To: Princesses Celestia and Luna
Re: Witness statements
I have a strange unique an interesting situation, your majesties. As requested I’ve met once again with Miss Twilight Sparkle in order to gather the statements of her and her friends regarding the current investigation.
It seems, however, that I’m going to have to disappoint you. Apparently everypony here (plus Spike) has come to the agreement that they’ve already told you all they know about the matter regarding Gary Stu.
They are, rather adamantly in a few cases, insisting on talking to Mister Stu himself.
I’ve explained to them that Gary Stu can’t be disturbed before you yourselves have had a chance to speak with him. When that failed to convince a few of them I brought up my orders to keep them at Carousel Boutique. After a few, admittedly hectic, minutes during which Miss Rainbow Dash seemed a little too eager to test whether or not I could keep her from leaving; Miss Sparkle came up with a compromise.
So included with this report is a letter, written by those I was sent to question and intended for Gary Stu. My apologies for failing to get any official statements. It of course falls to your majesties’ judgement whether or not Mister Stu receives this message.
From: Private First Class Flash Sentry
Addendum:
If I might make a personal note, Princesses?
I’m really hoping you show it to him.
I read the letter myself before allowing it to be included in my report, of course. Between that and what Twilight Miss Sparkle and her friends have told me about this whole mess
Let me put it this way: Were I in their hooves, whether Gary is punished or not, I don’t think things would sit right if I didn’t get a chance to say something to him.
Respectfully,
Flash Sentry
Dear Gary Stu,
I’m really not sure where to start with all this.
I guess I owe you an apology. After spending the whole day seeing the ways everypony else reacted to my discovery I think I can understand why you might have wanted to keep those story disks hidden. All my yelling and imprisoning you was out of line, and even if I did so under Princess Celestia’s request it might have been better if I’d at least consulted with you before informing the rest of my friends about what I’d learned.
So, for whatever it’s worth, I’m sorry Gary. Looking back on it all I can only imagine my reaction was probably exactly the sort you’d been afraid of.
Unfortunately that’s not the only reason I’m we’re writing to you like this.
You’ve really thrown us all for a loop, sugarcube. I still ain’t certain whether or not it was better that you helped me out this morning. Maybe if it were just me I’d let this whole things slide and figure you learned something important from it, but considering the circumstances
You lied to us. You lied to all of us. The only reason you ever believed in any of us was because you already saw the way things could’ve been! What’s it matter that you backed us up if you already knew
It doesn’t matter that you cheered us on because you never thought we’d fail
I believe what Rainbow Dash is trying to say is that it’s hard to see what value any faith you put in us had if, thanks to your story disks, you never had any room to doubt in the first place.
(The poor dear doesn’t want to admit it but she’s been rather shaken since that thought occurred to her. It’s hard to blame her. With the way you stepped in on so many of our adventures I myself find it hard to think you ever had much confidence in us to start with despite all you’d foreseen.)
It sure doesn’t feel like you believed in me. I remember when you talked me out of running away because of Owlowiscious, or during my first birthday in Ponyville when I got greedy about my presents and you talked me down.
This isn’t even just about the Crystal Empire anymore! Anytime things started to go a little wrong for me you just jumped right in. I thought you were trying to be my friend. I still want to! But after everything else it just feels like you didn’t think I could handle solving those problems or learning a lesson on my own.
Hey don’t worry! Fluttershy and I both think that you probably thought you were helping (she’s just feeling a little too shy right now to write it out herself). Still, maaaaaaaaybe you should’ve come and asked me before messing around with stuff you knew or thought you knew was gonna happen! After all, nopony knows future-knowledge-that-probably-definitely-will-happen-but-maybe-not-the-way-you-expect better than Pinkie Pie!
Which actually brings us to the real point of this letter.
As you can see, even after talking it over for so long, our opinions on this are still quite scattered. We’re angry, hurt, saddened, betrayed
Most importantly, we’re all confused. Even those of us that want to believe in your good intentions need to ask:
Why, Gary?
Why did you do it?
Sincerely,
Twilight Sparkle
Applejack
Rainbow Dash
Rarity
Spike
Fluttershy
and Pinkie Pie!
Dear Twilight
Dear Spike
Everypony,
I’m sorry.
I wish I knew what else I could say, but that’s it.
Celestia Princess Celestia showed me your letter. Before she even asked me anything herself she showed it to me and said I needed to read it. She showed me all the letters you guys have been sending each other all day.
I messed this up. I messed this up so bad and I know it. I think I’ve known it for a long time I just
I’m sorry. It’s hard to think straight like this. I guess I should answer your question first.
Rarity, you were actually pretty much right about this whole thing. I don’t think you really can imagine what it’s been like for me though. It’s like
I can’t even think of a good example without using spoilers “future knowledge” but I guess it can’t hurt anymore now, right? I’ll try not to be too specific at least.
