Sunset Shimmer got up and stretched, blinking in the morning sunshine. Smiling at the birds singing in the tree outside her window, she went downstairs. "Moning Mom, morning Dad."
Her mother, Orange Cream, looked over from the oven where she was preparing breakfast. She was a very good cook, as her cream cake cutie mark clearly showed. "Oh good morning dear! Any big plans for today?"
"Nah, Celestia doesn't have any major plans for me today." Sunset noted, taking a seat and waiting for some of her mom's very berry waffles. Every Thursday was waffle day, best day of the week.
"So does that mean you're free this evening?" Scarlet Shimmer asked, looking over his newspaper. "That'll be nice, you usually spend a lot of time working as the Princess's student."
"Yeah well, she does dictate a lot of responsibility for smaller things to me, but that's because she trusts me. Plus, who else is she going to trust it to? It's not like she has another student laying around." Sunset pointed out, breaking into a smile as she got her customary stack of three waffles...don't judge her they're that good. Celestia herself had asked for the recipe.
"Well its just, you've been very busy lately. If you're free this afternoon I figured maybe we could do something together as a family. See if we can get tickets for a show or something." her dad elaborated, taking a moment to turn to the entertainment section. "Unless you already made plans with your friends, I know how popular you are."
Swallowing a mouthful of waffle, Sunset shook her head. "Nah, most of my friends aren't free on weekdays. I'd love to go to a show with you guys." Finishing up her breakfast over small talk, she said her goodbyes and teleported to the palace to start another great day.
Her name is Sunset Shimmer, and her life is perfect.
****************
Twilight Sparkle, Grand High Mage, Graduate of Celestia, Mighty Mistress of Marvelous Magics (what can she say, she loved alliteration for her titles) was busy reading a tome of long lost knowledge. Well, lost until she had been able to discover the Long Lost Library of the Crystal Empire. That had been fun, she'd even run into Daring Doo for that adventure. ( They exchanged autographs, apparently the archeologist was a mutually appreciative fan.)
At present the Princess had no need for Twilight's advice or services, and none of the tomes seemed critically important (though a lot of them were culturally significant) she pondered maybe checking up on her good friends, the ones who had helped her the first time she saved the world. She ran through the list in her head.
Sunset Shimmer, her fellow graduate, would be very busy. It was a school holiday, meaning she'd be working with a lot of less fortunate children with her outreach community center. Twilight still felt like it was a bit of a waste of talent, but she couldn't fault Shimmer's heart; wanting to help less fortunate children lead a better life was an admirable ambition. Even though Twilight felt that it was a little personal on Shimmer's part when it came to her motivations, one could not deny the meaningful, positive impact she was having on those kids lives. Plus her fellow unicorn had really had her fill of adventure after the third time they saved the world, and deserved a chance to relax.
Rainbow Dash would be busy as District Coordinator for the Weather Bureau. After the whole Nightmare Moon incident, her career really took off. Twilight sometimes wondered if her fame had fast tracked things for the pegasus, but there was no denying Rainbow could do her job. Still, it was a very busy time with some upcoming complex weather systems, so Rainbow was definitely unavailable.
Masquerade was headlining a new show on Bridalway. She would probably be free after a show, and Twilight could even attend. Still, that should probably be a whole weekend trip, not just popping by for an afternoon.
Applejack was nice and all, but there was only so much time one could spend listening to her talk about apples with that accent of her's. Still, she was in Ponyville so she could make it a double visit and swing by to see Sweetie Drops, see how the planning is going for her big wedding. Twilight would have to remember to double check her calander, make sure the date was clear.
Having made up her mind, she called out "Spike! I'm taking the afternoon off to go see my friends in Ponyville. Will you be okay on your own for a while?"
"Yeah, no problem." Spike replied. "I'll just spend the time studying and doing chores, like always."
Flashing one last smile at HER student, Twilight teleported the distance from Canterlot to Ponyville. For somepony of her talents, it wasn't that great a challenge.
Her name is Twilight Sparkle, and her life is one of adventure and discovery.
****************
Applejack wiped some sweat off her brow as she beamed with pride at all the baskets of apples she'd managed to buck. Another rewarding hard days work.
"Applejack!" her father called from the house. "Come on in! It's supper, don't keep you're ma waitin'!"
"Commin' Pa!" Applejack called back as she headed in to wash up before supper.
Her name is Applejack Apple, and her life is simple and fulfilling.
****************
Masquerade Pantomime smiled a huge smile as she bowed again and again to the roaring applause of the crowds in the Canterlot Royal Opera. It was her third week performing there alongside her lifetime idol, the Great Poniachi. Even Princess Celestia, in attendance this night, was giving a standing ovation. Tears leaked from her emerald green eyes (a feature many a bold stalion had claimed was her most beautiful). As that moment, she felt on top of the world.
