The front room of Cookie’s cottage was dim as she entered that night, and Celestia noted there was no tea cup, book, or newspaper near where Cookie sat, no sign that he’d been focused on anything but his own mind. As she walked in, he focused on her, and in the firelight his face seemed to show more years than normal; nothing close to their true age, but there was something venerable and hardened there that gave her pause.
She took a breath and offered a hint of a smile. “You seem calmer than I expected.”
Cookie nodded and glanced at the fire. “I’ve had some time to think.”
“Well then, why don’t we have some tea and discuss the matter?” Celestia walked across the room towards the kitchen.
“I haven’t had that much time, Celestia.” His voice was firm and dark, and she stopped at the door to the next room.
She raised her head and said gently, “Well, I feel I need some tea anyway. I’ll put on the kettle.”
Stepping into the kitchen, she turned on the lights. The brightness seemed normal. The kitchen seemed normal, clean and scrubbed, waiting for Cookie to go to work on something. She allowed herself a moment to breathe.
Her magic took up the tea kettle and filled it at the sink. Her eyes drifted towards the pantry, and she wondered if Cookie had made anything recently and if it would be right to help herself if he had. Any other day she wouldn’t have hesitated, but given the nature of this visit—and the way he had looked out there—she thought better of it.
She floated the kettle to the stove and turned back to the door to the living room, squaring her shoulders and fixing her face with a relaxed but somber expression.
The room seemed even darker compared to the light of the kitchen. She took a seat on a cushion across from Cookie with her back to the fire. “Now. I understand you had a visit from Discord today. Are you alright?”
“Surprisingly, yes. Discord turned out to be the least of my concerns.” Cookie regarded her with an even expression. “When you had your conversation with him, where he discovered my existence… he said you sent for him.”
“Yes.” Celestia drew a breath. “Cookie, I can explain.”
“Please.” He nodded and leaned back with the same stony face.
Celestia looked him in the eye and said with her head held high, “It was my hope that if you allowed Cadance to discover your secret, we might he able to secure Equestria further by making sure he always has the pony he’s closest to. I never mentioned it because I know how you feel about him, and I didn’t want that to influence your decision.”
Cookie leaned forward, frowning. “You do know how I feel. And you knew I wouldn’t be remotely agreeable to this.”
“It was not something that needed to be determined now.” Celestia held eye contact and went on in a steady voice, “I was merely exploring if it might be possible. By the time it became an issue, you may well have decided to find the truth of your power of your own accord.”
“Of my own accord, without the bother of inconvenient information that might influence me against it.” Cookie raised his eyebrows.
She shot him a flat look. “Because that information was not fact, or even a plan. It was only barely a possibility.”
“Yet one which you took action to consider, and purposely kept from me.”
“I study many possibilities every day.” Celestia gave a weary sigh. “You know that I’m responsible for an impossibly large task in preserving and protecting Equestria, and I must have my eyes farther ahead than most ponies.”
“I know that, Celestia.” Cookie’s frown wavered, tinged with sympathy. He looked down and shook his head, then he gave a snort and went on firmly. “So in the present, your plan was to use your dear students to manipulate me into changing my mind on a matter I had already decided.”
Celestia shifted on her cushion, wrapping her tail around her. “That wasn’t why I wanted you to meet them. But I did want you to have all of the information as you made your decision.”
“Except that which you decided might influence me against your wishes.”
“It was not speculation that you’d meet Cadance and Twilight, eventually. That was relevant to the issue at hoof.”
“Very well.” Cookie nodded and fixed her with a stare. “And your personal and inconsequential consideration was that, if I were to change my mind, you might manipulate a love affair between two beings and use the fruits of my decision to secure Equestria.”
Celestia shifted again, but shook her head firmly. “Not manipulate, but perhaps encourage a romance, if the seeds were present.”
Cookie leaned back, relaxing with a disapproving expression that seemed exaggerated by the uneven light of the fire. “Encourage a mare who’s nearly two thousand years your junior and sees you as a deity and her sovereign. There’s certainly no reason to worry about undue pressure there.”
She gave a shrug. “I can’t control those things. I can only help ponies from my current position.”
“And what of the mare in question?” Cookie raised his eyebrows. “Would she be allowed to know before finding herself immortally bound to Discord, or would that be merely speculation that might influence her?”
“We would have to see.”
“Of course.” He nodded. “Like we had to see if you would mention the subject of immortality to Twilight, yet somehow Star Swirl’s work ended up in her hooves before you felt that conversation was relevant.”
Celestia frowned sharply. “She was thrilled. It wouldn’t have mattered, and might have set back her progress if she became impatient or conceited.”
Cookie just met her expression with a casual nod. “Or set back your plans if she had doubts.”
She glared at him. “Do you think I didn’t have Twilight’s best interests at heart?”
“No. I know you did. Just as you have Fluttershy’s and my own at heart.” He pursed his lips and leaned forward. “Yet you are not Twilight, or Fluttershy, or me. And you don’t have only our best interests at heart. This is perfectly understandable, you have a duty to protect Equestria, but for these reasons ponies should be allowed a fair say in their own blasted lives!”
Celestia opened her mouth, knowing as she did that what was about to come out was ill-advised, with just a split second to make the decision whether to let slip.
The whistle of the tea kettle decided it for her, and she closed her mouth and got to her hooves without a word. She turned and swept into the kitchen, where the bright light and strange calm caught her off guard. She was in Cookie’s home, warm and safe from the eyes of ponies.
The kettle on the stove demanded her attention, so she removed it with her magic and prepared the teapot as she took several deep breaths to calm herself. The anger she felt wouldn’t help matters, and harsh words would only make things worse. Cookie could be calmed and reasoned with.
She walked over to the pantry, and her magic took up two cups as she spotted a plate of pumpkin bread, already sliced. She glanced back at the door to make sure Cookie didn’t follow her as she took a slice and stuffed it into her mouth.
The sweet, thick taste gave her strength, and stolen comfort was still comfort after all. But she finished quickly and wiped the crumbs from her muzzle, then put together the tea tray with two cups, in case Cookie had changed his mind.
Walking back into the dim room with the tray in her magic, she floated it to the table. She sat back on her cushion and nodded to it, filling her own cup. Cookie just shook his head, his eyes narrowed.
Celestia took a sip of her tea and said calmly, “Now, you know I want my ponies, all of you, to do as you please. I have never forced an innocent pony to do anything they didn’t like.”
Cookie rolled his eyes. “You know exactly what I’m talking about here. I am not accusing you of being a despot and ruling by force, with no concern for the free will of your subjects. I am accusing you of manipulating matters so your subjects do what you wish of their own free will, entirely oblivious to your hoofprints all over their actions. Do you deny that?”
She frowned. “There have been times when I’ve done as you say, but never for my own benefit.”
“I don’t care who the beneficiary might be, to act this way towards sensible adult ponies shows an astonishing lack of respect!” Cookie gestured with a hoof.