Imagine if you guys got pulled into one of Spike’s comics. Or a Daring Do book. Would it be any fun if you just spent the whole time watching the story and getting rescued from the bad guys? Do you think you’d be happy just being the sidekick while the heroes save the day?
That’s me. That was me exactly when I showed up in the Everfree Forest and met you guys. I knew where I was, I knew when I was, and I was just too excited. I had a chance to adventure with you guys! Everything I’d seen back in my world, I’d get to be a part of! But I was scared too. If I did something wrong I might mess things up and leave Equestria in a really bad place. But still, this was a once in a lifetime shot.
That’s when I figured it’d be okay, as long as the stories ended the same. Which was also about the time I decided to signal to AJ that Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash were moving to catch Twilight when she fell.
“Aww, it weren’t all me. Gary’s the one that pointed these two out after I grabbed ya! Good thing he was here!”
It felt so amazing to hear that. So I just kept helping. At first I just let the adventures happen and tried to be close by when they did. I’d give you guys a little advice and get things going. It’s why I let Rarity fall up in Cloudsdale or just let Fluttershy be a nervous wreck while we were climbing up to that dragon nest.
I guess it all started to go to my head though. You guys started to come to me when problems were coming up. Or sometimes before they were coming up, like with that surprise party you wanted to throw for Pinkie Pie. I started to think it wouldn’t hurt things if I helped you guys get away from some of the weirder or more embarrassing stuff I’d seen. I mean, it’s not like Pinkie needed to think you guys didn’t want to be her friends anymore. And it’d be mean if I just let Spike run into the Everfree Forest because Twilight got a new pet, right?
It all just kept getting bigger and bigger and I just kept telling myself it was okay because things happened like the episodes stories I’d seen. Rainbow Dash made the Sonic Rainboom, Rarity still found out Blueblood was a big jerk, Applejack’s family won that cider-making bet with Flim and Flam.
The Crystal Empire was where I started to get worried. When Spike sent me to help Twilight instead of running off himself I started to wonder if I’d gone too far.
I tried, Spike. I really did try to put you back in the spotlight but everything happened so fast after I caught up to Twilight that I didn’t see any other choice than to jump in myself. I was scared because I knew this time I’d changed something big.
Then I saw the statue the Crystal Ponies were building of me and my own window in Canterlot.
I’m terrible and I’m sorry. I should have stopped it right then and there but remember what I said before? About how it wouldn’t be any fun to be a sidekick? That was the first time I really felt like I’d been a hero in this story. I just told myself it was okay because we kept winning and the bad guys lost so there wasn’t any difference in the long run.
But there was a difference. A big one. The whole situation happened because I’d messed things up to the point where you guys relied on me for so much and then when Twilight found those disks
My first thought should have been “Oh no, I’ve seen what happens when Twilight learns about the future.”
Instead I thought “Oh crud, I’m in so much trouble.”
I only wanted to feel like I was part of your world. Like I was helping you guys! But you’re all right. Whatever my reasons were I acted so selfishly. You guys would have been heroes with or without me. I never even gave you guys a choice about whether or not I should help.
I’m sorry.
I don’t know what else I can say.
Your friend still no matter what,
Gary Stu
My most faithful student,
It would seem we’re nearly at the close of this case, as Gary’s letter to you and your friends has no doubt implied. As it stands, however, Luna and I are in something of a conundrum.
Gary has confessed to acting selfishly. To knowing, if not at first then eventually, that he was robbing ponies of their glory and posturing himself as a hero that (in his own opinion) he does not deserve to be. All parties on this end agreed that Mister Stu and his future knowledge can not be permitted to impact Equestria any further than it already has.
Which left us at a loss for what to do with him. The story disks can be destroyed, but Gary himself is another issue. I would not deign to execute a creature that seems so sincerely repentant for his actions, even if such punishments were enforced in Equestria. While his memories of the future knowledge could be removed, the spell required risks significant damage to his personality and would be fruitless in any respect with the evidence of his works still present in our world. While banishment or imprisonment are options, they are ones neither Luna nor I wish to exercise lightly. Even were he banished, Gary has nowhere else he could go in our world and we have yet to discover a way to return him to his own. To make him wander lost in the inhospitable lands beyond Equestria’s borders is a fate I would inflict upon no creature, regardless of their crimes.
Which brings us to you, my little ponies.
A suggestion was offered by Luna. One that, in theory, would remove all danger and damage Gary Stu and his future knowledge have visited upon Equestria. Upon placing the proposition to him, Mister Stu accepted. He truly seems to believe it is the only way to redeem himself.
