Well, he can't say he didn't have it coming. Seriously, saying Chrysalis was a better lay was a pretty deep low to sink to, Shining. Messed up in the head or not, that was inexcusable. You're lucky Cadance really didn't hurt you. It just shows she's a better pony than you. Again.
All in all, this was a very satisfying chapter, if only because of Cadance finally saying what's been on my mind for a while. Great job!
I'm still pretty much on Shining's side after reading this. Sure Cadence makes her points but its hard to even feel that sorry for her, sure she's playing a mother role but it can get really tiring if your better half is doing it all the time.What I hate is that sometimes even when you're rooting for a particular character, stuff ends up blowing up in their face. Maybe I'm being a little biased, but that's how I feel after reading this chapter.
While some blame can be put on Shining but I see he can get backed up into a corner easy when arguing with Cadence he can fumble with what he wants to say. He blew it with that one time but whatever to make the story to progress. But really he has no freedom...
I believe that the roses and chocolate might best be delivered via gift basket, with long apology letter discussing what has been going on. No chance for an argument to derail the discussion, and then just say where Shining will wait for her response.
Either that, or he should present the gifts, say he loves her, and hug for a start.
What stupid stuff did he tell Cadence? He only told her the truth about everything. The reason he didn't tell her about going out with his friends is cause Cadence would be a cunt and refuse to allow him to see them period. And as for her 'claiming' she never told her friends thats complete bullshit. Its instinct for females to share their personal life with their friends. Either that or the maids have been listening in on everything. I totlly called it at the end of the last chapter that Cadence would side with her friends over Shining. Go back to Cadence groveling,begging and pleading to Cedence to forgive for doing wrong except not telling her he was going out with his friends cause otherwise she would never have allowed him to leave the room? At this point I'd say axe the marriage and move on to somepony who isn't a complete cunt and doesn't go psycho if left alone at night.
You wouldn't believe how happy I was when this updated just now! I thank Christ that you didn't cliffhanger us with Shining huddled in his broken quarters! I was happy that you continued on into the jail scene and left us some good feels after nuking us from orbit with such an emotional fight.
Man, Shining really dug himself to China during that fight. He is gonna have to do a lot of climbing to set everything right.
Great chapter as always. Things are evenly more messed up now so it's good Armour finally found some anchor in life talking with his buddy. I really thought he will go bonkers after the fight.
I think the narrator was too chatty in the beginning of this one. I can see what you're going for, I'm just saying that what you're going for is a bad thing. It is annoying when Pratchett pads himself out with these preachy, pseudo-intellectual monologues about "coppers" and "tea" and whatever, it is annoying when you do it. It also drags down the story. During Cadence and Shining's fight there was also too much not dialogue. Instead of feeling like two dogs caged together in a room, it felt like one off those interviews conducted via satellite where each question or answer is followed by several seconds of them staring at the screen waiting for the delay to clear.
I liked the later conversations, they had a much better rhythm. Especially Shining confessing his impotence to Luna.
2329759 I don't think that would be so badly. They're both bonkers, and their craziness only amplifies when they're around each other. So maybe they should be around people who make them less crazy instead? Shining Armor and Iron Sight could quit the army and go start a Bed & Breakfast together in Vermont. Cadence can marry her maids and live out whatever bizarre Up Stairs Down Stairs romance the two old hags have been planning.
2330284 The beginning was already cleaned up alot, and explained several things about Shining Armor.
There is more to communication than just two talking heads. How they move, what they look at, it's all part of it. And there was a very physical side to the whole confrontation, and I wanted to bring the feeling of claustrophobia and Shiny's fear of abuse into the narrative.
So maybe they should be around people who make them less crazy instead? Shining Armor and Iron Sight could quit the army and go start a Bed & Breakfast together in Vermont. Cadence can marry her maids and live out whatever bizarre Up Stairs Down Stairs romance the two old hags have been planning.
And this is actually what really disappointed me. Before, you've actually had some points to your ranting, but this is just childish. I'm sorry to say that if you don't like the story, don't force yourself to read it. Every chapter I post, you come in here and whine. And I really do mean to use the word whine instead of critique. There is nothing constructive about your comments, only ranting.
2330432 Good question. I thought about it, or writing a chapter or two from Cady's perspective, but it would have destroyed the limited perspective this story gives. And I'd feel too much like David Eddings if I wrote the same story over again with just some changes. This way I can keep the realizations and events more personal for Shiny.
The moment you think "Please don't hurt me, please don't hurt me" you need to reevaluate your relationship. I mean, the whole "jacking off to your sister" and preferring a bug in bed thing should be worked on too, but still. I mean, I can see how they blew up at each other, but now they just gotta smoke some weed, chill, and talk about how to fix their relationship. Cadence was at fault, arguably more so than Shining. I mean, she should have noticed that he didn't enjoy the maids and their "joking." She shouldn't have assumed everything he felt with Queenie, everything he went through. She also trashed the room. She hurts him without even trying. She coddles him. THEN she tries to blame him for half of it. Blame him for the problems he has. Shining was at fault too though, he did trash the apartment, say some hateful things, jerk off all over the room, and go nuts for a bit.
