Scientific Method
For the next three weeks, Pincer was subjected to daily interrogations that stretched on for hours at a time. On some days it was Saber asking the questions; on others, it was a different guard. Among other things, they demanded military intelligence outright, they tried to make him doubt his loyalty to his queen, they prodded him that he must surely have people who were worried about him, and they told him of the suffering the attack on Canterlot had caused to try to make him feel guilty about his involvement with the actions of the other changelings. They threatened to deprive him of his daily free exercise time, which had been his only chance to stretch his wings since he'd been captured.
Despite the relentless questioning, his growing hunger, and his helpless dread at his seeming fate, his desire to save his podmates and The Hive gave him the strength to resist. Whether by simply repeating the answer he'd given the first day, or remaining coldly silent, or turning his back to them completely, he denied them any shred of information. They always left coolly and professionally at the end of each session until, finally, Mystic Saber lost patience with him.
"How much longer are you going to keep this up? Do you plan to stay here until you die, just so we can't protect ourselves from your queen?"
This was the first time they'd ever asked him that. Some nerve in Pincer, worn raw by weeks of isolation and relentless questioning, finally snapped. He gave his guards a fixed glare.
"Listen to me, horses. I'm not telling you anything, and I never will. I know why you're asking me these things. We're nothing but monsters to you. You want to finish us off, make sure we'll never threaten you again. You'll burn our home to the ground. Don't think I believe for a second that you would've given me the hospitality you have if I didn't have information you needed." He began to shout. "Kill me! Just kill me! I'm not talking!"
Saber simply exchanged a brief look with his companion.
"Listen to me, prisoner. This is my fifth year serving in the Royal Guard, and I can tell you that we are nothing like you think we are. We have always conducted ourselves with pride and honor, and to commit the atrocities you described would be an affront to everything we stand for. We do not kill prisoners, we do not burn towns, and we do not commit any other forms of wanton brutality. We protect the ponies of Equestria, and we only want you to talk so we can do that more effectively.
"All right, I think we're done for today. In the meantime, I'd suggest you think about this session. Things would be better for everypony involved if you would just cooperate, and unless you learn to see that, you're going to be in here for a very long time."
The guards turned and left, and as their retreating hoofsteps grew quieter, and Pincer was left once again to find solace in his books.
With a groan, Twilight gave the book she'd been reading a telekinetic shove and sent it tumbling onto the floor. As she did so, a thump echoed across the Royal Library's shelves of books and scrolls.
She winced when she realized what she'd done, and her magic enveloped the book once again. She brought it in front of her, turning it over and flipping through it. To her relief, it was undamaged; since she was alone in the library, nobody would need to know that she'd been so careless with one of Canterlot Castle's tomes. Having no more use for it, she floated it up to the top shelf and nestled it where she had found it.
Her worry taken care of, she could once again make room in her mind for her exasperation. She'd been sure that if any book in this room could help her, it was that one! With her magic she snatched up a long list from the floor, along with a quill, and struck out the book's title from it. Looking further down it and seeing how few items remained, she bit her lip. It was starting to seem that what Cadance was asking just wasn't possible. There were still books and scrolls to check, though, so Twilight's work wasn't done. After all, the next one could have the spell she was looking for.
She telekinetically lifted her list and quill and cantered out from between the ceiling-touching shelves, which stretched out from the center of the room like the spokes of a wheel, and around the large hourglass that dominated the center. As she did so, the parchment flapped behind her. The moment her eyes found the next book, she extended a magical thread that yanked it off off of the shelf and began flipping the pages, her eyes sweeping them for any mention of love. While she was picking apart the meaning of a particularly obtusely-written paragraph about the theoretical origins of the various types of love, the library door creaked open.
"What!" Twilight turned towards the door on the spot, the book snapping itself shut behind her.
It was Vigilant Watcher, a thundercloud-gray unicorn mare of the Royal Guard. She was in a defensive posture, one front leg drawn back and horn pointed forward. Twilight, realizing that she had startled Watcher in turn, sheepishly curled her tail beneath her. "Oh. Sorry, Mrs. Watcher."
Watcher let her posture relax and smiled. "Good to see you're keeping at it. Much as I hate to interrupt, Princess Celestia wants to see you."