Included with this letter, Twilight, is an outline of the plan along with the formula of the spell that you, along with Princess Luna and myself, will need to cast. I am trusting you to interpret and explain it to your friends as, given the differing circumstances between the story disks and our current reality, this plan can only be implemented with the assistance of all six Elements of Harmony.
Discuss carefully amongst yourselves. I leave the decision in your hooves.
Your loving ruler,
Princess Celestia
Dear Princess Celestia,
We understand. All of us, Spike included, are in agreement.
Gather the Elements of Harmony. We’ll meet you at the Castle of the Two Sisters.
Your faithful student,
Twilight Sparkle
... Not sure if I like how this turned out.
Well written yes, but I don't know..
Hope there not like erasing him from the timeline and resetting everything
I'm getting a "Erase the human from existence" vibe O.O.
Hope I'm wrong
Okay, so I'm thinking that it might just be preventing him from going to equestria in the first place instead of erasing him from existence (as the other comments seem to believe). Now time to wait until the next chapter comes out.
Probably imprison him in stone until a period of time has passed where he doesn't know the future.
Although, I would have to image a basilisk would be better for this as he would not feel the passage of time, which from Discord's comments is possible with the EoH, although that could be a Discord specific circumstance anyways.
I'm under the impression that they're going to attempt traveling back to before his initial appearance to prevent him from including himself in everything, but just like It's About Time, it isn't going to work. Where it goes after that... no idea.
Meh pefer he gets destroyed. While he not as bad as the other forms of Gary stusm he still a ass for taking Spike moment of glory.
The little guy has so little to be proud of.
Assuming Gary is telling the truth, I'm not sure if that's better or worse than what I expected. I figured that he was just kind of arrogantly assuming he could just fix everything, but it looks like there really was no complex explanation for what he did. He was literally just playing with their lives without thinking of the consequences.
That's messed up, but in a less subversive way than what I assumed.
That doesn't excuse what you did.
Is it wrong that I hope tirek kills all of them. I mean seriously so what stealing glory, stunting personal growth. Yes let’s all just forget about how many life’s he saved, someone would have done it anyway so it doesn’t if he prevented ponies from dying or getting hurt after all in an alternate timeline were he doesn’t exist someone would have done it. Really everyone of them needs a massive slap to the head and a kick of their high horse.
Now this one is a pickle for sure. First and foremost, this chapter finally gives us insight on how anon saw this whole incident, and indeed, he is partially to blame over what has transpired. I say partially, because event were going to change regardless of what he did the nanosecond he displaced some airmolecules as he came to be in equestria.
If he is indeed punished, then what are the legal actions against him? He has perpetrated no crimes, and no, stealing somebodyelses thunder(poor spike) is not a crimeworthy punishment, otherwise ponies would be issuing legal actions under that claim, and equestria would be one hot mess.
Secondly, if he is indeed punished, then what about ponies like Sunset Shimmer, who under same interpretation attempted a coup and armed invasion on equestria, and got nothing for that, or Starlight Glimmer who had enslaved ponies and succesfully ended lives of multiple ponies multiple times with time travel, AND assaulted royals.
IF Anon is punished, and these two are allowed to go scott free, what does that tell about ponies? Are ponies more equal than other beings, should ponies that recide outside equestrian jurisdiction be treated like lowest possible lifeforms because they do same to other species themselves?
In most likely case, it could be a hearty lesson for all as to what happens when one side hold and has to hold secrets that could be dangerous, and how to best avoid abusing them. Anon was tempted, he resisted, he stumbeled, he made mistakes, can anyone say any different, has anyone been in his shoes. Had he done things perfectly, had he managed to take into consideration any and all angels and puppetmastered situation so that there would be absolutely no way to impede him, then he would have become inhuman. Only then would he have become unrelatable gary stue, man who makes no wrong, and who as such, cannot even be considered as a man in the first place[rant over]
8737829
But did he really take Spikes moment of Glory if Spike offered it to him?
It is also funny how everyone is getting all high and mighty about punishment when in all likelihood many of you would have done something similar to what Gary did, whether as extreme as doing all he did or doing something small which still had an impact. No matter what you would do in this situation you would have altered something in the timeline.
Ah... Gary decided to travel the road paved with good intentions on his way to hell.
8737941
That why don;t do self insert fics what so ever.
there are a few showing the self inserts do more then just accidently damage the time lines they down right CANIBLZE THEM.
Wait...I see what the plan is, I think.
The spell they're casting...to remove the influence completely...it's going to turn back time in Equestria to Gary's arrival, at which point he can act to not interfere!
8737901
Yes, actually. Yes it is.
"So what if I made you a worse person overall?"
No, that's a pretty big objection to have. Not allowing people to grow, and you know for the better, is one of the worse things to do.
I'm truly not seeing what point you're trying to make here. Are you condemning him? If so, why do you bring up the people were never in real danger to begin with? This sentence lacks coherence.
