I bet Steel is going to contact either Twilight Sparkle or Princess Celestia. But some things (bicorn slavery, forced breeding, etc.) are overlooked because of the laws and because of the time. Even other Bicorns themselves seem to think that how their life is alright. Leave it up to the former humans to shead some light on this issue.
But I do agree with Edward and Pierre. They brought up great points so far.
“A gilded cage is still a cage, girls.”
We want… we want to be as helpful as possible, but it’s not… if bicorns don’t do anything to help themselves first...”
How can they help themselves if you never let them grow? You baby them and tell them what to do and how to act. How will they learn to help themselves if you never even let them live free Fluttershy?
“Ah, hmm, a kind way to put it would be to say that somepony opened my eyes about certain aspects of Equestrian practices that I never quite realized the implications before...”
And that would be that Celestia doesn't want to lose her early warning system. Because that is probably the only reason that they live life in captivity. They were doing just fine on their own. Yet if a Bicorn comes into town, you have the right to practically throw them into a jail? And if it was a free Bicorn, no one would care about what their life was before hand, as long as they could breed and make huge families.
Pierre had the right idea to compare them with King Sombra. He was called evil because he enslaved other ponies yet here you sit doing almost the same thing and you justify it by saying that it's to help them? If someone walks into town, almost no one cares. If said pony was a Bicorn, it's a matter of national authority.
Twilight will be the hardest to break out of the elements. She's too busy kissing Celestia's flank to see how things really are. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Twilight grew another horn though.
Its amusing how easy it is to have characters stay mostly in character while making them seem relatively evil. But then, it only takes a little bit of ignorance, willful or otherwise, to do something monstrous. First views on a subject when young tend to stick, and remain unless excessive amounts of sufficiently acceptable contrary data shows up. Worse yet, those early-accepted ideas can easily be extremely contradictory, but that issue will rarely be noticed unless someone else points it out and forces the person to think about it. Generally by arguing and catching them in a contradiction. This, naturally, won't work on people who don't value logic.
I have to reread this fully to recall, but I think it was Rarity to whom it was pointed out that they were similar to King Sombra, due to both rulers practicing Slavery. Labels, after all, can easily confuse the issue, unless you define them and point out the similarities.
Fluttershy, good comparison there. Draw her attention to two different situations with two different responses she had innately accepted, then pointed out how many similarities there were between them. I think she might be more loyal to the freedom approach myself, given her personality due to personal experience, but it is uncertain.
Not really sure what to think about for Pinkie.
This is all if you ignore the possibilities of what kind of Elements of Harmony are active in this story. Could be holy artifacts, could be mind-altering artifacts. Could just be power-amplifiers. Could be sapient entities. Hence, getting the Mane six on board might actually be entirely useless, depending on that factor.
Quite amusing the thing about stress causing lowered life-span. I can fully see that happening too. After all, it works that way in real life. Mainly because, I think, Stress causes your body and mind to spend more effort, similar to the adrenaline rush you get in life-threatening situations, or facilities thereof like Rollercoasters and Sports. While less extreme, it still causes your body to wear out faster, constantly burning resources to maintain the higher level of preperation, expecting a dangerous situation to show up.
dam....is it wrong of me as a guy to wish that when we finally get to the extreme statement actions that they cut off their balls and mail them to twilight and the other princesses as a sorta "You wanted them so bad, then here you go!" thing.
Wow that was fairly harsh, tearing into Kindness and Laughter like nobody's business, but there's really nothing else they can really do under house arrest is there? Keep going! ;)
6705177 You call this little cracking a breaking?! Ah... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA! It is such a fun part to write about somepony, you wouldn't believe.
6705195 Indeed not. Rarity was kinda like a level one debatology opponent. Her investment in the issue was rather non personal and her views were obviously romanticized. The Mane Six all have their own reasons for their acceptance of the situation, and a good part of it is the institutionalization of it since way before they were even born.
6705474 Ah, but see, if nopony really protests the laws, never that actively (and at some point, some probably did), the ugly truth just never really jumps to the eyes. After all, they know bicorns can't do everything they want, but did they ever equate that with being placed under house arrest for leaving town vicinity?
But hey, people are contradictory like that. What matters foremost is always what affects them directly.
6705793 Oh, Twilight is not gonna be easy. She might never be convinced. Coulda, shoulda, it can go in many ways, some horrible.
