7083609
No, when I first saw it I enjoyed it. Personally I think Daring Doubt is one of the worst episodes in the series.

7083609
really? Some people hate it?
Compared to episodes like Yakity Sax or Non-Compete Clause, the daring Do episodes are like the holy grail of quality, any of them.

7083609
Literally first time I heard that a Daring Do episode is worst in the series. There are way more worse candidates. Also never heard of that particular reviewer and I doubt he shaped opinions of most people.

Oh, which Daring Do episode anyway? Daring Don't, Done or Doubt? If Don't then it is the one people disliked because they preferred Daring Do as fictional character, and some liked MLP comic making Twilight's mom to be the author.

I've never really liked Spike At Your Service much, because the writers just *dump* on this young dragon who has been raising a neurotic unicorn all by himself and managing a library, but when he winds up with the Apple family, he turns into a rolling disaster. (Point of view is so handy)

7083609
Which episode specifically? I fully admit I never particularly cared for Daring Do as a character and ultimately was kind of annoyed when her adventures were discovered to be real, but I didn't think the episodes were particularly awful in their own right. I just personally didn't get into the character since she was just a slightly different variation of Rainbow Dash and, as a whole in any medium, I just don't like narcissistic characters (Though Daring is way toned down on the narcissistic front compared to Dash). Heck, the episode that introduced Quibble Pants was one of my favorites of that particular season.

7083620

That there is the mark of writers not talking to each other, I guarantee it.

7083609 No. Daring Done and Daring Doubt were even worse

7083613

Also never heard of that particular reviewer and I doubt he shaped opinions of most people.

He reviewed the series up until season two l, which was around the time when he started bashing the show. He's become quite infamous in this fandom for his views on the show. For example, in the Nostalgia Critic's review of Son of the Mask, at one point he's quoted as calling the third season "an abomination." He went so far as to watch the trailer for season four just for the sole purpose of posting a video of him bashing it. So, needless to say, no one takes his views or opinions on the show very seriously. In fact, a lot of his former fans stopped watching his videos due to him constantly pointing out how much he hated the series regularly in his videos that had nothing to do with the subject. And things got worse when he needlessly bashed Gravity Falls.

7083623 That's not just a MLP issue. Star Trek TOS had some of that "Let's bring in this famous author to do an episode. Gee, this episode doesn't look much like the rest of the show." Starship Troopers had it bad when the director admitted to having never read the book past the second chapter. Much of the Star Trek series-es managed by putting together a writing team and establishing a series bible of Thou Shall Not Go Outside. Babylon 5 managed by having JMS write the *whole* five-year thing, with only minor bits done by other writers.

The MLP comics have both benefited and been dinged for letting their writers go nuts. I don't think we would have gotten the Sombra/Celestia romance arc or the Cadence/Shining Armor in school arc if they had been fully under Hasbro's cartoon rules (where characters were forbidden to even kiss on screen).

Why should I care about what some picky little prissy brat thinks about the show? They sound like a hater if you ask me. Those people are problematic in my opinion. And, again, there's no reason for reviews if they're only going to nitpick at an episode. It's not like Hasbro's going to learn from it anyway. Why should it listen to what one brat says?

I simply have lower expectations, and this allows me to enjoy most shows without complaints. You can pretend you have class when it comes to watching and having an opinion on My Little Pony, but let's face it... you're complaining about a show that was not originally meant for you.

Love this fandom tho.

7083636

Star Trek TOS had some of that "Let's bring in this famous author to do an episode. Gee, this episode doesn't look much like the rest of the show."

Are you by any chance referring to the Animated Series episode with the Kzinti?

7083636
I've always been of two minds on that high school romance bit. On the one hand, it was a fantastic character piece, and did wonders to "humanize" the somewhat two-dimensional Shining Armor.

But on the other hand the whole premise clashes with the show setting itself. A great deal of mental gymnastics are required to explain how a 1800s-1900s something fantasy city acquired a school right out of the 50s. I've never really been able to reconcile that.

7083634
Oh, now he sounds familiar. No wonder I forgot.

7083609
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7083647
I actually really love Daring Do as a real character instead of one in a book.

I was mostly okay with “Daring Doubt”, it was the twist with Ahuizotl that I wasn’t a fan of, largely because it didn’t make sense and was rather contradictory to his previous intentions and portrayals. That was why I made “A Moment of Truth”, really.

7083711
Please don't tag everyone in the thread just to voice your opinion. Tagging original post is really enough.

7083651

The show has been somewhat inconsistent with the setting, ranging from late-medieval to late Victorian as the series progressed; with lots of "A Wizard Unicorn Did It" technological inconsistency. But the comics take that up an order of magnitude, and break canon so often that they are more properly considered an alternate timeline of their own; or rather, a series of alternate timelines, since they don't even maintain internal consistency.

