The Writing Skill that Nobody Talks About · 9:19pm Feb 25th, 2013
First, I have to apologize to Bad Horse. He realized most of the things I'm saying more than half a year ago, at least, and tried to say them to me. It took me this long to process the ideas, and have that moment of understanding when common sense suddenly made sense. So Bad Horse is smarter than I am, but I can write a lot of words about this now.
Dan Brown. Stephanie Myers. Danielle Steel. James Patterson. What do these people have in common? Well, they write books. Specifically, they write books that writers and critics hate. And they write books that a lot of readers love. They are living proof that writing well, as defined by writers and critics, has nothing to do with what readers like to read.
I'll say up front: I consider myself more in that class of authors, at least in terms of my fanfic. (I'm told that some people disagree, but this is my opinion, and I'm sure other people agree with me.) I'm unlikely to be listed among the great writers on the site. EqD couldn't care less about me. I do not push the boundaries of fan fiction, or write heart-stoppingly beautiful prose. Sometime I barely write adequate prose, and I rarely have all of my commas in the correct places. But I write entertaining stories that people like to read, about popular subjects and characters, and I'm pretty darn good at it. And that is a skill that's worth something.
In talking to a few people over the past few weeks, I've realized that writing commercially is a part of a writers tool kit, just like description or pacing or characterization. And it's a tool that writers love to turn up their noses at. They say, “yes, well, if I wanted to write that kind of thing I could have all the readers. But I stick to my vision, and practice my art in obscurity until people who recognize my genius come along.”
That would be fine if they meant it. But none of them do. All of them want readers. All writers want readers. The silly thing is that we all want them, but we aren't allowed to work for it. As I put it to someone in a PM the other day:
It's interesting that if I tried to write something artistic people would applaud me for pushing myself as a writer, but if someone artistic writes something specifically to try to be commercial there's this stink of selling out. You'd like an audience as much (or maybe more than) I'd like prestige. . . crazy world we live in.
I'm going to try to make it a little less crazy by talking about things writers can do to make their stories more commercial. Not better. This has nothing to do with quality, you will write stories exactly as well as you currently do. It only has to do with getting typical, average readers to click your story, then click the scroll bar and read it. And you guys don't even have to admit that you're paying attention to these things! You can keep your writer cred, I won't tell anyone.
And if you're a writer, and you scoff at the very idea, ask yourself how you'd feel if you were trying to convince someone with bad characterization that maybe they need to brush it up. What attitude should they have? “No, everything I do is my vision!” or “Huh, maybe I'll try a few things.”? So if you don't have as many followers as you would like, maybe you should try a few things.
(I haven't found a good place to say this yet, so I'll put it here before I really get rolling: Yes, there are writers who are both great writers and widely read, both on this site and in real life. Yes, people sometimes write seemingly non-commercial things and become popular anyway. I am in no way saying that the things I'm going to talk about guarantee success, or that not doing them means that you won't succeed. But they are more likely to succeed, and they aren't going to affect how good your writing is.)
First, when you're considering ideas, realize that certain ideas will sell and certain ones probably won't. Not every story you write has to be one that will sell, but if you want people to read those, then you should probably try to write a few that will sell to draw them in. So here are some things that seem to sell, from what I've observed:
Genre:
Clop. Sex sells, we all know this. And the site helpfully provides a tag that basically promises “there's sex in this story,” making clop the easiest thing to find on this site. People who want clop know what they're looking for, they look for it, and they find it. And there are a lot of them.
Comedy. What is the one thing that every person who visits the site has in common? We all watch a comedy cartoon. Some people might also like sad or dark or bittersweet fics, but some won't. But pretty much all of us like comedy in some way, shape or form.
The Feels. Your “My Little Dashie,” your "last of the mane six," your "Applejack's dead parents." These barely need a story, just a set up to slather on emotion. And people eat it up.
Romance. In the real world, no matter how many people are buying books, the romance publishers are always doing just fine. In fandom, shipping stories about popular ships will be a reliable source of likes and faves well after they've left the front page. Like it or not, people like romance, and the people who like it just can't get enough of it.
Characters:
The mane six/the CMC. Once again, everyone who comes here watches the show, so they all have an interest in those characters to some extent.
Twilight Sparkle. I don't know why this is. Maybe because she's the main character? Maybe because we're a bunch of geeks? Whatever the reason, I don't think I've ever seen a time when there wasn't a Twilight fic of some kind in the feature box. Keep an eye out, if you don't believe me.
Lyra, Derpy, Octavia, and Vinyl Scratch. Fandom favorites. People love these characters, and fanfic is their only real source.