Her name is Masquerade Pantomime, and her life is one where dreams come true.
****************
Rainbow Dash, Captain of the Wonderbolts, flew in formation with the others for the show. Down below the fans cheered, waving rainbow colored flags, wearing rainbow wigs, and various other things to show how much they loved her. Banners declared her the greatest Wonderbolt of all time. Frowning in concentration, Dash decided to show off a little and breaks formation, now flying literal circles around her teammates...while going backwards. The crowds are eating it up, and even the Wonderbolts are taking it in good cheer. They know she's the best and they don't mind.
Her name is Rainbow Miriam Dash, and her life is
"Lame." Rainbow says, abandoning the show and landing on a nearby cloud. "Really, that's the best you could do? You might as well come on out."
Everything stopped. Everything. Suspended in the moment. A shimmering cloud of blue energy appeared, before solidifying into a miniature copy of Nightmare Moon. Though she was slightly smaller than dash, she didn't seem worried at all. "So, how did you figure it out?"
"Because you suck at this." Dash explained, smirking at the outraged look the mini-nightmare shot at her. "First of all, I'm guessing you just got my general dream. That I want to be a Wonderbolt and had to build from there?" Seeing the seething look she received Rainbow broke out into an even bigger grin. "I knew it! That's why you totally got everything wrong. You thought I was some sort of glory seeking attention hound and that's why I want to be a member of Equestria's number one areal sports team. Wow, you are DUMB."
"Oh? Why don't you enlighten me then." Mini-Moon demanded. "What did I get wrong in that oh so shallow dream of yours?"
"Everything." Dash noted, adopting a serious look. "I can see why you'd think that way, you're some spell thingy made by a mare who was so jealous she had to get rid of the sun so everypony would have to pay attention to her. Of course you'd see a dream like mine in the most selfish light. Heck, I bet the other's are having dreams where they're on top of the world right? All their wants and dreams fulfilled, no hard work?"
"Indeed. If you are unhappy with your dream, perhaps I can make it more to your liking?"
"Wow, you really are bad at this." Dash sad, shaking her head sadly. "I don't want to be a Bolt to be declared the best flyer ever or something. I already know how good I am, I don't need my ego constantly fed. I want to do it to inspire a new generation the way I was inspired."
"I can give you that." Mini-Moon promised, eyes glittering with the promise of pleasure.
"Yaeh, but let me ask you a couple of questions. First of all, if I could get it without any hard work, what's the point? The struggle is half the reason to even try something like this. Second of all, do you know how I got my cutie mark?"
"No. Why is that even relevant?"
"Because it's the best and worst thing I ever did. See, I entered a race to help a good friend of mine, and I knocked her off a cloud at the starting line without even realizing it. I was so focused on winning, on proving I was the best, that I forgot why I was racing in the first place. To help a friend. I got so focused on me, that I hurt the very pony that I was supposed to be helping. She was okay in the end, but let me tell you it was a real eye opener, and now every time I look at my cutie mark I'm reminded of the fact that I used to be a colossal, selfish jerk. I have spent a lot of my life trying o make up for it and be a better pony."
Mini-Moon rolled her eyes. "That still doesn't explain what it has to do with anything."
"I'll tell you what it has to do with anything. It means you don't get anything about me." Dash turned on her, quite obviously angry. "Because there is one thing you didn't consider. No matter how good you made this dream, it would never be good enough. The are ponies all over Equestria counting on me and the others to stop Nightmare Moon and save the day...literally. If you think I'm going to wallow in some selfish, shallow dream while others need my help, you are dead wrong. Rainbow Dash always helps those who need it. And right now, the best way to help a lot of ponies is to kick your flank and wake everypony up so we can slam your boss back into the moon!"
The Mini-Moon stopped looking pleasant. And stopped being mini. Now standing twenty stories tall, crackling with energy, she bellowed. "Fool! I may be just a spell construct, but I am still the power of Nightmare Moon! What makes you think you can stand against me?"
"That brings me to my third question. Want to know how I knew this was a dream?" Rainbow asked. Seeing the Mega-Moon's hesitation, she smiled as she elaborated. "See I used to have nightmares as a kid, so my dad taught me this neat trick. It's called lucid dreaming. You find a flaw in the dream, realize you are dreaming, and then you have total control of the dream." Seeing her enemies look of horror, Dash smiled very cheekily. "But then again I guess it would make sense if you never heard of it. After all, you're just a magic potato."
