That One Ship... · 11:51am Oct 6th, 2014
We all have that one ship, don't we? The one that we just inherently don't like, or we think would never work. Well, I have mine...
Hate is too strong a word but this image made me smile so whatever.
I've discussed this ship with a few people before, perhaps too strongly or offensively, so I thought I may as well jot down my thoughts on it in blog form and I can bring it up if the discussion ever rears its head again.
First, the disclaimer. It's not like I think CheesePie should never be written ever. That's stupid. It'll have its fans and that's cool. I just don't like it for my own reasons. They are mine and you cannot steal them. But we can share if you'd like.
So please just make like the following comic if you disagree. Don't start raging or nothing.
Honestly, this isn't meant to be patronizing. Sometimes the best thing to do is simply say 'okay'.
Regardless, to begin, we gotta take a look at my thoughts on other Pinkie ships.
Pinkie ships are a rollercoaster of emotions and can have great variety, much like Ponka herself. They can be really cute, thanks to how Pinkie is so loving, or they can be dramatic, with Pinkie struggling to deal with the more serious aspects of a relationship. For a simple example, take RariPie, where Pinkie can't understand why Rarity meet her deadlines super quickly and have more time to be with her.
The ponies in a Pinkie ship really have to work for it. Being romantically linked to Pinkie sounds kinda nice on paper; she'll always love you no matter what and will always have time for you! But in reality, relationships don't work like that. Sometimes couples need a break from each other. Heck, even Pinkie could be the one suggesting that and would have trouble figuring out how to tell her partner (either Fluttershy or Twilight because I figure they're the only ones that would have this issue).
With CheesePie, I don't really see that. The problem is that they're too perfect for each other. To generate conflict, you'd likely have to throw a spanner in the works, or have some third wheel. Why? Because their conflict got resolved in the episode Cheese appeared in. They were totally in sync with each other by the end of it and nothing to me suggested anything otherwise. Cheese is the only pony in the world Pinkie is totally in tune with. (Maud excepted since they're close sisters.) It's not like Twilight, who struggles to comprehend Pinkie's antics and isn't very outgoing, or Rainbow Dash, who likes to have fun but also wants to be seen as cool and awesome.
The other side of the coin is that if you simply want a cute, fluffy fic, then CheesePie is probably perfect for that. But for anything else, I would likely look elsewhere.
In my opinion, Pinkie needs somepony to ground her if she really wants to be her best. Somepony that can remind her of her priorities and what's important. Sometimes she does get carried away. You'd only have to look at her reaction to Rainbow Dash's dismay of the competition in Pinkie Pride to see that...
Also Filli Vanili even if she was written super badly there!
Who's gonna ground her in CheesePie? Gummy? I doubt they'd listen to their friends because, hey, they're not in their relationship. What would they know?
But, as much as I dislike CheesePie, I do really like bro-tier CheesePie.
What I mean by that is that Cheese and Pinkie are super best friends, linked on a level that the Mane 6 can't achieve (except maaaaaybe Rainbow Dash to some extent). They know each other the best and what makes them tick. But they're not romantically involved, so they never need to worry about that stuff. As a result, they can always come to each other's aid in times of stress because there's no romantic baggage to worry about.
Also, a minor point: Pinkie works best as a solo thing. As in, when there's more than one crazy character around, the effect of her antics is diminished.
Agree? Disagree? Whatever, man. I'm just gonna play more Smash Bros on my 3DS.
-JaketheGinger
P.S.
Expand Kong.
I actually hate Cheese in general. Al's performance was lackluster. Not to mention being a whiny bitch because they threw a script at him instead of letting him do his own thing.
PonkaDash practically writes itself. Watch any interaction between them.
Especially Wonderbolts Academy, when she literally threw herself into RD's (arms? forelegs? same difference) and stayed awake waiting forever on a letter.
I actually liked Ponka taking the piss out of yellowsoft...
I don't have one ship. I hate several. Anyone but Cherilee with Mac, Spikity (I'm a member of the Spikibelle clan), and fucking Brad Coolguy x literally anyone.
2510967
Huh. Didn't know if he was actually whining about the whole thing. Doesn't surprise me though considering some stars can be like that.
Well it is best pony vs. worst pony.
I actually find the idea of Flash being this huge waifu stealer kinda amusing, honestly. But that's all he'll ever be.
2510988
The extended Make A Wish featuring him is better because he was allowed to do what he wanted and stopped QQing.
Now I want to write / see written a story about Flash literally collecting waifus.
