The Social Manipulators - Fluttershy, Rarity and Pinkie Pie · 5:05am Apr 5th, 2016
.Social manipulation is one of the fundamental ways that any social sapient being gets thing done. It's in fact the "soft" option on the "soft vs. hard" scale: its essence is to persuade others to do what you want. Manipulation can be overt or covert to varying degrees. The problem with manipulation is when it is done aggressively and immorally.
How do we judge "aggressive" or "immoral" in this case?
Under the same rule of "no aggressive use of force or fraud" that we would judge threats or uses of force. Manipulation by force is possible (Sun Tzu's On War is mostly about this topic), but generally not Fluttershy's or Rarity's style (we saw a rare instance of it in S6E03 where Maud made an implicit threat of force againt the Hustler and Rarity turned it into an explicit one by (deliberately mis-)interpreting Maud's behavior). Social manipulation by fraud is more common, and is the way in which someone using "soft power" (which is to say influence) preferentially operates against an enemy.
An additional rule -- not necessary in strict moral terms but necessary to be a good Pony -- is that one not treat anypony who has not initiated force or fraud against oneself or others, but especially not one's friends, like objects to be used as opposed to subjects in their own right.
The three members of the Mane Six who are the most manipulative are Fluttershy, Rarity and Pinkie Pie in roughly that order.
Fluttershy's Element of Kindness is all about social manipulation. Specfically, it is the power of positive impression -- the ability to know how to make others see one as a good person, toward whom any cruelty would be utterly unthinkable. This is a very effective abiilty against anyone with any shred of decency in their character -- it worked on Discord. Full stop. Discord, who in vanilla canon is said to have imposed torture and tyranny upon other Ponies, who drives them mad for sport, feels guilty for hurting Fluttershy and will go out of his way to keep her good opinion.
The obvious limitation on this power is that it doesn't work on the irredeemably evil. Neither Chrysalis, nor Sombra, nor Tirek were at all deterred by her abilities, nor could she have reformed them. (Though in the case of SWSV Chrysalis, she wants Fluttershy alive for reasons of her own, and the SWSV Sombra might find the Crimson Quartz part of him struggling not to hurt Fluttershy). On the other hand, it is a very good way of finding allies against said irredeemably evil. Fluttershy is very good at finding allies and protectors.
SWSV Fluttershy mostly doesn't mean to manipulate Rainbow Dash. They just fall into that pattern, both because of Fluttershy's nature and Dashie's virtues and flaws. Fluttershy is deceptively soft -- she seems much weaker than she is -- and it is Rainbow Dash's nature to want to protect anything she perceives as both kind and weaker than herself. Dashie is not really capable of ceasing to love anyone who has not outright and severely betrayed her, so she winds up loving Fluttershy (literally, they're Avatars of the Cosmic Concepts of Loyalty and Kindness) forever. Even though it's later not all that sexual a form of love.
Fluttershy's general Talent in the SWSV is indomitability. As the title to one of my stories puts it, Fluttershy Is Free, which means that she will be herself and act according to her nature. She will outwardly bend and yield, but inwardly retain her integrity. This makes her almost invulnerable to mind control (Discord is one of the few beings who has ever accomplished it against her, and he did so by creating and implanting Fluttercruel as a combination of their souls, essentially possessing her with their psychic child, not a technique accessible to most entities; Chrysalis outright fails every time she tries).
Fluttershy's normal active social mode is passive-aggressive. As we see in Post-Traumatic, she configures her own social exterior in such a way as to evoke the desired response from others as the easiest and most inevitable course of action. It is very hard for Fluttershy to not be manipulative, as this is how she communicates. The fact that this is conceptualy-similar to how the Night Shadows communicate should frighten you -- it gives me pause for concern. The difference is that Fluttershy is Kind, so she tries hard to be good to others; the Night Shadows want to hurt others.
Rarity's Element of Generosity is mostly about social manipulation. Specifically, it is the power of trade -- the ability to know what to give someone else to get what one wants in return, ideally by making a positive-sum deal in which both parties finish off better in return. This is a subtle but tremendous power; it is a power capable of building businesses, nations and empires. It is explicitly the power which, in the SWSV, Celestia used to create and grow Equestria.
Rarity's general Talent in the SWSV, is explicitly stated to be the ability to sense patterns and see the energy flows within them so that she knows where to apply minimum effort with maximum leverage to change them. This is how she gem-dowses (she senses the disturbance the gems make in the Earth-currents), this is how she makes Ponies of a particular social circle accept and like her, and this is how she builds her business. This is how someday she will help build an interstellar trading empire and civilization.
