With a new episode airing today, we can automatically expect fics and one-shots based on it to be submitted and approved in mountains, as is the case every week. People complain about fics that follow a trend, claiming to dislike "bandwagon" stuff, but is it possible that this trend is itself a bandwagon scenario, as well? Does a fic have to restrict itself to just copying the basic idea of a previous fic to be considered part of a bandwagon, or can an entire trend of fic-writing based on new episodes be included without even closely resembling the ideas of similar fics? ("Brotherhooves Social" and Friendship Games especially gave us piles of fics, and the two aren't really related).

And if it is a bandwagon deal, then does it deserve the same scorn as trends like 2nd person romance stories and Displaced fics? If not, why? And if so, then why bother with "bandwagon" fics in the first place? After all, many fics on this site were based on episodes, past and present. Are they a part of the "bandwagon", too? Does that make them all worthy of the same disapproval? If so, does writing fics about the show itself count? Where exactly is the line drawn?

Your thoughts?

4769271 Eh, I don't have as much a problem with episode related fanfics if they're done well. No idea is completely dead on arrival, most of the time. Execution is what can make or break a fic.

4769271

If so, does writing fics about the show itself count?

My friend, that is the very essence of fan fiction.

4769271 It all depends on how overdone it is. Second person and displaced, the examples you gave, are horribly overdone and instantly gather hate. Fics based on episodes are completely new, so the only thing people would dislike is writing fics based on episodes as a whole. That doesn't happen too much.

4769282 Very true. But if the theory is correct, then it's entirely possible that everyone who has posted a fic on this site is guilty of jumping on a bandwagon.

4769271
I don't think of a swarm of episode-related fics as a bandwagon. I think of it as a community writing prompt. It's no more problematic than any writing prompt challenge.

4769293 That's precisely why I think you're reading too much into it. Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?

4769271 Absolutely it's bandwagoning, and I love it.

Take me to the top, new episode!

I don't really have an issue with people writing fics based on the newest episode so much as everyone who rushes out like 1-2k words of shoddy crud because theirs has to be first and most relevant.

4769271 I think most of the objection to it comes from stories that are hastily rushed together and posted the same day the episode aired. The essence of the problem is that new material has been given out, and people smell feature box bait if they can be the first to capitalize on the episode's ideas and put a story together. Ideally you should be taking some time to process ideas and think of ways to expand upon them, and then go through the standard procedure of writing, revising, and getting second opinions.

Just, generally speaking, when tons of stories get submitted that are all about the same thing and all go up at roughly the same time, then you've got a bandwagon scenario. It looks like everybody's trying to capitalize on the attention that story idea happens to be getting at the moment, and hopes that simply by writing a story about that thing, it'll get a lot of readers regardless of quality.

4769330
Or perhaps some people have trouble concentrating for long periods, and when they get inspired, they have to put it down immediately. Twice now, I've had an idea spark from a new episode, and put it down and posted it in a matter of hours. Not because of some sort of ‘me first’ mentality, but because I knew if I didn't latch onto it right away, the inspiration would leave and I'd sink back into my semi-perpetual writer's block.

4769348 In such a scenario I think you're probably better off writing it down, then using the next few days to keep thinking about the story and revising it with the help of an editor. Also I'm talking purely about perceptions here, I'm not going to say that this is always the case. Sure, some of the people who do this are actually writing because they love the craft - I'd say that even the people who are just jumping into a me-too story still love the craft - but when tons of stories all about the same thing get posted in short order, all of them look like poorly thought-out attention grabs whether or not that's what they actually are.

4769271
I'd hesitate to call all episode fics a bandwagon or even just featurebait. My friends and I have written stories before where we just really liked something from an episode and wanted to write it. I think that's what most of them are for, really. It gets to be difficult to avoid looking at them cynically, though, when there ends up being a large amount of hype around an episode or a new character. Once half the box becomes centered around the new episode, it becomes hard to tell how many new fics are from people who are writing because they absolutely adored the new characters or whatever and how many are from people looking for their fifteen minutes of fame.

