Oh Spike, why you so Spike? [spoilers] · 4:44pm Jun 20th, 2015
Today's episode is such a nothing thing, I'm gonna talk about Slice of Life some more. My final, official stance on it, now that I've had a week or so for the butthurt to go away, is that it is a bad episode, but monumentally entertaining, and so it balances out. I love that Dr. Whooves has a solid character (really, it's equal parts insane and awesome), and Steven and Gummy were fantastic. My main complaints are not enough time being given to Cranky and Matilda's wedding (I really cared about it), and Octavia and Vinyl's stuff going on for too long. (I realize that sequence is the show's first non-vocal musical number. While not excusing it going on too long, it does at least explain it.) They definitely could have cut some of that, plus a few memes, to give us more plot resolution. (Gummy really does save the chase scene.)
Ultimately, I approach a lot of the anti-negativity criticism this way: My friend who I watch episodes with brought up The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra (more info here) when I mentioned the episode having been meant as a joke, as so many have said. The difference between them is that Cadavra is an homage to B-movies, meant for B-movie fans who go looking for bad, cheesy films to have fun with. MLPFiM, to me at least, is not bad or cheesy, and I don't come to it looking for idiocy; the two are not the same, in my mind. If that's all you ask for out of the show, well, fine, but I ask for a little more. Hopefully it doesn't happen again.
As for today? Man, do I really have to talk about this?
Rating: Meh.
Well, it's not like there wasn't anything to enjoy, and it was in some ways better than, say, Equestria Games. For instance, more Fancy Pants! (Even if my carefully crafted headcanon for him kinda died a little.) Plus, lots of impending waifu ponies (the mime, almost assuredly the Fargo pony Whinnyapolis is canon. Also, what's with that green pony with the bandana? I'm pretty sure she's a staff OC, but I dunno who.) "Bless me" was particularly funny. All four princesses, too!
(Plus, I now understand people who get excited about any one pony being "cute" in an episode. Twilight was totally pancake the whole time. :D)
I'm having difficulty coming up with the rest. This was a real nothing of an episode, every bit as forgettable as Bloom and Gloom, and I could feel it while I was watching. It's fun seeing Spike be a kid and take advantage of something like Twilight's position (though I wish more had been done with that once she found out), but we have to face that we're never going to get a good Spike episode, and it's debatable as to whether we ever have.
Also, when are we gonna get another song, I wonder? :O
The Cutie Map
Make New Friends but Keep Discord
Castle Sweet Castle
Appleloosa's Most Wanted
Tanks for the Memories
Slice of Life
Princess Spike
The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone
Bloom & Gloom
Our Town
I'll Fly
Hush Little Sister
Make This Castle a Home
I thought Dragon Quest was a good Spike episode, also Just for Sidekicks wasn't bad, it showed Spike being a greedy dragon rather than a clumsy fool that the writers always seem to go for.
The episode itself was kind of meh, at least it didn't feel like they overdid Spike's clumsiness as much as in Spike at Your Service.
Of note is that Twilight is a control freak that doesn't know how to delegate, the other Princesses don't bother themselves with the concerns of the mortal peasantry.
Fargo pony is best pony.
i.imgur.com/VXGbFmY.jpg
I can respect your final Slice of Life opinion. It's not a classic and doesn't stand up as its own episode, but yeah, it was a blast for us fans.
This episode, to me, in the first really bad episode of S5. It was so predictable and pathetic, and as usual with Spike episodes, had him acting like a stupid selfish dick. They could have made it work for him, like he tells the ponies the truth and how he's just trying to do Twilight's job so she can rest, and they respect that and leave, or Twi wakes up and finds out he made bad decisions, but forgives him for the same reason. But no, we need to have contrived disaster dominoes so everything is ruined because of him and he's humiliated in front of the nobility.
Why is it in normal episodes Spike is Twilight's competent and snarky right-hoof dragon, but then in his own episodes he's a pathetic moron?
I don't understand what you're talking about. This Fancy Pants episode was amazing. They just decided to focus on Spike for some reason.
But Fancy Pants? 10/10, mate.
I think it would actually kill someone if they wrote a decent Spike episode, so they keep writing terrible ones to keep everyone on staff alive. That's all I can come up with. There were funny bits I suppose, but definitely my least favorite episode of the season so far.
