When you told me you had not one, but two OC villains planned for this story, I'll admit I was skeptical. Even once I started the chapter, my first impression was that she was a female Discord.
But as I progressed through the chapter, I realized that while Tazel is just as whimsical as Discord on the surface, underneath there's something . . . demented about her, even without Tartarus' influence. She stands out amongst the other Lords.
4473006 Although it was never my intention to create a female Discord, that's exactly the sentiment I feared would be thrown her way. I just hope others agree with you that her underlying personality – let's call them flaws – would help her to stand out as a bit more unique than that.
While I admit that Fine Crime was towing a fine line in terms of his characterization, I thought Tazel was a little more well defined. And I haven't read the story she's originally from. I got her deal pretty well here, though some of that is knowing that this is Tartarus and everyone here is a touch crazy.
Yikes, psychological torment is even more crippling than physical injuries. Poor Twilight.
Nice role reversals with Sunset here. I'm certain she wouldn't have bet a single bit that she'd end up in this situation.
If Twilight only knew what this world's Trixie would be capable of further down the line...
4473930 I wanted Tazel to be the breaking point for Twilight, a pivotal impact that finally hammers home the grim realization that failure is a definite possibility. Going into her dreams and slaughtering the friends she was so desperate to see? Perfect tool. Which is another major reason I picked Tazel; Luna couldn't be the one to do that (given TvE) and in my headcanon Tazel was the only (known) alternative.
Regarding Sunset, the role reversal was something I heavily debated with myself on prior to writing this chapter, but in the end it felt inevitable. For myself, I never saw Sunset as a bad pony, just a misguided pony with poor priorities. I'd like to believe that seeing the ever-confident and hopeful Twilight reduced to a trembling, terrified mess would actually bring out her good side.
As for Twilight's comment on Trixie, note that she doesn't say Trixie is weak or a poor mage or anything like that, just that she thinks Trixie is the jealous type. It's an important distinction to make, though why isn't obvious yet.
Tazel was no draconequus, but she was still a bizarre-looking creature: a long, green, serpentine tail that curled about in the air, an orange feline head, body and arms, and a pair of leathery green wings to complete the ensemble.
And what do her legs look like? By the way, just what exactly is Tazel's species?
So much to comment on here, why do the chapters have to be so long!
So what does she get out of those who ride her boat? She showed no real purpose in carting ponies around and she doesn't seem like the type to do anything for anyone unless it amuses her. It would have been much better done with other ponies crowding and trying desperately to get a ride like it was the last chopper out of Saigon, and Tazel toying with them, throwing some into the river after "accepting them" and toying with their hope.
It seems like Reddux has become their trump card to getting past any lord who is still capable of fear or rational thought. It takes a lot of the base danger out of the initial meeting here. And oh gosh, heart throbs for that poor unicorn she pulled from the river. Don't do that to me! That got to me more than anything in this chapter, surprisingly.
I should have guessed Luna would show up as an example of envy.
The end of the dream and everything after it was fantastic. I wondered how you were going to start deteriorating Twilight mentally, and the story definitely needed it.
4483372 To do that, Tazel and Chrysalis would have to escape Tartarus. While this is certainly a possibility, it's highly unlikely. I can only think of one (planned) event that could make it happen, but that's a long ways away.
That said, my editor is strongly considering writing a fanfiction of my fanfiction (no higher form of flattery!) that could lend to the possibility should I declare his story canon.
4484783 Having Tazel guide ponies across the Acheron was intended as a reference to Charon, who performs the same task in the original Inferno. She does this by necessity so that ponies unwanted or belonging to the lower Lords can descend to their proper place. While I acknowledge it's not quite as effective as it could have been, In this particular instance I was eager to be a little more true to the original.
Tazel was the perfect tool for breaking Twilight's spirit. Her own subtle rage at having no dreams of her own and the desire to crush the dreams of others in her bitterness – traits she possessed in No Heroes, as well – gave her the edge necessary to hit Twilight where it hurt the most. Tazel had all the 'gifts' to do exactly what needed to be done. I placed her in the exact middle of Twilight's journey because now was the best time to finally wake Twilight up to the realities of her situation.
That said, my editor is strongly considering writing a fanfiction of my fanfiction (no higher form of flattery!) that could lend to the possibility should I declare his story canon.
Well, if it makes any difference, please tell him that I totally want to see it made. And Tazel, you're a jerk.