I think something that took me out of the moment for a little while was having Shining thinking about stopping and wanting to desperately stop. However, I felt like if he was able to think that then he'd stop. When we get emotionally charged and say stupid things it's because we can't think rationally. Thinking back to all the times in my life when I've gotten upset and said stupid things I don't recall being in any state of mind to think, "Stop!" It's when I'm able to think those things that I stop. That's what got me. Otherwise I enjoyed it.
And here I was holding out hope that "We need to talk" would lead to some actual productive talking. But when "the talk" starts off with
"Why did you have to ruin everything?"
then things really can't go anywhere but downhill from there. Yeah, for all her problems, I'm finding it very hard to empathize with Cadance. Unfortunately, the same goes for Shining, and it's leaving me in the uncomfortable position of not really having anypony to root for. Everypony in this story seems to have major issues, with the exception of Sassy Swallow. (On that topic, I've noticed the therapy sessions are my favourite parts of the story.)
Not my favourite chapter, and I'll explain why. FIrst, let me say that there was nothing significantly wrong, just some things which didn't feel quite as smooth as they could have been: 1. The intro. Too purply, and too distant from the main plot. Doesn't feel like it really belongs. Doesn't add much to the story that couldn't have been accomplished in one or two to-the-point sentences. 2. The argument between Cady and Shiny shifts tone too much and too quickly. Shiny's trying to placate her, then accuse her, then attack her, then escape, while the "voice" within is telling him the exact opposite thing to whatever he's actually doing, breaking up the conversation with opposing emotions. That's not even getting into the shifts between brutal honestly and evasive lies. On both sides. It's too jumbled. I'll actually admit this is probably realistic, but this is a case where realism doesn't make for good reading. An argument like this should have one major tone shift at a critical moment. Maybe two, but even that's hard to pull off. As it stands now, you're making it hard for a reader to get into Shining's headspace because you don't keep him in a single mindset for long enough; he's just running down a list of emotions at breakneck pace. 3. Headscratcher: I can't help thinking that knocking out a pony's teeth should have some consequences. Even (especially?) if it comes form a superior officer? I'm not military, so maybe someone can clarify if I'm off base here? More generally, I always hate it when words are met with fists/hooves. It always makes me lose nearly all respect for the one who initiates the physical violence. (If someone can hurt you with mere words, but you must resort to punches in order to hurt them, you're weak and pathetic. End of.) In this case it's even worse since the comment wasn't a direct attack, just a thoughtless kind of banter. 4. Headscratcher: Treason? Seriously? I'd think the standard for levelling a charge like that would be pretty high. Reckless endangerment, breaking and entering, even assault I could see happening, but treason? There needs to be more of a justification here.
May ought to reconsider. We get so much of Shiny's perspective some of us are starting to identify with his reasoning and accept his rationalizations. This is bad for 2 reasons:
1.) All his problems are the result of trauma (it skews- and screws up-his perspective on events, screws up his lovelife, and makes him act out childishly and stupidly when he doesn't get his way) what these fans don't realize is that they are encouraging his disorder. Pity will not help him it will drive him even further down into his madness.
2.) Conversely, it's harder to identify with Cadance who arguably suffered worse at the hands of Chrysalis and whose kindness and concern has been taken for granted but who acts too controlling and needy for fans to sympathize.
tl;dr without a counterbalance to Shiny's perspective fans are missing the point.
- A text that make you breath harder at the end of every sentence. - Wouldn't want to stop reading for anything. - Getting excited when a new chapter is relased.
This is the best fanfic i have ever read.
Those feelings, those description, that humor.
I love it. And if i could, i would pay you to write more. And as i said, i can't pay you. So have a derpy.
2330631 A but see that's the thing with relationships it has to be both parties to work it out for it's an argument in which both have the blame and it's incredibly unfair for a 3 party to dictate who has more blame because right now we only see the story from Shining point of view. Both have screw up because both of them were dishonest with their feelings, fears and discontent. Both of them heard the other's problem but they didn't listen to them. Obviously Candace also need therapy for her PTSD and just like Shining she's probably only thinking of her problems wile trying to pretend to the world that everything is ok add to that an spouse who's clearly upset with you, you don't know why and no matter what you do it only makes it worse. So really it's really unfair of you to put more blame on her when it's evident that it's both of them have equal blame and the problem escalated because non address the elephant in the room until it was to late.
The argument was incredibly well written and it made me feel disgusting inside.
I think I was shouting the "If what you're saying is meant to hurt: stop talking." rule inside my head there for a bit.
Though I think I'm with Softy8088 on the therapy sessions being my favourite part. in defense of this statement I would like to point out that the story moves froward the most in the therapy scenes; as opposed to say the scenes with Iron Sides where almost all of it is back-story exposition.
Other than that, I eagerly await the next installment.
2331285 You could say that, and I can't argue that we only see half the story. Based on the information we have been shown, however, that is how I see it. And just to throw it out there, I consider rape, even if you don't realize it's rape, to be worse than just about any crime you can commit. So being imprisoned in some caves < Being tricked into fucking a bug.
2331244 I would have agreed with this earlier in the story, but the last two chapters have so thoroughly emasculated Shining that Cadence is just ... awful.