Big Mac and Spike. Personally, I think this is because most of the fandom is male, and identifies with these characters. Once again, they're not getting much of them on the show, so fanfic is where they turn.
ETA: Celestia and Luna go on this list as well.
If you're trying to work on your commercial potential, take a look at those characters and genres. They can all be written well. There is nothing inherently better, writing wise, about a Dark/Sad fic about an OC than there is about a Comedy/Romance about Twilight and Rainbow Dash. But I can promise that a TwiDash romantic comedy is going to get an unknown author more views than a moody, dark OC fic.
So, lets say you have an idea for a story that might sell. You're setting out to write it, and of course the only thing you can do is write it well. Right?
Not quite.
The first 500 words:
Bad Horse, through his studies of this site, has found that the first 500 words of a story are crucial. That's where the reader decides if they're going to keep reading or turn away. This can be problematic, because unless you're starting in media res, the first 500 words of your story are probably set up. You're probably starting with a nice, normal scene before you really get into things.
So, if this is true of most stories out there, what are people looking for in those first 500 words? What makes one story more readable than another? (Another of Bad Horse's findings, by the way, is that it was not grammar. Once grammar is at a certain point, most of the reading public has no problem with misplaced commas or hyphens instead of em dashes.)
I have some theories, based on noticing something about a popular but not-very-good fic I was looking at, and checking some other popular but not-very-good fics, some good popular fics, and some good but underrated fics.
My theories:
First, openings are places where you are famously allowed to tell. “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” and all that. Readers are coming in with a blank slate, and catching them up is a good idea. They aren't emotionally invested yet, they're still deciding if they want to be. Seriously, check out a list of famous opening lines: There's so much telling going on that even the famously evocative great writers are getting in on it.
You can go back to showing right after you set the scene, but telling is going to grab the reader more. They know what's going on right away, and can set out on figuring the next bit with a clue. It's frequently hard to show a sudden shift in tone without at least some telling, and the beginning of a story is the ultimate sudden shift in tone: You go from nothing to something in one sentence.
The second thing I think people look for in the first 500 words is characterization. Your story is going to rest on your characters. In original fiction, or using original characters, this means getting a main character on the page and making them interesting right away. In fanfic we have an odd balance: people know the characters already, and are interested in them. But they probably don't know the author. So your first 500 words is your audition: How do you write Twilight or Vinyl Scratch? Will the reader be able to care about them? You have to give them a sign that you've got the character down.
If your characterization is muted, or off (even if there's a good reason for it) in the first 500 words, the chances are readers are not going to stick around to see what you can do. It's a good idea to throw something in your first scene that's “typical” for the character, to prove you know how they're supposed to act, even if you're then going to show how they're acting different because they're in love/secretly a changeling/whatever.
Finally, get to the story. Almost every writing book ever will point out a problem authors often have of starting the story a few scenes before the story actually starts. Obviously, as I said before, some set up is allowed to give the readers time to adjust to the setting, but knowing what your conflict is, when it becomes a problem for the character, and getting to that point as soon as possible is more likely to get readers interested than a long scene of a perfectly normal picnic.
As one last, little note, I'd also advise against extremes in paragraph length. Opening with a long, epic description, or a long dialogue of short sentences is probably going to turn off some people in each case. You probably want a few, nice, 4-7 sentence paragraphs in your first 500 words somewhere.
Okay, so you picked a good subject. Your first 500 words are awesome and gripping. No one who looks at your story will be able to put it down! You even wrote the rest of the story too!
Ready for fame? Not quite. Because first you have to let people know that you did those things. And there are a few things that people are going to notice right away.
The First Glance:
Title. I have no idea of how to come up with a good title, but I can tell you how to know if you found one: Imagine looking at a list of fics, just by the title. No art, no description. Would you want to know what this story is about, if all you knew was the title? That's a good title.
Description. There's no magic way to make these interesting or exciting, and really, you don't need to. What you need to do with a description is to let people know that the story contains those subjects they're looking for. Let them know what characters it's about, let them know what genre it is, and if you do have a creative, interesting story to go with it you can throw in a little of that too. Make sure it's spell checked, and you're good.
Picture. This is actually more important than the title and description. You need a picture. It needs to be of ponies, front and center, and as big as you can make them. If those ponies are ones people are interested in, even better. If it's an original, finished looking picture, that's the best. But even if you can't get a good original picture, make sure you have some ponies there.
Advertising. Put your story in groups. If you have friends who preread the story, politely ask them to blog it for you. On top of that, get your name out there. Post in groups, comment on other stories or mod posts. Who knows where someone might see your name and click it, and end up on your user page.