Celestia sighed and shook her head. “Should I not work for the best outcome I can see?” She looked at him and raised her eyebrows. “Should I sit back while your indecision leads to Shining Armor’s death and pain for Twilight and Cadance, while Fluttershy’s death leads to pain for Discord and Equestria?”
“You should trust me to see those dangers and make that decision.” He met her eyes with a flat stare. “Do you think that I’m a sadist, with some desire to spread death and misery? Or an idiot who can’t see where my choices lead?”
“Of course not,” she said firmly then took a sip of tea. “But you balance many concerns, and I know that some are not as worthy as you think them.”
“Who are you, to decide how my concerns should be weighed?” Cookie crossed his forelegs. “I mean it, Celestia. Who in blessed Tartarus do you think you are? I’m your equal in years, I’ve had centuries of experience in government, and many more centuries interacting with ponies. I’ve watched a nation crumble, and laid the foundation for a greater one. I watched what that monster did to ponies, I held you as you cried for your sister…”
As he trailed off, their eyes remained locked. Celestia felt a blush on her cheeks and the urge to look down, and she fought it the only way she knew: by drawing up her shoulders and all her strength.
Cookie’s eyes narrowed. “I can think of only one thing that might make you think that you know better than I how to balance these concerns. And I swear by the stars, if you say it, I’m going to march to Canterlot and rip that charter to shreds with my own two hooves!”
Before she could think, the words shot from her lips, “I beg your pardon, Smart Cookie, I hadn’t realized that you were so wise as to always make the correct decisions, knowing perfectly how benefits and drawbacks ought to be weighed.” She glared at him, setting her teacup on the table with a loud clink. “Silly me, I thought that from time to time you may be mistaken! But if this is not the case, I think we can both agree that it’s you who should wear the crown of Equestria!”
“I am mistaken often, and so are you,” Cookie said crisply. “I had thought that we might counsel one another honestly, and share our wisdom, rather than assuring our faults are mirrored in the other and crafting all foolishness in our own image!”
Celestia snorted, glancing away. “That would be well and good, but there are some subjects on which you will not see reason.”
“And this has never been the case for you? Because I seem to recall a time when you had a blind spot approximately the size of the moon.”
Her face snapped towards him with a wide-eyed stare, the fierce blush rising to her cheeks no longer one she could fight back, if she had even thought to. She looked at him for a moment and then narrowed her eyes and said through gritted teeth, “And look how that turned out.”
Cookie leaned back and shrugged. “So what should I have done? Gone behind your back and had the council strip Luna of her crown? Devised situations to bring you and Luna together in animosity, to lessen your affection? Built an army myself and staged a coup?” He shook his head at the thought and went on with an obnoxious calm. “You would have hated me for any of these, and you would have been right to, even as it might have spared you the pain of facing the consequences. You know that I love you, and to feel that I had lost respect for your reason and trust in your feelings would have come as a slap in the face.”
“Perhaps I would have.” Celestia frowned darkly. “And yet… had I not had the Elements of Harmony at hoof, or the strength to act, Equestria might have fallen. I might have hated you, but equally you might have spared our dream.”
His face softened along with his voice. “You would never have known that, neither of us would have, nor that you would have been able to act quickly to save it. And we have no way of knowing what was avoided by my faith in you. The only thing known at the time was that one path bound us tighter in trust, that we would have each other, come what may, and the other was a severing of that. Given the choice, without clear evidence of folly, I chose to trust in you.”
He looked at her earnestly, and she felt her anger draining, replaced by doubt.
She cast her eyes down and answered, matching his calm. “But this is exactly why I spoke to Discord, to gather evidence, to try to see the path we might be treading. And you fault me for this.”
“I fault you for never presenting me with the evidence you gathered, or even the fear that led you to gather it in the first place. You’ve been clear about why you kept it from me, but this displays a lack of trust that hurts me deeply.” He paused and looked down, something seeming to drain from him. “And, more worrying… I don’t feel I can trust you.”
“You can trust me to do what I feel is best for Equestria and the ponies I love,” she said quickly. “I will always work tirelessly for that.”
Cookie didn’t look up, and Celestia watched him closely. The same warm, shifting firelight that hardened his features head on made him seem softer and younger from this angle.
She shifted on her pillow and felt her feathers rising. He had to believe her. She had protected their dream for two thousand years. That was all this was about; she had done what was best for Equestria.
“What you feel is best,” he said slowly as his head rose to face her. He wasn’t angry, but as serious as she had ever seen him. “Not what they feel is best, not to care for them in the manner they wish. You act in all things as a princess.”
Celestia swallowed and drew herself up. “I am a princess.”
He nodded. “Whether I want one or not.”
“If you want me, you want a princess,” she said softly, shifting again on her pillow.
“Is that so?” Cookie tilted his head, regarding her with curiosity. “I want a passionate, intelligent mare who shares my dream. I want a pony who might challenge my assumptions, and who relishes having hers challenged in turn. I want a pony who remembers the past, who remembers Everfree and the vast, unexplored world around it, and lives in the present it’s become, and will stand with me and face the future. I want a pony I can warm and comfort with my baking, who can warm and comfort me with her smile and wing and the feeling of her mane around me.”
Celestia offered a smile.
Cookie met it with a flat expression and raised eyebrows. “I do not want castles or crowns or displays of power. I do not want a pony whose reason and wishes and ideas about what’s best for me come before my own. I do not want a pony who believes that all decisions, all responsibilities, all magic and the lives of her subjects belong in her hooves, alone, without accountability or question beyond her own conscience.” He paused and shook his head. “Indeed, I always thought it was my place to remind you that you are not that pony in your heart. That it is a cage you step into of your own accord, and to offer a way to leave when you wished.”
Celestia’s smile turned weary, holding all of the affection and gratitude she felt towards him, but the weight he could never understand as well.
“You do, Cookie. And I need that more than I can say, and I love you for it. But…” She rubbed a hoof over her eyes. “It’s never been as simple as you make it seem. To be a princess, I must love Equestria and my ponies with all of my heart, I must be willing to do anything for them, to be all that they need. Where is the line I should draw, that I would sacrifice anything except your trust? If I look at something that may bring harm to my ponies, and I fail to act because my trust was in you…”
“If you must think that way, you must assume no pony is your equal and worthy of trust,” he said softly. “And in that case, how can you ever love?”
Celestia stared at him. “I love you. You know this.”
He nodded then met her eyes. “I always thought so. But I thought you trusted me, that you respected me.”
“I do! I trust you further than any other pony. But there is a line, and we have met it in this.”
Cookie frowned, his eyes locked on hers. “There is a line for you, between beloved and subject. There has been none for me. In all matters, I have assumed you to be Celestia. I have trusted you far more than I would trust any other ruler, not because you are the perfect alicorn who raises the sun, but because you are a kind, strong, honorable pony who will seriously consider the rightness of her actions…”
She looked him in the eye and gave a confused nod. “I hope that I am.”
