This was an experience that I hope to never have ever again.
She stayed up for hours.
Even when Spike finally came in and went to sleep without a problem, and even after she put out the lights.
She wouldn’t stop twisting and turning in her bed.
And then, when it finally did happen, when she finally passed out, I realized that it didn’t even matter.
I could have risked sneaking out of her room after she finally managed to pass out. Only, there was one very big problem.
I was scared of waking up Twilight, or Spike, who would certainly in turn wake Twilight.
Even though I’m pretty sure the odds of that actually happening are pretty low, I still wasn’t going to risk it. Not when statue time is the penalty for failure.
Of course, Twilight’s reaction to my note was priceless. And her ideas about potions were definitely something to seriously consider.
There’s nothing wrong with taking her advice if she didn’t know I was there.
I’m glad that I was able to get at least that much from this business.
I can’t believe that I let her trap me inside of her own room. And, what makes it even worse is that she didn’t even know that she did it!
I’m definitely going to have to pay more attention to my surroundings from now on. I was so busy writing that stupid note, I didn’t even sense Twilight’s return until I finished writing it, only to realize that she was already in the library.
I was already trapped from that very moment. Leaving the way that I came in was out of the question, and the window was sealed.
I should have just smashed the window open, but for some stupid reason, I had it in my head to try to not leave my evidence of my presence. As if she wouldn’t figure out that I had been there when she read my note!
And then I realized that Twilight was coming up to her room and I took the only remaining course of action left to me. I hid under her bed.
Watching her freak out was great, of course, but it would have been much more enjoyable if I wasn’t so nervous about what would happen to me if I was discovered.
But it’s all over now. I actually managed to sit through the entire night, and now Twilight has finally gone downstairs.
And now I’m considering smashing that window in.
And yet...
Ugh. I hate to admit it, but breaking glass would be a really stupid idea. She would probably hear it.
Oh, hello, what have we here? What’s this little clasp thingy?
Oh. So that’s how you open the window.
That’s really easy, actually.
Freedom, here I come!
Although I have one hand clutching stolen books, I’m able to slip out of the window and climb out onto a branch.
Should I bother closing the window again?
I can’t reach that clasp from the outside, so it won’t be possible to seal it like it was before.
Although, if I leave it wide open, Twilight might suspect that I came back again.
And this would be a problem, why?
Good point. Why do I care, I’ll be far away from here by the time she notices.
I’m just going to leave it wide open.
As I crawl down the side of the library, I see that my minions are loyally waiting at the bottom.
As soon as I get close enough, one of them starts running its mouth!
“Zip it!” I quietly snap. “Somepony might hear you!”
The jackalopes look stunned, but they don’t make any more noises.
I quietly sneak back to where my bush disguise is waiting for me.
And almost step on a box hidden inside.
I can smell sugar.
Of course! I forgot about that! Clearly, they were successful in the mission I had given them!
Now if only they had had the presence of mind to get the boxes back to the cave instead of hanging around here and worrying about me.
At least they joined me in this bush without me having to specifically tell them to do so.
Alright, there’s nopony watching. Let’s get far enough out of here that I can talk.
I pick up the bush around us once more and away we go.
I don’t need to go very far. This is far enough. I stop and set the bush down, and then turn toward the jackalopes.
“Alright, before I can leave Ponyville, we still need to see if Rarity actually came through with my ‘request’, and if she did, get the stuff and get out without her noticing. But we can’t be hauling those boxes with us. We’ll hide them somewhere and come back for them.”
“Alright, here we are,” I whisper. “This is Carousel Boutique. You,” I say as I point at the jackalope with the longest horns. “You know what to look for, right?”
He nods.
“Excelent. To work!”
He salutes and hops away.
The door to the shop opens ever so slightly as the critter sneaks inside.
So far so good.
And now, only about a minute later, it cracks open again. And now here he is once more.
“So, does she have my stuff?”
He nods.
I feel a burst exhilaration at this. I knew she would be too generous for her own good! When the day finally comes when I reveal to Rarity about how she aided me in regaining my powers and taking over Equestria, it will be glorious!
Unfortunately, the mare was also currently on the premises, as I knew from my ability to sense her magic.
And there was also another magic signature. One that I have no idea what it belongs to. It seems familiar, but I just can’t seem to place my talon on it.
“I suppose the pony is wide awake?” I ask.
I get a nod in response. But then he makes a strange gesture that I don’t understand.
I shrug at the critter.
He scratches his head for a second, and then bares his teeth at me and makes a hissing noise.
Before I have much opportunity to wonder what in the world has gotten into him, he points at the shop.
“Ahhhh...” I say. “She has a cat, am I right?”
Another nod.
This is good news, actually.
“Do you think you could get its attention?”
The jackalopes all look terrified at this idea. But he does finally nod his head again.
“Don’t worry, I think I have a plan.”
I take a look around, looking for anything that could be useful against a frenzied feline.
There is a wooden bucket sitting in the street not far from here.
I grab the bush again and make my way toward it.
When I get close enough, I stop, and then jump almost on top of it, enveloping it in foliage.
Just as I had hoped, it has water in it.
“This will do,” I tell the long horned one.
We scamper back to the boutique.
“Get that thing to make a lot of noise,” I say. “When the pony comes running outside to try to calm it down, the rest of you get in there and get me what we came here for. And I will be helping you, mister distraction, so have no fear. Let’s get to it!”