One of the ways in which we know that Rarity is a good Pony, both in vanilla-canon and SWSV canon, is that she cares about the effct that her manipulations have on others and will try not to hurt them, unless they are her foes or she's only hurting them a little in order to achieve an important objective (the latter situation is how we know she's not a perfect Pony. You can usually tell where Rarity's been by the happy and enriched Ponies she leaves in her wake. This is "selfish altruism," because it means that instead of making enemies when she acts, Rarity makes friends.
Pinkie Pie manipulates through Obfuscating Stupidity combined with an astonishing degree of intelligence and the ability to perceive and if necessary directly warp the timestream. She was born able to do, smoothly and safely, what Starlight Glimmer only learns to do through dint of decades of study and is never able to do save very blatantly and at risk of Paradox. She wants to make the world happy and spread Joy. Pinkie would be utterly-terrifying if she were not also incredibly benevolent.
The Element of Laughter is comedy, both in its current meaning of "events inducing laughter" and its older meaning of stories with happy endings. Laughter mocks pretensions and overcomes intimidation by calling the bluff of the bullies and making them look ridiculous when they seek to act on their threats. It requires manipulation to set up the joke and ensure the desired delivery.
Pinkie's the least socially manipulative of my three manipulators, because her manipulations are on a direct temporal level.
The essence of why Fluttershy, Rarity and Pinkie Pie are (mostly) good despite their manipulative natures is that they do not generally consider other Ponies -- least of all their friends -- as mere objects to be manipulated, with no concern for their well-being. They consider them as worthy subjects in their own right and try to ensure happy outcomes for these others in the course of attempting to achieve their own goals.
Sometimes they make mistakes, of course.
They are, after all, only baby goddesses.
Given how much Fluttershy folds into peer pressure (not to mention her trying every trick in the book not to fly in Hurricane Fluttershy and RD will have none of it)...
Pinkie Pie can also be naive, in comparison to the others. She blabs Cranky is bald to tons of other ponies, not realizing how much this is humiliating Cranky. And that Cranky refuses to become her friend (and indeed, never would have if Pinkie Pie hadn't put the pieces together between him and Matilda).
Blue Blood and Rarity actually as one reviewer put it, in light if you accept the IDW Comic with Blue Blood as canon, actually both social manipulators, and both expected the other to be wrap around their hoof by evening end, sure, Blue Blood is spoiled rotten, and classist, but it explain why they could be civil to each other during Rarity's 'new girl on the spot' moment in Canterlot. (And the same thread had quite a lot to say about that. That Rarity herself at her core is still a country girl, as she doesn't recognize popularity is social currency.)
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?593794-Where-I-Watch-My-Little-Pony-3-Celestia-Is-Love-Discord-Is-A-Dick&p=14737123
Prince Rutherford is completely blind sided by Blue Blood, since the Yaks have been isolationists for so long, he doesn't know the game like Blue Blood does, and Blue Blood knows all the right moves to make. (Butter up his friends instead of him directly, get him in a spot where he can't smash or just walk away, and bring food that if it's bad, both side can laugh about it). Blue Blood also does the impossible by getting Rutherford to consider not smashing things by saying how it'll ruin his new hooficure.
Ahh yes, the Feeling type personalities.
On the MBTI scale, the three you mentioned would be:
ISFP
ENFJ
ENFP
Fluttershy being the odd pony out with introverted feeling which is highly non-confrontational. I can see there being passive aggressive tendencies though, which could be classified as manipulative.
The other three are Thinking type personalities:
INTP
ESTJ
ESTP
Twilight being the odd pony out with introverted thinking, which is less pragmatic and more intellectual.
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Fluttershy manipulated Rainbow Dash into pushing her into what Fluttershy wanted to do -- namely, become a better flier. That's how her passive-aggressive style works -- she gains what she wants, and the responsibility belongs to others.
It can backfire sometimes, but it usually achieves its ends.
Also, Rainbow Dash is in particular very vulnerable to it, mostly because she wants to help Fluttershy.
I'm sorry, but when I saw Happy endings, I thought "That's the element of moaning, not Laughter"
Sorry for the moment of 13 year old juvenile giggling.
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In my opinion, Discord came very close to losing right when he met Fluttershy. If he hadn't possessed her very quickly with their Fluttercruel spawn, she would have started working on him in exactly the manner that enabled her to ultimately defeat him in "Keep Calm and Flutter On."
"I am weak and helpless" indeed. When Fluttershy says that to you, a wise foe considers running.
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I had the same thought writing it, but figured no one else would be that dirty-minded.
Good analysis
Fascinating analysis. I can't help but cast it in terms of my usual synthesis of pony and card game magic. White builds a protective army. Blue wheels and deals. Black does what no one else dares to.