And indeed it was just a normal potato. Suspended twenty stories in the air. "I hate you so much." the potato stated before it fell to splat on the ground. However, it was already starting to, very slowly, pull itself together. "You...fool! I...will not...be...beaten...so...easily! There is...nothing...you can do...to stop me! Nothing!"
"Oh really?" Dash asked as she flew upwards, gaining some serious air. "Fourth, and final, question. Want to see what I did to earn my cutie mark?" Rainbow Dash proceeded to dive at maximum velocity.
And then the sky exploded.
*******************
"I do."
The pastor nodded. "And do you, Sweetie Drops, take her in turn as your lawfully wedded wife? To have and to hold, in good times in bad, in sickness and health, for richer or poorer, in peace or giant monster attacks, till death do you part?"
Sweetie Drops was crying tears of joy. She always cried at weddings, and apparently her own was no exception. "I do."
"Then by the power invested in me by the Princess herself, I now proclaimed you wives. You may now kiss."
Sweetie leaned in for a passionate embrace...when some idiot decided to hit her upside the head.
******************
"Ow!" Sweetie exclaimed, snapping awake. Looking around, she saw a rather apologetic looking "Rainbow Dash! I was having the most wonderful dream!"
"Yeah, sorry, but we all were." Dash explained. "Nightmare Moon trap. You're not the only one upset." She looked over her shoulder at the others. Twilight looked rather glum, scratching circles in the dirt. Masquerade looked quite down herself, her hoof drifting towards the gems she had instead of eyes a couple of times before she stopped herself. Applejack looked like somepony had run over her dog with a train, and Sunset, if anything, looked worse. Dash sighed, she had been afraid of this. "Look, guys. I'm sorry that you were happy, but we do not have time for this. The whole world is counting on us, we don't have time to just be thinking of ourselves."
"Right. Princess Celestia and everypony else is counting on us. We don't have time to be selfish." Twilight said, smiling weakly.
"Yeah, we should get back to saving everypony." Masquerade agreed, before glaring. "And also kick Nightmare Moon's flank for doing this to us."
"Agreed." AJ said with a grim nod. "Sunset, any way we can set it up so that she's constantly on fire while she's stuck in the moon?"
"After what she did to me? Fire would be letting her off easy." Sunset said, trying to stand up, before collapsing on her haunches, eyes streaming tears. "Stupid dreams."
Sweetie didn't know what dreams her friends had experienced, but one thing was sure. This was quite possibly the most evil thing that Alicorn could have done to her friends. "Oh, oh my. Rainbow, dear, I think everypony could use some hugs and moral support right now." See the pegasus's concerned look, she smiled. "My dream is readily doable. I think the others had better ones."
"My dream is...mostly doable." Masquerade admitted. "A couple details were overly exaggerated, but I can still do it someday. It's not likely, but if I work hard I can someday have something just as good." Her smile returned as she considered this.
"Same here." Twilight admitted. "Sure the details would be different, but the general idea? I'm well on track to be there in just a few years." Streightening herself up, she asked "What about you two?"
"Mine was...I can't do mine. Things were just...a bit different. Enough to make it better, but still not something I can control, ya know?" AJ admitted. "Still, other than that life's just as good as the dream I suppose. Sunset, what about you?"
"I had a mom and dad and they loved me." Sunset admitted. She soon found herself in a group hug, five ponies embracing her and giving her support as she cried it all out. "Stupid dreams."
5402592 Thank you. Coming from a fellow Sunset AU author, that means a lot. I will admit I am not a fan of your story, it's too dark for my tastes, but I can appreciate your writing skills and your courage to redraft the world to really show its nature as an AU. That takes guts. And while I don't agree with the end results, I do have to admire your bravery for attempting it and your skill for pulling it off excellently.
Wow, that...that was heavy. Admittedly, in the show they didn't fall asleep on the way so NMM couldn't pull this...but damn.
Also, loved Rainbow's lucid dreaming.
"You're just a magic potato!"
5402562
I'm glad my silly joke was good for a laugh at that moment.
You will pay for that, Nightmare Moon! You shall PAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!!!
Twilight's dream friends made sense in context. Applejack is literally all about apples and Rainbow is a high ranking weather manager because that's all Twilight knows about them from the few hours they've been friends.
5402726 I turned you off? Well...thanks for the kind words anyways.
Keep up the good work and another lovely chapter. It's kind of neat seeing Rainbow has already curbed her selfishness already.
5403105 Not everyone will like every story you write, sorry. But that's just why you write the story you want to tell. Write like nobody is reading but you.
In the name of the moon, I shall punish you!
Dang it, I just know I heard the whole magic potato thing before, but where? WHERE? For the life of me, I just can't remember!