"Oh...." Twilight stood up and straightened her posture. "Sure! Sure. Did she say why?"
"No, but between you and me, it probably has something to do with that changeling."
"Oh, of course." Twilight's horn glowed, and the book flew back to its place on the shelf. Then she rolled up her list and tucked it into a corner with her quill.
"I'd better be right over, then." Her eyes widened and she glanced at her list again. "Oh, I hope she doesn't expect me to have found something by now!" With that she trotted past Watcher, who gave her a reassuring smile, and out the door.
It didn't take her long to reach the entrance to Celestia's throne room. The pair of unicorn guards standing at the towering, ornate doors nodded in unison, their horns glowed, and the doors slowly creaked open. She thanked them and slipped in.
The doors banged shut behind her, the sound echoing through the spacious room. Though she'd been there many times before, Twilight couldn't help but look around. The mirror-polished, turquoise floor stretched out far on either side of the smooth, immaculate red carpet. Meticulously crafted, vividly-colored stained-glass windows lined the walls, touching a ceiling she would have had to crane her neck to see. They depicted all of the finest moments of Equestria's history; she could feel herself blushing at seeing herself portrayed in some of them. Sitting atop the towering golden throne that dominated the center of the far wall was Princess Celestia, who was smiling warmly.
"It's nice to see you again, Twilight. Cadance told me how hard you've been working on your assignment."
Twilight slumped a bit, her gaze flickering towards the floor. Celestia's frowned in concern.
"Is something wrong?"
Twilight snapped to attention. "It's... well... I'm sorry, Princess, but I haven't... haven't been able to..." She swallowed, then shook her head.
"I haven't been able to find anything yet."
"That's quite alright," Celestia said. "I know that you've been asked to do a very difficult, perhaps impossible, task. I haven't called you here because I expect you to have finished it by now. I understand that these things take time."
Twilight breathed a sigh of relief.
Celestia's eyes narrowed slightly. "However, time is a luxury we may not be able to afford. I assume that Cadance has kept you informed of the changeling prisoner's condition?"
Twilight nodded.
"Then you understand that we're in a difficult situation. If we let him go without having received the information we need from him, we put the ponies of Equestria at risk. If we allow a captive prisoner to starve to death through our own negligence, we put our entire way of life at risk.
"Since the Royal Guard began interrogating the changeling weeks ago, he has not given us a single piece of useful information. We don't know if there are changelings disguising themselves and spying on ponies as we speak. We don't know if another attack is imminent. We don't even know if any of them besides Queen Chrysalis have names. We need a new approach. We need someone who knows how to study and understand. We need someone who can not just question, but research."
In one smooth motion, Celestia leaped off of her throne and touched down almost noiselessly at the base of the steps.
"Twilight, I want you to interview the prisoner."
Twilight's eyebrows raised and her eyes widened. "M—me, Princess?"
Celestia nodded. "Yes, Twilight. This is my newest assignment for you, and given the situation, it would be best to do it as soon as possible."
"I... I don't know, Princess," Twilight said, frowning. "I've never really done this kind of thing before. I'm not sure how much help I'd be."
"I wouldn't have told you to do this if I didn't think you could. You've done great things before, and you can do so again. I have faith in you. You must have faith in yourself. Do you understand?"
For a moment, Twilight simply took in what she'd heard, Celestia looking at her expectantly. As uncertain as she was, she couldn't deny the truth to her mentor's words; the windows of Celestia's own throne room stood as testaments to Twilight's accomplishments.
"I'll be down there this evening, Princess."
Celestia smiled. "I'm glad to hear that. Good luck, Twilight."
Twilight bowed until she was dismissed, then briskly trotted out of the throne room, head held high with new determination.
The next few hours were a flurry of activity. Quill and fresh parchment trailing behind her as she cantered about, Twilight interviewed doctors, nurses, guards, soldiers, anyone that could give her insight into interrogation procedures, the changeling's state of mind, and what had already been tried and failed. It was with great fascination that she jotted down Dr. Hooves' description of his two skeletons, Nurse Bill's revelation of his literature preferences, and Lieutenant Saber's stories of his seemingly unbreakable will. Every fact she learned and every note she made built up her anticipation for the chance to talk to a member of a species that ponies knew almost nothing about.