The last chapter had two parallel incidents. 1. Cadence is surprised by Shining's friends. She proceeds to physically beat them into submission. When the matter is finally sorted out, she is still angry and sends Iron Sides to prison with a capital offense hanging over his head. Shining tries to get him out using his authority, but is told he doesn't have that kind of power. Instead he visits one of his oldest friends using a loophole and cries himself to sleep in the guy's cell.
2. Shining is surprised by Cadence's friends. He proceeds to be verbally beaten into submission. When the matter is finally he sorted out, he is still enraged and attempts to have the maids fired. Cadence doesn't even have to try to block him, she just does.
Cadence is always superior, smarter and the aggressor. She starts and wins every battle in a devastating manner, to the extent that he's reduced to curling up in a ball and screaming, "Please don't hurt me again." Shining Armor is acting like a sullen, withdrawn, hormonal brat (very teenaged, complete with sneaking out of the house to get drunk and compulsive masturbation), but he is also pathetic beyond words. Pitiful like a kicked dog, and Cadence just keeps on hauling her foot back for another blow.
tl;dr reverse the gender roles for a minute. A female rape victim is separated from her friends and all she has ever known by her controlling, demigod of a husband whose frat brothers regularly appear to mock her infertility and blame her for enjoying being raped. Would you be interested in the man's perspective?
the drama, the friendship, the fear, the unbridled Emotion
just GRRRRRRRRRRRR i love it. everything just works so well! no-one is right, no-one is wrong! the eternal dance of the tribulations of a deity and her hero lover! THE DEEP PSYCHOLOGICAL SCARING THEY BOTH SHARE! ITS JUST TO MUCH!
i hope the final chapter has some really intense Dominant Shinning and Submissive Candece. no gentle fucking, just mane pulling, ear biting angry sex
and then post orgasm snuggling, cuase post-angry sex snugging is nice.
The argument made me sad. Not just because of the things said, but the greater scenario: Shining and Cadence are two characters who, by all appearances, really loved each other and had a fulfilling and healthy relationship, heading straight for a perfect wedding. But now both of them are reeling from trauma and are taking their issues out on each other, because a third party did horrible things to them they neither wanted nor deserved, and on what was to be the happiest day of their lives. Holy hell, Chrysalis, you're pure evil.
The revelations about Cadence give her actions a new dimension. The two maids have been with her since early childhood--she calls them her "friends," but given that they've shepherded her throughout her life, they might be closer to surrogate mothers, similar to the role Celestia performs for Twilight. If that's the case, then of course Cadence was more willing to ignore how their jibes were obviously causing Shining discomfort. It also makes sense why the maids are so condemnatory towards Shining--they're protective of the pony they've looked after since she was a little girl, and looking at Shining's recent behavior without knowing about his psychological torment would set off some alarm bells for them.
But she's not wholly without fault here. When she talks about how Shining Armor just fooled around with Chrysalis while she was trapped, that indicates an unhealthy level of self-pity and an ignorance of the other party's own trauma. Cadence didn't want to confront Shining over the fact that he slept with Chrysalis and was the one who pushed him into therapy to begin with, so she doesn't blame him wholly--but her behavior and words in this chapter indicate that she seems to view Shining's time with Chrysalis as a form of adultery she's "forgiven" him for, instead of recognizing that he was raped and not guilty of any misdeed. So while not actively malicious, she still fails to see the larger picture about her husband: on how harrowing his rape was, on how the maids' comments were damaging his self-esteem, and how she has carelessly done him bodily harm.
2331721 I never said that rape wasn't a horrible crime and you are entitle to believe that one is worst that the other. But I can assure you that the trauma of a kidnapped victim is not going to be less than a a rape victim. Both are the result of a horrible events and both can cause sever mental issues. Think about it, if she is so powerful then why she couldn't escape on her own? she wasn't "just" imprisoned. Something else happened to her to be so scare of being alone.
1. The beating was a result of a terrified mare who is afraid to be alone and, by her actions until now, is constantly afraid that she or her love ones will be kidnap. When everything is clear Iron Sides takes the blame and she imprison him. Yes, Cadance over reacted and on the next morning even felt guilty if you remember her confession.
2. I agree with you here, the maid had it coming because it wasn't their place to scold Shining even though he deserve it after the temper tantrum he unleash on the room. Your seem upset because Shining wasn't allow to fire the maids, but here is the thing, their contract stated that only with the permission of the one who hire them they were to be fired. So it's not just Shining but anyone who tried it would be blocked. An seeing as she has known them since childhood then the stipulation of the contract has nothing to do with "emasculating" him.
You describe Candace as the " I win, you lose" type of girl. And I ask you, aside from the night before with the guards and this discussion, what battles? He's afraid of her because she's bigger than normal and he associates it with Crysalis. You also said that she keeps kicking him down even after he is defeated. How is trying to talk and open up to him is kicking him down? You said it your self, Shining is acting la a spoiled teen and because of that he only see the things in an angry irrational way. What we see trough his eyes is that Candace is smothering him and is over protective, she beat the crap out of the guards (mistaking them for kidnappers) and embarrassing him, etc. He becomes enrage and feels powerless and starts resenting her because it makes him feel less like a man plus the impotency. We know for what she has told him that she can't sleep right, she is scare to be alone and keeps dreaming of the caves so she clearly is also suffering the aftermath of the ordeal and yet he only rationalize this issues after the fight with her. So I can say that no, there is no way you can compare Cadance with an abusive husband and yes I do want to hear her side of the story. Because BOTH of them are suffering
Wow: that panic attack at the beginning of the chapter was... well... perfectly understandable, considering Shine's baggage up to this point. The conversation was then very realistic. I love the story so far.