2510988
I wouldn't hate him if he was more than "This is Brad. He is cool. You know this because he has cool hair and plays guitar and drives a cool car. Twilight wants his dick for some sudden inexplicable reason."
One ship that I don't like?
Red and black alicorn OCXmane 6 (and possibly Luna and Celestia) harem. I just don't want to read that.
Also I don't like mane 6 ships much, mostly because they make them OOC, and majority of them are really poorly written.
You raise a valid point, and I guess what it boils down to is the reader and what kind of relationship they want to read about. You're right; Pinkie and Cheese are, in quite a number of ways, perfect for one another. The backstory, the mannerisms, passion, and even their look. There's more to it than that, but when you look at the pair, some might get one feeling:
This couple would last forever. And you know what? Yeah, I can kind of see it. Sure they'll argue and whatnot many times, but I wouldn't see them getting divorced. And I guess, to that extent, reading CheesePie is more about seeing those two similar things intertwine. There's been some drama in some CheesePie fics that I've read, but most of the time it's all sunshine and happiness. And I suppose that's really aimed for the CheesePie fans, or fans of happy relationships. It's a bit incomplete in some areas, but can stand on its own merits.
Again, I guess it's how far you want things to go. Like you said, Rarity can have her dress issues, or perhaps one of Pinkie's harem gets too close for comfort. There's, in a way, more to expand upon with certain character. With Cheese, it doesn't seem as diverse. There's creativity, and I've seen it, but even I think it's a bit limited compared to some other ships, if only because of his single episode.
Having just written a PinkieDash fic, I can further the point (and the ship is growing and growing inside me now). I've seen plenty of fics where all sorts of things happen, and it's been a great ride for each and every one of them. I think there's been a bit more variety when it's come to the blue and pink horse than with Weird Al pony, is what I'm saying. I'm a fan of most ships, and I'm generally open to many pairings, which also includes CheesePie. I'm certainly not going to try and change your mind by convicing you that your head is wrong and CheesePie is the way to go or anything, because we're all adults and entitled to our own opinions and ships. TwiPie still remains my top, and probably will forever, but I know others don't see the pair happening. Of course, I can see points, just like with you and CheesePie, but I'm a little indifferent. If the ship isn't for you, it's not for you.
I guess in the end it's really mainly down to an author and how creative they can take the pairing. I can easily suggest The Rock Farmer's Daughters as a fantastic CheesePIe for using grumpy Pinkamena at the rock farm and a hobo Cheese Sandwich. No party ponies. Whether it's for you or if you've seen it already though, I wouldn't know.
But now you've got me thinking.
I wish I had Smash Bros.Also as far as PinkieXCheese fics go, don't put 3rd wheel in. Go for Bony and Clyde type of stuff, them causing trouble together.
In my opinion 2 people that love each other doing stuff together is better romance, than 2 people dating, and having relationship difficulties.
You just gotta write from different angle.
I rather read story about them replacing Twilights books with cheese rolls,and then getting caught making out in closet, than Cheese cheating on pinkie with twilight, for no good reason or something.
swag and a half
I have serious problems from a realistic POV with the whole concept of "too perfect for each other." This is especially the case when one's normal problem is that nobody else could possibly understand oneself. Generally speaking, characters do not seek out "interesting" loves, they seek out happy loves. They want to be happy, not entertained by "interesting" fights with the beloved. Fights with the beloved is something one puts up with because one loves them, not something one seeks out intentionally, unless one is a very strangely combative person.
2510972
What's wrong with Mac and Cheerilee?
All my this. Enjoying it?
I agree CheesePie tends to be a good fluffy ship, though I admit Scoots2 has forever captured my heart with it. They also bring up the good point of the conflict can easily be the fact that Cheese travels so much but Pinkie is very much tied to Ponyville.
Okay.
*drops mic and walks away*
Nah. Cheesepie is a lame ship. It's basically selfcest with a far uglier version of Stallion Pinkie.
2510995
Think most people would agree with you there. Except Twifags.
2511000
PinkieDash is pretty much perfect ship story material. Rainbow and Pinkie gel so well together (and it shows in the episodes; in fact, I often suspect one of the people on the DHX team ships them, since Pinkie has given Rainbow so many wanting looks throughout the show...) yet at the same time, their differing and interesting personalities can allow for a lot of potential intrigue, drama, conflict... whatever you want.
2511055
I disagree. There's a big difference settling down with someone because it's easy and settling down with someone because you find them an interesting person.