By the time she had inked in her last note on the remaining free corner in the parchment, Celestia had begun lowering the sun. She made one last stop beforehand, heading to her guest room to roll the parchment and tuck it into her saddlebag along with another blank one to take notes on during the interrogation. Once the saddlebag was securely strapped to her back, she descended into the dungeon and asked one of the unicorn guards to lead her to the changeling.
When the guard stopped in front of one of the cells and announced that they'd arrived, Twilight was taken by surprise. As they'd approached, there had been no noise coming from the cell, nor was there any sight of its occupant. It wasn't until she peered through the bars that she saw the changeling, sitting at the flimsy desk and staring down listlessly at a book. As soon as she'd finished thanking the guard, she popped open her saddlebag and floated out her quill and both rolls of parchment, unrolling the piece containing the notes and questions. As he was leaving, she tapped the stone floor with her hoof to get the prisoner's attention.
"Excuse me? I need to talk to you for a bit."
Her voice wasn't like the others'; it sounded young and feminine, but without the huskiness that the mares in the Royal Guard had. It was devoid of intimidation or displays of anger, too. It sounded curious, almost friendly. Pincer turned his head toward his visitor involuntarily. She was a purple unicorn mare levitating a quill and parchment, leaning forward on her haunches in anticipation.
Seeing who it was, Pincer stumbled away from the desk and narrowed his eyes at her. He recognized Twilight Sparkle not only because she was one of the Element bearers they'd been so exhaustively briefed on, but also because of what he so vividly remembered from the Battle of Canterlot.
He'd been charging at the Element Bearers, he and hundreds of other drones. He could still clearly imagine the thundering and vibrations of thousands of hooves against the ground. They were galloping for all they were worth, entire clusters of them, knowing that they were facing dangerous foes and that it was vital that they not let them retrieve the Elements of Harmony. They hadn't been fast enough; the Bearers were poised and ready to fight, and they'd thrown aside the entire force in minutes. Twilight Sparkle had personally wounded him, along with many of the others, with some kind of directed energy from her horn. By the time he'd managed to pull himself to a standing position again, the Bearers were long gone.
"Hey, you can relax! I'm not here to hurt you! I just want to ask some questions. I've never had a chance to talk to a changeling before, and besides that, I think I can help you. Celestia's getting rather worried, you know, and so is Cadance. They've told me you haven't been able to feed on any love since you got here, and they don't want you to starve. So if you could just tell me what we need to know so I can get Celestia to release you, or even just something that could help me and Cadance find a way to feed you, or... or... I mean, maybe..."
Pincer had kept his posture fixed the entire time, giving no acknowledgment of Twilight's words. In response, she stomped a hoof in impatience.
"Listen to me! I'm trying to help you here!" Pincer wasn't able to stop himself from cringing. Twilight wasn't an ordinary guard; she was a powerful sorceress and a student chosen by Celestia herself, one who wasn't disciplined to the degree that the guards who'd been handling him were. Twilight getting angry could very well get him killed.
Grimly realizing that this would solve a lot of problems, he began speaking in the most casual voice he could manage.
"And why do you want to help me? Did you forget what I did? I was at Canterlot. I helped capture that pink princess so that my Queen could bleed that brother of yours dry. It would've been doing you all a favor, really. He was so bad at his job, he couldn't even slow us down. I'm sure my Queen could've replaced him with someone better."
Twilight gasped, then glared at Pincer. "Hey! Don't you talk about my brother that way!" She walked towards the cell dangerously. Pincer didn't bat an eye.
"Your brother is weak. Your mentor isn't much better. You found out the hard way that your Princess Celestia couldn't compare to my Queen. You're wasting your talent, working for someone so powerless. If you'd only been born a changeling, you could've learned from the best, the strongest... the greatest."
"And what do you know about strength, or greatness?" Twilight crept forward until her horn was nearly touching the bars, then stomped her hoof again. "Being strong isn't about being able to win fights or push ponies around! Celestia and my brother are strong in ways you'd never understand! I'm glad I wasn't born as one of you! You're horrible!"