Spike needs a character beyond "kind of greedy and has self-esteem issues." As it is, most of his episodes have to focus on that. He doesn't have any long term goals that we're aware of or can infer, the only interests we know of are Rarity, comic books, and eating. This is what we're going to get for Spike until the writers decide who he actually is other than "Twilight's assistant who isn't sure he deserves stuff."
Man, Lost Skeleton of Cadavra is the best. Probably the most successful attempt ever at making something intentionally so-bad-it's-good.
Yeah, they really front-loaded the songs this season, didn't they?
In any case, there were enjoyable bits. I especially liked the Da Vinci pony, complete with Pona Lisa cutie mark. Still, the writers just don't seem to know what to do with Spike when he's in the spotlight. Definitely my least favorite episode of the season thus far.
With the "heart in a balloon" cutie mark? That's Katie Cook's OC. The blue stallion with the "pencil with bat wings" cutie mark is Andy Price's OC.
3165976
I liked Dragon Quest, though I know the fandom is pretty sour on that episode for whatever reason. Let's not forget Secret of My Excess (which ironically had very little actual Spike in it).
3166116
Not even, though! We've only gotten four (ish), and there's supposed to be at least twelve, I think.
3166328
Oh man, I thought so! :D I didn't actually notice Andy pony, guess I'll have to keep an eye out on the rewatch!
"It was a bad story, and I loved it."
3166480 I am pretty sure that they mentioned there is another musical episode coming.
For me, the best part of the Spike episode was the cultural references. As a native of Wisconsin myself, I spent a good portion of my life living in Minnesota (where people don't actually talk in a Norwegian accent incidentally). So, seeing all the new named locales invented was rather nice. It also was interesting to see that Celestia's "kingdom" actually has a parliament of sorts that she gathers on occasion.
The rest of the episode was pure tripe, sadly. It was a classic idiot plot. Seriously. It's like Spike seeks out liability problems! He could have simply told the truth when confronted by people asking to talk to Twilight.
"Twilight has been awake for three days straight, and Princess Cadence asked me to make sure that Twilight would not be disturbed for the next few hours."
Roll credits.
I also thought it was inconsistent how all the ponies in the show made a huge deal over petty things and then proceeded to forgive and forget the instant Spike said he was sorry. Wha!?
I know we've got a 20 minute time constraint, but please don't try to cram more into a show than you have time to do with quality, eh? We know the writers are capable of cramming ridiculous amounts of dynamic plot into 20 minutes. Look at Magical Mystery Cure. I still can hardly believe that that was not a two-parter. I swear, the writers were on strike for this one. It's the first episode in a long time where I honestly felt like this was "a show for little girls".
3166556
That would explain things. :B
3166932
And yet people love Lesson Zero. :V
I'm fully willing to believe that ponies are very forgiving creatures by nature. It's almost part of their culture.
3166328
That has been bugging me since the episode aired. Thank you! I knew they looked familiar.
Too tired to type thoughts. Linking thoughts instead. Answer here or there, doesn't matter.
For all that there were problems here, and some uncomfortably awkward points, I thought that this was relatively good for a Spike episode. I especially thought it was nice that it seems like many of his decisions may have worked out fine, even if the results weren't shown onscreen except with Fancy Pants. What's a little odd to me is that when you look at it, the calls that really messed everything up were those that were specifically intended to do what he'd been assigned to. Cadence even called him out on turning it into an opportunity for self-aggrandizement and -indulgence, but that wasn't what caused the disasters everyone was unhappy with at all. And yes, I don't get why Spike didn't just say what was going on, or why he was trying to get out the window, especially when it had seemed for a moment like he was trying to get the truth out to keep them from disturbing Twilight before they got to her chambers. Would have been nice if they'd stuck with that.
On the plus side, I thought that the friendship lesson was well delivered and a better capstone than that of "Slice of Life."
Also, more Fancy Pants. And he's still pretty great.
3166489
There is such a thing as 'so bad it's good'. In movies, I'd go with Big Trouble In Little China, or The Last Dragon as great examples. Neither is in any way a good movie, but they're so cheesy that they work out to be incredibly entertaining almost despite themselves.