Now, let's say you do all of this. Does it mean you'll make the feature box? No. But you will have a better chance. And the stories on your user page will be ones that people are more likely to click on, if they happen to find you commenting somewhere. Building a readership isn't only a matter of making the feature box. I made the feature box and got about 70 followers out of it. I currently have about 450. Those followers built up over time, thanks to multiple fics and projects, so now I have a respectable audience. It's a nice thing to have, for a writer. Even if you're a really, really good writer who sees writing as an art.
Interesting... but I had a bit of a tough time following it all.
that is why i love amateur every day reviews versus some guy who has a title and technical know how of what is a good story. Shakespeare is good, i will admit that, it's kinda obvious, but i don't enjoy him. so i don't read his work.
in my eyes your better then Shakespeare simply because i like your work......simple. no stupid technical knowledge required to know that if it isn't a science book, it better be entertaining or it isn't worth jack. it's either for education or entertainment...or it has no use to the reader.
864830
Sorry. I had a lot of info I wanted to point out, and my transitions are a little bumpy. Not my best blog writing, but at least the info is there.
If there's anything that wasn't clear, please, by all means, ask what I meant!
864857 I think a part of it might be my splitting headache, combined being distracted by music (Rush... always good shit) and trying to edit a friend's story for him lol
Very true. Looking back, I realize why one of my stories didn't do as well as I wanted.
Glad to see someone putting up the helpful hints. But it is such a fine line. I want readers, because I'm an author. But I want to write the ideas I have. My TwiLuna fic has done far better than any of my others, for obvious reasons. My other stories, which I'm much happier with, are doing horribly. It's hard to know where to go. Do I want more readers, In the hopes they read other stuff of mine, or do I keep writing what I want, and try to slowly build my readership?
That's was a very well written essay or blog entry or whatever someone might call it. I don't think I'll ever be considered a great writer of any generation, but I know have a lot of people on here who have enjoyed my stories and that makes me feel good. Plus I like what I write and I just want to be able to entertain people. You're a hell of a writer. MUSTACHES!
864879
Perhaps the answer is in working on it incrementally? For example, lets say the story you want to write is a dark, moody OC fic. See if you can include a canon character in the background, or as a subplot. Make sure your first 500 words stand out. Make sure you have a good title and description, and good cover art.
Even if your ideas aren't commercial, you can still make the story you have as commercial as you can get it.
This is nice because it highlights the little details of what many people will say: "Write for your audience."
Though it's cruel to say, it's plausible to generalize the audience on this site, and as you've pointed out: they want certain things. If you want popularity, views, and recognition, then give them what they want. If you still want to hold true to your "pushing-the-boundaries" vision, wait until you have a large enough audience, then branch out.
Of course, if a writer just wants to write for the sheer joy of writing. Try the prompt games. You have a dedicated audience already and it's a great way to try out different things (this is a subtle hint for people to go write AppleDash or TwiDash in their respective groups).
I've talked about this sort of thing at length before, in discussing the purpose and goal I set forth to achieve through my writing. First and foremost I think of myself as an entertainer rather than an author. Artistic, authorial works can be very entertaining, but they can also be boring. Entertaining works can be high brow, low brow, serious, or silly. Whenever I sit down to write, my primary goal is to not be boring. Most of my work has fallen somewhere inside the story guidelines you've given for getting attention (I love me some Twidash), but I do play with mass-appeal expectations from time to time; dark adventure that kills off a main character isn't the favorite sort of story by any means, even if it is Twidash. That said, my dark adventure did get featured after chapter four and three of my other projects have as well, so I must be doing something right in terms of appealing to people.
Some of your advice reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's self-assessment checklist, which is something I try to live by in my work:
Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.
Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.
Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
Every sentence must do one of two things—reveal character or advance the action.
Start as close to the end as possible.
Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them—in order that the reader may see what they are made of.
Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.
Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.
I'm afraid I'm probably a C student at best following these guidelines, but that's not gonna stop me from trying to get that A. They say an individual must practice a craft for ten thousand hours of their life to truly become a master at it. If I'm even a tenth the way there, I'd be terribly surprised.
There are a lot of things about this blog I want to disagree with, but I don't think I can in good conscience. Everything you've written is correct, an ugly truth.
It's interesting to me that you have comedy up there as one of the main drivers. To me, it seems like the fans love sad/tragic stories. I haven't done a scientific survey or anything, but I feel like I see far, far more sad stories getting a lot of attention, rather than comedies.
