Ugh, I was hoping Honeyed Words would SUFFER more than just expulsion and boarding school. Seriously, if she comes back (which she probably will) I want her to burn.
Sooooo, Twilight gets a very harsh punishment after being attacked, but Honeyed Words manages to get a slap on the wrist after assualt and attempted torture?
Thats not how to teach people to go to the proper authorities. Rather the opposite.
oddly that's how it works in the world for the rich, a 40 odd year old has dunk drive lots of times and all he ever gets is sent back to his mom and dad, a 40 odd year old
5708858 The real world sure, and as good as Equestria is, it's not going to be perfect. No doubt Honeyed words probably could have wriggled out of this, even when caught, had it been anyone else. But even the cynic in me has a hard time believing that her family is connected well enough that she could get away with attacking the Princess' personal student so blatantly and then getting away with it. Especially having been identified by somepony who is, essentially, Celestia's top spy. So the only thing I can think of is that Celestia is trying to avoid a lengthy scene by removing her from being anywhere near Twilight, but otherwise not pressing the issue. However, doing so, in combination with laying such a comparatively harsh punishment on someone who was assaulted by multiple individuals, very badly subverts the message of "go to the authorities before you take matters into your own hands."
there's something that some people put, Celestia isn't the only ruler, in a lot of fanflics i read Celestia has made a Cancel (i think i spelt cancel wrong) of ponies that Celestia can't get rid of, they help rule Equestria, if Honeyed Words's mom or dad is part of the Cancel or is very good friends of the Cancel then Honeyed Words could get away with it as Celestia would have to stay in good terms with the Cancel, the Cancel is a plot that can work as it works in the real world, in England, the Cancel has so march power that the Queen has no say in anything,
The idea of a council, or congress, or some sort of collective governing body is a somewhat common bit of headcanon, but there has not been any indication in the show there is anything like that. So whether or not there is any such body of government in any given fanwork is something that needs to be stated. Also, in works that try to use that to justify any inability of the Princesses to punish those in power like what may happen in real life, either place such a large deal of restriction on the Princesses that it kind of boggles as to why Celestia bothers keeping her title, (considering the show itself never gives any indication that Celestia is a figurehead, this scenario would generally conflict with canon) or forgets that she is an at least 1000+ year old and very intelligent individual who has a great deal of her own power, and has had plenty of time to learn all the loopholes in the laws, and has been contending with spoiled nobles and politicians for a very long time.
that is true, to be honest, i am with you on this but i don't get why Twi is being punished at all, i think being tortured is punishment a north but no, Twi gets the worst punishment of them all as books and luring i her life, if that happens to Twi then what to someone who got robbed? dose the thief get a month or so and the victim gets life in prison?
5709505 The severity of a punishment vs. it's type comes into play. The punishment itself is justified, though somewhat overharsh, as Celestia is attempting to press upon Twilight the importance of authority, and that Twilight should have enough respect for it (And her) to come to her first when there is trouble. Basically, Twilight goofed and is paying for it, which helps reinforce Celestia's authority to Twilight. However, because Honeyed Words is basically getting away with an actual crime essentially scott free, this severely undermines the lesson, and subverts it. Now all Twilight is getting is that the powers that be punish the victim, and let the perpetrators of wrong doing escape. All this would seem to teach is that next time Twilight needs to make sure she both successfully defends herself and doesn't get caught doing so.
5705974 I though Honey Words was going to be expelled from the most prestigious school in the world. That alone would hurt her reputation and any job opportunities since reports like that has tell why they got expelled. I can see it now, "So you used to be a student at Celestia School for Gifted Unicorns until the student you bullied grew a back bone to escape from doing your own work and attacked said student who happened to be Celestia personal student?" "...." "I am sorry Honeyed Words, but we do not need such a image at our school/buisness. Please leave the premiss."
5710176 It would be a bit of a mark to be sure, but it was stated she already got accepted at a private school back in her parents home city. It felt to me like the implication was that her parents influence was smoothing over that little wrinkle regarding her indiscretions at Celestia's school. And of course, settling for a slightly (or even significantly, to be honest) less prestigious school is still a slap on the wrist when she should be looking at juvenile hall at least. That's assuming she is under 18. I cannot remember if her age was stated beyond her being an older student.
5710460 Then the question is what can Celestia do since she isn't a tyrant and Honey Words is too young to punish with prison time, especially since her only crime is being a bully, not a thief/killer/raspiest. If bullying was a crime, Diamond Tira would be thrown away in Juvie with not chance of parole. I suppose the best she can do is black wall Honey Words from government work, but if her parents are influentially enough to have her transfer, then she is probably have a job lined up for her.
