Ripped apart · 1:39am Jun 13th, 2013
Right as I was getting confidence... I didn't think An Old World for Fluttershy would get accepted to EQD, but I never thought it would get so completely ripped apart. It was torn asunder, word by word and shown to me how awful it really is. I've been trying to overcome my fears and post my writings in public for years, for a decade, at least. I'm sorry. I don't even know what to do. It didn't even look like it was fixable. It's just... garbage. I really, truly thought I was better than that. I'm sorry.
Edit: I want to point out that I do not hate Equestria Daily in any way. If this post seems like I am trying to flame them, that was not my intention at all. I was trying to document and share that I was feeling a little defeated with the review I got back. My negative comments were focused on my submission, not the site. I'm sorry for any misunderstandings. I will try to be more clear in the future.
How specifically was it taken apart?
Don't believe a word they tell you. You don't need to get accepted by EQD and their corrupt system to be an amazing author. You're a GREAT author, and you can only improve from this.
That being said, learn how to accept criticism, regardless of how mean or unfair it seems. Learning what to take as actual criticism and just plain hate will help you out in the long run. Don't ever give up, but don't ever get your hopes too high, as they're bound to fall eventually.
EQD is not a place worth even going to. They aren't exactly the best reviewers or modrators when it comes to their choosing of stories. Not a lot of people like them, and hey you are liked on here. Trust me, the fan base on here is a lot better than EQD anyways.
Plus, don't let a few asshole moderators with minuscule power bring your writing spirit down. It's shit that they did that to you, just don't submit to them anymore. They aren't worth it, and again the people on here can actually recognize a good story. /)
EqD doesn't allow creativity. Seriously, they don't. They think Essay writing is the best way to approach things (albeit, some of them may disagree, but it's largely true). Apparently a fic was denied for a having the words "written by" in the first chapter (That little intro people do to start it off). Was kind of silly, since they told the author to correct it to "by" (something done in formal essays/reports for your title page).
But, if you ever get into the world of creative writing, they'll tell you that there's more to writing than being super formal and using complex and strict writing rules to enhance your ability. It's the creativity and freedom of writing that an author should focus on.
Don't let EqD get you down. They're too busy with essays (which they only know one or two styles of) to care about creativity and freedom.
EqD tore you apart, and here is FiM willing to be nice and help you out. Just the community reaction on this should speak volumes about things. EqD is one of my least favorite things ever forged by human hands, because of stupid idiotic childish behavior like this. There's almost nothing good about the way they operate, and you're better off here. I run an editing group if you're looking for helpful and yet friendly advice.
The worst thing you can do is give up, because then EqD wins.
Also, if you ever want help with your story, there's a lot of people willing to tell you what may be bad and what may be good with it. You shouldn't be hurt by all negative critiques. No, accept them with open arms (or hooves, if you want to be a pony) and think about what you can approve to fix the problem. You're more than welcome to deny it if the person doesn't provide enough evidence (I do this on occasion with my editors) but you should be grateful for negative feedback sometimes. It's good to know that you're not perfect and that someone wants you to be better. EqD doesn't, no, they're busy with Trixie's wizard hat. I mean people who actually enjoy real fictions want you to be better for the community.
You're clearly a decent writer (no dislikes on either story. Not bad) and that has to be worth something to someone. You may have an innate ability to write stories that draw in readers and allow them to enjoy it. This ability could easily be enhanced if you took the time to maybe jump around some writing guides, talk to editors (I would suggest O.E.E, but they're renovating) about what you can improve on and apply them to your writing.
Don't give up. Seriously. Writing isn't a big deal, but people causing you to lose faith in your own writing because they told you "it was garbage because it doesn't meet our standards," is a bunch of bull.
I am thrilled that so many here have voiced the truth: do not view EqD as a bar of quality you need to surpass. Find bronies here with similar tastes and offer them your story.
1140992 Right, the group's closed right now. Whoops.
Tell you what, if you PM me, we can set up a time where I'll open the group up long enough for you to join. I'm serious about finding someone to help you along and be friendly and kind rather than an obnoxious prick. Lemme know if you're interested.
EQD's a bunch of assholes, wanting only "the best", even though they rely on extremely biased opinion.
They're a small majority of the fandom, and they're some of the biggest assholes I've seen in this fandom, and trust me, I've been to some of the deepest and dirties parts of this fandom. This fandom built itself on being a strong group by staying close to each other by not being complete jerks to one another, which even /mlp/ from 4chan gets, as the even the flamewars on there aren't very large considering the moderately large size of the board.
We accept people here on FiMFiction. We understand that a story doesn't have to be perfect to be great. Every great series out there, professionally written or not, from your story to Harry Potter or the Lord of the Rings, has its flaws, but it's still great and loved by many. That's what you need to understand: that EQD is just a small amount, and it matters what the majority thinks. What also matters is what you think. Be proud of what you write. It may have flaws, but you're putting your damn heart, sweat, and soul into your writing, and you should be proud of what comes out, not matter what others think.
These are hard things to follow, but this will get you so far in life if you think like this for everything you do. Just think for yourself before you let others think for you, and then decide what the quality of your story is.
1140981
Interesting that you could come to this conclusion without knowing what was said.
And why would the pre-reader give that much detailed feedback if he didn't want the author to use it? If what he's trying to do is insult the author, he can do that in far less time than it takes to write up advice.