Of course, the show staff has long said that consistency and continuity weren't among their primary goals, so it's less of a real problem here than it would have been for other shows.

7083711 That's what made the episode so bad. That and Fluttershy.

7083721
Hey, I’m just trying to make conversation is all.

7083759
Have you checked out my story, by any chance?

7083609
Well, the first Daring Do episode, "Read It and Weep", was the Reading Rainbow Dash episode. I don't really have much bad to say about that one, though we'll see when it comes up in the rewatches.

Later ones... well, I wasn't much of a fan of Daring Do being real, but I can think of worse episodes, too...

--Sweetie Belle

7083780 No.

7083848 "Mysterious Mare Do Well" isn't as bad when compared to the likes of "The Edning of the End", "Feeling Pinkie Keen", or "Yakkity-Sax." With "The Mysterious Mare Do Well", I could at least see what the writers were trying do. They just executed it extremely poorly.

7083853
>implying 'The Ending of the End' is bad.

7083848
7083853
Well, that's not the greatest of episodes, and I'd have to rewatch it to see how I feel about it.

Doesn't strike me as nearly as bad as "What About Discord?", though, for example.

--Sweetie Belle

7083609
I hate the idea of the episode, but not the episode itself.

7083609
Which episode are you even talking about?

7084180
Well first, that's a completly different episode, so you should probably change the title.

Secondly, I think it was probably the worst episode when released, but sadly it has been surpassed repeatedly since.

7083863 Ugh! I hated that episode!
7083862 Some parts were good.

7083636
But wasn't SayS done by regular writers? What you're talking about is more like Sounds of Silence.

7083651
The show has been all over the place with era, but the comics pushed it even more, especially early on. (See TV in the Rainbow mini). But then, they've always been a lot geekier - I'm pretty sure bronies are the intended audience.

And while it's no longer as relevant, I both dislike Daring Do being real on a conceptual level and feel that her episodes are not usually very good (with the notable exception of Stranger than Fan Fiction).

7084376
I agree with you on that. It’s more of the reason I started watching My Hero Academia.

7084415
I don't see a connection.

7084421
It’s has hero’s becoming friends with each other.

I personally really liked that episode (for some reason) but in my opinion the character with the worst episodes is spike, I just really don't like how in order for spike to shine he has to have everyone else brought down which I just REALLY don't like.

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I'd definitely say "Feeling Pinkie Keen" and "What About Discord" were among the bottom 5 worst, along with "Princess Spike", "Games Ponies Play", and "Yakity-Sax"; with "The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well" was... I'd say a bit worse than middling, but not among the bottom 10 worst.

The rest of the bottom 10 I'd say would be "The Break Up Break Down", "Secrets and Pies", "The Hooffields and McColts", "Equestria Games", and "Spike at Your Service". Huh, lots of Spike episodes in my bottom 10 worst. When Spike is a supporting character, he usually tends to be written well; but as a main character, he tends to get really crap writing that breaks character. Suddenly the highly-competent "Number One Assistant" becomes a bumbling idiot. Really, any Spike episode except "Molt Down" would be somewhere close to the "worst" end of the episode list.

7084954 I actually really enjoyed both "The Break Up Break Down" and "Equestria Games" quite a bit, and I didn't have any issues with "The Hooffields and McColts." "Spike at Your Service" isn't as bad when compared to some other Spike episodes that would come later. "Secrets and Pies", though, showcased Rainbow Dash at her worst, at least up until "2, 4, 6 Greaaat."

Really, any Spike episode except "Molt Down" would be somewhere close to the "worst" end of the episode list.

Would you put "Gauntlet of Fire" in the same category?

7083609 Mysterious Mare-Do-Well is one of those eps that suffers massively from presentation.

I wouldn't personally put it as an episode I disliked massively, especially compared to some S1 episodes (many of which didn't land well with me at all!), but it's hard to argue that it doesn't look bad. A few things I like about it is the portrayal of Dash's ego, which is fairly consistent with both her insecurity and need for attention. I also rather like the twist that Mare-do-Well is all of the ponies, which is both a rather neato twist on superhero identities and also a fun reminder that the team as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

The episode did not highlight the need for Mare-do-Well as a tool to remind Dash of humility. It can very easily be interpreted as a means to simply make Dash feel bad. As this was the point of the episode, I'd say it was a failure in achieving its primary purpose, though knowledge of Dash's character makes it... more palatable in my opinion. This is something that needed to be addressed for the episode to work without considerable mental gymnastics, though. It is clearly flawed, but I do prefer it to A dog and Pony Show, at least...

