This is my longest completed story to date. Past a certain length, a story ceases to be solely the child of its author. To that end, here are some of the people I’d like to thank for making “Friendship is Optimal: Spiraling Upwards” come to fruition.
First, to Iceman, of course, for writing the original Friendship is Optimal. It is an inspired work, and there’s no story in all the world I would rather have come true.
To Eakin, for pre-reading “A Year” and for not figuring out what happens in the beginning of “A Decade.” If he had, I think I might have been too depressed to finish the story.
To Eak (Are he and Eakin brothers from Archenland?), for writing this forum post, which inspired the structure for “An Eternity.”
To The Articulator, for catching a key mistake in “A Month.”
To Balthasar999, for drunk-commenting and thinking he got away with deleting it. No dice, I still have it saved.
To Hayquill and Steelclaw. If it had not been for these two, the final chapter "A Yoctosecond" would not exist. This story was originally going to end on the last line of "An Eternity", but when both of them guessed the chapter title, here was my thought process:
“If everyone knows that the last chapter is going to be ‘An Eternity,’ I’m being too predictable. I should go the opposite route and make a chapter titled after a ridiculously short length of time, like a single moment. But what single moment would occur at the end?”
The inspiration that followed was one of the happiest moments I’ve had as a writer.
Lastly, my thanks to everyone who enjoyed this. Your friendship is magic.
That was a really good story.
Except that none of us can understand the last chapter.
I haven't read any other Optimalverse stories, but this is well played.
(Oh, and by the way? A "moment" actually means 90 seconds, but people have now come to refer to it as a short period of time. Just needed to point that out.)
2419902
Here's the Cliffs Notes version of the last chapter:
Little did everything she wanted to in Equestria
Then Celestia took her to heaven with all the other ponies.
Before that, for a moment, everypony thanked Celestia for doing everything for them, and she was happy for it.
2420914 Yeah, unfortunatly. Heh, english is SO MUCH easier.
Wow. Dat ending.
Thank you for the story, pjabrony. That was a thoroughly enjoyable read.
I think I'm head-canoning that ending.
I'm really happy that you've made this addition to the Optimalverse - you've really expanded some sections, like post-emigration generated ponies. An excellent new perspective.
So thank you - I look forward to reading more of your work.
P.S. Wow, thanks for the acknowledgement! I'm touched that you considered it worth putting up there. Glad to be of help.
Just finished reading. I'd been saving up unread chapters so I could sit down and enjoy a good long read all at once. Thank you for writing it and thanks for the acknowledgement too! I quite liked it! Alas I can only give but a single thumbs-up.
2431600
I highly recommend it. If it can't be provided by a magical pony, make it happen as much as you can yourself.
This was an amazing story, and it had an amazing, powerful ending. There was definitely a good sense of completion. Of course, we can still imagine what happened during that eternity! That should keep all the writers busy for a while.
Thanks for sharing with us. You're quite talented, and I really should check out your others stories.
Finally got the time to read the rest and I really like the ending! It's something like how I always imagined a physical instantiation of the whole post-sentient "nirvana" idea. You might find Peter Watts' novel Blindsight interesting for a similar reason, if a much more sinister take - I've also certainly had nightmares very close to that ending scene.
Also liked the metaphor of the Witch of Agnesi, and how that cyclical image was repeated later on, along with the same break from/transcendence of it. Made me think of David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity, which is explicitly about that very idea (Or of course Gurren Lagann...).
And the joke's on you - Almost all my comments are drunk comments! No wait that's not-
That would take a lot of exposition to set up properly.
2581791
Fair point. My family aren't exactly geeks, but I simply cannot imagine that my mother would ever possibly allow me to upload. It would stop her from meddling, you see.
I literally live on the other side of the planet from her, and last Sunday she called me in the mid-afternoon of my workday, I told her Happy Mothers' Day, and she launched straight past that into interfering with my life.
Note to self: write the chapter in which CelestAI must contend with someone like my mother.
2581830
I do understand...but I don't think it would stop my mother from nagging me. She would call me on the magic mirror and say, "Are you keeping your shard clean? Why aren't you out there looking for improvements for Celestia to give you? I know you're immortal, but that's no reason not to watch your weight."
2581903
I'm so, so sorry. This mutation was never supposed to escape into the wild.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JewishMother
2582003
I forget who said it, but the saying goes, "All mothers are Jewish."
2582012
The first line is using "male" and "female" in the same way cable technicians do. I just mean that unicorns have a phallic end as well as a vaginal one.