"Here are the things you can do to improve your story" is a far different thing than "Your story is bad." I'd wager (which is cheating on my part, since I've seen the review) the pre-reader never said or insinuated the latter.
Speaking as an aspiring author myself: it's okay to feel the way you do now. In fact, it's perfectly normal, and I'd wager it's a necessary part of developing as a writer that you have a story completely bomb like this. My two most recently written stories both got torn to shreds in editing by people whom I was good friends with, and even with 4+ years of writing and online publication experience under my belt, it still took me a few days to work up the courage to even go back and look at those fics again. Eventually, though, I did, and you know what? Much as it hurt to admit it, most of the things they said were absolutely right, and fixing the issues they pointed out dramatically improved both stories.
As with all critical reviews, take what my fellow pre-reader(s) said with a grain of salt. It's not only entirely possible but quite likely that not everything they told you was 100% objectively correct; that being said, take a little bit to get your mind right, then try to go back and look critically at the flaws that have been pointed out to you, because I would bet that a grand majority of them do have a good bit of sense behind them. It seems brutal and it feels brutal, and I know that feeling just as well as anyone here, but allow me to assure you now that any reviewer who takes the time to be that thorough with picking a story apart truly does have the author's best interests at heart.
We review the way we do because we genuinely want to see submitting authors improve to the point where we can throw a deserving spotlight their way, and anyone who gives you a blanket statement to ignore any and all criticism from a particular source is doing you a grievous disservice. By all means, take multiple perspectives into account with regard to what should and should not be fixed in your story, but please don't mistake a thorough review for a personal vendetta against you as an author, as I can assure you again that's not the case here.
I'm going to pretend I didn't say something unprofessional here and instead left an encouraging happy face instead.
Opinions may differ, but Aquaman said everything I would have otherwise.
Sorry your review seemed hostile. Hope you can move past it.
EQD holds no unified position on what quality fiction actually is, it is immensely variable per reviewer and is often down to their tastes in fiction. The main issue is that people view them as the almighty authority on fiction, they aren't, and I would never say that they held that position.
I understand where you are coming from, I was refused by them with nothing short than a few flippant statements and a month of waiting, some of them really are quite obnoxious and repulsive. Then again I gotta be fair, they aren't all like that, some actually want to help you, but a good third are either incompetent or assholes.
Don't let the criticism kick you down, give the finger to them and say "No! this is my work! this is my stand! you don't like it? then piss off!", sure you can fix up the errors and grammatical problems if they exist, but don't let anyone degrade you into the position that you think you must give up, at the end of the day, their opinions matter as much as a puddle of piss!
Their opinions are intangible and unable to be corrected, because thats their opinion, not anything particularly wrong with the fiction. At the end of the day, they aren't even experts, they are just people who took up the job with no other experience beyond that, their opinions and notions of what makes quality aren't really worth much.
Sure if you get a nice fellah who actually explains the difficulties and helps you through them, by all means listen to him, but if he is an unhelpful asshole who just bulletpoints and demeans your work, kick the fucker out the door!
1141027 I'm an editor. I see what EqD fails for. Generally, what isn't hilariously nitpicky and arbitrary is downright incorrect. They hold themselves as the superior members of the community, but they fail for things that are specific to certain writing styles - and writing styles most professional writers aren't trained to use. All their pre-readers are grading stories on the same criteria as a college essay, which I shouldn't need to tell you is a far cry from fiction writing.
It can be demoralizing to struggle that hard over something and have them rip it apart based on arbitrary BS like they always do, and how hard they'll come down on a story simply for being outside the box. It disgusts me, and I'm not some first-time idiot who was born yesterday, here. I've had dealings with EqD indirectly through probably 15 or 20 different people who I've edited for, and I have yet to see a story get failed for nothing but valid concerns. Every single time there'll be something idiotic in there.
Then there's their useless copypasta at the bottom - "go get help from these various groups" is nice, sure, but they go on to recommend "auto-proofreader apps" (which can't catch things as minute and inconsequential as "you didn't put spaces between dots in your ellipsis!!!!!!!! OMG THIS FIC IS TERRIBLE!!!!!") and The Equestrian Critics Society. They're so painfully out of touch with reality and how writing is actually done in the real world that it makes me absolutely boil with rage whenever someone fails to "live up to" their standards.
But I didn't come here to argue EqD. I came to offer a friendly voice to someone who needed it. Don't try and pin this on me being some anti-EqD vigilante; even if I agreed with every word in their review I'd say the same thing, and I think it's rather disrespectful to the author here for you to question me in that goal.
See, now this is just exactly why I will absolutely never, ever submit anything of mine to Equestria Daily. They're just jerks.
EqD is a lot like an explosion
Sounds awesome hearing about it.
Looks awesome watching it.
Not so awesome to be in the middle of it.
Except, while an explosion is a loud and eye catching spectacle, EqD is a horde of soul crushing brony elitists waiting to grind your soul into the dirt. Unless you're already a big name in the community you have no chance. No matter what they tell you, at least in the beginning, it is at least partially a popularity contest. Don't let it get to you, you just tackled something a little too big a little too early (I tried something similar and boy did I suffer). You had a lot of guts to even try sending it to that forsaken nightmare we call the EqD Moderation. They turned you down? They don't know what they're missing.
That's the best I can describe the situation.
Every last one of these comments has caused me physical pain. It saddens me that people are so caught up in their blind hatred for Equestria Daily that they jump on the slightest chance they get to demonize us. So let's not waste any time, let's get to it, shall we?
I've personally gone through your review, as I'm one of those responsible for managing the messaging system. Sometimes PRs have bad days, because we are and always will be human beings. That being said, not only was the review fair and supportive, it was valid. You're pretty lucky you stumbled across the fellow you did, because not only did he address repairable concerns in your story, but he even took the time to give you examples of your mistakes. Is it a tough pill to swallow? Yes, yes it is. It sucks getting told that your fic isn't as good as you think it is, and everyone's gone through it, even me. Never, never, never think that just because a story is popular means that it holds up to a higher standard.
That being said, this is my gripe.
What you are doing here is demonizing by presenting a one-sided argument. All you do is state that you were ripped apart without, as your very first commentor 1140874 wisely asked, telling anyone what was wrong. If you don't want to take our advice to heart, so be it, but for the love of god, don't toss someone who worked and took their time to help you progress your story under the tracks. That's cruel and unfair. I'm sorry that you're upset with what's happened to your story, but wallowing in self-pity will get you nowhere. Get up, dust yourself off, and improve. That's what this is for. Granted, this spiel isn't your fault, it's the fault of those who are using your case to push their own agenda. I do wich you luck on your story and hope that you continue to improve yourself as a writer. Don't let rejection sour you, let it invigorate you to strive for greater heights.
That being said...
1140896
You'll generally find that people have little love for those who have to reject their hard work. Being liked has absolutely nothing to do with being right. Furthermore:
I suppose that's why 90% of the feature box is usually porn, aye? The law of the masses does not indicate quality.
1140962
You are objectively wrong. Essay writing is boring and doesn't lend itself to stories. What we care about is correct grammar and formatting. If you know the rules, you can bend them. If you do not, then you aren't yet ready to attempt that. We're always looking for something new and original to spice things up from the usual droll of fics we receive. Fics that try something new are so unbelievably refreshing, and we welcome it.
1141018
See my previous comment on law of majority.
While I agree with you on this, I think you'll find this attitude won't get you far with any publishing company. And that's what we are. A publishing company for a large audience that's not only free, but far more timely and responsive.
1140981
And you sir. You should be ashamed of yourself. I'm not sure if you're aware, but a great deal of fic approvers on FimFiction are also Equestria Daily pre-readers. In fact, our chief pre-reader is a moderator here. Equestria Daily and FimFiction work hand in hand, and do not compete. They complement each other. One acts as an archive, the other as a spotlight for that archive. Your elitism is not only disgustingly misplaced, but it's a vile misrepresentation of the site that you represent. For shame.
One of my friends came across this message and I just have something to say.
Don't let it get to you. I sent my first story to EQ, not because I wanted it to get excepted, but because I wanted feedback on how to improve my skills and get some tips.
And I did! I got some very useful pointers from them that I need to use in the future for better stories, such as italics for emphasis, word choices, and Lavender Unicorn Syndrome, which I don't completely agree with but I understand why some readers are discouraged by it.
However there are some things from them I don't exactly agree with, such as their interpretation of presenting backstory that is needed at the beginning to set the mood, picky use of numbers, and over pickyness of commas which so many people have different opinions on. I also didn't appreciate how they suggested I get a couple of proofreaders even though my description clearly stated my two editors! Yeah, that was kinda insulting to say the least.
But the big thing to remember is your purpose as a writer in the Brony Universe, and I think its one that EQ forgets alot. The vast majority of us are not here to right perfect stories. We're here to write stories about characters that we love and adore. We're here to write stories with plots and themes we've dreamed up and want to see brought to life. We're here to right not just for others, but for ourselves, especially ourselves. Good art doesn't come from focus groups, statistics on what people want to see, expect from a writer, or what should be made. It comes from how we see the characters and worlds we enjoy and how we want to bring those stories and concepts to life. And nobody can doubt you for that.
I've not read any of your stories, but I'm going to. Don't give up! Keep pushing forward! Remember, perfection is something no one can achieve, otherwise there is no true point in striving for it. Keep pushing for it, but most importantly, write for yourself.
1141059
I'll say this, my favorite stories in the fandom are not the ones on EQ, the feature box, or even in my own favorites list. They are the gems I find hidden in the depths of Fimfiction. There is so much gold to uncover and its a shame they aren't read more often.
1141066
A compliment.
That's new.
1141066 Elitism? Are you even kidding me. I'm not even going to argue this with you because I have better things to do with my time.
EqD rejects things for arbitrary reasons. I've seen this firsthand. I disagree with where you've pointed your spotlight, which wouldn't really concern me if you were some two-follower tumblr blog that nobody cared about. But most people look up to EqD as, you said, a "spotlight" where all the "good" stuff gets. I've seen on more than one occasion really good stories get turned away for stupid reasons that really come down to opinion. I'm familiar with Alex and have no quarrel with him. My quarrel lies with the people who reject a story for not comforming to Chicago style writing, which is NOT what is used in the professional fiction writing community - most of them use Oxford. I don't hate the concept of EqD, I hate what it currently does.
Don't try to shame me or make me out to be a bad representative of this community. I'm still a human being and I'm entitled to my own opinions. If I blindly go along with everything EqD does just because the admins of the two sites are cool with each other, and I don't try to help people, then nothing will ever get accomplished.
