I know this is a bit old but I'm new on the site and I want to see how you all handle this. Chrysalis was the leader of her country just like the Hearths Warming Eve episodes 3 tribes leaders in the sudden winter. All leaders needed food and warmth and would by any means would keep their own tribes alive but never really thought about the other tribes. Chrysalis is the leader of her queendom. No matter what she needs to lead her hive and keep them from dying. Celestia and Cadence really have no reason to hate her other than the fact that she tried to take over Equestria, but it was for a good cause. She really has no choice just like animals in the wilderness. They may be killing other animals but it's for a good cause. Love is a changeling's natural food source they need to feed off of it for life. They don't have it as good as ponies with able to grow food in their backyards! Chrysalis may be thought of as a villain, and at times act a little evil. But she needs to feed her home. Tell me if you think otherwise.

2965971

EDIT: While I personally do prefer the idea that Chryssy does actually care for her subjects, even I have to admit she enjoys inflicting pain on others far too much.

2965971 I think you have a point, but everyone's going to point at the (non-canon) comic arc involving her

2965971
2965983

Well, that pretty much settles that.

2966005 Comics are secondary canon, meaning as long as they don't contradict the source material.

2965971 She was laughing like a maniac the whole time. Yes. She was evil.

2965971

I don't believe that the 'needs love to survive' thing is the truth. Going with the IDW comics, Chrysalis's top priority was power and revenge after she crashed landed post-Canterlot Wedding, not taking over Equestria. You could argue that she did so thanks to the cat people her minions fed on, but that's just it: the minions she had with her, not the whole race. I woulda overthrown a selfish queen like that in days if I were one of her subjects, lemme tell ya.

So that's why I think Chrysalis, at the very least, is not the queen of changelings as a whole, or, heck, queen of a full hive, since she only looks out for the soldiers with her and no one else. To go to headcanon territory, I believe she is an outlaw of sorts, a de facto queen of a truly evil bunch of changelings. Thus, the rest of them are left unspoken for as far as their society and allegiances go.

2965983

/thread.

2965971 She isn't evil, she's just trying to feed her people.

2966023 that's why I only said that specific arc was not canon.

2966046 I haven't read it. How does it contradict?

2966041 so why the evil laugh?

2966053 if we accept the Map of Equestria as canon. plus Pinkie suddenly sucking at making costumes.

but I haven't really read it either

2966076 Because Hasbro apparently likes making the coolest characters the antagonists.

2965971
2966041

I hate to burst your bubble but Chrysalis never said that her changelings were starving. That is completely headcanon invented by fans. It's just as likely that she only wanted Equestria because it was a particularly delicious and "free" meal, not because she actually needed it.

2966095 ^this

2966095 Then if that were the case, wouldn't she of attacked the cats first, they have more love then, the Equestrians do.

2966079

I don't hold the map in high regard if the show itself can't decide how far away Canterlot is from Ponyville. I'll reread the arc again just to check for other stuff, still.

2966095

It's not something I enjoy admitting, but changelings thus far seem to be an entirely malevolent race, and nothing more. We've already seen that love is a source of magical power for them, and a powerful one at that, so of course someone evil like Chrysalis would help herself to Equestria. That headcanon is just blatant Draco in Leather Pants shit.

2966041

See, what y'all need to keep in mind is that it's totally possible to be evil even if you have a good reason for what you're doing.

2966123 Neither do I, personally, but i'm saying, if it's even TERTIARY canon, then it means the Chrysalis arc itself is not.