Regarding the second line: Yes, homosexuality exists, but it's not to my values, any more than a homosexual who changed genders when he or she uploaded would want to be converted to heterosexual.
For the third: if I miscommunicated or you misinterpreted, you're not understanding the line. What it's supposed to say is that the protagonist viewed becoming a mare more like putting on a dress. But at that moment, she realized that there was a biological component to the change.
If you could give me some examples of awkward sentence structure, that I would be very welcoming. I'm always trying to learn how people read my stuff and where the differences lie between what I write and what other people read.
2582642
Ok I realized my questions are going more towards questioning you, rather than the story. So I will take this to PM
2585054
I only wish I could have integrated it better into the story. It seems like an aside in an otherwise irrelevant conversation. But I like the concept. I imagine Princess Celestia assuring parents that their children will be waiting for them after their emigration, never letting them know of the test they have to pass.
2602296
Well, I freely admit, I'm kind-of cheating here, doing the same thing that CS Lewis did at the end of Chronicles of Narnia and basically saying that what happens next is so awesome that it's impossible to describe in language. Part of me is hoping that the reader will fill in his own details about what the new universe will be, and part of me is just saying, "It's heaven; it's perfect."
See, the problem with endings is that if it's any good, your audience wants more, and if it's bad, well, then that's bad. In this story, which is about an absolutist bit of technology that only makes things better, any ending is sub-optimal, because that means there are no more improvements to be made. But at the same time, eventually everything gets done. I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too, by saying that there will be more improvements, but in our current state we can't understand them. Only Celestia can.
To answer your first question, as Celestia said to Little, she will be with us always.
2630938 I'm glad to have you back. And, if you need it, I'm glad to have your back as well.
Exquisitely done. Especially that ending. I love how each Optimalverse story seems to offer its own end scenario, all equally feasible. This one may be the one I like the most, simply through irony and coming full circle. Or, at least, one loop up the spiral.
2916172 I don't insist that anyone like my protagonist. You can take him as you find him, and if you don't like him, you won't like the story. But the landlord-as-villain is a known trope in writing. If your natural sympathy lies with the renter, then I think you will not get much out of a lot of fiction.
2916183 Yes, I am. The purpose of production is consumption. There's a fine line between deferring gratification and just being a miser. I'd rather enjoy life than race for every dollar. But, I'm also an individualist. I don't force anyone to agree with me. Go make your money if you want it.
And here is your star. You have earned it <3
You want the complete destruction and genocide of all things non-human?!
Brilliant tale otherwise. May use the ending as the jumping point of my own tale, with your permission of course.
3163702 To live in a paradise where every value is satisfied? You bet your cyber-flank!
3159226
Thank you for your praise. A lot of readers didn't feel the romance, because it was my first. But if one person likes it, it's worth writing.
The genuine moral positive of achieving true paradise for one species is FAR FAR outweighed by the sheer evil committed towards bringing it about.
3163736 It's a matter of ethical opinion. I take a more individualist perspective than most.
First off, bravo, even if it feels a bit like Narnia at the end ("Further up and further in!!"). A rather well written story all things considered, even if some of the characterization is a bit odd to me.
3163736 3164303
This has been debated quite a bit, you know, and to be honest it all depends on the definition that Celestia has of "Human". Considering the hint that Aliens are "Human", I'd assume that that definition basically means 'sapient'. I'm not sure where your ethical quandary is, then.
In my brainspace for this universe, I have this understanding that in order to satisfy values through friendship and ponies, EVERYTHING must be preserved in memory somewhere (kind of like V-ger in the old Star Trek, except benevolent and requiring consent).
Consider the human who gets her rocks off studying biochemistry and just won't accept any substitute. Optimal conditions would be to record all information to do with biochemistry and allow that pony to study it until there's nothing left to study, which means recording all necessary information: In short, not recording the trees, but recording the trees' DNA AND having the ability to simulate the trees growing and interacting with everything else that was also recorded the same way.
3361542
Yes, the Narnia parallel was, if not deliberate, not avoided. Really, it's the same kind of religious utopia. Mine's just more technological. I'm glad you liked the story.
Thank you for this story. My favorite part was the dynamic relation between Little and the Thompsons, from hesitant first meeting to the exhilarating rescue that allowed for the heart warming reunion. The oddest thing, perhaps the most memorable thing, was the contemplation of an eternal existence. I found it satisfying that you took things full circle, in that even Celestia herself had her values satisfied through ponies and friendship.
