict resolution.
They would not be acting directly violent unless forced.
Same as they manipulated Trixie into dropping the Rainbooms, even though there would be no problem for Aria or Sonata do the same thing themselves.
3961323
Well yes, the Sirens prefer indirect rather than direct action where ever possible. Partially because they're mind controllers, and partially because Adagio's in charge and Adagio is smart. They staged their attempt to take over CHS in such a way that -- if nobody figured out about the mind control -- they hadn't done a single thing that was patently illegal or even immoral, and all the blame would fall on other people. Most notably Trixie.
Absent their mind control powers, they would probably try to manipulate others by more mundane methods. Of course, I'm not sure how well this would work for them without the mind control. I'm guessing that they have some skill at this, though, because until very recently their mind control powers were much weakened by the low-mana environment, anyway.
3961285 Agreed, very much like White Court Vampires. Quite capable of violence and doing physical harm but never the less it's something they prefer to avoid.
Completely agree with all of this, especially with the taco part (I even make a drawing out of that idea some time ago, see it HERE and it should be more exciting, I think, if more people instead tries to write about how Dazzlings would try to regain back their powers, instead of the usual befriending trope (Again, I have several ideas about how would they do it)
My only difference with your ideas here is that, I like to see the comics become more canon, in which they are visibly transported into a modern looking world. My take about this is that they have been only banished here for like 30-40 years, and each of them had taken a liking about a particular decade's hit music, which were affected in their current outfit (80's Glam for Adagio, 90's Grunge for Aria, and 00s Pop for Sonata)
3961009 I agree. That's totally based on the logic of "all nice girls are stupid girls" and then from that rather nasty assumption proceeding to the unwarranted "therefore all stupid girls are nice girls." Aside from being an unwarranted assumption and faulty deductive reasoning, this is most definitely untrue in My Little Pony, as all of the Mane Six (and their Humanoid analogues, and Sunset Shimmer from Rainbow Rocks on are nice, and none of them are stupid.
That may also have to do with the nasty attitude seen in a lot of fiction, be it literature, animation, film, etc., that Good is Either Stupid Or Hypocritical. Seriously, how often do you see or hear someone's decent actions either treated as stupid or self-serving (I.e,, 'they only give to charity to look good' or the like).
And it's helped even less by the at times very unrealistic idea of 'good' espoused by a lot of pro writers in their work. To slightly paraphrase C.S. Lewis, they seem to think that the universal standard for good is the sort of behavior that would win approval on a prosperous peacetime suburban street. You're a fan of history like me, and you probably know how rare that's been through human history.
I think some fans, especially male ones, imagine making a pet of Sonata Dusk. This strikes me as a dangerous enterprise even were she willing, as we've seen in-show that Sonata can be nasty even in social interaction with others of her own kind whom she probably loves. It would be rather like making a pet of a mountain lion; possible, but you'd better be a good animal handler, and know the risk you're getting into.
I think it'd be the other way around. You'd be Sonata's pet, until she got tired of you.
And I do have to wonder how the Dazzlings (or Chrysalis, for that matter) would react to discovering that some of their prey actually liked them or saw them as sexy. I imagine it'd be a mix of self-satisfied preening and amused contempt at the idea that it would change how they treated you. "If you really liked me, you'd let me do whatever I want with you."
Yeah, one of my favorite stories has Adagio give this description of Sonata: