Need Dash of Humanity Feedback: Possible rewrite of Trilogy? · 1:36am Sep 9th, 2021
I need feedback.
I've been doing a lot of re-reading and looking at older stories, especially ones left incomplete like Dash of Humanity 3, and I need some people to bounce ideas off of. It turns out, I've always hated Dash of Humanity 3 and it's sorta like my "Game of Thrones Season 8". And I've always wanted to fix it. But I have no idea how...
First off, I'm thinking of calling a mulligan and completely re-doing Dash of Humanity 3, and possibly revisions on DoH 2 from about Chapter 10 onwards (to fix declining quality due to outside factors)
Can you leave some comments to help me figure out what to do? Here's some example questions stumping me:
- Did you stop reading Dash of Humanity 2 due to inconsistent quality?
- Did you stop reading Dash of Humanity 3 due to the Soarin - Sexual Abuse arc?
- Would you be interested enough in a Do-Over on the 3rd story to start reading again?
- If yes, Would you prefer a Comedy Slice of Life? Would Dark still be acceptable if it was handled better or off-screen (i.e. a time skip instead of a trial, telling instead of showing violence)?
Basically, I've re-read the trilogy and for I suppose 7 years now I've felt like Dash of Humanity 3 was this horrible writer's block of poor decisions that's stopped me from writing in a universe I love, but I don't know how to fix it. And since it's been 7 years, I don't have anyone to bounce ideas off of so it's a little harder to run a few "what if I did X" scenarios past them :)
And each time I come back from a "hiatus", I quickly get stumped over how to fix this mess, get discouraged, and leave again. So help is greatly appreciated.
I was thinking something like BronyWriter's TD-Verse, where if I can just get a solid Trilogy out, then I can explore as few or many stories as I want in a universe with Dawn and the Mane Six (including all the seasons of the show that happened after I wrote the original.)
So thanks in advance for any advice. It's my hope that I can do more than just "wrap up incomplete story with rushed endings" but stick around for a while writing *new* things and becoming a good writer again.
It's honestly been so long I don't remember which story it happened in, but I recall I dropped the story when Soarin kidnapped the MC. Imho, the reasons to turn Dawn into a mare were already feeling increasingly contrived, and Sorin's complete heel turn from an alright guy in the first one to an insane rapist was just too much. And then Fluttershy coming in to reimpregnate? Frankly, that whole thing was weird as hell. If you did a redo I might pick it up, and I think leaning into comedy/slice of life would be better as I recall those parts were overall better. Darkish could be fine, but if it ever got that dark again I would almost certainly drop it.
5579793
Thanks for sharing all the different parts that felt disconnected and contrived.
I still haven't figured out what I was thinking back then. But I did find some comments indicating how the disconnect began at Chapter 10 of DoH 2 when all the characters started acting OOC, and Dawn used being human as a weapon to break Soarin and Dash up. So I think that's where I started down the wrong path.
I was thinking of not villainizing Soarin, then the new 3rd story could be about Dash and Dawn starting a family, or anything from the like 6 seasons of the show that happened after the story was written. And no more Dark tag, unless that's something people really wanted to see.
5579797
I think that sounds like it would work much better.
I never found time for three but excuse me what Soarin sexual abuse arc? Also yes I loved the first 2 pls more.
5579802
Yeah so for the 3rd story I wanted to do a story about Dawn dealing with PTSD, Depression, starting a family with Dash and Fluttershy, and learning to be happy as a mare... on top of having Soarin's baby after he kidnapped her and impregnated her.
For some reason it wasn't popular... but I was young and stupid, and now I'm old and bored, and I want to fix it to not have any of those things. Well, maybe learning to be happy as a mare, that's like the one part of the story that wasn't sharp enough to shave with.
I remember you were one of the many HiEs where it was all Discord's fault, but were you one of the ones who killed him? Because that would make some of the later stuff much trickier...
so, I actually recently reread the series out of nostalgia.
I actually liked both the first and second stories. The first was a very interesting story about identity and what it means to be an individual. a very existential idea.