They both have issues that they haven't told each other about which is making them say things they regret. Maids overstepped their boundaries and caused more of a problem than what was solved, there is other ways to solve it than pissing off the god damn guy every fucking day! If you don't enter an argument calm chances are its going to go badly.
2331738 Whenever there is intergender conflict, even if the conflict is not nearly as sexual as this one, I find it an interesting exercise to invoke Rule 63 and look at a different lens. It makes anime fascinating, if you've ever seen The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, (or The Genderbending of Haruhi for the rule 63 version) it really cements how some things are funny or just icky one way, but incredibly dark or torturous the other. Same with this one.
The gender-swap at the same time works for Cadence's perspective too. Here you are, Prince of a land, lord of the concept of "love" itself, and you find a pretty little thing who catches your fancy. She works hard, becomes captain of the guard. You go on a few dates, she lets you babysit her brother to let you feel normal and not Super Prince Of Love all the time, you get comfortable with her. Then some guy in black platemail beats your head in, ties you up in a strange location, and informs you over a few months that your girlfriend prefers him as he tortures you. When you're rescued by your girlfriend's little brother, suddenly, your larger size that she used to like is now terrifying to her, the servants who treat you most like a real being and not some artificial Prince construct she tries to fire because they made one or two inappropriate jokes, and she is afraid of being touched, let alone able to interact intimately, though she can at least tolerate (and it is obvious she is just tolerating) your presence. Then she confirms your fears: Yeah, the other guy was a better lay, you wanting to feel "real" is wrong, and she would infinitely prefer a night out with the girls over spending any time with you.
If a gender-swap sounds equally bad either side of the gender fence, it's usually well-written. If it sounds particularly worse from one side of it, you gotta think about what that means as we view society. This fic is an excellent social commentary fodder.
Also, to the author: *someone (somepony?) *wowel (vowel?)
but i can't agree with any of the pro-cadence points anymore as further it goes, it just makes her too dominant that its setting herself up to look like the bad guy that you just can't feel bad for anymore as the story goes down. everyone keeps pointing out that Shining is acting like a spoiled teen, i just don't see it. every time a new problem shows up for Shining, somehow we're supposed to feel a thousand times worse for Cadence. Just can't feel it for anything on her behalf, her story, her side, hell even the maids some of the comments are trying to defend. Call me unfeeling but... she is beyond repair until someone finally comes up to her and slaps her (shining too abit), she won't give Shining any room to breath. As the story goes on, it just makes me groan more. She might as well not even married him, should have just made him her boy toy
2332876 Let's think about a female soldier. She's trained all her life and is tough as nails. During a combat scenario, she gets raped. Now, she returns to being a civilian and is married to a 7 foot bodybuilder, who doesn't know his own strength. He doesn't let her go anywhere because he's afraid she'd get abducted or raped again. She thinks it's silly, because it's a time of piece, and she's tough as nails. It gets worse, and her husband refuses to let her go out alone, always coming with her or sending someone else to check up on her. And he's so worried about her that he wants to hold her close for fear of losing her. And he's broken some of her bones by accident when hugging her. She never said anything, because she's tough as nails.
Still the soldier woman cries every day, and is forced to go to therapy, which for a soldier is like signing her own resignation. She feels guilt for being raped, for being defeated, and for being treated chauvinistically over all. She comes home, and her husband, and two of his friends happen to be about and start commenting on what a sexy beast she is. They both blush, but the soldier rather they piss off. They're her hubby's friends, and even though she doesn't like it, she takes it. It's not like she wasn't used to rough talk from military service.
Well, that was mood swingy, as is par for the course. How long will it take in the next chapter for things to get worse?
Well, Shining Armor and Cadence were both in full 'stick own hoof straight up own ass' mode in this one. Both equally so in my view.
I really hope they can work this out before King Sombra shows up. XD
In all seriousness, though, you've crafted a good story. I look forward to more.
C'mon Shining, leave the pink witch!
I wanna see this end badly for everypoooooonnnnnyyyyyy
Well, he can't say he didn't have it coming. Seriously, saying Chrysalis was a better lay was a pretty deep low to sink to, Shining. Messed up in the head or not, that was inexcusable. You're lucky Cadance really didn't hurt you. It just shows she's a better pony than you. Again.
All in all, this was a very satisfying chapter, if only because of Cadance finally saying what's been on my mind for a while. Great job!
Damnit Shiney! Get your shit together!
I'm still pretty much on Shining's side after reading this. Sure Cadence makes her points but its hard to even feel that sorry for her, sure she's playing a mother role but it can get really tiring if your better half is doing it all the time.What I hate is that sometimes even when you're rooting for a particular character, stuff ends up blowing up in their face. Maybe I'm being a little biased, but that's how I feel after reading this chapter.
