It was leading to rabbit holes of character arguments that spiraled into hellish domains where finding a feasible 'out' for Sunset grew dire indeed. After several attempts I've decided to just rip out the rootA question related to Myths' re-write! · 7:34pm Jan 10th, 2014
Question: Should I take down the ENTIRE story, as it presently exists, rather than have a large segment in the middle that is filled with plot holes and story inconsistencies?
Explanation: As I've been working on the latest round of re-writes for Myths, it's become more and more apparent how -bad- the chapters following the reworked chapters really are. The chapters with the sea serpent and island have always rubbed me a little the wrong way, but I couldn't put my finger on why they felt off. There have also been several things crop up that I'd like to address. One example is Twilight and the other's boarding the Bellerophon, complete with a full description of the ship, her crew, and such. Shuffling Spike off behind the scenes (and his general non-existence after the first few chapters) sometimes bothers me. Of course, I quickly forget about the little purple guy again and nothing ever happens. I almost need someone who, whenever I am about to edit a chapter, goes, 'what about Spike?'
I'm concerned that I am fiddling around with things too much and you fine, wonderful people will lose interest and drift away.
On the same score, it would be rather jarring for anyone new or finally reading Myths to encounter the old chapters.
I want to be clear, a large-scale rewrite of Part 2 has been on my mind for some time. Even longer than doing Part 1's rewrite. It (Part 2) is a cludgy mess that is in sore need of a massive editing effort, with missing scenes and chapters added. I've even been contemplating moving some stuff set in the Taiga into Part 2 in order to get those arcs rolling sooner. Taking the whole kitten caboodle down gives me this chance.
Another thing; Parts 1 and 2 are together becoming Book 1 of Myths and Birthrights, with Parts 3 and 4 being Book 2. This is for two reasons; one is length for if/when I decide to have proper books printed. I can't say for certain until the rewrite of Part 2 is completed, but it (Book 1) should be between 130k and 150k words long.
At this precise moment, I lean towards taking everything down and giving it a proper go-over sequentially. Then again; Me. Plans. Don't go so well together.
Thoughts? Comments? Dancing Otters?
Re-write Tyr's tutoring to have Spike be her teacher, and have a blurb earlier on about that being a thing. Problem solved.
Also, leave the chapters but insert a statement at the top of each chapter that they do no match with the start due to needing a rewrite.
I volunteer to remind you of forgotten characters.
Honestly I think you should actually try and narrow the story's focus upon one of the main characters and follow them through the story, till a certain point where there's a major convergence between the characters then put in the other major points that you want to add. untill you have the entire sequence of events fleshed out and ready before tackling the main event with the characters working together for their common goal. The bellrophan was an interesting sectiopn but I think events would have gone a lot smoother had you actually shortened the voyage to it's actual length. otherwise just make it a separate story all itself(since that is what it feels like).
I'd suggest you leave everything before the parts you want to rewrite up, and just take down the stuff from where you want to start making rewrites to the current chapter.
Of course, you should put in an author's note saying that you have not canceled Myths, but are just rewriting the parts you took down.
Speaking as someone who has had authors do this before, I understand WHY you'd want to tear down the old and only post the new, but it can be just as confusing to newcomers (1k+ likes but only two chapters? What gives?) as the inconsistent chapters, as well as frustrating to those of us who like what you've written so far (inconsistencies and all) and want to re-read to stay in touch with the story. You've already been marking chapters as revised, just making it clear in the description "yes I'm doing a massive re-write of earlier chapters so there will be inconsistencies with non-(R) chapters" should be fine.
If you DO decide to go clean-slate, a little warning would be nice so those of us who want to can download an 'archive' copy to keep around pending the reposts. :)
Edit: Fixed some grammar that was driving me batty.
If it isn't too late, I'd recommend keeping the original in its entirety as a second set of chapters in the story with a big author's note at the top of the first one to warn new viewers. I would say "like Wanderer D changed his The Empty Room rewrite to be," except he dumped them all in one chapter, which... I don't really agree with. I mean, I can see the reasoning—trying to minimize the footprint of the original chapters, etc—but it's just so unwieldy I can't recommend it.