However, let's assume you're making the argument that he did nothing wrong... How? No one was ever in any real danger, everyone was saved in both time lines. The only difference is he forced himself into the hero role, stealing other's growth and glory. He's taking credit for deeds he didn't do. Bravery? No, he knew exactly what was going to happen. A great advisor? He knew the future and the ending, of course he has advice.
The problem isn't that he did these things, it's that he went about it the wrong way. He sought glory and adventure at the cost of others. To put it simply, he is a villain.
Ignoring the pun, what high horse? He impacted the world in a negative way. They aren't on a high horse, they're condemning a criminal.
8737989
Nope, sorry, nata. I'm sorry, but I hate the way this story is playing at times. Gary did NOT negatively effect the world. Reasons really, REALLY don't matter here for me. Because the moment you get there, in that situation, all bets are off. You have no idea if this world is EXACTLY the same besides you being in it, you have no idea how close things will play to canon. You go into that situation and the time you don't save someone is the time the universe decides to divert and than you're stuck knowing you could have saved them and didn't.
And the issue of Gary Stu's knowledge is even less important and more hypocritical to bash upon in this universe. Why? This is a world with prophecies, some people that might have precognition, etc. He knows things to a point- after that, all bets are off. And considering MLP''s current run, he has may what? Knowledge of major events over the course of two or so years?
Am I suppose to feel bad that this version of Twilight isn't a princess yet? I don't. I wouldn't have apologized and I wouldn't have felt sorry. Twilight is probably going to be a princess no matter what, and is one of the most powerful Unicorns regardless, and Spike has several hundred years ahead of him. Rainbow is still the fastest in Equestria, Rarity is still a successful fashion maker, Applejack still has a successful farm. Fluttershy and Pinkie are likewise still fine and not mad about this to begin with. I only partially felt bad for Spike until it was pointed out that SPIKE told Gary to go.
The only harm out of this is a bit of character growth which, lets be honest, they'll gain in another year or two with how adventures keep happening in this world.
And it would have been impossible to NOT get involved anyway. He was IN the Everfree at the First Episode. Meaning that he probably would have been confronted by Celestia, later Luna, and eventually would end up involved due to Twilight's curiosity over the new creature, and through her to the rest of the main six.
I'm missing the part where I'm suppose to be mad at Gary or feel bad for the Ponies. He could have sided with ANY of the villains and probably have made them both competent and deadly, not to mention victorious. Or, you know, used his knowledge to actually work things in his favor diabolically instead of just making friends with the main six and making sure canon results were kept.
Either way, this is going to probably end with either one of the ideas mentioned in the comments already, or with some spell to either rewrite everyone's memories with the canon events or just erase Gary's memories of things, or something else equally disappointing. This story was interesting, its still well written, but I'm not liking the direction.
8737941
In a way, yes he did steal it from Spike because it would've been his if Anon hadn't interfered. Because of Anon's actions Spike wasn't able to build into the character he was in the show and take the leap, instead he doubted himself and offered it away since he believed it was the only way. It'd be like going back in time and taking credit for discovering electricity from Edison because you used your future knowledge to take advantage of what people didn't know what they themselves would one day be capable of.
Instead of whatever they're going to do, why not just punt him through the mirror portal in the Crystal Empire? He'll be with other humans in a world where his knowledge of future events would be limited. Plus he'd be able to come back and visit or be visited whenever they chose.
8737936
Gotta agree with you. The S.G. comparison is especially apt. What she did was easily worse than what Gary did in this story (deliberately try to destroy the mane6's destinies with her own "future knowledge") and they still forgave her.
Why I'm surprised that Gary Stu admits to doing it just to be the "Big Damn Hero" and to be cool and everyone is still trying to make excuses for him? This is the same fandom with Luna after all.
8738123
8737936
8737941
Are we really doing this "in for a penny" stuff?
If anything, if you think appearing in Equestria might cause things to go differently then why do you think continuously inserting yourself into events and giving yourself a prominent role where you had none would make anything better?
You're both basically saying "If I crack the window maybe if I keep cracking it it'll make everything better". No. What you end up is a window with even more cracks and an increased likelihood to break.
8737936
"We'll there is no law against it!". Really?
Because there really is going to be a law against a person randomly appearing in another world's timeline and saying not to use your foreknowledge to insert yourself continuously into events to make yourself a big hero.
That would be even more absurd then this entire story ever actually happening.
8738123
Oh? So if something kept you from being a massively successful multi-billionaire who cured cancer it would be fine because I still lived a normal life that probably turned out just fine.
There is the keyword: probably.
The devil you know and all that. Because we know how the future turns out with no Gary interference. With Gary interference there is a coinflip in that some important things that happened for the better might not happen. The affect on Twilight and Spike is the worst because of the affect they had on the world in trying to spread friendship.