I will admit that sometimes I have felt frustrated when I feel like my stories could have triple the views if I had Twilight being romantically involved with Derpy, but I just don't think it would flow naturally out of me. I'd love to have a ton of readers, but I decided when I started this that I was going to write the story I wanted to read and hope that others wanted to read them, as well. That doesn't stop me from sometimes feeling resentful when I see a story that has 12,000 views and 1,000 likes that I don't think is very well written but does contain a romance. But you can't have everything and the world works by certain rules. I might be a crack pan flute player, but most people love bands that have 3 guitars and a drum kit. Just having that structure is going to net more listens naturally than my pan flute playing, and it's ridiculous to be irritated by it. Not that it stops me from being irritated sometimes, but I recognize that it's not my fault I write what I like and it's not the reader's fault for preferring something else. It's just how the world turns.
864932
You are, in fact, the model of a writer who has these things down. Popularity is yours, you can go back to writing good stories. I just have had several conversations with writers I know who are seriously under-rated, despite being amazing, and I keep getting the impression that they view commercial writing as some mysterious yet slightly distasteful blessing some of us have, rather than a desirable aspect of writing that can be improved on. A dark adventure can be successful. . . but it's more likely to be successful if you have a handful of TwiDash romance fics that are going to draw readers to you, who will then trust you enough to try out a dark adventure fic.
865066
Comedy is a good source of views, and while most of your stories are more popular than some of the stories I'm talking about, I find your lack of popularity absolutely baffling. Maybe you should try spacing your paragraphs instead of indenting? Really. . . I got nothing.
ETA: Actually, the only thing I think you really might need is some advertising. Maybe consider doing a collab or two, to get your name spread around?
865160 I'd love to be more popular, but it's also good for me to be at the level that I am at. I'm a person who needs goals, and constantly working for that audience is one of my main motivators. I try and take in every criticism and analyse it to see how I can improve. I'll willing bet anything that if I had a Hoopy McGee or Shortskirtsandexplosions level following, I would get pretty lazy. Moving up through the ranks is what is really helping me grow and I'm the first to admit that I have quite a ways to go before I deserve to be at the top, but I feel like I'm improving every time I put something out.
It's the difference between my head and my heart. My head is satisfied with the slow creep of readers I'm picking up, but my heart wants to be loved by all and loved RIGHT NOW. As usual, I side with my head, but there are many times that I still want to jump up and down, waving my arms, and scream "Me! Me! Meeee! What about me?!" when a list of good stories is published without my name on it. It's pretty immature, but I think it's human nature for a writer.
I'm about to start a new fic, so that will be another opportunity to put my best writing foot forward!
865160
To be honest, I just write what I wanna read. Those stories just happen to have a wide appeal. I like comedies, I like romance, and I like Twidash. Those are biggin's as you said, so I just happened to luck out when 'write what you wanna read' ended up being 'write what a lot of other people wanna read, too.'
865258 I really feel like "Write what you want to read" is the best way to go about it. That way, at the end of the day, you can have a product that you are proud of and like, even if it's ignored by everyone else.
As much as I realize and see the value of this advice, I don't write to make money, and I decided a long time ago to write for myself and hope for the best. I refuse to write something I don't want to just to please other people or because it fits a certain percieved notion of what should and shouldn't be in a fanfic.
865258>>865267
I totally agree with write what you want to read.
On the other hand, it can be fun to stretch a little. KitsuneRisu approached me about writing a dark fic for the Little Town collab he's running. I don't usually do dark, I don't even usually read dark, but I thought seriously about it. I realized there were ways I could do a dark fic that fit in with things I like to read. I haven't finished it yet, but I have a good chunk of it done and I think it's going to work.
So, for the folks out there who mostly write about OCs, or think they don't like romance fics, they might want to consider it a little more, as a way of branching out. Is there really no romance fic they would ever like to read? Is there no show character they think it might be fun to write about?
Some things I'd like to add:
-Don't make your first chapter too long. 5k maximum, so people aren't intimidated by the sheer length. They want to read stuff on their breaks or while commuting home.
-"Selling Out" is a fantastic way of getting more readers for your _other_ stories. When people read a story and end up liking it, they check the other stuff the author has written. My very first fics had maybe a total of 100 up/down votes in total. Then I wrote a few clop-fic and suddenly they had loads more readers.
-Don't write stuff you don't want to write! It shows clearly in your writing. I don't concider two of my three sex-tagged stories to even be "clop" stories. They are stories that have sex and sexuality as story elements. If you want to write something that nets in more readers, still remember to do it in your own way.