5710767 Well, that's the debatable part. Being a bully is one thing, but she ordered one of her cronies (who I also wonder what happened to. It could be that being caught, including the normally untouchable leader, scared some sense into her) to use a spell which induces pain. Even allowing for the fact that they are not adults, that sounds an awful lot like she ordered torture. At best this is a case of assault. Couple that with Honeyed Word's complete lack of repentance, and it really, really sounds like Honeyed Words is not merely a young bully who needs set straight, but a sociopath who is going to be unable to function in society. Putting her away is not tyrannical, it's the only responsible recourse. Heck, if a crime is sufficiently bad, high schoolers IRL can be tried and punished as adults. I do not know if there are IRL circumstances where that has happened outside of murder or rape, however. So that may not be something that would happen in this case, but it seems like some time in Juvie would not be remiss. i suppose my point is Honeyed Word's has proven to be beyond a simple bully, and it seems unlikely somepony like Celestia would not have developed a system for dealing with this kind of situation, when such systems exist even in our own justice system.
5711423 5710767 I'm actually suprised that Twilights parents or Celestia didn't think to take the whole proceedings to public if Honeyed Words's parents got problematic. No matter how much power and money they have, the moment the nations highest authority puts their daughter publicly to court of justice with undeniable evidence a plenty it will be very hard smooth things over. Honeyed Words isn't just a bully. She ordered magical torture of a classmate and has been shown to have done it before. This is not something that can go unpunished. Letting her go with with just expulsion is a disgrace to Equestrian justice system.
Even if her parents are in positions of power in a council etc. there must be a way to handle problem cases there. If her parents do too much to puclicly protect a criminal of that level they will tarnish their reputation for years possibly generations and therefore lose the trust of the rest of the council members. That should make it possible for Celestia to get them out of the council and replaced with actually competent people.
Sorry for the angry rant. And I know that this is most likely idealistic and naive opinion.
5588222 Still, as much as I want to stay away from them, it seems it won't be possible as long as I keep writing about best pony. C'est la vie. 5600503 Thank you kindly. 5705043 Hopefully upward and onward. 5705156 I thought it to be something he'd likely say... and be true. 5705384 You gotta tailor punishments for the punished. 5705525 Well, I'm not yet finished with her, so she may get more dished out to her later on. 57059745708863 I was afraid this would happen. I know that when others read my stories, they have their own interpretations and perceptions, and they may vary wildly from my own. This is why what information I convey needs to be tightly controlled, or surprises in store for later on may get spoiled. All I can do is ask that you trust I know what I'm doing, and that injustices will not stand in any of my stories. Have I disappointed yet? The same thing happened in I Would Do Anything for Love, when I turned up the action dial. Many didn't like the turn of events there, but I resolved it (hopefully to the satisfaction of those who stayed), and I assure you that Honeyed Words did not get off as lightly as you think. She has not yet felt the full ramifications of her actions, despite the protection her family and family's friends (in answer to your question, yes, there is a parliament that runs most of the country, but no, Celestia isn't just a figurehead, but she does have to follow the rules, even when they work against justice because some are good at manipulating them) can bring to bear on the matter. Her part in this is not yet over, just her part in Twilight's school life. The others involved were punished as well, being suspended and given two months of community service (which will be no mere slap on the wrist, I assure you).
As for Twilight's punishment, she knew that she had done wrong. She knew going in that her actions (and inactions) would have repercussions, but went ahead anyway. She knew that her punishment would be forthcoming by the end of it, and did her best to soften the blow for all involved. The reason her punishment was so severe was because she knew what she did was wrong, but did it anyway. Don't forget that this had been going on for over three years, and she had plenty of opportunities to go to Celestia or the teachers with the matter but sat on it; whether out of fear or not is really immaterial. Honeyed Words was not lurking around every corner, waiting for Twilight to slip up. Finally, don't forget the conversation leading up to the punishment.
Celestia silenced her with a finger on the filly's lips. “Twilight, I'm not going to stop teaching you over something like this, but you realize what must happen now, don't you?”
With a sad nod, Twilight replied, “I'm going to be punished. Go ahead, Princess; I deserve it.”