While some blame can be put on Shining but I see he can get backed up into a corner easy when arguing with Cadence he can fumble with what he wants to say. He blew it with that one time but whatever to make the story to progress. But really he has no freedom...
ps. FIRE THOSE DAMN MAIDS
Shining really needs to get his head examined, or have his mouth removed so he never says anything stupid ever again.
Moar, moar, and moar please!
Shouldn't Shining have taken the time to ask Luna if she could release Iron Sight? I know I would have...
I fucking love this story
I believe that the roses and chocolate might best be delivered via gift basket, with long apology letter discussing what has been going on. No chance for an argument to derail the discussion, and then just say where Shining will wait for her response.
Either that, or he should present the gifts, say he loves her, and hug for a start.
What stupid stuff did he tell Cadence? He only told her the truth about everything. The reason he didn't tell her about going out with his friends is cause Cadence would be a cunt and refuse to allow him to see them period. And as for her 'claiming' she never told her friends thats complete bullshit. Its instinct for females to share their personal life with their friends. Either that or the maids have been listening in on everything. I totlly called it at the end of the last chapter that Cadence would side with her friends over Shining. Go back to Cadence groveling,begging and pleading to Cedence to forgive for doing wrong except not telling her he was going out with his friends cause otherwise she would never have allowed him to leave the room? At this point I'd say axe the marriage and move on to somepony who isn't a complete cunt and doesn't go psycho if left alone at night.
You wouldn't believe how happy I was when this updated just now!
I thank Christ that you didn't cliffhanger us with Shining huddled in his broken quarters! I was happy that you continued on into the jail scene and left us some good feels after nuking us from orbit with such an emotional fight.
Man, Shining really dug himself to China during that fight. He is gonna have to do a lot of climbing to set everything right.
Relevant song is relevant:
Jude=Shining Armor
Max=Iron Sights
Great chapter as always.
Things are evenly more messed up now so it's good Armour finally found some anchor in life talking with his buddy.
I really thought he will go bonkers after the fight.
I think the narrator was too chatty in the beginning of this one. I can see what you're going for, I'm just saying that what you're going for is a bad thing. It is annoying when Pratchett pads himself out with these preachy, pseudo-intellectual monologues about "coppers" and "tea" and whatever, it is annoying when you do it.
It also drags down the story.
During Cadence and Shining's fight there was also too much not dialogue. Instead of feeling like two dogs caged together in a room, it felt like one off those interviews conducted via satellite where each question or answer is followed by several seconds of them staring at the screen waiting for the delay to clear.
I liked the later conversations, they had a much better rhythm. Especially Shining confessing his impotence to Luna.
2329759
I don't think that would be so badly. They're both bonkers, and their craziness only amplifies when they're around each other. So maybe they should be around people who make them less crazy instead?
Shining Armor and Iron Sight could quit the army and go start a Bed & Breakfast together in Vermont. Cadence can marry her maids and live out whatever bizarre Up Stairs Down Stairs romance the two old hags have been planning.
2329927 He was, but I cut it out for pacing and a reason to return to it later.
2329972 I fucking love your avatar.
2330284 The beginning was already cleaned up alot, and explained several things about Shining Armor.
There is more to communication than just two talking heads. How they move, what they look at, it's all part of it. And there was a very physical side to the whole confrontation, and I wanted to bring the feeling of claustrophobia and Shiny's fear of abuse into the narrative.
And this is actually what really disappointed me. Before, you've actually had some points to your ranting, but this is just childish. I'm sorry to say that if you don't like the story, don't force yourself to read it. Every chapter I post, you come in here and whine. And I really do mean to use the word whine instead of critique. There is nothing constructive about your comments, only ranting.
Would you ever make a story after this showing cadences side of the story and what she is dealing with and how they are conflicting with shinnings
2330432 Good question. I thought about it, or writing a chapter or two from Cady's perspective, but it would have destroyed the limited perspective this story gives. And I'd feel too much like David Eddings if I wrote the same story over again with just some changes. This way I can keep the realizations and events more personal for Shiny.
Err... hope that makes any sense?
2330421
If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't complain; I'd just not read.
There is so much of this that is beautiful, that when parts aren't it grinds in a way that the average fanfic's flaws don't.
Also, Iron Sight is a saint. He and Shining would make a cute couple.
EDIT:
I'm sorry if at any point I conned you into having expectations in me that could be disappointed.
Commence read.
That was a crazy turn about.
Does Cadence know that the only reason Shining knows how good Chrysalis is in bed is because she raped him?
That was much less violent then I thought. Still bad, but not as bad.
I still can't belive Cadence didn't suspect Shining didn't like the maids. They are almost impossible to like outside of the "comedic relif" realm.
Still in agreement with Shining that the maids need to die.
Or at least get put on a train to somewhere far away.
The moment you think "Please don't hurt me, please don't hurt me" you need to reevaluate your relationship. I mean, the whole "jacking off to your sister" and preferring a bug in bed thing should be worked on too, but still.
I mean, I can see how they blew up at each other, but now they just gotta smoke some weed, chill, and talk about how to fix their relationship.
Cadence was at fault, arguably more so than Shining. I mean, she should have noticed that he didn't enjoy the maids and their "joking."