865066 The OP mentions "feels" and several examples of sadfics as an example. And to be honest, the feature box is about 1/3 sadfics, 1/3 comedies and 1/3
clopromance. If you want there, do one or them. When I noticed this, I actually went and did all three at the same time. BAM! Instant feature. (My very first one).864932 I keep hearing more and more about Kurt Vonnegut, and he seems wiser every time. Seems my education has some holes in it that needs fixing. Any good resources you could suggest to get me started?
865281
You hold on to that writer cred. But read my previous comment, too.
865267>>865281
I think the real thing, if you're gonna aim for hitting something popular, is to take a subject people like and want to read and figure out how to make it interesting to you as a writer. If you have idiosyncratic enough tastes, you might fail at attracting an audience even for a story that's based on a popular notion, but generally speaking anyone can find a way to write something they're interested in writing that contains at its heart something with mass appeal.
Take Twidash for example. There are a lot of Twidash fics. They come in so many different varieties, too. I'm writing a series of Sherlock Holmes spoof Twidash fics, a dark adventure one that's full of real world mythology religion and philosophy, and a Twidash version of the Appledash Project right now, and all three of those are very different in terms of tone, action level, and length. The only thing they have in common at all is that they're MLP fanfiction, they involve a romantic relationship between Twilight and RD, and that I wrote them. And that's just me, there are epic adventures with only a taste of Twidash in them, dark horror stories where they get together, the standard sort of meet-cute-then-kiss romance stories spanning a huge range of genres and tones, stories dealing with loss, stories dealing with unrequited feelings, the whole works. Any type of story someone could want to write could probably had Twidash in it on some level.
865294
Haha, you posted this while I was basically writing the same thing in a different reply. Awesome.
Yeah, I've been doing prompts to try and stretch my legs in other writing genres. Mostly sad, since I don't do that very much. It's all about finding what's interesting to you in the topic and exploring that.
865296
The Self Assessment appears in the book Bagombo Snuff Box, a collection of short stories and brickabrack. He has a lot of collected essay works, such as 'Wampeters, Foma and Granfalloons', 'Palm Sunday', and 'A Man Without a Country', to name a few. His novels also offer a lot of insight, when read critically and analytically. I can give you a list of my personal favorites if you'd like.
Out of curiosity, how would you explain the success of fics such as Austraeoh? They break virtually all of the first glance rules (I had the same thought when Blueshift made a similar post, just wondering what you'd make of it).
865327
Sometimes it happens. Sometimes the stars line up, and the right people notice. Church had some pretty impressive success with his bittersweet OC stories, too.
That plan of action is going to lead to a lot of frustration for people, though. It's like hoping to be a famous mandolin player- it can happen, but if you want to be famous you might want to learn to play the guitar too.
865327>>865370
That one also updated every single day, which can build an audience simply out of curiosity. Not to mention it's by Shortskirts and Explosions, even if on a different account; when that came to light all bets on 'how'd this idiosyncratic thing make it?' are off.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...
I agree with your overall thesis, however, I disagree that Stephanie Myers is the same as Brown, Steel or Patterson. Stephanie Myers is in the same subset of hacks as a Jerry Jenkins or Tim LaHaye.
Brown et al are hacks, but they are competent hacks who I have nothing but respect for. Look into Dan Brown's head, and what do you see? MYSTERIES! SEKRITS! THERE'S A HERO AND HE'S RUNNING THROUGH A MAZE TO FIND THE SECRETS HIDDEN BY THE MYSTERY PEOPLE! AND CONSPIRACIES AND JESUS AND A MONK WITH A CRAZY LEG THING!
Steel? Sex, money, power, wealthy people being decadent, blackmailers, drama, drama, sex, more sex, fraud, suicide, more drama, sex with extra sex. I haven't read any Patterson, but I imagine it's the exact same thing.
Now, these books may not be brilliantly written. They won't stick out on your list of favourite books to remember and cherish forever. They might not stand up to a second read-through, or even a particularly thorough first read-through.
But they drag you in with cool action and drama and mystery and don't let you go until you finish.
Jerry Jenkins and Stephanie Myers are not competent hacks. Twilight is several hundred pages of vampires who don't do anything and red flags for domestic abuse. Left Behind is mostly phone calls and logistics. Myers and Jenkins are not competent hacks, they succeeded for a far less savoury reason: captive audiences. Jenkins and LaHaye got evangelical christian audiences to buy their book, because evangelical parents fear anything not explicitly marketed to christians. When you're thirsty in a desert, even muddy waters look good.
Same deal with Myers. She wrote poorly-executed paranormal romances with a blank slate protagonist and a dreamy-looking dude, with one big difference: they bigged up abstinence and they were written with Mormon sensibilities in mind. Publishers found out it's not just mormons who like the idea of abstinent romance, and they took off.