He drew a deep breath. “To that end, I offer you a choice, Celestia. This is your final chance to consider your actions, to consider whether they are right, and to consider all potential consequences.” He went on deliberately, pointed looks emphasizing his words, “If you tell me you have been mistaken, that you needed council to recognize your errors, but that you hope to be more careful in the future, then we continue as always with but one exception: you shall never know the nature of my magic. If I do decide to investigate, for the benefit of Twilight or Cadance or Equestria, or for my own curiosity, I shall take steps to ensure you will never be told.”
She narrowed her eyes. “And if I’m sure in my actions?”
“Then we have indeed met a line,” Cookie said plainly.
Celestia swallowed, her eyes still in a glare. She didn’t answer ultimatums, it was her instinct not to bow. Yet the uneasy feeling that had been plaguing her all night and the steady look in Cookie eyes gave her pause. But when she spoke, it was firm and even.
“If your magic comes from my love, it’s right that I should know as much as you do.”
Cookie raised his eyebrows. “Normally, I would agree completely. But right now I require an assurance to earn my trust.”
“To earn your trust?” Celestia drew herself up. “For two thousand years—”
“I have trusted you, even in light of treatment of other ponies that should have called that into question.” Cookie pursed his lips. “Now you’ve broken my trust and it must be rebuilt. As much as you have opinions on the outcome of the situation, I can easily take them into account and even pursue those outcomes without your involvement.”
Celestia relaxed and rolled her eyes. “But you won’t.”
Cookie shrugged. “Perhaps not. That is no longer your concern.”
“The wellbeing of my close friends, my kingdom, and my love is no longer my concern?” She raised an eyebrow.
“No. It’s mine,” he said plainly. “And you will have to trust me.”
Celestia sighed, shaking her head. “You’re terrified of Discord, you refuse to meet Shining Armor, you know nothing of magic, you let ethical ideals override practicality, and you become lost in your considerations. And you want me to leave the things I care for most in the world in your hooves.”
Cookie leaned back with a frown. “I had no idea you thought so poorly of me. But it doesn’t matter, because if you will not agree to trust me willingly, I will ensure you never know anyway. The only thing at stake is my esteem, which doesn’t appear to be worth much to you.”
She tilted her head up. “If you wish to play this game, remember who you play with. I can order it investigated.”
“You can order no such thing.” Cookie narrowed his eyes. “I’d advise you to remember who you play with. It turns out that the charter that outlines your powers was written by a pony very much concerned with this sort of thing, who didn’t trust you much at all at the time. Rightfully so, as it turns out.”
Celestia stared at him in the firelight. He was right; she had forgotten who she was fighting. The pony she loved. The pony who watched her crowned. The pony who first dreamed of Equestria. She wondered, at him and at herself, how they could say such things over such a trivial matter.
Her face softened, and she said gently, “Cookie, this is becoming ridiculous.”
He looked down. “I’m pleased to see that you still wouldn’t breach the charter.”
“I shouldn’t need to do any of this!” She gestured with a hoof and looked to him, pleading. “There is a power that might ensure love and companionship for my students, that might ensure a happy and peaceful way of securing Equestria… and you, who are supposed to love me more than any in this world, dangle it just out of my reach.”
“Not all power is yours to command,” he said with a pained expression. “I don’t intend to taunt you, but in this case, I can’t trust you. I already knew you didn’t share my concerns, and you’ve made it clear that you’re more than happy to disregard them.”
She sighed. “For the safety of Equestria.”
“Do you think I don’t care about Equestria?!” he shouted, rising suddenly to his hooves. “That this is not among my concerns? Equestria is the dream we share, it’s the legacy of my friends, it’s the only blasted thing in my life that’s worked as I intended! But… therein lies our disagreement. I never intended Equestria to be a place where ponies live safe from all fear, their lives controlled by a powerful leader, however benevolent.”
“I have no wish to control my subjects lives! I can barely keep the monsters that would destroy them at bay.”
He began to pace through the shadowy room. “You would control mine in this respect. And Fluttershy’s. And if you would do this to us, the only thing stopping you from controlling the lives of any of your subjects is a lack of reason for the time being.”
Celestia followed him with her eyes, and he paused for only a moment before he went on in both speech and movement.
“Celestia, if you judge Discord a threat, now or in the future, you must deal with him using the powers granted to you by the charter. A pony’s magic, or their heart, are unequivocally not among those.”
“Yet nothing in the charter limits me in ways I have acted,” she pointed out calmly. “Perhaps they are not to your liking, but I am charged as princess with doing all in my power to defend Equestria, and if that requires that I not reveal my plans to ponies who would thwart them, or encourage ponies in directions to the country’s benefit, it is not only my desire to do so, it is my duty.”
Cookie stopped in the light of the fire, in front of where he had been sitting. He closed his eyes and stood for several long moments, still and quiet. Celestia shifted on her cushion and ruffled her wings, wishing he’d say something, hoping he’d see the sense in what she said.
When he did turn to her and open his eyes there was a coldness in them. His face rested in a dark line that sent a shiver up her spine.
Pulling himself up to his full height, he regarded her with a nod. “So we come to a line, Princess Celestia.”
Celestia blinked, and the uneasy feeling she had been fighting all night tightened around her. Her heart pounded in her chest as she whispered, “Cookie.”
He began to pace again. “On one side is the trust and understanding one would give a beloved, and on the other is a princess above all other ponies, with a duty to break trust to defend Equestria.” He glanced over at her. “You have made your choice, why should I not acknowledge your position, Your Majesty?”
She rose to her hooves then instantly tried to shrink back, to make herself smaller. “Don’t call me that. Stop this at once.”
He took a few steps towards her. “Stop showing my respect to our wise and benevolent princess? Perhaps I shall offer blessings instead.” He frowned. “May you have all the power in Equestria. May the lives of ponies bend to your will… of their own accord, of course. And may the weight of this fall on your shoulders, alone.”
“No. Please.” She shook her head, hoping to snap out of what had to be an awful dream.
Cookie just raised his eyebrows. “This is what you need, isn’t it? For Equestria, for our dream? It is your duty.”
“You know that’s not true.” She swallowed. “I need you, Cookie. Please. I need your love, and your council, and your baking. I need your home. I—I can’t—”
“I am yours to command, Princess Celestia.” He bowed deeply. “Command me to advise you, to bake for you. Command me to love you, to comfort you. Command me to live or die. Do with me what you will.”
“What would you have me say?” she whispered.
He looked up without rising. “Who am I to tell you, Your Majesty? I have no title, I have no position, I haven’t even got a name of my own anymore. I am nothing but an earth pony who’s borrowed enough magic over the years to remain alive an unfortunately long time.”
Celestia’s mouth worked a few times in silence before she found the words. “You will die.”
