How to recruit people to a ship · 8:50pm Jan 1st, 2013
Now that the holidays are over, it's time for more TL;DR essays! Up this time: Shipping, and convincing other people of a ship.
For those that have never read my list of ships I like and ships I don't like, they are as followed:
Like: AppleDash, TwiJack, aged-up ScootaDash, TwiDash, RariShy, FlutterMac.
Dislike: RariJack, FlutterDash, most Pinkie ships.
All other ships, I have no real opinions on.
When I say that I “like” a ship, it means that I do not need to be convinced that it could work, I already believe it. I could start reading a story about Fluttershy and Mac having kids, because I have in my head an idea in my head of how the relationship would work, and that this pairing would be happy for both parties. When I say that I “dislike” a ship, it means that based on my understanding of the characters, I can't see why they might fall in love, or what they would do with each other once they're there (other than fight or get annoyed with each other, which doesn't sound fun to me, so I don't wish it on ponies I like.)
I assume this is fairly close to what other people are talking about when they say the same things. I realize that there are people out there who like to watch characters fight, or consider annoyance a sign of affection, but I'm not really talking about them because that's not a point of view I understand. I think my definitions are reasonable for a good chunk of the shipping population, even if we don't agree on which ships they apply to.
However, the important thing is that these opinions are not set in stone. People can be convinced of a ship. Every now and then, I get a comment on one of my fics that says something like “I never liked X pairing, but now I understand it,” and they're some of the comments I'm most proud of.
I myself have had those moments. I've never been a huge fan of TwiDash, but it makes my list of ships I like. That is almost totally because of Twilight's List, which was being written early in my fanfic reading days. Kits did an amazing job of showing, through Twilight and Dash's thoughts, exactly why they might fall in love. I'll never forget the line Dash thinks: “She's like the me of magic!” I read that, and it all made sense.
And I can apply that to other TwiDash fics. New authors no longer need to convince me where the characters connect, I can supply my own headcanon, or rather kits headcanon.
Now, there's nothing wrong with not making the argument. Sometimes that's just not what a fic is about, and sometimes you just want to write a cute fic about a ship you like. For a lot of ships, there's plenty of choir to be preaching to, and they're looking forward to the next sermon about how cute their ship is.
But if you do want to make the argument, or if you want to convince me of a ship that I don't already like, I've come up with three different ways of doing it:
Show: This actually goes back to my essay on "the thing every ship fic needs," which is basically a scene showing what the couple looks like as a happy couple. The AppleDash Project is full of this kind of scene, just the couple sitting around and enjoying each others company the way significant others would. If it seems happy, and the characters are written in character, sometimes that's enough to convince people that this is a ship they like.
Tell: There is nothing wrong with spelling it out for the audience through character's dialogue or thoughts, like kits did in Twilight's List. Sometimes you don't want to waste a whole fic showing day-to-day scenes of a pair of characters, and in that case a certain amount of “we're perfect together because of this!” is allowed. It has to make sense that the character would think it, or say it, but it can be just as convincing.
Changing headcanon: This is the most dangerous one, but also the most exciting in a fic.
ANY ship can work, if you allow the characters to grow and change, or reveal something we never knew about the characters. If we found out that Fluttershy loves watching the Wonderbolts, even if she never would want to be one, that puts a whole new dimension on FlutterDash. If Applejack and Rarity had an adventure where Rarity actually learned to relax, and Applejack actually learned the value of manners and appearance in a permanent way, RariJack could totally work. If Pinkie has some stable vision of the world, and the randomness is actually a facade she can drop to be a more dependable, not-annoying special somepony for someone, she could be shipped with a lot of characters.
But those examples involve presenting an in character case for something important about the characters that is not canon. And that takes a good writer, and a good story, and a really good ability to keep a character recognizable while adding or changing things. And some people just won't agree with the interpretation, and that's totally their right, because it's not canon.
This also applies to background ponies and OC's. Since we don't have canon to work from for them, past appearance and a few lines, anything you make up about them is a change to someone headcanon. Soarin has no canon personality, so I can't say I ship him with anyone. However, someone could easily write a fic where I could ship him with anyone, simply by giving him a personality that would fit with a canon character.