The long horned jackalope is obviously still nervous, but he does as I say. The door cracks open once again.
It remains quiet for only a moment longer.
Suddenly, I can hear the sound of the cat as it sounds like something stepped on its tail.
“Opal!” I hear Rarity cry out.
Suddenly, the door flies open and my faithful minion comes shooting out of the boutique, carrying a fuzzy green mouse toy, and the white kitty is in hot persuit.
“Opal!” shouted Rarity. Before the door can close itself again, she runs through it and looks down the street, trying to locate her pet, and then looks down the opposite direction.
As planned, as soon as she ran after the sounds of her excited feline, the rest of my minions rush through the boutique door.
I just hope that they can work quickly.
Suddenly, long horns runs past me, coming back from where he ran off to. The crazy cat is still chasing after him.
Rarity is somewhat further behind, but I can hear her yelling, “Opal, what has gotten into you?”
Aha! Here comes my box of supplies!
They’ve managed to get it into the bush without being seen by anypony. I don’t have time to look over the spoils yet, however.
Here comes my brave little fur ball again.
As he runs by, I slosh the bucket of water directly behind him.
Right onto that cat.
It saw the water coming a split second before it hit her, but she couldn’t avoid it.
Not that she didn’t try. Made a feline screeching noise and somehow jumped in the air in a hysterical flip as she tried change the direction of her momentum, but the water simply fell onto her in mid-air, completely soaking her fluffy fur.
I am struggling to not burst out laughing right now! The last thing I need is to be discovered!
The kitty sure does look a lot smaller now.
Ah, and here comes Lady Rarity, here to save the day!
“Opal! Goodness gracious, what ever happened to you?” she cried in concern and confusion.
Opal meowed back miserably.
“Why, you poor, poor thing!” Rarity cried. “Let’s get you dried up!”
And then, she put the soaking wet creature on her back, to my great surprise. I was rather under the impression that that pony would do anything to avoid anything unpleasant happening to her coat.
I look down and see that long horns is back in the bush.
He’s still holding the toy mouse. And looking quite pleased.
“Here,” I offer, holding out my paw to him. “Let’s put it in the box and take it back with us. As a trophy of victory.”
He does so.
Ah, what fun this was! However, more importantly, I have everything that I need at last! It’s time to retreat to the rabbit-hole and find me some magic!
Twilight was sitting in the library, anxiously awaiting a response to a very important letter.
That answer came very abruptly when the front door opened and none other than Princess Celestia herself stepped inside.
“Princess!” cried Twilight in shock. “I... I see that you received my letter!”
“I did,” answered Celestia, her tone grave.
There was an awkward silence. Spike ceased bowing before the ruler of the country and spoke up.
“Can... can I get either of you some tea?”
The princess started to refuse, but then stammered and said, “Yes, that would help greatly.”
Spike raced into the kitchen, leaving Twilight alone with her mentor.
“Have you had any further contact with Discord after he fled?” asked Celestia.
“Yes, a little,” Twilight answered nervously. She hadn’t put this information into her brief letter. “He came to the library when I wasn’t here and stole several books and to leave a note to taunt me!”
“And even now, he roams free,” said Celestia solemnly.
“Princess, I don’t understand why Discord would do this!” cried Twilight.
“Discord loves one thing, and only one thing in this world,” answered Celestia angrily. “His powers of chaos. All thoughts that are unrelated to regaining it have no place in his mind. He has no interest in what we have to teach him because he does not believe that it is worth his time. And he hates being controlled more than anything. He will not allow himself to play by any rules other than his own, even if it means that he must lose the one thing that he loves.”
“Princess, I...” Twilight trailed off and hesitated to continue. Princess Celestia gave her a look, asking her to finish her thought.
“I think we might have made a terrible mistake by separating Discord from his powers...”
“What would you have me do, Twilight?” asked Celestia wearily. “His anger burns hot, and if we return his power to him now, I have no doubt in my mind that he would use it to destroy us all.”
“But what if we never took it away in the first place?” Twilight insisted. “We could have still kept him in line with the elements! If we didn’t take away the thing that he loves most, he wouldn’t have run away from us!”
“I appreciate the confidence that you have in yourself, and in your friends. And even... in Discord himself. You might even be completely correct,” Celestia admitted. “But I was the one who made this decision that has now backfired. All of the blame for whatever befalls now is mine.”
“But that’s not true!” cried Twilight.
“It is true,” insisted Celestia. “And Discord knows it. And he’s smart enough to know that you and your friends are innocent in this matter. He may taunt you, and scare you, but you are not the victim of his wrath.”
Celestia hung her head.
“I am.”
“Princess...”
“Twilight, I need you to understand this: if I personally confront Discord, any hope we have of reforming him is doomed.”
“But if we just give him back his powers, maybe-“
“I can’t!” cried Celestia abrubtly.
Twilight’s eyes shot wide open. “What? But why not?”
“Because,” Celestia cried, “like Discord himself, chaos magic does not like to be controlled! Soon after I removed it from Discord, his magic forced itself out of the vessel that I placed it within, despite all of the magic that I placed upon it to prevent it from happening!”
“Do you mean to say that Discord’s magic is going to find him again?”
“Twilight, calm down! No, despite what I have just told you, I have managed to keep his magic contained!”
“But how? You just told me that you were unable to contain it!”
Celestia let out a long sigh.