“Perhaps I will,” he said as he straightened himself.
“This is madness, to throw your life away because of a plan I’ve only considered, which you advise against.” She took a step to bridge the distance between them. “Please, we can talk about this.”
“I don’t advise against it!” He stepped back suddenly, eyes narrowed. “I am telling you that it is wrong! Even if it never comes to pass, I know now what you think of me and your other subjects, that we’re pieces on your board to be moved as you see fit.” He turned and walked to the door of the cottage. “Now, Your Majesty, I ask you to grant me my leave.”
Celestia stared at him a moment before speaking. “You live here. Where are you going?”
“To Tartarus!” he snapped as he opened the door. “One of us ought to, and it certainly wouldn’t do to order a princess.”
“Cookie—” she whispered, as the door slammed closed behind him.
She stared at it, in shock, frozen in place. As long as she didn’t move, perhaps it hadn’t happened. As long as she didn’t move, it could be undone. If she moved she might feel anger, or fear, or pain… too much pain to think of. For a long time the only movement in the room was the gauzy rainbow halo of her mane, and the fire crackling to warm a suddenly empty house.
As reality sunk in, and feeling returned, tears stung her eyes. Shaking her head to fight them back, she considered going after him. She wanted to so badly that her heart ached. This was wrong, he hadn’t left her, not truly. That was impossible.
But the words seemed to echo in the empty room, like the slamming of the door. Princess Celestia. That was impossible as well. She could fly after him, she could catch him easily, but what could she do to make him unspeak those words and to undo the damage that caused them?
Did she even want to, really? How could he have done this to her, caused her this pain? All she had done was look into a way to protect the country that she was sworn, as princess, to defend. He heard her give her oath, he knew for two millennia how she had worked and sacrificed to uphold it. How could he be so selfish, to cast their love aside over this nonsense?
She glared at the door through her tears.
Then her face fell. Their love wasn’t all he was casting aside.
Her horn lit, teleporting her outside where she took off into the night sky faster than she had ever flown in her life. She was hurt and she was furious and she was terrified, and for all of those reasons she needed to speak with Cadance immediately.
Ooh, that's a helluva cliffhanger. >w< Am glad to see it's not all ice cream and puppies between them, though I am curious where this will go. No sad tag, so that's reassuring. :3
Man, this is one of the best explanations I've seen about why it's really really difficult to ship Celestia with anypony. Here we have the omnibenevolent chessmaster forced into a mom-like "you don't understand what's best" corner and not treating her paramour as an equal partner. Shipping Celly is hard.
I think maybe the exception might be Discord/Celestia. I realize the match has its problems, but Big D may be one of the few beings capable of just plain not caring if Celestia values Equestria above their relationship.
I'm very interested to see what Cady has to say. Hopefully she at least recognizes that it gets messy when you blur mom-type love and partner-type love.
Oh, this is indeed a can of worms, and I don't mean the relationship issues. I've been terribly unfair to Celestia. Equestria's government is broken. I'd been assuming she's been manipulating ponies because she wants to, not because she has to.
I hate, hate, hate this version of Celestia. The "mommy knows best" manipulative bitch, rather than the "look, I'm the Princess, it's my job, I'm making the call" ruler. But in this Equestria, it isn't even her fault:
Smart Cookie? Listen up, you little shit. You can't give a pony (or person!) the responsibility, accountability, and duty to carry out a task without giving them the authority to do so! It's crazy-making, and it leads to piss-poor results for whatever that task was. We've got an Equestria that comes under supernatural attack somewhere every week or so, and encounters End-of-the-World grade threats on a yearly basis. The mortal side of the government clearly can't find it's ass with all four hooves and a magic mirror. Now we learn that the Diarchs don't even have the authority to do much of anything on their own, and must resort to convoluted plans to convince ponies to do what needs to be done.
And now, you're going to bitch at the pony you apparently love, because she's doing her fucking job, and doing it under the restrictions YOU cooked up? Fuck you. Yes, Equestria matters more than you do. Fucking deal with it.
Relevant song is relevant:
Here stands Celestia, Princess of Equestria, "with a duty to break trust to defend Equestria" but no authority to do so. Fuck that noise. Call up Luna, borrow her Night Guard, spin up a "black project", and haul Cookie's ass off to a lab in the Everfree. If anyone bitches about it, tell them they can either put on the crown and do a better job, or shut the hell up.
Warning: long af line-by-line comment ahead.
I'm like 90% sure that beginning a conversation this way is the same thing as admitting that you've already lost the battle.
It's taken thirteen chapters for me to finally get my head around what's probably the single most important theme of this entire story. It's been here the whole time, but only now can I put it into words. Cookie's been saying it the whole time, but this conversation is the first time it's really sinking in, really hitting home for me: the Princesses are just ponies.
It's especially brilliant considering how Celestia is portrayed almost always in MLP fanfic. In anything that's trying to be relatively serious, she's almost always a chessmaster or manipulator of some kind. This is portrayed as natural and unproblematic. And like people manipulate each other constantly in the real world. But at the same time that doesn't make it not morally dubious, especially when someone with power does it to someone without power? When that happens it's actually pretty much the opposite of unproblematic. And Cookie knows that, even if Celestia—and literally everyone reading this fic, because of the context we're all observing it in—has forgotten.
At least, that's how this is for me. It's wild. Basically, Cookie would make an absolutely stellar Element of Honesty.
This feels like symbolism.
...however, despite what I said above, Cookie still gets off far from scot-free in this one.
Like, he wants to pretend that he can somehow completely divorce his All-Powerful Logical Thought Process from his emotions and his personal bias against Discord, except, like, you're a person, dude. You can't do that. Like maybe a little. But no more than a little. And you're clearly super-traumatized by what Discord did to you, so like, why do you think you can even manage a little? Celestia pretty much said "I think you're too close to the Discord problem, and I don't think you can think clearly about it because of how hurt you still feel" and he basically responded with "you insulted MUH LOGICS!!!!"
And then they BOTH let the argument get diverted away from the problem at hand—Celestia's manipulations, which while perhaps not justified certainly not completely trust-shattering—into being about whether or not Celestia's ethics are up to par.
Which isn't to say that I even disagree with Cookie that the ethical considerations of being an immortal more-or-less-god-like ruler aren't of the utmost importance, because they are. But Celestia is clearly speaking hastily here, saying the first words that come to her mind because she doesn't like arguing with Cookie and because she's great at a million things but he's always been better than her at philosophy. (Or, at the very least, he's spent more time on it.) And instead of recognizing any of that, Cookie starts going for the throat.
Like, all of this stuff is just. Out of hand. They let it become a fight, rather than a discussion. Which, maybe my take on how serious Celestia's transgressions are is off by a mile. But even if it is, the second you start saying:
...is the second you should know that st has gone off the rails. Like, period. The ultimatum of ultimatums is never ever do an ultimatum or you're an asshole.