So yeah, not disagreeing particularly, I just think Myers is worse than you make her out to be....
865487
I've gotta say: I agree completely with that. Brown writes fun pulp. Meyer writes garbage-tier Mary-Sue drivel. Neither of them will stick with you, but at least Brown's a fun ride while it lasts.
Hmm.
Yup, sounds about right. And yes, for the record I'm a massive sell-out. Yet I still write what I want, and push my own boundaries and the stories all the time. I just do it after the first chapter...
Starting with comedy is the best way to introduce a dark story. Romance easily leads to sadness...etc.
865487
Patterson's actually pretty good. Or some of his work is. He aims at one audience, and fires away.
865487>>865517
It's all in the audience. The Meyers audience is populated by stupid little girls and stupider older women. It appeals to a sensibility and aesthetic that is, to put it bluntly, dumb. Hacks come in all flavors, from brilliant hacks to dumb hacks. Big props to the Jack Kerouacs of the world, but hackery is as hackery does, regardless of the target audience.
I think of it this way: When I was five-seven I loved the Goosebumps books. I tried reading one of them in the past five or six years to my step-daughter when she was the right age to enjoy it. My god, was it garbage. She loved it though.
Sometimes creating a work that's garbage to everyone except your target audience is as much an accomplishment as reaching near-universal appeal.
865487
Patterson writes people falling in love while dying of something in a tragic way, or falling in love while being pursued by a tragic past, or being generally tragically tragic and love and stuff. But yes, it probably is competent.ETA: He mainly writes by-the-numbers thriller/mysteries. I was getting him mixed up with Nicholas Sparks, another member of that list, because Patterson's first non-mystery thriller was on the best sellers list during the height of Nicholas Sparks best sellers reign, when I was working at a bookstore. My bad.
However, I'll defend Myers. She found a subject people wanted to read about, and she wrote it. Not all Twilight fans are Christians. There are enough Hot Topic teens in her readership, enough romance novel housewives, who are fine with sex and still like the books for some reason. She might be an awful writer, I've never read the books, but she's selling something people want to buy, no matter how gross or damaging or poorly written it might be.
I never said any of those folks were good or bad writers, just that other writers and critics hate them, and readers love them. Which I still argue is true.
865563
People who have been starved for art and allowed only the weakest gruel to feed their souls do not deserve your contempt just because your mommy and daddy let you read The Hobbit as a child.
865602
Haha, you got me, I concede.
865590
Sure, not all of her fans are Mormons because after her books took off, they were suddenly everywhere. That has a lot more to do with luck, tipping points and the fractal distribution of popular media than her talent in hackery (and I see good hackery as a solid talent, one that Steel, Brown and Patterson have and Myers does not).
865626
Okay, I can see that. It wasn't really my point in making that list of examples, but I can understand the difference you're pointing out.
865294
I do see what you mean and I agree it's good to branch out, even if you don't entirely want to, to hone your craft.
865258>>865656
I'm sorry. I was... overhearing what you folks have been saying.
Hi, book. =) Something very personal in this blog post, I feel. But I gave it 2 or 3 or 8 good reads and the balance really is hard. What Bats had said, one thing he said in the comments really stuck out for me
Which is how writing really is both the downfall and the passion of the so-called artistic writer. There is an element of luck involved in all you've said. Definitely some of the things will help, And I'm probably going to come back here once in a while when considering how to do things right for future marketing, but, here's where the funny lies.
This is essentially it, isn't it? I think the best 2 fics I've done is basically that. Taking a subject that people like and turning it interesting for me. They still didn't do so well, but they did better than the others I wrote.
Crack Javelin and I was talking about this, and he went through a lot of the other popular writers profiles like The Descendant and such. Looking at relative reads and thumbs and all that smosh... In the end people still glance over the 'thicker' fics regardless of how popular they are. It helps with a bit of bump, but ultimately, people will still avoid what they don't really feel they like.
So what if everything you write falls within that 5%? Getting out is difficult, getting noticed is more tricky. The entire focus has to change. I think groups and selling helps remarkably in those cases, so a lot of the latter stuff you posted about is quite appropriate. The first 500 word thing, too, something to definitely take away. In fact, to that end I actually decided to release all the chapters of my long-fic with a cold opening, but that's a different thing altogether.
I was going through the checklist of things people like against my most recent release and basically found that I wrote what is essentially the superior fic that people HATE. Every single element and combination of it, what it contains, what it stands for and what it has is something that everyone hates. I guess when you look at it that way, it's not doing so bad.