I think you meant "alliteration", illiteration sounds like the exact kind of thing Twilight wouldn't want for her titles.
5403219 Really? Cause I kind of made that up. Somebody else had the same idea, really?
YOU SHALL DIE A THOUSAND DEATHS NIGHTMARE MOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good chapter. Update soon.
5402348
It's the dark magic part specifically, the barest touch of it causes her to start crying in pain while twilight uses it no problems as the show goes on.
She's never sought power or had to deal with the consequences of wielding power. It's not remotely central to her character.
The seduction of seeking knowledge over wisdom is far more central to twilight's character arc, and how she approaches magic than raw power.
Speaking of twilight's character there's the issue of her cutie mark, if she isn't getting the element of magic and 5 people whose lives exist solely for her benefit because destiny says so, well it doesn't make sense anymore.
Sunset's recharge mechanic doesn't really fit with her core self, the cutiemark is a literally and textually a manifestation of the soul, what does drawing magic from the sun have to do with defining sunset's essential nature?
While sunset's essential nature absolutely has to do with power, her magic is powerful, her personality is powerful, she actively seeks political power/alicornhood. The sun cutiemark then represents not only her much deeper connection to Celestia but probably literally reaching for the Sun, things beyond her grasp or that might burn her by doing grasping for.
Or in it's two toned nature that might be double edged sword, I've seen very good arguments that sunset's special talent is overachieving her goals. World of cardboard fits sunset's character far more than it does twilight's, if it fits either.
You're falling into a trap with that thinking. With that thinking you'll render one of them redundant either way.
Is rarity redundant? No. Because she does things differently. Focus on how they do things differently.
Poor Sunset...
I actually started looking for Sunset Redemption fics a few months before Rainbow Rocks and I'm so happy I did. After seeing that movie, she is one of my new FAV characters.
Never really read an AU before, so I'm presently enjoying this.
Remember that chapter about idiots? Yeah, I laughed nearly the whole time afterwards.
5403250 To me, it almost sounded like a refrence to Portal 2 when GLaDOS says "Because I'm a potato." Could just be me being way to obsessed with that game though.
This is actually shaping up to be a very nice AU so far, and I can actually see a marked improvement in the overall grammar and spelling quality in the last two chapters, as well. You should probably have your pre-reader/editor go over the first six chapters with a fine-tooth comb to get them cleaned up, but overall, this is well done.
5403450 Huh, and another reader is complaining I'm giving Twilight too much power. Anyway, you're making a (small and understandable since I haven't explained it in story) error. Twilight has a 10x mana reserve, this says nothing about her casting ability. Sunset, currently at 1x, could cast circles around the average unicorn even without recharge ability. TNT is a good example actually. Ten sticks of the stuff have a very different impact if they are channeled than if they are allowed to do a general spread. They had the same amount of energy, but since one was more focused it had a dramatically bigger impact. A good part of their training is how to focus and use their energy more efficiently. Highly Energy Efficient + Incredible Focus + Ridiculous Amounts of Magic to Work With = Twilight.
5403999 Hey, thanks for all the compliments and comments! They were fun to read. Also, my pre-reader isn't a Brony, just a good friend, so getting him to go over a lot of old stuff seems a lot to ask.
5403450
Rainbow dash can hit mach 10, she's an exceptional but not incredibly awe inspiring pegasus. Oh and -rarity0 can survive being caught at mach 10 while falling.
Applejacks kicks have the force of a bus ramming into you at 60 miles an hour, while all it takes is her and big mack to harvest an entire orchard larger than most commercial farms.
MLP is a crazy high magic setting.
Four average earth ponies make a better engine for a train than a mechanical one.
Canon Alicorn twilight doesn't seem to possess any more magical muscle than she did as a unicorn. (At a guess because she now has to develop all her magical muscles and she hasn't been working on pegasus or earth pony magic.)
Either way Canon Unicorn Sunset is supposed to be noticeably more powerful than Unicorn twilight so you've got to ask.
The core point being. Do you want a character wellllll past twilicorn's power level?
Canon pretty clearly says nope.
You can't access the elements power without the tokens is extremely explicit and constantly confirmed, the only charecter to ever break that rule and use the rainbow of light without the elements is sunset shimmer In EQG2, and arguably helped in EQG1(The rainbow there had seven colors, the seventh color was white, all other plot rainbows outside EQG are six colored.)
5404179
Well for one It's pretty core to EQG1's story that Twilight IS the second rate replacement for Sunset.
Sunset states as much point blank to twilight in EQG1. She knows more about the elements of harmony and what the sixth element without having to figure it out, she was being groomed for what got thrust upon twilight.