Honestly, people like you are the problem with this community.
Please don't contact me anymore. I really do have better things to do. I offered my help where EqD said "you're not good enough," and if that makes me a bad guy, then so be it. I don't need your dogma and hilarious for shame italics. Take that crap elsewhere.
1141057
I haven't pinned anything on you. I've merely said that a knee-jerk reaction to an unknown helps nobody.
1141066
I'm sure you, most others at EQD, and many, many other people see things like this, but many others don't, including, I bet, this author. This is a light-hearted fandom. We don't see things here as serious as you and others do. The world will never see eye-to-eye, but your view is so much different than others. I'm sure this author is overreacting a bit, since I doubt that you would lie that the reader was just helping the author, but I bet the pre-reader could have toned it down a bit, also, so they could be closer to seeing eye-to-eye. Not every author is great at reacting to criticism, harsh or not, and that's something some prereaders should take time to understand sometimes.
Also:
I don't remember once in the history of fimfiction when there was 9 clopfics in the feature box; I think 7 was the most I saw. And besides, if a quality story is what a person wants more than clopping time, then they can just turn off the ability to see mature stories, since that seems to have better stories.
Anyway, I didn't mean to offend EQD or its prereaders, but I just want to defend this first-time submitting author. It reminds me of a quote from a story that I read, that you choose whether or not something ruins your day, and you choose whether or not to spread your feeling to someone else.
1141097 It's not an unknown in this case. I know how EqD operates, and I've seen more than a few people get everything they ever hoped for crushed because they genuinely believe EqD's painfully narrow perception of what's good and what's not is objective fact, and then convince themselves they're terrible writers. Frankly, it disgusts me. There's a lot of blind hate that goes toward EqD, bandwagoning based on a couple people who rightfully get shoved off. I don't agree with that, either. But... I don't ever form opinions without a really solid reason for it. I won't be motivated to absolute rage by just some minor inconvenience or what I hear parroted around by a bunch of other people. The hate EqD gets is almost completely deserved. At least for fanfiction. I hear they do other things well, but I haven't been there since the early days of the MLP community and even then I didn't see any reason to stick around long. So... I can't really judge, and anything I say about EqD can safely be assumed to be about their fanfiction handling.
1141116
How can this not be an unknown? You've declared the review in question to be objectively wrong and not worth considering, when you haven't read the first word of it.
1141109
You're right, this is a lighthearted fandom. I think that's probably why most people often aren't ready for EqD because they don't expect a different tier of quality control. And perhaps there is some overreaction on the author's behalf, but like I said, being torn apart sucks really hard, and I've had it happen to me, too. Unfortunately, if you can't take criticism, that's a personal shortcoming, one that should be overcome. All I hope is that the author chooses to rebuild himself from the shredding and uses it to write even better in the future! Although I do hope you can agree with me that a lot of what gets featured is there either because it's short or... well, has pretty cheap mass appeal. That's not saying good stories can't get featured, just that it's not the best indicator.
And hey, no offense taken! Moreover, sorry if I sounded harsh on my end. Pre-reading is thankless work, and it's seeing reactions such as the ones in this post that really make you wonder if it's worth it at all. It's not pleasant to see people who do try their hardest getting kicked in the teeth repeatedly. The name-calling and slandering can get to you.
1141083
I can't speak for Chromesome, but my problem here is not that you hate us or that you're trying to tell this author it's okay to fail. My problem is the way you're telling him that: by saying that he shouldn't listen to a word the pre-readers say, and that he should just be happy with whatever he writes because he made it and that makes it special.
To some degree, yes, that is absolutely true: you should take pride in your work, no matter what anyone else thinks of it. That being said, though, it is another thing entirely to take that to such a level that you completely invalidate criticism from a certain source or, God forbid, from any source. I don't care if Joseph Stalin himself rises from the dead to pop in and say that he doesn't like the way you wrote your main character; if it's criticism, listen to it, and decide for yourself whether it represents a level of technical skill you aspire to reach.
Right now, you're telling this author that he shouldn't listen to unreasonable critics, but by your apparent definition of the term, there is no such thing as a "reasonable" critic, because that would require that said critic has only objectively correct opinions. You say the pre-readers are useless because they have elitist standards; in return, I would like to ask who made you the one who should determine to what standards this author should aspire? This author's been working at his writing for over a decade, trying to build the courage to take such a big step as submitting to EqD, and the fact that he succeeded in doing so makes me goddamn proud to even come into contact with him.
But when he gets rejected and his completely relatable response is to feel embarrassed and ashamed, what do you do? Instead of comforting him and telling him to keep at it and keep practicing and keep that same fire lit in his heart, what do you tell him to do?
You tell him to give up. You tell him that he should ignore his critics, that he should be happy with mediocrity, that you and so many other deserving authors didn't make it so why in the hell should he expect any different as if his hard work and determination could ever actually amount to anything. You tell him it's not worth the effort to keep trying, that one failure is enough of a reason to quit striving towards his goal, and that is utterly and without question despicable. You are so wrapped up in your own hatred of us that you're dragging this guy down with you just so you can keep preening and fellating yourself over how right and noble and special you are, and that is just about the lowest, most selfish thing I can imagine anyone doing on this site.