8737989
Unless there's such a thing as thought crimes, he is in no way a criminal. The idea of stealing glory being an entrance for criminal prosecution would mean that Rarity would be in prison for crying out loud. About the only argument you could make would be an invasion of privacy, and getting that to stick would be nigh impossible.
8738123
- Accusing Gary of being selfish for altering events for the sake of looking good.
- Considering reseting the timeline just for having the chance of recovering their missing glory (alicorn, Wonderbolt, fashion store chains,etc...), even if that means risking the fate of Equestria with a "villain wins" scenario.
Scumbag ponies!
8738316
As I said, you have no way of knowing if things are "EXACTLY" the same besides him. In that situation, you have no idea what version of Equestria you're actually in- Fallout, fall of Equestria, one of the various Griffon-Pony-war worlds, Civil War, etc. If you inexplicably land in a world that resembles a fictional universe, you can't assume that is the canon one- THAT is what gets you killed. Especially sense you're already there.
And your window analogy doesn't work. This is more along the lines of a horse or car going off the known course. If you leave it alone, its just as likely to go further and further off course as it is to barely drift.
And, again, given when and where he started, not getting involved wasn't an option and any MLP fan would expect that.
8738324
....I'm confused, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
Maybe they're going to try and send him back in time to the moment he first arrived so he can stop himself?
Something similar happened in the movie 'A Sound of Thunder' where the guy stepped on a butterfly and the world kept changing for the worst to the point of no return. The guy manged to go back in time and tackle himself off the path which prevented him from stepping on the butterfly which erased the future version of the guy because that timeline ceased to exist.
8738329
Agreeing I guess, but I'm tired of reading the Six plus Spike throwing a hissy fit because "muh character development!" over securing the wellbeing of Equestria.
8738322
What crime did he commit? Putting the world at risk for self interest.
Picture this: A charlatan gets himself in the good graces of the court, for he sent himself back a year, knowing the disasters that will come. He successfully saves the kingdom, gaining renown and envy of all. He is made advisor to the King and helps make the exact correct choices.
Then the year goes by.
He's not a hero, he went in with 100% assurance that it would be fine. New disaster strikes up, so the King turns to his advisor and champion, now in the blind. Will this once charlatan suddenly have the knowledge of the prince who had to solve the problems himself? Will he be able to give the proper advice?
God No.
He's not a hero. He's a villain who leeched off of others, now thrust into a prominent role. He will lead the kingdom to ruin based on his guesses, and people will wonder why the hero is suddenly acting badly.
Gary basically did what the charlatan did. He took the learning and adventuring, made himself a prominent aid, and made himself important. If disaster strikes, they'll turn to him and he won't be able to save anyone. You'll pardon me, but that seems a very large crime.
8738335
What are you talking about? Gary isn't trying to secure the future of Equestria. He's doing it to be the big hero. He literally admits it. The only reason he backpedals is because "Oh shit. My constant interference is fucking things up!".
8738326
What do you mean he has no way of knowing? He could've easily figured out he was in the normal timeline when the first few events came around. Also, its called doing recon. Actually, he admits in his letter he does know where and when he is.
If anything, your horse and car analogy is the one that doesn't work. Because Gary Stu is literally the one driving the car off the road by continuously inserting himself. He's not leaving it alone or driving it back onto the road.
The window one works. You just say it doesn't. Every time Gary decides to intervene he's making another crack. He's not fixing anything.
And lastly, it's not a matter of NOT getting involved. It's a matter of continuously getting involved when you definitely shouldn't be.
8738316
Make no mistake, Protagonist screwed up big time, but it will be interesting to see how Celestia, Luna and Equestria in it's entirety will react to this, especially when notions of both timetravel and dimensional transportation are possible in Equestria. The show itself has episodes where characters timetravel to timeperiods where they have advantages and are making impact on how things work and will work.
But at the same time, what would you do in place of Celestia, Luna and whoever has to make judgement on what is to be done with Anon? Execution, evaporation, torture, exile, sentece for life, obliteration from time and space, timetravel to point where he is not yet in equestria and terminate him from the start? That would open a whole other can of worms where everyone could face same treatment. Maybe starlight should be hanged for high treason, maybe Sunset should be executed for her crimes as well. These are things leaders must wrestle with, but this story is likely not about that, it is about forgiving and coming to admittance that mistakes are made and that those mistakes can pile up.
It is funny though, this story has made more people question morals and ethics circling around free thought, concept about justice and freedom of choice that many other stories out there. Either the author is a mastermind of creating highly interpretational fiction, or this is all some ellaborate social experiment about mob justice.
8738123
Yeah, he did. As soon as he took lessons, glory, and power away from others, he negatively affected the world. When Tirek comes, they're screwed. The alicorns can't give their magic to Twilight, discord will betray them, etc.. Gary doomed this world.
