In Which Moth is SO Incredibly Done With Son Goku · 7:00pm Dec 1st, 2017
So I'm watching episode 47 of Dragonball Super, the start of the Future Trunks saga.
And I had to pause in the middle to bitch to Zef about how fucking DONE I am with Goku.
Moth: .................
Moth: OK I should expect this from Goku
Moth: Really
Moth: But goddammit, this is the last straw with him
Zef: He divorced Chichi to win a fight
Moth: So he's actually been working as a farmer for a while now apparently, and it's time to harvest a huge field of lettuce and carrots.
Moth: He ropes Piccolo into helping with the harvest, and he's ACTUALLY behaving like a responsible husband for once.
Zef: Kakarotto farming carrots!
Moth: Then Kuririn drops in and opens his big mouth about Vegeta being at Beerus' place training.
Zef: ...didn't we already watch that on CN?
Moth: Goku stops right in the middle of harvesting and teleports away still holding a head of lettuce.
Moth: No, that was about 20 episodes back, this is how the Future Trunks/Goku Black arc starts
Zef: Ah
Zef: ...
Zef: So he did it TWICE
Moth: I mean, all Goku had--yep!
Moth: All it took was for him to hear "Vegeta is training with Beerus" and he LITERALLY QUIT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF HARVEST
Moth: I just...
Moth: I'm sorry
Moth: That's it
Moth: Goku is an absolute asshole
Moth: He doesn't MEAN to be one
Moth: But he kind of is
Zef: At one point, when people all around you tell you what your problem is, "childlike naivete and excitability" are no longer excuses.
Moth: Yep
Moth: Hell, Vegeta at least manages to be a decent and loving husband and father
Moth: And he can actually get away with running off at the drop of a hat to train because HIS WIFE IS THE RICHEST WOMAN ON THE PLANET
Moth: Goku has mouths to feed
Moth: Vegeta is a sponge
Zef: XD
Moth: And yet Vegeta STILL manages to not fail at being a husband and father anywhere CLOSE to as hard as Goku
Zef: Hmm
Zef: I honestly don't know if Goku has ever done anything that even resembles the Bingo Dance.
Zef: Veggie Tales Bingo Danced specifically to protect his family.
Zef: Not to "save Earth" or anything like that.
Moth: Yep! See what I mean?
Zef: ANd there's a difference between the noble, heroic fight to save untold and faceless millions, and the intimate sacrifice to save just the one family.
Skip the whole future trunks bull Sh#t. There's nothing there. Seriously.
I was about to stop but powered through and seriously don't even remember but three still frames in my mind.
It was so worthless my brain deleted it.
But it gets better after!
Much.
4739431
Future Trunks is my absolute favorite DBZ character ever, so I won't be skipping his arc in Super, thanks.
4739429
I can only imagine it being about the same as the Majin Buu arc but worse, when that bullshit "I WANNA FIGHT 'EM ALL!" crap of his needlessly and recklessly endangers billions of lives.
4739433
I understand.
This isn't DBZ, but even then I liked Future Trunks arc better there.
If you're not done with this side story then you just don't know the major differences that detract from him and it. No spoilers!
The manga is just... so much better in basically every possible way. It really is a little silly.
Just tell yourself the truth, Moth:
Son Goku may be the central character of Dragon Ball Super, but Vegeta is the hero.
We follow Son Goku, and we get fed up with his shit. But we all know we really want to watch Vegeta, and that's the point. Vegeta is responsible, he understands exactly what is at stake at any given moment in his life, he keeps his promises, he pays attention to those around him, and most importantly, he doesn't dick around when Frieza shows up and threatens to destroy the entire planet if they won't fight him. All of this is exactly the point.
We follow the life and times of Son Goku so that we understand completely why we should aspire to be like Vegeta.
That's what I tell myself, at least. It helps, a little bit.
Strange thing is while Goku is becoming more obsessed with getting stronger like a Saiyan, Vegeta is starting to care more about his family like a human. Role reversal.
4739452
It's more that Vegeta actually matures into a more responsible and pragmatic hero over time, whereas Goku NEvER outgrows the "I WANNA FIGHT THAT GUY NOW!" mentality. But yeah, totally get your point.
Yeah, goku is absolutely in fighting mindset this series. I've honestly stopped watching for the story and keep watching for the fights. Yes, I know that's bad but nostalgia prevents me from dropping it altogether.
Oh boy, something tells me you're gonna despise him just a little more come the start of the Universe Survival Arc.
The only thing I can compliment Goku for at this point is that he's competent when fighting, and that's it.
4739463
Supposedly Goku was always like this in the manga but DBZ changed his character to make him more heroic so going into Super tends to be a bit of shock if you're only really familiar with Z.
4739506
4739507
Goku's ALWAYS been like this. I mean, he's always been 100% obsessed with fighting. His family is always second to fighting the next big fight. That's just who he is. I had just hoped becoming a grandfather and actually having to work to feed his family would mellow him out, but ever since Beerus came along, he's gotten even WORSE.
It’s son goku, what did you expect?
That brain damage of his messed him up in a different way then many think.
Makes one wonder why Chi-chi puts up with him.
Wait...this isn't the Dragonball subreddit
But tbh, Goku is just like this but at the end of the day he still loves his family but just more along the lines of friends, which iirc Toriyama has come out and said the average Saiyan doesn't have strong familial bonds (but he does a fairly redeeming scene later in this arc, but won't spoil it).