7083609 I thought the episode was okay.

7085145

I actually really enjoyed both "The Break Up Break Down" and "Equestria Games" quite a bit, and I didn't have any issues with "The Hooffields and McColts."

The problems I have with those three episodes is that they're idiot plots, and I hate idiot plots. The general lack of them was what attracted me to the show to begin with. Maybe not as bad as "Games Ponies Play", which was quite possibly the biggest idiot plot in the entire run, but still idiot plots, especially "The Break Up Break Down". "Equestria Games" also depends in large part on cringe comedy, which I dislike nearly as intensely.

Would you put "Gauntlet of Fire" in the same category?

No, but I don't tend to see it as a "Spike" episode per se. More of an ensemble or "buddy" episode, since Princess Ember pulls focus nearly as much as Spike does, and the episode isn't really about Spike's character development as much as it is development for the dragons as a whole, and a character introduction for Ember. Same with "The Times, They Are A-Changeling"; which is as much Thorax's episode as Spike's, although Spike does get more development in that one.

The episodes that I would consider strictly Spike episodes would be these:
"Secret of My Excess"
"Dragon Quest"
"Spike at Your Service"
"Just for Sidekicks"
"Power Ponies" (technically an ensemble episode, but the focus is clearly on Spike, and the rest of the Mane 6 weren't really critical to the story)
"Equestria Games"
"Princess Spike"
"Molt Down"
"Father Knows Beast"
(I haven't watched Season 9 yet, so can't speak to any of those episodes.)

With the exception of "Dragon Quest" (the best Spike episode) and "Molt Down" (good, but not great), the rest of them range from mediocre ("Secret of My Excess", "Power Ponies"), to bad ("Just for Sidekicks", "Father Knows Beast"), to awful ("Spike at Your Service", "Princess Spike", "Equestria Games").

7085220

The idea was a good one, but the clumsy writing did muddy the message a bit. That said, I didn't dislike it nearly as much as many others seem to. It really only needed a few minor tweaks to make it a good episode.

7085311
My opinion on that episode is about the same, and it's also why I believe it's also so widely and often brought up. It's issue is easy to see and fix, so a large demographic sees it as an easy target to point a finger at, point out the flaws, make them seem bigger than they are, bring up the easy solutions, and then call themselves geniuses for seeing something those hacky writers didn't.

7085305 i actually hated "Dragon Quest."

7085330

Yeah, that about sums it up.

I think a lot of fans don't really understand the pressures that writers and other show staff are under when making the episodes -- the deadlines, the management interference and demands, the obnoxious and nit-picky fans... and so on. And some writers clearly "get it" more than others. Some less-than-stellar episodes are bound to occur, they do with every long-running show. Still doesn't excuse incompetent Spike or stupid Pinkie, tho.

7085333
It's a solid episode IMO - but that moral..

7085345 I even set up a whole challenge based around the premise of trying to replicate (in crude fanfic form, of course) some of the pressures felt when writing a show episode.

Every now and then I encourage folks to try it out so they can see for themselves how some simple restrictions can make writing a consistent show a big challenge, but up until this point, only the one person has attempted (and completed) the challenge...

7085806 I didn't much care for it. What was wrong with the moral?

7085943
Well it depends - do you prefer to read dragons as a race or a stand-in for the male gender? Neither of them nets you a good interpretation of Spike deciding there's no value in that side of him and trying to be a pony instead.

7085948

do you prefer to read dragons as a race or a stand-in for the male gender?

I prefer to read what's there, and not read into it something that's not there. The dragons were clearly a "stand-in" for obnoxious teenagers, since they acted like, you know, obnoxious teenagers. And the moral was quite unsubtle and blatantly about standing up for yourself, and resisting peer pressure when it's trying to get you to do something you know is wrong.

7085967
Obnoxious teenage boys, in particular. Combined with the general girly coding of ponies, emphasised several times in the episode, there's certainly room for a gender reading as well as the obvious race one that managed to offend not just me, but at least one writer for the official comic.

As for the moral, Spike certainly did those things, but listening to what he actually says, he frames it as a rejection of draconic values in favour of "being a pony".

7085948
I gotta agree with 7085967 here. The moral was about choosing who you want to be and who you want to emulate. Spike chose not to be like those teenagers who claimed this is what dragons are supposed to be, thus why he said he'd rather choose to be a pony. He didn't reject being a dragon, he rejected their interpretation of a dragon and embraced their interpretation of weakness (symbolized by ponies).

Selecting and putting stand-ins is pure bullshit, by the way. That's nothing but a way to create a narrative that you want to push rather than what is there. "Oh, that's not teenagers being bratty, that's the patriarchy!" Man, the way everyone and their uncle keeps using this cheap trick is really worrisome.