The second felt like a good slice of life romance comedy though I remember feeling the Sorin's jealousy and rage escalated in unrealistic ways near the end. I think an ending with the same results could be achieved with less edge. The biggest issue I had with book 2 was how disconnected the continued Identity crisis was from the main plot. I feel like I if it was ever discussed even in passing it could be used to build the relationship/s and develop character in was that acheave a similar ending while avoiding the more contrived nature of Sorin's aggression.
I remember when I first started with book 3 I was shocked by just how dark of a turn things took. Id been expecting a near continuation of tone from book two at least at the beginning but instead the 'in media res' take was effectively a slap to the face. I continued because of.. well... I was still coming to terms with being trans and treating stories like it as an outlet.
My recent second reading has it in a different light. The heel turn of Sorin from aggressive jerk ex to crazy town breaks suspension of disbelief. The contrived nature of the circumstances behind Dawn's rescue, and the entrance of Fluttershy is... wishful? it reads like a bad clopfic.
The more pressing issue I have with the story is the treatment of PTSD that comes later. It's not actually bad at first but it feels inconsistent and rather blase about the lack of professional introvention.
Add on top of that the inconsistency of tone when dealing with the identity crisis Dawn is having via a dream...
The most concise way to say it would be that the storytelling is confused. There is a real conflict between the themes approached and the tone and means by which they are addressed.
hopefully my input at least provides some perspective.
5579806
Yeah, I did kill Discord. It'd pretty much have to be an Alternate Universe that had no Discord. But it could still have all the other villains, anti-heros, etc... from the 6 or so seasons that came out after I wrote the original.
(though I did have a story idea to create an elements of chaos to bring him back, but he was way beyond reforming. I'm not sure how badly his absence would break continuity in the story.)
5579807
Thanks it's very good input,
I think you've provided a good list of things to go back and work on. I'll probably do another read-through of the chapters with your points in mind to find all the areas that need revisions. I think the problems started a lot earlier than I thought, even re-reading this week I saw a lot that didn't make sense to me now that I can see the story more objectively.
Honestly, I didn’t remember too much of this trilogy until I read some of the comments here, since it’s been a hot minute since I last read any of it. Every now and again I’d see it on the side while browsing, and wondering if the third part would be continued or revised.
What I definitely remember experiencing was an unexpected tone shift and a writer with a vision for the future who chose one of the easier and quicker roads to get there — with unsurprising results, quality-wise. It’s quite common for writers to want something that’s complicated or demanding, or both, and are willing to take shortcuts just to make it happen instead of getting stuck or abandoning their vision. I did that when I first started writing, myself.
I’d have to re-read the second part to give an opinion on whether you should bother touching it or not, but currently I’d opt to put that decision aside until you know what you want the third part to be, considering how long you’ve had trouble doing anything with the trilogy in any way. Take it one step at a time and try not to overwhelm yourself. In fact, I’d suggest considering doing less with the third part, because I think one of its problems was you were trying to do too much. For example, if you still wanted Dawn to come to terms with being a mare, having a relationship with Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy (or both), and having her be pregnant, the third part could cover the first thing and work on the second, and a fourth part would finish the second and cover the third.
One thing I can suggest is finding one or more people to help you find your way to where you want to go, as a sort of quality control. People you can bounce ideas off of at various stages of development, who might ask questions that might reveal an issue with it, if not point out anything obvious, but not tell you/intimate what they want the story to be. Should you be open to that suggestion, I’m willing to offer my input.
I am always in favour of letting fanfic authors redo their work. Its perfectly fine to realize in the middle of something that you dun goofed a while ago, and to want to change that. So if you wanna redo something? Have at it. Just drop a post when you reupload.
I stopped reading because there wasn't any more to read. So, no.
I wasn't exactly happy with that idea, but if you had an idea to explore I was still willing to see you tinker away at it.
Given how long its been since I read any of the stories, I'd hafta reread them in order to have any stakes in a reworking of the third story. So, a tentative yes. I'd just have to give things I'd been putting off first.
Generally, I am not a fan of slice of life. I either need it done in an interesting way (like, narrated as if it were a nature documentary or the slice of life of cyberpunk robots, etc. Sitcoms bore and annoy me.) or for there to be a red thread of an actual plot going through the SOL stuff.