Love is about overcoming hardships since love is just that strong.
2511110
Pac-man is now my new main. And it's reminded just how insane Diddy Kong is.
ALSO DOCTOR MARIO RETURNS TO GIVE THE DAILY DOSE.
2511140
LUMINARY BRINGS THE EDGE.
I can see them being friends with benefits.
2511256
Yeah, reckon I can see that too.
In before you write some clopfic about it involving lots of whipped cream.
2511296
Plz, Jake, I would NEVER sink to that level, and frankly I am shocked that you would think I would. Obviously it would involve lots of chocolate sauce. Duh!
2511214
There is a difference between loving someone because they are an interesting person, and loving someone because loving them will be interesting. In the first case, the person shares your interests and can introduce you to new interesting things. In the second case, you are seeking a beloved with whom you know you will have much conflict.
The first is wholesome and sane -- you're seeking out someone who shares your sense of life and with whom you can enjoy common interests. The second is (socially) sadomasochistic and insane -- you're seeking out someone who does NOT share your sense of life and with whom you can suffer bitter and emotionally-hurtful fights.
There are, sadly, people who do exactly this. They seek out lovers who will abuse and harm them, or whom they will abuse and harm. People like this are to be avoided like the plague; they are never happy, they don't like to be happy, and they joy in making others unhappy.
No member of the Mane Six is like this. This is implicit in the job description -- somepony who was like this would be so disharmonious that she could never attune with an Element of Harmony.
Trixie is a little like this, which is why she is too flawed to attune with an Element. Much of the growing which my Trixie has to do to eventually become Illusion involves learning how to experience sane love and friendship.
In canon, this is almost explicitly Sunset Shimmer's character arc.
You are confusing audience appeal with in-universe logic. From an audience appeal point of view, of course it's a lot of fun to watch the couple with problems fight with each other. But in-universe, it's much less fun for the couple. And each of the individuals making up that couple falls in love -- or out of love -- based on his or her perceived happiness (and maybe the happiness of the beloved as well), not on how well he or she believes an audience will enjoy watching them.
The "hardships" should be mostly external to the couple. If the "hardships" are mostly internal -- if they are mostly generated by the dynamic of their own relationship -- then there is something wrong with their love.
And no one who is at all serious about love is going to reject someone because the course of their love would be too easy. Characters must act under internal motivation, or they come across as phony and their choices contrived.
2511214
Love is something that can happen between any two ponies, no matter how different or similar.
2511055 is right, one doesn't normally seek out love with someone who's very different-- look at Rarity's chosen crushes, or think about the girl you'd like to find someday: is she a straight laced business student who hates cartoons and video games?
Now, obviously, as in the case of Rarity, that doesn't always pan out. But that kind of partnership is what a character will want.
Love does sometimes have other ideas, but Jordan's point is that when that happens it's frustrating and emotionally difficult. Fights in a relationship are hard and painful, if a relationship is serious, it's literally your life as you've envisioned it that's on the line. and it's hard enough making someone understand you when you have a lot in common. It's not something the character would want, even if the author decides it's a better story.
Anyway, the more I think about CheesePie, the more it reminds me of AppleDash (and trust me, I know AppleDash.) They have a lot in common, including a way of seeing the world, and as Jordan pointed out that's an amazing and magical thing for Pinkie-- she would almost need someone very much like her to have any chance of that with another pony. But they're also competitive, though thanks to an episode we know they won't take that too far. But I think that like AJ and Dash, Pinkie and Cheese would enjoy a continued competition with lower stakes to keep them on top of their games-- coming up with new balloon animals or party machines to impress the other. And also like AJ and Dash, they have a core difference in how they see the world: Cheese basically wants to be the Wonderbolts of party planning, while Pinkie is arguably as attached to Ponyville as Applejack is to Sweet Apple Acres.
It also, and this is important to me, lets Pinkie retain the part of herself that's weird and wild and random, but with a child-like innocence. To me, that's a part of Pinkie's role in the world, and it's something that almost every other character finds frustrating and would need toned down. The only exception to that (and my favorite mane six Pinkie ship) is Fluttershy; they might have problems for other reasons, but she's very zen about Pinkie being Pinkie, and shares that innocence (FlutterPie reminds me of Tom Bombadil and Goldberry from Lord of the Rings.)
Anyway, CheesePie is probably not a ship I'm ever going to write directly, but it's something I wouldn't hesitate to make a background ship, especially when I'm trying to fill out romantic interests without pairing all of the mane six together.