"I don't care about logic, I care only for emotion!"
You'll pardon me, but logic is one of the best ways to make a choice. If you ignore all logic and reason, you're not being smart. If you wish to make an argument, use logic.
You're using hypotheticals. Please, use something concrete other than, "Well, maybe he thought X!" because no, we don't know. I could argue you can only assume it's 100% canon because that's all you know at the time. You'll pardon me, but this argument would go in circles, so I'll consider it null for now on both sides.
You found the problem yourself. He passed himself off as a great advisor when, really, he's just using knowledge from his own world. After he passes his point in knowledge, the world keeps moving. He, in his advisory position, won't know what to say or what to do. He will lead the world down a bad path as he has no actual skill in solving these problems. He just copied what the show did, to an extent. He lacks the heroic qualities of the others, making him leech off of them. He will be detrimental to the world.
This is entirely speculation. You're ignoring many facts, including the castle, Starlight Glimmer, Tirek, etc. that were all relevant to her being an alicorn. You have no right to claim "it doesn't matter."
Yes, but now he doesn't have pride in saving an empire. He hasn't repaired the view of dragons in the hearts of ponies. He hasn't cultivated heroic qualities. He hasn't grown. He may have hundred of years ahead of him, but the only years of importance are every 1000 years, apparently. All things happen then, meaning he may not have another chance to be a hero or show how helpful dragons can be.
He knew it was wrong. He did something wrong. He cultivated Spike to be subservient. He still did it. He still did the wrong thing. He still leeched off of other's success. He's still doomed his supposed friends.
Spike is a victim more so than anyone as its his head that was messed with. His very thought processes changed. He isn't Spike, it's a fake Spike.
And how many are Spike relevant, hm? Which ones allow Spike to do stuff? None of them. Congrats, you stole his one thing.
Not really. He could have walked away, hidden, gone straight to Celestia knowing it'd work alright, moved to the outskirts, become an equalist, become a "fad", etc.. He chose to be an "adventurer". He chose to get involved. He chose to keep changing things. He chose a lot of things. He purposefully changed the world.
This is a massive leap in logic and begging the question.
Let me play out my way of events and see if it makes more sense...
Confronted by Celestia and explains his situation, telling her he knows things and cannot get involved. Goes into hiding in a distant outpost where they research a way to send him back. Twilight never meets him and neither do any of her friends. If things go too far off the canon path, he can steer it back, but that wouldn't be necessary as long as he doesn't get involved.
Much more logical and safe, as well as keeping the world safe while simultaneously not stealing everyone else's growth.
Hm... one moment. I think Katara said it best.
You want me to applaud him for doing a marginally not as bad thing? Please, give me a break.
Hello? He did do that. He purposefully pushed himself into the plot on multiple occasions, for his own betterment. He knew they were going to give Spike a statue and took his place. He did do these things. The only one saying he didn't do it for evil is himself, and, frankly, I don't trust his word.
I'd rather read before judging a story. Thus far it's done a good job of portraying both sides (Despite me disagreeing with one heavily) and is fostering a healthy debate within the comments, which is nice. I do enjoy a good debate... though I suppose I forgot to make sure... no hard feelings over opinions?
8738350
So, because he saved an entire kingdom from disaster he is a charlatan and not a hero. There is an issue with this logic, although it has more to do with altruism than anything else. If his actions, even as a byproduct, help more people while giving him a positive outcome.
But the meaning is not lost on me, as it is a deliberate one, on the gray area of morality. If the charlatan, instead of using his foreknowledge had not stopped the disaster but instead invested in products and goods to abuse people after the disaster, then he would have been just a colossal prick.
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He's only saving the kingdom because he realized that interfered so much that things were going off script and the person who was supposed to be key in saving the kingdom doesn't because of him.
He didn't see the ponies as actual people. He saw them as characters on a script. A script that didn't involve him but chose to write himself in that made him far more important than he should have been.
That's Gary's real fuck up.
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Indeed it was. Although I must admit, he did show more earnest emotion towards them than that.
But we will have to wait and see how things develop, for all we know, it was all part of his egotistical masterplan to turn Equestria into perfect version of itself like how Superboy Prime does.
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An "of course" on the no hard feelings part. But again, no. First off, from my point of view, I'm using logic. Mainly because I actually do believe in the multiverse, so the moment you put me in another universe I recognize, I don't think "I'm in Hogwarts/Equestria/Konoha/etc!" My first thought is "Okay, shit, how far from canon is this world" followed by wondering how good or bad that is for me. Not to mention, it seems completely illogical to put less than two years of "character growth" of a handful of individuals over the safety of the nation and world.
