I can't recall many examples of HiE fics that don't have apparent flaws. What is a good formula to have when writing an HiE fic, other than the obvious?

5040903

What is a good formula to have when writing an HiE fic

Bit of a broad question, is it not?

5040909
I'd just like some examples of HiE's that stray away from the norm of "X seduces [Main 6 Member]" or "X is really OP and defeats the infamous enemy in Equestria".

5040903
In all honestly, the same formula one would use to write any fic. Don't treat HiE like a genre or like there's a "right" way to do it with certain, expected themes (other than there being a human in Equestria, of course).

Just write something good, execution over premise, make x meaningful, blah blah blah, yadda yadda, literally everything you've heard before and are about to hear again in this thread.

5040903
Pacing, grammar, balance. Other than that, go crazy, add memes, and have fun. Order of importance from first to last of those listed.

Take writing classes or use the things they teach you in English classes and vary the sentence structures, and proofread... A LOT.

5040903 Become Demon Eyes Laharl, that's how.

5040903 I'm in a middle of actually writing supposedly my first HiE fic that's also part crossover... it's been getting decent likes and what-not. Ignoring that though, I'd say it mostly leads up to how the humans in the story are being portrayed.

In my case, they're powerful enough to outrank Celestia and Luna (Yes I am not joking, this is canon to their lore) but they treat this world like it was nothing (Also canon as where they come from, other warriors from other worlds appear so them being in a different world doesn't surprise them that much) and yet treat the resident with respect, protect them from harm, and are willing to share their knowledge without too much reprisal. They even treat Celestia and Luna and many other royalties save probably Blueblood as their equals... so yeah, the way the humans are being treated count towards a good like I guess

5040903 Alright first do what you would do if you made a non human oc and make a good story.

Now change the species to human and really I would recommend skipping over 90% of the reaction to the mlp world and learning about the culture, it has been done a 100 times over and can throw your audience for a loop.

For example start off with your OC having just begun adjusting to life in equestria and then in later chapters put hints of how they came here and add a few noodle incidents to get the readers attention for example let me try using myself as an example.

Me : well Twilight I have to thank you.

Twilight : for what?

Me : well I've been helping you do some research for 20 minutes and you haven't tried to set me on fire or hit me with a lightning bolt

Twilight : I said I was sorry, it was an accident

Me : well those sorts of things tend to stick in your nightmares

5040903 There's no formula for writing a good story. That you start out wanting it to be HiE suggests the wrong approach - a good story should be about the story, not about starting with specific conditions and then trying to shoehorn them into a story as an afterthought.

You need a compelling plot first. Do you have a plot? Does it absolutely require HiE? Or did you just decide you like the idea of HiE before there was a specific reason for it even happen?

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Thanks guys.

And I do have something in mind that distinguishes this story from the rest. While I do want to add the human acclimation to Equestrian culture, the central focus of the story is going to be more aligned with human nature and what a human in Equestria would do in a world that only knows peace. Most ponies don't know hatred, greed, or anything that humans often succumb to. I want to see how a human could impact the morality of the ponies that surround him, and test their limits. The best kind of villain is one who believes he is fighting for a good cause.

5040997 Indeed my good sir! Twirls moustache evilly

5041003
Having said that, I think I need to scrap the prologue.

Doesn't quite fit what I just envisioned, but I'll make something work.

5040950
Memes... got it.

I got plenty of dank ones.

5041008
Memes are only number three in importance. Remember that pacing, grammar, and balance are tied for number one on the importance scale.

5041005 Well, you'll get it right someday

5040903

1. Actually take the time to write half-decent characters.
2. If you have to make a character OP, either balance it out with something or at least make it relevant to the plot.
3. Try to have something that resembles a plot.
4. Avoid Displaced.
5.

add memes

Ignore this. The only thing worse than a fic over-saturated with internet memes is a fic with FNAF references.

5041023
What makes something a displaced fic anyways? I hear that word tossed around all the time.

5041040

Displaced fics are essentially crossovers, except that:

1. Instead of an actual crossover, it's a self-insert (and usually their friends) in costumes that gain all the powers of the characters they are cosplaying as.
2. They are dictated by this overarching 'lore' that is essentially a set-up to stroke egos and facilitate crossovers with other Displaced fics.
3. Somewhere, somehow, the Displaced character is going to end up fucking the writer's favorite pony.
4. 99% (if not 100%) Displaced characters are usually American teenagers with the personalities of paper bags and small-penis syndrome.