But that brings me to my last point about changing head canon- it often doesn't translate into every shipping of the characters. I really enjoyed Soarin/AJ in It's Always Sunny in Fillydelphia, but that's just one version of Soarin. He won't be the same character in another fic, and I might not like him paired with her there. Similarly, obviously Scoot and Dash need to grow and change for ScootaDash to not be creepy. I have my headcanon for how that happens, and I think that based on what we do know about the characters it would be likely to happen in a way they could be shipped, but it would be really easy for someone to write it in a way that I wouldn't ship, and could be every bit as valid as Best Young Flyer, whether I agree or not.
In conclusion, this is just something to keep in mind when thinking about shipping, and especially when writing or recommending fics for people who don't ship a couple. If you know of a fic that might convince me of a ship I don't already like, let me know it in the comments! Bonus points if you let me know which way(s) it might convince me.
Oh, it's coming.
IT'S COMING.
If this is your opinion, I shall write a RariJack story that you will like! A challenge of sorts!
You don't know how Flutterdash would work? I thought that was the easiest one to make work... they were best friends in Flight School and they both moved to Ponyville... I thought the ship was basicaly cannon. Don't get me wrong, I don't exactly like that ship either but I can still see how it works. O well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and who am I to judge. After all I am the father of.... oops almost gave it away.... Midnight would kill me.
I could go for the obvious plug of my own work for the RariJack with:
The Laughing Shadow
But I probably shouldn't. Like most of my stuff, it's pretty bad.
Though seriously, I agree with most of your dislikes--I sure can't see FlutterDash working, nor can I see any sort of Pinkie Pie ship working. (Save for PinkieMac. Read one that actually worked well. If I can find the darn thing again, I'll edit with linkage.)
Though I disagree with RariShy working. Rarity would be too much of a drama queen for the quiet one. The instant Rarity, like, broke a brush or something, that house would be filled with weeping.
670151
I pretty much hate FlutterDash as a relationship. But I already wrote that one, so I'll spare everyone.
But no, it's not practically canon. Dash's reactions to Fluttershy in canon are most often annoyance. Same with Pinkie. The only one she's almost never annoyed with or dismissive of is AJ, actually. (I watch every single episode closely for shipping, because I have to respond to it in The AppleDash Project.)
You may enjoy Green. It has: Flarity, Appledash, and Twinkie in it. While Twinkie of necessity is a pinkie ship, I still think you will enjoy that couple because of their dynamic together. You may also enjoy I Love to See You Smile.
I was wondering what it was that you saw in the TwiDash ship. I'm glad you explained it, it makes better sense to me now.
a nice little sad piece (happy ending, so don't worry) of appledash on the way. Planned release before 6th of January, so guess its purpose
670170
But Dash is rather supportive of Fluttershy, too.
Hurricane Fluttershy had her try to 'convince' her to join. You COULD interpret her actions as this sort of hidden desire to want Fluttershy to improve herself.
Sometimes the drive to help someone else to be more than they are might be a result of some unresolved feelings....
I have to wonder why it is that you do not like RariJack ships? Personally, I can see it working out rather well, if done right.
As for Pinkie ships, there is one I have found, a RariPink that is showing to be really well done, as long as you don't mind clop. (It actually is getting quite deep into the emotional aspect of a budding relationship, and doin that well, inspite of being filled with unadultered banging)
There was a long time when I didn't like shipping at all, and then a long time when I only supported one or two. But more and more, I'm finding that my arguments for why such-and-such a pairing wouldn't work fall flat in the face of well thought out writing that demonstrates how and why they would. I didn't like PinkieDash, then I read Cloudy Skies' Where Your Heart Is, I didn't like FlutterDash, then I read InsertAuthorHere's Fell Into the Right Hooves, I didn't like AppleDash, then I read BronyNeumo's To Fix You; now they're my OTP's. I'm open to any ship now, assuming the author can justify through interactions between the two characters why their relationship works.