Pincer stepped closer to the bars. "'Strong in ways I'd never understand'? You're just saying that because it sounds good. What's this strength, then? Go on. Tell me."
As Pincer advanced, Twilight tilted her head down. Her horn now pointed at him. "How about the strength to do what's right? Or stand up for others? That sounds better to me than your idea of strength!"
"Is that the strength that left your Princess lying on the ground for us to feed on?"
Twilight's horn flashed a brilliant magenta, leaving spots swimming in Pincer's vision. Confused and disoriented, but apparently unharmed, he shook his head and blinked a few times. He could hear Twilight's breath coming through clenched teeth, and as his sight cleared he saw that she was still glaring at him. Her horn, now glowing brightly, remained pointed at him. He knew she'd done something, but it didn't seem to be killing him or even hurting him. Was it some subtle poisoning spell? No, even if she was angry, that was too sadistic for her.
He tried to speak, but his mouth wouldn't open. No matter how he strained and struggled, he couldn't move his jaw at all; it felt as if it had been bolted shut. Of course. She was holding it in place with her magic, robbing him of the ability to talk. Twilight was still glaring at him, but her breathing was becoming more even and regular. He needed to put her on the attack quickly, or he'd lose his chance.
Seeing how carelessly close she'd gotten to the bars, he lunged. With his mouth sealed shut, he used his only available weapon to try to strike at her horn — his hoof. As soon as Pincer saw her eyes widen in shock and felt the tingle of her horn's magic field at the edge of his hoof, there was another magenta flash and he felt something strike his chest. The next moment was a flurry of confusion and pain; Pincer felt his body getting battered everywhere, his legs twisting and flopping and his head whipping from the blows. When he came to his senses he found himself sprawled on the floor of his cell, face pressed against the dusty black stone.
Disappointed but very much alive, he was slow and shaky getting back on his hooves. Luckily, his exoskeleton had done its job, so it was more from being knocked off-balance than anything else. Once standing, he looked dispassionately through the bars at Twilight, who had backed up from them and was now standing with front legs bent forward ready and horn still pointed at him. It was no longer glowing, though.
"What is the matter with you? Why would you try to do that? Don't you realize that all you're doing is making things harder on yourself?" she asked.
His last hope for release dashed, Pincer's lifetime of training finally met its limit. He found himself slumping and couldn't be bothered to correct his posture.
"I knew you couldn't have seriously hurt me, and you had to know it too! It's almost like you were just trying to get me to... to..." Twilight frowned and her eyes grew large.
"You really want to die, don't you? The guards mentioned..." she said softly.
Pincer could only stare hollowly at her. Surely she wasn't feeling actual sympathy for him?
"You want to die because you're afraid that if you live, you'll tell us something you don't want to. You'll fail to protect them. That's why you haven't told us anything." Twilight sat on her haunches, tail curled around her hooves.
"It doesn't have to be this way. I don't know what Queen Chrysalis has told you about us, but we wouldn't just start killing changelings out of some sick sense of revenge. We aren't going to hurt anypony we don't have to. That's not how we are."
"And why wouldn't you? Would you really spare them? Aren't we your enemies?"
"Right now you are, but do you have to be?" As if asking the question had hit a switch inside her, Twilight straightened her posture a bit, giving Pincer an expectant look.
"Yes!" Pincer hissed. "We're predators. You're prey. We feed on your love. That's how we survive. Don't tell me you didn't know this."
"Well, it's true. But don't you think it's a bit of a leap to assume you have to go around terrorizing ponies and overthrowing kingdoms? We get love from other ponies like our parents, and spouses, and siblings. We didn't have to attack anyone for it."
"Don't act as if you have a better way. If you did, I wouldn't be starving. You need me alive."
"Actually, I don't yet. I've been spending the past few weeks researching it, though, so there's no reason to give up on it so quickly."
"Weeks? And you haven't come up with anything?"
Twilight shook her head and sighed. "Don't you understand how research works? These things take time and effort, especially when it's a problem like this one that nopony's looked into before. We need to read and study and experiment and guess, and there's no telling how long any particular project or problem will take. That's why ponies who study magic and other branches of science have to spend years studying their fields and possibly decades before they have any major breakthroughs. Haven't you talked to any of your scientists about what they do?" Her gaze turned upward and she put a hoof to her chin. Her horn glowed and the quill, which had been laying neglected on the floor, began scribbling furiously. "Do changelings even have scientists? Surely if you did, they would've looked into solving this problem. Surely you'd want safer ways to get food than attacking ponies."
