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Jul
18th
2016

Who Is The Lesser Of Two Evils? · 1:50am Jul 18th, 2016

With the conventions come up, America prepares for the next Presidential run as the conventions will signal the official start of the race for our 45th President of the United States. This election has been very hotly debated all over the world due to the unique buildup as well as it’s runners. This mainly has to do with the fact that this is an election many are calling “The Choice Between Two Evils”. In most elections, there is always that one “bad candidate” who is portrayed as the worst choice (Whether they are or not is up to each individual) by the media. Sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. However, this year both Hillary Clinton of the Democrats and Donald Trump of the Republicans are equally hated by not just those opposite of their political alignment, but even by those of their very party. The hatred has become so bad that it's pretty much been established as a war now.

Yet the question remains. Who is the lesser evil of these two? If both are seen as wrong choices for America, which one would do the least damage over all?

For the Democrats, the nominee they have is a very “established” politician who has a history of playing all sides as long as she gets power from it. A woman with a lot of skeletons in her closet, Hillary Clinton is the first female candidate to run for President of the United States for one of the two major parties of America. Controversy is the best to describe Hillary’s political career. She’s switched between Conservative and Liberal beliefs many times, often betraying those she once called allies. Still, with her name comes power, and Clinton knows how to use that power to her benefit. Even during her time as Secretary of State under President Obama has she been able to curb her influence in his reign. However, there are many skeletons in her closet that have haunted her this election: Whitewater, Benghazi, the email security faults, fixed votes accusations, and more have only painted a dark power-hungry image of a woman who claims to be for the people.

There is also the fact that she has had a harder time getting those who are “Leftists” and “Millennials” on her side due to the rise of her chief rival in the nominee election, Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders launched a surprising “revolution” campaign that saw him go toe to toe with Hillary Clinton. However, it fell short due to a lack of Super Delegates, public party support, radicalized views, and more. There are talks that Hillary Clinton and the DNC did fix votes in New York and California to help Clinton win the states with many Bernie voters angry and posting various pieces of evidence that this has indeed happened. Bernie Sanders was known for speaking against the establishment politicians that he claimed have ruined America, but now it seems he has been silenced by Clinton run party. Currently, Bernie has said that he will vote, and endorse, Hillary Clinton in the president election in order to stop Donald Trump, a common enemy they both have. However, his supports may be a different story. Many use the term “Bernie or Bust” to indicate that it’s Bernie Sanders or nobody in their minds, thus refusing to vote. Green Party and Libertarian Party nominees, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson, are attracting some of the Berners by claiming that the revolution will continue with them, claiming that only a third party president will be able to end the corrupted establishment that has seeded itself in Washington. There are even a few would rather vote for Donald Trump then Hillary Clinton despite their unending bashing of the man.

Hillary faces not just problems with her controversy issues, but also with trying to find favor with Bernie’s supporters who see her as no less evil then Donald Trump, and in some cases more so. Clinton is pulling out all the stops to make this dream of being the first woman president possible, and will resort to any tactic there is. Can we really trust this woman with poor records of foreign affairs, untrustworthy statements, and deep dark secrets as the leader of the most powerful free nation in the world? A nation under threat by constant Islamic terrorists, economic problems, racial tensions fueled by hate and fear, and social decline of morality and law?

The other option, one that some say is just as bad, worse, or slightly less bad, is Donald Trump. A billionaire who has been the center of attention more than once, Donald Trump is the most talked about candidate since the very start of the election. Be it with love or hate, Donald Trump has defied all odds and come out as the only remaining Republican Nominee, something some still cannot believe is possible; including members of the Republican Party. From the start, many people thought that Donald Trump’s run was a joke. A simple publicity stunt. The fact that he was unapologetic about insulting pretty much everyone from congress to immigrants to Gays, Blacks, Islam, Republicans, Democrats, Whites, Europeans, and pretty much anybody who argued with him made everyone just laugh and wait to see him kicked out. Soon enough, Donald Trump began to win states. Then he began to win even more. Nominees began to drop out. To me, it was when Donald Trump won Florida that I believe people thought, “Oh My God, this is real”. Real it was as Republicans, those who were “establishment”, began to try to work together to stop Donald Trump by putting their support for John Kasich or Ted Cruz. The two were soon dropping from the race shortly after Trump won Indiana by a landslide. Donald Trump, the loud mouth, egomaniac, brash, and brutality honest guy who nobody thought could win became the sole nominee before the election was even over. This became even more apparent after winning a whopping 14 million voters in California, helping set the record for the most recorded votes in the GOP history in one nominee election run. The people spoke, Donald Trump was their choice.