5040903 You don't.

5040903 Well, I can put my 2 cents in I guess.

1 - Have a point for the human's existance. There should be a plot or narrative reason to use a human as a character. Are you writing a 'stranger in a strange land' type of story? A human works for that. Are you writing a strait up romance? A human docent work well for that, unless the romance also touches on things like racism, cultural conflicts, and so on. Putting a human into your fic is the same as writing aliens into orgional fic. Have a point for them, don't just put them there.
2 - Make the human interesting. This is where most HiE fics fuck up. The Human is a bland boring piece of wet tissuepaper. They don't have to be Elon Musk or Nicoli Tesla, but for fucks sake make them interesting! Don't go with just a gamer, or just a jock. Make them a real fucking person with interests and likes and dislikes and personality! You don't want to make them 'relatable', that actually makes the story boring since the plot's focus should be on the human. If the story focuses on a character that is just 'a dude' who 'is a gamer' and is 'a nice guy who is a bit awkward', sure most people can relate to them, but the story's protagonist or focus is SO INCREDIBLY BORING! Compelling > Relatable. Every time!
3 - Different ponies should react differently Some ponies would be afraid of the human, some would not. Some might find the human interesting. Some would not. Within any given group of ponies, individuals should have differing opinions and reactions to the human. Somehow almost ever mlp fic has everypony reacting the same way to the human. This is not only unrealistic, but is immersion breaking. Wierd things like that should only happen in dream sequences.
4 - Feel free to do a self insert. No seriously! Do it! Just be honest about it. Not as in say your doing a self insert, but as in 'your avatar reacts to the situation in the same way you realy truly would. If you do that, most self inserts become very interesting characters since they are a fully developed person and not some cardboard cutout with a demographics face pasted on it.

5 - figure out what the plot is and how the story will go before you write it.

Old saying that's true: There are no bad ideas, only badly exicuted ones. A good author could salvage the idea behind any HiE and make it good. Just work out your story before writing it and it will be much better for it.

5040903

Don't start by going: "I want to write a HiE fic" and then try to think of a story.

Start by having a good idea for a story, which happens to fall under HiE. It's not about putting a human in Equestria: It's about why you put a human in Equestria, and who that human is.

5040903 honestly I would say the same way you write a well written anything else. Good original or at least accurate characters, unique perspective and a good imagination.
Sure you can do something that is unpopular but that doesnt make it not a good story it just makes it about an unpopular topic.

5040903 I should think it's rather easy to write a structurally sound and readable HiE.

I should think it's far harder to write an interesting one. Even when the pacing and writing flows smoothly, most 'typical' HiE I've read have been distinctly dull and uninspired. Not all, of course, but you'd think that transdimensional travel would imply more interesting premises than 'human goes to Ponyville, lives there for a bit'. Probably because of this:

What is a good formula to have

Formulas vex me. Every time I start seeing a formula people follow, little alarm bells go off in my head. If I already know the story before reading it, you can bet I'm not going to be particularly interested. Avoid formulas unless you're specifically looking for a challenge. Be original. Be inventive. That'll turn a well-written HiE into an interesting one.

5041347 Apparently that's what I'm going through right now... except it's also part crossover with a game not a lot know of so there's a little bit of uniqueness there...

5041435 Problem is, most crossovers I've seen tend to have their own formulas to stick to, and crossing MLP over with a universe nobody has thought of doesn't automatically mean that it's going to be an original or interesting story.

I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody has crossed the Septimus Heap stories over with MLP (to my knowledge, at least) but if all I do is take Septimus or Jenna, send them to Equestria because of a spell, and have them have a couple of generic adventures with the main cast, well, it's still pretty basic in terms of premises. A lot of crossovers I've seen have very often been just normal HiE, but with a pre-existing character instead of an OC, which is only marginally better in some cases, and in others, it can often be worse.

5040903

Good characterization and worldbuilding.

5041494 True enough... it's been a case of decent if my likes were to say anything though I can't say much other that though...

5042425 I'm not sure I understood that comment.

5042844 Eh, sorry let me try to be specific... I've gotten about eighteen likes which is decent for me. Whether it's because it's a crossover not a lot have seen or it's the six human characters that is being shown on the cover art that pulled their attention, I can't say which one seems more likely.

The humans themselves are, for lack of a better word, overpowering as stated in their lore. It's stated in their lore that they gained powers greater than any Gods within their world. This has assumptions as it never specifies how powerful they gotten, but going by the fact that they killed gods whose power can be spoken true such as one of Creation, it's best to guest that the power exceeds possibly even Discord who can bend reality. Lore-wise, they're that stupidly powerful... Despite them being all-powerful though, they fell to the end of the blade mostly because they were exhausted from all the fighting. So in essence, they're powerful but like regular people, they can be tuckered out.

Character-wise for them, they're probably the most gentle (save for the only armored character but even then, he still can be gentle, just as long as you do not stoke his vengeance-fueled fire) and caring humans you'd likely see. They have faults yes, but they learn from them and take it in stride. In their world, they're well-known to even their enemies who begun to fear them because of how determined they are to keep up the good fight and the human race going as they are trying to keep their friends and family alive until their last breath. Unfortunately, despite their best efforts, only one human survived the war.

I could go on about the six character themselves but that's would make this post be bigger than it was originally intended so I'll cut it short here

I'd give my tips.