"I don't know if you've noticed, but I don't have years or decades. Here's one for your research logs: I can't live more than a few months without love." An enemy didn't need to know that science as a concept was actually entirely foreign to The Hive.
Like an electric shock, Pincer's words broke the stride of Twilight's lecture. Her spell blinked out, the quill floating to the ground as her head turned down and away from Pincer.
"That's right. I was so focused on correcting you that I didn't even consider... look, I'll figure something out." She took a breath.
"I promise," she said a bit too insistently. In response to Pincer's silence, Twilight let out a sigh and levitated her parchment and quill again, rolling up the former before nestling it in her saddlebag. With a last bit of magic she snapped it shut.
"I... don't really have anything else I wanted to talk about. I'm glad you told me at least a little bit about what's going on, though. I'll get back to you when I've made progress." With that, she trotted off. As the sound of Twilight having a conversation with a guard that he couldn't quite make out reached his ears, Pincer mulled over what had happened.
It was strange. He was a soldier, and since The Hive didn't even have scientists, he trusted her even less than he had the Royal Guards. Even so, it was from her that he'd received what may have been one of the few signs of solidarity he'd seen since arriving here. Odder still, he wasn't seeing any of the signs of deception he'd been trained to.
For that matter, it hardly seemed as if they'd send Twilight down if their intent was to deceive him. The Hive had gathered more than enough information on her to know that she was a scholar rather than an interrogator. She wasn't trained to lie or manipulate or break the spirits of prisoners. That was why she'd lost her temper so quickly.
What if they weren't being completely dishonest with him? Unpleasant as it was to think that he would die in here knowing only the company of those who would go to any means to destroy him, at least that left him knowing where he stood and what to do. His entire plan, his entire view of life, hinged on the idea that he couldn't expect any compassion or honesty at the hooves of ponies.
It was with a great sense of irony that Pincer realized that, despite weeks of intense effort from Celestia's best, none of his interrogations had been as confusing or as troubling as the one that had just ended.
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Yay, more Pincer, and this was interesting, especially giving that yeah, Pinkie used Twilight to blast them with the magic.
Also, yeah, Twilight would make a great Changeling, like this.
lh5.googleusercontent.com/--CWdRe4IXKA/UFzJGiqWr_I/AAAAAAAAHow/iTU1CqP0-LA/s1600/ChangelingTwilightSparkleElementofCurses.png
A newbie breaking a hardened soldier? That doesn't happen irl but always serves to be a nice albeit cliche method in storytelling not knocking it by the laws of storytelling he's going to have to break sometime. Just hope it isn't cliche.
Moooooooar
2434560 Neither do equines talk, use magic, or walk on clouds; nor are there quadrupedal arthropods that feed on love!
Suspended Disbelief, my friend, you'll appreciate these stories a little more if you apply some...
2434560 When you're trained to resist one kind of interrogation it leaves you open to other forms. The Canadian government got loads of information off a taliban prisoner years back by taking him to a casino and spoiling him, gave him the high roller treatment. He was giving them everything just to keep it going. Then when the US picked him up and took him away to Gitmo he never said another word.
Of course our way took several thousand taxpayer dollars
Great to see this update. Can't wait for the next chapter.
Love the story. Keep it up.
I have to admit, this story has given me quite the bit of insight into how, theoretically speaking, the mind of a solider ruled by tyranny would work.
This was originally going to be a long speech about how but I changed that into a thread topic for ‘Humans aren’t Bastards’ because it was too long.
I’m quite intrigued on where exactly this story will lead, or rather how it will get there as the rough ending seems a little predictable though I hope you will surprise me.
Either way, thank you for the great story and insight Starman, your awesome.
Lets be honest here Pincer the only reasons why your queen beat my princess is that Celestia was overconfident and Chrysalis cheated. Remember Celestia had to make Chrysalis work for her victory.