4769356
If I allow myself to think things over, the story dies. I second-guess myself into oblivion.

Maybe it's time to work on changing that perception?

4769373 No, I personally think it's entirely well-deserved. If you want to claim to be the exception, that's fine, but you're submitting yourself to something that has a bad reputation for a very good reason. We need more people writing original ideas instead of just parroting the episode and rushing the story out quickly.

I mean, honestly, if you're not thinking your stuff over at all, then, no personal offense intended, you're kind of part of the problem.

4769386
Writing an episode inspired fic is not at all the same as ‘parroting the episode’. And it bothers me that you seem fine with possibly having a misconception of a large number of people.

4769400 Writing an episode-inspired fic is not the problem. There's nothing inherently bad about writing a story based on something you saw in an episode and got inspired to write. Rushing out a thousand words or so of unedited, sloppy writing without trying to fix it up or really do anything with it is the problem. Which is what you're essentially admitting to right here. Maybe instead of asking for the entire site culture to change to stop viewing these bad stories poorly, you should work on your writing habits so that your stuff can be more polished when it goes out.

Are... are we really going to have an argument about whether editing and quality control are good things to do? Come on, man...

4769414
No, I'm having an argument about being mean to people who have trouble. If you're going to make fun of people, they aren't going to improve; they're going to leave.

Also:

Writing an episode-inspired fic is not the problem.
We need more people writing original ideas instead of just parroting the episode and rushing the story out quickly.

The second sentence implies that there are two problems: Rushing the story out quickly, and parroting the episode.

And it's really annoying when someone says a variation of ‘no offense’. In fact, it does the exact opposite of its intent, increasing any offense given. If you are going to say something offensive, don't pretend that qualifying it makes it better.

4769271
Isn't that just fanfiction? New canon is out, people write about it.

4769308
OK, I could definitely see that being annoying.

4769330

people smell feature box bait

People are a little too obsessed over the feature box, TBH. Plus, if you're writing garbage, that's just gonna catch up with you eventually. Bunch of people see your rushed episode fic in the feature box, check your other stories, find they're bad, dislike, and suddenly your entire collection of work has a fresh batch of new downvotes. I can imagine that could be damaging to the ego of someone so focused on getting into the feature box. :P

4769436 You're reading a lot more into what I've said than I've actually put there. I've talked specifically about episode-related stories here because that's the topic, and you're now going after that instead of what the actual problem is, which isn't specific to episode-related stories.

Any excuse you have about "I can't think about it or it falls apart!" are things you need to slap yourself out of sooner rather than later, because they'll kill you. Any story, regardless of subject matter, should be edited and thought about before posting. Effort should be put in to make it a quality product. If you can't or don't want to do that, you're part of the problem. It's that simple.

4769481

I've talked specifically about episode-related stories here because that's the topic, and you're now going after that instead of what the actual problem is, which isn't specific to episode-related stories.

You were staying on topic, but when I also stuck to the topic, I'm making a mistake? You basically admitted that you considered the influx of new stories after an episode to be necessarily bad. There are multiple problems you touched on, and I am disputing one of them specifically.

Any excuse you have about "I can't think about it or it falls apart!" are things you need to slap yourself out of sooner rather than later, because they'll kill you.

It must be nice being able to write easily, and sitting there on your high horse making fun of people who can't. Do you think I haven't tried to slap myself out of it? I've been trying for years. You are effectively deriding people who are trying to improve, rather than already being excellent writers. If you want to talk about quality control, go to EQD. There's a reason Fimfiction is popular: It allows people who suck at writing to still post things, so they can improve.

4769509 Get your pompous ass out of here. Writing is HARD. Planning a story and keeping to it to the end, all while making changes and edits to turn out a quality product, is not easy for anyone. Your problem is that you give up too easily. Quit your complaining.

4769509

There are multiple problems you touched on, and I am disputing one of them specifically.