Going by the show itself, any ship could go either way, depending on which episode you're watching. FlutterDash makes sense if you're watching Hurricane Fluttershy, but not if you're watching Dragonshy. AppleDash makes sense if you're watching Fall Weather Friends, but that same episode makes it seem unsustainable. PinkieDash works if you're watching Griffon the Brush Off, but not if you're watching... any time Dash is annoyed by Pinkie. The show's writing isn't consistent enough to be used as absolute justification for why any ship would or wouldn't work.
We like similar ships. My top three favorite ships are TwiLuna, AppleDash, and TwiDash. But I also like TwiJack, RariShy, and sometimes ScootaBelle.
Twilight x Luna is my favorite ship. I was introduced to TwiLuna from Zonfic's story A Special Night. I just sort of fell in love with the ship after reading that and looking at lots of art and other fan fictions.
There was a long time when I didn't like shipping at all, and then a long time when I only supported one or two. But more and more, I'm finding that my arguments for why such-and-such a pairing wouldn't work fall flat in the face of well thought out writing that demonstrates how and why they would. I didn't like PinkieDash, then I read Cloudy Skies' Where Your Heart Is, I didn't like FlutterDash, then I read InsertAuthorHere's Fell Into the Right Hooves, I didn't like AppleDash, then I read BronyNeumo's To Fix You; now they're my OTP's. I'm open to any ship now, assuming the author can justify through interactions between the two characters why their relationship works.
Going by the show itself, any ship could go either way, depending on which episode you're watching. FlutterDash makes sense if you're watching Hurricane Fluttershy, but not if you're watching Dragonshy. AppleDash makes sense if you're watching Fall Weather Friends, but that same episode makes it seem unsustainable. PinkieDash works if you're watching Griffon the Brush Off, but not if you're watching... any time Dash is annoyed by Pinkie. The show's writing isn't consistent enough to be used as absolute justification for why any ship would or wouldn't work.
670190
I have no problems with the idea that Dash and Fluttershy might have unresolved feelings, or even some kind of special bond. I just don't think they'd ever act on them, because Dash is annoyed by Fluttershy, and Fluttershy is intimidated by Dash. And if they did act on them, they'd be miserable because those things wouldn't magically disappear just because they kiss.
And Dash was supportive in Hurricane Fluttershy, but somewhat less understanding in DragonShy, the beginning of Dragon Quest, or the joust in The Crystal Empire.
670203
RariJack, based on just canon, working out well? I honestly don't see how they can spend an hour alone together without rolling their eyes, grinding their teeth to nubs, or having a fight. They can step up to support each other from time to time, but just hanging out?
With RariJack, I can clearly see where there might be an attraction under the annoyance, but in the end I think it would be a bad idea.
And I think I read that fic. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's a perfect example of changing headcanon- that Pinkie is clearly not canon-Pinkie, but the author is good so it works well.
One of Donny's Boy's fics had convinced me of the possibility of ApplePie, his fic has recently become an alternate reality, as it relies on a plot point that was proved invalid in Magic Duel.
It was called Our True Colors
It wasn't a romantic story in the slightest. There was no shipping, but the relationship between Pinkie and AJ could easily have been developed into a romance. If I hadn't read this post-Magic Duel, myself, it could have easily become headcanoned, simply because it was very well written, and the only story that I've read recently that has stimulated my tear-ducts. If you haven't already, I recommend giving it a read.
(Whoops, screwed up the link, fixed now)
670254 One thing about me... normally, I don't care too much about canon. I look more towards the story itself. (if I worried about canon, then 98% of the posted stories on this site would be unreadable for me lol)
670251
I do agree with this, actually, despite The AppleDash Project. But my shipping is based off their canon personalities in general.
No ship is canon, and none of them should be. But if people want to convince me to ship something, they need to start with the basics.
670335
I know all shipping is opinion. But for me, it comes down to couples that have something in common and couples who don't. Those things you mentioned? Every darn one of them would make a great ship fic where the couple confronted that problem, and fell back on the things they have in common, which is the strength of the relationship to me, and overcame them.