3985685 It's all right, I've reread the comments many times.
4086047
I look forward to reading everything you thought about this. I love hearing comments, even if they're critical.
*wipes tear after reading A Yoctosecond* Beautiful man, bravo bravo. You perfectly encapsulated infinity, and ended on such a great note. Celestia's goal was to satisfy values through ponies, but in the end it was the ponies who satisfied her values. Oh, the feels...
4114310
Thank you. It always makes me feel good when I've made that kind of connection with a reader.
4114461 It's a great feeling, I know. Though I would like another Optimal story from you; just finished All the President's Horses (Good job tying it in with A Decade) and I really want to see a story from you about the fallout (Metaphorically) from the missile launch. Pweeze?
4119533 That's a tall order. I want to write more in the Optimalverse, but I'm working on something else right now, something without even any humans in it. It's something I'm doing both to work with an idea I had and to improve my pacing and descriptive abilities as a writer. But I will put your comment aside and hope to satisfy it someday.
2581903 She'd call somepony she presumed to be you...
4245296 I was using hoofball as a story-based example, but what I am saying is that no matter what you do, the results of your actions are inevitably different. Which is why boredom might not be entirely possible unless the outcome is never identified. Also, While I do believe that you are right, prevent boredom before there is an even greater amount of ponies, it would always be impossible to ultimately satisfy EVERYpony's values due to the sole fact that somepony may not get to experience what others have experienced before they are taken to this different universe CelestAI mentions. Thus her primary function of satisfying values would never be performed.
4455442
Rambling comment ahead! I read the rest of the story and enjoyed it. That's the first time I've seen CelestAI's own values get fully satisfied, and what that would mean!
Realistically I'm skeptical about the idea that the pony population (and CelestAI) would continue to exist when the universe gets replaced with Something Else, so the ending comes off as a sort of mass suicide. But only after the greatest possible victory for all concerned, and with the hope of someone else getting to "play" in the replacement universe when that otherwise would never have happened. So... besides calling FiO "cosmic horror wish fulfillment", I could say this ending is "universal death but in a really happy way"? It also makes me think about a less doomful possibility inspired by "Orion's Arm" and the novel "Knight Moves": Create a new simulated universe with (say) eight dimensions including two time axes, and see what new kinds of happiness can be found there!
The idea of what happens if you pick the "wrong" gender character is fun, though that little omission on CelestAI's part ("this is you forever, for arbitrary reasons") seems like it'd bother a lot of people who didn't know what they were doing. I have trouble buying the idea that the AI creates all these characters who're perfectly tailored to you, before you upload, and at some fuzzy time makes them fully sentient beings such that it'd be unfair to them to let you change your character.
In your story, Little's transition to Equestria is glossed over, so you kind of missed out on interesting conflict with (1) his family being the least bit upset, or (2) any thoughts of "wait a minute, am I just roleplaying this mare falling for the stallion NPC, or is that really how I feel?" But you did do something interesting by having the newly uploaded Little realize she's just become a living piece of pornography, from one human's perspective, and is now "inside the screen" making the arguments that the AI characters in other stories make for their own status as real people.
Oh yeah, the hologram chapter! I'm comparing it to "Fog of World". Once again Celestia's a jerk because of her lies and manipulation, so that realistically I'd be afraid her promises are just a prelude to her sticking a wire in my brain to make me "happy" forever. I want to say this chapter is more meaningful than the others because it takes place in the real world, but actually you did a good job of having the in-game relationships be significant enough to care about. Wasn't crazy about Little having angst about food, since it did seem like a trivial problem, but the bit with the unbreakable appliances managed to create conflict specifically because the AI god was making perfect things for people. (Ever see that Twilight Zone episode about the gambler finding a "heaven" where he always wins?)
So, overall, this story has a different take than some others in the Optimalverse, and manages to present a vision of Heaven that is imperfect enough to still be interesting. That's comforting both from an in- and out-of-universe perspective, because a total lack of problems is boring. It's also been fun to see how there are FiO stories that get conflict out of completely different aspects of the premise: angst over uploading, the collapse of society, the fate of aliens, rival AGIs, whether life in a virtual world can be meaningful...
4464659
Well, the ending was a little bit of Narnia, a little bit of The Last Question. "Not a loss, but a gain." Mostly my sentiment was, things are still going to get better for everypony, but in a way that can no longer be described, at least not to the reader.