“Technically, suppression of Discord’s magic is impossible. However, I have found that I have much more success with less forceful methods of containment. I have... made it comfortable in the environment that I have provided for it, and… ‘encouraged’ it to stay put.
“However, there is nothing to stop Discord from reclaiming his power, should he somehow break the magic seals that lead to it. If he learns of this, it could be disastrous.”
“I see…” said Twilight. “So, what do we do then?”
“We will do nothing,” answered Celestia.
“Nothing?”
“If Discord is come to his senses, he must make that decision for himself, without influence from others. If we attempt to interfere, he will automatically turn away from what is right. I do not cherish the thought of Discord running lose, but if he wants to remain unfound, he will have no choice but to not cause trouble. Until he does, I can do nothing.”
“But there must be some way for me to help!”
“You can help by living out your life as though nothing is amiss. Discord wants to cause chaos, wants you to disrupt your life in order to focus on him. Don’t let that happen.”
“What is this?”
Sitting in the light of one of my two new lamps, I behold the object in my hands in complete surprise.
“I didn’t ask her for this!”
I’m holding a fedora.
Why am I holding a fedora?
It’s black with a red ribbon tied around the base.
When I flip it over, I discover something even stranger.
The inside is hard. And there are rivets all along the edges.
What I am in fact holding is nothing less than a fedora bolted to a hard-hat.
‘Of course,’ I realize. ‘She think’s I mine rocks for a career! She threw this in to protect my skull.’
My skull doesn’t need protecting.
Still...
I have to admit. Despite the other numerous flaws that that pony has, she does have an excellent fashion sense.
I’ll keep this little hat. I’ll wear it when I finally decide to show myself.
“Anybunny else hungry?” I ask, looking around at the jackalopes around me in the burrow. “I’m starving. Let’s tear into those cakes.”
I don’t even care that I don’t have a plate or any utensils whatsoever. I’ll just grab a piece and eat it from my claw.
...
This is the best cake I have ever had...
WHY IS THIS SO GOOD?
There’s no way that this can be superior to my own technically perfect confectionary fabrications.
Actually, now that I stop and think, I don’t even remember the last time I ate anything that was prepared by a pony.
There’s very faint traces of magic in this cake. I have no idea what it is, but it must be responsible. There is no other explanation.
It’s probably not dangerous, though. After all, the pony who made it didn’t know I would be the one to eat it.
Oh, is my cake slice gone already?
Maybe I’ll just have another…
NO! You don’t want to wind up like Celestia! Forget about sweets for a few minutes and get on with the whole finding magic thing!
And I don’t want any fur balls following me.
I want this moment to be mine, and mine alone.
There is a lot of junk to carry down there with me. I’ll just have to tie it all to my body with the bungee cords.
“It’s time,” I declare, drawing the attention of the jackalopes. “I’m going down there now. I’ll be back soon. Probably. I don’t want you following me.”
They chatter something to me.
“Yeah, yeah. I’ll be fine. Just make sure that there’s someone here waiting for me when I come back.”
I turn the knob on the lantern tied to my waist. I decided to leave the other one with fuzzy ones. I can’t carry it along with everything else I’m hauling already. My lantern starts giving off a fairly bright glow.
And away I go.
The passageway almost immediately starts sloping down as I leave the burrow behind. Already I am surrounded by solid stone in every direction. And my feet are complaining a little bit.
But I ignore that. That doesn’t matter right now.
Suddenly, I step out of the passage and I am surrounded by darkness in all directions, despite the light of the lantern.
I grab the kazoo which is strung around my neck and bring it up to my mouth and blow into it.
The buzzing noise echoes all around me. After it fades away, there is complete silence, except for a steady dripping noise. There is a drip about once every fifteen seconds.
Well, if there was anything alive down here, it would have done something. Probably.
I turn the light up some more, trying to see my surroundings.
The chamber that I am standing in is huge.
There is a pool of stagnant water nearby. And there are ripples appearing on its surface in sync with the dripping noise.
I look up and strain my eyes at the ceiling, several dozen feet above.
The ceiling is quite thoroughly pocked in one direction. However, there is a smooth, round area where it looks like whatever used to be there fell down.
In the middle of this smooth area is a huge crack that seems to run the entire length of the room. Or, at least, it goes for as far as I can see.
The drips of water seem to actually be originating from a particular spot in that crack.
There must be water actually making its way from the forest all the way down here. All through that one crack in the rocks.
How fascinating...
I press onward, but I don’t get very far before my light reveals something that simply demands my attention.
BACON.
I shake my head. What in the world is wrong with me? And what is it about that gryphonic dish that I had over a thousand years ago that made it stick in my mind?
It looks more like curtains, really.
The giant rock formation really does look like that. Really, really tall curtains.
And behind the curtains lies a precious treasure.
And so I continue onward again, into the passage at the base of the giant formation.
There are stalactites lining one side of this new passage.
That group of them right there looks pretty cool, I guess.
...
Hang on a second, back up. Let’s get a look at them again!
I give the stalactites another glance. They are all lined up neatly in a row, and they go from biggest to smallest in an unbroken sequence.
Suddenly, a mad urge seizes me and I pick up a couple of loose, long rocks from the cave floor.
And I beat one of them against the largest stalactite.
It releases a delicious low tone.
And I start laughing like a maniac, beating these stupid rocks against them like a xylophone.
It’s a shame that there is nobody else here to listen to my musical genius.
This is fantastic! Of course, I’ve heard far richer sounds from musical instruments of my own making, but there is something beautiful in the flaws of the sound that this natural phenomenon gives off. It sounds glorious!