I'd like to speak to the author again here, so Fairy Tail, please listen closely: if you want to get onto EqD someday, that's awesome. If all you want is to play around with writing and have fun with this community and this oft-maligned art form, that's awesome too. And if your true goal is something between, below, or beyond any of that, then I truly wish you all the luck in the world with achieving it. But the most important lesson I want to impart upon you here is this: in your writing career, you're not just going to have to deal with harsh reviews and critiques you find offensive or even completely, abjectly wrong. You're also going to have to deal with assholes like the ones who've invaded your comment thread, who are so content with their own mediocrity that they see nothing wrong assuring you that giving up is the right course of action, that a rejection or a failure is the fault of unfair judgement or preconceived biases or any number of extenuating circumstances that take responsibility and power away from you and put it in the hands of the people who would build up their own egos at the expense of victimizing you.
These people are toxic, and they are everywhere, and I've seen far too many aspiring writers get sucked into their bullshit to let this happen to you now without saying my piece. Let me emphasize again that I don't mean to say you absolutely must shoot for the moon with everything in life; what I would encourage and implore you to do instead is to decide for yourself what you want out of writing, and once you figure that out, don't let anybody--not readers, not pre-readers, and certainly not the fuckheads rampaging around in here--tell you you're wrong to desire it. I can't promise that rousing success always comes with great effort, and god dammit, I wish the world was fair enough that I could. But I can tell you that if you stay strong and stay hungry, and put in every ounce of effort you've got, it is impossible to ever truly fail. No matter what these idiots tell you, never forget that.
1141140
help
1141140
Well said. Aqua, your ability to be eloquent one minute and a spastic drunken asshole the next truly impresses me.
Have a mustache. :3
1141134 Stop... Just stop.
That pity act your giving us there is just sad, do you honestly think your doing anything by making the author feel like his story is complete shit by just commenting about this issue? This person is obviously broken up by being rejected, so instead of trying to join in on the damn pity party, why don't you stop insulting him and give some actual constructive criticism about their writing and not make the matter worse?
(You have no idea how much snark I had to take out of this comment, it legitimately scares me)
1141222
Can I just point out really quick that we still haven't seen any of the review in question here, so it's a bit presumptuous to go off assuring him that this pre-reader must've just been a terrible person who probably sodomizes babies and thinks AppleDash is worst ship?
This is what I was talking about: regardless of whether a review seems overly harsh or illogical, you can't just write it off and say it's okay to ignore it because they're clearly a jerk. Upon further reflection, you may end up finding that they made a good point or two, and even if you later decided that no, they're still totally out of line and you don't think you'll take anything they say to heart, at least it's a conscious decision on your part to maintain the status quo and disregard a certain person's critique, rather than just bluntly ignoring it because you didn't like what they said. It's a subtle difference, but a critical one.
1141140 I'm not saying he should ignore what the pre-readers say or be happy in "mediocrity." I'm saying that he shouldn't assume that a thorough ripping apart by the pre-readers (or anyone else, for that matter) automatically means he's a flop.
Which becomes my problem. EqD doesn't give criticism unless they're rejecting your story for those criticized issues. Which takes things out of the "I don't like this" and into the "this is wrong" - that can be devastating to people who look up to EqD, in the same fashion as if it was their high school English teacher. When she points out mistakes, you treat them as things to change and areas where you are wrong, not things someone is advising to be different because they don't like what you've done with it. Every EqD defender eventually makes this point, and I really rather strongly disagree that what EqD dispenses is "criticism." It's a rejection notice. They're different, to the author.
\
EqD is not a critics society. Not in the public mind. Everything always comes down to "we can't accept this because here's what's wrong:" and then a list of things that need changed. A strike system, a series of fixes that need to be implemented, a useless copypasta recommending a bunch of stuff that'd largely be of no help in getting their stuff approved. It doesn't read like criticism or recommendations for improvement. It reads like a graded term paper with an F on the front. Valid points or not, that's demoralizing as hell.
Like I said, I wouldn't be upset at all with EqD if it wasn't for your reputation as the "best site around for stories." I don't care what you let in or keep out, and you can be as arbitrary as you like and it doesn't affect anyone. But when people look up to you the way they do, it really grinds my gears to see that "you're not good enough" attitude.
Where did you get that out of what I said? I offered him to join my editing group so I could help him improve, or find someone else who could at the very least. I want nothing more than to see authors improve their skills, or else I wouldn't have made a group about it. Nobody should sit in their mediocrity. But when a group gets the reputation of being "the best," and yet... isn't... others start to treat rejection as something really serious and there are loads of people on this site who have been driven to abandon all hope of ever writing anything because EqD let them down so hard. That makes me so incredibly sad it's difficult to put into words.
You know? I've made the English teacher analogy, and it actually ties in. Because the reason I edit right now and am so interested in others' success is because I had a really bad experience with a devil of an English teacher who told me the stuff I wrote was absolute crap. Granted, I was in middle school at the time, so it absolutely was by higher standards, but I didn't take what i was doing very seriously and I was just doing it as a hobby, and the way she treated the product I'd put forth was like I'd personally murdered the entire English language. I trusted her as an authority and let her convince me I was truly terrible at the craft, and it took a long time before I recovered from that. And it's entirely possible I might not have recovered from it, and those would have been the last words of fiction I'd ever put to paper.