Twilight, being the honest (and more importantly, earnest) person that she is, felt that she needed and deserved to be punished. She felt like she had not only broken the rules, but had disappointed the three most important ponies in her life (Celestia and her parents), and wanted to be excoriated in order to expunge her guilt in the matter. Celestia, knowing how Twilight's mind works, gave it to her as a catharsis, rather than let the bad feelings build up. Even if they had talked it out until Twilight intellectually knew that there was nothing for which to be punished, emotionally, she would still have those feelings and in light of the events of Lesson Zero, would have built up until it all boiled over into another event like with Honeyed Words, or worse. It had to be harsh, or it wouldn't be a punishment in Twilight's mind and the guilt would remain, regardless. I hope this clears up any misconceptions I may have caused by leaving certain things unsaid in the story. 5710176 That's the beginning of it, yes. 5711935 As Honeyed Words implied, her family is indeed powerful, and by that, I mean politically and financially. What the one doesn't cover, the other will. It's amazing what that will cover up. That being said, Honeyed Words is only experiencing the tip of the iceberg of her punishment. Before it's all said and done, she will likely wish she had taken Celestia up on her offer of leniency in exchange for admitting her wrong-doing.
5718883 Really, Twilight's punishment isn't the core issue anyway, and certainly your explanation of Twilight's psyche all but demanding a severe punishment makes perfect sense. Also, it's not uncommon for parents and guardians to be a bit overharsh in situations where the kid ended up being in very real peril. Celestia is probably pretty rattled after this, to say nothing of Mr. and Mrs. Sparkle. My primary issue is that, Honeyed Words looks like she escaped being truly punished for her crime, and that sets a very bad precedent for one to whom you are trying to impress the value of authority figures.
However, one thing I hadn't thought of before, is Twilight's POV regarding Honeyed. She just got expelled from Celestia's school. Twilight probably can't conceive any punishment short of outright banishment to be more mind wrenchingly horrifying than that.
And hey, if nothing else, I'm keeping you on your toes about story consistency.
5718883 Thank you for clearing that up. And sorry I lost my temper like that. I've just seen some authors do something similar and just forget any sort of consequences. I was just afraid that you would leave it as such disproportionate punishments as they first seemed.
That was very interesting I do agree that the punishments seemed disporportional but I have faith that you will not disappoint I really loved "I will do anything for love." But with what just happened Twilight she will defiantly start to play the violin more and eventually she will see the magic in music. Honestly for her to get more interested in music something like that would have to happen because of how analytical Twilight's mind is Which I have a feeling was the whole purpose of the severity of the punishment Celestia is a mastermind and probably knows more about Twilight's Psyche than Twilight. Also how is Twilight going to fit in Octavia's love life with Vinyl already there unless Vinyl just enjoys the sex with Octavia and that could really put a damper on their relationship in the future. If that is the case then Vinyl is an ass in this story, but I'm sure that is not the case, I hope. I WANT MOAR SOON! If that is alright with you
5709595 I know this was like, a week ago and such, but as weird and odd and cruel as it seems, I actually think the issue of those with power getting away with, figurative but not literal murder while those without power are stepped upon with almost no repercussions is rather the point.
After all, Twilight has a destiny ahead of her, doesn't she? Surely, she won't let abuses like this continue in the future.
And the rest of the country will say to themselves, "Well, if the Princess had to deal with this, and the Princess is saying I should speak up about it, maybe I should."
When it comes to ruling, the difference between benevolence and tyranny is often whether or not the people support what the ruler is trying to do.
Aw, geeze! I know all too well the relentless torment caused by bullies, although I admit, I got lucky and only endured 13 years of verbal abuse. Well, mostly...
I also recognize the futility reporting such bullying often was, as my teachers almost never did anything to punish the guilty parties, as they often didn't see the acts, and I could never prove the acts had occurred.
All in all, the years of names, ostracizing, lies, wrongful slander, and deceit, as well as the occasional threat of bodily harm and actual assault, led to me being incredibly paranoid and completely socially awkward, so much so that when students often categorized as being "popular" actually wanted to be my friends, I suspected they had malicious ulterior motives.
Ah, but you are not my therapist. Otherwise, I'd be paying you.
Seriously, I'd be upset if I was forbidden from playing my video games for even a day, let alone a month, and Twilight Sparkle has nothing better to do than read. Well, except practice her violin, and daydream about a certain gray mare...
I'm just going to put this out there: this chapter is completely terrible...actually I take that back, it starts well enough. That being said, not only does Celestia act morally repugnant in this chapter, but there are also several logical problems and glaring plotholes. And trust me when I say this is coming from someone who has loved a lot of your work. This chapter alone took the story from a 9 down to about a 3. If you want, I can elaborate further, but not right now as Celestia's actions have left me genuinely angry.