She shouldn't have assumed everything he felt with Queenie, everything he went through.
She also trashed the room. She hurts him without even trying. She coddles him. THEN she tries to blame him for half of it. Blame him for the problems he has.
Shining was at fault too though, he did trash the apartment, say some hateful things, jerk off all over the room, and go nuts for a bit.
2330454
It does. Emotional trauma is limited when we already know what's coming.
Except the season 1 opener episodes. They still get me every time.
I think something that took me out of the moment for a little while was having Shining thinking about stopping and wanting to desperately stop. However, I felt like if he was able to think that then he'd stop. When we get emotionally charged and say stupid things it's because we can't think rationally. Thinking back to all the times in my life when I've gotten upset and said stupid things I don't recall being in any state of mind to think, "Stop!" It's when I'm able to think those things that I stop. That's what got me. Otherwise I enjoyed it.
Step 1: Divorce Cadence
Step 2: Marry Luna.
Step 3: Profit.
omg i need more.... really.... M-O-A-R!!!!!
And here I was holding out hope that "We need to talk" would lead to some actual productive talking. But when "the talk" starts off with
then things really can't go anywhere but downhill from there. Yeah, for all her problems, I'm finding it very hard to empathize with Cadance.
Unfortunately, the same goes for Shining, and it's leaving me in the uncomfortable position of not really having anypony to root for. Everypony in this story seems to have major issues, with the exception of Sassy Swallow. (On that topic, I've noticed the therapy sessions are my favourite parts of the story.)
Not my favourite chapter, and I'll explain why. FIrst, let me say that there was nothing significantly wrong, just some things which didn't feel quite as smooth as they could have been:
1. The intro. Too purply, and too distant from the main plot. Doesn't feel like it really belongs. Doesn't add much to the story that couldn't have been accomplished in one or two to-the-point sentences.
2. The argument between Cady and Shiny shifts tone too much and too quickly. Shiny's trying to placate her, then accuse her, then attack her, then escape, while the "voice" within is telling him the exact opposite thing to whatever he's actually doing, breaking up the conversation with opposing emotions. That's not even getting into the shifts between brutal honestly and evasive lies. On both sides. It's too jumbled.
I'll actually admit this is probably realistic, but this is a case where realism doesn't make for good reading. An argument like this should have one major tone shift at a critical moment. Maybe two, but even that's hard to pull off. As it stands now, you're making it hard for a reader to get into Shining's headspace because you don't keep him in a single mindset for long enough; he's just running down a list of emotions at breakneck pace.
3. Headscratcher: I can't help thinking that knocking out a pony's teeth should have some consequences. Even (especially?) if it comes form a superior officer? I'm not military, so maybe someone can clarify if I'm off base here?
More generally, I always hate it when words are met with fists/hooves. It always makes me lose nearly all respect for the one who initiates the physical violence. (If someone can hurt you with mere words, but you must resort to punches in order to hurt them, you're weak and pathetic. End of.) In this case it's even worse since the comment wasn't a direct attack, just a thoughtless kind of banter.
4. Headscratcher: Treason? Seriously? I'd think the standard for levelling a charge like that would be pretty high. Reckless endangerment, breaking and entering, even assault I could see happening, but treason? There needs to be more of a justification here.
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May ought to reconsider. We get so much of Shiny's perspective some of us are starting to identify with his reasoning and accept his rationalizations. This is bad for 2 reasons:
1.) All his problems are the result of trauma (it skews- and screws up-his perspective on events, screws up his lovelife, and makes him act out childishly and stupidly when he doesn't get his way) what these fans don't realize is that they are encouraging his disorder. Pity will not help him it will drive him even further down into his madness.
2.) Conversely, it's harder to identify with Cadance who arguably suffered worse at the hands of Chrysalis and whose kindness and concern has been taken for granted but who acts too controlling and needy for fans to sympathize.
tl;dr without a counterbalance to Shiny's perspective fans are missing the point.
- A text that make you breath harder at the end of every sentence.
- Wouldn't want to stop reading for anything.
- Getting excited when a new chapter is relased.
This is the best fanfic i have ever read.
Those feelings, those description, that humor.
I love it.
And if i could, i would pay you to write more.
And as i said, i can't pay you. So have a derpy.
2330631 A but see that's the thing with relationships it has to be both parties to work it out for it's an argument in which both have the blame and it's incredibly unfair for a 3 party to dictate who has more blame because right now we only see the story from Shining point of view. Both have screw up because both of them were dishonest with their feelings, fears and discontent. Both of them heard the other's problem but they didn't listen to them.
Obviously Candace also need therapy for her PTSD and just like Shining she's probably only thinking of her problems wile trying to pretend to the world that everything is ok add to that an spouse who's clearly upset with you, you don't know why and no matter what you do it only makes it worse. So really it's really unfair of you to put more blame on her when it's evident that it's both of them have equal blame and the problem escalated because non address the elephant in the room until it was to late.
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but that would be convenient.
The argument was incredibly well written and it made me feel disgusting inside.
I think I was shouting the "If what you're saying is meant to hurt: stop talking." rule inside my head there for a bit.