Or, at least, it did.
One of the stalactites just conked off because I whacked it too hard...
Darn it.
Note to self: Request a bottle of glue from Rarity.
Okay, enough fooling around. The primal magic is close now. I can feel it. If I’m lucky, I won’t even have to dig to it.
Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to crawl down a pit though.
I can’t see the bottom.
I’m still holding the rocks I was using to play my natural xylophone. Huh. That’s convenient.
I drop one down the hole. A few seconds later, I hear it hit the bottom.
I make a quick calculation in my head and then pull the one free bungee cord I have off of my shoulder and tie it to a big rock.
And then I grab the other end at vaguely the right spot.
And jump down the hole.
“Waahooo!”
I just got a glimpse of the ground at the bottom.
It looks awfully like the ground up at the top.
I let myself bounce a few times just for fun, and then hop off.
I’m really close to the magic now.
I can just taste it.
Or, whatever. I don’t really know of a word to describe how I use my sixth sense. Maybe I should make one up.
As I walk along, I’m day dreaming of the wonderful things I will do once I-
OH MY CHAOS, POPCORN.
I’m serious! The wall here is all rough and bumpy and yellow and it totally looks like it’s made of popcorn!
“I hereby declare this the wall of popcorn rocks!” I say aloud.
Feeling very pleased with myself, I get back on track and continue forward once again.
The magic I came here for is in the next chamber. I can feel it.
And I just passed into it.
And then, there was a powerful burst of magic.
I’m literally blinded for a moment as my eyes are unused to the intense light.
And now the light fades, revealing-
OH, CHAOS NO. THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE.
“Discord.”
“Princess Celestia,” I hiss back, too confused to bother to think of an insult. “And all six elements of harmony, armed with your accursed jewelry. How in the great blue moon did you find me down here?”
“That’s easy. I have predicted everything that you have done since your release.”
“That’s a lie!” I shout furiously. “You can’t predict chaos! Even I had no idea I would be coming here!”
“Your chaos is gone.”
“Nooooo, really? And who has it, I wonder?”
“Nopony does. It has been destroyed.”
Head spinning. Thinking hurts now.
“WHAT?”
“When I learned that I could not control your magic, and that I cannot control you, I realized that you have now become useless to me. And so I banished your magic from this world. And now I am here to do the same to you.”
Despair.
“Fine. You want to use the elements on me again? I’m defenseless. I have nothing now. Nothing. Why should I even care any more?”
...
...
“Wait!”
Shock overwhelms me. I look up to stare at the pony who spoke.
Twilight Sparkle…
“Princess Celestia, we don’t have to do this!” Twilight cried. “There’s nothing more that he can do to hurt anypony anymore!”
I gape at her. Everything around me seems frozen as I gaze at her in complete and utter confusion.
What is she doing?!
In spite of everything, even though I don’t understand why she is doing this in the very slightest, I can’t help but feel something.
Just the smallest bit grateful.
I don’t mind admitting it. Not now. It won’t matter in a moment anyway.
“Twilight Sparkle!” shouted Celestia. “I am aware that I told you to gather together allies, but you need to learn to know a lost cause when you see one. Use the elements on Discord, now!
“… Yes, Princess Celestia.”
I didn’t think it was possible.
Somehow, Twilight's actions actually feel even worse than Celestia's.
And that should be impossible.
The elements start to glow.
And I feel magic in the air.
A very wrong sort of magic.
My despair is washed away, replaced with a sea of rage.
“You aren’t the elements of harmony.”
The only response that I get is glares.
“And you aren’t Princess Celestia! Your magic doesn’t feel a thing like them! In fact, you aren’t ponies at all!”
The elements are still glowing, but they notably are failing to fire off.
“You’re nothing. I’m not afraid of you.”
And then, with that, the illusion finally dissipated.
And all that is left is...
Mushrooms.
Giant mushrooms. Hundreds of them, all in this little chamber. Each about a foot across.
And each loaded with some of the strangest cacophonies of magic I have ever felt.
And in the center of the chamber was a wispy nodule, spewing forth primal magic.
Which is then absorbed by these evil fungi.
They’ve been thriving off of Primal magic down here for years. Centuries. Drinking it up like water and repurposing it to their own needs.
And I think I’m beggining to understand. I can sense the magic in these accursed things. I’m getting an idea of exactly what it is, and how it is made, and what it does.
The primal magic node has never formed into anything more complex because this isolated mushroom colony drinks it up before it can build up to a critical point.
And the mushrooms have a very special defense mechanism.
They show you what you fear.
Technically, removing Discord's power was like taking away the credit card of a spoiled rich brat until he learns to behave. Nothing wrong with that choice, Celestia.
The only mistake was not accounting his resourcefulness and putting him under better vigilance.
y'know, wouldn't destroying Discord's magic totally throw of the Harmonic Balance.
Discord + Chaos x Ponies = Harmony?
7408644 Oh yes, destroying it would be disastrously stupid. Thankfully, the illusion Celestia who claimed that that was what happened was lying.
7408665
Totes.
7408290
No, its more akin to taking the wings off a bird or removing someone's thumbs. Its stealing away a very important and personal component of their being. While they could live without it, they would do everything to prevent it from happening or undo it, and become very untrusting and violent to the person(s) that violated that part of them.