6706642 Indoctrination of the youth makes things stick in the long run. And Celestia has been on her throne for a long time. When she makes plans (and, let's face it, she is a politician), Celestia can usually afford to play the long game. And Celestia keeps her reasons and reasoning close to her heart. Hint.
Fluttershy is still her caring, nurturing self, just with a bit more of a contradiction in her worldview. She was somewhat aware of it in the past perhaps, but she could always push it down (when was the last time she saw a bicorn, indeed?).
Pinkie... oh, Pinkie has a history with bicorns. Up in her family tree, there has been some. And the laws are probably hitting the closest to home on her. Remember Dash's joke at the café? Pinkie wasn't amused at all.
6707435 It IS a gleeful thing. You're gonna get some doozies further down the line.
6709733 ...I get precisely what you mean, but they'd never do that. Same as someone else who suggested they saw off their horns and run. The guys, they're a prideful bunch, they're a vindictive duo, they can live on spite if they need to. What they are now is not who they were and will be. Nopony in the world can change them into what they will not want to be, and that means they will never ever allow Equestria to push them to those limits. Edward and Pierre are in it to win. And ouch, balls, ouch. Transformation does not heal wound, y'know? Healing magic on the other hand...
6714358 As the two would say, "it's on the Equestrian's heads. They give us no choice."
They haven't broken half the elements, but they have infected them with a few new active ideas that contradict their preconceptions. Not passive ideas that can coexist with any other contradictory data, but active ideas, which they actually are thinking about. They are contaminated, at least from some perspectives, and that might well grow enough for it to be a serious problem.
I can't think of how you might convince the other three. Twilight at least, is probably futile to try and convince, at least without having support from the rest of the bearers. I have no idea how to convince Applejack unless she has the non-canon Truth Detection ability. (Not something ever shown in the show, just in fanfiction). Rainbow Dash is on the list of people who don't really value rational arguments and logic much, meaning another approach would be needed.
I think the biggest worry I would have is that Celestia might interfere. It seems she is a ruler-type Celestia, instead of Tyrant or Benevolent. She isn't Evil, or Good, (However you want to define those) so much as trying to keep her nation together and making decisions based on maintaining and advancing it.
Those history books were clearly biased. Meta-wise, it was intentional, I imagine. I don't think I could read one of those without cracking up laughing. Nopony would consider them odd however, due to the whole "indoctrination of the youth" thing. If those kind of history books are used, then is is pretty obvious that the "Real life" concept that you should distrust anything with bias. (and, although it takes effort so isn't done much, everything else due to the bias being hidden) It is clear that, unlike "Real Life", the standards for such books are not the same as the ones we use.
--- Is Unluck horn disease in any way related/based on AIDs? ---- While the math for Bicorn population growth seems to not work out, there are a few things that might explain it.
-Few if any families have a single child. -9 children from the one example we have. That might well be on the high side, but i doubt it drops below 3. -Unluck horn kills off 1/5. -Family units are NOT 1 male to 1 female. Herds were explicity mentioned. That gives a minimum of 3 parents, with an unknown upper limit, practical or enforced. -Some bicorns breed with "normal" ponies, which almost never results in a bicorn. (although occationally will result in a grandchild instead) Depending on how often this occurs, it could very well result in a significant reduction in BICORN birth rate. -Bicorns are not killed off to make luck potion. (And probably not killed off for any other reason either)
We don't know those 9 siblings (or was it 8 + Fortune?) were all bicorns. Admittedly, if they weren't, I don't think they would be able to be considered siblings, due to them being on the reserve. However, some bicorns might end up not part of those family units, instead being used to add bicorn genes to "normal" ponies.
Overall, given that family units might be rather large, the corresponding number of siblings might well not be 3-5x per parent, but 1-2. And, if that were the case, unluck-horn could well be enough to limit or reverse the potential population growth. ---- I still think comparing Bicorn status to Teela Brown is a fascinating premise.
6805169 Actually, since bicorns are not allowed to pursue certain careers due to stress and danger avoidance, it's not uncommon for bicorns to never get their cutie marks.
Half the Elements "broken".
Damn I love this story.
Well, this wont be as clean as convincing Rarity was.