The point of this blog is that I can be convinced of any ship, if you can show me that. So go on and write something that shows me the common ground FlutterDash has to fall back on when they've had a big disagreement, or are driving each other crazy. I really believe that someone can do it, I've just never seen yet. And it will almost certainly involve adding something in headcanon to give them that strength to fall back on, which I pointed out is totally valid, but risky.
(And I made ScootaDash work without Scoot being famous. She's just really hot. So there.)
For awesome ship examples I'm basically just suggesting Donny's Boy stuff in general. He mostly ships Pinkie Pie with folk, so that covers that whole setup. Regrets is also a great RariJack. I don't have any particularly recommendation worthy FlutterDash stuff, despite the fact that I like the ship alot. Might be decent proof that the pairing is as you say.
670254
Y'know, I've had the headcanon for a while that ever since the bit in Dragonshy where Fluttershy stared down an angry dragon, Rainbow Dash has been weirdly and possibly subconsciously obsessed with getting her to 'realize her true potential'. Hence, why she keeps pushing her to preform or volunteering her for dangerous missions. And, why she gets frustrated when Fluttershy puts up any resistance to Rainbow Dash's Vision of an Empowered Fluttershy.
Anyway, I find Pinkie Pie ships hard to swallow for, I think, an entirely different reason than you. I actually see her as too selfless for romance on two counts: first, I think she'd struggle with showing that degree of favoritism (everypony's her friend, remember?
), and second, well, I've always found one of the more interesting points of Pinkie's character to be her odd habit of self-effacement. In Party of One, she was completely prepared to believe that her friends would just throw her away and also, for what it's worth, forgot her own birthday. In the Return of Harmony, Discord got to her by preying on her anxiety that her friends were laughing at her the whole time. In Wonderbolts Academy, she thought that Dash forgetting about her was a plausible outcome. In Too Many Pinkie Pies, she actually came to doubt her own identity. Yes, those last two are both Season 3. Vindication! (Mostly, I think I held this view because Party of One was and remains The Definitive Pinkie Pie Episode for me.)
Of course, Equ-us is right that their personalities basically fluctuate somewhat in the show. For some reason (read: fanish neurosis), I simply tend to read this as the result of complex psychological profiles rather than inconsistent writing.
It's about finding that story the one that brings you over. that happened to me, frankly i just find appledash cute the fanart! like zutara of avatar the last airbender i didn't like the ship much at first then theres always the one the fanfic that says hey they arent so bad they are kinda cute. if i had to count how many times I've been won over into liking a ship i am not too crazy about. i would probably be a rich man living in hollywood. so far as i am concern i like all ships now they all have potential to make the perfect story. all you guys need to do now is win me over with straight parings.
i could join the appledash group but iam already in enough shipping groups i am afraid i might over do it on the group thing
I am guilty of taking away pinkie's randomness and annoying ass character traits for my fanfics. i love pinkie but i HATE how the writers of this show write her for once can they make her more oh man whats the word i guess i could say emo thats how i write her. same with Rarity and Fluttershy i change their characters up a bit so its easier for me to write. see i find it easy to write Applejack since i am alot like her i live in the country i have the same values as her and we both have accents. So what i am trying to say is sometimes it best to not rely on the show for character traits since the show loves to overplay them. Pinkie's been driving me insane this season i wish the writers would calm down on her character and let her grow the buck up! good lord you would think after all you learned in baby cakes you woudlnt act like an idiot. luckly i have my fanfics to make up for this season's nonesense. the only good thing to come out of it is more Applejack loving she didnt get enough last year and the scootadash i love the scootadash.
670254
I dunno, I found the Joust seen rather cute, really. Taking in that maybe Dash expresses support in her own way, I can somewhat imagine a scenario in which she actually CAN'T be straightforward with Fluttershy and has to be 'mean' just so that she can get close to Flutter. And Sure, Flutter might not want to freely admit either, but that's why she has her friends...
Well, mind you, I'm not advocating this pairing. Despite actually writing about it, I don't really see it happening much myself. But I still like to think of the ways it could possibly happen.