Personally, I refuse to do any rewrites until my story is done since I would just endlessly tweak stuff, but for such a long story, I can see the benefits... as long as it gets done. So many projects seem to die in rewrites, it seems (or lose all interest by existing readers.)
As for the rewrite itself... I don't really have any suggestions except for what I commented early on about letting the reader understand the context of a scene before diving into it. That isn't to say that there isn't room for refinement—there usually is, since we don't always know what needs to be emphasized until afterwards—but it sounds like you already have in mind everything I'd actually say.
In any case, good luck with it!
Wanderer D is rewriting The Empty Room and put the original version into one absurdly long chapter at the start before the rewritten stuff. Maybe you could do the same thing. I just read the latest two chapters of Myths in the past few days, and I would have hated if they had just disappeared before I got the chance to read them, along with the other unrevised chapters.
I didn't even notice Spike's absence until you pointed it out... there's just so much going on. If you don't have any big plans for him, is there really any point in including him more?
1702783
Don't forget Applejack!
I am another reader who would prefer you to keep the story up and revise it piecemeal like you have been. Readers should understand that there will be small inconsistencies between them and original chapters. It will also help the ones who reread to understand the changes you've made and appreciate them all the more.
Take it down. Based on what I'm seeing this is really the only viable option. Leaving it up and having to go back to reread old chapters because of new scenes is annoying. Besides, I wouldn't mind having a nice long 'fic to read
EDIT: Or (talk to to the site staff and see if they'll let you do this) create a new story here and move the current chapters to that one, at least while you publish the revised chapters. That way the old stuff is still around for those who might want it
(Yeah, I know I'm in the minority here... whatever. Anyway, I'm going to go grab the .epub of the story as it stands now... just in case,)
Also: Slim chance of published hardcopy? Yes please!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LClXK59VP0Q
Dancing otter as requested.
my thoughts is that regardless your current version of myths is awesome, and i do think you should leave this version up warts and all as the first version at the very least
1702906
What about moving the original versions to an un-published story on my account with links to it in the Appendix, the story bio, and anywhere else that is appropriate?
My concern with leaving the original versions up is two fold.
One, some of the chapters aren't seeing that many changes. 1 and 2, for example, already had an editing pass done months ago. They saw little more than a few additional tweaks and some very minor world consistency changes. Well, except the part in 1 where Ioka as a discworld is established... Okay, so maybe it is only 2 that escaped relatively unscathed, now I think about it...
Secondly, with how long Myths presently is, it makes the story massively bloated in size and word-count. There'd be two versions of pretty much every chapter up to 15ish, some not even matching anymore because of new chapters being inserted. The old 'intermissions' for example are becoming properly numbered chapters.
If an archived version of Myths isn't published, but sits in the depths of my account with links to find it for anyone willing to look, is that against site rules? Thinking it over, it feels like a grey area.
Also; fan-squeal! Cast-Iron Caryatid commented on my blog about Myths!
1702937
You'll be happy to learn Applejack features prominantly in the new Chapter 8.
1702993
Huh, yeah, an unpublished story could work. Keeping them completely separate is certainly the preferable path, and I don't think the mods would have any grounds to complain about that.
1703011
Sounds like the best compromise. I remember the people who wished that the original chapter 6 hadn't been lost. Just need to have enough redirections that people looking for the archive can find it.
1702963
Oh man, it's been years since I've seen that video!
I used to post it all the time when I frequented the City of Heroes forums. 
Now I'm sad. I miss that game. 
Considering re-posting a story is against the rules and you can just update chapters and tag them as rewritten, I suggest you do just that.
1703046 I have to agree with spanner, I would just update the chapters, though I wouldn't put them all up at the same time, if anything I would release them either as a chunk that being a couple chapters at a time, or all together with the others chapters in it's part grouping.
1703046
Take down means publishing, which is fine. It is deleting and resubmitting as a new story that is a problem (cause database clutter and being eligible for the new story part of the feature box).
1703027
Speaking of chapter 6, Tyr is suppose to mistake Iridia for Hera according to later chapters but that did not get in the last rewrite. Consider checking on that now so it is not forgotten again.
NO. That is a TERRIBLE idea.
I guess updating the chapters would be better, as it would leave the comments more or less where they belong. I feel something special for the comments in my stories (all three comments I received).