5904628 It's comment #20, specifically, a reply to Blue_Paladin42 and BloodNekoFox that contains the relevant info. The relevant post is referenced below. I hope it clears up any misconceptions or bad feelings regarding the chapter. 5718883
that seems a very unfair punishment considering all twilight did was defend herself i do not approve
if such a punishment was give to me id fight it and disobey until they wised up and remembered who the wronged party was in all of this
and before you tell me to read comment 20 i aklready have and my issues stand thats not the kind of punishment you give to someone whos just stood up for themselves against bullies. I dont care what you think about it
Now this is me only harping against the severity of the punishment i still absolutely love the story
I was afraid this would happen. I know that when others read my stories, they have their own interpretations and perceptions, and they may vary wildly from my own. This is why what information I convey needs to be tightly controlled, or surprises in store for later on may get spoiled. All I can do is ask that you trust I know what I'm doing, and that injustices will not stand in any of my stories. Have I disappointed yet? The same thing happened in I Would Do Anything for Love, when I turned up the action dial. Many didn't like the turn of events there, but I resolved it (hopefully to the satisfaction of those who stayed), and I assure you that Honeyed Words did not get off as lightly as you think. She has not yet felt the full ramifications of her actions, despite the protection her family and family's friends (in answer to your question, yes, there is a parliament that runs most of the country, but no, Celestia isn't just a figurehead, but she does have to follow the rules, even when they work against justice because some are good at manipulating them) can bring to bear on the matter. Her part in this is not yet over, just her part in Twilight's school life. The others involved were punished as well, being suspended and given two months of community service (which will be no mere slap on the wrist, I assure you).
The problem with this is that, while seeing a malicious character suffer can be cathartic, that doesn't work nearly as well if other characters need to behave stupidly or incompetently to reach that catharsis. I know you're a good writer in general, so, while I haven't finished this story, I'm assuming that this will be resolved later in a way that at least sort of makes sense, but chapters like this are at least partly self-contained. The juxtaposition of twilight's incredibly severe punishment to Honeyd Words' relatively meaningless punishment is incredibly jarring, especially since the way it's written makes it feel like the conclusion to a story arc; if it were written as a cliffhanger, at least it could be reasonably assumed that pertinent information would be revealed in the next chapter. This issue is especially compounded when considering that twilight's personal guard assigned directly by celestia was shown to have personally witnessed one of Honeyed Words' lackeys use a torture spell, the use of which on another being would obviously have to be a very serious crime. Even a short scene with a guard or lawyer telling celestia something like, "Unfortunately it was impossible to definitively prove that Honeyed Words was anything more than an observer," would have gone a long way to justifying not giving Honeyd Words a much harsher punishment.
Don't forget that this had been going on for over three years, and she had plenty of opportunities to go to Celestia or the teachers with the matter but sat on it; whether out of fear or not is really immaterial. Honeyed Words was not lurking around every corner, waiting for Twilight to slip up.
What you don't seem to be taking into account is that there are many real life examples of victims of abuse or severe bullying being unwilling or afraid to speak up. The psychology behind it is somewhat complicated and I don't fully understand the 'why' of it, but what matters is that being hesitant/afraid/etc. of trying to tell authorities about this kind of thing is a rather common (as well as misplaced guilt, self-loathing, and blaming themselves) is a rather common symptom of being emotionally and psychologically beaten down on a semi-regular to regular basis, and blaming someone for not speaking up is about as justifiable as blaming someone with the flu for throwing up.
Twilight, being the honest (and more importantly, earnest) person that she is, felt that she needed and deserved to be punished. She felt like she had not only broken the rules, but had disappointed the three most important ponies in her life (Celestia and her parents), and wanted to be excoriated in order to expunge her guilt in the matter. Celestia, knowing how Twilight's mind works, gave it to her as a catharsis, rather than let the bad feelings build up. Even if they had talked it out until Twilight intellectually knew that there was nothing for which to be punished, emotionally, she would still have those feelings and in light of the events of Lesson Zero, would have built up until it all boiled over into another event like with Honeyed Words, or worse. It had to be harsh, or it wouldn't be a punishment in Twilight's mind and the guilt would remain, regardless.
Now this is actually a good line of reasoning. It's still not the best decision on celestia' apart because, again, misplaced guilt is a common symptom of this sort of thing, and the best course of action would be to get twilight to a competent therapist, but at least it's believable that an at least semi-reasonable person would follow this kind thought process. However, you don't show that that's why celestia did what she did very well; just showing that twilight is feeling misplaced guilt and that, "I think you know what's going to happen," line aren't enough to show celestia's though process.