Also, like, who is this nerd that he thinks somebody can just real quick do a complete and rigorous analysis of every possible consequence of a decision? Like, if we're taking it as a given that being a million and three years old doesn't make you somehow better than everybody else, then there's no way you can do that, Cookie, and there's no way she can do it either. Saying something like this isn't an actual attempt to get the other person to realize they've done something wrong, it's just shoving their face in the dirt. So when Celestia gets mad and says st she hasn't thought through, you shouldn't be surprised.
On the other hand, though, this line does make it sound like he isn't just coming at her after this one thing. But STILL,
These are all legitimate criticisms! Like, she says them in anger, which is always a bad idea, but just as Celestia doesn't get to do what she wants because she's princess, Cookie doesn't get to pretend he has some
high horsemagical abilityspecial characteristic that removes his personal considerations from his ability to think.But Celestia did a bad job of wording that criticism earlier in the argument, so on deaf ears it falls. And then she goes for threat of force, which is always an excellent idea and never ever ends badly, ever.
So well executed, BP, how Celestia's thoughts turn from the peace of Cookie's home and the importance of not getting angry to "who she was fighting" without her even realizing it.
Like, these two pieces of dialogue:
...clearly indicate to me that these two are talking straight past each other. It sounds like they're having the same argument but they really aren't. Cookie is focused, as always, on the abstract problem, and Celestia is focused, as always, on the problem in front of her. But like, the way Celestia is thinking is the way most people think. Cookie is the odd one out here, and he should know that by now. He should be willing to recognize that even though Celestia isn't necessarily doing the right thing, she's doing it because she came to the conclusion that it was the right thing to do given the priorities she has. He just keeps assuming that everyone else in the room has had every thought he has and then coming down on them for coming to the 'wrong' conclusion using those thoughts. Except that half the reason anyone keeps him around is that he's the weirdo that thinks too hard about everything, so why the hell is he expecting the other people to think like him.
And then he goes and does this:
because he just HAS to have a flair for the dramatic.
That's really the most humorous part of this whole dumb argument: Cookie is arguing that Celestia should stop treating herself like she's above anyone else, and he's arguing that point in such a way that he tries to pretend she's somehow better at doing arguments with her SO than a normal pony. Like, clearly by the end she's realizing that something went off track, because she would never in her life want to willingly do ANYTHING that would make Cookie call her Princess. But he just keeps pressing, and then he storms out, because that's how well-executed arguments should end.
UGH.
Anyway, sorry for writing this thousand-word pseudoessay about how the horses arguing made me mad. I basically just repeat myself over and over and I'm DEFINITELY NOT PROJECTING AT ALL, but you wrote this argument super super well and I got really into it. Like, this is pretty much exactly my experience of how arguments work. Or, rather, how they don't.
(It gets really fun when you read my analysis of what's going on and start to critique MY critique on how I assume balance of power and intent of the parties involved and responsibility to proper conduct and so on... Good lord.)
Really looking forward to seeing where things go from here. Also beginning to wonder if we're even going to see Luna's banishment or if that's just going to be left untouched seeing as we know what happens. That would actually make for a very interesting development, though it'll be heart-wrenching either way, I'm sure.
And oh, Celestia, what are you going to go tell Cadance...
This was a really intense chapter and certainly a great one, I absolutly love it, you are really the true master of shipping and romance.
8120582
It's a constitutional monarchy where Celestia has executive power and ponies have a right to due process (and protection from warrantless search and seizure, including of magic.)
There are certainly security vs freedom arguments to be made, but if you find this that unbelievable I don't know what to tell you.
8120639
Oh, that in and of itself would be one thing. However, this plus canon events paints a more detailed picture.
Celestia takes on Personal Students because she needs someone who is trustworthy, powerful, competent, and outside the government. Someone who can carry out Celestia's
orderssuggestions in an unofficial manner."Hey, Twilight, can you go evict the dragon who's smoking up the place? By the time I can get anything authorized here, the crops will have failed."
Heck, the official forces she does have available are completely useless. We've seen the Wonderbolts used as a rapid military response force at least twice, against greed-tantrum Spike and against Tirek. They were completely useless.
The entire Guard was on full alert in Canterlot, with prior warning of an expected attack during a pre-planned state function. Despite all the training, drills, knowing the city inside and out, even after watching the changeling army battering the shield, they were completely overwhelmed by the attack. Useless.
Ponyville's on the Everfree border. The old castle is full of dangerous artifacts. Scary monsters run around constantly. Hostile Diamond Dogs enslave anyone who wanders into the territory just outside of town. Surely they have some sort of Guard detachment stationed nearby? Well, there's Secret Agent Sweetie Drops and the local cops, if that counts?
Tartarus is full of dangerous entities. Surely it has exceptional security? Well, there's this guard dog who wanders off sometimes, and nopony even knows about it until he shows up in a town somewhere, and we don't even do a head count afterwards....
Either Celestia's a super-capable chessmaster who simultaneously couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel, or she's so hemmed in by the Charter and the dysfunctional government that she can't get anything done through official channels.
8120707
You have a very different interpretation of canon events than I do.
8120748
Would you care to elaborate? Why does Celestia have to rely on manipulating ponies and throwing Twilight at everything? Why doesn't she handle known threats in a more direct and permanent manner?
Is Celestia willing to defend Equestria, but not able? Then she is not competent (or her hooves are tied).
Is she able, but not willing? Then she is malevolent.
Is she both able and willing? Then whence cometh the monster of the week?
Is she neither able nor willing? Then why call her Princess?
8120796
She's a pony.
She's got royal guards and special forces, she has access to a magic nuke and strong magical allies, and she has her own magic and the power to negotiate treaties as well. She's also tasked with protecting the rights and freedom of ponies outlined in the charter and the vision she has for Equestria (which she and Cookie share in this fic.) She also has personal relationships with her sister and her students (and Cookie here.)
She's an intelligent, powerful, caring pony, but not an omniscient, omnipotent, or dictatorial being. She depends on intelligence from other ponies and on the points of view provided by her experience and her advisors. She has to balance her budget, she has to decide whether a threat warrants guards or Wonderbolts or diplomacy or the Elements of Harmony, and she has to work within the charter as well as previous treaties and diplomatic agreements she has with other nations and groups of beings, not to mention the relationships she has with her allies, both official and personal.
And she has to do it all while providing a stable, comforting presence to her ponies. And raising the sun every day.
It's an impossible job. Cookie pointed that out in the first chapter. And Celestia will kill herself to try to do it, but that doesn't always mean she makes the right decisions, which should have been obvious last chapter.
It's also worth noting that we mostly see things in canon when they've gotten particularly interesting, and usually only when they affect Twilight Sparkle, who Celestia knew had the potential to be a princess herself (and so was training for that eventuality.)