So when EqD basically does the same thing, just absolutely slash apart fics and act like a publishing company trying to obsessively correct every single little error (to Chicago...), and it causes those authors to give up all hope of ever trying writing again, hell yeah I take issue with you people. Because I've been through it, and I know what that's like, when "I'm giving you criticism" becomes "I'm just ripping you apart" and there's no longer any value in that criticism because the only message being conveyed is "you are terrible," whether or not that's what was intended in the first place. There are nicer ways of letting people down and saying they might not have written something that's even compatible with EqD's attitude towards fiction, which is a damn sight more encouraging than "here's what's wrong." You don't even ask people if it's okay to rip open their stories before you do so.
I personally have done what you do to people on a daily basis, so I know what it's like in your shoes, to an extent. That's a part of me I really dislike, and I'm glad that that Alyosha is firmly in the past, but it still happened and I've moved on from that past into someone a little better. I had a friend who tried writing fiction, and he genuinely didn't care about its quality at all because he was just having fun. I jumped in with the same sort of editing that eventually led to my "Overly Extensive" editing group, and I pretty much pushed him away from writing forever because he realized how bad he truly was. And I really couldn't stand that I'd done such a thing because his ideas were creative and somewhat interesting; with a lot of practice, he could have been pretty decent. But I ruined it for him - and now anytime I start working with someone I issue a disclaimer saying "is it okay if I rip this thing apart?" - and if they aren't up to harsh, brutal criticism of every little detail... I part ways as friends.
Your actions cause more harm than they do good, even though you may only be trying to help. And you know? I think that's the most tragic bit of all. Because I've done it myself, I've been on both sides of the fence before, and either way... it's not a good place to be.
You know... I admit I may get a little caught up in the hate mongering sometimes, and for that I apologize. I don't truly believe that EqD is an evil empire bent on crushing the spirits of everyone they come in contact with, even though I may imply or even outright state it on occasion when I'm looking over a really good fic that got turned down for arbitrary reasons. I already regret some of the things I've said on this thread, and I'll stand by those statements because I'm not a historical revisionist but I do hope people can see me as an intelligent and upstanding human being rather than a mindless raving lunatic.
However, I certainly don't approve of EqD's policy, and I do think that the hate bandwagon is something that really needs to be hurled at you guys from time to time. I feel the same about most organizations, really. A good public outcry and rage fest is good for providing the external pressure necessary to keep the group/organization/institution from getting too big a head, which I definitely believe EqD has already done. Think of it as the same thing you're giving to your aspiring authors - a big harsh criticism to show you the things that the rest of us aren't happy with, and perhaps those are things you might consider looking into changing. If you don't, if the hate is worth it, then... well, I can honestly respect you guys a little bit for sticking so hard to your values like that. Same as anyone who stands in the fire beside their product and won't let anyone convince them it's terrible.
Anyway... I really wish I'd taken a bit more care when writing these comments, because I've already cast myself as "one of the herd," and I resent that quite a lot. It's just difficult to act rationally in situations like this... but I apologize for that.
To the author - no, don't be comfortable with what you've got. No matter what your skill with writing, you should always strive for improvement. And all criticism should always be taken with both a sincere desire to improve and a grain of skepticism as to whether or not it's sound advice. Never compromise what you want from the story just to make it more popular. Never stop trying to make it better in your eyes, regardless of what others may think. If you can't do it alone (and nobody can) then get help with it. And certainly don't allow anyone's opinion, mine or EqD's or anybody else's, to convince you you're a terrible writer.
1141027
I have to admit, the comment of "I've seen the review" freaks me out a little bit. I would have hoped the response would be more private, but it's not a big deal. And you are right, I wasn't insulted or told my story was garbage. I never said EQD told me it was garbage, I merely called it so in my blog post. At the time, I felt it really was. Especially the criticism on the "out of nowhere" ending, that an "emotional connection is never made," "aimless," the "lack of setting or world building." The setting and world building really got me down because that screamed "major rewrite" to me. All of those made me feel like in order for this to be salvagable, I would need to rip it all apart and rebuild it from the ground up. I know I took it far too hard, for I typically try and take criticism really well. Once again, without criticism, we can't really grow. I would love to sit here and type out a special response to every criticism I got and explain which ones I felt were misguided or off the mark, but that's not what I'm going to be all about. Different people like different things. And I do think it's about time I found someone who flat out did not like my story.
1141260 It's a fair cop, but I'm well meaning. No, I haven't seen the review. I guess I'm projecting. I assumed that if Fairy Tail was hurting that the review must have been as bad as my experience. I really just wanted Fairy Tail to feel better.
1141267 Give us the review and we'll see what we can do to help. Personally, I don't give a sh*t about EqD anymore, but I occasionally send my stories on there when a reader asks for it, just to see what happens. So far, the story has been in the queue for about five days, so that MIGHT be a good sign, or the queue is just too big.
Ok then for starters I would like to point out that every single pre reader for EQD is different and as such their style of critique will also differ. My first feedback from EQD was very constructive and for the nightdreams and daymares fictions first three chapters. The reviewer opened by stating that my structure was very different and I had a lot of show and tell issues. the first time on my first fic here someone commented that they did not elaborate nor did the second however this pre reader did and offered an in depth example using some of my actual story as to the difference and why its more appealing...and I bless my stars for that and have been sense able to produce more enjoyable fiction for my followers . The other thing was gore and I refuse to remove story context to get on any site no offence but yea artistic standard..I have a redone version of my story that did fit the grammar needs and such.