(I know, I know, quite different universes, but it's a very useful mental framework.)
Wonderful blog. It actually helped me put my finger on something that's bothered me for a long time, namely one of the reasons I don't like RariJack as a romantic ship while I have no problems with RariDash (where Rarity can be much more manipulative) and AppleShy (where Fluttershy is capable of manipulating AJ more than Rarity ever could.)
Rarity's style of manipulation being trade makes perfect sense-- she's always offering a quid pro quo, even if it's implicit (and even if she has no intention of actually offering what she's implying, like with the stallions in Best Night Ever or Putting Your Hoof Down.)
Applejack, on the other hand, doesn't accept negotiation with ponies she's responsible for caring for [1]: if she wants to offer them something, she'll offer with all her heart. If she's not offering something she expects that to be off the table, no exceptions. Rarity's form of manipulation, even for the best possible reasons, is actually an attack on her honor.
On the other hand, Rainbow's honor is entirely different, and certainly doesn't preclude negotiating for a better deal in return for anything she can do for a pony. If Rarity can sell her on something that's to both of their benefit, that's a great deal for both of them.
Then with Fluttershy, Applejack is certainly vulnerable to manipulation, even in canon, but it's a much more acceptable kind to her: Fluttershy manipulates situations through her own behavior rather than manipulating ponies directly, allowing Applejack to react in line with her values, never feeling like her behavior is up for negotiation.
I know you're not into most of those ships, but it was something that had been hard for me to put into words, and your breakdown here really helped.
[1] Well, she doesn't like to accept negotiation. Through the series she's grown to the point where she'll consider logical argument (especially from Twilight) as long as she doesn't feel like it's an attempt to manipulate her.
3849066
I won't argue with how you've typed each of the Mane Six. But I should point out that you've made an error about which types have introverted feeling and thinking.
Here are the cognitive functions of each of the types you mentioned:
ISFP: Fi-Se-Ni-Te
ENFJ: Fe-Ni-Se-Ti
ENFP: Ne-Fi-Te-Si
INTP: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
ESTJ: Te-Si-Ne-Fi
ESTP: Se-Ti-Fe-Ni
(F=feeling, T=thinking, S=sensing, N=intuition; E and I are extroverted and introverted, respectively)
According to your typing, Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy both use Introverted Feeling. And both Twilight and Rainbow Dash use Introverted Thinking (I disagree in Twilight's case, but that's beside the point).
I would also point out that having Introverted Feeling does not make a person non-confrontational, any more than having Extroverted Feeling makes people pick fights. Consider some other ISFPs in film and literature (Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, Arya Stark, Frodo Baggins, to name a few). They all have dominant Introverted Feeling. Are they non-confrontational? Not at all. When it comes to something they truly care about, they'll fight to the death. They have incredibly strong feelings; they just aren't inclined to talk about those feelings.
(If you want to know more about the types, I'd check out funkymbtifiction on tumblr. I've learned a lot there.)
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D'oh.
Complete brainfart. Good catch.
How could I have forgotten that ENFP has Fi and ESTP has Ti?
Man. I'm slipping.
Also very true. ESFJ's will do anything to avoid conflict, and they have very high Fe. Personally, I find the ESFJ to be the most irritating type. Huge amounts of passive aggression in the ones I've known. I don't do well with strong Fe types. They tend to read into my actions and make assumptions about my motivations too much.
I've made 308 posts on Personality Cafe. I used to really be into this stuff before I got into writing ponyfic.
http://personalitycafe.com/members/recon777.html
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I think you're very right, and everything about their potential problems if in love also applies to their friendship in both vanilla and SWSV canon. Note that Applejack is extremely friendly toward Rainbow Dash in vanilla-canon -- they hang out together a lot, often engaged in various forms of friendly competition. It's not hard to imagine them falling in love, assuming that both of them are receptive to it (in my SWSV, Rainbow Dash might be, but AJ is straight and carrying the torch for somepony else. I think that Applejack falling for Fluttershy is more of a stretch, because they have less points in common and have significant differences in communication ... if she did, though, I think that Fluttershy would very much dominate their relationship, and Applejack would periodically get angry at her about her indirect approach to communication.
But Rarity ... yeah, though AJ and Rarity are definitely friends, and in the SWSV AJ's family has made a major sacrifice for Rarity, and even though they're both small businessmares -- their spheres of interest are just too very different. I don't see it working long enough for them to even get together. Also, in the SWSV, those are the two most purely heterosexual members of the Mane Six (Dashie and Fluttershy are out-and-out bisexuals, Twilight Sparkle a natural-heterosexual in love with a particular mare, while Pinkie Pie is straight but very much aware that some of her alternate selves are bisexual). Of course, in all these cases limited sample size applies as you mentioned before -- the only ones of my Mane Six with extensive romantic experience are Fluttershy (polyamorous bisexual) and Rarity (serial monogamous, only ever actually has sex with two beings in the period covered by my stories so far, but has fooled around with several others in between having sex with those two beings). A third (Rainbow Dash) wants to be monogamous but winds up being serially monogamous, and she's definitely bisexual in that the two lovers I've named are female and male respectively). Twilight, Pinkie and AJ wind up being strictly monogamous.