Though I think I'm with Softy8088 on the therapy sessions being my favourite part. in defense of this statement I would like to point out that the story moves froward the most in the therapy scenes; as opposed to say the scenes with Iron Sides where almost all of it is back-story exposition.
Other than that, I eagerly await the next installment.
2331285 You could say that, and I can't argue that we only see half the story. Based on the information we have been shown, however, that is how I see it.
And just to throw it out there, I consider rape, even if you don't realize it's rape, to be worse than just about any crime you can commit. So being imprisoned in some caves < Being tricked into fucking a bug.
2331244
I would have agreed with this earlier in the story, but the last two chapters have so thoroughly emasculated Shining that Cadence is just ... awful.
The last chapter had two parallel incidents.
1. Cadence is surprised by Shining's friends. She proceeds to physically beat them into submission. When the matter is finally sorted out, she is still angry and sends Iron Sides to prison with a capital offense hanging over his head. Shining tries to get him out using his authority, but is told he doesn't have that kind of power. Instead he visits one of his oldest friends using a loophole and cries himself to sleep in the guy's cell.
2. Shining is surprised by Cadence's friends. He proceeds to be verbally beaten into submission. When the matter is finally he sorted out, he is still enraged and attempts to have the maids fired. Cadence doesn't even have to try to block him, she just does.
Cadence is always superior, smarter and the aggressor. She starts and wins every battle in a devastating manner, to the extent that he's reduced to curling up in a ball and screaming, "Please don't hurt me again."
Shining Armor is acting like a sullen, withdrawn, hormonal brat (very teenaged, complete with sneaking out of the house to get drunk and compulsive masturbation), but he is also pathetic beyond words. Pitiful like a kicked dog, and Cadence just keeps on hauling her foot back for another blow.
tl;dr reverse the gender roles for a minute. A female rape victim is separated from her friends and all she has ever known by her controlling, demigod of a husband whose frat brothers regularly appear to mock her infertility and blame her for enjoying being raped. Would you be interested in the man's perspective?
Mass orgy, you say?
OH MY FUCKING GOD YES!
the drama, the friendship, the fear, the unbridled Emotion
just GRRRRRRRRRRRR i love it. everything just works so well! no-one is right, no-one is wrong! the eternal dance of the tribulations of a deity and her hero lover! THE DEEP PSYCHOLOGICAL SCARING THEY BOTH SHARE! ITS JUST TO MUCH!
i hope the final chapter has some really intense Dominant Shinning and Submissive Candece. no gentle fucking, just mane pulling, ear biting angry sex
and then post orgasm snuggling, cuase post-angry sex snugging is nice.
okay, awesome work, its like the trash bin has finally been dumped.
The argument made me sad. Not just because of the things said, but the greater scenario: Shining and Cadence are two characters who, by all appearances, really loved each other and had a fulfilling and healthy relationship, heading straight for a perfect wedding. But now both of them are reeling from trauma and are taking their issues out on each other, because a third party did horrible things to them they neither wanted nor deserved, and on what was to be the happiest day of their lives. Holy hell, Chrysalis, you're pure evil.
The revelations about Cadence give her actions a new dimension. The two maids have been with her since early childhood--she calls them her "friends," but given that they've shepherded her throughout her life, they might be closer to surrogate mothers, similar to the role Celestia performs for Twilight. If that's the case, then of course Cadence was more willing to ignore how their jibes were obviously causing Shining discomfort. It also makes sense why the maids are so condemnatory towards Shining--they're protective of the pony they've looked after since she was a little girl, and looking at Shining's recent behavior without knowing about his psychological torment would set off some alarm bells for them.
If they really are surrogate family to Cadence, then any chance of a reasonable discussion with her would have been dashed when she discovered Shiny had fired them, especially when the news was still fresh. It would be like having your fiancée kick your mother out of the house without talking to you first. No wonder she's pissed.
But she's not wholly without fault here. When she talks about how Shining Armor just fooled around with Chrysalis while she was trapped, that indicates an unhealthy level of self-pity and an ignorance of the other party's own trauma. Cadence didn't want to confront Shining over the fact that he slept with Chrysalis and was the one who pushed him into therapy to begin with, so she doesn't blame him wholly--but her behavior and words in this chapter indicate that she seems to view Shining's time with Chrysalis as a form of adultery she's "forgiven" him for, instead of recognizing that he was raped and not guilty of any misdeed. So while not actively malicious, she still fails to see the larger picture about her husband: on how harrowing his rape was, on how the maids' comments were damaging his self-esteem, and how she has carelessly done him bodily harm.
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I never thought of it like that... holy crap that's dark.
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I never said that rape wasn't a horrible crime and you are entitle to believe that one is worst that the other. But I can assure you that the trauma of a kidnapped victim is not going to be less than a a rape victim. Both are the result of a horrible events and both can cause sever mental issues. Think about it, if she is so powerful then why she couldn't escape on her own? she wasn't "just" imprisoned. Something else happened to her to be so scare of being alone.
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1. The beating was a result of a terrified mare who is afraid to be alone and, by her actions until now, is constantly afraid that she or her love ones will be kidnap. When everything is clear Iron Sides takes the blame and she imprison him. Yes, Cadance over reacted and on the next morning even felt guilty if you remember her confession.