For all I know Honeyed Words is a moron. I had two different explanations as to why what she is doing is a very bad idea to herself, one from the position of fan and one that she as a character should've understood. I mean, if you are a noble unicorn would you really want to alienate both the personal student of your liege (or "pet" as she called Twi) and as a result your liege as well? You can pick on weak ones until they fight back, but picking on someone heavily intertwined with the Crown is just not smart. I have seen her having it backfire horribly the moment she decided to plan anything out. And if she continues on to alienate Twilight and Celestia in the future? Well, it seems like those inbred noble motherfuckers have finally reached dementia in youth.
Commence read.
It seems one thing has been resolved.
What shall occur henceforth?
Liked Spike's joke.
That is a brutal punishment. No books, no experiments, no library. What the hey is she supposed to do with her time??
I also find it funny that the bulk of her punishment wouldn't bother the rest of us at all. Haha.
Ugh, I was hoping Honeyed Words would SUFFER more than just expulsion and boarding school.
Seriously, if she comes back (which she probably will) I want her to burn.
Yes, I am a very cruel person
Sooooo, Twilight gets a very harsh punishment after being attacked, but Honeyed Words manages to get a slap on the wrist after assualt and attempted torture?
Thats not how to teach people to go to the proper authorities. Rather the opposite.
5705974
oddly that's how it works in the world for the rich, a 40 odd year old has dunk drive lots of times and all he ever gets is sent back to his mom and dad, a 40 odd year old
why is Twi's punishment so harsh, she was tortured, why punish the victim?
5708858
The real world sure, and as good as Equestria is, it's not going to be perfect. No doubt Honeyed words probably could have wriggled out of this, even when caught, had it been anyone else. But even the cynic in me has a hard time believing that her family is connected well enough that she could get away with attacking the Princess' personal student so blatantly and then getting away with it. Especially having been identified by somepony who is, essentially, Celestia's top spy. So the only thing I can think of is that Celestia is trying to avoid a lengthy scene by removing her from being anywhere near Twilight, but otherwise not pressing the issue. However, doing so, in combination with laying such a comparatively harsh punishment on someone who was assaulted by multiple individuals, very badly subverts the message of "go to the authorities before you take matters into your own hands."
5709086
there's something that some people put, Celestia isn't the only ruler, in a lot of fanflics i read Celestia has made a Cancel (i think i spelt cancel wrong) of ponies that Celestia can't get rid of, they help rule Equestria, if Honeyed Words's mom or dad is part of the Cancel or is very good friends of the Cancel then Honeyed Words could get away with it as Celestia would have to stay in good terms with the Cancel, the Cancel is a plot that can work as it works in the real world, in England, the Cancel has so march power that the Queen has no say in anything,
5709223
Council, is what your looking for.
The idea of a council, or congress, or some sort of collective governing body is a somewhat common bit of headcanon, but there has not been any indication in the show there is anything like that. So whether or not there is any such body of government in any given fanwork is something that needs to be stated.
Also, in works that try to use that to justify any inability of the Princesses to punish those in power like what may happen in real life, either place such a large deal of restriction on the Princesses that it kind of boggles as to why Celestia bothers keeping her title, (considering the show itself never gives any indication that Celestia is a figurehead, this scenario would generally conflict with canon) or forgets that she is an at least 1000+ year old and very intelligent individual who has a great deal of her own power, and has had plenty of time to learn all the loopholes in the laws, and has been contending with spoiled nobles and politicians for a very long time.
5709425
that is true, to be honest, i am with you on this but i don't get why Twi is being punished at all, i think being tortured is punishment a north but no, Twi gets the worst punishment of them all as books and luring i her life, if that happens to Twi then what to someone who got robbed? dose the thief get a month or so and the victim gets life in prison?
5709505
The severity of a punishment vs. it's type comes into play. The punishment itself is justified, though somewhat overharsh, as Celestia is attempting to press upon Twilight the importance of authority, and that Twilight should have enough respect for it (And her) to come to her first when there is trouble. Basically, Twilight goofed and is paying for it, which helps reinforce Celestia's authority to Twilight. However, because Honeyed Words is basically getting away with an actual crime essentially scott free, this severely undermines the lesson, and subverts it. Now all Twilight is getting is that the powers that be punish the victim, and let the perpetrators of wrong doing escape. All this would seem to teach is that next time Twilight needs to make sure she both successfully defends herself and doesn't get caught doing so.
5709595
it's still way to march even if the other one gets punished as who does not learn from what she had to go throu
5705974
I though Honey Words was going to be expelled from the most prestigious school in the world. That alone would hurt her reputation and any job opportunities since reports like that has tell why they got expelled.