Suddenly that statue of Luna didn’t look so impressive, and if Twilight did get stuck down here she was determined to make a superior statue of the superior princess.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of this hero-worship that Twilight has going on. Mostly I've been trying to put it down to ignorance, with her still believing that Celestia acted only out of "mistaken identity" (and her not really knowing what this world's Celestia is really like, despite her having thrown Twilight in Tartarus herself). Even so, it seems highly out of character, even if she is in a strange place in an alternate timeline. I don't believe that post-season-three Twilight would ever say that Celestia is "superior" to Luna, even with their relationship and history. She knows that Luna is just as important.
“Now, now. It’s just her opinion.” Sunset patted her on the shoulder with a strained attempt at a smile before adding under her breath, “Even if it’s the entirely wrong opinion…”
And Sunset too? After all she's said about Celestia being horrible? Again, with their past relationship, maybe, but Twi and Sunset both share similar fates right now. If anyone ever threw me in prison, or made me fight to maintain my place at their side, I would never forgive them or respect them again.
Everything looked old and overused, and the feeble tents and shanties could hardly be referred to as ‘shelter.’ The place was quiet, the inhabitants covered in clothes that amounted to little more than rags and smelling about as foul as they looked. Most ignored the newcomers, though a few watched them with a dark, suspecting glint in their eyes.
I am reminded of the slums beneath Canterlot from TvE right now. Deliberate?
“Oh, yes.” The creature was digging through another picnic basket. “Dreams do have a tendency to be nice. Too bad I can’t dream, but at least I can enjoy…” Her words came to a slow paused, her eyes abruptly locking on Twilight. She stared for several seconds, wide-eyed and alarmed, and Twilight found herself shifting under that look. “Umm… something wrong?” The gaze slowly shifted to a peering, heavy-lidded glare. “It was certainly an… enjoyable dream you were having, wasn’t it?”
Oh, crap...
Well, I knew that Tazel was more than she appeared. That dream sequence, though. Damn, man. And you say things will get worse? Bring it on, I say! You can't stop me! Also, for heroic Sunset.
I disagree. Consider that when Celestia held the stupid ball in Twilight's Kingdom, Twilight followed right along without bothering to think about the consequences, and if anyone in the entire show should be logical enough to know the plan's horribly flawed, it's Twilight. That alone strongly suggests to me that she still views Celestia in a starstruck fashion, albeit toned down. But don't worry, you'll be seeing some changes. As for Sunset... well, this subject will be addressed eventually.
Actually no, I wasn't even thinking on the slums when I wrote that. Hindsight, huh?
I love writing Tazel. It's too bad that she's not going to appear in any sequels. A No Heroes prequel, perhaps, but other than that she's out. And before you suggest a TvE sequel featuring her, know that I already have something that negates the possibility.
I'm only through seven chapters now, but I'm already driven to comment.
This is a wonderful story you have. I see in your comments you called it a 'labor of love,' and I think it shows. We all have stories that, while they may not be the most popular or most highly rated in our collections, are nevertheless our favorites simply because so much effort went into their creation.
Dante's Inferno is one of those stories that I wish I could appreciate. It's a literary masterpiece, imaginative, it broke new ground as a form of writing, and its influence on popular culture, even seven hundred years after its writing, is incalculable.
Unfortunately, it's also painful to read. Not just because of the elevated prose, but because Dante clearly wasn't writing for the ages. Inferno is populated not just with references to classical Greek and Roman mythology, which are still reasonably accessible, but also contemporary political and popular figures. A working knowledge of 14th Century Italian politicians comes in very handy when reading The Divine Comedy, but that's something my college education didn't cover, so it looks like I'll have to settle with the Cliffs Notes.
(Side note: Paradise Lost does not suffer from this same problem. It is eminently readable and enjoyable without constant reference to the footnotes.)
I'm rambling. Let's talk about Twilight's Inferno!
Tartarus in My Little Pony is a little odd, when you think about it. Based on the parts we've seen, it isn't so much an afterlife for the damned as an underworld prison, designed (or simply used) for beings too nasty or dangerous for the surface world.
But at the same time you're clearly using it as an analogue for the biblical hell Dante described. This leads to some unsettling consequences -- the biggest, for me, is that people can go to hell and be damned for eternity not for any particular sin they have committed, but simply because they have drawn the ire of some powerful being who wants to get rid of them. Thus Twilight finds herself in Limbo -- and before her, Sunset Shimmer, who also alludes to the fact that Celestia loves tossing ponies in Tartarus.