4739512
You should watch MasakoX YouTube videos sometime, he does discussion videos about this and it really helps to understand why the series is the way it is. The short version as a close friend of mine put it, Toriyama is a gag comedy writer not a serious Shonen writer, the series has changed beyond what he is capable of writing and he doesn’t want to write either. Basically the company needs to put someone else in full charge of the series if it’s ever going to be the series western fans really want to see.
Personally I'm having a blast with DB Super. XD I'm up to date tho, so maybe that's why. I found the Goku Black arc pretty annoying as it is.
4739552
Mostly because he's almost never there so it's just her and the kids? I mean, for all intents and purposes, she's single/widowed/separated 99% of the time...
4739429
4739433
Hahaha, how I long for the days when it was only billions of lives, and not quadrillions.
I feel like they're attempting to overplay Goku's... er, "Goku-ness", so that his actual character isn't butchered by the dub. Too many people think of Goku as a selfless, noble hero, when in truth he's a totally selfish idiot who only cares about fighting.
Toriyama referred to a 'poison' inside Son Gokuu's soul: the need to test himself against strong opponents is stronger than the need to hang around the loud, angry woman shouting moon-man words like responsibility to his family. He doesn't actually give a rat's ass about saving the world so it's lucky all those overpowered weirdos he wants to fight want to blow it up.
Heh. TFS DBZ Abridged. Muffin button.
4740245
4740260
You are NOT doing this here. Take it to PMs.
Just a friendly reminder that Goku gave Cell a Senzu bean before having his (at the time) only child fight said monster. Goku would have just kept watching from that cliff with that smile on his face as Gohan kept getting his butt handed to him if Piccolo hadn't have stepped in to inform him Gohan didn't have share Goku's fighting spirit which he should have known spending a year with him in a room alone. No wonder Gohan looked up to Piccolo moreso than he did Goku.
4740755
Ugh, I'd completely forgotten about Goku's EVERYTHING during the Cell Games. -_- Yeah, just further fuel for "Goku is the worst" fire.
4739581
Sadly, that is unlikely to happen, thanks to the culture within the industry.
Unlike American comics, a series only ever has one writer/artist or one duo. From the first chapter until the last, the writer never changes. If the writer dies, generally, the series is left hanging. It's why series like Phoenix (Osamu Tezuka's last work) and With The Light (a series about a mother raising a child with Autism in Japan) have no ending. Very rarely will another writer pick up where the previous left off and it's generally someone named by the deceased in their will (ie: what happened with the voice of Lupin the Third)
4748020
I know that, but with something as world wide popular like DBZ, and now Super, if something were to happen to Toriyama then the company isn’t going to stop making Dragonball episodes because of that. I’m not saying I want anything bad to happen to Toriyama, but unless the company lets him retire then that’s the only way the main Dragonball series will change to be more serious.
4748056
You presume to speak for all Western anime fans from your own personal biases. Let me bitchslap you with reality for just a second:
Know your place. I, for one, prefer comedic shounen, and get bored very quickly with serious shounen
I guarantee you're not speaking for the majority.
4748111
I’m confused, I thought you wanted Goku to be a better character which would most likely happen if someone else writes his character other than Toriyama because Toriyama wanted Goku to be different then other shounen protagonist, hence why Goku is the way he is and you don’t like him.
4748148
Umm.
Dude. Just....what?
No, dude. You...are making a lot of really stupid assumptions.
How does anything I have said add up, in whatever passes for your mind, to "Dragonball sucks because Toriyama doesn't know how to write it"? No, go ahead, I would love to hear how you defend this.
4748148
Now that I'm actually awake and not half-drunk on lack of sleep and meds, let me clarify my earlier post:
You are confusing my frustration with a character for complaints about the writer and how the story and character are written.
These two things? Are not the same thing.
Toriyama, as a writer, artist, storyteller, and general muse, is one of my greatest inspirations. His works, and works he's involved in, have a quirkiness, humor, and style that speak to me. The day that he finally retires (or dies) will be a sad sad day, because the world will have lost one of the great creative geniuses of the last century.
Great creators don't create perfect characters. They create characters with flaws, nuances, baggage, and habits that frustrate, vex, and infuriate the audience. Which is where we come back into this, and my point, which you managed to miss because you colored it with your own b iases and preconceptions.
On the surface, Goku is a happy-go-lucky guy everybody likes, a super strong fighter, undefeatable, ultimate good guy, all that jazz.
Beneath the surface, he's a contemptible bum who would rather run off and damn near get himself killed just to have a fight with a strong guy than stay home and take care of his wife and children.
His rival, one of the angriest, most arrogant guys in the universe, is a better husband and father because he actually cares about his family and shows it in ways Goku just doesn't understand how to.
None of this is a referendum on Toriyama's abilities to write--no, you know what? It is. All of it is.
Because this is how great writers write characters that inspire the reader to feel.
If you can't understand that, if all you care about is "This guy fights this guy forever", then just stick to playing the video games. The best parts of Dragonball are wasted on you.
4748346
Because there are some fans who think that especially about Super or Goku’s character(like you first started saying) and I’ve been hearing that a few times lately. So yes I did just assume that you were saying that the whole show is bad because Goku sucks.
Sorry, my bad, but I still think any long term problems like Goku’s character are not going to change. Especially since alot of Japanese fans that wanted Goku to stay the main character after he died, which was after giving Cell a senzu bean.
So basically I’m trying to say that Dragonball isn’t going to change much because of things like that and how Toriyama writes, not that it sucks.
So you you being done with Goku I can understand, Gohan and Trunks are the most real heroic characters from what I think.
4748405
I think the problem here is you're confusing me venting with me calling attention to a "problem" that needs to be "fixed".
4748480
Yeah I see that now, my bad.
Sorry for wasting your time because of my social cluelessness.