Secondly, let me rephrase something here. I'm not defending Gary in his entirety. I will grant you the whole figure of false importance that'll probably come back to bite later. His helping should have been a little more subtle or last minute if needed. What I'm defending, however, is the principle of getting involved with a universe in a situation where you know the canon timeline. What you and I have is actually an impasse because we're working on two different points of logic. You go by the logic of the multiverse, if it exists, being canon continuities only. I go more Marvel/DC style where basically every possible different direction the universe could have taken exists. And as a former math guy, my first instinct is realizing how unlikely it is that I ended up in canon if all the fandom and more is possible.
What you call hypotheticals to me are perfectly logical and reasonable concerns for that situation. If you were just proven one fictional universe was real, why shouldn't you assume that other versions of it aren't? Or that this one might be one of the less-nice versions, either in the present or near-future.
Besides, this isn't much different in principle from a fic where you send a character back in time, allowing them to undermine their enemies and rivals while taking advantage of many future events they know will happen. He's still undermining the growth, though, having been there himself, he'll likely know some situation to let happen better than an Insert would.
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PS Legit question: Are we sure that Twilight still ever timetraveled back during the episode when Cerebus got out? Cause, wasn't it implied that the timetraveling is what lead to him leaving in the first place thus prevent Tirek's escape, and making him a null point? Seriously, I'm not sure Tirek is a factor in this timeline right now, and if he was, I think the princesses will deal with him better if they saw the episode.
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I though this was about Gary Stu. Not you.
Gary Stu knows when and where he is.
Gary Stu had more than enough time to figure out where he's in the canon universe.
Gary Stu has literally admitted this isn't about the safety of Equestria but more because it isn't fun to be on the sidelines or be the sidekick.
Also, unlikely does not equal zero. And guess which timeline Gary seemed to end up in.
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Its not about me OR him, its about the principle, of which he is merely the subject. To use part of your own earlier example? If someone made a cure for cancer or anything similar SOLELY to get rich, I wouldn't not care because, remember, he still cured cancer. Likewise, I don't care WHY Gary helped the Main Six and made sure things stayed mostly to canon, what I care about is that he did. Because, again, the scenario where he does nothing is likely the scenario where half of the deaths avoided in canon are probably going to happen in this timeline because, clearly, this stopped being canon the moment he was put there, putting the butterfly effect is in full swing and start the dominos falling.
Did he make mistakes? Undoubtedly. Did the ponies in canon make mistakes? We all know they did. Neither situation is perfect. One is a situation without a human that knows canon and the other is, nothing more or less.
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No.
This is all about Gary Stu. This is about him and the Mane 6 and Spike. This is about him interfering in their lives simply because he thought it wouldn't be fun otherwise. "The principle of the matter" is a fallback excuse to try and justify is actions as if "well other made mistakes!".
This is like reading all the millions of Luna headcanons and fanons. A ton of excuses to try and justify a persons actions.
He fucked up for selfish reasons. That's all there is to it. Why is that so hard?
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-.- Because, if you would think about it, you would realize this is a no-win situation by your standards. He gets involved, he changed things, therefore he's evil because he "undermined" their lives. He doesn't get involved, he has to sit back and watch apocalypses, invasions, and near-deaths happen all around him knowing that at any given time, either by luck or his indirect interference, ANY of these things could go badly and knowing he could have helped.
I judge someone by what he does, not WHY he does it. And what Gary did was save Equestria. Helping people instead of letting them struggle isn't a crime. Nor is doing things for ulterior motives, to an extent.
Now, if he was playing the long con intending to take over Equestria himself, that's another thing. Intent and planning to commit a crime is actually a crime. Doing things because not doing them is boring isn't a crime.
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Ah we run back to the so called "no-win" scenario that doesn't exist.
He's wrong because he's continuously interfering in their lives when he doesn't have to. How many times does this need to be repeated. Because Gary truly needed to help in The Ticket Master. /sarcasm
He's wrong because he would risk Rarity falling to he potential death because that's how it happened on script. Because he views her as a character on a script rather than a person.
Gary is allowed to help. But he didn't need to be there all the time. He also didn't need to insert himself to be the Big Damn Hero. Stop pretending there is a one or the other.
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.....No, actually, that was all I wanted. This entire fic and the comments has turned into a debate over if he should have been involved at all or not. Accepting that helping is not off the table turns everything else into bad judgement calls and, yes, a bit glory-hugging. Again, it actually is the principle I care about here.
O.o that sounds like they’re going to blast him, which makes no sense considering the conflict in the Elements. I’m glad to see an update and it’s good to see he wasn’t being malicious like some others accused, but I’m also kind of confused as to where you’re going with it.