I'm not arguing, i'm using what I've gathered that is not my headcanon to support my claim, as opposed to just being a rabid Chrysalis lover using my headcanon to justify her actions

2965971
2966005
2966023
2966029
She's a idiot, is what she is>.< How was she supposed to get love from a nation who hated her? And even if she succeded, what then? When she sucked them dry, attack the dragons, or gryphons? She'd run out of nations to conquer, or more then likely get curb stomped by a people who weren't such pushovers

2966140 I understand that, I'm just saying.

2966181 the fact you use a derogatory word for female genetalia as an insult gives your claim less standing and makes your comment more likely to get downvoted

2966181

Changelings have already shown a capacity to just steal love without a disguise. It's probably not as good as taking it through deception, but they can do it. You may say Chrysalis is stupid, but considering that she probably just intended to chow down after revealing herself, but didn't count on a love bomb from nowhere.

2966108

Actually, in the show Chrysalis said that Equestria had more love than any place her changelings had found.

2966123

I do like the idea of her not being as evil as it initially seemed, and I can support the starvation angle, but it gets really annoying that most everyone seems to think "I'm in charge of feeding my people" means the same thing as "my people are starving." Obama is technically in charge of making sure that the USA stays fed, but that doesn't mean the people who spend way too much time at McDonalds are starving. In fact, far from it; many people at McDonalds should go there less!

2966209
Quite right good sir. Fixed, with apologies

2965971 She essentially sticks to 'survival of the fittest' ideals. As long as she can keep her own species alive and well, she doesn't care anything about others'; kinda like you humans, actually.

2966224 no problem.

and while I am a chrysalis supporter, the only arguments I have disproving it are headcanon, so do not matter. I mean, I personally believe the love-draining process only drains a pony's magic energy, which can regenerate over time, but, once again, that's just headcanon

2966223

I still think, no matter what angle she's coming from, Chrysalis is at least a terrible person.

But now that I think about it, I've NEVER seen that angle; that her changelings aren't starving, and are just strategically invading Equestria instead of literally crawling on their knees, snapping their jaws at it.

2966240 I never clearly understood: are you an alien lizard man, a trans-dimensional reptilian being, or some sort of member of an ancient, magic pre-human race?

2966223 Yes, but in the comics the Cats(I don't remember their names) live in a small village on the way to Equestria, how could the Changelings miss them.

The voice actress for Chrysalis also voiced Trixie. The Trixie toy has an invitation to the Royal Wedding.

Technically Chrysalis was invited to the wedding.

2966253 Maternal Instinct by Magic Man

Chrysalis saw the invasion as making her mark on history, the "Great Achievement" of her reign.

Peace at Last, by me

Chrysalis attacked after getting Emotion Sickness, caused by feeding on too much pure love, making her slightly crazy enough to do it

2966260 A little combination of all three.

2966253

It's one of the most elusive story topics. "A New Way," the sequel to "Without a Hive" might be going somewhat down that route.

And yes, kidnapping, unlawful imprisonment, torture/deprivation, identity fraud, mind control, unlawful access to restricted areas, assault, attempted slavery, attempted regicide, government overthrow, terrorization, and probably a host of war crimes do not paint a pretty picture. (I'm sure I'm missing some actual crimes/names) That she took so much pleasure specifically from the suffering of the ponies says even more about her.

2966321 My own story, Peace at Last, and Magic Man's "Maternal Instinct" avoid the whole "starving" angle. Sure, "Maternal Instinct" does have a starving changeling nation, but that's because the rice and other crops the changelings grow can't support the population, but that isn't the reason for the invasion

2966312 pre-human reptilian being from an alternate earth/earth-like planet?

2965971
Let's see what the transcripts say...

as queen of the changelings, it is up to me to find food for my subjects.

Finding food, okay. Never once is "starving" mentioned.

My fellow changelings will be able to devour so much of it that we will gain more power than we have ever dreamed of!

So she's a power-hungry mad lady.

Don't want to go back to the caves, now do you?

[sarcasm]That can't be evil at all...[/sarcasm] if she wants to send them back to the caves and possibly to another part where they wouldn't know the way to escape.

First, we take Canterlot. And then, all of Equestria!

Again, power-hungry mad lady.

You can run, but you can't hide!

Most common usage of this quote: someone is trying to kill someone. Not quite here since this is TV-Y, I believe, but the intent of overpowering with intent of defeating is quite apparent here.