So, wrong choice Celestia, but right choice in not personally confronting him. If he's mad enough, he might just try to kill her. Depending on what he's managed to do up until then, he might succeed or leave Celestia with something to remember him by.
7408290
7408720
This seems to be quite a point of controversy. I won't stop people from debating it just so long as things remain civil.
However, I do have a piece of information that you should find interesting. I recently read quite a few Discord stories in order to pass the time on my vacation, particularly Reformation stories.
Most notable of these is a fic here on this site called Learning ABCs, a fairly old and well viewed one too. It's another Twicord story where Discord is stripped of his powers before being reformed, but unlike what I have done here, he decides to cooperate, more or less. He is given back partial power pretty quickly as a reward and a symbol of good faith. That fic is probably the heaviest influence for this story, although it is definitely not the only one.
7408720
Removing wings and thumbs off of someone if they used those exact things to cause harm and trouble to people, twice.
Well, Celestia is right about one thing, Discord would certainly attempt to kill her currently the moment he gets his magic back.
After that, he doesn't even have to do anything to cause chaos. Even with Princess Luna around, the ponies would probably riot and Equestria would fall apart because they've been so ingrained to having Princess Celestia around to rule them. Democracy, what's that, is that something you can eat? (Well OK, even if Mayor Mare is appointed or something, we still see the foals voting in Crusaders of the Lost Mark)
7408969
Second time doesn't count. He never physically harmed anyone and the only ponies whose minds he inverted were the mane 6, the ones trying to get the elements to turn him back to stone. Note that Celestia was unharmed in that episode, and left unsupervised enough to send dozens of letters. Besides them, he just made things...weird, not harmful. Granny Smith was dancing somehow and Big Mac was acting like a dog-worm. Again, weird, but not harmful. Even the altered animals just ran with it when their forms changed.
As for the first time he did it, we're never going to know the fully story that. In the only flashback to that scene, its all very much the same. Strange, unnerving, but we didn't even see any ponies besides the princesses. Them and the tree, his direct enemies, are the only ones we know he had any malicious actions towards back than.
My personal headcanon is that Discord always used the land in Pre-Equestria times as either his home or playground, which would explain the lack of residences before the three tribes moved in. Once ponies tried to make homes there, well, he just kept playing. He probably assumed they would leave- and if not, they were the ones deciding to live there.
Again, headcanon- which is all we have since canon never gave a direction explanation for what prompted this apparent Tyranny of Chaos.
7409356
Even if he hasn't harmed someone the reality is that on two separate occasions he has brought massive trouble to Equestria using his absurd powers.
Allowing him to have his powers, which he abused the hell out of on all of Equestria, is a massive security risk and is very understandable to disable/strip them of those powers if he can't show that he's willing to play nice with them in the rest of Equestria.
7409376
"Massive Trouble" is too loose a subject here to discuss. He made the world into a Dr. Seuss book? Big Whoop. He made it rain chocolate milk and corn pop into popcorn? He basically just changed the ecosystem around to cartoonish effects. Only difference between that and a regular big eco-shift is that Dscord is more sudden and doesn't leave a body count.
Also, from Discord's stand point, that'd be very much the same as pigs or ants trying to order us to play nice with them. Even if we could understand them, a majority of us would laugh just as Discord would. You're talking about trying to get what amounts to a nigh-omnipotent god to obey the laws of mortals, laws that he predates several times over. The folly of such a thing is matched only by the consequences.
Truth of the matter is that Discord is on top of the food chain there, with few things that could contend with him. That he's pro-life enough to not permanently put down any threat to him is both his greatest fault and best quality. Disabling/stealing his powers, in full honesty, is the last thing you want to do: Because he might just be willing to kill to get it back and keep it. Few things more terrifying that a desperate god.
7409356
7409376
The ponies didn't take well to his chaos. For us it may just be weird, but for them it was very disturbing. And, if nothing else, Discord definitely has been shown to alter pony's minds and leave them in dispair. He was undeniably evil. The elements saw fit to seal him in stone twice, and Celestia, the sole witness to ancient Discord's exploits who we actually see react to him, is annoyed by him and fears for the country, so he was probably evil and childish the first time around too.
In the face of that, taking away his powers is... justifiable. It's a relatively small punishment in the face of what he did. It's merciful of them to give him a chance at all, and a risk on their part. And and if they can reform him without taking his powers? That's even more merciful, and admirable.
The problem is NOT, however, whether or not he deserves it. They're not trying to punish him. They're trying to befriend him. Taking his power might be justice, but it will hurt their efforts to befriend him. Now the problem becomes this: how much are they willing to forgive, and how much are they willing to compromise? Dropping the evil attitude is, of course, non-negotiable. And they still have to ensure their own safety.
And now it becomes a lot more complicated.
7409523
We're going to have to disagree with that, Author. Which is sad as it is very telling of how this portrayal of Discord might go.
Sentient creatures don't take well to change quite often. Discord is about as evil as the passage of Time. And if they consider Discord evil than ponies are far too close minded.
You say its merciful in the case of what he did. Exclude the self-defense against the Mane 6, I don't see much that warrants thousands of years in stone, being fully aware of the world but unable to do a single thing. You don't throw something into that once and expect him to NOT prevent that from happening again- getting some payback along the way is just fun.
You say he deserved that, that getting his powers taken away was justified. If that is true, than every action he takes now is equally justified in his quest to take what was stolen. They have brought him down to their level- now they have to reap the consequences as he adapts to that. Because when you're omnipotent, its easy to get what you want without killing or injurying others. Now that he's potent? Not so much.