1. It's your first story and believe me, it's gonna suck, or not do very well because no person has ever done a great story on the first try, those that say so are lying to you and themselves.
2. There's a fine line between boring cliche that turns everyone off and fun cliche, tread lightly.
3. Don't get the main character fucking your favourite pony UNLESS IT'S WELL DAMN DONE! Not 5 lines of dialogue and then bam! Sex!
4. Twist the Pony characters a bit but not to the point where they are different characters, otherwise they might be like Letters from a Disgruntled Friendship Student like characters.
5. Don't make the Human OP, if you are, you better put some interesting stuff in there or there's some good twist to it.
6. Try make the entrance not a portal, use that imagination, portals are about the most overdone way of entry.
7. Ultimately it's your story, go hog wild.
8. Grammar, a good Pace and a good plot will go a long way.
9. Ponification is generally something you want to be careful how you write it, some are bad and some are good.

There's more but I'd be rambling on forever, oh and don't rush your story, plan it out or at least the first few chapters, look them over get a pre-reader perhaps. Other than that, Good Luck. One more thing, try read some HIEs, see what trends are around, what people dislike most and like most, you might get some inspiration.

5040903

I can't recall many examples of HiE fics that don't have apparent flaws.

Good luck finding flawless amateur fiction in general...

Anyway, read 5041160 's post for some points I was going to make.

Also, don't follow formulas.

(Honestly, most of the decent advice has been given already.)

5040903
The biggest rule is not make it a brony in Equestria. Also from what I've seen the best tend to treat ponies as an alien species and go the first contact route (with either an astronaut of some kind going there, or a human going by magic portal). Aside from that, ditto to what Dropbear said here 5041056

5043855 Thank you for the shout out! But...

Also, don't follow formulas.

I have to disagree there. Especially if you conciter the Hero's Journey a formula. If you actually know the formula and it's one of the 7 basic plots, you SHOULD follow it because it will actually make your story better. But I will agree that most modern formulas and reinventions of older formula's are terrible.

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I have to disagree there. Especially if you conciter the Hero's Journey a formula.

I do not. I was thinking more in terms of specific formulas that tell you in much more detail how and what to write in a story. The "Five Score" formula, for example. (It's really irritating how you could read the first 1-3 chapters of almost any Five Score story and get the same thing every time, or just skip them because you already know what's going to happen.)

For the Seven Basic Plots, the word I'd probably use is something more like "archetype."

But. Semantics aside, you're right, so overall the point is ceded.

5044431 Ohhhh that's what you meant! Yeah... my god those are irritating.

5043862

While I have yet to see a "brony in Equestria" story done particularly well, this isn't really an indication that they can't be done well, and very few of them achieved enough notoriety for me to even notice them. At the same time, "random nobody non-brony in Equestria" stories are basically repeating each other beat by beat by now.

Human appears (usually, in Everfree,) Human meets one of the Mane 6 by chance, Human is accepted after short initial conflict over trivialities, Human tries to figure out ponies (this is essentially a checklist,) Human announces their intention to go home and finds out they can't, Human gravitates to favorite Mane 6 member, Human starts angsting over being homesick ...This is where some deviation starts happening, but at least half of the stories seem to get dropped around this point.

Bronies in Equestria tend to go for a fix fic, at least. Random nobodies tend to go nowhere.

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Bronies in Equestria tend to go for a fix fic, at least. Random nobodies tend to go nowhere.

Honestly, I'd rather take a story going nowhere over a fixfic. The latter is bland, but fixfics are usually god awful.

5044543 I'm afraid what you've described kinda reminds me of the few 'brony in Equestria' I've read, too.

Where the idea typically falls apart (more so than regular HiE, at least) is that where most stories aim to suspend people's disbelief, reminding the reader that everything they're reading is in a fictional universe by having the universe be part of a fictional show tends to have the opposite effect, and very few authors adjust for that. Heck, I probably wouldn't. It's the same reason meme-jokes are so cringeworthy: they're a constant reminder that there you are, reading mlp fanfiction when you could be off doing something productive.

It's not engrossing or immersive because the story is reminding you it's fake. Can things be done about it? I imagine so. It's just harder.

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I'd say that due to there being so little to fix in MLP, they typically end up just as bland, actually.

5044691

I'm afraid what you've described kinda reminds me of the few 'brony in Equestria' I've read, too.

Stories, like most other things in life, are learned through imitation, it's easier to imitate something that you see more examples of. As far as my observations go, bronies in equestria are the least common, while the most common characters with any kind of actual occupation would be soldiers. Some 'brony in Equestria' follow the exact same pattern as well, because there's nothing notable for them to imitate.

It's not engrossing or immersive because the story is reminding you it's fake. Can things be done about it? I imagine so. It's just harder.

It is. But with the way people so commonly write for no other reason than to beat a silly challenge, you'd think somebody would be up to actually overcoming this one. :)

5045518 So you'd think. I've actually been prone to writing to beat challenges myself.

I suspect the problem in that area is simply that as far as challenges go, it's, well, incredibly boring. My very first 'writing challenge' involved me flipping HiE on its head... not just writing it well, but changing how it worked. And I've only been stepping my game up since (with varied results).

Usually, the majority of people I've seen who could beat the 'BiE challenge' often have more interesting challenges to beat in the first place. It's like writing a good Alicorn OC. Everyone has thought of that one. Y'know? It's just kind of a boring premise without something real spicy thrown in.