She's one of my two favorite princesses and the loving and lovable ruler she is has always been a big part of MLP to me.

Of course after Season 9 there's been a lot of talk going around about how she "manipulated Twilight" and "forced her to be the next ruler of Equestria when Twilight didn't want any of it". (There is the issue of Twilight's immortality but there are plenty of headcanons around that)

I did hear some comments on the FiM Will Live On Forever defending her and explaining it, and I have a feeling here will once and for all make me get by this possible side of her.

I do NOT want to ignore Season 9, there were too many good points for me to ignore, one of which I waited 7 years for, the second longest wait after Voldemort. (Dodgson doesn't count as there was no indication there'd be a Jurassic Park 4) So instead I want confirmation Celestia did not have malicious or cruel intentions behind making Twilight the new ruler of Equestria. I'm already partway there but I want this finalized so I can continue to enjoy pony like I did before.

I don't think Celestia really manipulated Twilight. Twilight has always looked up to Celestia and wanted to be just like her. It was probably inevitable Twilight would aspire to become ruler in a similar vein to Celestia. The problem is the justification behind it, and like many other arcs in the show we never get to see it focused on. We don't get to see Twilight grow much other than finally stop with the overdone joke of "Twilighting".

Lauren Faust always intended for Twilight to succeed Celestia as ruler of Equestria.

I do believe that the idea had been shelved and later writers of the show just dusted it off when they decided they wanted to wrap up the show and needed a good finale. Which helps explains why Season 9 was a mixed result to many. If the writers had stuck from start to finish with Faust's finale in mind throughout the entire series, things would have hopefully worked out smoother.

And the plot of Twilight gaining rulership would look natural.

Though I think the fuss is mostly from people who don't like how Twilight becoming ruler doesn't match with their headcanon. Celestia tricking Twilight is just one of their attempts to grasp at straws.

I've honestly never understood people thinking Twilight's been manipulated or strung along against her will. Sure she has her insecurities and doubts but she's never given the genuine impression she wants less. Celestia didn't take her on as a personal student so she could be a farm town librarian. Twilight knows that, but much of the fandom doesn't seem to. One of her first conflicts as a princess was wanting more to do.
Twilight's brilliant... maybe too brilliant. If you give her exact instructions she's going to worry at them; they're too easy she must be doing something wrong. Give her all the information and she'll obsess over it and spin in circles picking at it, trying to perfect it from every angle at once.
But if you just point her in the right direction... let that brilliance and her nature and motivations all work together with her instincts... let her think her way through instead of overthink... Well Celestia knows that that pony is the best thing that's ever happened to Equestria. She's not perfect, any more than Celestia was before her. But she didn't need to be manipulated. She wanted this all along. This was always the part she wanted to play. Celestia, who knew her better than anyone, always knew that.

7302057

So instead I want confirmation Celestia did not have malicious or cruel intentions behind making Twilight the new ruler of Equestria.

Twilight was tossed the keys to an entire kingdom to lord over as she sees fit. How could that possibly be cruel or malicious to Twilight? Everyone else, sure, maybe. But Twilight herself? If she doesn't like the authority to reshape a nation in her own image, she can just abdicate.

Seriously, what is this nonsense? People with nefarious intentions are always trying to take something away from their victim, not give them incredible wealth and power.

I suppose I could use the same things I saw way back when I founded this group: the wise and flawed mentor that has a lot of regrets does something that the fandom doesn't like, of course she is an evil manipulative tyant.

I guess one thing too in Celestia's favor is she did say Twilight would only become ruler of Equestria when she feels she is ready, right after the whole Sombra thing. I remember coz it's my favorite episode and I rewatched it many times.

Thank you everyone for your responses.

The idea was planned from the beginning -- but I personally didn't really like it.

Twilight is a ridiculously smart pony, and though we simply see 'book horse book horse', because that the pony we've always loved-- twilight's incredible potential is always there. I doubt Celestia has any malicious intend, on the contrary. I feel like the story was just bumpy, which made her position as queen look really out of place. If the audience had been directed from the start towards the fact she would end up in the position she was, I feel like people wouldn't complain as much.

I simply disliked the fact they just took Celestia's design and slapped twilight over it.

What I'm puzzled about is that, while Celestia may well have groomed Twilight to be her successor to the Equestrian throne, Luna has been out of action for a millennium and, as such, surely she'd still be in position as a reigning Princess after Celestia would retire. At the very least she'd be able to guide Twilight through the earlier portion of the latter's position in the oligarchy.

If Twilight didn't want to take over, she would have refused. Twilight isn't a pushover, she never was, and acting like she has no agency to make her own decisions is taking her AND Celestia's characters way off kilter from how they have been established.

7302057
I, admit to be not a fan of the "Retirement" thing in general. It just feels like an over-the-top extreme being implemented cause of the show ending.

And sure, there's the argument about it being apart of Faust's original vision, but thing is, I felt like she would've handled that better then it had went through as-is.

There's also some people that complained on why Luna was beyond okay with it and even went for it and argued that she didn't get to enjoyed that much of a stay in rule, but I'm not an aggressive Luna fan, just bringing that in here.