7409562 Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I didn't say he's irrevocably evil, nor do I think he considers himself to be evil. I just think he has somewhat different values that regrettably put him at odds with everyone around him.
7409608
THAT I will definitely agree with. Old goat probably gave up trying to keep track of moral codes when Griffons and pegasi started to get along.
Of course, this all falls under the assumption that Discord isn't a grand manipulator who has been plotting a lot of things that happened in canon. Or that he didn't just go insane from the chaos magic.
One thing you got to love about Discord: You can paint him many different ways without being wrong.
7409630 Cool. I'm actually pretty happy we came to some degree of understanding. I hope you stick around.
And no, I don't think Discord is a master manipulator. I don't think he has the time and patience for that, at least for plans that span across multiple years. He might go for a months long plan if he has to, or if he knows that the payoff will be worth it.
Edit: And the plundervines don't count. He didn't exactly plan that, beyond having a simple plan he could execute and then walk away from.
7409650
Don't worry, I intend to.
Eh, depends on the version of Discord- though, I largely support that line of thought because of Twilight's Kingdom, with how he SPOON FED them the answers to the keys to the Chest of Harmony and how his "betrayal" resulted in the final one being found. That whole thing bugs me as "something is going on here." Though, that could be him knowing the answers and "going too far" to help a friend, Twilight in this case,....which is kind of hilarious in that context. XP
To your PS- I can't help feeling he was amused that those things were actually still around. And, plus, he did motivate Twilight to go after them, which resulted in them saving the tree....And he fessed up to it all when no one would have known it was him.
7409489
Its no loose definition. He came into Equestria. Took it over and make life practically unbearable for those already living there for his own personal amusement and did not care for those he purposely inconvenienced. Just because he didn't leave behind a body count does not make it any less worse.
Doesn't matter how he views it. They told him to stop and when he didn't they fought back as is their right and he lost. So everything is on his head.
He was on the top of the food chain. He invaded. He lost. So its either submit to the victors or leave.
You also seem to be injecting a lot of your own personal headcanon into this. You shouldn't.
7409691 Alright, now I'm starting to get uncomfortable here. A debate doesn't go anywhere when both sides start repeating themselves in different ways, and I'm starting to see that now. Perhaps you can find something else to discuss?
I noticed that nobody said anything about the illusion for instance. I was kind of hoping someone would...
7409691
Headcanon is all we have. You don't know that he invaded. For all we know, he was there first and the Ponies are the invaders. Canon is equally likely towards both cases. And no, he is still on top of the food chain. The elements of harmony are the only thing that can even just hold him back. holding him back isn't a victory, its a stalemate. Therefore, ponies are still below him on the foodchain- up until rainbow powers possibly, but that's not here or there and only applies to the mane 6.
Your argument also goes both way: By that logic, the ponies should have submitted or left when Discord soundly conquered them. They had the right to rebel, same as he has the right to overthrow them again.
Also, yes, it does make it less worse. You say he made it unbearable. We have no proof of that. Besides his direct enemies, the mane 6, no one seems to be suffering. To say otherwise is as much headcanon as anything else. You say he purposefully inconvenienced them. A drought, blizzard, or a climate change inconveniences people too, they adapt to it or leave.
Claiming Discord is just a villain is the easy way out of siding with the victors.
7409745
Apologies, but someone has to be on Discord's side of things. As for the illusion, it is interesting. So Celestia is part of Discord's fear- likely a more recent thing, but possibly the thousand years in stone played a part too. And Twilight too? Hmm, wonder if that's just shameless fluff for the budding romance or something else. And obviously he despairs over the idea of truly losing his powers forever.
.....And I just realized that these Fear-shrooms are going to be weapons of his in the future......
Poor ponies.....Oh boy, Luna and/or Celestia are going to have some Nightmare in their dreams.
7409489
As a major Discord fan myself, I have to say I think you're minimizing the damage he did.
Houses floating in air? Ponyville has very few pegasus residents, so most of those houses, he either trapped the ponies inside them, or he prevented ponies from being able to access their homes. Chocolate milk rain? Delicious to us (and presumably ponies), but for most animals, chocolate is poisonous. Puddles of sweet chocolate milk would be very enticing to a lot of animals who'd get awfully sick if they drank it. Also, milk goes bad before it evaporates, so everything that absorbs water that was exposed to the chocolate milk is going to end up smelling rotten. Dancing buffalo? Buffalo don't live anywhere near Ponyville. If those were real buffalo and not a construct, he just dragged three beings halfway across the country to perform for him. And don't get me started on Granny Smith and how dangerous the dancing she was doing could have been for her health. I'm 46 and dancing like that would throw out my hips.
He's certainly not ultimate evil and I think if ponies had accepted him and made a place for him in their society he could have learned to moderate his behavior millennia ago. But he's totally and completely inconsiderate of everyone else's wants and needs. In a world where the sun rises and falls on a whim... nothing's going to grow right. So all anypony gets to eat is what Discord provides... which seems to be a diet of sweets, mostly, though maybe one day he decides that broccoli are going to pop up everywhere and attack ponies and need to be eaten to be defeated. But the point is, no one gets to pick what they're going to grow or what they're going to eat -- they become dependent on Discord to feed them because he's prevented them from growing food. If winter can come in a moment's whimsy, ponies who were not dressed for it are likely to fall ill, but you can't go around dressed for winter because on a snap it could be a hot summer day.
