Why is _Undying Love_ so Unpopular? · 9:04am Apr 7th, 2015
Recently I posted the first, fairly self-contained chapter of Undying Love, a story about the love between Celestia and Discord. The first chapter, "Idyll on a Hill," is set around Paradise Estate and is essentially a sweetly-sentimental chapter about Celly revealing her love to Dissy, and them winding up entwined on a hill making out together for hours. It's one of the lightest and fluffiest things I've ever written, though the story as a whole is a Tragedy -- as should be apparent to anyone who notices that Discord is decorating Celestia's garden as a lawn ornament in the Season Two Opener.
Amazingly, this story has gotten a 16:10 like:dislike ratio so far -- 1.60, the worst I've seen for anything I've ever posted on this site. It's worse than Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason, which has a 73:15 like:dislike ratio and is hence running at 4.87. What's strange about this is that this story outlines the exact same love triangle as in Undying Love, with Lulu having had an immense unrequited crush on Dissy from foalhood, and Dissy feeling entirely-requited love for Celly.
Seriously, Chapter 11, "Dissy's Youth Remembered" makes it exceedingly obvious that they became lovers -- and that Luna was jealous of her sister. It's also obvious that this somehow helped cause Dissy's original Face Heel Turn, due to something which Luna did which she now blames herself for and bitterly regrets -- neither the first nor the last such mistake in a life marred by some seriously-flawed social decisions, as she's willing to admit to Twilight Sparkle.
Yet for some reason few seem to be upset about this in Divine Jealousy, while it really pisses people off in Undying Love. Can anyone -- especially anyone who's actually downvoted it -- tell me why? Don't worry, I won't respond to hearing that you downvoted UL by downvote-bombing your stories -- I don't work that way.
Anyone?
Just my 2 bits, I haven't read the story, but:
A section of people hate Discord x Celestia. Thus you will get downvote bombed just for writing a story about it. [My only story, DSS got 7 downvotes in its first hour after being uploaded becuase it's humanized]
Beyond that, your other story probably introduces the Dis/Cel relationship later on in the story instead of at the start, so people had time to settle into your story before the relationship was brought up, buffering you from the knee-jerk reactions that a lot of people have, and the downvote bombers don't tend to put effort into checking out later chapters of a story [DSS is now up to 30 downvotes, but it has been sitting at 28 for six months, it only got hte last two in the last two months, and one of them was for how I handled Trixie]
But that's about all I can offer for suggestions, hopefully you don't get discouraged by petty people!
Well, some people may not have read Divine Jealousy or your other works before this one. Some may be frustrated by how you started this story when you have eighteen incomplete ones, seven of which have only one chapter, and downvoted it in some form of silent criticism. Or you may have just attracted an abnormal number of downvote trolls, like a swarm of bloodthirsty Roman emperors.
Of course, I didn't downvote it, so I'm basically guessing.
I think 2955806 got it right. The story isn't tagged as a side story to Divine Jealousy, but anyone dipping into Undying will be immediately lost if they haven't read Divine Jealousy, or Warlorn's POVerse, or Lost Cities, or the bulk of your blog essays. This is right in the first section:
Even before that, there's the description, which marks this story as something backed by more headcanon than most readers can easily swallow:
The story is about a happy slice of in Celly and Dissy's doomed and all-to-brief relationship, but typical drive-by readers won't get that far before assuming they'll be lost without the backstory. It stands on its own, of course, though I'm guessing more than a few won't make it far enough to realize that.
Full disclosure: I didn't vote and only skimmed it. I'm 16 chapters into Divine Jealousy right now (which I hadn't read before since it lacked the almighty TwiLuna tag) and I wouldn't even attempt the related stories before finishing it.
2955805 I was going to say that most of it's annoyed shippers. It's true that Divine Jealousy works into Dislestia very slowly, and doesn't make it the focus of the story, but then again, it starts with--i's too tired to put in a spoiler tag, but another ship. Blatantly.
It may be that your regular readers, like me, haven't gotten to it yet. I'm far behind on stories by some of my favorite writers. And I know many have been waiting for new chapters of ongoing stories, though I wouldn't think that worthy of a downrate.
"Good Morning, Beautiful" collected seven downrates in the first hour of its existence. I had no outstanding unfinished fics. It wasn't necessary to have read "Goodbye, Boneless." And I'm biased, of course, but I think it's one of my better stories. I think it must have been shippers, but it still stung. And it was probably the only time I actually went crying to a friend about downrates and feeling terrible.
So I'm guessing shippers.
EDIT: Ubdying Love states flat out that it's going to be a romance in its very title. I rest my case.
2955942
Wow, that one got seven downvotes right out of the gate? That's a really great story. And now it's running at 259:8! Yes, I've noticed myself that stories tend to get almost all the downvotes they ever will in the first day or two of their existence.
