Oct
14th
2018
Research question! · 12:03pm Oct 14th, 2018
Hey, I've been looking online, and it's kinda hard to find, but how does one go about cutting through steel bulkheads in the vacuum of space? For this next chapter, I want to show the humans using their equipment to get to Yavaar. Now, I know that the Quzin would have a way to do it, but I wanted to show human ingenuity here, and assume that they didn't have access to any of the Quzin's cutting tools. I know that you can use arc wielders in space, but that's a little bit different from cutting. Could you use an arc wielder to cut, rather than wield together? thought I'd ask, to see if any of my followers knew.
Edit: Nevermind. I'll probably just have them use grinders or something.
The first thing that comes to mind is a plasma cutter, but I'm not entirely sure that would work.
There is a tool called a plasma cutter that uses an electric arc to cut steel. If you have them use it, remember to have them clamp on, because the cutter would provide a pushing force away from what they're cutting.
4952974 ty for the info man. Wasn't entirely sure, since it's really not my area of expertise.
A plasma cutter is certainly the way to go. The electric arc instantly heats the metal to a critical temperature, then a thin stream of pressurized oxygen oxidizes the metal and pushes the result out the other side leaving a very clean cut.
Truthfully, any metal cutting technique would work in space, as the are mostly independent of environmental considerations or the effects of gravity.
I think the plasma cutter is the way to go, it's less dangerous than a grinder (as the operator don't have to manupulate a spinning cutting wheel while inside of a extravehicular mobility unit)
A plasma cutter/welding torch like the one the Colonial Marines use.
Oh, like in Space Engineers!? :-D (Don't mind the emoticon, I felt like being a little silly this morning (and it's barely 9 o'clock) )
i can think of a few 'rough' ways:
diamond edge grinder is one.
use a friction welder machine to make a hole then a cutting claw similar to what the firefighters use for car crashes.
a high powered pulse laser. (although i am unsure about the machine size or power output required.)
these are the only ones i can think of at the moment.
4952996
Oh, a Jaws of Life would be interesting!
You could just use a high powered cutting torch as rhey have their own oxygen supply so they can burn in space
4952997
for the life of me i could not think of the device name, thank you.
The aforementioned plasma cutter is the best option if you care about what’s on the othside of what you’re cutting through.
If you do not care, I’d recommend a TOW missle. Much faster.
Then there is demolition tape, or simply making a circle with C4 and detonating it.
There is also a special mixture used underwater, I don't remember the name of it, but it is basically a rope you arrange in the shape you want, then set it off. It burns at a temperature well in excess of what steel melts at. After about a second, the cut plate simply falls out.
And, of course, laser.
And there's The Breachpen
Actually, a grinder would be the last thing you'd want to use because it will create particulate matter that will mess with satellites. There's already a problem with there being too much garbage in orbit.
I would assume that it would be similar to cutting into a pressurized submarine, under water. Research into that should give you some ideas.
Biggest issues would be explosive decompression, along with high speed refuse shot gunning at you because of said decompression. I know little about such things, but I would suggest docking a pressurized work area against the hull. Equalizing the pressure beside both bulkheads to prevent decompression. pilot hole to verify equalization. then standard cutting methods. Simple, logical, easy/cheap to implement.
The Monk
“To say that Twilight Sparkle went bugfuck would be like saying the Incredible Hulk had some mild anger management issues.” -DustTraveller
Sadly I haven't been able to keep up with the other stories I've been following because Im kind of stuck listening to a really long one. Been listening to this dam thing for three solid weeks and I'm only a little over half way through with it. (177 freaking chapters)
From your question, sounds like a military style snatch and grab. So I would say they would do it how they took bunkers in WWII. "Breach, Frag Gernade, Take and secure Foothold, Search and Clear. " If SWAT rather than military, The frag would be replaced with Flash-Bang." Rinse and repeat.
The Monk
“To say that Twilight Sparkle went bugfuck would be like saying the Incredible Hulk had some mild anger management issues.” -DustTraveller
4953042 No snatch and grab. Their getting Yavaar out of his damaged station. It's not a break in so much as it is a rescue.
Yheah... plasma's the way to go if you're trying for a clean cut with less waste.
Other options include things like induced flux melting, various cutters (which almost universally end up with debris), pressure cutters (which require a VERY stable rack and no concern for what's on the other side.... yes, they do cut through that too most of the time), or brute force.