Like Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump has faced controversy a lot of times. The media, the internet, and various politicans all call him various words for his actions and speeches: Racist, Nazi, Fascist, Elitist, Homophobic, Monster, Destroyer, Bush 2.0, Regan 2.0, The Devil, Orange Head, Dumb, Idiot, and The End of America. Many minorities fear that Trump will create an America where if you aren’t rich, white, and straight, you are nothing and will be kicked out. I have heard Muslims, Blacks, Spanish, and Gays all worry about their future under Donald Trump. At the same time, I have heard Muslims, Blacks, Spanish, and Gays all praise him as well. People seem to think that all Donald Trump attracts is the uneducated, white, and working class citizens (as well as racist, homophobic, and anybody with a pillow sheet on their head). In truth, I have heard and met with people of various colors, religions, and even sexuality who support Trump and they are of all ages. Is it because they believe in his agenda for making “America Great Again”? Is it because they see no other candidate better? Or is it just a desire to see what would happen if America was run by Trump. Despite what the news, polls, or “expects” say, there is still a huge support for Donald Trump and he has just as much chance as winning this thing as Hillary does.

The “Anti-Trump” movement has tried to stop him, but they are too small of a number to win. In the end, while Donald may not have the party’s support, he does have the people who voted for him and they are the ones who ultimately have the power. Can we really let America be run by a man who not only has never been in a political office before and trust him to support an equal and free America despite the accusations of fascism and racism he displays? Especially in a time when racist and religious tensions are high, and violence seems to be the answer for everything?

Many people claim that the winner is already decided thanks to the polls. I would like to remind everyone that the polls predicted that Britain would remain in the EU and they were wrong. From what I have seen in my own observation, research, and asking of those on the streets, it seems that the race is more tied then we think. Yet, a lot of people agree that these two choices aren’t the best nor the most desired. It’s hard to not see why since both have dark shadows hanging over them that make them unpopular, and many fear the next four years with either candidate as President. America is stuck choosing the lesser of two evils, the problem is which one is the lesser of two evils?

Comments ( 61 )

This is why I don't vote, that and my dad thinks Trump is intentionally sabotaging his own campaign.

Can't use imgur, bruh.

I don't trust Hillary at all; she's as dishonest as she is old. Trump, whether we like him or not, may be what we need right now; someone who's not with the establishment, and really understands the little guys out there.

The answer is easy:

¡Supreme Court!

We have a 4:4 tie on the Supreme Court. Ginsburg is on her last legs. In 1 future, we have 6 Regressive Justices and 3 Progressive Justices where the Fair Deal, New Deal, Great Society, Civil Rights Act, and Voting Rights Act will be gone, or a future with 5 Progressive Justices and 4 Regressive Justices where the above are protected.

4098568

¡Yes! ¡Vote bigot!

I will vote Trump, because the Republican Party will impeach him if he goes to far out of line. He is the only candidate, from the major parties, who we will get out of power easier. If Clinton wins America will tear itself apart in a brutal and bloody civil war. Clinton is a lot like Palpatine from Star Wars and I see it as totally appropriate.

Seriously? Why even ask that question? I will take Trump any day of the week over Hillary, because I don't want a power-hungry, lying, conniving, sniveling murder who will lead the United States to its downfall. Trump can be kept in-check. But Hillary? She's the anti-Christ.

theirs only one hope for the USA right now if you don't want either of these two to win... let the UK take control over you again, this is why you shouldn't have declared independence.... bloody traitorous colonials... :twilightsmile:

PiMan #9 · Jul 18th, 2016 · · 7 ·

Hillary largely provides more of the same, which means America can plod through 4 years before picking a better candidate.
Trump provides the worst kind of change, which means that in 4 years pretty much the only guarantee is that the US will have a worse reputation and a worse economy than it does now. I'm not even willing to guarantee that the nation will still exist in its current form by then.

I can't even bring myself to care anymore. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. No matter what, they're both going to break something.

My suggestion? Stockpile booze and when they finally fuck up irrevocably, drown yourselves in it. I know that's what I'm going to do.