In a world where no one can predict anything and ponies have no security and no control over their own environment... under such circumstances people and animals develop learned helplessness, a kind of situational mental illness that's basically despair and an inability to learn anything new or take action to improve their condition, because they've learned that nothing they do matters. Imagine an entire nation of ponies apathetic and despairing because they can't carve out any stability in their lives.
If you seriously think about how disruptive he was in Return of Harmony, and then imagine that every day is that disruptive, for years... yeah, they had to stop him and they were pretty much justified in using whatever means they could. Turning someone into a living statue is horrible, a fate arguably far worse than death, but they didn't have the option to send him to jail. Taking his powers away is actually merciful in comparison -- either way he can't use his magic, but if he's free, he can breathe and eat and move and feel and see and talk and interact with others, none of which he can do if he's a statue. Though it's a bad move if the goal is to try to befriend him.
I love Discord, but he's not harmless. He's arguably the least likely to kill you of all the villains we've encountered except Sunset Shimmer (Starlight would actually hold that position if she hadn't destroyed seven universes through time travel), but your quality of life may end up being so bad you end up with severe depression and PTSD.
7410893
The difference between what I do and most other fans do is stop looking at Discord as if he's a national criminal and look at him as the god-tier being he is.
To start with, chocolate rain: The ponies, including Fluttershy, are not at all concerned about the animals eating Cotton Candy Clouds with Chocolate Rain. As for the plants? Brief tangent: In the Nightmare Moon alternate timeline, the Everfree is definitely not dying or freezing, indicating that Nightmare Moon made the it so plants could survive on moonlight. If thatis true, it is not at all strange Discord could make plants and animals survive on his chocolate rain.
Floating Houses? There were numerous moments where Ponies could float or even WALK in the air without wings during his reign. Not only that, but there is also the obvious angle that he likely has it so that the checkboard ground is cartoonishly bouncy,
As for Granny Smith- I took that as his chaos magic repaired or improved her hip while it was in effect.
Dancing buffalos? Actually, let me go back to the animals in general. Did anyone notice that the ponies were the only ones freaking out?The animals, buffalos and long legged bunny, acted right as rain. And as his mind-altering is signaled by a greying of color, they obviously weren't mind controlled. Personal theory is that his powers are so retroactive that most things adapt to the changes. That ponies don't is likely a sign of their high alignment to order and a subconscious rejection of his chaos.
I already answered the bit about food being able to grow. Also, while there are an abundant of sweets, it appears that he didn't out-and-out change Applejack's crops. In fact, he made giant apples. Thus, fruits and veggies are likely still around. In fact, he'd think it boring if there weren't.
Ponies only get dressed, minus personal choices, at special events and at the extremes of cold. Also, unless the winter is brought in on cotton candy clouds, there's no reason the pegasi shouldn't still be able to handle it.
As for the rest? Between everything else I mentioned, the fact that only the mane 6 and Celestia freaked out over the Chaos, and that they all have their magic? Ponies will do what all creatures do: They'll either adapt to the chaotic lands or leave for other lands.
I'm not downplaying the danger of Discord, I'm saying what he HAS done is tame compared to what he CAN do. That and once you start looking deeply at what he does, you stop getting the impression that
Honestly, the simplist way to think of Discord's chaos is that he drops you in another universe and you have to learn all the new rules. Only difference is, again, he's unlikely to let you die.
Please remember that Discord has apparently been free to roam for eons. Than remember that ponykind apparently didn't encounter him until they came to Equestria. That likely implies one of two things: One, Discord knows how to keep life going on with the changes he makes, otherwise the whole world would be dead. He probably even moved the sun and moon in the past, assuming there was a time before the Sisters. The other thing it could imply is that Discord's "reign of chaos" has always been limited to the lands of equestrias prior to its founding.
Apologies, Madam, but justifying the villains is always a more entertaining angle for me than just siding with the good guys. That it makes more sense to me is an added bonus. And Discord is one of the few I have sincere trouble painting the canon version in any serious dark light.
PS You say they were justified in stoning him? You are right. He is equally justified to exact his revenge. Just as a wolf or bear is justified in killing a human child to feed its young, as are the parents and rangers that go to put it down, and the protestors who are offended by the animal's death and hound the rangers for it. The moral? Justification does not warrant an exemption from retaliation on another party's end.
PSS Its late on my end, so if any of this does come off as snappish, I apologize. My abilitiy to recognize my own tone, in writing and voice, are the first to go. These are just my sincere counters to your points.
7411008
Actually, the long-legged bunnies didn't act fine. They ran. They stampeded. They weren't drawn as having expressions, but rabbits don't stampede when they feel fine. They're also grayed. The buffalo aren't, but the bunnies definitely are.
Of course Discord isn't going to deliberately get rid of the fruits and vegetables, but they won't grow properly if the length of days and the timing of seasons is random. Performing magic to enable some things to grow under moonlight would be a lot easier than getting things to grow under conditions of complete inconsistency. If Discord reigned for longer than a few weeks, the crops would typically have not survived or not end up edible. And the point is, no one can adapt to constant, unrelenting change, not of everything around them. Discord wouldn't have kept things a particular way for any significant length of time, and he had no compunction against randomly mind-controlling sapient beings (or in the case of the bunnies, non-sapient ones) to do what amused him.