But context...nope not happening and when asked if I could remove it I kindly refused...three times.
However in stark contrast there was the feedback I got from Lullaby...
" Too many sad Pinkie fics"
Not even kidding this was my email....I laughed so hard I couldn't be mad.
I am friends with an EQD pre reader and boy does he have some horror stories so I understand what you guys go through on a daily basis.
Lesson of the wall o text there is good and bad in everything and every design has its flaw.. Im living proof, a decent writer with horrid grammar and good editor
1141133 I'm done arguing, really. I got caught up a bit in the frustration of seeing someone else crushed by EqD's policy, and I said some things I shouldn't have.
I see a lot of these rejection notices. A lot of the problems on them are really opinionated and arbitrary. They all read pretty much the same, and I'd place money against this one being any different. But that's not the point, really.
I say he should ignore EqD and give up trying to go there. Take the review for what it says, and try to find good points in it, but if EqD's demands are such that meeting them will utterly destroy your motivation to ever do things again... they are very much not the site for you.
I suppose I can also clumsily retcon my shouty hatred all over this blog by saying that my primary drive for improvement is by focusing negative energy from criticism into something positive. I can usually channel anger or frustration over something into the drive to see myself succeed anyway, and so temporarily "hating" that entity usually does me wonders even if I happen to be friends with the same entity. And I can usually motivate people into following the same path, and... a lot of times, there's results. I've even been that entity a couple of times, by my own doing. I fall on my sword and get someone to hate me, and it turns them productive and makes them better simply because they're trying to spite me? I count that a victory. Maybe it's the wrong approach to take, and I know it rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but I've seen it work in myself and others, and it was worth a try.
Plus, I got angry because as I said in my other comment, I've been on both sides of the "so harsh it crushes the other person's spirit" fence, and anytime I see it happen it kind of sets me off and I really can't act or speak rationally at that point because I get so overcome with anger at the whole situation. Ugh. I already don't like over half the things I've said on this blog. But... whatever. I'll stand by everything I've ever said even if it's an embarrassment. I'd be a massive hypocrite otherwise.
Bottom line: don't let the viewpoint of one website's pre-readers convince you you're terrible. Don't let anyone convince you you're terrible. If you find another site wholly incompatible with your work, then ignore them and do your thing elsewhere so you can continue to enjoy it. That's what I was trying to say, but worded a little better.
1141266
Instead of going through your entire response bit by bit and dragging this thing out, I'm going to focus on what I believe is your main point of contention with us:
You make it sound as if we're giving these critiques unsolicited, as if we don't make it inordinately clear that we are holding authors to an incredibly high standard that we're fully aware will end up with a grand majority of people being rejected. When you submit your story to us, we operate under the assumption that you're aware of those standards and accept them, as otherwise it's baffling to imagine why you would even be submitting to us in the first place.
The problem I have with you is not what I think you're interpreting it as. By the way you talk, you seem to be going into this with the best of intentions; what I'm trying to tell you now is that you're going about it in an incredibly damaging and unhealthy way, projecting your prior traumas onto other people and expecting them to react in the exact same way you do. I can't judge with any certainty the validity of your experience with your English teacher, but I can tell you that lambasting people who give unforgiving reviews and telling other authors not to listen to them because you found them traumatic and can't imagine how anyone else couldn't, you are, as I said before, acting in an incredibly selfish and self-serving way, regardless of whether you're aware of or intend it in the first place.
Getting posted on EqD is meant to be an honor; it is an assertion that you have put your fic up against some of the most severe critics in the fandom and, having been successfully posted, come out relatively unscathed. You're well within your right to believe that we judge stories too harshly, but you have no right and no prerogative to continue to usurp our judgements with brash and vitriolic assertions that we're not worth the effort to spit on with the intent of convincing others to follow you down that path. All you're doing at that point is cutting them off from a potentially valuable source of advice, and more importantly you're telling them that you don't believe they're strong enough to recover from that criticism themselves, so instead they should come running to you so you can assure them that their story's failure is completely out of their hands. And all because you weren't strong enough to do it yourself.
If you're gonna go around advising other people how to get over harsh criticism, you might want to start by going back and learning how to do it yourself.
1141066
I never once said I wasn't grateful. I never once said I wouldn't listen. I never once gave any single negative word about your precious EQD. I clearly only commented that the fic was ripped apart and my confidence suffered, because I honestly thought it was better than that. I made a post about my personal feelings, and how I was feeling really down and lost at the moment. I really don't feel like my post deserved your assumptions.
It seems you simply assumed that I just wasn't sharing with anyone what the review said. I my feelings and honestly went straight to work on the email, checking each and every critique with my story and discovering for myself whether or not those aspects truly needed to be changed. I'm sorry I didn't stay on here to immediately answer the question. I haven't been online to even answer the question of "how was it taken apart?" I would have gladly answered the question, and I probably still will. I know that a lot of comments on here have focused on "EQD is evil," but that was no reason to come onto my personal page and offend me with words like, "demonizing," "cruel," and "unfair." And to say I attempted to throw someone under the tracks was not even close to the truth. I really only said that my story was ripped apart and it was a rude awakening that left me feeling lost.