4098606

Everything you said you hate about Clinton applies to Trump too except murderer which applies to neither. By the way, if you wish us to take you seriously, do not accuse people of murder without evidence. You make yourself sound ridiculous.

Though I think we'd be slightly better off if Trump was elected, a tyrant is still a tyrant. And I cannot in good conscience vote for Trump.
We need to break the two party cycle, which has done nothing but seek it's own self-serving power for the past several decades. This mindset of "vote for the lesser of two evils" and "a vote for not Trump/Clinton is just a vote for Clinton/Trump" is pure bullshit. We need to draw the line here. My vote is for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. I don't care if he wins or not, it's a step in the right direction if a third party at least gets enough attention and, god willing, this country survives long enough for another election.

4098587
I'd argue that there's high probability it's going to tear itself apart anyways. People are fed up, we're witnessing cracks in the social order already. Something's got to give soon if stuff doesn't get fixed.

4098557
Amen.

I was in bed, with the light out when I scrolled past that "Witch" poster.


Thanks Obama Ponystar.

Bernie Sanders, while considered more popular than Clinton, was mainly supported by people who did not register, did not vote, or were given a provisional ballot. Also his promises are very similar to the one’s Obama made in 08 and just how many of those have been fulfilled?
Hillary Clinton, has been and still is demonized by Bernie supporters due to her habit of switching sides, but that just proves she knows how to play politics for her benefit.
Donald Trump, has proven capable for inspiring and connecting with large groups of people, but has a rather poor record of managing organizations that he has been in charge of.

Ultimately it comes down to three choices.
1. Voting for Hillary, who has a good chance of winning, and is likely to be more of the same.
2. Voting for Trump, who also has a good chance of winning, but will likely drive the country into the ground.
3. Voting for a third party with an unknown chance of winning and an equally unknown outcome.

I refuse to vote for either candidate, and will write Bernie Sanders' name on the ballot come November. I don't care if he can't get a single electoral vote if he doesn't offically register, at the least it'll send a message to the two party system that I reject their idea of "candidates"! America deserves better, and I cannot wait until 2020, so we can properly vote out the establishment and start working on fixing our broken government!

4098576 This is the same court that just recently voted 8-0 (as in all 8 justices agreed) to overturn the convinction of a Virginia governor accuased of and charged with taking bribes. And the very court that has in the past decade made mistake after mistake in the attempt to assert its authority. "Bush v.s. Gore" was a pointless political squabble that even O'Connor admitted the court should've stayed out of (and their logic for ending the recounts was sketchy. Yes, the recounts as Gore wanted them were wrong, but that didn't mean a recount wasn't necessarily needed), and we can't forget "Citizens United" which esentially gave big money a blank check to buy out the government at the expense of the average citizen. And although they rightfully ruled in favor of the LGBTQ community last year, they have failed to apply the lessons of "Brown v.s The Board of Education" and "Roe v.s. Wade" in that states will find ways to avoid applying laws they don't agree with if there's no deadline enforced. Right now, The Supreme Court is as broken as the rest of the government, and for better or for worse some of the judges who have allowed it to fall from grace will be out of office within a year and hopefully will lose their license to practice law, because their actions have contributed to the failed system we have before us.

I'm voting for Gary Johnson.

I'm either reluctantly going Clinton and hoping she gets impeached immediately (any VP pick she could make would be better than her), or I'll balls it and hope the rest of the nation is as pissed as I am and vote Jill Stein. Fuck today's conservatives, Democrats are turning on their own party's wishes so fuck them, I seriously don't understand libertarians (best I can guess is slightly more sensible anarchists), but I'll go for the green party easy. At least something gets done.

4098703

¡Grow up!:

You want to throw away the Supreme Court for generation, and throw away a century of hard-won progressive legislation because you did not get your preferred candidate. I have bad news for you:

¡Life is intrinsically unfair!

Politics is about getting the best possible in the real world —— ¡not the Platonic Ideal of a candidate! Even on MLP:FiM, unicorns do not fart rainbows.

4098726 The Supreme Court, like everything else in our government, is broken and can't be fixed with the current generation. We have to remove anyone who allows for this cycle of corruption to continue unchecked, and the candidates presented to us do not have the answers we need to solve the problems facing us. One is the face of the establishment, the other is the bastardization of the outsider movement that makes those of us with legtimate grievances against the government look bad. I wasn't a die hard Sanders supporter, but he is the only politican in this election cycle who seemed poised to clear out the corruption and get our government back on track. Yes, there's always going to be corruption in politics, but I refuse to accept this new norm. In this new norm, it's perfectly acceptable for a candidate to say and do whatever they want as long as it gets them elected, and then they can just tune out the voters and listen to random big money donors who just want the government to benefit them. Politicans are supposed to represent the will of the people who elected them, not the will of the people who will give them a nice paycheck bonus.