I said parroting the episode, in the sense that people just add some dumb twist to it, or any number of other quick attention-grab premises to quickly fill out 1,000 words, is a bad idea. I never directly accused you of doing that, nor did I intend to imply that's what you did. But, once again, the problem there isn't that those stories are about the episode. I'm not even remotely saying that episode-based stories are inherently bad. I object to poorly-written and unedited nonsense thrown up without a second thought. Every week during the season we get a fresh round of those because the episode is a popular source material for such stories. But that they use the episode for inspiration is not the problem. The problem is the quality of the stories themselves. I will not illustrate this distinction again.

It must be nice being able to write easily

I haven't written anything in over a year. I "started" something in June and my entire progress to date is about 1,200 terrible, boring words I want to delete and rewrite from scratch. I can't "write easily," but I don't pity myself or make myself out to be some kind of victim who's being unfairly persecuted. I'm just a crap writer with other hobbies he enjoys more.

You are effectively deriding people who are trying to improve

No, I'm telling you what you need to fix so you can maybe go fix it. The solution to your problem of second-guessing yourself isn't to just not second-guess yourself. You're just ignoring all your problems that way and reinforcing bad behavior.

It allows people who suck at writing to still post things, so they can improve.

You can't improve if you don't sit down and think about what you've written and, uh, improve it.

Look, I don't want to argue this anymore because it's completely off-topic at this point; we've gone from some general discussion about episode fics and now it's just all about your issues, specifically. I'm not really comfortable with that, so, I'm gonna end my part in this line of discussion here. Good luck with your stories in the future, and happy trails.

4769542
Writing is hard. I do have problems that I'm trying to work on. Therefore, I am coming to the defense of other people who struggle with writing, because making a bad story does not deserve ridicule.

4769557

But, once again, the problem there isn't that those stories are about the episode.

Let's look at some of your previous comments…

…but when tons of stories all about the same thing get posted in short order, all of them look like poorly thought-out attention grabs whether or not that's what they actually are.
No, I personally think it's entirely well-deserved.

Wherein you admit that they may not be poorly thought-out attention grabs, but decide to consider them as such, anyway.

I haven't written anything in over a year. I "started" something in June and my entire progress to date is about 1,200 terrible, boring words I want to delete and rewrite from scratch.

Oh, you aren't? So from what basis are you claiming that intense editing is going to improve skills more than forcing it out?

I can't "write easily," but I don't pity myself or make myself out to be some kind of victim who's being unfairly persecuted.

Well, you weren't called ‘part of the problem’ by a moderator when you said you have trouble with some aspects of writing.

No, I'm telling you what you need to fix so you can maybe go fix it.

I never once said I wasn't trying to fix it, and indeed emphasized that I have been trying to do just that in a previous comment. Perhaps you should go back over your other comments and look for the parts where your tone appears to be that of derision toward new writers. It's there.

You can't improve if you don't sit down and think about what you've written and, uh, improve it.

You also can't improve if you have no motivation, no encouragement, and no feedback, which posting your story facilitates. Judging your own writing is notoriously hard, and not everybody wants to bother an editor with practice-fics.

4769330 Oh my god your avatar's from Roundabout.

4769628 There's a huge difference between writing a bad story because you lack the skills but still wish to improve and writing a lazy story to capitalize on a bandwagon and gain recognition. If you do the latter, then yes, you DO deserve ridicule. I have not said anything that Eldorado hasn't already said.

4769652

There's a huge difference between writing a bad story because you lack the skills but still wish to improve and writing a lazy story to capitalize on a bandwagon and gain recognition.

I agree. However, Eldorado several times conflated the two.

4769658 No, that's what you read into it. You misconstrued his points at literally every turn despite him spelling them out for you. I don't normally blame someone for reading something wrong, but Eldo was pretty clear with you and you're just being obtuse.

4769628 As I said, I'm not interested in continuing to discuss your specific experiences with writing. There are plenty of groups on the site where you can go to get help if you want it. I'm not going to discuss it here.