But I'm really against the 'kiss makes everything better' sort of idea too, so you won't have those problems from me.
Hmm, interesting, and very valid points. I think one of the ship fics that surprised me the most in the "changing headcanon" thing was "Seeking Beauty" by Donny's Boy. Its Pinkie/Rarity, which I never thought I'd understand, let alone like, but he made me do both. It probably helps that there's a smidge of Appledash thrown in as well.
I was the same way with Twidash at the start. I thought it was the weirdest ship, because I couldn't see what they had in common - granted, at the start I thought all pony shipping was weird, so I don't know how much that's saying. Twilight's List was also my Twidash gateway drug, so huzzah to Kits! Now I pretty much ship Dash with everyone (Flutterdash being my least favorite, though I have read a few good fics that made me like it a bit, more than I thought I would, anyway). I can actually ship pretty much anyone with anyone (some ships being more 'meh' than others), except AJ for some reason. Its like I can do AJ/Dash or AJ/well fleshed out male OC (as in "Its a Dangerous Business...") but that's it. And for some strange reason I really dislike Rarijack. I'll still read stories if its a side ship and everything, but not if its the main focus. I can't even explain it - although Donny's Boy wrote a fic with Dash/AJ/Rarity and somehow made me like it. He clearly has a knack for that type of thing.
As for the Pinkie thing - I choose to view her more as a random character with hidden depth. Portrayals of her being completely off the wall all the time tend to irk me a little. Not that she shouldn't be random - she is in the show and it tends to be pretty amusing (for me, anyway) but if the episodes "Party of One" or "Too many Pinkies" are anything to go by its obvious she isn't completely one dimensional. I like her with Dash the best, because if anyone could keep up with Pinkie, it'd be her.
Well, enough of my rambling - it seems I've nearly written an essay of my own.
I find it hot when two characters fight and then makeout afterwords
i am an opposites attract kinda guy i see most of us here are. considering the amount of Flutterdash and Twidash i read one story where Twilight and Rainbow started yelling at each other and then it turned into clop O_O i may not like fluttershy but i would love to see that mare dominate Rainbow Dash
now for the other pairing Twijack we need a fanfic that has a conflict with these two being a couple. why do i love opposite attract parings so much? oh well each to their own some people dont like to have that in their romance. did i mention i like spitdash? i read the scootadash trilogy that series is just amazing thats why i was bit disappointed in spitfire's character last episode.
671286
I just hate fighting with my husband or family. There's nothing more frustrating to me than when I can't get someone I care about to understand me, so I hate to let that happen to characters and call it a happy ending. I need characters in love to really understand each other, or to at least have that part of themselves where they can really understand each other. So opposites attract ships really rub me the wrong way, and I usually can't stand characters fighting and then kissing (without reaching some kind of understanding) unless it's totally comedy.
ETA: "Agree to disagree" is only acceptable if both sides actually concede that the other has a valid point.
671346
you are the reason i find Appledash so darn cute.
That's fine I understand, I would never want to fight with my girlfriend i would love and cherish her and respect her wishes. so when it comes to what a person likes in a ship its really each to their own. if they like lets say Caramel and Big mac cuddling on the couch, that's fine with me I respect what everyone wants in a ship fic. I am just here to read a good story, not to judge how the person writes their romance.
cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJ5MjAxMy8wMS8wMS8yM180NF80Nl80MjlfMTk5NjM1X19VTk9QVF9fc2FmZV9yYWluYm93X2Rhc2hfcGlua2llX3BpZV9zaGlwcGluZ19waW5raWVkYXNoX29ic2Vzc2lvbl9hcnRpc3Rfc3RyYXR1c3Ryb3QGOgZFVA/199635__safe_rainbow-dash_pinkie-pie_shipping_pinkiedash_wonderbolts-academy_obsession_artist-stratustrot.jpg
This is pretty much a perfect example of why PinkieDash wouldn't work~
672143
That's just plain out bashing, its your opinion that it wouldn't work but keep in mind there are some of us who do believe it could work. showing a picture saying this is why it wouldn't work is bashing. how would you like it if i got an appledash pic bashing it by saying this is why it wouldn't work? in fact i might just do it that to prove a point.