As for dark stuff? Well, my feelings on that is pretty much in the execution, but as a rule I prefer to have dark things on the page rather than in the implication. Why bother having it at all if you aren't comfortable dealing with it?
Of course, its perfectly fine to just nix the idea of a trilogy altogether, and then put work into making the two stories both stand on their own even better and flesh out the world a bit better. Trilogies are really just a marketing tool. In film, the one we most think of is star wars, but its clear as day to see where the story went from "one and done, with backstory to flesh things out" to "fuck yeah, I got a new movie and another on the way!", and in writing I'd say the one that stands out the most is the Lord of the Rings, but that was actually intended to only be one book before the publisher said that it way too big for that. If you got a solid base that you want to spin off from, it doesn't matter how many stories you told to get it.
Did you stop reading Dash of Humanity 2 due to inconsistent quality?
DoH 2 was great. I never noticed a decline in quality.
Did you stop reading Dash of Humanity 3 due to the Soarin - Sexual Abuse arc?
I caught up in DoH 3 when it was released. But, when I reread it awhile ago, I couldnt finish 3. It seemed very slow paced, and honestly I wasnt liking the way it was turning out. Dawns character was completely different, and the whole impregnation just didnt seem interesting as the story went on. Obviously Dawns character changed due to a truamatic incident, which is understandable. The whole soarin turning psycho seemed far fetched.
Would you be interested enough in a Do-Over on the 3rd story to start reading again?
I most certainly would.
If yes, Would you prefer a Comedy Slice of Life? Would Dark still be acceptable if it was handled better or off-screen (i.e. a time skip instead of a trial, telling instead of showing violence)?
My biggest thing with 3 was Soarin suddenly turning insane. Im not suggesting to take out the dark aspect of the story. Just, what if things played out a little differently? For example, what if Soarin got shit faced one day, and had his way with Dawn? I was gonna suggest even Rainbow being the victim. What would Dawn do to Soarin? But that would be quite a change.
Just an example.
I read the first 2 so long ago the details are fuzzy, but I have never read the 3rd story, mostly because it's not complete, and I wait for stories to get laden with lots of words first before binge reading. But The idea of a rewrite for the 3rd story excites me. It would force me to reread the first two stories again!
Side note, you can always write the dark sections, but offer people a skip past it if they aren't into that kinda thing, like some writers do for sex scenes.
I stopped due to point 2, I tried to push through it but found that the humor and characters bouncing off each other that I like so much in the original and most of 2 just wasn’t really the focus anymore.
I would be fine with reading a rewrite if you do decide to do one. I would be ok if you did want to have 4, but would prefer the time skip if you have to do so over the whole crazy rapist stuff.
5579804
I think you can never have too many male to female stories so the part about him learning to be happy as a mare is a greate idea and the part about learning to be a pregnant mare? There are not very many stories that have them oc become pregnant after becoming female.
Just saw this and I'll say this first, I need to reread the stories. That said the only reason I stopped reading 3 was the lack of chapters, I was in it to see what you would do with it. If you want to scrap it and go in a different direction then I'm cool with that. If you want someone to bounce ideas off and/or give feedback, DM me.
Edit: just to clarify I would be interested in reading a re-do of 3 wherever you decide to take the story.
As long as the original isn't deleted or overwritten, I will be happy.
Thanks for the feedback.
5580175
I only want to replace the 3rd, which will require changing the second a bit. And if I'm changing the second might as well make the changes not suck. The original seems perfect like it is.
5579897
I couldn't think of any where male HiE becomes a pregnant female either, but I have no idea how to do that without some ham-fisted plot devices. Maybe it'd be better as a spin-off after resolving the 2nd story.
5579896
I miss that too, apparently I added an epilogue to show some of that and then I looked back and realized it was mostly a poorly thought out depression arc for like 5 chapters. It'd be more fun to just have them hanging out and Dawn being a smart-ass. I was thinking a longer Iron Pony arc so they could spend some time together.
Thanks for the feedback
5579871
I was thinking of how to drive the plot forward without some challenge or necessary character growth, usually that's something dark for me. And how to do it in a way that doesn't feel like it's optional is a challenge. Lots of ideas just none that I'm in love with yet.