Alternately, a carefully mapped enzyme ~could~ weaken the material in a given pattern, allowing internal pressure to simply push the breach out. That, of course, tends to weaken a somewhat unpredictable area around the breech though, which is why it's really only used for forced entry situations where time is not an issue, but surprise is. But in space? Yheah... not a good option.
Or... like some folks mentioned... if you don't care about the thing you're cutting in to, just use a nice guided rocket.
Or^2, ignore the bulkhead... those things are hard for a reason, and go through a nearby wall. It's like in old fortresses, the doors were the weak points... but these days, folks like making doors stronger but forget to reinforce the door frame or surrounding walls. Giant foot thick door with hardened electronic security measures... and a bathroom with plaster walls and public access next to it.
This applies to how it's sealed as well... a properly prepared locked door can survive a tank, but a thin strip of metal can slide through and flip the lock. The 10 cent cure seems to be the weakness of most high end systems. Folks become overconfident or simply don't know how something works and don't plan for the simple, mundane, and basic tactics to work. Heat sensors can be tricked with compressed gas (canned air dusters do this if inverted), IR readers can be copied from meters away, keys can be faked or "bump picked", and biometrics tend to only read on 2 axis allowing for photocopies or even oil stains to bypass them. Bio data can be obtained from shaking hands or picking up a used cup, and even optical scanners can be bypassed by shorting the lock system and ignoring them fully.
If they are on the station with artificial gravity, any "normal" method would work since torches and plasma lances provide their own gas. The amount might have to be adjusted for vacuum conditions, but shouldn't be hard. The real danger would be molten slag burning a hole in the space suits. An electric circular saw would be much better but you'll need a strong and long lasting power supply. Batteries won't last long enough.
If in microgravity, your opperator will need to be anchored. Any method will create kickback. Molten slag will be even more an issue since it will blow anywhere the gasses take it instead of falling. Pooling in the cut and re-welding as it cools will also be an issue without gravity to make it flow. Again, a circular saw is probably a better option if you can power it.
As a side note, molten metal is non-magnetic. You won't be able to collect slag except by physically grabbing it with something until it cools. And without atmospheric convection that could take a while.
Microgravity or not, my suggestion would be to have a robot with a cutting wheel on an arm. Keep those clumsy and meltable space suits away from the action.
what about using thermite? that doesn't need oxygen from the air to burn it just needs the oxygen from the rust in its composition, then have yavaar extend a magic field near the thermite so Valarie can use her control of magic to hold the flames in place and not fly into space?
4953087
Agreed. Unless you have a spray fitting and a sweeper to collect the molten bits, don't let sensitive things like living beings be anywhere nearby in micro/no-gravity.
Wow... um...
Actually I have a legit answer on how it HAS been done previously. Very dangerously, but a literal factual, historical event.
And it sounds sci-fi.
The Soviets used an electron gun. A hand-held electron gun... for both cutting and welding.
1984 on the Salyut 7 Space Station. They also had the issue of cold welding since it was done in space, but it did cut enough to allow for the work to be done ultimately.
So... yheah. I'm still saying plasma's a better idea... though if the Cosmonauts could pull it off over 30 years ago, I'm pretty sure more recent tech could be modified to work.
4953092
why do russians get the fun stuff?
4953051
The big question is pressurization. From the sounds of things they don't need pressure on the inside, so the first step is going to be venting whatever atmosphere there is along with any gas or fluid lines to avoid a blowout.
After that, the solution depends on the construction of the walls. If these are lightly built structures like our space stations a small cutting wheel is probably your best bet since it'll go through a thin wall fast (speed is important due to air supply limits) and will be flexible enough to deal with any other obstacles like wiring. On the other hand, if one or more wall is a thickly built they're going to want to take a page out of the military and police forcible entry playbook by using a flexible linear shaped charge to blow a doorway through the heavily built wall with minimum time and carried weight.
4953094
I know, right? With our luck, they'll be the first with ponies.
Oh wait... the Sweetie bot project is being made by Russians. DANGIT!
4953092
Explosives are much more widely used in space (rocket staging) and weigh very little which is why I suggested that option for anything substantial.
4953094
Because they're crazy and don't have the same view of things like safety and reliability testing modern America does.