8738437 I also love how you have continuously taken every opportunity to ignore examples, analogies, and have complained about Gary being he most despicable creature from the beginning with no possibility of change. I’m with Akuma for some of this. If you know canon, see the story shifting to the left a little, and don’t do anything to correct for this error and it results in lives lost, what do you think will be the opinion of you then? Besides, that first interaction? The alternative was trying to get out of the Everfree on his own, and depending on how far in they were(distances are never really specified to my knowledge) he risked a mauling if he tried following their trail back to town. I may be a bit selfish in saying this, but I’d rather risk timeline interference than a gory death.
This is all just stupid, i can understand most of the characters to be this dumb even Gary but Celestia being that’s thousands of years old?
Gary intentions aside where is the proof that their history would follow the one on the disks? they all could've died a hundred different ways if not for Gary intervention, even if Gary decided to stand on the side lines and not interact with the elements his presence alone makes a difference, and there is the other side he always could've helped the villains to win, becoming a servant to Nightmare Moon doesn’t sound so bad.
And even now if they blast him and maybe send him back home, the knowledge itself of him, his actions and their future will affect them, so i dunno what using the elements on him will achieve.
I'm not sure if I like where this is going with using the Elements, as well as some spell Luna, Celestia and Twilight have to use in Sunbutt's plan. It seems like they could try to erase what he did somehow from history on one way or another to "correct the timline". We will see.
On another note, I find it somehow ridiculous how so many people deny Gary the right to pursue his life here. You literally demand from him to live the life of a hermit like Zecora or to banish himself to Oz and beyond, just because that would be the "right" thing to do? You expect a level of discpline, awareness and will to sacrifice himself readily which, I'm very sure there, nearly NOBODY will ever have?
Imagine you land in your favourite show, book, movie, whatever. I can tell you with absolute certainty that 9/10 humans will interact on one way or another with the characters there. It's easy to declare what has to be done from a distance, but imagine you land in exactly such a situation. Can you really say from yourself that you would follow the "Code of Honor" you expect from Gary exactly as that?
I surely couldn't say that from me.
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... Alright I'm reasonably sure that's not all of you but it should be enough to get my point across.
I'm the kind of author that likes to let my work speak for myself and actually does enjoy a bit of healthy debate in the comments section. However, despite several attempts to course-correct in story, it seems that there's something I've failed to explain properly that's resulted in some rather heated arguments.
I'm not accusing anyone here, it's just you guys are the most recent to post comments so (with apologies) I'm using you guys to get every reader's attention. Sorry for all this and know that it's not a personal attack on any of you, I'm just taking a chance to insert some Word of God into this.
So then:
The Butterfly Effect
While yes I am invoking it in story I'm just a little tired of seeing the "Gary's presence alone shifted air molecules and started a hurricane!" argument. I won't say whether or not it actually did. I even had Celestia acknowledge the possibility! But the fact is Gary admitted in this chapter that he never even bothered to wait and see. He started interfering right at the first test of the Elements (Applejack's). He couldn't know if anything was different from canon because he never took the chance to see, and the moment that truly started the biggest change was the second he decided to help AJ through her test regardless of what else his presence may or may not have changed. A test that he knew she would've passed on her own even if he hadn't pointed out the pegasi to her.
Those analogies about broken windows and veering cars? Neither of them really fits.
Gary was more like someone who's played a video game and is trying to help a new player through it by telling them how to solve all the puzzles. Does that actually teach the person how to solve the game? No. It either makes them annoyed with the back-seat gamer or teaches them to go to him for help when they're stuck.
Now expand that to someone's life and realize that they wouldn't have any reason to think that "getting annoyed" is an option.
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I have only two issues with this fict.
One Twilight creating a magical DVD player without any knowledge of binary, programing and coding, basically impossible to do.
Two everyone assumes that those disc contain thier future as if God himself proclaimed it so without even considering other possibilities, like Gary being a time traveler that came to save them for example.
As for the butterfly effect it did take place, Gary by becoming thier friend and helping them out made them dependent on him ergo why they chose him to go with Twilight in the crystal empire instead of Spike, thou his presence alone could have affected that choice as he was an extra helping character.
8738587
I'll leave aside the magic stuff as that's your opinion. As for the other half about the butterfly effect yes, that's pretty much my point. It did happen but Gary's presence mattered far less than his actions.
8738590
Well it's not really an opinion it's a fact, as I wrote once previously even if we assume Twilight managed to read the binary data somehow using light, she'd still be unable to read as it's just 1 and 0 and nothing else, more so the data is both compressed and coded so unless you the the method to decompress it and have the key to decode it again impossible.
As for the butterfly effect I forgot to mention, that's only applicable if we assume that thier future is already decided, yes Gary maight not have the mental capacity to test this theory, but I hoped that at least Celestia would realize that if A is possible so is b through X.
Sadly your characters suffer what I like to call cartoon intelligence, where the most obvious answer eludes everyone and all issue could be easily solved with a bit of logic.