Of course destiny had other plans than Celestia's designs, but hey.
"Talented" can mean a lot of things, not just raw power. Twilight is almost certainly better at breadth than sunset is i would imagine.
Or we can chalk up to the list of continuity snarls that happen after 4 seasons and six years, like showing thousand years ago celestia as luna sized with pink hair then looking as she does now during the flash back. Or Starswirl going from "Obscure figure from the pre-classical era" to "World renown figure around the same time as princesses".
Ponies that hold back or get held back Go crazy, it's one of those things that separates humans from ponies, they use their special talent or they snap. See sunset, See Luna, See a shit ton of episodes.
There's no reason to think Twilight is holding back, Neither of the younger Alicorns display incredible power, Alicorn transformation just doesn't seem to do anything in the immediate sense but give you new "Magic Muscles" to work with, "Muscles" which twilight has ignored entirely.
5404123 I am not complaining that Twi is to strong. Just the opposite. It seems to me that Twilight is too weak compared to her canon ability. I honestly think that she may be closer to twenty times stronger than average unicorns, minimum, as opposed to ten. And 20 times the strength of a unicorn would give her really good reasons to feel like she is in a world of cardboard.
When you point out the skill and casting efficiency thing though, that does make a huge difference and puts Twilight much closer to her canon ability level. I was thinking along the lines of every unicorn uses X units of magic to cast the illumination spell, while you are saying that Twilight is using something like X-Z or X/Y or something like that. That makes total sense.
5404145 Keep in mind that I have not watched EQG in quite a while, and do not remember all the details. I need to watch EQG again to see if Twilight was stated to be weaker than Sunset, or less skilled. My entire argument falls apart if it is magical strength. If it was skill, then my argument may stand.
AJ and RD are shown to be exceptionally powerful, thus they do not work as baselines. Rainbow pulling 16.5 wingpower was with her holding back from the full Rainboom which is probably way more powerful. She was probably going at the top speed she could without causing atmospheric ripples that would throw off the other pegasai to a catastrophic degree. We have never seen a proper comparison of what she is capable of pulling off when she is not holding back compared to ponies like the Wonderbolts. As for Rainbow catching Rarity, pegasai have demonstrated the power to extend their magic to objects in physical contact with them (see Feeling Pinkie Keen). She was probably able to extend an inertia dampening field over the Bolts and Rarity to stop them from being torn apart by the sudden angular acceleration. Big Mac seems to be even stronger than AJ and thus is also not a poor baseline of earth pony strength.
The earth ponies may have been acting as an additional power source to the train, not necessarily the primary force of motion considering that in MMMistery on the Friendship Express, there was an engine to the train that had something burning for locomotive power. Also, earth pony magic and biology seems designed for incredible strength, durability, and endurance. Thus pulling a train (or house) is part of the power set.
Edit: The train in Over a Barrel is the only one I can remember that had ponies pulling it. All the others seem to run on their own. The one in Three's a Crowd looked like a crazy fast modern-crystal-hybrid monorail or Maglev train engine.
We have hardly seen Twilight use magic in Season 4. The times we do, it is simple things like levitation. The exceptions are Bats, It Ain't Easy Being Breezies, and Twilight's Kingdom. The spell in Bats went wrong, possibly because it was an abnormally difficult spell. IAEBB actually went well, but was later in the season. Twilight's Kingdom had Twi with the magic of all four princesses, and thus is not even close to what she is like on her own. Speaking of Twilight's Kingdom, when the princesses say that they were going to give Twilight all their magic, she says that she is barely in control of the magic she got as an alicorn, possibly meaning that she got a boost to unicorn magic.
Like you pointed out, she has been focusing on training her earth pony and pegasus magic, thus has not been focusing on unicorn. She may have a location miles from Ponyville where she goes to practice her unicorn magic off screen so that she does not level the town with a single spell if she messes up.
Again, I do not remember if Sunset had Unicorn Twilight beat in the magical strength department, or the skill department.
That section of my comment was going into crazy WMG territory that could only be true in an AU. Based on the fact that the other Elements used to look like generic jemstones and turned into their current forms when the M6 took them, while the Element of Magic has always been the 6-pointed star, I came to the hypothesis that she has been holding onto part of its power her whole life. Her special talent is wielding/being the Element of Magic. If this is the case, then Twilight is unknowingly using the Crown as a Magic Feather type deal. She cannot use its power without the crown because she is convinced she cannot.
The idea that she is the Element given flesh is just an AU idea that I wanted to explore. It is the rambling of a weirdo named Zocarik, ie me. I am aware that my ideas in this case are probably crazy.