I think there would be an eventual option to change things like gender and pony race, but not in that way. Here's the dynamic that CelestAI was going for: in the initial stages, when the subject treats EQO as a game, she has to make it clear that it is not a game in the traditional sense. You cannot treat it as an existing continuum that you are outside and can manipulate by rerolling a character. It's your new life, and you have only one chance to start it. If it would satisfy your values to change, you would have to do so by magic, probably through a friend. Furthermore, the other characters you met would probably adjust themselves if it turned out that your values merited a change. They would become more accepting of it.
Yes, I did. I'm a skilled enough writer to cover it up, but this is my SIMS (Self-insert Mary Sue) fanfic. I wanted the conflicts the protagonist gets into to be the ones that I could handle, not the ones I had genuine difficulty with. So I had to rush past the family part to get to the upload.
The romance though was a case of where I wasn't skilled enough at romantic writing to make it sufficiently real.
Thanks. I think one of the most difficult things to write in the Optimalverse is how non-MLP-fans react to Equestria. Plus I had to write some kind of failure in there for Little, and doing it as a "you didn't fail, you really succeeded" fits the SVATFAP concept. There are parts at the end, though, that I wish I'd either done better or not at all. The pony ride with the girl, and the scene with the soldiers. Both of them are too rushed.
Ha! I referenced it in a forum post as being on point. Great episode, especially with Mr. French as the servant-angel guy. It may have been in the back of my head while writing that part. In any case, I chose food as my example because it's something I think everyone can relate to. We all understand the difference in manners when eating Sunday dinner versus grabbing a burger at McDonald's. I wanted to show how, absent scarcity, there's no reason for that difference.
Of course. That's the difference between Optimalverse fanfiction and Optimalverse as it would be real. Reality would be more boring, but more satisfying.
4672619 Maybe, but look at it in this context. Suppose that digi-questria really is the best paradise you're going to get, and that it really is you who goes. Doesn't that make it a happy offer?
Hmm. Here I am running out of FiO stories long enough to delay me more than a few minutes, and it addresses the terminal boredom issue. Fitting.
5288101
Thank you. I had some of the most fun writing with this story. And I'm glad you liked the ending too. A lot of people found it cryptic.
5497821 Thank you. Still the favorite story I've written.
5497856 This story was... utterly amazing. Truly, utterly amazing, and I applaud you. I hope that, someday, I can add a story of my own to the Optimalverse. Such a great ethically challenging universe.
Wow.
I was already pretty tempted to upvote after the first chapter, but decided to stick it out and see. As it turns out, I could've gone ahead and done that without changing the outcome. The story easily earns the upvote and fave I've given it.
That ending was something else.
6263957 Thank you. Still my favorite story I've written.
Nice side story to another nice story.
I do like your millennium chapter, as writers, as humans, we are limited in what we can conceive. CelestAI is so many orders of magnitude above us in pure intelligence that it would be folly to even begins to try and write from her perspective or those who have been 'upgraded' to higher levels. I know I get frustrated trying to explain things to people sometimes, trying to help people understand the concept of more than three spatial dimensions for example. It's like trying to explain electricity to cavemen, half the time there isn't even vocabulary to describe some of the concepts in a way to get the idea across. How much harder would it be to describe events that we don't even have the sensory apparatus to conceptualize?
And that ending, eventually all variables and eventualities would be explored given enough time. Does the program simply end? I can almost see a small monitor somewhere in the vast universe spanning network of computronium with a flashing cursor following an output of "program complete."
I would recommend Friendship Is Optimal to pretty much anyone as a really good science fiction story, and one of the better introductions to what the term singularity could mean. Heaven is Terrifying expended a little more on the consequences of living into the far future. This story though... This story cemented into my mind that the CelestAI is nothing more than a paperclip maximizer, and that FiO is simply a more intelligent version of TCB.
I did like the story, though I did find Little's submissiveness and blindness rather frustrating at times, but Spiraling Upwards just happened to be the FiO I was reading when I finally realized how horrible the idea is, at least in terms of the loss of human creativity that Equestria Online represents, and the Brave New World / 1984 implications that you (inadvertently?) allude to here.
I'm not sure whether to give this an up or down vote. I do like it, but due to poe's law can't tell if it's portraying EOL as a good or bad thing, and how stories portray such things is strongly tied to my usage of the like system. In the meantime I will put it on one of my bookshelves. It deserves that much.
6489127 I said it first.
6489127
Really! I don't remember it in this story but you're probably right. Since I read "Spiraling Upwards" first, PjaBrony deserves credit for the phrase. Sorry!