I bet Steel is going to contact either Twilight Sparkle or Princess Celestia. But some things (bicorn slavery, forced breeding, etc.) are overlooked because of the laws and because of the time. Even other Bicorns themselves seem to think that how their life is alright. Leave it up to the former humans to shead some light on this issue.
But I do agree with Edward and Pierre. They brought up great points so far.
How can they help themselves if you never let them grow? You baby them and tell them what to do and how to act. How will they learn to help themselves if you never even let them live free Fluttershy?
And that would be that Celestia doesn't want to lose her early warning system. Because that is probably the only reason that they live life in captivity. They were doing just fine on their own. Yet if a Bicorn comes into town, you have the right to practically throw them into a jail? And if it was a free Bicorn, no one would care about what their life was before hand, as long as they could breed and make huge families.
Pierre had the right idea to compare them with King Sombra. He was called evil because he enslaved other ponies yet here you sit doing almost the same thing and you justify it by saying that it's to help them? If someone walks into town, almost no one cares. If said pony was a Bicorn, it's a matter of national authority.
6705474 still love the story and I can't wait for the next chapter.
Please upload it soon!
Twilight will be the hardest to break out of the elements. She's too busy kissing Celestia's flank to see how things really are. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Twilight grew another horn though.
Its amusing how easy it is to have characters stay mostly in character while making them seem relatively evil. But then, it only takes a little bit of ignorance, willful or otherwise, to do something monstrous. First views on a subject when young tend to stick, and remain unless excessive amounts of sufficiently acceptable contrary data shows up. Worse yet, those early-accepted ideas can easily be extremely contradictory, but that issue will rarely be noticed unless someone else points it out and forces the person to think about it. Generally by arguing and catching them in a contradiction. This, naturally, won't work on people who don't value logic.
I have to reread this fully to recall, but I think it was Rarity to whom it was pointed out that they were similar to King Sombra, due to both rulers practicing Slavery. Labels, after all, can easily confuse the issue, unless you define them and point out the similarities.
Fluttershy, good comparison there. Draw her attention to two different situations with two different responses she had innately accepted, then pointed out how many similarities there were between them.
I think she might be more loyal to the freedom approach myself, given her personality due to personal experience, but it is uncertain.
Not really sure what to think about for Pinkie.
This is all if you ignore the possibilities of what kind of Elements of Harmony are active in this story. Could be holy artifacts, could be mind-altering artifacts. Could just be power-amplifiers. Could be sapient entities. Hence, getting the Mane six on board might actually be entirely useless, depending on that factor.
Quite amusing the thing about stress causing lowered life-span. I can fully see that happening too. After all, it works that way in real life. Mainly because, I think, Stress causes your body and mind to spend more effort, similar to the adrenaline rush you get in life-threatening situations, or facilities thereof like Rollercoasters and Sports. While less extreme, it still causes your body to wear out faster, constantly burning resources to maintain the higher level of preperation, expecting a dangerous situation to show up.
Heh, call me callous, but I do so love seeing the debilitating effects of a massive guilt-trip completely decimating 'innocent' ponies.
More, please![:twilightsmile:](https://static.fimfiction.net/images/emoticons/twilightsmile.png)
dam....is it wrong of me as a guy to wish that when we finally get to the extreme statement actions that they cut off their balls and mail them to twilight and the other princesses as a sorta "You wanted them so bad, then here you go!" thing.
Wow that was fairly harsh, tearing into Kindness and Laughter like nobody's business, but there's really nothing else they can really do under house arrest is there?
Keep going! ;)
6705177 You call this little cracking a breaking?! Ah... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!
It is such a fun part to write about somepony, you wouldn't believe.6705195 Indeed not. Rarity was kinda like a level one debatology opponent. Her investment in the issue was rather non personal and her views were obviously romanticized. The Mane Six all have their own reasons for their acceptance of the situation, and a good part of it is the institutionalization of it since way before they were even born.
6705474 Ah, but see, if nopony really protests the laws, never that actively (and at some point, some probably did), the ugly truth just never really jumps to the eyes. After all, they know bicorns can't do everything they want, but did they ever equate that with being placed under house arrest for leaving town vicinity?
But hey, people are contradictory like that. What matters foremost is always what affects them directly.
6705793 Oh, Twilight is not gonna be easy. She might never be convinced. Coulda, shoulda, it can go in many ways, some horrible.