5579854
Yeah I may just wait until I re-watch the show and the upcoming movie and figure out what to do with the 3rd story, because I can't really do anything with the second until I know if I'm ending it with the 2nd story, or trying to flow naturally into a 3rd.
Thanks for the feedback.
5579857
I think your point you made is why I made the 3rd so dark. I've never done much slice of life because it doesn't feel like anything's happening unless there's tragedy, grimdark, explosions, etc... so I went too far. I suppose the question is how to make a sufficient challenge to drive the plot forward and overcome, but keep it slice of life enough to give the people who read the stories a bit of a breather from all the action and stuff that went on.
5579858
I was thinking of something similar, Soarin could get drunk, could be a worse fight between them, could be a kidnapping, poison joking, or asylum... but since I did like 10 bad things at once it was just contrived as heck. I guess the hard part is figuring out after so long the appropriate amount of it to write a follow up story with, without ruining the universe the story is written in.
5580179
What I mean is that it would be prefered for you to keep the old versions of the stories up, rather than overwrite them. Original means before the rewrite, not the first story.
5580189
Oh, thanks now I see what you mean. I was planning to do that, I just have to look into it a bit. I'm sure they can be left published and just un-link the sequels and link it to the new stories. There may be some rule about "how revised it has to be" to be posted as a new story that I should look into.
First off, the stories aren't bad. DoH3 even has its own draws and I have stuck with it as far as you've written, and am invested to see where it might go.
That said, the decline in quality is real. I feel like DoH1 was, is, and always will be the best, and it's the themes and ideas in that story which are what I loved about the series most. That whole concept of Dawn being trapped in another pony's body and having to deal with the repurcussions (with mild Slice-of-Life, but nothing to get in the way of the drama and the drive of the story which is his desire to get back home and, later, adjust to Equestrian society) is what made the original story so great.
With that regard, I consider Sourin' to be more of a distraction from that original direction. Both Sourin' and Dawn's troubles due to his actions. They're good, but I just feel like they're missing that core that was present in the first story.
That's why, in my opinion, a return to form would be the perfect way to carry on the series' legacy. Maybe have the roles swapped, and Dawn has to help somepony else in the same situation he was in, or something else that builds on the initial mechanics of the original story.
Maybe whatever new character is introduced could turn out to be evil, or the cause behind Saurin's seemingly deranged behaviour? Imagine finding out that his actions weren't really his own all along, and it was because of some other entity that had been esikai'd into Saurin's head the same way that had happened to Dawn.
Those are just my suggestions, though. Whatever you do end up writing, I'm sure I'll enjoy it regardless.
P.S I once had a spin-off idea that I would have called Dash of Pinkie. Same idea, but imagine being smashed together with Pinkie Pie's off-brand version of crazy.
5580225
Thanks for the feedback.
You know, I've always wondered about doing a dash of humanity for another one of the ponies. I mean, if the original formula is good and did things other stories did not, then it only makes sense to revisit it with another pony?
I guess there were always other fires to put out though. Maybe now that I'm back after so long is the perfect time to pick up new projects? Plus I only wrote during season 1-4, so I have so many seasons left to explore. I think for fun I'll consider another variation of dash of humanity today. Step 1: find an antagonist that isn't Discord
(Btw shattered prism was my first attempt at the concept but I took the advice of editors not to shoehorn it in, but start a separate story specifically for HiE. I am planning an epilogue for that story since it doesn't show the repercussions of the protagonist's choices. You might find it interesting while you wait for more DoH stuff.)
5580286
Thanks! I'll add it to my reading list. I look forward to seeing what you create. It sounds like you already have some very interesting direction.
5580292
Ideas and outlining are the fun parts, writing is the work part. I'm glad to have gotten so many comments though, writing is really hard in a vacuum.
It has been years since I've read the stories, so I can't speak for the direction the *quality* took throughout the series run, as my memory of it isn't 100% crystal clear, but I actually really liked the idea of addressing Dawn dealing with the consequences of becoming pregnant. And I like really dark things, so having it be the result of rape never bothered me. The character derailment of Soarin' was always the sticking point with me, though.