This is entirely the fault of the show's writers and staff, then. They have been handed a dragon—a freakin' dragon—the pinnacle of mythological creatures, and the best that they can come up with is Variations on Owl's Well That Ends Well #6? Spike's character is a gold mine, and the fact that I've climbed to 3,000+ Watchers writing mostly about the boy speaks volumes to what they could accomplish if they cared to do anything with him other than what they seem to demand to keep doing over and over again. Let him succeed by his virtues at least once, rather than continually being damned by his oft-recalled vices, dammit!
3167476
I did notice that, and it's odd.
3166028
I personally have never accepted the convention that "Children are Useless to Writers." There is a wealth of possibilities laying in this child, as there is in all children, but for some reason we're not allowed to see him experience any growth or make positive contributions. It's not that Spike has no other traits—he's talented musically (piano, pan flute, drum,) is sociable and fun-loving, and he's loyal to a fault. Any of these virtues could be the launching point for any number of tremendous episodes, not even to mention any that could spring from him not knowing his own origin, his place as an outsider in pony society, and his feelings about Twilight (the closest thing he has to family.)
In the end, the only reason there has not been a great Spike episode is because the show has committed itself to a formulaic approach to his epiodes. I understand what you are saying and I agree with it/you are correct to an extent, but Spike is a great little guy. He does not need to change to be worthy of appreciation—the writers simply need to write him an episode where his positives are utilized rather than continuing to write episodes where a ten-year-old is browbeaten for his single greatest vice.
3167827
Yeah, and it's not even like they couldn't get an Aesop out of the story they told; they just decided to go with another one that wasn't.
3167934
It's always been a wonderful consolation for me that regardless of the episodes focused on him, there will so often be glimpses of the character he could be and should be written as in episodes centered on the rest of the cast.
3167630
I am intimately familiar with that concept, but that was not this episode.
This episode (I'm referring to Slice of Life) was hilarious and fun. The only reason it is considered "bad" by anypony is because bronies are acting like hipsters.
3168222
Agreed. There's a wonderful little boy in there, hidden behind his adult responsibilities and his anxieties. Seeing flashes of that boy is what drew me to his character in the first place, and I'm glad you see it, too.
3168459
Good job with you attempt to belittle and marginalize anyone who didn't enjoy the episode there. It will certainly win you points somewhere. :)
Snark aside, there are a whole rainbow of opinions on episodes. I may not agree with all of them, but I can't really argue with anyone's right to have them.
I found myself asking these questions after seeing the episode.
"Why can't the public works pony go ahead and shut off the water line? He already sees where it's leaking and shutting off the waterline shouldn't cause much disturbance."
"Why does the episode think Spike is in the wrong for taking care of Twilight's duties when he is her assistant/ secretary? Wouldn't he already have the authority to make decisions in her stead if she is indisposed?"
"Why is it that the only things that went wrong were the things he acted in Twilight's behalf instead of the things he did selfishly?"
"Why can't Spike shut the window?"
If I find myself asking these questions that is not a good sign of the episode's plot.
3169998
I agree.
I never meant to imply "ponies don't have the right to have an opinion". Odd though it may sound, I don't think that ponies should forcibly have their opinions altered by the use of mind-control devices.
Now for the serious answer. I actually did not mean to imply that everypony who didn't like Slice of Life had the same reason for it, or that their reasons aren't valid. I wrote poorly, and for that, I apologize. I was referring to the tremendous outpouring of hype against Slice of Life by famous artists, writers, reviewers, and "purists" in the fandom who want to cut down a shout-out to the fandom; and specifically that the hype was strong enough Present Perfect felt obligated to inform us it was a bad episode even though he enjoyed it. If I enjoy an episode, I think it's a good episode. Saying "okay okay it's bad even though I like it" strikes me as an attempt to appease your social standing with other fans by undercutting your own opinion.
The smiley face was particularly classy. Thanks for making me feel like shit today.
3170753
God, this episode is just dumb. D:
3171192
Care to explore just how dumb it is?
3170913
I don't think the hype had anything to do with PP's opinion. He's pretty secure in his own self about it.