That's... pretty horrifying.
The way out of Tartarus is guarded by seven lords, each of which personifies a classical vice. These souls, at least, deserve to be in Tartarus, not just because it's the safest place to put them, but also in the sense Dante would have meant -- they are in Tartarus because at some level they want to be there. To use him as an example, Sombra could never exist anywhere else but his little circle of hell; his greed chains him to it far more than the mere gates of Tartarus could ever keep him from leaving.
If this were a more traditional story, our heroes would get past these seven lords by somehow using the opposing virtue to defeat their vice -- that is, using something like charity or selflessness to defeat Sombra's greed. However, this isn't a traditional tale. Instead the heroes, at least through the chapter's I've read so far, rely on their wits, courage, and physical skills to defeat each lord.
Which approach is better? I'm not sure. It almost tempts me to write a story like this myself to see how a more traditional approach might work, but frankly you've already done a better job with this topic than I ever could.
Anyway, enough random musings. Tazel's chapter is still sticking with me, even a day after reading it. Her domain seems to be sloth, but a more accurate description might be despair. Despair was the one unforgivable sin in the old Catholic teachings, as by definition it forsook any hope of God's redemption. Abandoning all hope, as Tazel demands, is a sign that ones really does belong in hell.
What was left of her oldest friend hung limply over her, strips of flesh dangling like sickening ropes. His eyes, dull and lost, stared down at her… and blinked.
Mmph! Now that's getting more like it. Still not as descriptively demented as it could be, but I digress.
Okay I'm officially loving this. I didn't smile once through any of the scenes of gore, nor through Twi's mental anguish. AND I PARTIALLY SMILED THROUGH CUPCAKES!!!
Okay, look, I know this is supposed to be sad...and demented. But then you made me smile with Sunset and now I can't stop smiling. Even after the ending scene.
Her ears perked to the distant sound of running water. She peered ahead and realized that there was a river passing along the edge of the cave system. “Is that… the Acheron?”
While I should have expected it, seeing another writer use this wonderful River of Pain is delightful! Also, a de-horning that is actually painful instead of Tempest Shadow-tier stuff.
Tazel is a spooky, neat little bitch, so I wouldn't worry about how well she came across. I loved the tour she offered, and she's a fine villain even if she's a reference I don't grasp. She still felt like she belonged.
9547597 Tazel is an OC I originally created for my No Heroes series. Since the Trixie vs. Equestria universe is an alternate timeline of No Heroes (and the Fleur-verse), it made sense to make sure to account for her whereabouts in this one. Making her the Lord of Envy just fit in my mind.
When you told me you had not one, but two OC villains planned for this story, I'll admit I was skeptical. Even once I started the chapter, my first impression was that she was a female Discord.
But as I progressed through the chapter, I realized that while Tazel is just as whimsical as Discord on the surface, underneath there's something . . . demented about her, even without Tartarus' influence. She stands out amongst the other Lords.
This is my second favorite chapter.
4473006
Although it was never my intention to create a female Discord, that's exactly the sentiment I feared would be thrown her way. I just hope others agree with you that her underlying personality – let's call them flaws – would help her to stand out as a bit more unique than that.
4473006
Would it be safe to assume that tomorrow's chapter is your favorite?
More please.....
While I admit that Fine Crime was towing a fine line in terms of his characterization, I thought Tazel was a little more well defined. And I haven't read the story she's originally from. I got her deal pretty well here, though some of that is knowing that this is Tartarus and everyone here is a touch crazy.
Yikes, psychological torment is even more crippling than physical injuries. Poor Twilight.
Nice role reversals with Sunset here. I'm certain she wouldn't have bet a single bit that she'd end up in this situation.
If Twilight only knew what this world's Trixie would be capable of further down the line...
Till next time!
0.o wow, you weren't kidding about that cover image..
4473802
Daily updates!
4474388
I know, right?
4473930
I wanted Tazel to be the breaking point for Twilight, a pivotal impact that finally hammers home the grim realization that failure is a definite possibility. Going into her dreams and slaughtering the friends she was so desperate to see? Perfect tool. Which is another major reason I picked Tazel; Luna couldn't be the one to do that (given TvE) and in my headcanon Tazel was the only (known) alternative.
Regarding Sunset, the role reversal was something I heavily debated with myself on prior to writing this chapter, but in the end it felt inevitable. For myself, I never saw Sunset as a bad pony, just a misguided pony with poor priorities. I'd like to believe that seeing the ever-confident and hopeful Twilight reduced to a trembling, terrified mess would actually bring out her good side.
