Silver trotted through the halls, frowning faintly. He saw two exits, and predicted Night would like neither of them. He found her in her own office. They had books, scrolls, and other papers out and she was sorting through it.
He smiled a little as he entered, closing the door behind him. "We need to talk."
She raised a brow. "I don't like the way you say that."
"You won't like much of what else I say, I wager."
"But you'll say it anyway." She slipped from her chair and approached him. "Out with it."
Silver reached out a hoof and she hesitated a moment, but advanced into it and they hugged. "It's time we talked, about us, and our place."
Night sagged a bit against him. "Almost every word you say makes me less happy." She nuzzled his chest softly. "But tell me anyway."
He licked his lips before continuing, "Did you read my journal?" She nodded. "Completely?" She nodded again. "Then why do you think I'm here?"
She let out a slow sigh. "I've tried so hard to ignore it..." She slipped away a few inches. "Are you leaving? Is Celestia or something else taking you away?"
"In a matter... I'm not physically leaving, but everything around us is, so... I need to say a few things." He rose to his hooves. "First, I love you, completely and deeply. I want you at my side, to love and to help me keep my sense."
She smiled thinly. "But...?"
"But... you can't be First Wife."
She blinked at him. "I... am trying really hard to stay calm. Please explain that."
"My life has become political, and crowded. I'd love you to be at my side, giving advice, but I will be with people you don't like, even intimately."
"There's an overwhelming 60% chance this is about Nefertari." Her ears perked up as she sat up. "Do those swells mean so much?"
He flushed darkly. "No!" Well a little... "Look... I want you two to be bigger about this. Forgive her, please, and we'll work to bring her around."
"We shouldn't have to bring her around!" she hissed out, fur going up.
"If you want to leave, I won't stop you." He'd be very sad, he knew that. "We'll... be adults, I hope, and see the foals are well cared for and loved--"
"Stop that!" She raised a hoof and it hovered in the air before it lowered and she crashed to the ground. "I miss how it used to be."
Silver got a wry smile. "That's how we know we're alive, things change." He moved forward and kissed her cheek. "I still love you."
"What does that mean?" She slowly sat up. "That isn't a fair question... Look, if I'm not First Wife, who is? Nefertari?"
Silver snorted at that. "I should hope not."
"Then who? Celestia, Luna, Fast?"
Silver touched his nose to hers. "Is it wrong that I decide myself?"
She blinked at him owlishly. "Are you really ready to accept that? That means people will march right up to you and make the question. No filters."
"I'll learn." He looked back at the door long enough to flick its lock as he advanced on Night. "Now, I plan to show my love, if you still accept it. I will gladly be your stallion, will you be my mare?"
"But not your First Wife?" She watched him evenly a moment before she sighed slowly. "Stupid stallion..."
She didn't rage or run, and he did show his love for her, holding her and doing as married people do. He left her, satisfied and leaving her satisfied, but their relationship changed. He had no First Wife.
"I shall join then?" Nefertari appeared beside Silver.
"Not so fast." Silver frowned faintly. "She will apologize to you when she is ready, and we're not moving faster than that, besides, you're the last."
"Last?"
"I have to accept Celestia and Luna officially, then Fast, then you, and that order is not negotiable."
Nefertari rolled a hand in the air. "That's fine. The rulers of the land, then following the order of your conquests, but that makes your finding of an umbrum all the more pressing."
Silver sat up, blinking. Nefer was acting as a sort of First Wife, but was she really? She was speaking her own wisdom without filter with him. "I'll think about it..." He trotted past her, at least that settled.
She watched him and smirked. Her future husband needed nudging. She vanished and appeared atop Samantha, stroking her mane gently. "Hello Sammy."
"NefNef!" Samantha had no resentment at the sudden appearance of her regained friend. "I was just about to get to work. Have you seen my new office?"
"I have not." She gently nudged Samantha's sides like a rider would a horse. "Show me. Tell me, Sammy, do you know any Umbrum?"
"Hmm?"
"The shadow pixies. They are quite noticeable."
"Ah! Yes, I met one. She seemed nice."
"Is she?" Nefer leaned in from above. "Do you think she'd get along with Silver?"
"Of course." She couldn't imagine many ponies that wouldn't get along with Silver. "She likes foals, and so does he. She's a teacher."
"A teacher you say..." Nefertari smiled as she scratched at Samantha's back. "Have you considered introducing them?"