8120796 It'd also be damn difficult even without ethics and other duties holding her back. What military force and governmental plans do you put together to stop the threats to Equestria we've seen thus far? Even low key ones, like greed growth Spike, are going to be difficult to deal with using either the level of magic of most ponies under her control, or the level of technology of the world in general. And the biggest problems are far more impossible to deal with. What generalized army/special forces do you put together to stop someone like Tirek or Discord? Or even changelings, a race of near perfect shape shifters whose capabilities are, in this scenario, more or less unknown?
So, going back to that question. What linear combination of willing and able is Celestia? She is very willing and not always all that able. That doesn't mean she's incompetent. It just means that Equestria is at a high enough danger level that some threats are unstoppable by anything short of weird love or harmony magic of some sort. By design, of course. Celestia's general strategy is a pretty smart one. She has a collection of very powerful weapons and defenses that can plausibly deal with the issues she has to face. The Wonderbolts are probably a reasonable solution to some subset of problems, but not all, and what problems they can't deal with are going to need some of those high power weapons in general.
It's a strategy you can see in this chapter, in fact. Celestia might have had some plan to use Discord/Fluttershy love magic to extend Fluttershy's life, but that's not precisely why she acted this way. She cares a whole lot about this kind of immortality magic because it's yet another crazy powerful weapon she can load into her arsenal in case something goes horribly wrong. Where exactly would this weapon be applicable? She doesn't know yet, any more than she necessarily knew that Twilight would be essential to dealing with Discord. It's an opportunistic strategy, and it's the kind of strategy you really need to maintain safety in this high lethality world. It's just that, sometimes, tossing everyone and everything you see onto a crazy theoretical weapon pile sometimes leads to some ethical and relationship issues.
8120855
There's "not perfect", and then there's Ben Franklin's "He was so learned that he could name a horse in nine languages; so ignorant that he bought a cow to ride on."
We know this story's Celestia isn't like the pop-culture version of Dubya, who could plan 9/11 as a power grab, but was too dumb to be allowed near pretzels unattended. Shrugging off her demonstrated failures of basic common sense despite being an intelligent mare with centuries of experience with "she's not perfect" makes no sense, hence my assumption of some sort of in-universe external handicap on Celestia's abilities.
But hey, Word of God. I retract my previous retraction, and return to "both Celestia and Cookie are being morons, Lunar coup plzkthx."
Basically, Celestia figured out a way to use mouse and keyboard while playing a shooter on console because she's been alive for thousands of years, but Cookie wants her to act like she was born, figuratively, yesterday. On the face of it, Cookie's argument is barley logical, but I'm sympathetic to it considering all the tyrants and villains he has seen go mad with power. Now that her schemes threaten to stretch out into eternity, like he has seen her do with twilight getting her wings, he feels that he has a greater say in making those judgments, or precluding celestia doing the same. So I'm not sure if Cookie is right, but he would be the only pony who could be right, but I don't think he should hold it against celestia if she comes to a different opinion. Although half the argument was the backhooved way she came to that opinion...
8120625 really expressed this amazingly. Make sure to link back to this comment at the end of the fic if anyone has questions.
8120998 What is it that you expect her to do, precisely?
8120955
Magical monsters? Treat the Everfree like North Korea. Don't let anything in or out. Clear the land around the border, put up a fence and/or magical tripwires. Set up border patrols and overflights. Don't let the timberwolves, hydras, ursas, tatzlwurms, etc. roam the countryside. Contain or eliminate them.
Hostile sentients like Smokey the Dragon and the Diamond Dogs? If they have governments, get them involved and/or detain and deport their asses. If not, treat them as domestic criminals or "magical monsters".
Serious threats like Chrysalis, Discord and Tirek, who were defeated before and got loose again? Better security. Don't leave statue!Discord unattended. When you re-stone his ass, don't just let him out again. Research ways to deal with him permanently while he's incapacitated. Keep a closer eye on Tartarus. Maybe do a head-count once in a while, so escapees can't roam Equestria for two years before trying to take over. Kill or imprison defeated hostiles, instead of just shrugging and ignoring them.
Hostile armies like the changelings attacking your capitol, after you've been frigging warned? Have a better plan than "look impressive and hope the shield holds". We know ponies have lethal spells and weapons, so do something other than have a slap-fight. (Looking at you, Sombra alternate timeline.)
Ah yes, all those dangerous magical artifacts available in curio shops, or the decaying castle you left them in, can't possibly be dealt with before they become problems. That changeling queen your niece cunt-punted clear across the continent? Nope, can't do anything about her. Napping dragon? Can't handle that, better use the secret magical technique called "Fluttershy is very disappointed in you". Tirek? Nope, can't keep him from escaping Tartarus in the first place, better find a new and improved Orbital Friendship Cannon. Yep, super competent Princess. Her centuries of experience are obvious to everyone.
8121064
This is exactly what she did, until about 100 years before Luna returned, when she started giving away the land nearby. Which makes some sense because she needed the forest convenient so somepony could be near the EoH.
So she should build a wall? Should she make the monsters pay for it?
It's also worth noting that there is somepony watching the Everfree forest, somepony with freaky magic, who oddly has bottles containing Celestia's memories on hoof.
And, as far as I can remember, the only "escaped from the Everfree" plots we've seen were the Timberwoves back in Granny Smith's childhood, and the vines. I think everything else was ponies going into the Everfree, which they're adequately informed about, or other random monsters that are apparently part of the natural fauna of Equestria (and seem to be of varying degrees of sentience.)
If this is the case across Equestria, five or six run-ins with monsters over six years or so is pretty good for a low population area of the country. It would stand to reason that more resources are focused in areas like Manehattan, Fillydelphia, and Canterlot, where monsters could do a lot more damage. And indeed, Celestia has to miss an appointment in Ponyville to deal with an implied parasprite infestation in Fillydelphia.
When was the last time we saw those Diamond Dogs? That time they interfered with ponies?
And Celestia's solution to the dragon was to send a powerful ally to ask it to leave. Which is what happened. If that hadn't worked, I'd imagine she would have escalated, but why should she have escalated first? That's some crappy diplomacy.
As far as they knew, Discord was safe the first time. The statue weakened when the EoH attached to the mane six, something that had never happened before (the EoH changing hooves.) And reformed Discord has been useful several times, and could be even more useful in the future for dealing with all of these things you think Celestia should be dealing with better. He was released under optimal conditions, with the EoH right there.
Interesting to note that Cerberus was found missing not long after Discord chaosed-up Equestria, and right before the Changeling attack. If this was a show about the government of Equestria, I'd suspect sabotage as a distraction.
Once again, hindsight is 20/20. As far as I remember, they did that after Tirek escaped (and noticed the bugbear missing, and disbanded the special forces Bonbon was part of for their protection) and nothing has escaped from Tartarus since.