That being said, thank you for wishing me luck. I am going to always improve, and I will always strive forward. Sorry if my post above seemed harsh or anything. I was starting to feel offended, but I don't think you meant it that way. I'm sorry if it comes off as offensive.
1141267
Well, let me alleviate your fears on one point, at least. All pre-reader responses go through a common email and are forwarded to all of us as well. So your review was not shared beyond those that have access to see it anyway. Only you and the pre-readers have seen it.
1141289
I will post the parts of the review in question (parts because it ended up being about 4 pages long). However, if you guys don't mind, I would really like to wait a little bit for this heat to die down. I really didn't expect this kind of reaction from my post. I'm sorry...
But definitely, after this heat dies down some, I'll post the parts of the review that didn't simply focus on mechanics and grammar. I would love to see what you guys think of it, too.
Once again, no hard feelings. I totally never meant any to anyone...
1141315
While pretty much everything that can be said at this point has been said, I do want to apologize for the way I worded that bit. That was a dick move on my behalf and I wasn't really thinking. It's unfair of me to go off on you for something that really wasn't your fault. I'm sorry if I offended you, because no, that was not my intent. No hard feelings, eh?
1141312 I don't mean "don't listen to them" as in literally ignore what they say. Listen, but don't let it chart your course as an author and don't allow EqD's standards to become your standards just because "they're the best." I really made a colossal mess of this whole thing, and now I can't talk my way out of this corner without looking like a hypocrite because I have already said things I didn't mean.
When people get crushed by you guys, and give up all hope of writing because they can't meet your standards, it really makes me angry. Because you treat fanfiction like a publishing company, and not only do I fundamentally disagree with your position on that, but I don't like watching other people get stomped on just because they don't have the same attitude as you. Here, I've pretty badly screwed up because there's loads of issues and past stories that all come rising to the surface and all I want to do is start swinging instead of constructing a reasonable argument, and I really do hate that about myself. But all I intend to do is tell people that your standards are not objectively good standards, and they don't need your approval to be good writers. Which could be said of any group or person, for that matter.
I'm just gonna stop talking now. I shouldn't have let my hatred of your group compromise my objectivity. I'm normally a lot more civil than this, I assure you.
1141066 Alright, since you chose to reply to me directly, lemme lay out a few things. You seem to misunderstand that your PR's aren't being th enicet of people Every time someone I know submits to Equestria Daily, they are usually offended in some sort of way. These are people who have asked for my help multiple times on fan fictions. They are seeking some recognition for their hard work, and maybe it's high time you guys set up an actual guide to proof read someone's work. It seems the current method isn't doing much good as many authors I know have been more pissed off about you guys supposed method of 'helping'. Now, I am not saying my method is any better, and it really isn't. I tend to make fun of someone's story, all for a good laugh. That's just to intice people to listen, after all there are so many comments trying to help someone it's very hard to get noticed for it. So, I created a pretty comical system, that many have thanked me for, and many continue to come back for help. The actual review is at the bottom ranging from simple pointers to a total break down of what is wrong.
As for the feature box, I ignore it half the time. I don't seek to read much from it, and on occasion something actually catches my eye. Half of it being filled with sex stories just so happens to stem from the fact bronies are horny I guess. Who knows, but the sex stories always get more views than they deserve. Now that isn't saying all sex stories don't deserve to be in there, because there are the few that are really impressive in detailing, and even story.
I will give EQD this much, you guys can pick a good story, but there are so many you simply skip over because of one reason or another. I don't go to your site to read fan fiction, I come here to read MLP Fan Fiction. I come here to find out the latest news anymore.
Now, I don't want this to create hard feelings between us, as I am just defending what I think, and unless you can present more intelligible rebuttal than 'Oh what bout the sex in the feature' and 'Oh being loved has nothing to do with being right.' Being right has nothing to do with it, it's about doing what is right, and not being a cock in your reviews. There is a difference. No you don't have to accept every submission, and hell it'd probably be better if EQD would just direct everyone to this site for fan fiction. Trust me there are enough independent review people to actually tell someone if a fic is good or not.
All in all, EQD has yet to impress me on their choosing anyways, and that is my opinion. Yes, I had an opinion on it before everyone was circlejerking around EQD hate. I've stopped using you guys completely due to the simple fact you guys cannot play nice with others. I use r/mylittlepony for any news about anything anymore. I Deviant Art for any art being created. Finally, I certainly use this site to find all the fan fiction I need.
Final Thoughts: EQD is not hated because they are right, EQD is hated for not doing what is right for the author.
1141315 I apologize for jumping on that EQD is evil train, it was just unclear about what you post was about. Sorry it got to this point, and thank you for taking it and trying to improve. I appreciate that in an author, and you show a lot more potential than most. As for the Chromosome guy, eh he's partially right, along with the others. People on this site tend to circlejerk or bandwagon EQD hate around here. Just a heads up next time you post something, there are a lot of things like that around here. EQD hate just happens to be the one most people do.
Anyways, if you need help, like I've said before I'm always open. I'll help touch up anything you need, and try my best to help you find something to improve upon.
Never give in to the infidels, blasphemers all, they shall burn in righteous fire!
1141066
If you guys didn't care about Essay format, then more of you pre-readers would consider MLA/APA writing, rather than your awful Chicago/Oxford/Harvard style writing. Srsly.
1141066
Also that comment made to Eldorado at the bottom