(yes, it is. It's doing terribly.)
I really have no idea where I'm going with this. I just wanted to say stuff. =(
Ok.. um.. right. Refocusing.
It's really luck of the draw for me. I see tons of similar fics, as I've mentioned in our PMs, that overtake anything I do regardless. I think it's up to marketing and that first grab.
And one thing I definitely think I can work on more is that whole 'getting out there' thing. I don't talk much and I don't ask much, for help. I'm too proud, and I don't like burdening people.
I might need a signal boost. How does one go about asking a friend who isn't really related to the project for one? Or would that be far, far, far too rude?
*cough*
(Yeah, I'm joking.)
But I think I probably would like to start doing more collaborations. You wouldn't happen to have any... open slots for things lying around, would you?
865956
I agree with this statement, in your case. But you still can't count on that fic that's the opposite of what the general public likes to become some kind of runaway hit. I mean, it could, yes. But it's not the one you want to bet the farm on. However, making it commercial in the ways that you can does make sense.
I'm currently on hiatus from collabs, since I still have yours to finish and more than enough other stuff. But the Collab Cage always has something open, and they do a monthly one as well.
Ooh, interesting. I personally love Dan Brown's books (have 'em all, actually. Angels and Demons is my favorite). My data management teacher in high school ended up calling them down one day, saying they were a load of waffle - which is true, but so is most writing if you think about it. Besides, its damn entertaining waffle. I suppose I can relate to this in that I've pretty much disliked every "classic" that I've had to read, despite everyone saying how groundbreaking they are. I mean, I can appreciate that maybe Emma or Wuthering Heights were great for their time and all, and that people now still love them, but to me they're boring and (with the latter) depressing.
Anywho, rant about my lack of literary class aside, I just realized how accurate a lot of these suggestions are. I actually don't mind long rambling intros, so long as they're relatively free of spelling/grammar issues, and if the concept is intriguing, but I realize this isn't always everyone's cup of tea. And yes, humor. If something can make me laugh (which admittedly isn't all that difficult) I automatically think a lot higher of it. Actually, that's what got me to write Potion Commotion. The idea came to me at work while I was enjoying the absolutely enthralling task of weeding lilies. I know, right? Its adrenaline pumping stuff. I ended up with the stupid idea of ponies and love potions gone wrong to combat the boredom, imagined some dialogue, burst out laughing and decided if I could make at least one other person chuckle even halfheartedly it'd be worth sharing my silly musings. I heard somewhere that you should write for your perfect reader. Just pick someone, real or imagined, that you want to be your audience and have at it. I dunno how well that works, as I usually just write what I like and hope for the best, but it sounds pretty solid.
I would like to say that giving the people what they want doesn't always work like you think it will. I was the first author on this site to be double featured, and got insanely popular with a HUGE clop fic called "The Back Room", which contained every form of clop imaginable. I netted a good 400 some odd followers because of that story.
So color me surprised when I come back from a self imposed exile with fresh talent and new ideas and no one gave a shit. 400 some odd fans who trust I'll write something entertaining, but because it didn't have clop, it goes unnoticed. So now I'm back to getting a slow creep of readers while my so called "fan base" turned out to be a bunch of philistines.
So, yeah, while I would like more readers, selling out usually ends you up worse than before. Especially if others you DID have frown on clop. Its a mine field full of fickle idiots, and with most of them reading only what Equestria Daily TELLS them to read, you really have to sell your soul to appeal to THEM and not the audience itself, which I gave up trying to do long ago.
866652
Interesting. Because if I, hypothetically, had an account that was just for clop, I might, hypothetically, have a few readers here who followed me from that account when I offered them my secret identity. Which I totally don't have. Not all of them might be interested, obviously, but it's another of those trickle things. A few readers from here, a few readers from there. . . I suppose mileage may vary.
865956
I have a friend who's had similar problems gaining recognition, because he writes teen rated grimdark stories, so he misses the crowd who wants something like Cupcakes since it's not gory and those who would be interested are too frightened of the genre to give it a chance. His work is exceptionally well polished and interesting and it's a shame how little recognition he gets. I pimp out his stuff every chance I get, but there's only so much I can do. He's gained some followers here and there by writing a variety of shorts and I apparently inspired an Appledash out of him (yay), so that might get even more coming his way, which he very much deserves.
Part of it also has to do with when things hit the main page as new. Nothing will hurt a story more than coming out in the middle of the night. If it's something that can be put up in active groups, you can hope to keep it from sinking when people see the fic added notification next time the log on, but if it doesn't really have anywhere like that to go you can live and die by the lack of traffic on the front page.