4953105
<nods> Oh no question there. I wasn't arguing or anything, I just stumbled across an actual event. Most of the stuff we've been discussing is done or at least possible, but very little of it is more than instance based. More importantly, is the question of applicability to the situation at hand, in which it becomes a question not of "will it work" but of "will it work without extensive damage and the likely death of the person we want to get out?"
Rockets are great and their power to weight ratios are phenomenal (especially in space where drag and fuel/thrust ratios go nuts) but they tend not to be surgical tools.
4953109
Fair enough, and it is an interesting example.
Your point about safety is also why I like explosives since you can use them from an appropriate standoff unlike most of the other options (especially the molten metal options), although nothing is perfect which is why I'd pair it with a small cutting tool.
Lascutters or meltacutters. Some kind of high powered laser projector or a hair dryer full of metal melting space magic.
4953029
This is the comment I was looking for! A strong adhesive bubble of whatever burn resistant material, you get you guys inside the bubble, drill a small hole, and then you can cut with pretty much anything without blowing yourself into space or getting peppered with debris. Bonus, you can extract using a bigger bubble or by having a big 'ol tube with a couple of mostly airtight seals in it that you can reseal. The slag can be dealt with by having an inert gas blower attached to any hot cutting tool to blow the debris into the thing you're cutting, and help cool it down in the process so hopefully you dont board right into a massive fire.
I just thought of something relevant. Yavaar is an AI (or whatever), so his station doesn't need air. Therefore issues related to pressurization can be bypassed easily, right?
4953413 You make a fair point, except that the research outpost used to house actual researchers, in addition to the AI. The place would have been pressurized to accommodate the living staff, and would have continued to be pressurized even after everyone else abandoned the base in preparation of their eventual return. Yes, Yavaar could vent areas, except the damage to his base has left large portions unpowered. Other places are already vented, while some are not, and the unpowered sections make it impossible to tell, or vent, or open the doors without cutting.
This is the problem facing the human rescue crew.
Using grinders in a 0 G environment isnt a good idea. Just go with the thermal entry method, its less likely to send your astronauts flying off into space.
1) create a mix of super-adhesive using one part tree sap, three parts cement, one part water, and one part dues ex machina. Mix it up in a one-quart bag, airtight.
2) place the bag on the wall to breach in space near the edge of the panel or near a support beam or fulcrum of some description.
3) take a long metal rod attached to a pivoting joint and smash the joint onto the bag, flat side towards the wall. The bag bursts, the mix expands, and the water instantly boils off into the vacuum of space drying the mix and permanently bonding the pivoting joint to the surface. Note that the viscosity of the mix was high enough that it didn't splatter your spacesuit.
4) bend the rod over the nearby fulcrum point. As Archimedes said, "Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the Earth" demonstrating the potential of a lever and proper fulcrum. If the rod is thick enough to have greater tensile strength than the wall, the wall will open up like a reverse can opener.
5) detach the rod from the pivoting joint using the previously-not-described pin which was holding it in place, rinse and repeat with a new bag and new pivoting joint until you've made a circle you can kick out.
6) look over your shoulder, say "fuck yeah, humanity!" to whichever alien guest was watching you, and then kick in the wall.
4953448
Once he vents everything he can, the facility as a whole should be fairly thoroughly depressurized. While it's not impossible that there's a room or two somewhere that still has air, the damage required to cut all power and data like that is significantly more than the damage required to crack the pressure seal, especially since there's been enough time for slow leaks to fully (or nearly fully) depressurize unpowered areas.
Also, his knowledge of the facility combined with their external inspection of the damage should be more than enough to identify any compartments that might still be pressurized so they can pop them from a safe distance (ideally around a corner) with a small explosive charge.
One other thing you may want to consider is that firearms do work in space (although the vacuum eats the lubricant so it'll wear the mechanism out faster than the normal thousands of rounds), and the Soviets actually armed a space station back in the day. That means it's possible the boarding team could bring a gun with them if they wanted to, and I can actually see an application for armor piercing rounds in popping suspected air pockets since nothing inside that station should be strong enough to stop a bullet.
Plasma cutter, or if you want something more epic and ironic... drill into it and inject it with water lol.... as soon as the water hits space it will freeze over very violently causing the thing to expand and make any metal lose its flexibility.... efectively making it as hard as glass but also as brittle as glass... and presto... crack your way open with water into a bulkhead.. hehehe.
(P.S. I like to use this dots .... allot ..... )