As for everything else... I think it all seems pretty much consistent? I don't find a problem in saying rushed episode fics are terrible when the vast majority of them are actually terrible. Maybe one in twenty or one in fifty is good, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to call them bad overall because they actually are. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch, sure, but are you really going to blame people who see a mountain of bad apples and don't immediately start digging into it, looking for the good ones buried within? Not when there's a dozen other piles of perfectly good apples to choose from right next door. If you wanna slap together an episode plot in 30 minutes and post it without editing, you go nuts and do just that, but I think in doing so you kind of waive the right to get offended when people don't give it a fair shot. At some point, not biting into every apple in the pile in the hopes that it's not rotten stops being "being unfair" and starts being basic common sense.

4769628

Wherein you admit that they may not be poorly thought-out attention grabs, but decide to consider them as such, anyway.

Think of it like one of those bags of joke jelly beans. If you try five of them and all five are shit, you're far more likely to assume the next one will also be shit than to assume that it's just going to get better. Sure, there might be some good ones in there, but if there's no evidence to say that the next jelly bean is a good one (say, if it looks like it's shit flavored), then why would you just assume that's the case?

Well, you weren't called ‘part of the problem’ by a moderator when you said you have trouble with some aspects of writing.

Neither have I, yet I figured out how to grow the fuck up. When I first came to the site I tried to write fuckloads, and I have three or four unfinished stories viewable... and I look at them now, and they're all shit to me. Why? Because I know i didn't try my hardest on them, but I didn't then go "Man writing is hard and I wish people would be nicer to me because it's hard." I decided that when I wrote, I wouldn't show anybody until I felt proud of it. I didn't do what you seem to suggest you've done, which is write something quick and put it out because "lol editing is hard."

Find an editor. Groups for it exist, people do exist who will edit for you if you ask. Suggesting that it's deriding someone new to say "try harder" is very thin skinned of you. Don't you think that it might just be because we want to see you actually show your potential as a writer instead of wallowing in your self deprecation and putting out dreck? If you can't put the time in to make a story good, then why should you expect people to put in time to read it?

4769651 I am the original revolving site moderator

4769658 Then you're the problem. If you already know this, there's no reason to get hung up on Eldorado's phrasing.

4769670 Jesus FUCK I want that game. I watched Vinny from Vinesauce play through it and oh my god.

4769682 I think it's pretty cheap on Steam. I bought it actually pretty much exactly a year ago, though, so it might have changed. It's definitely a personal favorite of mine. Talk about original ideas.

4769271 I don't think writing a fic inspired by the latest episode is a "bandwagon." It's more or less as 4769308 and 4769414 said: rushed, sloppy work tends to come out, and it can be a bit annoying if you, too, liked the episode and wanted to write something inspired by it. I lived in dread of my fic getting lost in the blizzard of CheesePie fics and even the brief and mercifully deceased sub-genre, the CheesePie funeral fic.

Sometimes an episode just clicks with you, or fits with something you were already thinking. But the fic still needs to be developed properly and edited before it's submitted.

It's only a bandwagon if it's a "gimmick" fic. Lots of people wanted to write Rainbow Rocks fics after Rainbow Rocks. That was nice to see. The quickly written ones mostly weren't very good. The true bandwagon fics were about Sonata Dusk and her tacos, and after a day or two, I wished there were some sort of keyword filter like " -tacos" so I could blot them out, like Derpibooru.

4769664

Maybe one in twenty or one in fifty is good, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to call them bad overall because they actually are. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch, sure, but are you really going to blame people who see a mountain of bad apples and don't immediately start digging into it, looking for the good ones buried within?

4769668

Think of it like one of those bags of joke jelly beans. If you try five of them and all five are shit, you're far more likely to assume the next one will also be shit than to assume that it's just going to get better.

It is called Sturgeon's law, and it applies to fanfiction in general. Should we just assume fanfiction is shit and stop coming to this site altogether? You are seeing patterns where there are none: Making links with a certain writing style or group and bad stories.