2511487
Yes. Though it's more likely between similar ponies, because ponies are aware of the points you then mention, and ponies are much more likely to ACT on it if they believe that they are well-suited to one another. This is because they want to avoid heartbreak.
This is of course most the case if they've been burned before, especially if they've made the mistake of falling for somepony unsuitable before. They are less likely to repeat the same mistake -- unless they have some psychological problem that makes them court emotional pain (a surprising number of Humans do, and I don't see why at least some Ponies wouldn't).
I speak from experience here. My first fiancee was exactly like that. She was a really good and lovable person, and I feel guilty for courting her when our interests were so incompatible -- I know I caused her emotional pain. In my defense, it was the first time I was ever seriously in love.
This gets into the difference between internal and external character motivation. Consider the couple in War of the Roses, who start out passionately loving one another and wind up passionately hating one another, to the point that they wind up KILLING each other, semi-on-purpose, because they can't even work out their DIVORCE.
Great dark comedy, but would you want to live it? Even if they had survived?
2511379
The former is what I meant, not the latter. Don't get me wrong, when I ship, I always make sure the characters in question have something to bond over.
2511487
Agreed. But that isn't necessarily something that will be interesting to any and every reader.
It's more realistic though. Have you ever seen a perfect relationship in real life? Where the couple were almost exactly the same in every aspect like CheesePie is?
That's pretty harsh, isn't it? I'll go back to this.
Aye, but I think they're so in sync that they can easily work it out. Cheese would feel like he finally belongs somewhere, and Pinkie would probably totally be down for some epic party tour across Equestria for a month or two.
See, this is a trap a lot of writers fall into. They just assume Pinkie is some force of nature that can never have moments of quiet. But that isn't the case. She's just as much of a character as the rest of the Mane 6 are. That's exactly what Faust intended when she developed them. If that wasn't the case, then you wouldn't get episodes like Party of One, or Too Many Pinkies. They're more crazy episodes, yes, but Pinkie still goes through a variety of different emotional states.
Pinkie can read ponies as well as any other, if not better at times. Why do you think she never pranks Fluttershy? That suggests a deeper level of understanding for others than may appear at first glance.
Would she be high maintenance in a relationship? Probably. But that doesn't mean she's an idiot who ignores how her partner's feeling.
And let us not forget: she lives for fun. Fun isn't always loud. There are small moments that suggest this (Pinkie randomly rolling in the grass by herself, for example).
2511256
CHEESE SANDWICH: Pinkie, I love you. Will you be my special somepony?
PINKIE PIE: Naah! We're too much alike!
CHESE SANDWICH (confused): Uh, that's part of why I love you -- we're kindred spirits and ...
PINKIE PIE: Yeah, that's the problem! We wouldn't fight enough. Just hug and kiss and cuddle and throw lots of super duper fun parties!
CHEESE SANDWICH: I see absolutely no problem with that ...
PINKIE PIE: Not for us, silly. For the Shadows Who Watch! (points at the reader)
CHEESE SANDWICH: Eh? Oh! They want us to fight with people?
PINKIE PIE (mock-happy, there's some bitterness showing underneath): Yeppers! Because it makes a better story.
CHEESE SANDWICH (frowning): Oh. I see. I'm sorry Pinkie -- I think we would have been really happy together.
PINKIE PIE (now obviously sad, mane hanging straight): Yeah. Me too. Instead they'll prolly write me into a clopfic with somepony I don't even love and I'll have to pretend to like it because, upvotes.
CHEESE SANDWICH: That really sucks, Pinkie. You're ... you're wonderful. My muse. My inspiration. You shouldn't have to do that.
PINKIE PIE (lightbulb appearing behind her head, mane fluffing back out): We can still be friends!
CHEESE SANDWICH (still unhappy): Well, yeah -- it wasn't like I was going to stop knowing you, even if I can't ...
PINKIE PIE: With benefits!
CHEESE SANDWICH: Eh? Ohhh. He gets it.
PINKIE PIE: Yeah, we can hug and kiss and cuddle and throw really great parties only we'll say we aren't very special someponies.
CHEESE SANDWICH (confused): Wait, won't we still be happy?
PINKIE PIE: Well, mostly. See, because we aren't very special someponies, we can see other Ponies!
CHEESE SANDWICH: But I don't really want to ...
PINKIE PIE (looks at the audience, then at CHEESE): Ssshhh!!! You're always on the road, going from town to town, meeting all these floozies and I'm just dying on the inside with jealousy knowing that you're sleeping with somepony else and -- angst, reader interest!