And Chrysalis was a foreign national. Celestia could have declared an invasion of the Badlands, but sending military ventures to a desert to try to track down one terrorist threat and potentially destabilize a region isn't always the best use of resources. It's a gamble, but if you can't think of at least a few good arguments against it, you haven't watched the news in your lifetime.
They had a warning of some sort. They didn't seem to know the problem was changelings, which would imply there were a lot of questions about if there even was an attack coming. Threat level was red; guards were stationed, the Elements of Harmony and the bearers were on hand, and a shield was cast. That seems like a pretty good security situation for an unknown threat.
We can do this all day. It's just a matter of headcanon. You can make yours as stingy or generous towards Celestia as you want.
Painfully well done. 8120625 nailed the analysis far better than I ever could. Definitely looking forward to Cadence's counsel. As for Cookie, I find myself hoping that Luna and/or Twilight take him to task. He wants logical debate? Fine. Let's sic the intellectual sister and the Princess of Books on him. I have a feeling that ponies who aren't as enotionally close to him may be able to break through that thick skull.
Possibly.
I hope.
Cookie seems to be getting quite some hate in the comments so far. But I think he is kind of right. He's just also reacting poorly and muddying the issue with his political views. But the central thing - that Celestia thinks she's right to manipulate him into doing what she wishes, and thinks she knows better what he should do with his life - is something he has every reason to be angry about. And she doesn't even consider that she may be wrong - very nicely symbolized by the scene where she eats the cake just because she thinks Cookie doesn't notice, despite knowing that this is definitely the wrong moment for this. She's sure that she's right and this is only about making Cookie accept it.
That said, arguing about the philosophical question of manipulation vs free will instead, giving her no time to think and the ultimatum, and storming off like that are not exactly great either.
So they are both wrong. But I guess that's pretty much always the case with relationship problems.
Okay, I admit I got a bit confused here and thought whoa, is Celestia going all Miss Jean Brodie on us?
Then I realized he was talking about Fluttercord, not Twookie.
So the question, as I imagine, that Celestia might put to Fluttershy is: "Would you for the safety of Equestria enter into a lifelong intimate relationship with an unnatural creature stitched together out of mismatched parts?
"Before you answer you should know that this sort of relationship has worked in the past..."
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/20/27/37/2027378ee420d0af66be09898e6e2a90.jpg
"...albeit in a different TV series."
8121540
Never mind how difficult it is to have a high level of security up when the/one of the prime military commanders is quietly being hypnotised by the leader of the invasion.
Shining Armor's ability to keep the shield up even as he was reduced to an empty-minded vegetable is pretty amazing, isn't it? And he didn't even stop casting then, Chrysalis had to have her army ram into the thing over and over before it finally broke. It's a shame Shining Armor hasn't had any more opportunities to show off his skill, because damn, that's actually kind of scary.
8122449
That's exactly what Cookie is doing, honestly. He's convinced he's right, and when he gets tired of arguments, he resorts to emotional blackmail at best or a suicidal tantrum at worst.
8120625
Moreover, one of the instances he introduces to the argument, Nightmare Moon, got solved precisely by Celestia's meddling. Her plan led to having Princess Luna back, reformed, regretting her former actions, and trying to become the kind of princess ponies can look up to.
The whole thing is very problematic. I mean, sure, on the one hand, introducing Cookie to Cadance and Twilight so he'll get a sense of what types the ponies are who are going to suffer the deaths of their loved ones can be seen as a dirty trick. On the other hand, the act of convincing someone of anything is already manipulation.
Also, most of his alternative plans seem to boil down to "just stop being a princess", but what's going on outside his forest suggest Equestria would crumble pretty quickly if Celestia really did that. Without pushing Twilight on that specific path in Ponyville, to meet her future friends, what would've happened with Discord, or Tirek, or Sombra? What was Celestia supposed to do, order them all to become friends and fight? Watch Equestria burn, safe in the kowledge that at least she didn't have to resort to using her insight into how other ponies tick to nudge them into saving everyone? Being the opposition is easy. Providing working solutions is not.
8123572
You seem pretty sure about whose plan that was.
Note that in the first part of the conversation, what really sets Cookie off isn't the plans Celestia had, but that she tends to lead ponies into them without giving them the information to make a choice. For example, he's known what she was doing to him with Cadance and Twilight since chapter 5:
But there she made arguments to him that convinced him to take part. The sticking point is when she started making plans that involve him without mentioning that there was even a problem.
8123891
I'm aware that's what Cookie is angry about. And I understand why. I'm more inclined to agree with his point than not, at least in general.
Nothing suggests it was Cookie's. It doesn't fit what he's angry about now, nor does it fit with how he argued in the past. Celestia ordered Twilight to Ponyville and she didn't forward any information regarding Nightmare Moon or the ponies she intended for Twilight to befriend, all things he openly disdains.
8124076
Yet it involves putting the EoH into the hooves of not just one other pony, but a team of advisors who could (and did at least once) veto their use.
I can't say a lot because we'll be seeing this eventually, but while the ultimate decision and execution were obviously Celestia's, there are other hoofprints on the situation.
It seems that we act according to our natures, and rationalize our acts through our choice of beliefs.
(There's always some mismatch, which explains hypocrisy)
And it also seems that if your nature is that of a spoiled child, ideological absolutism is a great way to rationalize it. You're always angry at not getting all you want, so say that all you want is perfection on Earth. Who could argue with that? You're perfectly willing to share, after all.
And since you'll never get it, you have license to always be angry.
But here's the problem: sometimes--sometimes--ideological absolutists are right. Not from any virtue of character (though virtues may be present), but from having noticed something about the way the universe works, and having figured out a way to bring human behavior into better accord with that.
And sometimes that rightness requires the singleminded, unreasonable, absolutist insistence of a spoiled child in its advocacy.
Of course this very same singleminded, unreasonable, absolutist insistence can work to advance evil as well as good. Humans can be quite wrong in how they think the universe works, and even more wrong about how to bring human nature into accord with it.
What separates the right ideologue from the wrong, a Jefferson from a Robespierre? I would hope it's not merely fate or chance, but...
Nearly they stood who fall.
Themselves, when they look back
see always in the track
One torturing spot where all
By a possible quick swerve
Of will yet unenslaved–
By the infinitesimal twitching of a nerve–
Might have been saved.
Nearly they fell who stand.
These with cold after-fear
Look back and note how near
They grazed the Siren’s land
Wondering to think that fate
By threads so spidery-fine
The choice of ways so small, the event so great
Should thus entwine.
Therefore I sometimes fear
Lest oldest fears prove true
Lest, when no bugle blew
My mort, when skies looked clear
I may have stepped one hair’s
Breadth past the hair-breadth bourn
Which, being once crossed forever unawares
Forbids return.
...as a literary creation, a metaphor--I think Smart Cookie frightens me more than Discord.
8125202
...that's kind of fascinating, since I know what Cookie is ultimately a metaphor for. Not unwarranted, but fascinating.