When I first came to the site I tried to write fuckloads, and I have three or four unfinished stories viewable... and I look at them now, and they're all shit to me.

So, you did a whole lot of writing, and you improved. In which case, you telling me that I shouldn't do the same thing is ironic.

I didn't do what you seem to suggest you've done, which is write something quick and put it out because "lol editing is hard."

But you just admitted that you did do something like that. Are you claiming that all of the writing you did before you were a good writer had no effect on you becoming a better writer?

Suggesting that it's deriding someone new to say "try harder" is very thin skinned of you.

There are different ways of saying ‘try harder’. “Because you put stories out before they're perfect, you are part of a problem” is one of the more derisive selections.

4769714 My god. You're actually hopeless. I pray for your soul.

4769714 As someone who approves stories for the site and almost certainly has more experience with what's good and what's bad than you do, I can say with certainty that the average level of terribleness is still far more forgiving than the level of terribleness in rushed, 1,000-word, day-the-episode-aired oneshots. If 90% of everything is shit, then 90% of the 10% that would normally be not-shit with any other genre actually is shit when you're talking about hasty episode cash-ins. That's why they stand out as being exceptionally bad.

4769737
Throwing out the nugget of gold with the trash is not something I agree with, no matter how small the nugget may be. You also previously admitted that the overflow on an episode day may skew your perception, so your experience of these particular fics is unreliable, by your own words.

4769714

So, you did a whole lot of writing, and you improved. In which case, you telling me that I shouldn't do the same thing is ironic.

But you just admitted that you did do something like that. Are you claiming that all of the writing you did before you were a good writer had no effect on you becoming a better writer?

I'd like to say I improved because I don't put something out without a second thought. I didn't improve because I wrote three 3k word stories and then realized I was shit and stopped. I improved because of everything I haven't put out. I learned that the point of writing isn't to just throw some words down and put it out, the point of writing is to write something for you, and only when you can say "I am happy with this" should you be putting it out for others to see. I haven't actually written that much since the last story I put up, for that very reason.
And my point was that I used to be a lazy writer, then I grew up, but I never suggested that people go easier on me because I was new, or because I struggled with it, which is exactly what you're doing here. Either give up or grow up, but don't half ass your writing. Find an editor or learn how to focus for longer than an hour, or just stop writing. If you can't give your attention to an idea long enough to make it good, then you're just wasting what little time you did devote to it.

There are different ways of saying ‘try harder’. “Because you put stories out before they're perfect, you are part of a problem” is one of the more derisive selections.

Find that quote for me please, because I find it odd that I missed it...

But as I'm getting tired of reiterating what I and others have tried to tell you, I will just refer you to the following video if you feel the need to respond to me with more of this "Stop berating me for being lazy" shit.

4769760 I honestly think the handful of good fics that come out rapidly DO rise to the top. Someone looks through the slush pile, sighs, thinks, "oh, ok," and if it's surprisingly good, they'll pass that along and add it to a lot of groups. And then it WILL get attention and votes. Most of the #savetree memorial fics weren't memorable, but some were. Some didn't come out for a long time.

4769271 Bookish Delight is an example of an author who writes episode responses--but they're excellent. They DON'T come out the day after the episode. One's Mare's Worth came out a month after Amending Fences.

4769760 So do you go sift through your neighbors' garbage cans looking for winning lottery tickets?

Everybody makes these kinds of choices, and you can't honestly expect people to stop detecting patterns and making inferences accordingly. That's as integral to human nature as arguing about stupid stuff on the internet. Since restating myself is becoming a hobby here:

If you want to claim to be the exception, that's fine, but you're submitting yourself to something that has a bad reputation for a very good reason.

At this point it honestly feels like you're just being deliberately difficult.

4769815

At this point it honestly feels like you're just being deliberately difficult.

That may be. I think I'll get off the Internet for a bit.

4769815
I'm sorry. Looking back, this whole conversation was me being an ass.