5404303 Woomod is complaining Twi is too strong. You were saying she is too weak before I threw in engine-efficiency ratios to the discussion.
5404257
That could be a matter of skill and education, not power. That, and while Twilight obeys authority figures, like Celestia, Sunset was getting into forbidden tomes that were not meant to be read by her. Forbidden does not mean evil. After all, would you allow a five year old near the 'adult literature' section of a library? Or any of Stephen King's horror novels? That could be why Twilight knows comparably little about the Elements when put next to Sunset.
And how do we know Sunset was not calling Twilight second rate to play mind games, unless Celestia outright said that Sunset had Twilight beat in both skill and power. In which case my argument falls apart. I really need to watch that movie again.
I think I pointed that out somewhere. Twilight may be less skilled, while Sunset may be less powerful.
I do agree with you that continuity is getting snarled as the show goes on. Care to have a discussion on how Starswirl could be both the "Obscure figure from the pre-classical era" and "World renown figure around the same time as princesses". I am sure that if a bunch of people work on that, we could come to a solution that fits canon. We would have to take it over to a group forum.
Remember Lesson Zero and It's About Time? Being forced to hold back around the fragile little village and ponies of Ponyville could have been a contributing factor. Throughout The Return of Harmony, Twilight barely used magic beyond the Fail-safe Spell (which failed) and the Memory Spell. She did not have a chance to unleash her full power on Discord, who could have taken it. Twilight did unleash a bunch of power in A Canterlot Wedding, which may explain why she is stable throughout Season 3. Twilight may be going out to some empty field and cutting loose to avoid going crazy in the future.
Why she did not go crazy in Canterlot years ago? She has been with Celestia, who could let Twilight go all out while containing the damage to a small area.
Shining Armor can shield a city, which is his talent, therefor cannot be used to judge his full power because it is easier for him. He is strong, but not monstrously strong. Cadence can shield the Crystal City and a large swath of land beyond. This is despite the fact that she is not talented in shields. That would make the accomplishment far more impressive than it looked. Remember that it was implied that she had been holding that shield for days without food or sleep.
We have barely seen Twilight use magic since her ascension. She may be training off screen to get used to her new power. She even stated in Twilight's Kingdom that she barely has control of her new power as an alicorn before being given the power of the other princesses. This implies, though it does not confirm, that she had a power boost to her unicorn magic. She could be referring to lacking control of her pegasus, earth pony, and alicorn magics, but her unicorn magic could have been included (if alicorn magic simply referred to the magic of ponies that have all three, why would Tirek make it sound like a different type? If it was merely the combo of all three, then he would have had it already once he had drained all the other ponies in Equestria. He consistently treated Alicorn magic as something else).
In point of fact, Sunset Shimmer playing mind games with Twilight was my default assumption about that scene in the first EQG movie. And I'm pretty sure that Celestia never said word one about Sunset's power relative to Twilight's - just that she was a former student.
One thing that's of interest to note however, is that while it's heavily implied (especially in the comics), it's not explicitly confirmed that Sunset was Celestia's protege, so it's entirely possible that Shim Shady was just an ordinary student at CSGU. (Not bloody likely, but still possible.) So really, all this talk about who is more powerful may just be a bunch of pissing in the wind.
5404805
In the movie the very first words out of Celestia's mouth when twilight returns are "How is sunset shimmer?" Not how is the all important magical device that protects my kingdom, not are you safe twilight, the most important thing to Celestia is sunset shimmer, fuck my kingdom and that other princess how is the student who ran away?
The IDW comic makes it clear just how much she meant that, when Celestia's response to sunset saying this will be one of the worst mistakes of her life is "Yes, i know." over a picture of her banishment of nightmare moon. Placing her removal of sunset on at the very least a personal level as painful as her banishment of her own sister.
Whereas i'm of the opposite opinion and i get there by looking at the characters.
Twilight seeks knowledge often the detriment of seeking wisdom(Which the show states wisdom and enlightenment are vastly more valuable and powerful), it's very core to her character that her quest for knowledge and not knowing when to use that knowledge get her into trouble.
While sunset is about power, her desire for it leads her astray, and when we see a picture of her the way she should be at the end of EQG2 she exudes power and confidence in a way that twilight never does. I expect her magical talent to look a lot like Celestia's except possibly more ability to chuck around fireballs and sun lasers.(Celestia as we've seen is far from a competent battle mage, where Sunset does seem to have the temperament to chuck a fireball in a bad mood even when not a monster.)
So my argument goes that Twilight is more talented in her ability to learn ALL MAGIC at a high level, While Sunset has more RAW POWER with what she does do. And it's why during EQG1 she views Twilight as so second rate, all she's respecting at that point is power.