"I hadn't..." She opened the door to her office and stepped inside. "Should I? I trust Silver to know more about social contracts than I."
"He has... renegotiated his contracts."
"With who?" She arrived at her chair and hopped up onto it, settling down with Nefertari still on her back.
"Night Watch is no longer First Wife," she explained. "Silver will pick his own wives, but he needs help. Just because he will pick doesn't mean he'll look, and you found a nice umbrum..."
"Oh!" She got it and nodded. "I'll make sure they meet then, in an ideal environment for such decisions to be made."
"I knew I could count on you, Sammy. He's to have a wife of every race he's shown love to, and he has yet to decide on an umbrum wife. You'll fix that, yes?"
"Yes!" Samantha was smiling brilliantly as she considered plans to bring the two together. She had successfully courted him, before, surely it wouldn't be hard to help someone else do it.
"Good luck." Nefertari was gone, leaving her minion to work.
Moonbeam sat in the nursery, doing his homework as he kept an eye on the foals who were to be his adopted uncle and aunt, though the idea of accepting foals as that... He snorted softly as he glanced up just to see Morning Glory smiling at him just a foot away. He had teleported out but wasn't doing anything bad.
"Hey there."
Morning waved a hoof before coming closer and sitting down next to Moonbeam. Moon smiled a little. Sure, he hadn't asked to go back to school, or get homework, or foalsit! At least his new uncle was pretty cool, for a foal. He wrapped a wing around the small pony and Morning remained quiet as he worked, almost as if he was watching the work, or just hanging out with him. Either way was acceptable to Moonbeam.
A crash startled him out of his work and he looked up to see Clear Twilight had knocked over her pen and was trotting over to them. He blinked at her, but in she came, setting up shop at his other side and cuddling in close. "Don't want to be left out, huh?" He could understand that at least, and he reached out his other wing to gently hold her. They didn't stop him from getting his schoolwork done, they just insisted on being beside him as he worked.
Celestia entered the room with a little smile. The prince looked up at her. "Auntie. To what do I owe this pleasant surprise?"
"Thank you." She came closer. "You made this far less painful than it had to be."
"You know I'd do anything for my Auntie-dearest." They exchanged a hug gently. "Are you certain he'll make you happy?"
"No, but I think so." Celestia shook her head. "You know the closer to myself, the less certain my visions can be. I'm almost certain though... He'll try."
"I imagine he will... but you are a lot of mare to keep up with." She raised a brow. "I'm not referring to your love of cake, Auntie."
She swatted him gently with a wing. "It's not my fault my subjects are such exemplary bakers, and it would hardly do to snub them."
"Of course not, Auntie. He's still growing, you know. He may become larger than even you eventually."
Celestia trembled faintly. "I would not object to this..." To have to look up to somepony that she did not also hate or fear would be nice. She was always the large guardian for her ponies. She wanted that. "I will accept him even if he stops growing soon."
"That ball is rolling," Blue Blood advised. "Stopping it would require quite some effort. I hope the two of you will be happy."
"I think we'll get along." She sat up. "I read his journal. He admires me, just the way I am. He sees a hard-working benevolent ruler that he wants to be close to."
"Then he sees the truth." He nodded. "A shame so many see an unfeeling goddess, Auntie."
Celestia rolled her eyes. "Yes... Did you have to suggest so... He is going to have quite the herd."
He flashed a smile. "Good. That will keep eyes off of you. You will be one among many, but I doubt you will have much difficulty commanding his attention when you want it."
She rolled her eyes at that. "If I had it my way, we'd keep it small and personal... But my sister had eyes on him long before I was involved, to say nothing of Princess Fast Change."
"And his current wife."
"And her." Celestia quirked a smile. "I can soothe myself knowing this is a positive step for Equestria as a whole. We couldn't very well marry off the princesses, that would involve them leaving, and none of the ones we have would be happy at all, not even physically. No, we need to keep the royalty here, so a prince serves better. It's not so unusual for a prince to bring potential wives home and not move." She perked her ears. "Besides, a prince with a selection of wives? Decadent at worst, but understandable. A princess with a selection of husbands, of the other hoof..."
"Unthinkable." The prince shook his head. "Except for a few nations we wouldn't want to emulate, and most of those don't mind a prince doing it, provided he has the finances and strength. No, this way will work best."
He brought up two glasses of bubbling wine and Celestia took one in her magic before they clinked together and drank. It was not an ideal solution, but it was one.