I would love to see another attempt at exploring the same idea (Dawn being pregnant), but with a different framing. There are a couple other HiE stories that deal with a man becoming a mare and subsequently getting pregnant (you've written one, even, if I recall), but I can't think of any that do so while still trying to treat it as a serious story instead of fetish fuel. I don't think the above suggestion of Soarin' getting drunk would be a good compromise, though, as Soarin's character already was pretty far off of canon. I would probably introduce another character for the 'father' figure.
That said, even if you'd continued DoH3 as an imperfect story, I probably would have still loved it. DoH3 is in my top ten 'stories that stopped updating that I wish would get finished some day'.
So, I re-read the second part, to see if there was a flaw so fatal in the latter half that a rewrite of that section would be required. Conclusion: there wasn't. Apart from a couple of inconsistencies toward the end, and possibly some clarification so a doofus like me can understand what's going on with one thing (any of which I'm willing to go into detail about if asked), the story starts and finishes all the things it set out to do.
That said, my advice is to leave the story intact (aside from some fixes) and to not change it for the sake of the third part. Because you'll need the whole thing to maintain its integrity, unless you're willing to sacrifice a vast majority of it to make it a different story. The only exception is the second epilogue, which is basically just a teaser for the sequel.
Doh1 and 2 was good but Doh3 was kind if bad
Mainly beacuse rape, inconcystancy and generally story changed from comedy and slice of life to egdy and boring
It has been many many years since I read Dash of Humanity as I was following it at release, I definitely enjoyed the series and I cant really offer criticism I just want to say I'm glad that you wanted to pick it back up and I will read it regardless of the direction you take
5581038
Agreed, I may just drop DoH 3 and do it over with an entirely different story, since the feedback is that DoH2 had flaws but it okay. And it may be better to move forward than spend a long time trying to tweak the second story, unless the fixes are small.
5580646
Thanks, yeah I think there's some inconsistencies that could be minor fixes. Did any stand out as in need of clarification, or paced too fast?
5580342
I was thinking I could have a slice of life about Dawn and Dash when she gives birth, then them wanting to have another kid but Dash doesn't want to go through that again so Dawn volunteers... something like that could explore the pregnancy in HiE theme in a much more positive way. But that would not flow well in the 3rd story, so it'd be more of a 5th or 6th story... plus would Fluttershy still fit into the relationship in any realistic, feasible way?
I also want to do a darker story but I can take that in different directions, like have Soarin do some not so over-the-top revenge but that still allows a darker story, since I enjoy dark stuff too. I've just got to write shorter, more focused stories, and tackle one interesting arc at a time.
5581083
5581132
There aren't any pacing issues, as far as I've noticed. Now, let's see if I can remember the things that stood out to me, be they problems or something in need of clarification... (I should have written these down when they were fresh in my mind.)
The first one is when Rainbow Dash says she waited for Dawn to visit her after she cooled down, but either that is contradicted by Fluttershy's account (saying Rainbow Dash was working all the extra shifts she could, even going so far as to find work outside of Ponyville; which Fluttershy is saying well after the two days Dawn tried to talk to Rainbow Dash, and appears to be avoidant behavior long after the fact), or Rainbow Dash was unreasonable both in how long it took her to cool down and then in expecting Dawn to come around for a visit long after she made him give up. Whatever is going on, it makes it hard to believe that, during this time, Rainbow Dash is also putting time aside to help her friends understand what Dawn is going through (as told by Twilight Sparkle).
The second is when Dawn apologized to Rainbow Dash for lying about hearing voices, which I was convinced actually happened, either as a direct effect of the poison joke or not. Unless he faked it so well that he deluded himself, to the point that he somehow beat the time of a seasoned Wonderbolt and the highly-talented Rainbow Dash at the obstacle course.
The third is about the pregnancy, because it's treated as a minor issue even though Rainbow Dash's body was in heat at the time and it's been demonstrated that ponies can smell the pheromones and identify what it is. I mean, unless Rainbow Dash wanted Soarin's child, and was willing to go this far for it, he clearly took advantage of her on top of taking no precaution (unless the clop chapter says differently; I haven't read it). Either that, or I just wasn't expecting Rainbow Dash to be so okay, maybe even happy, with being pregnant, since I'd assume that has repercussions regarding her Wonderbolt aspirations, which is no small thing to her.