I mean twilight isn't the best with every single spell, Just in the main six we see rarity is much more adept at telekinesis throughout the show even if she can't do the raw oompf twilight can, she seems a lot more efficient at it and is capable of far more fine manipulation.
I don't think you can, So i'm willing to buy pre-classical means pre-equestria, classical being the era between the founding and the princesses, and modern being post princesses. That makes some sense. But eras are long ass times. Because pre-classical means about 5,000 years ago on earth.
You also have his varying characterizations, from one note "Twilight is a nerd" joke, to "Twilight done wrong"(tbf probably the most -useful- characterization.), to "Some guy who did some thing in the past because we need a name" and for some reason we don't use Smart Cookie/Clover the Clever/Private pansy despite them you know founding equestria and being the first ponies to use the magic of friendship in history.
Mach 10 -is- rainboom, She can hit about half that without doing a rainboom.
AJ is never shown to be exceptionally talented outside her well special talent. As another example maud pie breaks a rock in seconds.
Yeah the train between canterlot and ponyville only takes 2-3 hours by steam/coal, not worth pony power.
It's the several day train journey in over the barrel which used pony power.
Well yeah no arguments there.
The six pointed star is the symbol of magic, twilight's talent is magic.
AU you can do what you want, but canonically twilight does need the crown to use the elements power, I mean EQG1s plot hinges on it quite heavily. (Though it was always her destiny to wield it, the symbol of magic with five smaller stars around it after all. just as it was always cadence destiny to protect the crystal heart. Cutie marks can have deeper meanings than originally thought.)
5406271
Bear with me here. I am trying to make sure I understand your thought processes correctly and do not make a fool of myself.
So you are saying that Twilight may learn spells to a finer degree and faster, while Sunset is more adept at putting more power into the spells she already knows? That sounds reasonable. Like Shining Armor putting up a shield covering a city when others would need exponentially more power to achieve the same effect. Under that hypothesis, Sunset would be skilled at emulating the talents of others to the same degree as the originals, while Twilight would learn all spells easier, just not to the same effectiveness level.
I have only one counter argument to Twilight being weaker while Sunset being more skilled. One that focuses on the World of Cardboard idea in this and other fics. Twilight may be so powerful that she spends all her time trying to both hold back the power while refining her control. All her skill comes from intense practice. Thus, she bottles up the power and never lets it show, which would be an additional strain that would slow training. Sunset, having less power, would be more easily able to pick up skill with the spells she has because she is not having to hold back everything else.
Additionally, Twilight spent her years as Celestia's student seemingly locking herself in the library. She would not know how to project an aura of power and control. Sunset became a bully in canon which trained her to use power over others.
To put it another way, Twilight seeks skill because she has more power than she needs; she has no reason to pursue more. She needs skill and thus trains for it. Sunset has skill, but feels that she needs more power, so she seeks to get more in any form: political, social, magical. They both need wisdom.
You may be right on this one. There is one confirmed exception.
Remember Three's a Crowd? Cadance's train went from the Northern extremes of Equestria to Ponyville at what appeared to be high speed. While the faster train technology may be limited to Royal trains, it shows that at least one train runs better on its own than with earth pony pullers. Others may be better with pony power.
I did not say that I could solve this one on my own. I said that if a bunch of bronies started brainstorming, we could come up with a plausible explanation. For example, Starswirl's wing in the Archives has time spells. That could explain why he shows up over a seemingly vast expanse of history. We have a collective intellect high enough to figure it out, even if I do not.
It would require coming to an agreement on a timeline. My idea is: Pre-Classical > Post Unification > Tirek and Scorpan appear and are stopped, one in Tartarus, one going home > Discord's Era (coming to Equestria from somewhere else, explaining how Tirek heard of him) > Princesses Age > Sombra a few decades before NMM > Nightmare Moon/1000 year banishment/Age of the Single Alicorn > Season 1. I think everything between Unification to The Age of the Single Alicorn is the Classical era, The AotSA is modern. How silly is this hypothesis? Is it even remotely plausible? If this is going any further, we should really take this to a forum over in a group somewhere. Tell me if I should set it up tomorrow.
5403250
That's it! I remember! That Foster's home for Imaginary Friends episode where Bloo broke Mac's handheld game!
5406848 Wow. I don't even like that show. How did we have the same idea?
5406864
I think the Muppets used it at some point in their show too.
5406724
Something like that yes.
Twilight has a huge ability to learn just about any spell(pushed as a thing constantly), and is quite powerful with spells she does know.
While sunset has more raw oomph with the subset of spells she can use, we don't know exactly what sunset's talent is canonically but it's definitely not "Is good with magic in general".