2435599
She still lost though, and not only that, the Changelings managed to over power the Mane 6. If it wasn't for Shining Armor and Cadance, the Changelings would've won.
2435676
True, but Chrysalis only overpower Celestia but feeding off the love between Shining and Cadence, hence she cheated.
2435687
But she still lost, even if Chrysalis cheated.
2435599 I would compare it like this:
Let's say that both Celestia and Chrysalis are Devourer Tanks, okay?
Shining Armor is a Tiberium field and his love for Cadence is Tiberium Crystals, am I going too fast?
The Chrysalis Devourer Tank has absorbed Tiberium from the Shining Armor Tiberium Field.
This means that Chrysalis has increased firepower for the next couple of attacks.
When the Celestia and Chrysalis Devourer Tanks meet in a 1v1, Chrysalis will win simply because she has absorbed Tiberium to increase her firepower.
Did you catch that?
Devourer Tank
2435701
I acknowledge that Chrysalis won the fight, but if she wasn't feeding off the love then she would have lost. Remember the fight, Celestia made Chrysalis work for that victory even with the added power from Shining Armor.
2435717
Err... no
2435724 Why not? I think it was a pretty good comparison...
2435730
Because I have no idea what you are talking about
2435724
And again, Celestia still lost.
The thing is, had Chrysalis not have acted so OOC, she would've managed to taken over, and if it wasn't for Cadance and Shining Armor's spell, they still would've won.
2435735
I'm not arguing with you on that, I know she lost
2435733 Then use the all-knowing internet to find out.
You can find all the information on this wiki.
Search it for "Devourer Tank" and "Tiberium".
Interested but can't help but feel things have changed a bit too quickly.
he's a;ready experienced a good amount of kindness and compassion from the ponies, why does Twilight suddenly change this?
2436274 she wasn't a soldier, she wasn't a doctor either. she was a just a civilian.
2435735
wat
She's in one episode. That one episode defines her character. She can't logically be Out Of Character.
She was just written like a Disney character.
2437079
OOC while posing as Cadance.
Probably should've clarified that in my original post.
2435687
"Cheating"? Are you serious? Honestly; I'm asking honestly, because the Changeling invasion of Canterlot was an act of war. You have to have heard the saying "all's fair in love and war"... Right? Right? You had to have. "Cheating"... psh! Judging by your user name, I'm guessing you just don't like that Celestia lost when that was the (so far) only time she actually did/tried to do something on screen in the show.
2437348
Perhaps cheating is not the right word to use but I cannot think of any other to use. I accept that Celestia lost the fight, I may not like it but I accept it, yes by my name I am Celestia's Paladin and I am her sword and shield, and at least Celestia did do something unlike Luna who wasn't even there. Unlike the other fights which from the get go needed the EoH, this was one that they weren't required.
2437392
Can't think of any other word(s) to use? How about... "using her species' natural abilities to her advantage"? Actually, now that I brought that up, it makes me think of how AJ complained about Dash using her flying abilities when AJ can't "turn off" her natural Earth pony strength and endurance. Also, I don't see you complaining about Celestia using her natural hax-strong Alicorn magic in defending her city and nation, which, as such is her natural power, is the same thing...
2437482 2437392
I must agree with Zephyrus Scary in this discussion.
Celestia send mane 6 to face gods ( most of time they not even have elements in the start, giving enemies many chances to strike them down, it is miracle they did not ), as result mane 6 can not just easy with by using force, they need to work as team, use tactic, do they best to defeat foe who is far powerful, Celestia make mane 6 face HUGE challenges and she never help.
But Celestia again Chrysalis in her arrogance used pure raw force, she did not even bothered to do what she try to teach mane 6, Chrysalis maybe gained advantage by stealing love, but to be honest, it is Chrysalis power source, just like Sun is Celestia power source ( theoretically ), Celestia expect others to succeed in big challenges when she with all her experience can not even succeed in small one.
Celestia fighting stronger foe could:
1) DODGE ( Team for star reference ).
2) Use all kind of spells she learned over 2000 years, dark smells, fire spells, teleportation, illusion, you name it, anything what would give her advantage again stronger enemy.