2. I agree with you here, the maid had it coming because it wasn't their place to scold Shining even though he deserve it after the temper tantrum he unleash on the room. Your seem upset because Shining wasn't allow to fire the maids, but here is the thing, their contract stated that only with the permission of the one who hire them they were to be fired. So it's not just Shining but anyone who tried it would be blocked. An seeing as she has known them since childhood then the stipulation of the contract has nothing to do with "emasculating" him.
You describe Candace as the " I win, you lose" type of girl. And I ask you, aside from the night before with the guards and this discussion, what battles? He's afraid of her because she's bigger than normal and he associates it with Crysalis.
You also said that she keeps kicking him down even after he is defeated. How is trying to talk and open up to him is kicking him down? You said it your self, Shining is acting la a spoiled teen and because of that he only see the things in an angry irrational way.
What we see trough his eyes is that Candace is smothering him and is over protective, she beat the crap out of the guards (mistaking them for kidnappers) and embarrassing him, etc. He becomes enrage and feels powerless and starts resenting her because it makes him feel less like a man plus the impotency. We know for what she has told him that she can't sleep right, she is scare to be alone and keeps dreaming of the caves so she clearly is also suffering the aftermath of the ordeal and yet he only rationalize this issues after the fight with her.
So I can say that no, there is no way you can compare Cadance with an abusive husband and yes I do want to hear her side of the story. Because BOTH of them are suffering
Wow: that panic attack at the beginning of the chapter was... well... perfectly understandable, considering Shine's baggage up to this point. The conversation was then very realistic.
I love the story so far.
Not going to analyze this chapter for people have done it for me. My only statement is I loved the anger and more dark parts of this chapter.
They both have issues that they haven't told each other about which is making them say things they regret. Maids overstepped their boundaries and caused more of a problem than what was solved, there is other ways to solve it than pissing off the god damn guy every fucking day! If you don't enter an argument calm chances are its going to go badly.
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Whenever there is intergender conflict, even if the conflict is not nearly as sexual as this one, I find it an interesting exercise to invoke Rule 63 and look at a different lens. It makes anime fascinating, if you've ever seen The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, (or The Genderbending of Haruhi for the rule 63 version) it really cements how some things are funny or just icky one way, but incredibly dark or torturous the other. Same with this one.
The gender-swap at the same time works for Cadence's perspective too. Here you are, Prince of a land, lord of the concept of "love" itself, and you find a pretty little thing who catches your fancy. She works hard, becomes captain of the guard. You go on a few dates, she lets you babysit her brother to let you feel normal and not Super Prince Of Love all the time, you get comfortable with her. Then some guy in black platemail beats your head in, ties you up in a strange location, and informs you over a few months that your girlfriend prefers him as he tortures you. When you're rescued by your girlfriend's little brother, suddenly, your larger size that she used to like is now terrifying to her, the servants who treat you most like a real being and not some artificial Prince construct she tries to fire because they made one or two inappropriate jokes, and she is afraid of being touched, let alone able to interact intimately, though she can at least tolerate (and it is obvious she is just tolerating) your presence. Then she confirms your fears: Yeah, the other guy was a better lay, you wanting to feel "real" is wrong, and she would infinitely prefer a night out with the girls over spending any time with you.
If a gender-swap sounds equally bad either side of the gender fence, it's usually well-written. If it sounds particularly worse from one side of it, you gotta think about what that means as we view society. This fic is an excellent social commentary fodder.
Also, to the author:
*someone (somepony?)
*wowel (vowel?)
2330766 i agree with this one
but i can't agree with any of the pro-cadence points anymore as further it goes, it just makes her too dominant that its setting herself up to look like the bad guy that you just can't feel bad for anymore as the story goes down. everyone keeps pointing out that Shining is acting like a spoiled teen, i just don't see it. every time a new problem shows up for Shining, somehow we're supposed to feel a thousand times worse for Cadence. Just can't feel it for anything on her behalf, her story, her side, hell even the maids some of the comments are trying to defend. Call me unfeeling but... she is beyond repair until someone finally comes up to her and slaps her (shining too abit), she won't give Shining any room to breath. As the story goes on, it just makes me groan more. She might as well not even married him, should have just made him her boy toy
2332876 Let's think about a female soldier. She's trained all her life and is tough as nails. During a combat scenario, she gets raped. Now, she returns to being a civilian and is married to a 7 foot bodybuilder, who doesn't know his own strength. He doesn't let her go anywhere because he's afraid she'd get abducted or raped again. She thinks it's silly, because it's a time of piece, and she's tough as nails. It gets worse, and her husband refuses to let her go out alone, always coming with her or sending someone else to check up on her. And he's so worried about her that he wants to hold her close for fear of losing her. And he's broken some of her bones by accident when hugging her. She never said anything, because she's tough as nails.
Still the soldier woman cries every day, and is forced to go to therapy, which for a soldier is like signing her own resignation. She feels guilt for being raped, for being defeated, and for being treated chauvinistically over all. She comes home, and her husband, and two of his friends happen to be about and start commenting on what a sexy beast she is. They both blush, but the soldier rather they piss off. They're her hubby's friends, and even though she doesn't like it, she takes it. It's not like she wasn't used to rough talk from military service.
The list goes ever on and on.