I can see it now, "So you used to be a student at Celestia School for Gifted Unicorns until the student you bullied grew a back bone to escape from doing your own work and attacked said student who happened to be Celestia personal student?" "...." "I am sorry Honeyed Words, but we do not need such a image at our school/buisness. Please leave the premiss."
5710176
It would be a bit of a mark to be sure, but it was stated she already got accepted at a private school back in her parents home city. It felt to me like the implication was that her parents influence was smoothing over that little wrinkle regarding her indiscretions at Celestia's school. And of course, settling for a slightly (or even significantly, to be honest) less prestigious school is still a slap on the wrist when she should be looking at juvenile hall at least. That's assuming she is under 18. I cannot remember if her age was stated beyond her being an older student.
5710460
Then the question is what can Celestia do since she isn't a tyrant and Honey Words is too young to punish with prison time, especially since her only crime is being a bully, not a thief/killer/raspiest. If bullying was a crime, Diamond Tira would be thrown away in Juvie with not chance of parole. I suppose the best she can do is black wall Honey Words from government work, but if her parents are influentially enough to have her transfer, then she is probably have a job lined up for her.
5710767
Well, that's the debatable part. Being a bully is one thing, but she ordered one of her cronies (who I also wonder what happened to. It could be that being caught, including the normally untouchable leader, scared some sense into her) to use a spell which induces pain. Even allowing for the fact that they are not adults, that sounds an awful lot like she ordered torture. At best this is a case of assault. Couple that with Honeyed Word's complete lack of repentance, and it really, really sounds like Honeyed Words is not merely a young bully who needs set straight, but a sociopath who is going to be unable to function in society. Putting her away is not tyrannical, it's the only responsible recourse. Heck, if a crime is sufficiently bad, high schoolers IRL can be tried and punished as adults. I do not know if there are IRL circumstances where that has happened outside of murder or rape, however. So that may not be something that would happen in this case, but it seems like some time in Juvie would not be remiss. i suppose my point is Honeyed Word's has proven to be beyond a simple bully, and it seems unlikely somepony like Celestia would not have developed a system for dealing with this kind of situation, when such systems exist even in our own justice system.
5710767
Also, holy CRAP I have said a lot about this.
5711423
5710767
I'm actually suprised that Twilights parents or Celestia didn't think to take the whole proceedings to public if Honeyed Words's parents got problematic. No matter how much power and money they have, the moment the nations highest authority puts their daughter publicly to court of justice with undeniable evidence a plenty it will be very hard smooth things over. Honeyed Words isn't just a bully. She ordered magical torture of a classmate and has been shown to have done it before. This is not something that can go unpunished. Letting her go with with just expulsion is a disgrace to Equestrian justice system.
Even if her parents are in positions of power in a council etc. there must be a way to handle problem cases there. If her parents do too much to puclicly protect a criminal of that level they will tarnish their reputation for years possibly generations and therefore lose the trust of the rest of the council members. That should make it possible for Celestia to get them out of the council and replaced with actually competent people.
Sorry for the angry rant. And I know that this is most likely idealistic and naive opinion.
5588222
Still, as much as I want to stay away from them, it seems it won't be possible as long as I keep writing about best pony. C'est la vie.
5600503
Thank you kindly.
5705043
Hopefully upward and onward.
5705156
I thought it to be something he'd likely say... and be true.
5705384
You gotta tailor punishments for the punished.
5705525
Well, I'm not yet finished with her, so she may get more dished out to her later on.
5705974 5708863
I was afraid this would happen. I know that when others read my stories, they have their own interpretations and perceptions, and they may vary wildly from my own. This is why what information I convey needs to be tightly controlled, or surprises in store for later on may get spoiled. All I can do is ask that you trust I know what I'm doing, and that injustices will not stand in any of my stories. Have I disappointed yet? The same thing happened in I Would Do Anything for Love, when I turned up the action dial. Many didn't like the turn of events there, but I resolved it (hopefully to the satisfaction of those who stayed), and I assure you that Honeyed Words did not get off as lightly as you think. She has not yet felt the full ramifications of her actions, despite the protection her family and family's friends (in answer to your question, yes, there is a parliament that runs most of the country, but no, Celestia isn't just a figurehead, but she does have to follow the rules, even when they work against justice because some are good at manipulating them) can bring to bear on the matter. Her part in this is not yet over, just her part in Twilight's school life. The others involved were punished as well, being suspended and given two months of community service (which will be no mere slap on the wrist, I assure you).