Shining Armor's shield spell is a great example yeah, it's a thing twilight can't copy because his talents are protective and defensive magic so he's far more effcient at it.
Or Weather magic which trixie and a cutie mark swapped rarity used but in general appears to be impossible to learn for unicorns, even twilight.
So did sunset in IDW.
Though i expect sunset's education was generally much more diverse than twilight's considering everything.
That's not how cutie marks and magic work in the mlpverse though, they are manifestations of the soul, In the greek sense(ie the soul of a knife is cutting). The unchangeable essential nature of a thing.
Knowledge and the quest therefore is fundamental to who twilight is.
Power and the quest therefore is fundamental to who sunset is.
If such were the case both would be failing to live upto their destinies and not being true to themselves, where very much EQG2 shows sunset shimmer IS finally being true to herself in shine like rainbows, where she exudes power in a way twilight simply never has.
5407023
5406724
Guys, I am glad you're having a civil debate (on the Internet no less). However, it's kind of clogging up the comments. Could you please transfer over to PMs or the like?
... Twilight's fantasy involves Spike being content to sit at home while she goes out and adventures, and just do chores for her? Oh, and "study", while she goes out and y'know... has friendships.
I... I'm torn. On one hand, her being totally okay with Spike barely moving on with his life at all, and having his life not be about adventure and friendship at all seems very in character for early Twilight, and would explain a lot of how she treats him. On the other hand... it's still pretty bad.
5407100
Sorry :D
5407023 Starswirl and Timeline hypothesis ideas go here.
5407100 I will go clog up the forums with the random WMG. Sorry for that.
5407211 Yeah Twilight is not the most insightful pony. *points to Bureaucrat Dash* That is what she thinks RD's dream is after all.
5407676
I don't recall it being established she was actually an adult when she left Celestia. She could have been younger than canon Twilight at the beginning of the series... 5 years is still a little small for Celestia to take Twilight in and raise her to canon age though. Sometimes I think the only way to reconcile the movie timelines is for time to pass differently in Equestria and the mirror world. That way Sunset could run away in her early teens and spend three years winning prom crowns while nine or twelve pass in Equestria.
Obviously, this solution doesn't work for this story, though.
5407908
Making Sunset discovered later in life does make the ages you want match up, I suppose. Sixteen seems a little young for Twilight to me, but I suppose her friends could be a little older or moving out to run your own business happen a little earlier in age than I expected.
Very interesting premise and well done characters. At first I was hesitant about replacing Pinkie, Flutter, and Rarity but the three "new" characters aren't bad (and I very much like Sunset and want her to actually be part of the main show anyway instead of just the movies). I also greatly enjoy your reimagining of the trials set forth by Nightmare Moon. All in all some good stuff here and I will definitely be following this for the foreseeable future.
Also don't worry about the whole age thing. It's not like the ages of the characters are anywhere near as "set" or "obvious" as people seem to be making them out to be in the show. We also have no idea what Sunset was like when she ran away since it was never shown in the movie. It's your AU and if you want them to be 23 and 16 and have it be a 5 year jump then that's what it is.
5410097 Well it's still technically the same day after all, the sun hasn't risen yet for "tomorrow".
5415352 Thanks. And yeah, canon ages are out of wack in the show..in that they don't really have them. Hell, Dash has twenty three candles on her cake, so does that mean the girls are in their twenties? I know some people in their twenties that could pass for teens after all.
5420024 ...I'm guessing English isn't your first language if you don't get the double speak there.
5420761 while you are right about english being my second language that is not all I also have trouble with "double discours". In short my grasp of English is as lose as that of my french.
When I learn language I put more emphasis in the "how do you pronounce that" than on the "what does that mean in a words I would understand". so I do have a vast vocabulary of words I half understand both in english and french.
5421100 Alright then. I will explain. Double speak is an expression. It means to lie by telling the truth in such a way as to trick people. For example, saying that you never shot a person...and leaving out the part where you stabbed them instead.
What Celestia wrote seems to say "there is no threat from Nightmare Moon", when what she is really saying is "I have a plan to defeat Nightmare Moon so you don't need to worry." She is tricking them by telling the truth. Double speak.
Damn, that was a kick to the gut. *Hands out sticks to everyone else* Just remember to leave a piece for me!
Okay, all joking aside? I loved this. Awesome bits of Rainbow Dash, there.
That was fun. Looking forward to more.
Keep up the good work. Deus tecum.
*Still waiting for them to use pomegranates.*
5420076 ...It was a joke. It was misspelt "Susnet".
Would "Mini-Moon" be a call back to the old Sailor Moon dub years ago?