6706642 Indoctrination of the youth makes things stick in the long run. And Celestia has been on her throne for a long time. When she makes plans (and, let's face it, she is a politician), Celestia can usually afford to play the long game. And Celestia keeps her reasons and reasoning close to her heart.
Hint.Fluttershy is still her caring, nurturing self, just with a bit more of a contradiction in her worldview. She was somewhat aware of it in the past perhaps, but she could always push it down (when was the last time she saw a bicorn, indeed?).
Pinkie... oh, Pinkie has a history with bicorns. Up in her family tree, there has been some. And the laws are probably hitting the closest to home on her. Remember Dash's joke at the café? Pinkie wasn't amused at all.
6707435 It IS a gleeful thing. You're gonna get some doozies further down the line.
6709733 ...I get precisely what you mean, but they'd never do that. Same as someone else who suggested they saw off their horns and run. The guys, they're a prideful bunch, they're a vindictive duo, they can live on spite if they need to. What they are now is not who they were and will be. Nopony in the world can change them into what they will not want to be, and that means they will never ever allow Equestria to push them to those limits. Edward and Pierre are in it to win.
And ouch, balls, ouch. Transformation does not heal wound, y'know?Healingmagic on the other hand...6714358 As the two would say, "it's on the Equestrian's heads. They give us no choice."
They haven't broken half the elements, but they have infected them with a few new active ideas that contradict their preconceptions. Not passive ideas that can coexist with any other contradictory data, but active ideas, which they actually are thinking about. They are contaminated, at least from some perspectives, and that might well grow enough for it to be a serious problem.
I can't think of how you might convince the other three. Twilight at least, is probably futile to try and convince, at least without having support from the rest of the bearers. I have no idea how to convince Applejack unless she has the non-canon Truth Detection ability. (Not something ever shown in the show, just in fanfiction). Rainbow Dash is on the list of people who don't really value rational arguments and logic much, meaning another approach would be needed.
I think the biggest worry I would have is that Celestia might interfere. It seems she is a ruler-type Celestia, instead of Tyrant or Benevolent. She isn't Evil, or Good, (However you want to define those) so much as trying to keep her nation together and making decisions based on maintaining and advancing it.
Those history books were clearly biased. Meta-wise, it was intentional, I imagine. I don't think I could read one of those without cracking up laughing. Nopony would consider them odd however, due to the whole "indoctrination of the youth" thing. If those kind of history books are used, then is is pretty obvious that the "Real life" concept that you should distrust anything with bias. (and, although it takes effort so isn't done much, everything else due to the bias being hidden) It is clear that, unlike "Real Life", the standards for such books are not the same as the ones we use.
---
Is Unluck horn disease in any way related/based on AIDs?
----
While the math for Bicorn population growth seems to not work out, there are a few things that might explain it.
-Few if any families have a single child.
-9 children from the one example we have. That might well be on the high side, but i doubt it drops below 3.
-Unluck horn kills off 1/5.
-Family units are NOT 1 male to 1 female. Herds were explicity mentioned. That gives a minimum of 3 parents, with an unknown upper limit, practical or enforced.
-Some bicorns breed with "normal" ponies, which almost never results in a bicorn. (although occationally will result in a grandchild instead) Depending on how often this occurs, it could very well result in a significant reduction in BICORN birth rate.
-Bicorns are not killed off to make luck potion. (And probably not killed off for any other reason either)
We don't know those 9 siblings (or was it 8 + Fortune?) were all bicorns. Admittedly, if they weren't, I don't think they would be able to be considered siblings, due to them being on the reserve. However, some bicorns might end up not part of those family units, instead being used to add bicorn genes to "normal" ponies.
Overall, given that family units might be rather large, the corresponding number of siblings might well not be 3-5x per parent, but 1-2. And, if that were the case, unluck-horn could well be enough to limit or reverse the potential population growth.
----
I still think comparing Bicorn status to Teela Brown is a fascinating premise.
6805169 Actually, since bicorns are not allowed to pursue certain careers due to stress and danger avoidance, it's not uncommon for bicorns to never get their cutie marks.
"Ignorance is bliss"
"The truth hurts"
This is a fairly interesting read. Are you picking this up again at some point?
Dammit, everything they're saying is making them look like the sole survivors of bicorn herds from some sort of continent cleansing apocalypse