4098659 You want evidence? How about Benghazi?

As for liar? How about Monica Lewinsky?

Need I say more? Take me serious, my ass...

4098731

> "The Supreme Court, like everything else in our government, is broken and can't be fixed with the current generation."

Actually we can:

The Court has had 5 Regressives to 4 Progressives since the 1970s. The only reason we have not lost everything, is that every now and then, a Regressive votes conscious. We have the opportunity to have a Progressive Court for the 1st time since the 1960s. Imagine the decisions we can get:

The Court could decide that all School-Districts being equal but some Districts being more equal than others is unconstitutional and give Schools in poor communities equal funding to rich schools.

If we get a Regressive President and Ginsberg dies, we will have 6 Regressive Justices to 3 Progressive Justices. Kennedy defecting will not matter. We will loose every case. Even if Kennedy defects every time, we shall always loose 5 to 4. The Fair Deal, the New Deal, and the Great Society will be no more.

4098752 All 8 judges voted in favor of overturning the conviction of the governor, even though he was convincted of taking bribes (and in this day and age it seems to be hard to get politicans to be held accountable for anything they do wrong). It wasn't a split along party or ideaological lines, Republican and Democrat alike had no problems declaring that someone who takes bribes couldn't be convincted even if there was concrete evidence proving they did it. Hillary might put some progressives on the court (though I don't know if she can be trusted to do so unless Bernie and the progressives keep breathing down her neck about it), Trump will probably just pick whoever agrees with him though all of his suggestions have been more in line with what the GOP would want. Right now, I'd say the best thing that can happen, is for Bernie to keep jabbing at the Democrats and keeping the progressive wing of the party alive. Hillary NEEDS to be held to the promises she's no doubt hoping to weasel her way out of if she gets elected.

I'm going to spend my vote on the great leader that the people of America deserve most.

4098747

You say murder. Clinton murdered none. I did not challenge you on lying but pointed out that Trump does everything you dislike in Clinton. If you insist on lying, I shall go thither:

Trump lies more than all other candidates:

* Trump lies more often than not.
* Fact Checkers Prove That 91% of the Things Donald Trump Says Are False

4098763

¡Politics is about getting the best we can! ⸘How does you throwing away better because you can not get best make things better‽

You got two other parties to choose from, mate. Me, I'm going Green this election.

4098779 Because it sends a message to the system that I refuse to support their candidates and their tactics. Hillary got the nomination because of the super delegates and using the mainstream media to tout herself as the ONLY candidate of the Democratic party, which she used to scare off Sanders supporters because she knew she couldn't take him in a fair fight. Trump offers lots of ideas, but hasn't once explained how he's going to accomplish them, and his behavior has only proven he's unfit to be a leader, he reacts to everything by immediately lashing out and blaiming everyone but himself. Sanders isn't supported by big money like Hillary, and unlike Trump showcased dignity and rational behavior, only getting angry when the media started giving Hillary kid glove treatment during the debates.

Choosing not to vote for either of the two evils, means I don't have to be forced to select one just because they're my "choices" even if neither of them deserve the nomination.

4098769 Clinton silenced women that were raped by her husband, She released tons of secret email to other countries, she's being all chummy with Isis... At this point the only the Trump has going against him is that he's an Asshole. I'd rather have an Asshole, than have a Lying, flipflop that would say anything you want her to say for 5 bucks.

One is a nigh pathological liar, who gives just about zero shits about national security. The other is a self-obsessed, racist egomaniac whose own sense of importance, and stupidity, could cover the distance from Earth to the Moon and back.

There is no lesser of two evils. Even if I'm not a US citizen, this seems a case of two horrible choices, different types, but equal in terms of the havoc they would wreak upon the country.

4098769 :ajbemused: Dude, Hillary has a track record for cover-ups, conspiracy's, and scandals. And if you say that Benghazi is not proof enough that she is a murderer, then you don't know her well enough. Call me biased, but I speak truth. You're just attacking one man. Therefore, I now dub you a weak link.