As for Twilight's comment on Trixie, note that she doesn't say Trixie is weak or a poor mage or anything like that, just that she thinks Trixie is the jealous type. It's an important distinction to make, though why isn't obvious yet.
If Tazel Wyrm was voiced, what would she sound like?
Well, Tazel makes me want to read No Heroes, so I'd say you succeeded.
4482247
That's good to know!
And what do her legs look like? By the way, just what exactly is Tazel's species?
4482816
She has no legs, just a snake tail.
And she has no species, either. She's an entirely unique creature.I'll explain more in a PM.
Will Tazel be making any more appearances in this fanfic series? What about Chrysalis?
So much to comment on here, why do the chapters have to be so long!
So what does she get out of those who ride her boat? She showed no real purpose in carting ponies around and she doesn't seem like the type to do anything for anyone unless it amuses her. It would have been much better done with other ponies crowding and trying desperately to get a ride like it was the last chopper out of Saigon, and Tazel toying with them, throwing some into the river after "accepting them" and toying with their hope.
It seems like Reddux has become their trump card to getting past any lord who is still capable of fear or rational thought. It takes a lot of the base danger out of the initial meeting here. And oh gosh, heart throbs for that poor unicorn she pulled from the river. Don't do that to me! That got to me more than anything in this chapter, surprisingly.
I should have guessed Luna would show up as an example of envy.
The end of the dream and everything after it was fantastic. I wondered how you were going to start deteriorating Twilight mentally, and the story definitely needed it.
4483372
To do that, Tazel and Chrysalis would have to escape Tartarus. While this is certainly a possibility, it's highly unlikely. I can only think of one (planned) event that could make it happen, but that's a long ways away.
That said, my editor is strongly considering writing a fanfiction of my fanfiction (no higher form of flattery!) that could lend to the possibility should I declare his story canon.
4484783
Having Tazel guide ponies across the Acheron was intended as a reference to Charon, who performs the same task in the original Inferno. She does this by necessity so that ponies unwanted or belonging to the lower Lords can descend to their proper place. While I acknowledge it's not quite as effective as it could have been, In this particular instance I was eager to be a little more true to the original.
Tazel was the perfect tool for breaking Twilight's spirit. Her own subtle rage at having no dreams of her own and the desire to crush the dreams of others in her bitterness – traits she possessed in No Heroes, as well – gave her the edge necessary to hit Twilight where it hurt the most. Tazel had all the 'gifts' to do exactly what needed to be done. I placed her in the exact middle of Twilight's journey because now was the best time to finally wake Twilight up to the realities of her situation.
4485089
Well, if it makes any difference, please tell him that I totally want to see it made. And Tazel, you're a jerk.
I am now confused. Which means I need sleep. Damn.
Excellent.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of this hero-worship that Twilight has going on. Mostly I've been trying to put it down to ignorance, with her still believing that Celestia acted only out of "mistaken identity" (and her not really knowing what this world's Celestia is really like, despite her having thrown Twilight in Tartarus herself). Even so, it seems highly out of character, even if she is in a strange place in an alternate timeline. I don't believe that post-season-three Twilight would ever say that Celestia is "superior" to Luna, even with their relationship and history. She knows that Luna is just as important.
And Sunset too? After all she's said about Celestia being horrible? Again, with their past relationship, maybe, but Twi and Sunset both share similar fates right now. If anyone ever threw me in prison, or made me fight to maintain my place at their side, I would never forgive them or respect them again.
I am reminded of the slums beneath Canterlot from TvE right now. Deliberate?
Oh, crap...
Well, I knew that Tazel was more than she appeared. That dream sequence, though. Damn, man. And you say things will get worse? Bring it on, I say! You can't stop me!
Also, for heroic Sunset.
I disagree. Consider that when Celestia held the stupid ball in Twilight's Kingdom, Twilight followed right along without bothering to think about the consequences, and if anyone in the entire show should be logical enough to know the plan's horribly flawed, it's Twilight. That alone strongly suggests to me that she still views Celestia in a starstruck fashion, albeit toned down. But don't worry, you'll be seeing some changes. As for Sunset... well, this subject will be addressed eventually.
Actually no, I wasn't even thinking on the slums when I wrote that. Hindsight, huh?