I would say to not re-write the entire thing, but only re-write that "large segment."
...I don't know much about things such as re-writing as I haven't done much of that myself (possibly because I'm not yet good enough to see things about my own writing that rubs me the wrong way xD), and it may only be because I like to see updates...
I'll just say this; Do what feels right. I waited over a year for Varanus TwiLestia story to update... I think I can wait a couple months with this one. Might even re-read it in the meantime since it seems I've missed quite a bit in the re-writes of earlier chapters.
Well, that makes up my mind. Since I've only read a few chapters, I'll stop and won't read this story until the rewrites are over and you are completely satisfied with it.
I will only read the final version, but I could make a suggestion for keeping the originals without them intruding. You could post the original chapters on another format, like Google Drive, and link them at the beginning of each chapter directly or through a blog post.
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, yes there are some inconsistencies that should be taken care of. The story as is is still up in my Top Five Favorite Stories, because of the quality of the writing, but on the whole it needs a little polishing. On the other hand, taking it down for a complete reworking of the story would, as you observe, cause some readers to maybe drift away (not me, because I will follow a person's story until they drop it or it ends.) And by reworking the entire story, you resign yourself to potentially months of rewriting (a task I personally find daunting and fairly dull.)
However, in the end, it's your decision. I think maybe you should do a complete rework, but not take the story down until you actually are ready to publish a large chunk of it (the reworked version). It's your call though, I'm just sticking giving my opinion. What ever your choice, I'll support it.
-C.Storm
1703182
Made a note of that. I'll be sure to double check it.
Thanks.
1703162
One of the reasons I am doing bulk drops of chapters (It's looking like it'll be 9 chapters on the first release) is because I don't want to hog the Feature Bar.
It may seem like a large amount, but I trust people to read at their leisure. I could release the first two chapters today. I don't as I want to make extra certain that they are in order, and it feels wrong. I want other people to have their shot on the feature bar. 
1703391
Fair enough. Hopefully it wont be months that this process takes to complete.
1703567 I know I remember your blog about that, which is why I gave the second suggestion of releasing the chapters altogether with the other chapters of their arc that way you only have two release chunks.
1702811
This. Just keep a version uploaded to GDocs and provide a link to it in the description, with a warning to newcomers that it is meant more for 'legacy' readers.
1703658
I've already created an archive location where I'll move the current chapters when everything is ready to go down. I'll also give 24 hours of notice (though if people want to download the current version, now is as good a time as later) before switching everything around. Afterwards there will be links to it in the Synopsis, the author's not for the first chapter, as well as in the appendix somewhere.
Presently, I'm looking at the Monday after next when all this will start. But I can't predict the pace of editing/revising. I tend to greatly underestimate the time required.
1703414
I have faith in my readers (those who remain) to be able to figure out what's happening. I've made no secret about the rewrite with this and the previous blogs. The old versions aren't disappearing (this time) as I've learned from previous mistakes. I've set up an archive version of Myths that I will link to in several places for those seeking out the older, warty and dirty version of the story.
I would say just tweak what feels off if you must, but don't fully rewrite the story. Personally, I haven't noticed anything terribly wrong with the fic, much less story breaking plotholes that bring the whole thing down. Spike's relative absence never bothered me much, just give us an update on what he's up to every now and then like you do with the mane six who don't feature as often as some of the characters. You've constructed a large and believable world with many characters. Not all of them need the spotlight, and that fact doesn't detract from the story to my eyes.
1702783 1702789 1702793 1702811 1702906 1702916 1702937 1702953 1702963 1703046 1703162 1703249 1703288 1703362 1703391 1703414 1703658
I wanted to thank all of you for taking the time to respond and give your thoughts, ideas, and opinions. I know I haven't responded to every comment (until now, if this counts), but I am reading, diliberating, and figuring out how to proceed.
What I am leaning towards is this;
1: Set up an Archive location with links to it in several locations.
2: Give 24 hours warning when I'm ready to switch everything around.
3: ????????
4: Un-publish the old chapters to preserve the comments, if only for myself, followed by uploading the new chapters.
5: Profit!... I hope...
1703819
This seems reasonable to me! Especially if there's an archive version available.