The theory that Equestria belonged to Discord before the ponies moved in is interesting, but unless Discord is also helpless against windigos, doesn't bear out -- would Discord have allowed "his" nation to be consumed by snow and ice because a bunch of ponies moved into it and started arguing with each other? Also, the implication is that wherever in Equestria the three tribes first settled, it was a nice, fertile area with weather the pegasi could control and land the earth ponies could farm. Even if Discord considered Equestria his "territory", he didn't have to go torment the ponies -- he wasn't there in the region they were in when they first settled, or the region would have been utterly chaotic and they wouldn't have settled there. One way or another, he showed up when ponies were established and started making their lives hell. He's far too chaotic to respect boundaries anyway; whether it was "his" land or not he would have shown up, because new sapient beings to inflict his chaos on would amuse him. Remember, he also identifies as the Spirit of Disharmony, not just Chaos (it's the definition of the word Discord, and also, he calls himself the Spirit of Disharmony and Chaos in Return of Harmony.) Chaos doesn't require people -- either things are ordered or they are not -- but disharmony requires there be sapient beings around to argue with each other.
So I think it's pretty incontrovertible that Discord was not present when the ponies moved in, and showed up later after they'd established themselves, and whether or not he had previously considered the area his territory is irrelevant because Discord doesn't respect boundaries in the first place. And randomly mind-controlling ponies to think they are dogs, making their houses float when they can't fly (yes, some of them managed to run on air, but what happens if Discord then changes his mind and decides screw it, gravity works today?), and in general destroying their ability to have any control whatsoever over their own lives, is a form of torture, and not something any creature could ever adapt to if it was happening all the time.
The thing is that in real life, when there is rapid change, things die. Humans survive because we use our intellect to adapt to the changes, but intellect works by identifying patterns, and Discord smashes patterns. No intelligence could adapt to Discord. Because he's fairly benign for a chaos spirit, he goes out of his way to make sure his rapid changes don't kill, but he has no problem with causing discomfort and mental anguish. And he didn't do it because ponies were in his territory and he was trying to drive them out. He did it because it was fun, and if ponies had tried to flee him, he'd probably have followed.
The thing about gods of an aspect is that they's not supposed to be unchecked by other gods of different aspects. Discord, if a god, is an aspect god -- a god of chaos, rather than a monotheistic god of everything -- and should have the rest of a pantheon balancing him out. He doesn't, unless you count the Tree of Harmony. Gods are not supposed to run loose all over creation warping it to represent only their own aspect. Having one doing so suggests either a supremely imbalanced universe, or that he doesn't belong there -- and Discord being a god of not obeying rules, odds are, he doesn't belong there. If the ponies use the Tree of Harmony -- who may, in fact, be the god-tier entity who is Discord's specific counter -- to banish his chaos, then the ponies are intermediaries and he doesn't really have the right to seek revenge on them. On the Tree, maybe. They couldn't have done anything to him without it. But you don't have the right to get revenge on someone because they stopped you from burning their house down.
Does he have the right to seek revenge? Well, he started it. If you move into an area and start making everyone's lives unlivable, and as a result they do something to you so you can't do that, you can't really argue that you are the injured party. That being said, it's almost irrelevant because in canon Discord has never sought revenge. He harassed Fluttershy when she was trying to reform him because harassing ponies and disrupting their lives is what he does, not because he wanted revenge on her. We didn't see him do anything to Celestia except taunt her a bit. We didn't see him do anything to Luna. We haven't seen him go to Tartarus to harass Tirek (maybe he can't, and maybe he has off screen, but the point is, Tirek hurt him worse than anyone else ever has and he hasn't apparently sought revenge.) We haven't seen him go take revenge on the tatzlwurms. Discord hassles ponies for fun, not to get revenge on them. So it's kind of irrelevant as to whether he has the right to do something that in canon he's never tried to do.
The conflict with Discord isn't whether he has the right to totally disrupt the ponies' lives. The only way he has the right is if you subscribe to the notion of divine right, that gods get to do whatever they want because they're gods, which personally I strongly disagree with. Your parents don't get to abuse you just because they made you; why should gods have that right? And Discord isn't a creator god. He may have created things, but he didn't create Equestria's world -- he's not consistent enough. We've seen what a world looks like when he's the only influence on it -- his chaos dimension.
No, the conflict is between his right, as a sapient being, to be himself and fulfill his life's purpose, versus the ponies' right to have stability in their existence. And thus far, in canon, it seems that Discord can be satisfied with small and transient acts of chaos that don't disrupt everypony if he's getting other emotional needs met at the same time.
7411603
(sighs) Well, I can see this is going to get us nowhere. Honestly, I like this fic and I don't want to make the author more uncomfortable or anything by continuing to fill his comment section with a discussion that no longer has anything to do with his story, especially after another just ended. So, I'm going to end this with this comment:
I am still unchanged in my opinions just as you are likely unchanged in yours. And as fun as arguments can be, I'd rather use that energy for fics. So, ciao, and have a nice day.
PS Huh....just realized you wrote several of my favorite fimfics. Well, disagreement aside, nice to meet someone that does write Discord well.
Will Discord ever go to The Caste of the Two Sisters? I think it would be awesome if he made it his home and none of the ponys knew.
Funny. I just started growing mushrooms. Talk about magic shrooms, eh? ;)
So he fears His magic being destroyed and being turned to stone and Twilight wanting to give him another chance but then getting shut down by Princess Celestia?
Oddly specific