(everyone reading this, Good Morning, Beautiful is a sweet and lovely romantic tale, one of the best in that genre I've read on this site -- you should all check it out and show your appreciation!).
In both cases, you're right, it was probably a matter of the controversial love being very obvious from the start. Undying Love, based on the title and major characters, is very obviously a Romance involving Celestia, Discord and Luna, I start the story with them cuddled together on a hill, and the picture shows them sitting on a hill together. In contrast, Divine Jealousy starts with the Bulk Biceps / Fluttershy / Discord love triangle; it doesn't get into Dislestia until, really, half of the way into the story'sprojected length. And GMB is very obviously CheesePie, starting with the picture and story blurb.
I only asked because really, the whole issue of what offends fans sometimes mystifies me. Though the story I have which garnered the most downvotes, An Epistolary Legal Consultation Between Princesses (27), was one for whom the reason for the downvotes was apparent -- it was an unauthorized sequel and Take That to Stuck, and pssed off Stuck's fans.
2955942 agreed Scoots. Shippers be fucked. Besides, I am also beginning to bring up Celestia x Discord, I am doing it with great care, and quiet references. Hell, I'm not even calling discord by name, but rather Cielan [a De Lancie reference] since in my own headcannon, Discord wasn't known as Discord way back when he was Celestia's consort. Just my two bits of course.
2955991 I only asked because really, the whole issue of what offends fans sometimes mystifies me.
I have to agree. I wonder just as much why they like certain things sometimes.
Like why Wolf in Pony's Clothing, given it's very weird premise (a wolf, wearing a pony costume as Rarity, hiding out in Ponyville) got so many more likes than My Little Balladeer, which I think is a better story even though the readers quite obviously disagree. Though that can just be my own biases and preferences showing.
And then there's Diamond Tiara versus the Changeling Invasion which is oddly popular given that it has a mostly-canon Diamond Tiara as the heroine trying to save her om from the horde of Changelings invading Ponyville and she ends up getting turned into one by her already-turned mom. Do people really love seeing that nasty little filly have such horrible things happen to her?
Then again compared to the likes of yourself or many another writer here on FIMfic I'm not getting very many views period. Ad with the latest story, I think that as time passes and more people read it the likes will seriously outnumber the dislikes.
2955991 since posting here, I've received two more downvotes on my story, a shock considering, as I said above, I have sat at 28 and 29 downvotes for months now. As my story doesn't have any new featured tags, and hasn't been reviewed by anyone, I can only guess these were random downvotes. It is only annoying because both downvotes left no comments, so I am left as blind as you are on why all the sudden hate.
I couldn't say why your story got down-votes. I didn't read it, though, so of course I didn't vote either way. I tend to avoid shipping stories for the same reason I don't read paperback romance novels. If a romance occurs in the background of a story while something more interesting is happening, that's OK, but with an title like "Undying Love" ...Sorry--I'm not going to click that.
Maybe some other readers were biased by the somewhat sappy title, and down-voted it on the weight of that bias alone?
2956699r
Wasn't me-- I just upvoted it.
Good story in many ways, though I see you really like breasts.
2956328
I actually prefer to imagine her maturing and growing up into a constructive though still-bitchy mare. I don't quite see her becoming nice, but I could see her coming to respect the strength of others, and developing into a business leader who does a lot of good in the process of making even more money than did her father. Maybe the pioneer of the first interplanetary chain superstores, connected through the Gate railway system?
The problem with assuming "She's nasty now so she'll grow up evil, evil, EVIL!" is that mere-nastiness doesn't translate a capability for genuine evil. Diamond Tiara is nasty, yes, but she's also mostly innocent. I have trouble seeing her, say, deliberately driving somepony to suicide and being happy about it, let alone intentionally murdering somepony. If she were evil, it would be another matter.
One might argue that she does things which could hav[e that effect, but I see no evidence either that such is her intent, or that any of the CMC are so emotionally weak that "Diamond Tiara doesn't like us!" is likely to drive them to suicidal despair. Indeed, if they were so weak, they would be unlikely to have a future as heroines of the Shadow Wars.
2957884 Well first of all, thank you! And secondly, don't worry, I go entire chapters without bringing them up, except for the occasional important scene.
On the Silver Spoon topic, I think it's rather basic: everyone had a kid in their youth who seemed to have everything you didn't, so hating SS cones natural to most people. Just a quick 2bits but whatever!
To be fair to new member they would need backgrounds from others stories to get half the stuff your referencing so it MAY if you give a link to your other discord so that new reader can get a proper understand going with this.
I for one hope you continue writing it.
FWIW the story of mine that has the most downvotes is the one with "romance" and "sex" tags. Mad shippers be crazy, yo.