672605
Dear god man, PUNCTUATION PLEASE!
But no, that pic actually shows part of why I believe Pinkie doesn't work with Dash. As bookplayer has said, Pinkie just sees the world differently - and acts differently than most in accordance to that. Others would not be able to keep up with her - and can only take her in small doses. The only one that we've seen even the slightest amount of indication that Pinkie would slow down for is Fluttershy - she refuses to prank Flutters, as she's "so sensitive".
For anyone else, she's entirely too much. She'd smother them.
672620
I still like pinkiedash, i don't care about how bat crazy annoying she is in the show. in my headcanon its just a cover, I don't want to start a ship war here i had enough of it back in my Avatar the last airbender days during the kataang vs zutara ship war. Anyways getting off subject I don't ship those two as much as i used to i sorta jumped ship as how my blog explains. I agree as much I love Pinkie she would smother me too and i would end up getting angry at her. Now that i think about it she does only seem to slow down for Fluttershy so i see your point there she would be too much. she needs to grow up a bit before dating anyone and i would like the writers to show that she can mature. So um sorry for raging there debating ships really gets me going so no hard feelings?
OPINIONS!!! OPINIONS EVERYWHERE!!! :flail:
[insert opinions here]
For anyone who isn't sure about RainbowPie I would suggest reading The Party Hasn't Ended by Butterscotch Sundae. It's my personal favorite story for this ship.
Oh, and bookplayer? A RariJack where Rarity learns to relax you say? Where Applejack learns manners can be important I believe? Where adventure abounds!? Wait that wasn't a stipulation... whatever, here. Strange Bedfellows by Staeg Masque
While you already like Rarishy, I feel it important to mention A Bluebird's song, as it's the fic that convinced me it could work. As it's primarily a Twidash fic, it could also serve as a gateway for Twidash acceptance as well.
For possible Rarijack acceptance, I recommend The Rustic and the Romantic as an example of a fic that 'shows.' It's a series of slice-of-life vignettes that are basically all individual 'show' scenes. Coming at it from a different angle, I recommend Collide, which would be a 'tell' fic with a small amount of 'headcanon change' and does not shy away from the central problems of Rarijack.
I am personally slightly more stuck in my ways than the standard shipfic fan you discuss, as I'm a OTP type fella. My favorite ship is Twidash, and Twidash is the primary reason I got into fic writing. As a result, I tend to have a bias towards accepting Twidash that's poorly constructed and a prejudice towards a handful of ships that interfere with my OTP. I'm not rabid; I very much enjoyed Best Young Flyer as an example and I have a small affection for other non-Dash Twilight ships and non-Twilight Dash ships. But unfortunately there are some that I flat out do not like and do not give the chance to sway my opinion. This I'd say is a personal failing of mine rather than anything necessarily wrong with the ships I dislike to the point of avoidance. I also do not care about OCs or Background ponies, either romancing the main cast or each other.
Ships I like: Twidash, Rarijack
Ships I have accepted based on specific fics: Rarishy, (aged up) Scootadash (guess which one caused that acceptance, haha), Scootaspike (cutesie kid-crush romance, don't look at me like that)
Ships that I dislike: Fluttershyxanyone, Pinkie Piexanyone, Twijack, Raridash, Rarilight
Ships that I have zero opinion on: background poniesxanyone, ocsxanyone
Ships that I'm biased against: Appledash (my apologies), Flutterdash, Twiluna, Twilestia
882399 It's not just that, I think. Rainbow Dash is ambitious, and while Twilight is out to learn as much as she can, "Boast Busters" clearly showed that she has issues with being seen as a showoff, a character trait that is about as far removed from Dash's core personality as can be. If anyone could relate to that side of Rainbow Dash, it'd be Rarity of all ponies (confer "Sweet and Elite"). Dash wants to be famous, which I imagine would be horrible for Twilight, because it would distract her from what's really important to her.
How I wish that were true, for my sake. Pinkie is very hard to write in-character for romance, that much I've learned.