As for Twilight's punishment, she knew that she had done wrong. She knew going in that her actions (and inactions) would have repercussions, but went ahead anyway. She knew that her punishment would be forthcoming by the end of it, and did her best to soften the blow for all involved. The reason her punishment was so severe was because she knew what she did was wrong, but did it anyway. Don't forget that this had been going on for over three years, and she had plenty of opportunities to go to Celestia or the teachers with the matter but sat on it; whether out of fear or not is really immaterial. Honeyed Words was not lurking around every corner, waiting for Twilight to slip up. Finally, don't forget the conversation leading up to the punishment.
Twilight, being the honest (and more importantly, earnest) person that she is, felt that she needed and deserved to be punished. She felt like she had not only broken the rules, but had disappointed the three most important ponies in her life (Celestia and her parents), and wanted to be excoriated in order to expunge her guilt in the matter. Celestia, knowing how Twilight's mind works, gave it to her as a catharsis, rather than let the bad feelings build up. Even if they had talked it out until Twilight intellectually knew that there was nothing for which to be punished, emotionally, she would still have those feelings and in light of the events of Lesson Zero, would have built up until it all boiled over into another event like with Honeyed Words, or worse. It had to be harsh, or it wouldn't be a punishment in Twilight's mind and the guilt would remain, regardless. I hope this clears up any misconceptions I may have caused by leaving certain things unsaid in the story.
5710176
That's the beginning of it, yes.
5711935
As Honeyed Words implied, her family is indeed powerful, and by that, I mean politically and financially. What the one doesn't cover, the other will. It's amazing what that will cover up. That being said, Honeyed Words is only experiencing the tip of the iceberg of her punishment. Before it's all said and done, she will likely wish she had taken Celestia up on her offer of leniency in exchange for admitting her wrong-doing.
5718883
PLEASE TELL ME SHE DIES VIA BRAZEN BULL (don't look it up if you're squeamish)
5718883
Really, Twilight's punishment isn't the core issue anyway, and certainly your explanation of Twilight's psyche all but demanding a severe punishment makes perfect sense. Also, it's not uncommon for parents and guardians to be a bit overharsh in situations where the kid ended up being in very real peril. Celestia is probably pretty rattled after this, to say nothing of Mr. and Mrs. Sparkle. My primary issue is that, Honeyed Words looks like she escaped being truly punished for her crime, and that sets a very bad precedent for one to whom you are trying to impress the value of authority figures.
However, one thing I hadn't thought of before, is Twilight's POV regarding Honeyed. She just got expelled from Celestia's school. Twilight probably can't conceive any punishment short of outright banishment to be more mind wrenchingly horrifying than that.
And hey, if nothing else, I'm keeping you on your toes about story consistency.
5718883
oh ok and thanks X3
5718883 Thank you for clearing that up. And sorry I lost my temper like that. I've just seen some authors do something similar and just forget any sort of consequences. I was just afraid that you would leave it as such disproportionate punishments as they first seemed.
That was very interesting I do agree that the punishments seemed disporportional but I have faith that you will not disappoint I really loved "I will do anything for love." But with what just happened Twilight she will defiantly start to play the violin more and eventually she will see the magic in music. Honestly for her to get more interested in music something like that would have to happen because of how analytical Twilight's mind is Which I have a feeling was the whole purpose of the severity of the punishment Celestia is a mastermind and probably knows more about Twilight's Psyche than Twilight. Also how is Twilight going to fit in Octavia's love life with Vinyl already there unless Vinyl just enjoys the sex with Octavia and that could really put a damper on their relationship in the future. If that is the case then Vinyl is an ass in this story, but I'm sure that is not the case, I hope. I WANT MOAR SOON! If that is alright with you
5709595
I know this was like, a week ago and such, but as weird and odd and cruel as it seems, I actually think the issue of those with power getting away with, figurative but not literal murder while those without power are stepped upon with almost no repercussions is rather the point.
After all, Twilight has a destiny ahead of her, doesn't she? Surely, she won't let abuses like this continue in the future.
And the rest of the country will say to themselves, "Well, if the Princess had to deal with this, and the Princess is saying I should speak up about it, maybe I should."
When it comes to ruling, the difference between benevolence and tyranny is often whether or not the people support what the ruler is trying to do.
Aw, geeze! I know all too well the relentless torment caused by bullies, although I admit, I got lucky and only endured 13 years of verbal abuse. Well, mostly...