This is purely anecdotal evidence, but I see the most traffic to my stuff between 6 AM to 10 AM MST and 4PM to 9PM MST weekdays, with slightly better on Monday and Tuesday than the rest of the week. Again, purely anecdotal, but when I'm ready to toss something online I aim to have it go live somewhere in those hours by submitting for approval right at the start of a time chunk. I wouldn't be above revoking a submission that had sat for a long time and got really late to submit again later, just to keep it from going live at 3 in the morning and killing it before it had a chance to do anything. Weekends also seem to be poison for some reason. I don't really have any info to back this up particularly and it probably varies a lot with the day, the genre, the subject-matter, and probably a ton of other things, but it seems to be at least a little reliable. My two biggin's, The Twidash Project and It's Elementary, My Dear Rainbow went up at 8:30 AM for the former on a Thursday and 8:30 PM for the latter on a Tuesday. The former hit the featured box in two hours and the latter hit it in 10 hours.
Take this information and do with it what you will.
866787
Are you sure you weren't describing me in all that? That's uncannily similiar to my story, except that it was book and tcherno who somehow inspired ME to write an Appledash. Like, every single detail you said is basically what I'm going through as well. Of course, save for the 'well polished and interesting' bits; I can't actually be egotistic enough to actually make that claim about myself.
But the time thing... damn, man. I could have used this information earlier. In fact, I PURPOSELY hit the friday night crowd, thinking that's when most of the people log on and read stuff.
Boy. Do I FEEL STUPID NOW.
I'll target my updates for mondays and tuesdays, then, during the times you suggested. Hopefully I can make up for the lack of the initial push.
Thanks very very much for the advice.
866761
For example, I delisted the damn thing to get people to leave it alone and check out other things with my name on it. They STILL find and fav it and don't hang around for anything else I've done .
I helped a friend of mine, one of my fans, edit his story and lo and behold he made Equestria Daily whereas I still do not for whatever fucked up excuse. My name is credited, but that doesn't make people come check me out.
I'm collaborating on another story doing better than my own, and my name is proudly on display. Still no biters.
Consider me Wile E. Coyote and my quest for acknowledgement as the Road Runner. And like the cartoons, Coyote proves time and again luck does not exist.
866805
Haha, you might dig the dude who I'm talking about's stuff then: jmj. He's awesomely talented and has an amazing dark AU with nearly 150k words and less than 40 votes total overall. He's had two that threatened to get recognition and one of them was because the title was "Rainbow Dash Gets an Abortion," and it drew a political crowd that didn't even read it downvoting because of the title. Totally unfair. I've written blogs, recommended him in comments (like this one, haha), even had him on my podcast as a guest author because damn if he doesn't deserve some more views.
I hope the timing works. I don't know for sure that it does; it's all guess work and crossing fingers based on me tracking my own stats. Near as I can tell, there's a view well between 10:00 PM and somewhere around 4:00 AM where I'll get ~1/10th of the total views for the day and another between 10:00AM and 3:00PM when I get ~1/10. All the rest of my traffic comes in those other chunks, so that's where I try to aim my fics to go up.
866805
OH SHI-I just realised. I'm actually gonna be covering one of your fics on my podcast soon. We're covering Rarity character studies and I wanted to include Collide. I didn't even connect the name when commenting back and forth.
Hope I can send a little bit of traffic your way with it when it goes up!
866870
Oh hey, that's so so cool.
thanks very much! I do want to listen to it when it comes out, so I'll be keeping my eye on it. Would you happen to have a date? Where might I be able to listen to it?
EDIT: I found it! Poniponiponiponicast, right? Found the youtube channel!
And yeah, I'll totally check out jmj. Seems like an upstanding chap, right along my alley.
And thank you again, I've never been podcasted about before. I'm glad to be included!
EDIT: okay yes, I have been, once, by the EQD first Q & Neigh. >_> Blargheg. But this is more in depth!
This is so very exciting.
866958
That's us! The fanfic specific stuff is called Drifting Rambles. The Rarity cast was supposed to go up today, but I had some scheduling conflicts with my cohost Subsolar Drift and we've not had a chance to record it yet (poor guy is in hours of theatre rehearsals every single day). Should go up soon, I can send you a PM when it does.
867714
I would appreciate that very much. =)
Thank you again!
866805 I have also found Friday to be a bad day. I guess everyone is out one the town for the night. My stories released on Friday have struggled.
869346
Haha, I've been releasing very often on fridays BECAUSE that's usually the only time I'm free.
Oh irony of ironies....