7417398 Carrot Plate, Surprise. There's two. Celestia's faithful secretary.
That aside, this has little to do with Night OR Nefertari, and assuming it does kinda puts you on Night's level.
I feel like this chapter doesn't show much value for Night Watch. She's a good pony... and she got the short end of the stick. :(
Well, looks like even though Silver is going to pick any future wives, Nefertari seems intent on acting out the duties of First Wife, from the shadows at least. After all, Silver and Night would be less suspicious if Samantha was doing the introductions instead of Nefertari though I wonder why she is so intent on carrying out Blueblood's suggestion.
Political? Personal? Duty? Nefertari remains a mystery to me.
7417456 I gather you don't read any other part of Silver Verse.
7417456 Well there is Luna and Fast too but that's about it
7417498 Surprise has gotten two stories to herself as well as a lengthy time in this one. I'm not sure what more she can do really.
7417498 I know I meant as for not just power
There is no love no light no end in sight
7417407
How does Night's demotion & Nefertari's acceptance have little to do with either of them?
So this went from a group marriage to Muslim polygamy how disgusting
7417435
A good pony... Has beaten her husband, clamored for power to relevant in her mind, tried to control her husband's life, tried to cuckold her husband, forsaken traditions when it wasn't relevant to her yet kept them when they were, blow someone off while they try and court you following your rules... I could go on but Night Watch is an okay pony.
7417398
He doesn't care about Nef more than Night, but this marriage is more than just for love. As a political marriage, Night stopping Nef from joining is an insult to the Anubans. As in war would possibly break out.
7417527
7417518 You win.
7417543 A new car? Stop that continue with your story 424 will want a new chapter tomorrow
Ummmmm.... Story looks cancelled... As of July 23, 2016 at 8:58 am (PST)
Okay, this was a good chapter. It made a solid attempt to get some important points across, and while I think that the execution stumbled somewhat, the general thrust of what it's trying to convey is presented fairly competently.
I was a little surprised that Silver's conversation with Night Watch went as well, and as quickly, as it did, considering that he told her that he was abolishing the typical tradition for how herds operate. That alone is an elegant solution on his part, and a rather mature one as well - considering that he's royalty, it makes the most sense that he'd be making the decisions in this regard. That he came to this conclusion on his own, and is willing to go forward with it despite knowing that it might come with a cost - such as Night Watch potentially leaving him - is an excellent showcasing that he's growing into his new office. (That he was able to resist Nefertari's seduction also speaks to this...though he still clearly has some growing to do on that front, since she was only making a half-hearted effort and yet he still nearly succumbed, managing to stop only because he wrongfully convinced himself that it would be rape if he did.)
While it was somewhat harsh to wave the possibility of splitting up in front of Night Watch's face, I don't think that this was a threat; he wasn't saying "my way of the highway," but rather was making a statement that he'd committed to a course of action, and that he wasn't going to be dissuaded from it. This was not inappropriate, not only because Night's recent behavior have made such heavy-hoofed tactics appropriate, but also because this was something else that he'd decided in his capacity as both a prince and an ambassador. Yes, this blurs the line between their personal lives and his political position, but that's the reality that they're living with now.
That things went that well, complete with a bout of sex at the end, seemed a bit too easy...but that's mostly because we saw so little of Night's reaction after her initial disbelief and anger. Has she accepted this particular turn of events? Ultimately, Night hasn't ever gotten to the root of her problem, and unless she can figure out what she wants, and (if she can't have everything she wants) what she's willing to accept, then she's going to continue to be a source of problems further down the line. Being the First Wife was a very big deal for her - even after she accepted that she couldn't be that and the stallion as well - and I really want to see how she deals with having that taken away from her.
Beyond that, Silver was quite right in that Nefertari was almost acting like First Wife herself, emphasis on the "almost." While he quite clearly meant that insofar as picking out potential new members, I think there's a deeper recognition there - that Nefertari is, at this point, playing the role of the political aide. At this point, she's the only one who is earnestly showcasing the wider political landscape to Silver (e.g. that the Anubians will go to war if he doesn't manage the situation) and making recommendations on the best course of action. In other words, she's stepping in to fill the responsibilities that Night Watch hasn't lived up to so far. Moreover, she's doing a credible job of it.