7302057
Like I said before: I'm never trusting Tia ever in Season 9. I mean, I was fine with the way she was in the first eight seasons. The final season..... not so much.

The way I would write Tia in Season 9? The same thing for of her in Seasons 1-8 and not some cocky dumbass scheme of retiring and just leaving Twilight all alone to rule.

Twilight actually enjoys being a Princess because it lets her help others. I don't go and ask for more work at my job if I don't enjoy my job.

7302417
In other words? :P (Not sure if it implies if you wanted her to be fine as the princess of friendship and not ruler? ^^')

7302057
As I've said in this group before: It was too Marry Sueish to have Celestia and Luna step down, so that Twilight would rule Equestria alone. It was one thing to make Twilight a Princess (at the end of Season 3), but another for her to be the Princess.

7302428
I'd say she would be ready in a century or two, but not as it was. She was too young, like putting med student in charge of a hospital.

7302434
I should point out though that if "The Last Problem" is any indication, it did work out. Probably a few hiccups here and there, but it worked.

I also highly doubt that Celestia wouldn't have picked her if she didn't think she could have handled it. Which she obviously did.

7302174 Blame the animators for being lazy.

7302057

You could always just ignore Season 9. If you're really worried about canon or whatever, then it's already canon that there are tons of other Celestias in tons of other dimensions some of which likely didn't manipulate Twilight.

I don't like the plot decision to make Twilight into the new ruler, but to turn that into Celestia hate is and always has been substituting one's own headcanon for the actual events of the show.

7302526
Delta does have a point.

7302530
Same here. I still hate it no mater what. >:/

7302057
I'm honestly okay with the whole retirement thing. I stress "okay" because there's a world of difference between that and outright liking it, I think. I know I wouldn't have done it if given the opportunity. I didn't like it at all at first, but I think after a while I realized that it was more because I felt it was too different from the status quo rather than any sort of story-based criticisms, and I've since made my peace with it. Besides, on a more positive note, it opens up more opportunities for my two favorite sisters. :)

As for how it happened...well, I've seen the arguments, and yeah, I will concede that it could have been handled a lot better. I'm okay with it at the end of the day, but I still get where people are coming from.

I do not, however, think that Celestia was being some manipulative jerkwad in "forcing" it on Twilight. I think 7302241 is absolutely right in that Twilight could have refused, and if she'd said "no", then Celestia would have respected that.

I believe she picked Twilight because, for all of her short-comings and failings, she found something within her that she knew could be a great benefit to generations onward. Twilight's already proved that over the course of the show. And if the Equestria we see at the end of "The Last Problem" is any indication, Celestia's hunch was right. And hey, if Twilight does run into some snags here and there, then she'll always have her friends around to help her. They may not live in the same town anymore, but that's not going to keep them apart. And even if she does outlive them, well...they'll never really be gone so long as they're remembered (I, for one, am not a fan of those fanfics where they all kick the bucket and Twilight goes into a crippling depression. It'd be sad for her for sure, but I highly doubt it would be to that degree).

So, uh, there. That's my bit on the whole thing.

7302526
I could, and I definitely would have if the premier hadn't done the one thing I asked them to. But Chrysalis, after 7 years, has a canon final fate and when I thought she'd never get one I tried to come up with several for her but they never felt "real" enough due to me making them up. (Headcanons for Twilight's immortality is different since it has to go somewhere and it's up to us to decide that) Plus The Beginning of the End and Frenemies are two (or three) of my favorite episodes.

There are a few episodes I do ignore but I really don't want to ignore Season 9. I'm kinda undecided on The Last Problem though.

Btw everyone. I heard sources claim that originally Celestia and Luna weren't going to retire.

Instead, Celestia,Luna,and Discord were going to give up their very selves and became one with the universe now that Twilight and her friends had brought perfect harmony to Equestria.

Is there any truth to this?

7303152
I've heard about that. It was in some of the leaks, IIRC.

Honestly, I think I'd like that idea even less than the retirement.

No more Best Moon Horse. :(

7303152
Like, into the ether? The thought did cross my mind. I wasn't aware that DHX were planning to kill off non-villain (or reformed) characters not already dead by the first episode. I do of course like to think Discord would choose a mortal life to be with Fluttershy (like Arwen with Aragorn) so he won't outlive her by eternity.

I also remember rumors that the main villain of the movie was going to be a male alicorn named Cosmos. Though the part about Liev Schreiber voicing the main villain was true, they just made it a humanoid horned monkey called the Storm King.

Back to Celestia, I also like to think she wouldn't be opposed to the idea of Twilight eventually abdicating the throne to someone else worthy of it if they came along, and so forth. And even if Twilight has to rule for eternity, there are other ways around it as well, the Mane 6's connection could be too strong for even death to break. Or maybe with a little help from Discord.

I never understood why people were so up in arms about Celestia stepping down as ruler. They seem to forget that she's had that title for thousands of years. It's not like she could rule forever. I for one wish her a nice, long retirement. She deserves it.

Also the manchild wonder Jimmy Hook managed to seep in and spout his usual nonsense. What a surprise...

7304219
Can you like just..... leave me alone already? I have a couple users that even agree on my opinions, Season 9's arc for example.