One thing I'll say about the difference between AJ and Rarity's bargaining styles is that AJ restricts explicit bargaining to purely economic transactions, like buying fertilizer or selling apples. She has no trouble being unsentimental about that. She would feel it monstrous to be unsentimental about love or friendship or family. She is extremely sentimental about the Ponies she cares for and sees such relationships ideally as "we'll each give to the other whatever we can and which the other needs." In other words, she's a business capitalist and an emotional socialist.
Rarity is a natural negotiator in all aspects of her life, including love and friendship and family. This doesn't meaan that she's amoral or unsentimental, but rather that she is always very consciously aware and calculating regarding such matters. (This is a point of similarity between her and Spike). She was always destined to be a natural negotiator -- in the SWSV she had the lesson of just how badly things turned out if she just went with her feelings when she was seduced and abandoned and miscarried in her early teens. She never wants to let this happen to her again (one big reason why she never fully consummates any love affair again from then on, until she eventually decides to give herself to Spike).
AJ and Rarity's approaches don't mesh. Rarity would lose patience with AJ's apparent irrationality regarding love, and AJ be horrified by the way in which Rarity would remain calculating even in love. And yes, the problem would be that Rarity's manipulations are mostly overt trading.
I feel the need to defend Rarity on one point. She's never actually offering sex to the stallions who draw her carriage, or in the other similar situations. What she's doing is offering "some unspecified future favor," and knowing Rarity, she will eventually due them a good turn for their trouble. Of course, she knows well that being flirtatious is letting them think they have a chance with her there (which the particular stallions involved almost certainly don't), so I'm not claiming that Rarity's entirely innocent in this regard.
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While I do think that Rainbow and Twilight are better matches for AJ, I don't rule out Fluttershy. They don't have many direct points of interest, but as I pointed out in a recent blog post their interests are actually two sides of the same coin, just a perspective shift away. And in terms of indirect communication, it's worth noting that unlike Rainbow, AJ is very perceptive about that sort of thing-- she's usually one of the most conscientious of Fluttershy in canon (along with Twilight and Rarity) and she's very good at reading Big Mac, who's arguably even less direct than Fluttershy. It probably would annoy her from time to time, but I doubt it would be a deal breaker in that case.
I do agree that Fluttershy would dominate, though. I think that like Twilight (and unlike Rainbow) Fluttershy would trigger Applejack's chivalrous impulses, setting up a relationship where AJ is the more active and protective partner, but directed by the desires of her beloved. Of course, that's Fluttershy's MO with many ponies, as you pointed out, but I think it fits with one relationship pattern AJ might tend towards in general.
Oh, I totally agree. The flirtation is implying a level of interest that she almost certainly doesn't feel, but nothing improper. And there's no doubt in my mind that she'd be happy to help them in a completely neighborly way in return... the implication of romantic availability is just there to sweeten the pot.
Hmmm. A study could be made about those who do NOT manipulate socially. Applejack, Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash all seem to be inclined towards honesty in their dealings.
3849974 I feel the need to defend Rarity on one point. She's never actually offering sex to the stallions who draw her carriage, or in the other similar situations. What she's doing is offering "some unspecified future favor," and knowing Rarity, she will eventually due them a good turn for their trouble. Of course, she knows well that being flirtatious is letting them think they have a chance with her there (which the particular stallions involved almost certainly don't), so I'm not claiming that Rarity's entirely innocent in this regard.
I do wish the IDW writers would get this note. I dislike seeing how they often turn Rarity into a one-note stallion-chasing lecher seemingly incapable of any other motivation.
I can't comment much on the journal itself, other than it's very well done and makes me think about ways of presenting Rarity, Fluttershy, and Pinkie in my own writing. Especially Pinkie, as I have a very poor sense of humor (slapstick and burlesque of the Three Stooges/Abbott and Costello variety is about my level) and find her VERY hard to do properly.
Ah, benign manipulation. It's how I say a good policy works. Any ruler can make a decree and enforce it by violence, but it takes particular cunning to have people behave themselves without threatening them into submission. You're not going to change human nature, but you can have human nature work for you(or pony nature, in this case). I maintain that education in emergent systems ought to be a prerequisite for political work.