...well, mostly. This is a bit of nitpicking, but I think that Nefertari's slightly off in her presumption that Silver can choose just any umbrum mare for a wife. Nothwithstanding Night Watch - who's being grandfathered into the herd [insert shamanism joke here] - all of Silver's wives are high-ranking political operatives, being princesses, ambassadors, etc. This is not a coincidence; each race is going to want to make sure that they have a representative in this new organization, and that entails having someone who has the standing and the experience with regard to wielding political clout. Picking some random mare off the street is essentially making her a figurehead, as she won't be able to actually do very much at all. Hence, I'm a little surprised that Nefertari doesn't recognize that Silver is going to need to marry an umbrum princess (or whatever the local equivalent is).
The scene with Moonbeam and the foals was rather cute, as well as heartfelt. Some nice characterization there.
Finally, there was Celestia's conversation with Blueblood. While I have a hard time seeing him as anything other than a narcissistic ass, I fully recognize that it's appropriate for this fic to take a different tact; after all, why else would Celestia keep him around if he was nothing other than an irritation? And besides, Rarity was being a bit of a gold-digger when she was hitting on him, so it makes sense that he was trying to give her the brushoff.
The conversation itself was mostly unremarkable - e.g. finding out that the thought of Silver being bigger than her apparently turns Celestia on - until the end. That last bit about the new arrangement being good for the country was rather insightful of Celestia, and not at all incorrect. While there are some unresolved questions about why there's suddenly a need to cement ties with other countries via marriage (such questions are easily resolved, I think), the fact remains that this is by far better for Equestria, since it consolidates power in their country. Having Silver keep a harem of wives centralizes Equestria's role in the world, and keeps the alicorns - among the world's strongest power-players - right at home, rather than sending the princesses to other countries to be wives there (a situation which would disperse the power of the alicorns across the world, and hurt Equestrian hegemony).
Of course, this means that Silver's going to have a large herd to manage, but then, that's part of the challenges that come with his office.
7417543 Please don't quit on this story! I feel like it's finally coming into its own!
A herd for politics sake I can see, but having the politics in the herd is going to stick a lot of extremely reactive ingredients in a very compact heated space.
The only way to even observe such a state is usually from a very long distance away.
In a bunker.
It says much when Samantha is acting as the most mature, sanest induvidual.
Please don't cancel your story. :(
7417554
As of July 23, 2016 9:27 AM (PST) the story is incomplete.
I have to say...The story is getting really messed up.
It is getting really dull and grey without the thing that is called LOVE (No, not the undertale LOVE bullshit).
We're still in the MLP: FiM universe, are we not? Where LOVE conquers all?
When the hell did this becomes political, loveless, miserable, selfish and power-hungry? When the hell did this becomes Adding females into one's COLLECTION? Where is the LOVE?
7417684 You sell your soul one piece at a time. You don't ever realize it's gone until you see that you might be the monster. The text asks two questions, no matter how you read it. "What do you want, and what are you willing to pay?"
No-one has yet to keep what they brought.
7417684 Not sure if you followed Silver from the beginning... But if you read Silver Stars... this in terms of "messed up" in quite mild. To be honest I found the first book of the series a bit messed up too... basically the whole silver's process of turning pony was weird...
7417543 Some internet drama here... there is two types of writers here on fimfic from what I have seen... One type cares about readers opinions too much... the other not at all... Just do whatever feels right...
Now something about the story... a question to be precise... What is the usual life time of the different races in your version of equestria? Maybe I missed it in the cannon notes on the group page... It just interests me in the context of Silver's building family unit... Are alicorns the only race that has very long or nearly unlimited life span?
7417820 Only bound alicorns live forever. Bound being the flowing mane and tie to some aspect beyond themselves. Celestia is bound to the sun and Luna the moon. So long as what they are bound to exists, there they are.
7417684
That's called "drama." It's one of the tags for this story.
Love is present; it's just not being presented as the be-all end-all for every character, which I think is a good thing.
First of all, MLP:FiM has "friendship" conquering all, not "love." Secondly, the fact that this story doesn't have that going on is one of its strengths. We're getting a more nuanced story where just because various characters are acting in good faith does not guarantee that they'll be an ending where everything is harmonious. Sometimes compromises and sacrifices have to be made. I'm heartened to see things moving in this direction.
Notwithstanding using "political" as a pejorative, you're speaking entirely in hyperbole here, and so it's hard to take this complaint seriously. Recognizing that one has power, and that the responsible use of it might not make everyone happy, is not "power-hungry." Having relationship problems due to work-life conflicts is not "loveless." I don't even know what "miserable" and "selfish" are in regards to. And no, he's not "collecting" females - he's dealing with issues revolving around the practice of royal polygamy, which is a goldmine of personal and political tension.