CHEESE SANDWICH: Oh, yeah. And you're friends with everypony in Ponyville and they probably all really want you and I know you can't contain yourself on those long winter nights ... Grrr! I'm so enraged! (snarls and snorts very unconvincingly)
PINKIE PIE: Yep! So we're like loving each other and hating each other and there's lots and lots of room for conflict to keep things interesting!
CHEESE SANDWICH: Hmm. But wouldn't it be interesting if we just faced the problems of life together, as a couple?
PINKIE PIE: I wish. But most of our target audience live really soft lives with lots and lots of bits handed them by their mommies and never have to work hard to bake or plan parties ...
CHEESE SANDWICH: ... or go from town to town sometimes in country with storms and bandits or monsters ...
PINKIE PIE: ... so they figure that if we aren't fighting each other our lives would just be super duper easy.
(They tenderly KISS
CHEESE SANDWICH: Best friends with benefits, then?
PINKIE PIE (with total bedroom eyes): Absolute bestest best friends with super best benefits, okey-dokey-lokey!
(We draw a curtain over the rest of the scene. Even party ponies need their privacy at times)
2511659
Heck, I'd read that. (Although not the biggest fan of fourth wall breaking)
Is it wrong to say I don't like lesbian shipping? Not because I believe lesbainism is wrong or whatever, I just... it just doesn't appeal to me.
2511590
The answer to the first question is no, the answer to the second is yes. That's because you give far too much credit to their similarities making them "perfect."
Even if it was Pinkie dating Pinkie, when people are very similar their flaws are doubled as well. Imagine Pinkie 1 getting so wrapped up in planning a party she forgot to let Pinkie 2 know she wouldn't be home that night, sending Pinkie 2 into a Party of One type spiral, which Pinkie 1 then feels so bad about that she starts to question if Pinkie 2 deserves a better special somepony... and that's if they were exact clones. Being very similar to someone doesn't mean you share the same knowledge or emotions, it just means you understand what those emotions feel like when you see them.
You sound like the AppleDash shippers who really annoy me because they paint the ship as being perfect (DbzOrDie does that to me sometimes). That sort of thing can be worked out, yes, but it's not easy to work out. Why would Cheese feel like he belongs? Does he even want to feel like he belongs? His goal seems to be to travel Equestria and bring the party, why is that something about himself that he wants to change? For love? I think we know how I feel about that sort of thing...
And I can totally see Pinkie taking a Party Planning Vacation, but eventually she's going to want to be back in Ponyville... probably more often than not. As with AppleDash, I'm sure they could reach some sort of compromise, even if it meant they missed each other sometimes, but it's a pretty major conflict.
That's not what I said at all, including your follow up statements. And both of those episodes are perfect examples of what I was saying-- even while facing difficult things, her reactions betray a certain skewed, childlike, black and white view of the world: either everypony loves Pinkie, or nopony loves Pinkie. There's no room for a calm, rational response to a problem, because a pony capable of a calm, rational response would probably also be capable of a clam, rational response to evilly possessed trees, which would not be laughter, or to finding out that she was distantly related to one of her friends, which would not be having an awesome time on the roadtrip from hell. Pinkie is capable of any emotion, and she's frequently wise and usually correct, but she's rarely logical. This song perfectly sums up my view of Pinkie Pie.
Her type of character is an archetype, the fool (or the wise fool, depending on the episode.) That doesn't make her static, but it does mean that she's going to follow certain tropes. Removing her from those tropes, to me, make her less special.
As something to compare it to, Applejack is another kind of archetype-- the simple farmer. Every now and then people want to write stories where Applejack leaves the farm, or among AppleDash shippers there are a number who love the idea of her getting wings. Or sometimes people write stories about all of the mane six becoming alicorns. I hate those kinds of ideas, because Applejack's character is more than just a character, it's tied into this idea. It's right that she's an earth pony, and it's right that she's dedicated to the farm. You can play with the trope, and twist it, but losing it would be sad. It makes her part of a timeless tradition, rather than just another character.
Pinkie's character is tied into her randomness, her wildly different view point, and her wisdom wrapped up in seeming naivete. If Faust didn't know that when she made the character, she must have skipped her Joseph Campbell in story telling class. Part of the point of her existance as that archetype is that the characters often don't understand her, and that's good. Authors can do whatever they want when writing Pinkie, but I think losing that older, deeper archetype diminishes the character from something special and timeless to just another very happy pony.