Twilight here was suspicious of my behavior all along. Too bad the rest of you were too caught up in your wedding planning to realize those suspicions were correct!

Probably the most telling: Chrysalis calls out Twilight's attempts to warn that fake!Cadence's behavior were strange. If Chrysalis wasn't evil, she might not have acted the way she did and Twilight may not have caught on that she was there.

Everypony I'll soon control
Every stallion, mare, and foal
Who says a girl can't really have it all?

Third time of power-hungry mad lady.

It's all over!

Said when basically gloating about how Shining and Cadence can't possibly do anything and the mane 6 can't even reach the elements... which have defeated two mad gods thus far.

Cadence: My love will give you strength.
Chrysalis: What a lovely but absolutely ridiculous sentiment.

...I don't even know if I need to add anything here.

That's as far as the transcripts go, but there's something more: tone. The tone in which all of this is stated is not someone who's coming in peace. Chrysalis has three statements in her short time of dialogue that would indicate her as a power-hungry mad lady, made even more apparent when the tone in her voice is that of gloating and condescension. This isn't just trying to find food, but a full-scale invasion and attack.

And what about her behavior? Sucking the love out of things, controlling others through magic and love... sounds like a succubus to me. And what does a succubus do? Suck the life out of someone through love until they're nothing more than a husk, which looks a bit like what happened to Shining Armor by the time Cadence and Twilight returned from the caves. Oh, and they're also usually portrayed as a sort of demon. Like, what would be from Equestria's equivalent of Tartarus/hell.

Even if you want to make the animal argument, how are those usually portrayed? Most of what animals we see that are wild are 1) feral, 2) vicious, 3) easily angered, 4) violent, 5) quick to attack, 6) generally considered a threat to ponies. Chrysalis and the changelings fit all six of those.

And, of course, is the IDW, comics, where she plans to turn Twilight Sparkle against her friends and presumably kills a cat in front of the CMC.

2965971
The angle I've gone with is that they live their lives in secrecy. Their greatest defense is never showing their true selves, and by this I don't mean their true forms; I mean their true personalities. Their behavior is just as much a mask and an act as their transformations. Even when they're in their true form they are always playing a part; hiding their weaknesses behind masks of false personalities. Because of this; how they behave where others may see is almost never who they really are.

2966390 If by 'pre-human' you mean 'species that has been around for a longer period of time than humankind and, therefore, has had more time to evolve' then yes, you are 100% correct my good sir/madam.

2966440 Sir. the "Prince" should have indicated. then again, my Half-Sister, Quasimodo, prefers to be called Prince

2965971 The problem with Chrysalis is that she is an unknown. We know nothing about the changelings since they haven't been brought back since the season two finale and so to say whether or not Chrysalis is evil is debatable.

I withhold my judgment until further evidence is presented.

2966219

love bomb

>changelings feed on love
>let's blow them up with love
/mlpwriters

2966240

kinda like you humans, actually.

Leave pls #auspergers

2966496 Yes, what delicious irony

Like killing a fat person with McDonalds

2965971

Celestia and Cadence really have no reason to hate her other than the fact that she tried to take over Equestria

Do you even read what you're typing before you post it?
Most people would think that's plenty of reason in and of itself.

2966123 You mean the map that's actually shown up in the show itself now?

2966690 also, there's the thing where Chrysalis stole her identity, was about to steal her fiance just because she could, forced her under a cave, manipulated several other ponies, which may or may not include Celestia and the mane 6 (depending on how loosely you define the term).

And don't even get me started on the implications of what Chryssy did with Shining while she was Cadance and while he was mind f*cked

2966993

That's the one. It's not to scale, so there's that...

2967049 As you said, the show itself can't make up it's mind how far Canterlot is from Ponyville. Sometimes it's implied being an overnight trip via train to Canterlot, at others a newbie flier like Twilight can make the trip in one go.