Look harder:
7417527 Wow, this is incredibly offensive.
First of all, royal polygamy has been practiced in many different cultures, from the Ottoman Empire to the Ch'ing Dynasty of China to the Incan Empire to modern Swaziland.
Second, Silver's situation does not resemble polygamy as permited in Islam; not only is Silver's situation not religious, but he will have more than four wives, which is the maximum that Islam permits (the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, had divine dispensation to exceed that number).
In other words, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
7417855 the Prophet Mohammed, piss be upon him. Was a murderer and a rapist that had sex with children and commanded you to kill anyone who didn't follow islam. Unless they paid not my religon tax ofc
7417870 That's great.
Who cares? I didn't know he was the topic. Hitler? Also a bad guy.
7417843 Friendship is a type of Love. According the a philosopher, there are 4 types of Love: Love between friends, Familial Love, Love between soul mates, Love of one's Motherland.
All 4 of which blended together, giving Love a sort of Holy feelings to it.
And you're using technical terms and words that half the people here don't understand given the context.
Words like "I Love you." are getting less and less meaningful for me in this story. One moment they were all snuggly, and the next they hurt each other.
All in all...I really don't like the direction this story seems to be taking. You can be glad all you want, but, I'm not.
I will stick around and see. If this is going with the direction that I don't like then "Imma bail"
You can stay and I can leave. No one is forcing us to do something we don't like here. No hard feelings.
7417880 Aha sorry Still just butt hurt that this just turned into Unloving Polygamy instead of group marriage
7417902 People that love each other hurt each other all the time. This is not new. Hopefully they will be strong enough to push past this.
7417910 Who is the one in the marriage being unloving? Even Nefertari, as sharp and dangerous as she is, seems willing to be a warm companion. She seems willing to learn to love everyone, in her own way. Celestia loves everyone by default. Is it Luna? It's probably Luna. It's always Luna's fault.
7417916 Naa it's not Luna xD. It's more Night being left out while Silver gets everyone. Luna is probably the only one who will show affection and love for her. And uncomfortable with the number of wives this might get to 10? 20? 30? If it's like 7 or 8 I will learn and love might actually bloom
7417870
With tolerance and respect for others like that, it's so easy to see why you're a fan of MLP.
Citation needed. Issues of large-scale armed conflict between people are very hard to justify as "murder." Even the execution of prisoners of war after the fact can't be so easily dismissed under that label. Even the most contentious issues, such as with the Jewish tribes of Medina, were part of the regional culture of the time regardless of religious values (see Deuteronomy 20:13-14 for an example of this in the Bible). Now, the death of Kenana ibn al-Rabi is certainly problematic, but that point remains under contention among religious scholars.
Citation needed. I really have no idea what you're referring to here, unless it's to the practice of taking slaves. Even then, he stated "Feed them what you eat yourself and clothe them with what you wear...They are God's people like unto you and be kind unto them."
I believe you're referring to his third wife, Aisha bint Abu Bakr. While traditional sources hold that she was married at age six and the marriage was consumated at age nine, this remains in dispute. For example, Asma Barlas, in her book "Believing Women" in Islam states: " "On the other hand, however, Muslims who calculate 'Ayesha's age based on details of her sister Asma's age, about whom more is known, as well as on details of the Hijra (the Prophet's migration from Mecca to Madina), maintain that she was over thirteen and perhaps between seventeen and nineteen when she got married. Such views cohere with those Ahadith that claim that at her marriage Ayesha had "good knowledge of Ancient Arabic poetry and genealogy" and "pronounced the fundamental rules of Arabic Islamic ethics.""
Easily refuted as false, since if that were the case the Quran would not mention jizya (the tax levied on certain non-Muslims in Islamic states).
7417880
I'm disappointed in you. It's in incredibly poor taste of you to compare the two.
7417939 Muslim (19:4321-4323) – Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: “They are of them (meaning the enemy).”
Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, “Kill any Jew who falls under your power.” Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad’s men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.
Tabari 9:69 “Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us” The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.
Ibn Ishaq: 327 – “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.” Muhammad’s instructions to his men prior to a military raid.
Book 67, Hadith 70 that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).
4:24 says: And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319). (See also Suras 4:3 and 33:50)
Thus, women captives are sometimes forced to marry their Muslim masters, regardless of the marital status of the women. That is, the masters are allowed to have sex with the enslaved human property.
>> David Silver
Hitler? Also a bad guy.