8125382
After such knowledge, what forgiveness? Think now
History has many cunning passages, contrived corridors
And issues, deceives with whispering ambitions,
Guides us by vanities. Think now
She gives when our attention is distracted
And what she gives, gives with such supple confusions
That the giving famishes the craving. Gives too late
What’s not believed in, or is still believed,
In memory only, reconsidered passion. Gives too soon
Into weak hands, what’s thought can be dispensed with
Till the refusal propagates a fear. Think
Neither fear nor courage saves us. Unnatural vices
Are fathered by our heroism. Virtues
Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
These tears are shaken from the wrath-bearing tree.
And of course that's from a poem titled "Gerontion."
It's an interesting debate on both sides here. Cookie is not entirely wrong, but he's not entirely right, either. Sometimes the best way to teach requires a veil. Sometimes - often - the burden of ruling requires deception.
And he throws Luna in her face. From what I've read through this? Luna's fall is on him more than anyone else. He created a self fulfilling prophecy, and moreso was a huge wedge between Celestia and Luna. All the time she spent with him? As blog noted, Luna was left ignored while she ruled - and had cookie to go with. Take him out, her sister could have had more time to learn, to grow, to not fall to darkness.
But Celestia placed country before family then. From what I can tell, partly at his advice. And now that he is on the receiving end, now it is ultimatum time? It feels...a touch hypocritical. But then, Cookie clearly has flaws. Deep ones.
So I can buy that, it just makes him not the wounded party he claims here.
What really turned it ech for me was his 'you never get to know' bit. 'You don't get to know until I feel you are ready'? That would have worked much better. But he's being deliberately manipulative here in a way far worse than Celestia's chess playing, in my eyes.
8144385
Just a quick point: Cookie never advised Celestia to put country before family. He advised her multiple times to put her own safety and sanity before country or family (and was willing to lie for her to that end,) and he advised her that she may need to choose between country and family, but actually argued more for the family side, pointing out that she's a pony with personal concerns.
Cookie does have his deep flaws, but his first concern has always been for Celestia as an individual pony, which has included her relationship with Luna, but focused on her personal safety and happiness in that relationship.
8144408 I would argue he may not have directly said it, but the way he feels to me is that in her hooves even if he's saying one thing, he's wishing for another. It's the subtle pressure of expectation, and for me it...I guess I pick a lot of it up there. It may not be intentional, on writer or character, it's just how emotionally he has come across from my perspective.
I love how this chapter begins with Smart Cookie hiding information from Celestia for 800 years in regards to Luna and the accusing her of doing the same thing in regards to a private conversation with Discord for a couple of weeks. I dunno, this outburst of his was pretty childish, right down to the whole princess this majesty that.
This chapter nearly made me cry.
I want Celestia and Cookie to come out of this alright. I want their relationship to be rectified, but I understand why both of them can't budge. Both have the same end goal—to keep Equestria thriving—but each have different moral codes to live by—whereas Celestia has to do whatever it takes, Cookie keeps to his ethical code to leave ponies be. Whereas Celestia wants to understand if love will keep the loved ones of immortals alive, cookie wants to hold onto the fact that his immortality, and thus his love for Celestia, is a blessing from unknown forces rather than something that can be manipulated. The falling out between them at the end is understandable, but it still hurts.
8236899
I want them both to come to a good end, but after how Cookie treated Celestia, I don't see their relationship as worth saving.
8144408
You know... maybe it's just me, but it feels like most of the times when readers point out what they believe to be Cookie's flaws, serious flaws, the answer more often than not seems to be they're wrong about those. Well, what are the flaws then we should have taken away from the narrative so far? Is he too smart? Too humble? Too idealist?
And I know it's a matter probably going to be addressed in future chapters, so if anything, please take this as just a slightly-confused reader rambling about personal impressions.
8351670
I really hate telling people they're wrong about anything in the fic, and I probably shouldn't have done it as much as I did, though I don't suppose it would have mattered. As for what I see/planned in what I wrote so far, I'll spoiler it incase people want a clean reading:
Cookie's flaw at the core of the plot is a major inferiority complex/imposter syndrome stemming from being a failure jumped up to a magical saviour and head of government and an earth pony consort of an alicorn princess. Added to that, he's been alive for two thousand years with no discernible purpose and witnessed multiple beings try to destroy Equestria which he had absolutely no power to stop. As far as he can tell, his only worthwhile contribution to the world has been Equestria, and so he's absolutely stubborn and uncompromising on his vision of what it should be, and along with that he's extremely sensitive to power balances, both politically and personally.
Celestia's plans regarding Discord hit him squarely in all of these: implying that she didn't see him as an equal in their relationship, that she saw nothing wrong with manipulating him to get him to do something against his will, that she couldn't trust him to decide what to do with the single passive power he has, and, the breaking point, she felt she had a duty to subvert the balance of power he saw as the core of Equestria.
At least, that's what I thought I wrote.
Initially, I had thought the juxtaposition of this chapter with the showdown with pre-NMM Luna served merely to give context to the conversations about how Cookie did not work behind Celestia's back when she refused to see and act on the problems surrounding Luna. However, upon further thought, I think there are two additional reasons. At least to me, the story seems to draw some parallels between Luna and Celestia because this is the point at which we discover the one power that would tempt Celestia: the power to keep those close to her from harm. This power is so alluring to Celestia that she is willing to do which she knows is wrong (go against Cookie's wishes behind his back) in order to attempt to secure it. We also see hints of this flaw in the previous chapter. When Cookie suggests possible solution's to Luna's impending treachery, Celestia dismisses them mostly because they would hurt Luna's feelings (thereby choosing the wellbeing of her sister over endangering the future of Equestria).
Of course, that Celestia is flawed and can be tempted by some power is not surprising given that the story emphasizes that she is not perfect and just a pony. However, this begs the question, what power or what desire would tempt Smart Cookie such that he would be willing to go against his principles to obtain it?
I take back what I said in the previous chapter. I do not fathom how anyone can possibly read this and not realize how deeply flawed Celestia is here. This chapter was intense and at times Cookie was unfair, but Celestia deeply hurt him and just does not comprehend how. It's not that she doesn't care, I believe earnestly that she does. By she is so unable to even understand someone she has loved for two thousand years.
As for my reaction, I was listening to this chapter with gritted teeth, and audibly swore when Cookie referred to her as princess. When he continued to dig into her, I hid my face for the horror of what was happening here. Absolutely stunning work. My heart breaks for these two, I've loved them so dearly almost immediately. Not as individuals, it took some chapters for me to warm up to either of them and I'm not fully certain that I would like either of them still if I were faced with one or the other. But together as lovers? These two have won my heart.
I remind myself that there is much to do in this story, and I make no efforts to figure out where it might go. I must also retract another previous statement of mine, as I'm now eager to hear more of this story, because while it took a considerable amount of time to get here, this has become quite the gripping novel.