That said, I kind of felt the opposite. I didn't enjoy it, save for the few seconds of Gummy being Best Gator, and if that means I'm a bad fan, so be it. I hate being pandered to in the first place.
3171317
That's okay. :B
3166028
The real problem is, we've seen all sorts of interesting stuff out of him... as Twilight's assistant. He works well in the supporting cast when he gets to be snarky. He has had plenty of good character moments.
They're just never in episodes focusing on him.
Actually, that's not entirely fair; the start of Secret of My Excess is pretty good, and I think there's a lot they could do with Spike. The problem, I think, is in part that they're afraid of stepping on the toes of the CMC, who also struggle with their place in the world, especially Apple Bloom. Spike dealing with Apple Bloom is fertile ground, but Just For Sidekicks mostly was just Spike taking advantage of the CMC, rather than actually interacting with them with people.
3167756
Unfortunately, a lot of people who like Spike fundamentally do so because he is a boy and therefore represents them, rather than because of any actual intrinsically good things about the character.
Spike is a potentially interesting character, and has been used to great effect as a sidekick, but he's been consistently awful when the show focuses on him because they isolate him and don't have him do buddy stuff. The show is at its best when characters get witty dialogue that shows off their character, and Spike's episodes consistently manage to isolate him from anyone who could interact with him. Indeed, almost every Spike episode has him being off on his own.
That's why they're all bad - Spike needs other characters to bounce off of to be interesting in the context of the show.
So many people get upset when people point out that Sparity is never going to happen because Rarity isn't a pedophile, and get upset at the idea that Rarity wouldn't reciprocate. There's so much Nice Guy Syndrome that goes on with him.
Hey, to be fair:
Dragon Quest was amazing and feelsy, and one of the last truly classic episodes (I get a nostalgia attack just thinking about it), and The Secret Of My Excess was also feelsy as fuck and one of the cornerstones of the beautiful and nearly flawless season 2.
If I ever have to direct people to absolutely amazing episodes of the show, it'd be those two. And they're both Spike episodes.
However, this one was terrible. Took me three days to finish (and I STILL have three minutes left.)
3173273
Yeah, I like both of those, despite the overwhelming Sparity in Excess.
3173159
That makes me very uncomfortable. My concern for Spike stems from him being a child, as I've said many times before. If he were a little girl and the mane cast were stallions, or even if "Barb" was treated the same way as Spike is now in the series with the principal cast still being female, I know I would still feel the same way about how the child is treated. My interest in Spike's character arc comes from him being a kid, not from him being male. The opportunity to explore male roles for him is just a garnish.
Agreed.
3173873
I wasn't saying that was the case for you; I was making a comment on the fandom. I know why you are interested in Spike; I've read your blogs (and your stories). Sorry for the confusion.
3173797 I feel like Excess was the DEATH of Sparity, and it should have never been brought up afterwards. I don't know why people keep beating a dead horse.
3174308
Because they're FUCKING STUPID and want a grown woman to fuck a kid. You can't reason with people like that.
3174239
Oh, I certainly didn't think it was directed at me personally, T.D., I was just trying to illustrate why that particular line of thinking about Spike fans in general strikes an ill chord with me. I wasn't accusing you of making a generalization by any means, and I understand what you are saying. I hope that explains that.
3174378 b-but it's okay if it's a woman doing the molestation! Can you ever CONSIDER it to be such? I'd be pretty stoked if I were Spike, getting hit on by an older woman.
oh you do a thing like iah does too? k well i'll share this comment here too then....
here's a comment someone made i thought you'd like
yeah , this episode has a lot of core structural problems to say the least , something i thought of canonly this episode should have never happened in the first place , twilight would never miss scheduled 2 events to happen at the same time.....
3175737
Damn, I hadn't realized it, but that person is absolutely right. I might have to kick this one down a notch on my list. :|
3177330 down? don't you mean up?....
3178516
No. Putting Spike in a lose-lose situation is a shitty thing to do.
3178953 yeah , doesn't that make you want to address it sooner not later?....
3174487 what this guy said , what young male doesn't want to have an older female get romantically involved with him?....
3179103 [sarcasm]
3179746 i wasn't being sarcastic :l ....
3180124 I knew you weren't, so I was clarifying.
3180180 well now im just lost....
3182041 lost in the world?