Well, to paraphrase an old theatrical saying: there are no boring ships, just boring authors. And I don't take any issue with your dislike of CheesePie. Hey, there are ships I don't like, and I don't actively really like very many at all. What I do take issue with is your assertion that CheesePie fics must, of necessity, be fluffy, light, boring, or out of character, and by extension, the authors who write it must not be very good at character analysis or creating interesting plots, ergo, not good authors. And that is pretty galling.
2513006 Incidentally, I love your thinking on AJ here. People who miss AJ's deep love of her land and family are missing out on a lot. They're missing that for her, they're very closely related things, and that she literally has "deep roots" (which would sort of explain the way she treats Bloomberg, come to think of it. ) Yanking her away would tear at something deep inside. AppleDash--and I'm guessing here, because I haven't read a lot of it--involves nothing less than a marriage of earth and air. Despite their sometimes goodnatured and sometimes antagonistic competitiveness, it would be very difficult. There's a gorgeous moment in Wind in the Willows where Toad has convinced the Mole and the Water Rat to join him on a caravan trip, and he says dismissively, "talk about your old River!" And Rat says under his breath--I'm paraphrasing--"I DON'T talk about my old River. But I think about it. I think about it all the time!" He's been ripped out of his element, and it's breaking his heart with homesickness. I have the same problem with writers who casually ship Braeburn off to Ponyville or wherever and ignore how much he loves Appleloosa. You could see it as a naive belief in the idea that romantic love is the only thing that really matters, and everything else just falls into place without any trouble.
I think you can get a lot more out of characters and stories if you take them seriously, and if you take Cheese's story seriously, Pinkie unconsciously and unintentionally made him into a reality warping being like herself. She created a sort of evangelist of laughter, and this means he CAN'T stay by her side, because his entire purpose is to go where she can't and pass on the gift. They could, in fact, wind up as platonic friends. They could wind up in a sort of deep and passionate non-sexual relationship that even their best friends wouldn't understand. But you don't get there by assuming in advance that it's fluffy and shallow.
On the other hand, I take even Trenderhoof seriously.
2510967
Hey don't diss Weird Al freakin Yankovic. He means a lot to a lot of people! Also, I don't have much to add but I'd ship pinkie with just about everyone yeah that includes cheese.
2513473
Well that's a depressing look at CheesePie so tragic. What would make it even more tragic is that Pinkie is getting married to someone else and Cheese has to watch from afar heartbrokenly because he knows they could never be.
So now I'm being downvoted and attacked for my opinion on an opinion blog. Interesting. But yeah. pinkiefan shut the hell up. Personal feelings aside he wanted to just do whatever, they threw a script at him, he QQ'd and acted a child.
2514269
2514586 Whoa. You guys. Calm down. This is a site discussing fake cartoon ponies. Unless one of you personally knows Weird Al, I can't even see how he's relevant to the discussion, which is responding to Jake's assessment of a ship between two fictional characters.
2514826
I have no clue how the parodist got dragged into this I wonder what cheese's character would be like if Al hadn't voiced him eh can't picture it. I think they are very much opposite to one another but yet still have things in common. The baker's apprentice falls in love with a traveling accordionist, but his need to wander keeps them apart she could go with him but she feels she cant leave her friends don't want her to leave either . A woman er mare is torn between her love and her village. Crap got carried away pardon me....
You know, I do agree that at first glance Cheese Pie seems too close. Basically it'd be like shipping Pinkie with herself. It's almost unnatural. Worse, I do agree that having two characters like that dilutes things. But they do make good friends.
Other ships I dislike.... I don't hate Flash Sentry but shipping him with anyone at all feels wrong because he's so cardboard. Although, at least with Twilight you can get into the fact she's probably only paying attention to him because of her big brother complex (seriously, human form flash has blue hair and a shield cutie mark on a white shirt). Also, Discord/anyone feels wrong. The guy barely understands friendship, let's not move into romance. Oh and Spike/Rarity. The age difference makes it creepy. And the fact he'll probably age slower than her just means it will get worse with time.
However, all those ships I dislike on general principles can be done well enough to impress me, it's just harder.
2511214
There's also Pinkie tackling her in Wonderbolt's Academy. At first Dash is like "SIX HUNDRED POUND PONY ON MY NECK AAAA" and then after a couple seconds she's about it.
I just realized that I said / will say in this post the same things I said in my first comment.
Oh well.
In Ponka's defense during Filli Vanilli, way back in Putting Your Hoof Down Fluttershy called her retarded.