I think those were the only things I thought might need to be addressed in some way.
If you're open to hearing ideas for the third part, I had one while re-reading for the stuff I wrote above. I felt I should offer it because it fits several aspects of what you seem to be wanting to write, it still features Soarin, and it builds on certain events in the first and second story. I can share it in a PM just in case it ends up being usable, or inspires something different, so no one gets spoiled.
5581194
Good feedback, and feel free to send me a PM. I try to write down every idea so I don't forget, and have time to think about all of them. I can add yours and see if some good story arcs come from it.
While I can't say anything about the third one, since I haven't read it yet, I certainly did enjoy the first two a good amount. I certainly wouldn't say no if you did.
That being said, I also wouldn't mind it if you went back and changed a few things. Like how Dash and him were constantly fighting for control of the body. That got annoying VERY quickly. Why not just have them be two separate individuals?
But as I said, if you do decide to revise the story, I won't complain!
Honestly, I haven't read 1 & 2 in years so I'm going off distant memory here. I remember enjoying the back and fourth between Dawn and Rainbow Dash, and would be keen for more.
1. I only stopped reading Dash of Humanity 2 when it finished
2. I didn't start Dash of Humanity 3, since I tend to wait till Stories are done. So I can read the whole thing back to back, I've been waiting for years
3. I remember really enjoying Dash of Humanity 1 & 2, and would be keen for a do over if it helps you to get past this block and finish the next one. I've honestly been keen to continue for years.
4. Honestly, I wouldn't mind either way, however I don't know if I'd be keen for a massive tone shift if it went down the super dark path. I don't recall 1 or 2 being super dark, and I feel like it might be a bit jarring to switch, then again I think if anyone could do it well, you probably could.
I like the idea of just getting a solid trilogy out, and then working on side stories from there. Gives freedom to move around, and work on ideas as they strike, whether they turn out short or long.
If you do go back and start re-writing though, I'll vote for keeping the originals up just under a old label or something. It's always pained me when people remove the original, since there are people who have enjoyed them, and it feels like a waste to just purge them.
I think I'll go back and re-read 1 & 2, since it's been a while and they've always sat in my pile of favorites.
Looking forward to whatever you write next!
5588477
Thanks for the feedback. I've been thinking about this a lot lately to get a solid trilogy and free Dawn up to have some short stories.
I have an idea for how to to do a new 3rd story for the trilogy, and started writing. It won't be dark like the old one, but a return to form (comedy, bit of an adventure and a bit of slice of life)
For the second story, I was thinking of revising Ch 10-13 to change the argument and how Dawn's revealed to Soarin. Then adding two chapters between 10-13 to slow down the sudden "race to the ending" of the story.
I'm not sure how long revisions would take, and I'm not thinking they'd be major, but I won't know until I actually revise it. And then I would probably link to the original unedited story. I think all of that could wait until the 3rd story is further along though.
If you re-read it and want to leave another comment with thoughts feel free, it's been so long I had to re-read it too to try and understand where the disconnect was.
I think it happened around chapter 10 of DoH2. It stopped being Dash of Humanity and started being setup for a grimdark sequel.
i'd love to see a rewrite but i'd also love for story three to be finished XD
5588638
Been a while, but I finally got around to coming back to giving them both a re-read so I have some fresher thoughts.
From my last comment, my thoughts haven't really changed much. I really enjoyed both 1 & 2, and pretty much couldn't stop reading once I started.
I do think you're right in that it started to shift around chapter 10, though I will say leading up to and including the iron pony competition, it feels like Soarin's aggressiveness accelerated super quick. So I wouldn't mind if there was a bit of expansion in that area, which would slow down the "race to the end" side, and also build a bit more on why Soarin is so threatened by Dawn. Like it just felt like there was a huge jump from DoH1 to DoH2, which I'm fine with, but I would like to know a bit more about why the jump happened.
Basically, if there was a bit more given as to why Soarin shifted so much from DoH1 to DoH2, I think it would work better.
I also think it did kind of run right through the whole Discord cave bit, that was something that felt like it wrapped up really quickly.
I still think they're both great stories, and it's nice to see that the first stories I read on this site still hold up.