I'm disappointed in you. It's in incredibly poor taste of you to compare the two.
Right Muhammed is even more horrible poor hitler
7417902
I think you're referring to the Greek words for love, which were agape (charitable love), eros (passionate love), philia (virtuous love), and storge (affectionate love).
That said, while friendship has overlap with love - e.g. they both have interpersonal affection as a core component - there's also a difference between them, insofar as "love" is distinguished from "friendship" in casual conversation (certainly, in this conversation). "Friendship" conquers all in the context of MLP, whereas love - which you pretty clearly meant with regards to romance, insofar as this story goes - is not the same thing.
It's the other half of the people I'm trying to reach.
I concur with David in that this is normal for people who are in love.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that you couldn't get off the proverbial train if you wanted to.
7417939 Let's stop talking about islam. This discussion will not end well for either party. There is no need for a religious war in the comments of fimfiction
7417836 I formulated my question in wrong way... that piece about alicorns was mentioned somewhere already... what I wanted to ask about was the others... Like ponies, changelings, anubians... Basically how long will the members of his herd be with him... And what are the chances of the unbound alicorns not getting bound? How does it work? I guess I'll have to wait and see...
7417948
It's notable that you omitted 19:4320, which says "It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children."
But that's not surprising, since from what I can tell, you've copy-pasted this from an article on funnyjunk.com, rather than actually examined the hadiths in question. What those are about is the recognition that you cannot always avoid collateral damage in certain instances of combat, and that even protected persons in a battle might become targets if they start attacking people. As related in a fatwa by Sheikh `Abd Allah al-Manî`î :
That pretty well sums that up.
Yeah, this is copy-pasted from luchadora41.wordpress.com, which is a conservative Christian website that talks about, among other things, the parallels between 9/11, ancient Israel, and "God's recent warnings to America."
In other words, this is a bastardized account; it refers to Muhammad's directions with regards to his battles with the Jews of Medina, after alleged violations of of the Constitution of Medina. As the above hadiths make clear, this is not a blanket allotment to kill anyone Jewish, even though certain people like to twist it to present it as such.
Yeah, no. That was stated by Thabit ibn Qays ibn Shamas, from the Banu Tamim tribe, who was visiting Mecca and was competing in oratory. In other words, you've not only misattributed the source, but misidentified rhetoric as a commandment.
The hadiths of Ibn Ishaq had been largely judged to be unreliable; In the 11th century, the Tarik Baghdad, by al-Kabit al-Baghdadi, notes that all hadith scholars at the time (save for one) do not place merit in Ibn Ishaq. This echoes what Amid ibn Hanbal had stated in the late 8th-early 9th centuries; that Ibn Ishaq was to be rejected via fiqh (fallible human interpretations of the divine). Al-Dhahabi (late 13th-early 14th centuries) stated that many of Ibn Ishaq's hadiths were munkar (weak narrations which conflict with more reliable materials).
I think it's been pretty well established that you're just parroting hate that you've picked up elsewhere, and so really have no idea what you're talking about.
7418000 I didn't see this until after I'd made that last post.
I'm fine with ending this, though it would have been better not to have started in the first place.
I have never heard of those sites you mention, And these are from the Quran I did take them from a website but none of those. I do own the book but I can't copy paste from a book. But everything I stated is from the book. And so is your text islam has schizophrenia. And we will never come to an agreement on this I think it is pure evil. you have your own philosophy and this is over. Have been a muslim btw
7418082
I'm inclined to believe you with regards to the websites I mentioned, if only because it looks like those passages have been passed around several websites devoted to spreading hatred and intolerance of Muslims. That said, the passages you cited are not from the Quran; they're hadiths, which are reports made with regard to Muhammad (PBUH) rather than being part of the Quran itself. (It's certainly possible that copies of the Quran have been printed with the hadiths included, but they're not part of the actual text.)
See above. While the hadiths are considered important with regards to Islamic jurisprudence and greater understanding of the Quran, they're not considered part of the Quran itself.
It's more correct to say that every ancient religion has passages and parables that conflict with each other. It's disingenuous to suggest that Islam is particularly notable in this regard.
I think that passing judgment on others is a much worse evil, but to each their own.
I do, and it involves speaking out against hatred and intolerance wherever I find it.
That doesn't really change anything regarding what's been said here.
7418103 Yes you are a SJW and I am a Ex muslim who past friends tried to kill me for leaving. Hate does not come from nowhere