FYI, and this is just trivia so don't let it influence you, I regularly use the "Download as .epub" link on stories when they update, convert to .mobi and then slap them on my Kindle for later re-reading when I need something to do. Re-publishing kinda messes this up, but I can fiddle with Calibre and adapt. :)
To be honest I had to stop reading Myths and Birthrights due to becoming highly confused when you started changing things and adding stuff...I mean honestly I have just been waiting for you to finish all of it and the edits as well as everything else you need to do before I will be reading it. I just get really confused in a story of this magnitude when there are a lot of different change-ups and large edits. Just thought I would throw my own opinion out there. Have a good one and happy writing!
1703819
That is an okay plan. But consider leaving the chapters that are not slated for rewriting up with a placeholder chapter in between stating why the intervening chapters are down. This is so you can add new chapters if you need to create new content to keep motivation up.
... I didn't even know the story was undergoing massive rewrites in the first place. How did I not know this? Glancing through your blog posts, I can see it's mentioned kind of a lot... but none of those blog posts look familiar, either.
I strongly dislike rewrites, partially for the same reason I almost never watch a movie twice; I already know the gist of what's going to happen. No matter how much you change, the basic plot can't change too much without the entire premise of the story changing, and just, ugh. I hate having to re-read things. And if little enough changes that I don't need to re-read it, that makes it difficult to justify spending so much effort rewriting it that the story takes an enormously long time to actually continue — if it doesn't die mid-rewrite, anyways.
That said, I can understand that it's your story, and you have every right to conclude that it needs rewriting, and while I'm not happy about it, I do hope the rewriting goes well (if only so that you can continue the story that much sooner, however long that takes).
If you do take down the old chapters entirely, I'd support placing them somewhere else and linking to it, as you've proposed in another comment.
1704398
1704354
I was actually having some difficulty with Chapter 21, particularly the later half of Celestia's scene. I couldn't get it to feel right. Then, not ten minutes ago, inspiration struck and now I'm furiously typing away.
Me. Plans. They are like matter and anti-matter. Oil and water. Cats and Dogs. Incompatible in the extreme.
That would be one massive re-write...I just want Celestia to kick Zeus' flank! Seriously, the dude has it coming in the worst way! ...arrogant prick...
I love your story...do what you must. I shall re-read it if I need to.
1704078
That is understandable. Having things bounce back and forth, never knowing if what you read is still accurate, must be annoying. If I can make a recommendation, wait for that 'Complete' tag to be applied, and then enjoy!
Though, that may some many months away. There is a lot still to be written. 
1704662
Zeus is a nice guy! Honest! Why does everypony want him to be kicked in the godly jewels by Celestia? Other than because he is a lecherous, self-entitled, arrogant jerk that hurt Faust...
1704703 Don't make me bring my OC over here to do it for you!
1704550
Nope, clearly it is your muse just hating the constrains of planning.
1704703
Clearly they are hoping it would return his brain to his head.
Sadly, it cannot just be done randomly but instead needs to be done strategically such as to also knock his head out of the clouds at the same time.
For one, I'll stick around and wait for you to do what you feel you need to do. If I can wait a year for Urban Moose to return (even though he actually came back a full year ahead of schedule) and post something I think I can wait for you.
And I'd say if you're going to take stuff down in big chunks leave up the stuff that you've revamped and are happy with. Though I think 1702811's idea was a good one.
1704691 Exactly why I was going to wait.
It is a good story I am liking it so it would be a sad day if you were to take it down
1704721
Yes, my Muse is a feisty, free-spirit for certain.
You know you're doing something right when people have such strong reactions to a character.
I say re-write what feels wrong or off in your chapters. You can't really take down the whole story then put it back up. The admins get fussy over stuff like that and they do warn new comers about it.
Fix what needs to be fixed. Tis better to revise and rework then dump the whole thing completely and face hurdles.
1710168
You can take it down and put it up if you use the approved method so that it does not get labelled as 'new'.
I would say post the rewrites as a new story, then when it's all done, remove the old one. Inform the admins of this ahead of time, and explain your reasoning.
While I haven't read Myths in awhile, taking it down would just make me feel sad. I'll be like, "Why didn't I reread this, now it's gone!"