3) She could just use her wings and fly around her enemy evading attack, Chrysalis was forced to stay on the ground when fight started and Celestia was in air, she could just use it for her advantage and attack air-bone.
4) She could teleport herself with Chrysalis outside of throne room so that no pony would get hurt in this duel, and so Celestia would not need to hold back from using her full power.
From my point of view Celestia is sitting to much on her throne and do paper work, while she waste her powers ( the only training she have was rising moon and sun, it may keep her power on high level, but not skills ), if Celestia would go on adventure from time to time or practice with guards to stay in good shape or work alongside mane 6, she would stay in good condition, instead Celestia is so focused on training mane 6 that she failed to train herself, and 1000 years of peace made her soft.
The issue I have with Celestia is that she focus so much on mane 6, making them do Dirty work ( after Cadance and Shinning Armor saved Equestria, she made them do dirty work as well in Crystal Empire ), but she never bother to help, to train team work, if Celestia do not practice to fight alongside her subjects, she can not protect them, focusing to train mane 6 while not training herself is Celestia biggest flaw, and I can say the same about Luna, I am more then sure that Luna want to redeem herself, it would make a really good episode if Luna would team up with mane 6 to face threat and as result do something to repay for what she did when she was Nightmare Moon ( not punishment, but redemption ), instead she end up as another useless plot device, Cadance is weakest from 3 Alicorn princesses and yet she did far more then Luna and Celestia together.
PS: I agree that no wing no magic rule is unfair, because in all ground related sports Earth Ponies have huge advantage ( and if not, it just make Earth Ponies to useless ), why not make a sport like magic vs strength or wing spell for Earth Ponies in flying competition, I would like to see do Big Mac would have any chance to break Shining Armor shield, or do Applejack would beat Twilight in strength vs magic duel, considering that Big Mac with love potion buff managed to haul entire house, but Twilight without any buff managed to levitate a giant bear who is even bigger and more heavy then house ( lifting is harder then hauling ), so maybe a sport where Unicorn use telekinesis to push Earth Pony or weight into Earth Pony direction where Earth Pony try to push it with muscles, I am sure that Twilight vs Big Mac in telekinesis vs muscle would be interesting duel ( with Twilight as the winner ).
2437135
But even then, Chrysalis only failed because she let the M6 escape and use the LOVE BEAM (tm), not because she did a poor job of impersonating.
2436993 I don't follow your argument, could you clarify what you mean? I'm a bit thick at times.
2435724
I think what he tryed to say is that love is fuel for changelings when sun is fuel for Celestia, considering that Chrysalis managed to gather love what overpowered Celestia and her sun power, it is not considered cheating, after all Celestia would win this duel easy if she used tactic and skills over raw power, or if Celestia was smart enough to teleport Chrysalis and herself out of throne room so she would use full power without worry to hurt her little ponies.
Do not get me wrong, Celestia is powerful, I know that, but as ruler she do paper work, waste her power, never participate directly in any adventure or help mane 6, this kind of live style make her soft, without any training Celestia can not utilize her power well ( it is not who is stronger, but who use power better ), if Celestia would practice her skills or go into adventure from time to time, she would beat Chrysalis with easy, not with raw power, but with tactic and skills, and that is why I am so annoyed by Celestia and Luna, they both make mane 6 do all dirty work, face huge challenges while they themselves can not face small ones, Celestia and Luna should really train team work, they may not be element bearers but they are still powerful, and learning how to work alongside element bearers and protect them ( team work, fight alongside subjects, stay in good condition ) would be more beneficial then to take a gamble by risking mane 6 lives just to teach them something.
Long story short, if Celestia would be less focused on teaching and training mane 6 and more focused on staying in good shape so she can protect her subjects, she would beat Chrysalis without even trying ( same for Luna ).
2437983
I will grant you all that. The show is not about the sisters its about the Mane 6. As you point out she does paper, meaning she is governing her nation. Would I like to see Celestia kick some ass in canon, yes. Will it happen? Probably not.
2438015
And this is something what both you and I find disappointing.
But what annoy me more is that many fanfics follow this road what show take, I mean fanfics are made by fans, so I would expect that Luna and Celestia would be portrayed more fairly, and yet just like in the show, Celestia and Luna are useless and never help just so mane 6 can shine ( or used as plot devices ).