I also recognize the futility reporting such bullying often was, as my teachers almost never did anything to punish the guilty parties, as they often didn't see the acts, and I could never prove the acts had occurred.
All in all, the years of names, ostracizing, lies, wrongful slander, and deceit, as well as the occasional threat of bodily harm and actual assault, led to me being incredibly paranoid and completely socially awkward, so much so that when students often categorized as being "popular" actually wanted to be my friends, I suspected they had malicious ulterior motives.
Ah, but you are not my therapist. Otherwise, I'd be paying you.
Seriously, I'd be upset if I was forbidden from playing my video games for even a day, let alone a month, and Twilight Sparkle has nothing better to do than read. Well, except practice her violin, and daydream about a certain gray mare...
I'm just going to put this out there: this chapter is completely terrible...actually I take that back, it starts well enough. That being said, not only does Celestia act morally repugnant in this chapter, but there are also several logical problems and glaring plotholes. And trust me when I say this is coming from someone who has loved a lot of your work. This chapter alone took the story from a 9 down to about a 3. If you want, I can elaborate further, but not right now as Celestia's actions have left me genuinely angry.
5904628
It's comment #20, specifically, a reply to Blue_Paladin42 and BloodNekoFox that contains the relevant info. The relevant post is referenced below. I hope it clears up any misconceptions or bad feelings regarding the chapter.
5718883
[youtube=GhMvKv4GX5U]
that seems a very unfair punishment considering all twilight did was defend herself i do not approve
if such a punishment was give to me id fight it and disobey until they wised up and remembered who the wronged party was in all of this
and before you tell me to read comment 20 i aklready have and my issues stand thats not the kind of punishment you give to someone whos just stood up for themselves against bullies. I dont care what you think about it
Now this is me only harping against the severity of the punishment i still absolutely love the story
Wow Celestia, I thought banishing your sister for a thousand years was bad but this is worse on a few levels.
5718883
The problem with this is that, while seeing a malicious character suffer can be cathartic, that doesn't work nearly as well if other characters need to behave stupidly or incompetently to reach that catharsis. I know you're a good writer in general, so, while I haven't finished this story, I'm assuming that this will be resolved later in a way that at least sort of makes sense, but chapters like this are at least partly self-contained. The juxtaposition of twilight's incredibly severe punishment to Honeyd Words' relatively meaningless punishment is incredibly jarring, especially since the way it's written makes it feel like the conclusion to a story arc; if it were written as a cliffhanger, at least it could be reasonably assumed that pertinent information would be revealed in the next chapter. This issue is especially compounded when considering that twilight's personal guard assigned directly by celestia was shown to have personally witnessed one of Honeyed Words' lackeys use a torture spell, the use of which on another being would obviously have to be a very serious crime. Even a short scene with a guard or lawyer telling celestia something like, "Unfortunately it was impossible to definitively prove that Honeyed Words was anything more than an observer," would have gone a long way to justifying not giving Honeyd Words a much harsher punishment.
What you don't seem to be taking into account is that there are many real life examples of victims of abuse or severe bullying being unwilling or afraid to speak up. The psychology behind it is somewhat complicated and I don't fully understand the 'why' of it, but what matters is that being hesitant/afraid/etc. of trying to tell authorities about this kind of thing is a rather common (as well as misplaced guilt, self-loathing, and blaming themselves) is a rather common symptom of being emotionally and psychologically beaten down on a semi-regular to regular basis, and blaming someone for not speaking up is about as justifiable as blaming someone with the flu for throwing up.
Now this is actually a good line of reasoning. It's still not the best decision on celestia' apart because, again, misplaced guilt is a common symptom of this sort of thing, and the best course of action would be to get twilight to a competent therapist, but at least it's believable that an at least semi-reasonable person would follow this kind thought process. However, you don't show that that's why celestia did what she did very well; just showing that twilight is feeling misplaced guilt and that, "I think you know what's going to happen," line aren't enough to show celestia's though process.
8533800
I hope the later chapters will help with your concerns, since most of these points are addressed.
For all I know Honeyed Words is a moron. I had two different explanations as to why what she is doing is a very bad idea to herself, one from the position of fan and one that she as a character should've understood.
I mean, if you are a noble unicorn would you really want to alienate both the personal student of your liege (or "pet" as she called Twi) and as a result your liege as well? You can pick on weak ones until they fight back, but picking on someone heavily intertwined with the Crown is just not smart. I have seen her having it backfire horribly the moment she decided to plan anything out.
And if she continues on to alienate Twilight and Celestia in the future? Well, it seems like those inbred noble motherfuckers have finally reached dementia in youth.