I love writing Tazel. It's too bad that she's not going to appear in any sequels. A No Heroes prequel, perhaps, but other than that she's out. And before you suggest a TvE sequel featuring her, know that I already have something that negates the possibility.
I'm only through seven chapters now, but I'm already driven to comment.
This is a wonderful story you have. I see in your comments you called it a 'labor of love,' and I think it shows. We all have stories that, while they may not be the most popular or most highly rated in our collections, are nevertheless our favorites simply because so much effort went into their creation.
Dante's Inferno is one of those stories that I wish I could appreciate. It's a literary masterpiece, imaginative, it broke new ground as a form of writing, and its influence on popular culture, even seven hundred years after its writing, is incalculable.
Unfortunately, it's also painful to read. Not just because of the elevated prose, but because Dante clearly wasn't writing for the ages. Inferno is populated not just with references to classical Greek and Roman mythology, which are still reasonably accessible, but also contemporary political and popular figures. A working knowledge of 14th Century Italian politicians comes in very handy when reading The Divine Comedy, but that's something my college education didn't cover, so it looks like I'll have to settle with the Cliffs Notes.
(Side note: Paradise Lost does not suffer from this same problem. It is eminently readable and enjoyable without constant reference to the footnotes.)
I'm rambling. Let's talk about Twilight's Inferno!
Tartarus in My Little Pony is a little odd, when you think about it. Based on the parts we've seen, it isn't so much an afterlife for the damned as an underworld prison, designed (or simply used) for beings too nasty or dangerous for the surface world.
But at the same time you're clearly using it as an analogue for the biblical hell Dante described. This leads to some unsettling consequences -- the biggest, for me, is that people can go to hell and be damned for eternity not for any particular sin they have committed, but simply because they have drawn the ire of some powerful being who wants to get rid of them. Thus Twilight finds herself in Limbo -- and before her, Sunset Shimmer, who also alludes to the fact that Celestia loves tossing ponies in Tartarus.
That's... pretty horrifying.
The way out of Tartarus is guarded by seven lords, each of which personifies a classical vice. These souls, at least, deserve to be in Tartarus, not just because it's the safest place to put them, but also in the sense Dante would have meant -- they are in Tartarus because at some level they want to be there. To use him as an example, Sombra could never exist anywhere else but his little circle of hell; his greed chains him to it far more than the mere gates of Tartarus could ever keep him from leaving.
If this were a more traditional story, our heroes would get past these seven lords by somehow using the opposing virtue to defeat their vice -- that is, using something like charity or selflessness to defeat Sombra's greed. However, this isn't a traditional tale. Instead the heroes, at least through the chapter's I've read so far, rely on their wits, courage, and physical skills to defeat each lord.
Which approach is better? I'm not sure. It almost tempts me to write a story like this myself to see how a more traditional approach might work, but frankly you've already done a better job with this topic than I ever could.
Anyway, enough random musings. Tazel's chapter is still sticking with me, even a day after reading it. Her domain seems to be sloth, but a more accurate description might be despair. Despair was the one unforgivable sin in the old Catholic teachings, as by definition it forsook any hope of God's redemption. Abandoning all hope, as Tazel demands, is a sign that ones really does belong in hell.
Can't wait to see where this goes.
Mmph! Now that's getting more like it. Still not as descriptively demented as it could be, but I digress.
This gives me a real Percy Jackson fell but hella of a darker. Which is fucking awesome in my books
Wheres dante wen you need him
Okay I'm officially loving this. I didn't smile once through any of the scenes of gore, nor through Twi's mental anguish. AND I PARTIALLY SMILED THROUGH CUPCAKES!!!
Good work you fiend.
Okay, look, I know this is supposed to be sad...and demented.
But then you made me smile with Sunset and now I can't stop smiling. Even after the ending scene.
I like this story.
While I should have expected it, seeing another writer use this wonderful River of Pain is delightful! Also, a de-horning that is actually painful instead of Tempest Shadow-tier stuff.
Tazel is a spooky, neat little bitch, so I wouldn't worry about how well she came across. I loved the tour she offered, and she's a fine villain even if she's a reference I don't grasp. She still felt like she belonged.
9547597
Tazel is an OC I originally created for my No Heroes series. Since the Trixie vs. Equestria universe is an alternate timeline of No Heroes (and the Fleur-verse), it made sense to make sure to account for her whereabouts in this one. Making her the Lord of Envy just fit in my mind.
My parents always poke fun at my empathy for the "villains " but icannot help but sympathize. Really like Tazel's character. :)