As much as I understand why it happen in the show, I do not get it why in so many fanfics it repeat itself ( even in Luna - Twilight story, Twilight as Unicorn still do far more and save the day while Alicorn of the night ends up helpless, unless it is Twilight vs Luna, then Luna beat Twilight with easy, but when villain arrive, all of the sudden powerful Alicorn turn into useless plot device or princess who need to be rescued ).
2438067
There are fics that follow that road, granted you have to go looking for them but they are there. As the Admin of the Protect Celestia group I've got a good handle on that... yeah there aren't many fics that are adventure tagged that are Celestia centric.
At least if the Princesses can't help give them a reason beyond that they're trolls or something stupid like that.
2438104
Well, I personally like when in story what even if focus on Twilight or mane 6, make everyone around them balanced ( for example, guards do not act incompetent or stupid just so mane 6 look better, princesses make logical decisions and are not afraid to USE they powers to assist mane 6 or protect Equestria ).
If you know any good story about mane 6 where Celestia and Luna do not act like in the show, but actually help mane 6 or are not useless when they powers are need ( and mane 6 do not need to do all dirty work alone like, Celestia: go to chrysalis and defeat her and her army, while I will sit on my throne with armies of guards who will not help you while I will blindly hope that you wont die in this unfair mission what would be more fair if I or Luna or some of my soldiers would assist you ), send me link.
Long story short, if you know any story ( it does not need to be Luna or Celestia as main character ) where mane 6 do not have to do all dirty work and where princesses or guards are not useless plot devices, send me link.
2438145
I'm afraid I cannot think of one off the top of my head, I don't even think my own fic would work. I'm going to give you a link to the group I Admin, there is a 160+ fic archived there, that are either Celestia centric or her as a supporting role. There should be something there that would interest you. Protect Celestia
Eh kinda predictable. Twi will show him how kind and awesome ponies are and he will negotiate peace. She is really naive to think the Guard would not want to massacre them. What does she think they want the info for? To eat bisquits?
2437921
The thing is though, if she acted in character as Cadance, it wouldn't have attracted Twilight's attention, and even then when Twilight apologized, Chyrsalis derped and sent Twilight to where the real Cadance was.
That's a pretty big screw up when she could've accepted the apology and go on with the plan.
2438617
That's not why she failed though. Even when Twilight and real Cadance crashed the wedding, the Changelings still defeated Canterlot, the princesses, and the M6.
It wasn't until after she captured them that she allowed them to escape thorugh negligence.
2438305
The canon ponies, most of them I'm sure are not vengeance craved creatures, the guards included I'm sure .
Sure, you might have ponies that would want to do just that, but I myself imagine that they'd probably be in the minority.
2438645
Yes, but the thing there is that if she went along and accepted Twilight's apology and had her around instead of sending her to the caves, she couldn't have rescued the real Cadance who then couldn't use The Power of Love (tm) to send them packing.
2438646 Probably, still would be pretty naive of him to put his hive at risk because Twilight is nice to him. And she would be naive to think someone would sell his own people.
If she was captured, would she tell them everything about Celestia, the elements, etc, in exchange for food?
2438687
Giving the MAJOR difference between the attitude of the species, no.
As for the other thing, if that occurred, I could imagine Twilight, and then Celestia would have their heads.
Not only that, but there'd have to be a decent threat to the hive, and I doubt a few angry ponies would be that threat.
2434823 And now we don't have roads.
2439243 You're missing the point I was making.
The point was on how when you're trained to resist certain forms of interrogation there are other methods to extract the information from you. Give a man with nothing everything and he'll give anything to keep living that way.
Give a changeling kindness when all they expect is cruelty and you likewise render him cooperative... to an extent
2439267 I know, I was making a joke and commenting on the poor state of the roads in Northern Ontario. I agree with your thoughts on that.
2437922 he was taught that the soldier ponies and doctors are trained to do nothing but find ways to destroy them. twilight was just a civilian who didn't know how to do what he was taught the normal interrogators were.
2441565 If doctors were trained to destroy him, why did they do nothing but help him? Only one showed any dislike to him and even she was purely minor stuff.
2441792 not destroy him, but find ways to.