Yeah um...Id rather not vote for either of these fucks. Theyd get us killed.

In this case, it seems to be the lessor of two weasels!

Doesn't matter at this point. I feel we're all going to lose no matter who becomes president.

4098788

After Trump will win, he will not care about the message you send. All you accomplished is making sure that even if Kennedy defects every time, 5/4ths of the court will vote to destroy everything good.

4098790

¡Bill Clinton went around raping women and Hillary Clinton covered it up! ¡You are batshitcrazy!

4098810

¿Did you forget to take your medications? I shall give you scandals because she fucked up on her eMail-Server, but conspiracies and coverups, no.

A battle of the Insane vs the Corrupt.
Or, in D&D terms, Chaotic Evil vs Lawful Evil.
Or, in historic terms, Jackson vs Adams 3: Harder Better Faster Deader.

You know what? This is great. All over the world a new reality show is about to be broadcast, it's so exciting! The Brexit, America having an election between a dumbass and a twat.
Britain, the country that used to own half the world.
And America the country that preached and still preaches freedom all the while being built by slavery on stolen lands.

4098703 No point with arguing with that guy. I was choosing between voting Jill Stein or still voting for Bernie Sanders, probably the latter. I think a Bernie Sanders presidency with Tom Harkin as VP looks better than anything Trump or Hillary can come up with in a million years.

I've met them both. Hill in the 90's for like five minutes and briefly Trump in 99. Of the two I prefered Trump. Hill came off as angry, slimy, and just plain unhappy while Trump shook my hand and asked me how I was doing and was generally a nice guy and all we were doing was passing in a hallway at his casino in AC.

This is a question concerning whether or not you'll vote for an honest asshole or a lying cunt. Either way ends up with the U.S. potentially in a shitty situation.

My take? I think Trump is the lesser of the two evils. For one, under him we won't have too much of a risk (SURPRISINGLY!) to go to war with Russia or China, which, today, are the U.S.'s biggest rivals in warfare. My mom thinks that if Trump became president we'd all go to nuclear war, but in reality, it seems that Russia and (most notably) Putin like the man.

Here's one source for it: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/vladimir-putin-just-made-a-massive-donald-trump-announcement/

Secondly, while he is an asshole, he's not actually half of what the media says he is. He has racist words, but by definition, he isn't quite racist. Admittedly, he is close, which is not something I like. But he isn't homophobic. Since early 2000, perhaps earlier, Trump has gone on record saying how he'd change the Civil Rights Amendment to include the LGBT under its administration.

Source: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trump-2016s-most-lgbt-friendly-republican
Quote: "As far back as 2000, Trump was advocating the idea of amending the 1964 Civil Rights Act to prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation – something the currently-pending Equality Act would basically do if lawmakers on Capitol Hill ever decided to pass it."

With Clinton, however, she has two faces regarding that issue. I think we all know the memes where past Clinton and present Clinton present their views on gay marriage. Past Clinton was against it, yet present Clinton is for it. This makes it seem like she really is doing all this only for power and popularity, saying what people want to hear.

Clinton also can't be trusted with federal information or anything that gives her power. Emails may seem tiny, but that is something no president nor presidential candidate should ever lie to the FBI about or pretend they don't exist. That's lying to the authorities: a crime in it of itself. If Clinton continued to lie, and they still found evidence for the emails, they'd have to indict her at the very least and revoke her candidacy at the most.

Honestly, the lesser of two evils really depends on whether you view the election objectively, and rule out the emotions of the country, or subjectively, and rule out the logic of the government.

I'm far too young to vote, but if I could, I wouldn't actually vote for either. I'd go third party with Gary Johnson.

Shoot both. Problem temporally solved.

I might have to go 3rd party if i vote at all. i will feel like garbage if i vote for either of these two.

4098626 Yea, I agree with this. Trump might not do as much damage as we fear, but it's like being told to set off a bomb manually between a hospital and an orphanage. It doesn't matter how many people say it's a dud if it's not things will be really bad. Personally I play a lot of MMO's and know why it's there but have never been fond of RNG. Hilary isn't a good choice, or even really the less evil, but she is without a doubt the safer one.

Gary Johnson is only good choice.

If I could vote for four more years of Obama I would but I can't.

4098535 If people don't vote, then they can't complain about whoever the president is.

4099923 So you'd vote for the guy whose worse than the two of them combined? How does that make sense?

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